Snorlax + Weezing

Lately i've been using snorlax & weezing a lot.

I've noticed that they would be perfect for BL for a blissey/skarmory replacement.

the thing is I don't know what tier they are in.

What tier do you think snorlax/weezing should be in.

Discuss.
 
From the Rules and Taboos thread.

DP's Tier System
We don't have a metagame yet, guys, so how can we tell which Pokémon belong where? More importantly, what good does it do us to speculate to such ends regardless?

Anyways, the stickied tiers thread says Weezing is OU, but Snorlax is not mentioned. Though I can't imagine it being UU.

Otherwise, whats the point of this thread?
 
it really just depends how OUs there are going to be. both have a large chance of being OU. besides, why do we discuss tiers anyways before they come out?

marriland, a non-smogon site with many similar principles, lists both as OU.
 
Weezing is a fucking god, no one is prepared for it, everyone's busy with skarm. Havent used snorlax as a wall, used as belly drummer in netbattle a while ago though.
 
On Smogon's tier list, Weezing is OU, so using them both in BL play isn't an option unless it gets moved down for some reason.

Snorlax isn't listed, but I can't see it getting anything less than BL.
 
Well, BL does not have it's own metagame and UU should almost NEVER allow BL unless it was a special tournament rule, so pretty much you can only expect them to be used in OU, whether or not they're labeled 'borderline'
 
Well, BL does not have it's own metagame

Which is why I believe the tier system used in ADV is completely useless for DP where the lines of usabilty are a lot finer. If there was ever a time to start from scratch, this was it.

As for Weezing, it stands down Heracross pretty well which means a lot. On Snorlax's side of the deal, its a sad state of affairs, the fact he can't even special sponge anymore just really goes to show how many broken mechanics DP introduced.
 
I still don't understand the point of having a "BL" list if they are never allowed in UU, should be OU if only used in OU+
 
On Snorlax's side of the deal, its a sad state of affairs, the fact he can't even special sponge anymore just really goes to show how many broken mechanics DP introduced.

i disagree. i've been using snorlax on my team for quite some time now with surprisingly good success. reSTalker variants along with CurseLax last much longer than people say it does. Snorlax and Weezing are both completely capable in OU.
 
Which is why I believe the tier system used in ADV is completely useless for DP where the lines of usabilty are a lot finer. If there was ever a time to start from scratch, this was it.

As for Weezing, it stands down Heracross pretty well which means a lot. On Snorlax's side of the deal, its a sad state of affairs, the fact he can't even special sponge anymore just really goes to show how many broken mechanics DP introduced.

So D/P is broken because Snorlax isn't as good as he was last gen?

Weezing is awsome though IMO. I always have a hard time taking one down, seeings as he can actually do damage with a actually good special movepool. Snorlax isn't bad, just not as good as it used to be.
 
As noted already, tier discussion is discouraged right now - it's one of the main things not to post about. And honestly, there's likely going to have to be a very long winded post describing the tier system and it's history before any discussion happens at all. It never ceases to amaze me how incredibly dumbfounded people seem to become when presented with a relatively simple system.

On the other hand, I'm sure that if you wanted to start a thread about this combination of pokemon and their co-op strategies, with a reasonable amount of information provided by yourself, it would fly. Of course, that's just a suggestion, not a guarantee.
 
Well, I don't know about Snorlax+Weezing, but i really love Steelix+Weezing. They resist every physical attack and since I hate Claydol, I use them over Skarm and Claydol.

I like Weezing more as a physical wall than Skarm just because of WoW+Pain Split. And Steelix is a better Rock resist than Claydol and will actually be able to do something this gen with Stealth Rock and Gyro Ball.
 
Well, I don't know about Snorlax+Weezing, but i really love Steelix+Weezing. They resist every physical attack and since I hate Claydol, I use them over Skarm and Claydol.

I like Weezing more as a physical wall than Skarm just because of WoW+Pain Split. And Steelix is a better Rock resist than Claydol and will actually be able to do something this gen with Stealth Rock and Gyro Ball.

Usually these combos are Special Wall + Physical wall. If you have two physical walls, thats only asking for trouble. (For example, Surf will hurt Steelix + Weezing a LOT)
 
You can try Snorlax+Weezing if you want, nothing is stopping anyone. For a brief reminder: the only reason, by the very definition of how tiers are built, that Lax is not OU is because not many people are using it, since OU is based on usage. Nobody will have been wrong about Lax being not OU if a lot of people suddenly start using it — that's not how tiers work. We thought the same thing would be true of Skarmory what with the attack split, and Gyarados/Garchomp/Infernape etc, but now most of the more observant and experienced of our players will agree that if Skarmory wasn't OU in the late spring and early summer, it sure is now.

All tier talk does, though, come with the disclaimer that even "good" people can't really tell what's OU because nobody is "good" enough to be watching literally every battle and logging usage. I reiterate, OU is based on the quantitative usage, not futilely qualitative assumptions of what pokemon are good and therefore probably used a lot. A comprehensive logging system is still not available to us, and likely won't be until competitor is out, and it's really simple that this is why i banned tier talk until the community has had something like that in place for months.
 
So D/P is broken because Snorlax isn't as good as he was last gen?

Yes and no. Its not so much about Snorlax as it is about Choice Specs and Draco Meteor reducing the number of OU viable Pokemon considerably.

On Snorlax, its very much still usable, it still special walls well, but really needs to watch out for Leaf Storm/Draco Meteor/Focus Blast/Aura Sphere. If I want to use Snorlax I carry something that can deal with dragons, because I know Snorlax can't be relied on to. That said DP wasn't nearly as kind to many other Pokes as it was to Snorlax, which is to say almost not at all. My only gripe really is with how the ADV-->DP changes seem to have just made things more stale by marginalising certain play styles.

I'm torn on Shed Shell though, as much as having your Skarm trapped sucked, it lead to some really cool plays like switching into Rhydon and FPing the switch.

Maybe its just because its still early days and battle simulation is still slim, but the OU pool for DP seems to be much slimmer than I ever remember ADV being, and accordingly I'm having much less fun now than I was then.
 
Usually these combos are Special Wall + Physical wall. If you have two physical walls, thats only asking for trouble. (For example, Surf will hurt Steelix + Weezing a LOT)

Well, Skarm and Claydol are used as a defensive combo and I don't see Glaydol with its Ice, Water, Grass and Ghost weaknesses as a special wall.
And anyway, that kind of combo is made for stall teams. And well, I still think that they are viable in D/P.
 
In Advance, Skarmory and Claydol were used together in defensive teams, but that was with Blissey as backup. Skarmory and Claydol were primarily used together because neither were as good physical walls as Blissey was a special wall, due to the latter's infinite HP (Claydol covered the Fighting and Rock resistances that Skarmory lacked). Skarmory and Claydol were a physically defensive combination, not a walling in general combination.
 
Frankly I think that tiers are more or less a joke right now. Pokemon are banned because they were too good last generation, there's no clear line between BL and UU, and Butterfree is seen more than Snorlax on Shoddy Battle.

EDIT: I completely agree with TSPhoenix's statement: "Which is why I believe the tier system used in ADV is completely useless for DP where the lines of usabilty are a lot finer. If there was ever a time to start from scratch, this was it." The game is completely different now; why are we using the same tier system that we used circa seven years ago?
 
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