Media itt: movie/film discussion - Beware Spoilers

vonFiedler

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I didn't respond to tcr's post because I didn't want to just post my top 10 but filtered to be more pretentious. But suddenly it doesn't seem likely that I'd be accused of that

The Not in English Film: The Lives of Others (2006)
The Comedy of Excellence: Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure (1989)
The One DLE Hates: West Side Story (1961)
The 3D Animation: Up (2009)
The Animation: Princess Mononoke (1997)
The Jock that Just Kicked Sand in Your Face: The Matrix (1999)
Somebody Toucha My Spaghet!: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (1966)
The Horror, A Genre that Exists: The Thing (1982)
The Genre that 9/10 People Will Enjoy More than Citizen Kane: Logan (2017)
Shawshank Redemption: The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
The 10 Movies That Will Actually be on Your List Unless Your Head is Seriously Far Up Your Own Ass: Star Wars 4-6 & 8, Indiana Jones 1 & 3, Back to the Future 1 & 2, Home Alone 1 & 2

edit: I was genuinely going to include The Room, but I forgot. So here it is.
 
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GatoDelFuego

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I saw that Game Night was getting good reviews so I went out to see it. I was horrified when the trailers came on and there was a barrage of SEX comedies (Cock Blockers, a movie where john cena puts beer up his ass to stop his daughter from having sex; Life of the Party, a movie where mellissa mccarthy [I think?] goes to college and has sex with a 20 year old boy; and Book Club, a premise so awful I cannot type it out here [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_Club_(film)]). The audience ate that up and I was worried I'd made a horrible mistake. I joked to my fiancee that I'd give the movie 3 strikes of "vagina jokes" before I was walking out.

Instead I was pleasantly surprsied to be completely different from the above movies and definitely exceeded my expectations. The jokes that I already knew from the trailer were still funny, and there was a lot in the first 20 minutes that was actually enhanced by seeing the trailer. You know that somebody is going to break in and kidnap them so there's a bunch of dramatic irony moments where people "jumpscare" into the frame quickly. It's sort of like Scream. The cast has amazing comedy timing together; even though they fit into established "comedy tropes" they still are original character ideas and the jokes will defintely hold up 5 years later.

I also have to mention the ending credits, which consists of a montage of various scenes recreated with minifigures and clay models. They had basically zero reason to create all these physical models and shoot the scene, but they did it anyway because they CARED. There was also this great shot technique with a drone and a sharpening filter to the film that made it look like you were zooming into a miniature model on a board game in establishing shots (sort of like the fake houses you'd see on a model train set but as the shot progressed were real locations doctored through the filter). It was impressive and it was a real new idea.

I think movies like this are a great representation of the originality in the film industry. I can't wait for 2020's Game Night 2, which will prove yet again that hollywood is out of ideas.
 
The Genre that 9/10 People Will Enjoy More than Citizen Kane: Logan (2017)
I mean, tcr asked for the ten movies everyone should see at least once. If you wanna get more into film, then I think Citizen Kane - a film that lays the groundworks for so many films that came after it, and was revolutionary at the time - is far more important than Logan.

If you wanna call out my recommendations as pretentious (which you obv have done, in a very thinly-veiled way), then be my guest, but there's a reason why the films I suggested are so acclaimed.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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lol come on dude read his post he name dropped recent tarantino stuff as his impetus he's clearly not looking to watch old shit hes looking for the best movies of the past 30ish years
 

TheValkyries

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“Only the old masters are the ones really worth observing” has the progression of art extremely backwards.

Aside from that he was asking for pop culture Recs.

Things off the top of my head tcr would be Silence of the Lambs or Hunt for Red October. I have a friend a lot like you who majored in film and still has missed vast swaths of pop culture so I’ve been trying to think of movies that are in the collective consciousness to make him watch.
 

vonFiedler

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I think there are a lot of old, obscure, and artsy movies worth watching (City Lights is a favorite), but movies are the most shallow art form and you're wanking yourself off if you think "high-brow" films or films exclusively from one period of time are the best. Ditto on the progression of art being backwards if we think so.

The reason stuff like Sight and Sound hasn't changed over 60 years is cyclical. You're supposed to like that list, so you vote to maintain the list. You think this makes you more credible. Most people don't. I think it lacks credibility when someone doesn't have a universally acknowledged bad movie in their top 10 (mine is Speed Racer). I want honesty. S&S movies weren't as old as they are now when the list started, and even back then it was prominently accused of elitist snobbery. (If it seems like I'm just ragging on S&S again so soon, that's because over half of eagle's list is from the S&S list).
 

Martin

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tcr

If u wanna watch some good French films alongside ur helping of pop culture stuff I’d recommend The Man on the Train and Amélie. My favorite English language movies from the past 10-or-so years are The Grand Budapest Hotel, The Death of Stalin, Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, Arrival, Ender’s Game and Star Trek (2009) so you should watch those. Also watch Strangers on a Train and a load of the Ealing Comedies (mainly The Ladykillers and Kind Hearts and Coronets), not because of them being old or significant (although they most definitely are very old), but rather just because they’re great movies that sit at (or reasonably close to) entry level. Anyway, I echo Von’s reccs and also think that it’s important to see his “the 10 you will actually see” list (but also watch Rogue One in the SW bunch, as unlike episode 8 it’s an actually good film beyond a basic ‘dumb/kinda non-sensical fun’ level) just because of them being rlly major aspects of pop culture. Also watch all of Tarentino’s films if u liked The Hateful 8.

Wait until your repertoir of movies is bigger and then make sure to watch Seven Samurai as well as the stuff on Eagle4’s list at some point when you feel you’re ready to; as much as I agree with Valk’s sentiment, I still think it’s important to watch old films which have influenced the industry heavily or which otherwise have a lot of historical significance just because of the way they help you understand the way the medium has evolved—it’s just that watching them too early negatively impacts your ability to enjoy/understand the movies themselves while also crippling your ability to judge other movies on a primal level (y’know, one of the big things that separates a good critic from a bad one).
 

vonFiedler

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I lucked out and was able to see Mary and the Witch's Flower when I was going to see another movie. It's a decent imitation of a Ghibli movie, but the soundtrack is straight fire.
 
“Only the old masters are the ones really worth observing” has the progression of art extremely backwards.
Agreed, but you're arguing against something I didn't say. I said that Citizen Kane is a more important film than Logan, and if you're going for a film that 'everyone should see at least once', than Citizen Kane clearly wins out. And anyway, I'd argue that most modern films owe so much in their filmmaking to predecessors that it's worth checking the older stuff out - not that they're 'the ones really worth observing', but they're 'the ones worth observing to get a better understanding of the foundations of modern cinema'.



I think there are a lot of old, obscure, and artsy movies worth watching (City Lights is a favorite), but movies are the most shallow art form and you're wanking yourself off if you think "high-brow" films or films exclusively from one period of time are the best.
Bit of an assumption to state that movies are the most shallow art form? Can you elaborate?

The reason stuff like Sight and Sound hasn't changed over 60 years is cyclical. You're supposed to like that list, so you vote to maintain the list. You think this makes you more credible. Most people don't. I think it lacks credibility when someone doesn't have a universally acknowledged bad movie in their top 10 (mine is Speed Racer). I want honesty. S&S movies weren't as old as they are now when the list started, and even back then it was prominently accused of elitist snobbery. (If it seems like I'm just ragging on S&S again so soon, that's because over half of eagle's list is from the S&S list).
Eh, don't think so - it's not that they're films you're supposed to like, it's that the films on that list are liked by almost everyone - if not always loved. Sure, there are better films imo that aren't on the poll, but they're not liked as much by consensus. So the Sight and Sound is a populist list of very good films with huge historical impact. I would put Mishima, Underground, Ratcatcher, Long Day Closes etc on that list but that's exactly the point - not everyone loves them, so they're not on the list.

(And hey I think Only God Forgives is one of the best movies of this decade - I'm not just contributing to the circlejerk).

But if we're talking about pop culture recs from the last 30 years, then trc :

Reservoir Dogs (1991) - Tarantino's best imo
Mad Max: Fury Road
Inside Out
Mulholland Drive
Boyhood
Audition
Inherent Vice
The Prestige
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou
Amelie
 

vonFiedler

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Bit of an assumption to state that movies are the most shallow art form? Can you elaborate?
I've said it many times before but as a very short form media, movies are very hard pressed to be as "thought-provoking" as you want them to be. They don't have the time to build convincing characters, expand on themes, or just to breath. And the attempts, whether old or new, are often excruciatingly boring as a result. It's totally asinine to be a high-minded prick about high brow movies. What you want to be doing is reading literature. Literature will expand your mind in ways that make Citizen Kane look like Twilight. And that's a potential shared (but not always reached due to the pop culture world we live in) by television, comic books, and even the occasional indie game.

Obviously, I haven't watched thousands of movies because I don't like them. I just enjoy different forms of art for excelling in different ways, and movies excel as at being fun diversions. Movie makers knew this in the beginning when musicals were by far the most popular genre. And they knew this when musicals fell out of favor and were replaced by blockbusters. And contrary to your assertion, most people don't make movies that owe in large part to what is on the S&S list, they make movies like Jaws and Star Wars. Just a fact. Sometimes a rare gem of a movie is entertaining AND intelligent, but if it's not entertaining, I don't care if it's intelligent. I can get intelligent less watered down elsewhere.

it's that the films on that list are liked by almost everyone - if not always loved. Sure, there are better films imo that aren't on the poll, but they're not liked as much by consensus. So the Sight and Sound is a populist list of very good films with huge historical impact.
Who is "everyone"? A small handful of critics and directors? Hell, only a few directors who voted in the last S&S list even matter. S&S isn't a populist list. IMDB is a populist list. It's THE populist list. In order to even qualify for the IMDB list, a film needs 25 times more votes than S&S gathered, and individual movies gather upwards of a thousand times more votes. Not saying that being more populist is inherently better, indeed, IMDB's problems stem from how populist it is. But you can't say that S&S is truly representative of what most people think when even in a single thread on the internet you seem kind of alone in that opinion. Hell, I tried showing my friends Persona, a movie I love, and they all hated it. And I think that's a normal reaction tbh.

Furthermore, only about 10% of the votes that went into the S&S poll mattered. How many people thought Vertigo was a top 10 film? Not 50% Not even 20%. So does everyone think Vertigo is the best movie ever? Hardly. S&S isn't a good system to determine that, even if it has the right voters. If I were a film critic and asked to participate, my vote wouldn't matter. I might as well be voting Blue in Idaho. If you aren't voting for movies that previously landed on the list, your vote probably didn't matter. Only the order could reasonably be affected. And I have to believe that people who had the opportunity to vote would know this. Still, it's only a theory that a small handful of voters cast their votes the way they did just to put on airs. But I'd be hard-pressed to be convinced otherwise by someone who puts on airs consistently.

I'll be a little constructive as well. I wouldn't want it said that I was a guy who doesn't care about the past, which I think is often too true of people these days. So here's a list of pre-70s movies that I'd recommend to anyone. Italics for real good shit

Silent
The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
M
City Lights

The General

Black and White
Of Mice and Men
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
It's a Wonderful Life
All About Eve
Harvey
Roman Holiday
On the Waterfront
The Night of the Hunter
The Killing
Paths of Glory
Witness for the Prosecution
Touch of Evil
Some Like It Hot
Psycho
Judgement at Nuremburg
To Kill a Mockingbird
Whatever Happened to Baby Jane
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
Dr. Strangelove

Color
Rope
Shane
Rear Window
Dial M for Murder
Rebel Without a Cause
The Bridge on the River Kwai
Spartacus
The Magnificent Seven
The Great Escape
A Fistful of Dollars
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
In the Heat of the Night

Guess Who's Coming to Dinner
The Graduate
Romeo and Juliet
2001: A Space Odyssey

Musical
Swing Time
Singin' in the Rain
West Side Story
My Fair Lady

Foreign Language
Grand Illusion
Ikiru
Tokyo Story
Diabolique
The Seventh Seal
The Nights of Cabiria
Wild Strawberries
Yojimbo
Persona
Andrei Rublev (ok, I don't recommend this one to everyone... but if you like Stalker, you might enjoy this)
The Battle of Algiers
 

tcr

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ty all for the suggestions ill be checking a lot of these out in the next few weeks

also ive never seen pulp fiction or being john malkovich and ill probably start with those two
 

vonFiedler

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Painting is of course the SHALLOWEST of art forms because it's just like a single still image no characters no drama
I don't disagree I mean a painting probably shouldn't be trying to tell a dramatic story with complex characters at the expense of what makes it good as an artform. Boring high-brow films often do that. I think only Tarkovsky really gets away with that, and watching him can still be a struggle.
 
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vonFiedler

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It's the last day of February, and that means that for me, 2017 in movies is over. All that's left is to be disappointed by the oscars, but in terms of what I watch, I'm moving on.

So it's time to remember the best and worst films of the year.

10 Worst Films of 2017

10. Lost City of Z
I went into this film not knowing that it was based on "history". I just wanted this guy to find a lost city, but there's no lost city and not a lot of searching even. And yet you can't defend it by saying it's historically accurate, because the real explorer was a complete hack fraud and an incorrigible racist even relative to his time. But that wouldn't sell, so a real monster has been rebranded as a social justice warrior. This just seems wrong on every level. Also, Charlie Hunnam is one of THE worst actors I have ever seen.

9. Vengeance: A Love Story
I was going to list Nic Cage movies as honorable mentions, but you'll see why I didn't later. A Love Story is one of the worst kinds of Nic Cage movies: the few he actually makes worse. Based on a provocative book and boasting a good actress and even a good child actress, this story actually has a little potential. But you can tell the director/producers just didn't care. Water down the narrative, miscast Nic Cage, throw it straight to digital.

8. Colombus
Want to learn about old buildings? John Cho puts in a horribly placid performance, and the great female lead doesn't save it from being boring.

7. Lady MacBeth
"It's like if Hitchcock made Wuthering Heights" said the trailers. Hitchcock did make Wuthering Heights. It's called Jamaica Inn. We were off to a bad start before the film even started playing. Dull period piece with unlikable characters that ends suddenly after the 2nd act.

6. A Cure for Wellness
Probably this year's textbook bad movie. I don't even dislike Dane DeHaan's performance. A lot of people write him as trying to act way cooler than he actually is, but when I think about this as an attribute of his characters, it becomes more interesting. Still, this film is a mess. It as at best occasionally uncomfortable. The problem is that it climaxes over and over and over again. MC confronts villains. Loses. Repeat until he wins. Not clear at all why they never just kill him.

5. Inconceivable
Another Nic Cage movie that doesn't feature a lot of Cage, nor is he very Cagey when on screen. The title isn't just dumb word garbage, because this is a pregnancy thriller! It seems almost competent at first, but eventually the weird dialogue and gossipy old mother character starts reminding me of another film... "I just got the results of the test back. I definitely have boat accident." A big twist makes you wonder why MC is acting like a crazy bitch when we're supposed to sympathize with her, then ANOTHER reveals that she's just a crazy bitch. Oh okay.

4. Death Note
I really appreciate movies that are awful within 5 minutes. It really streamlines things. This doesn't resemble Death Note, but it also only barely resembles a film. Nothing works here. It's bad.

3. Ferdinand
Already ranted about this oscar nominated film. I would expect this level of quality from third world Pixar knockoff.

2. Arsenal
Nic Cage plays a small part as the villain. At least he has a high Cage quotient per time spent on screen. On the subject of a character's underage daughter, "Don't worry, I won't touch her. She's too young for my taste. Wait a minute... she's JUST right." God bless you Nic Cage. If only you were in more of this film where other things happened probably.

1. Prevenge
I don't know if this is supposed to be a film for feminists to indulge in sick fantasies about? It's just fucked up. Not good kind of fucked up. Just like, ugh, really.

20 Best Films of 2017 (narrowing down was hard as fuck)

20. Brigsby Bear
Lonely Island associated production with a very interesting concept, a lot of fun, and a performance by Mark Hamill to rival his other big role this year.

19. mother!
Man, I don't know what the fuck this film was all about in the end. I doubt anyone really does. And if it was all just the director getting high as fuck, well, I'm glad I got to see the result.

18. Mom and Dad
Oh shit! I had heard this film was good, but I had no idea it would be the best Nic Cage film I've seen yet. Imagine Crank, but instead of action, it's horror; and instead of Jason Statham, it's Nic Cage; and instead of having to keep your heart pumping, it's needing to kill your children. Fantastic cinematography throughout. Rarely shows it's violence, but in the classic masters sort of way, not in the PG-13 horror way (this is a hard R film). Nic Cage doesn't even freak out until halfway through the film, and at that point, you're already enthralled.

17. Colossal
The movie where Anne Hathaway controls a giant monster in Korea. A rollercoster of emotions. Very compelling when you discover what the real monster is.

16. The Disaster Artist
It might not be as good as the book, but what is? This was a very hilarious film celebrating another favorite classic.

Honorable Mention #1 (only came out in America in 2017, but a 2016 film)
I, Daniel Blake
The first thing I've seen from this director, but now I'm curious to see more. An immaculately likable character drives a great fight-the-power film.

Honorable Mention #2
In This Corner of the World
Slice of period piece but then shit gets real when you learn where and when the characters are... better than Grave of the Fireflies by a good margin imo.

15. Brawl in Cell Block 99
Vince Vaughn, intimidating beast may be one of the surprises of the year. This is a fight movie, but without much fighting. It's a slow burn until it builds up to the eponymous fight, and boy is it worth the wait.

14. Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
McDonagh's best film so far. Thematically complex and never a dull moment.

13. It
Please keep making things about kids fighting evil in the 80s. As a bonus, no one has to try to like the old miniseries anymore.

12. The Lego Batman Movie
Does for DC what the original Lego Movie did more animation. Now let's hope we see actual improvement.

11. Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2
It's GotG with the same characters but a better villain and an actual plot. How did anyone think this wasn't a superior sequel again?

10. The Shape of Water
Another Del Toro fairy tale that almost reaches the heights of Pan's Labyrinth. Also Sally Hawkins is best girl and she needs to win that oscar.

9. Wind River
A Taylor Sheridan movie with even more Taylor Sheridan than ever before. Really should have gotten more hype.

8. Spider-Man Homecoming
Marvel is on fire and they're really going to fuck up my top 250 if they keep going at this pace. Making a better Spider-Man movie than 2 is one thing, but making the Vulture a top tier villain? With all this hype about Killmonger, he's great and all, but let's not forget about Birdman.

7. The Big Sick
Easily the biggest oscar snub.

6. Get Out
The nominee most deserving of best picture.

5. Their Finest
Really sad that this film is basically unknown. It got good reviews, but I think few people saw it. This just has everything you want in a film. It's a fictional film that actually convinced me that it was a biopic.

4. Baby Driver
Bell... bottoms...

3. Thor: Ragnarok
Petition for Taika Waititi to make all Marvel movies. He is one of the best people ever.

2. The Last Jedi
Suck it MRA. Women were always in positions of power in Star Wars, a series where the only prominent male leader was wizard Hitler. At least be consistent with your bullshit. All my hardcore conservative friends in real world Idaho loved this film. It is possibly the best Star Wars film. But I think even have to spend a lot of time and rewatches to be sure. Either way, I'm waaaay more excited for Rian Johnson trilogy than I am for Episode 9 (and fuck whoever thought it was a good idea to give a trilogy to the Game of Thrones showrunners).

1. Logan
The new Citizen Kane.
 

Martin

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I got back from watching Darkest Hour a while ago. I have... mixed thoughts on it.

The good:
  • Gary Oldman is the perfect casting for Churchill: He seemed to understand the role to its absolute core, and he really brought Churchill to life in a convincing way.
  • It tries a lot with its visuals, and its got good directional ideas: There were loads of interesting ways of presenting scenes throughout, and it was fun to spot the different ways that they were able to bring out the most meaning from each shot.
  • It did a great job of illustrating just how pivotal Churchill was to the outcome of the war: While there wasn't really much I learned about him that I didn't already know, it does say a lot about just why he was the type of person the country needed to run it at a time of crisis and does a lot of foreshadowing and hinting towards how the course of history would've been totally different without him.
  • It succeeds at telling a complete story: I know this is a very simple thing, but it's something that plenty of Oscar-bait biopics kinda flip-flop around, so it's nice see one that actually does succeed at it.
The bad:
  • It's dull as shit: As much as Churchill is a plenty interesting character with a very interesting story to be told about him, the film simply failed to make the most of this potential for a genuinely great film just due to fundamental failures with regards to the way it was laid out.
  • It assumes prior reading for a lot of things to make sense: I think the assumption that a person knows about what kind of person he was before the war ends up backfiring a bit, as we as viewers are only briefly introduced into a tiny handful of things from his past that caused all the doubt from his colleagues within the space of 1 sentence at the very start of the film, which leaves it feeling muddled and means that the film doesn't really succeed properly as a biopic.
  • Visual presentation was muddled and inconsistent: As much as it tries a lot and is able to add a lot of meaning to a lot of scenes through good storyboarding, it backfires more often than not and just results in the film feeling like more of a scrapbook of "cool directorial ideas" rather than it does a coherent visual presentation.
  • Every character other than Churchill: The entire remainder of this film's cast was unconvincingly acted–especially Neville Chamberlain and Viscount Halifax.
  • Other presentational issues: There were a lot of issues with the way certain aspects (from the society at the time to the way information was presented) were presented
    • Presentation of information and other character building felt half-assed and poorly managed; it created the illusion of filler when there wasn't any by introducing a lot of things in an extremely vague manner and then re-presenting them all in greater detail in a single scene later on, serving to disrupt the flow and highlighting the film's poor scripting.
    • You didn't have the entire base of operations smoking as they worked, showing a that severe lack of effort has been put into matching the behaviour of the people to the types of behaviour that you would see in wider society at the time it was set.
    • A black man played a major role in the scene on the underground without recieving any kind of discrimination what-so-ever from those around him, which both serves little purpose other than exclusivity pandering and once again shows a lack of effort being put into accurately recreating the way that society at the time would've functioned, granted this is an extremely minor complaint (and a substantially less egregious failure wrt period recreation) when compared to the "people not smoking at work" thing.
  • It's very blatant Oscar bait: I don't need to explain this; it comes across very strongly when watching it and it's annoying.
Overall: 6/10; not a bad watch, but I wouldn't reccomend you go out of your way to watch it.
 

Hulavuta

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All these people talking about old movies never mention Metropolis. I really liked that one.
Lol, funnily enough brightobject just asked me about this last week. Personally, I feel like Metropolis is one of those films that was highly influential, but most people would rather watch what it influenced rather than watch it. I still appreciate it for its inspiration for things like Blade Runner and Star Wars (and subsequently all the things those two inspired) but it is pretty hard to get into unless you're already into older films. It's 2 and a half hours, silent with intertitles, and the plot is really dragged out. I also feel that due to the fact it was so influential, and from a time in history that is so heavily studied, the plot becomes retroactively predictable and, as an unfortunate consequence, tedious.

I liked some posts earlier defending Citizen Kane as a movie people should watch, not only because it is actually a good film in my opinion, but also because it is actually quite easy to get into even if your tastes are more modern. It's got sound and talking, it's just under 2 hours with sensible pacing, and it's narrative-driven with psychologically-motivated characters (aka not a confusing art film), meaning that even if you're a more "passive" viewer and not someone who is observant of cinematography/effects/techniques/score and other elements of form, it's still an interesting story to follow. As opposed to something like Man With A Movie Camera which has no plot and is just a straight montage. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that.

I'm not saying anyone has to like it, but I think it's something people should see just because of its importance in the discourse (though I think most people will like it, even if they don't buy that it's the best movie ever). And I'm not some kinda film snob either, my second favorite film of all time is Godzilla 2014 lol. I only want to suggest that more people should give classic film a try. I didn't think I'd like any "old" movies either until I saw Psycho (which to be honest is probably more modern than not, but I didn't know that at the time). I don't think people should cling to the past but they shouldn't neglect it either, and Citizen Kane is a good place to start because it is pretty darn accessible.

As long as we're recommending old movies for those who are interested though, I'd like to suggest The Rules of the Game. It's a French film from 1939. I saw it last year and it really blew me away; I never got the hype for long takes at all until this movie. There's a really good subtle marriage between the cinematography and storytelling.
 

vonFiedler

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It should be noted that Metropolis was initially disliked, then the whole film was lost, and what people have been geeking out over for a long time was a much shorter version. I'm interested in seeing that, as I agree that the "true" film is rather dragged out (only since 2010 have we had the full version).
 

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