Shaymin the ignored grass-hedgehog:

The_Rider

I have been looking around the analyses pages when I stumbled upon Shaymin. Okay Shaymin is an underused base 600 who I think iirc belongs in the BL tier. Well I decided to research the damage calcs a SpecsMin does and I was surprised at how hard it hits. Here are it's calcs and this isn't even modest or +SAtk

SHAYMIN:
Nature: Timid
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 / 0 / 0 / 252 / 0/ 252
Item: Choice Specs
Moveset:
-Seed Flare
-HP(Fire) base 70
-Rest
-Psychic

Damage Calcs(no weather, all max hp and defenses plus positive natures):

Cresselia:
Seed Flare: Damage: 33.78% - 39.86%
Hidden Power: Damage: 13.29% - 15.77%
Psychic: Damage: 8.56% - 10.14%

Blissey:
Seed Flare: Damage: 20.45% - 24.09%
Hidden Power: Damage: 8.12% - 9.52%
Psychic: Damage: 10.36% - 12.18%

Walrein:
Seed Flare: Damage: 90.57% - 106.60%
Hidden Power: Damage: 17.92% - 20.99%
Psychic: Damage: 22.88% - 26.89%

Gengar:
Seed Flare: Damage: 33.02% - 38.89%
Hidden Power: Damage: 26.23% - 30.86%
Psychic: Damage: 66.67% - 78.40%

Heracross:
Seed Flare: Damage: 25.55% - 29.95%
Hidden Power: Damage: 40.38% - 47.25%
Psychic: Damage: 51.37% - 60.44%

Infernape:
Seed Flare: Damage: 31.18% - 36.52%
Hidden Power: Damage: 12.36% - 14.33%
Psychic: Damage: 62.64% - 73.60%

Garchomp:
Seed Flare: Damage: 47.38% - 55.71%
Hidden Power: Damage: 9.29% - 10.95%
Psychic: Damage: 23.81% - 28.10%

Salamence:
Seed Flare: Damage: 13.20% - 15.48%
Hidden Power: Damage: 10.41% - 12.18%
Psychic: Damage: 26.40% - 30.96%

Dragonite:
Seed Flare: Damage: 11.66% - 13.73%
Hidden Power: Damage: 9.07% - 10.88%
Psychic: Damage: 23.32% - 27.46%

Metagross:
Seed Flare: Damage: 26.37% - 31.04%
Hidden Power: Damage: 41.76% - 48.90%
Psychic: Damage: 6.59% - 7.69%




Dusknoir:
Seed Flare: Damage: 49.66% - 58.50%
Hidden Power: Damage: 19.73% - 23.13%
Psychic: Damage: 25.17% - 29.59%

Weavile:
Seed Flare: Damage: 57.85% - 68.02%
Hidden Power: Damage: 45.64% - 53.78%
Psychic: Damage: 0% - 0%

Bronzong:
Seed Flare: Damage: 23.96% - 28.11%
Hidden Power: Damage: 37.87% - 44.67%
Psychic: Damage: 5.92% - 7.10%

Spiritomb:
Seed Flare: Damage: 55.92% - 65.79%
Hidden Power: Damage: 22.04% - 25.99%
Psychic: Damage: 0% - 0%

Togekiss:
Seed Flare: Damage: 21.93% - 25.67%
Hidden Power: Damage: 17.38% - 20.32%
Psychic: Damage: 21.93% - 25.94%



Breloom:
Seed Flare: Damage: 37.65% - 44.44%
Hidden Power: Damage: 59.26% - 69.75%
Psychic: Damage: 75.62% - 89.20%

Jirachi:
Seed Flare: Damage: 22.28% - 26.24%
Hidden Power: Damage: 35.15% - 41.34%
Psychic: Damage: 5.69% - 6.68%

Gyarados:
Seed Flare: Damage: 45.69% - 53.55%
Hidden Power: Damage: 8.88% - 10.66%
Psychic: Damage: 22.84% - 26.90%

Cradily:
Seed Flare: Damage: 45.48% - 53.72%
Hidden Power: Damage: 18.09% - 21.28%
Psychic: Damage: 22.87% - 27.13%

Claydol:
Seed Flare: Damage: 98.15% - 115.43%
Hidden Power: Damage: 19.44% - 22.84%
Psychic: Damage: 12.35% - 14.51%




Magnezone:
Seed Flare: Damage: 27.91% - 32.85%
Hidden Power: Damage: 44.19% - 51.74%
Psychic: Damage: 13.95% - 16.57%

Tangrowth:
Seed Flare: Damage: 33.17% - 39.11%
Hidden Power: Damage: 52.23% - 61.39%
Psychic: Damage: 33.42% - 39.36%

Starmie:
Seed Flare: Damage: 122.84% - 144.75%
Hidden Power: Damage: 12.04% - 14.20%
Psychic: Damage: 15.43% - 18.21%

Flygon:
Seed Flare: Damage: 56.87% - 66.76%
Hidden Power: Damage: 11.26% - 13.19%
Psychic: Damage: 28.57% - 33.52%

Umbreon:
Seed Flare: Damage: 38.07% - 44.92%
Hidden Power: Damage: 14.97% - 17.77%
Psychic: Damage: 0% - 0%




Porygon2:
Seed Flare: Damage: 49.73% - 58.29%
Hidden Power: Damage: 19.52% - 22.99%
Psychic: Damage: 24.87% - 29.41%

Porygon-Z:
Seed Flare: Damage: 57.49% - 67.65%
Hidden Power: Damage: 22.73% - 26.74%
Psychic: Damage: 28.88% - 33.96%

Snorlax:
Seed Flare: Damage: 32.25% - 37.79%
Hidden Power: Damage: 6.30% - 7.44%
Psychic: Damage: 16.22% - 19.08%

Zapdos:
Seed Flare: Damage: 25.00% - 29.43%
Hidden Power: Damage: 19.79% - 23.18%
Psychic: Damage: 25.26% - 29.69%

Forretress:
Seed Flare: Damage: 17.23% - 20.34%
Hidden Power: Damage: 108.47% - 127.68%
Psychic: Damage: 17.23% - 20.34%




Gliscor:
Seed Flare: Damage: 60.73% - 71.47%
Hidden Power: Damage: 24.01% - 28.25%
Psychic: Damage: 30.51% - 35.88%

Miltank:
Seed Flare: Damage: 56.85% - 66.75%
Hidden Power: Damage: 22.34% - 26.40%
Psychic: Damage: 28.68% - 33.50%

Suicune:
Seed Flare: Damage: 80.94% - 95.30%
Hidden Power: Damage: 7.92% - 9.41%
Psychic: Damage: 20.30% - 24.01%

Slaking:
Seed Flare: Damage: 46.23% - 54.56%
Hidden Power: Damage: 18.25% - 21.43%
Psychic: Damage: 23.21% - 27.38%

Celebi:
Seed Flare: Damage: 22.28% - 26.24%
Hidden Power: Damage: 35.15% - 41.34%
Psychic: Damage: 11.14% - 13.12%




Ludicolo:
Seed Flare: Damage: 49.45% - 57.97%
Hidden Power: Damage: 19.51% - 22.80%
Psychic: Damage: 24.73% - 29.12%

Empoleon:
Seed Flare: Damage: 47.85% - 56.18%
Hidden Power: Damage: 18.82% - 22.31%
Psychic: Damage: 12.10% - 14.25%

Hariyama:
Seed Flare: Damage: 49.59% - 58.33%
Hidden Power: Damage: 9.76% - 11.38%
Psychic: Damage: 49.80% - 58.74%

Regice:
Seed Flare: Damage: 29.95% - 35.16%
Hidden Power: Damage: 23.90% - 28.02%
Psychic: Damage: 15.11% - 17.86%

Registeel:
Seed Flare: Damage: 18.68% - 21.98%
Hidden Power: Damage: 29.40% - 34.62%
Psychic: Damage: 9.34% - 10.99%




Regirock:
Seed Flare: Damage: 98.63% - 115.93%
Hidden Power: Damage: 9.62% - 11.54%
Psychic: Damage: 24.73% - 29.12%

Mesprit:
Seed Flare: Damage: 47.80% - 56.32%
Hidden Power: Damage: 18.96% - 22.25%
Psychic: Damage: 12.09% - 14.29%

Uxie:
Seed Flare: Damage: 42.37% - 50.00%
Hidden Power: Damage: 16.67% - 19.77%
Psychic: Damage: 10.73% - 12.71%

Azelf:
Seed Flare: Damage: 63.28% - 74.29%
Hidden Power: Damage: 24.86% - 29.38%
Psychic: Damage: 15.82% - 18.64%

Heatran:
Seed Flare: Damage: 11.14% - 13.21%
Hidden Power: Damage: 0% - 0%
Psychic: Damage: 11.14% - 13.21%




Regigigas:
Seed Flare: Damage: 39.86% - 46.70%
Hidden Power: Damage: 15.80% - 18.40%
Psychic: Damage: 20.05% - 23.58%

Tentacruel:
Seed Flare: Damage: 43.68% - 51.37%
Hidden Power: Damage: 8.52% - 10.16%
Psychic: Damage: 43.96% - 51.65%

Abomasnow:
Seed Flare: Damage: 26.04% - 30.47%
Hidden Power: Damage: 81.77% - 96.35%
Psychic: Damage: 26.04% - 30.73%

Froslass:
Seed Flare: Damage: 65.12% - 76.45%
Hidden Power: Damage: 51.16% - 60.17%
Psychic: Damage: 32.85% - 38.37%

Weezing:
Seed Flare: Damage: 33.53% - 39.52%
Hidden Power: Damage: 26.35% - 31.14%
Psychic: Damage: 67.37% - 79.34%




Skarmory:
Seed Flare: Damage: 16.77% - 19.76%
Hidden Power: Damage: 52.69% - 61.98%
Psychic: Damage: 16.77% - 19.76%

Donphan:
Seed Flare: Damage: 127.08% - 149.48%
Hidden Power: Damage: 25.00% - 29.43%
Psychic: Damage: 32.03% - 37.50%

Yanmega:
Seed Flare: Damage: 16.76% - 19.68%
Hidden Power: Damage: 52.66% - 61.97%
Psychic: Damage: 33.78% - 39.63%

Houndoom:
Seed Flare: Damage: 29.10% - 34.46%
Hidden Power: Damage: 0% - 0%
Psychic: Damage: 0% - 0%

Raichu:
Seed Flare: Damage: 63.89% - 75.00%
Hidden Power: Damage: 12.65% - 14.81%
Psychic: Damage: 32.10% - 37.65%




Entei:
Seed Flare: Damage: 24.65% - 29.03%
Hidden Power: Damage: 9.68% - 11.52%
Psychic: Damage: 24.88% - 29.26%

Raikou:
Seed Flare: Damage: 46.88% - 54.95%
Hidden Power: Damage: 18.49% - 21.61%
Psychic: Damage: 23.44% - 27.60%

Articuno:
Seed Flare: Damage: 20.05% - 23.70%
Hidden Power: Damage: 31.77% - 37.50%
Psychic: Damage: 20.31% - 23.96%

Moltres:
Seed Flare: Damage: 13.02% - 15.36%
Hidden Power: Damage: 10.16% - 11.98%
Psychic: Damage: 26.04% - 30.73%

Clefable:
Seed Flare: Damage: 48.73% - 57.36%
Hidden Power: Damage: 19.29% - 22.59%
Psychic: Damage: 24.62% - 28.93%




Electivire:
Seed Flare: Damage: 56.21% - 66.10%
Hidden Power: Damage: 22.32% - 25.99%
Psychic: Damage: 28.25% - 33.33%

Mamoswine:
Seed Flare: Damage: 115.09% - 135.38%
Hidden Power: Damage: 45.28% - 53.30%
Psychic: Damage: 29.01% - 33.96%

Magmortar:
Seed Flare: Damage: 26.27% - 30.79%
Hidden Power: Damage: 10.45% - 12.15%
Psychic: Damage: 26.27% - 31.07%

Gallade:
Seed Flare: Damage: 47.94% - 56.47%
Hidden Power: Damage: 19.12% - 22.35%
Psychic: Damage: 24.12% - 28.53%

Gardevoir:
Seed Flare: Damage: 47.94% - 56.47%
Hidden Power: Damage: 19.12% - 22.35%
Psychic: Damage: 24.12% - 28.53%




Medicham:
Seed Flare: Damage: 66.36% - 78.09%
Hidden Power: Damage: 26.23% - 30.86%
Psychic: Damage: 33.33% - 39.20%

Dugtrio:
Seed Flare: Damage: 163.50% - 192.34%
Hidden Power: Damage: 32.12% - 37.96%
Psychic: Damage: 41.24% - 48.18%

Typhlosion:
Seed Flare: Damage: 27.78% - 32.50%
Hidden Power: Damage: 10.83% - 12.78%
Psychic: Damage: 27.78% - 32.78%

Charizard:
Seed Flare: Damage: 13.89% - 16.39%
Hidden Power: Damage: 10.83% - 12.78%
Psychic: Damage: 27.78% - 32.78%

Manectric:
Seed Flare: Damage: 70.93% - 83.43%
Hidden Power: Damage: 27.91% - 32.85%
Psychic: Damage: 35.76% - 41.86%




Swellow:
Seed Flare: Damage: 41.36% - 48.77%
Hidden Power: Damage: 32.41% - 38.27%
Psychic: Damage: 41.67% - 49.07%

Staraptor:
Seed Flare: Damage: 35.83% - 42.25%
Hidden Power: Damage: 28.07% - 33.16%
Psychic: Damage: 36.10% - 42.51%

Roserade:
Seed Flare: Damage: 13.27% - 15.74%
Hidden Power: Damage: 42.28% - 50.00%
Psychic: Damage: 54.01% - 63.58%

Sceptile:
Seed Flare: Damage: 29.07% - 34.01%
Hidden Power: Damage: 45.64% - 53.78%
Psychic: Damage: 29.07% - 34.30%

Ambipom:
Seed Flare: Damage: 65.25% - 76.55%
Hidden Power: Damage: 25.71% - 30.23%
Psychic: Damage: 32.77% - 38.42%




Tauros:
Seed Flare: Damage: 63.28% - 74.29%
Hidden Power: Damage: 24.86% - 29.38%
Psychic: Damage: 31.92% - 37.29%



Now I know they don't really look that awesome now but that's because these numbers are the absolute lowest damage you can do to those respective pokemon (excluding the berries). Most 60% here becomes a OHKO if your opponent has 0 HP and SDef ivs. From this list you'll see that only Blissey can switch in on you without being seriously dented. Okay so discuss Shaymin's potential here.
 
WOW! you just went everywere for those calcs!

Seedflare is basically, the nly reason to use shaymin, the move is increadibly overpowered and is plain devistateing.

..but doesn't the aynalisis already list a set like this?
 
I would really like to know who runs Infernape with max HP and max SpDef with a +SpDef nature.

TBH, I think Shaymin is best used as a SubSeeder. A Sceptile with less Speed but (much) better defenses.
 
FYI, Shaymin is in our BL tier, mainly because of that one thing called Seed Flare IMO.

Unfortunately, that moveset is the full extent of Shaymin's attacking capabilities, for its movepool is very limited.

Quite frankly, Shaymin's overall movepool is limited IMO. It can SubSeed and use Aromatherapy, Psych Up and Grasswhistle; that's about all the rest that's worth considering. It does have access to Swords Dance, though. lol
 
I'm glad that you included calcs, but 99% of the pokemon you listed aren't going to be running +sp def natures with 252 hp/sp def, so most of them aren't very useful.

Anyways, it's an alright set, but I'd be more inclined to use Life Orb as the residual damage can be rested off and Shaymin won't be destroyed by Pursuit like Celebi, so you're free to switch out more easily.

Actually, Celebi could probably do this set as well, with STAB on Psychic and Leaf Storm instead of Seed Flare (the one disadvantage, of course, is it's weakness to pursuit). Then again, Celebi gets Recover as well, so...eh.
 
Or run Choice spec and come in to use rest when needed then switch. Either way Shaymin is very appealing to me. The only problem is that it hasn't come out yet so there are only Semi-legit ones. =\
 
forbidden said:
Or run Choice spec and come in to use rest when needed then switch. Either way Shaymin is very appealing to me. The only problem is that it hasn't come out yet so there are only Semi-legit ones. =\
Click to expand...
true, but Ph3N!X caught ab awsome semi legit shaymin. He wanted to do a giveaway with it, but he hasn't been here for a while :x
 
Semi-legit = Illegal.

Theres no such thing as 'semi-legit' its one or the other and Shaymin is underused because...its illegal to even have one?
 
Yeah Shaymin is awesome:toast: really cool as a subseeder with graswhistle and spike support, i still need to test out the choice specs version...


Thank you for calcs
 
TheMantyke said:
WOW! you just went everywere for those calcs!

Seedflare is basically, the nly reason to use shaymin, the move is increadibly overpowered and is plain devistateing.

..but doesn't the aynalisis already list a set like this?
Click to expand...

This isn't a new set I'm merely showing to everyone how much potential Shaymin has. And thanks it did take me the whole night to research those calcs.

CardsOfTheHeart said:
FYI, Shaymin is in our BL tier, mainly because of that one thing called Seed Flare IMO.

Unfortunately, that moveset is the full extent of Shaymin's attacking capabilities, for its movepool is very limited.

Quite frankly, Shaymin's overall movepool is limited IMO. It can SubSeed and use Aromatherapy, Psych Up and Grasswhistle; that's about all the rest that's worth considering. It does have access to Swords Dance, though. lol
Click to expand...

I already know that Shaymin is in the BL tier(it's on the top most part of my post when I said it). And yes I agree with you this is one of the best sets available for him.

Fishin said:
I'm glad that you included calcs, but 99% of the pokemon you listed aren't going to be running +sp def natures with 252 hp/sp def, so most of them aren't very useful.

Anyways, it's an alright set, but I'd be more inclined to use Life Orb as the residual damage can be rested off and Shaymin won't be destroyed by Pursuit like Celebi, so you're free to switch out more easily.

Actually, Celebi could probably do this set as well, with STAB on Psychic and Leaf Storm instead of Seed Flare (the one disadvantage, of course, is it's weakness to pursuit). Then again, Celebi gets Recover as well, so...eh.
Click to expand...

It was supposed to be made like that, it merely shows you the lowest possible damage Shaymin can do to a particular pokemon(yet they still look great). I checked some of them but when people use their normal spread it hurts a lot more. On Bold Bliss standard SFlare should do 30-40% damage(2HKO with SDef boost, or close to it atleast). Things like Electivire who get 60% damage are OHKO by seedflare when they use their normal EV spreads.


Regarding the semi-legit stuff I'm actually still interested in it. I mean come one how many event pokemon do we get that are actually workable/ SRable(only the TRU manaphy iirc). And actually I did all this research because I was planning to SR for a really good one.
 
thing is though shaymin is essentially setup fodder for salamence, seed flare does a ton to whatever doesnt resist it but grass isn't like draco meteor resisted only by 1 type yada yada
 
Swimrunner said:
thing is though shaymin is essentially setup fodder for salamence, seed flare does a ton to whatever doesnt resist it but grass isn't like draco meteor resisted only by 1 type yada yada
Click to expand...

HP Ice could remedy the situation with Sala and Nite but then HP Fire offers better type coverage. So yeah Sala might just be the weakness of Shaymin. Chomp and Flygon fear Seed Flare as it does roughly 80%-90% damage to them if they don't carry any defensive EVs(which most don't) so they can't be really considered as counters. Anyways DDSala usage has gone down(in m personal experience) it's like everyone runs the specs set with brick Break. Well any suggestions in getting past Sala and other Dragon-Flying pokemon?
 
Uh, it hits as hard as any Base 100 Special Attacker. So?

Seriously, why are you so impressed by it? There are many, MANY better special attackers, and it doesn't even 2HKO things apparently. Use Sceptile or something.
 
Seed Flare is pretty much the only reason to use Shaymin, since Seed Flare is really a great move.

The move itself, however, has limited uses due to the fact that it only has 8 PP.
 
hmmm
why did you put porygon-z and porygon2 on there
I mean, any person with common sense would pick Porygon-Z

Also, can you explain why you did rest>synthesis?
EDIT:Oh yea, nature cure

It is possible that once Shaymin gets released, it could become used more
 
ManofSteele said:
hmmm
why did you put porygon-z and porygon2 on there
I mean, any person with common sense would pick Porygon-Z

Also, can you explain why you did rest>synthesis?
EDIT:Oh yea, nature cure

It is possible that once Shaymin gets released, it could become used more
Click to expand...

What the heck are you talking about? Z and 2 are completely different pokes. One's a special sweeper and one's a tank. Saying someone would pick one over the other is like saying someone would pick an Azelf for their team over a cresselia. It'd be like WTF they're used completely differently. The two are just not comparable.

Anyway, on the subject of Shaymen-- I actually like the little bugger. These damage calcs and description have peaked my interest even more. Thanks a lot rider. Considering Flare's special defense dropping power along with the difference evs and nature make, I could see this doing awesome damage to a lot of pokes.
 
Not many options but makes a nice SubSeeder with the defenses and I have found using it as a cleric works well.
 
Chris is me said:
Uh, it hits as hard as any Base 100 Special Attacker. So?

Seriously, why are you so impressed by it? There are many, MANY better special attackers, and it doesn't even 2HKO things apparently. Use Sceptile or something.
Click to expand...

I never said it was the best but it's pretty darn good for something seeing so little use. And the difference it has between a SpecialSceptile is that it's Seed Flare grows stronger over time unlike Leaf Storm which grows weaker. Besides that NCure is also a handy trait. It does have some glaring weakness usually to those with Decent SDef+HP and actually resist it's attacks but besides that it can't dent almost all things that takes it's attacks for normal damage. Oh and please read almost all of this becomes 2-3HKO's the only reason they aren't shown like that now is because this is the absolutely lowest damage you can do to that particular pokemon(with your EV spread). Cradily and Regirock and the other rocks if there are any have the SS boost factored in. Doing 53% to a boosted Cradily(who some say is the premier wall in SS conditions) is really nice.

No Prob Chou :D
 
It was supposed to be made like that, it merely shows you the lowest possible damage Shaymin can do to a particular pokemon(yet they still look great). I checked some of them but when people use their normal spread it hurts a lot more. On Bold Bliss standard SFlare should do 30-40% damage(2HKO with SDef boost, or close to it atleast). Things like Electivire who get 60% damage are OHKO by seedflare when they use their normal EV spreads.
Click to expand...

It helps a little to know what sort of damage Shaymin will be doing when they're running max sp def/hp, but it'd be a lot more useful to know how much damage it'll do against the standard speads. It might be helpful to know if psychic is a 1HKO on Infernape, but nobody runs any sp def or hp on Infernape, so why not do damage calculations with that spread?
 
I have been doing calcs with the normal spread(the no HP, no defenses) and I believe a rough estimate is to check the percent damage listed here then add about 30%. For example Seed Flare on Nape does about 35% on bulky nape and does about 65% on normal Nape's we see running around.
 
I used Shaymin on my very first D/P team, and that happens to be my best team.

SpecsShay is really really powerful with Seed Flare, because Seed Flare doesn't just have a -1 sp def drop, but it's now been established as a -2 special defense drop!

Even with the huge amount of resistances that Seed Flare has against it, NOTHING will enjoy switching into it because they may have to switch out right away after.

Seed Flare works amazingly well with Stealth Rock/Spikes support, because they're either going to stay in and take a Seed Flare, and then either get a sharp special defense drop and most likely get 2HKOed from it, or if they're someone like Blissey who wants to stay alive after a special defense drop, they'll switch out to rack up some residual damage.

When you have a special attacker than can bust through Blissey's big egg and cause a big puddle of yolk to appear, then you know it's damn good.

SpecsShay is also one of the few Choice users that can reliably restore its health because of Natural Cure Resting. Of course, this works best if you don't have rocks on your side that are threatening your other team members, but yeah.

Honestly, this thing is the perfect Donphan or Swampert counter. It destroys them both with Seed Flare, and it takes very little from any of their attacks, even Donphan's Ice Shard or Swampert's Avalanche.

I love this little hippie hedgehog. Even with a movepool the size of a backyard baby pool, it has JUST enough that it can search out and destroy.
 
I guess shaymin is ok, it has the same stats as mew ( an uber) and no double weakness. 328 max all around the board. IIRC thats base 100. it shouldnt be in BL, if it is... but BL is just unpopular OU. its probly BL because of dragons. resisting grass... HP ice everywhere, and plenty of flyers (because of EQ resist probably) dragons make grass types sad. so does herra...

HOWEVER. vileplume has the same special attack as it. specs petal dance would be decent too. OH WAIT HOLY COW NVM seed flare does 120. tangrowth and roserade have better spattack than it too. specs-storm hurts. too bad other grasses dont have 100 speed AND 100 of both defenses.

I would use it, ... if i played in OU. Its so cute. : 3

EDIT: wow i didnt realize 404 max HP was 100 base. shaymin must be tough to take out. but then... apart from movepool, what does mew have over it? not ability, for sure.
 
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