Doublade has reason to run minimum speed because of Gyro Ball, so with a Shell Smash up, the listed Shuckle set would be at 82 speed and undersped by Doublade's 67 for the final turn of TR.
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Metagame Trademarked
- Thread starter Whitephoenixace
- Start date
NVM. I see now. thanks.
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alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
I never considered Power Trick Shuckle; that’s actually brilliant. The Simple Beam strat is great too. I’ve thought up a couple more interesting things as well:
- Smeargle, of course, rivals Mew in terms of versatility. Unlike Mew, it doesn’t have the stats to back up defensive or offensive sets, but its support capability is unmatched. Any entry hazard, weather, status, non-volatile status, stat drops, whatever you need in terms of support. Works especially well in tandem with Mew—they’re both too versatile to predict.
- Jumpluff. It has access to Leech Seed, Worry Seed, Aromatherapy, Encore and the rare Cotton Guard, combined with a fast U-Turn, but that’s not where its true potential lies. Jumpluff also gets access to Strength Sap, which acts as an Intimidate and a better Regenerator at the same time—two of the most useful Abilities around. Combined with the aforementioned Speed and U-Turn, Jumpluff is a fantastic pivot in this meta.
- Vileplume. Vileplume can also use Strength Sap, letting it act as a more defensive pivot.
- Charge. Instant Sp. Def boost and it doubles any Electric move you use on the first turn out. This is an especially great tool for Volt Switch Choice users like Zapdos (not Xurkitree though, at least not until the inevitable Tail Glow ban).
- Heliolisk could find a niche as a universal switch-in to any attack with Electrify. I doubt it’ll be viable, but it sounds cool on paper. Or as text on a computer screen.
- I kinda want to make a team with just terrible or nonsensical trademarks like Splash, Memento, Heal Pulse and Ingrain.
- I seriously think you should consider unbanning Aegislash. It’s forced to either: 1.) replace Stance Change and thus lose the ability to change into its sword form, or 2.) keep Stance Change, which is a huge drain on momentum in a meta where everything else can set up instantaneously upon switching in. Aegislash is a lot easier to punish when it’s one step behind everything else.
- Mantine. Its native Abilities aren’t very useful—it doesn’t need Swift Swim for anything, Water Veil is of no consequence, and Water Absorb would be a lot nicer on a Pokémon that didn’t already resist Water. In this meta, on the other hand, Mantine can trademark Roost, Defog or even Haze, freeing up space in its movepool. Alternatively, you could trademark something like Aqua Ring, which gives Mantine extra Leftovers recovery and mitigates its problems dealing with passive damage. You could even go for Mud Sport to slightly compensate for Mantine’s crippling Electric weakness. And of course it can be used as a rain setter or Tailwind setter.
- Milotic. Sort of in the same boat as Mantine, but with slightly more balance in terms of bulk, plus the added bonus of no Stealth Rock weakness and only a regular Electric weakness. Milotic doesn’t quite fill the same role as Mantine, though—it can’t use Defog or set up Tailwind, and it’s not the Ground-type switch-in that Mantine is. You’ll have to give up Marvel Scale to run a trademark, but Marvel Scale only works if you’re afflicted with a status condition anyway. I’d recommend Recover, Haze, Aqua Ring, or maybe Mud Sport. You could also use Coil for memes.
- The only other Coil user I could think of that might be relevant is Zygarde-10%. Power Construct is banned and Aura Break is useless, so ditching them in favor of Dragon Dance or Coil is a good move. Dragon Dance works better as the trademark if you want Zygarde to start attacking right away; if you’d rather boost your Speed more than once to ensure you outspeed everything, or if you want to have another Pokémon on your team trademark Dragon Dance, use Coil as the trademark instead and put Dragon Dance in your moveset proper.
- Another dumb meme idea: trademarking Defense Curl for Rollout shenanigans. With Defense Curl up, Rollout reaches 120 base power on the second turn, and it’s more accurate than Stone Edge, so it could maybe be marginally useful on a banded Pokémon like Aggron or Golem if you manage to KO a weakened or frail opponent with the first hit.
- In a similar vein, Alolan Sandslash could theoretically run Ice Ball with Defense Curl trademarked.
- Telekinesis. Instead of increasing everyone’s Accuracy with Gravity, you can run Telekinesis to guarantee hits on your opponent. Only run this over Gravity if the Pokémon you’re using doesn’t have or need a Ground move, or if you can afford to keep switching out and back in, since Telekinesis wears off if the opponent switches or faints (or after 3 turns). Pokémon that can make use of this include Alakazam (Focus Blast), Gengar (Focus Blast), Hoopa-U (Focus Blast and Gunk Shot), Chandelure (Fire Blast—finally, a reason to use it over Blacephalon), or even Medicham before Mega Evolving (HJK and Zen Headbutt, because it never hurts to be sure).
- Klinklang. Of course the first thing that springs to mind is Shift Gear, but Klinklang can honestly afford to have Shift Gear in its moveset and opt for a different trademark. Clear Body isn’t the most useful thing in the world, and Plus and Minus are completely worthless, so we’re not really losing much. Klinklang can take advantage of a number of trademarks—Gravity or Telekinesis for more reliable Gear Grinds, Magnet Rise for a pseudo-Levitate that allows it to set up against Ground-types, Thunder Wave for speed control and potential hax, or even Screech to potentially force a switch and let you set up. I think it could be decent.
- I hate to say it, but I can see Stunfisk carving out a niche for itself as a special Intimidate user by trademarking Eerie Impulse. It’s pretty specially bulky already, and it has Volt Switch to pivot back out; additionally, it gets Stealth Rock and can spread status around with Toxic, Thunder Wave, Discharge, Scald or even Yawn. I’m sure there’s some team out there that will actually benefit from using Eerie Impulse Stunfisk in this meta.
- Quagsire. It’ll miss Unaware, sure, but it can trademark Haze for an ever better version of Unaware. Alternatively, it could use Recover, Eerie Impulse (why does Quagsire get Eerie Impulse), Amnesia, Encore, Flash, Stockpile, among others.
- I can see Forest’s Curse, Trick-or-Treat and Soak being used in interesting ways.
- Gourgeist can do more than just Trick-or-Treat. It can trademark Will-o’-Wisp, Trick Room, Synthesis, Leech Seed, Light Screen, Trick, Worry Seed, Telekinesis, Scary Face, Disable or even Curse, all of which help it defensively or bolster its ability to support the team.
- Rotom-Fan might be the most useful Rotom form in this meta, as it can replace Levitate while keeping its Ground immunity. Instead, it could spread status around with Toxic, Will-o’-Wisp or Thunder Wave, or it could run Defog or even screens. Rotom-Wash is still quite good as well, but it really misses Levitate.
Thought of this set when I noticed Archeops hasn't had a ban slapped on it yet.
Archeops @ Life Orb
Ability: Agility / Hone Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hone Claws / Agility
Adamant would be used with Agility and Jolly with Hone Claws.
Archeops @ Life Orb
Ability: Agility / Hone Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hone Claws / Agility
Adamant would be used with Agility and Jolly with Hone Claws.
Made more Trademarked sets!
I have no clue which Screens setter is the best in this meta. I've picked Raikou here because it has the bulk to pull it off multiple times, it has the speed to actually set the other screen, it can pivot, and it's legal in Gen 6 so I can test it faster, but I've got a Screens Koko set because I'm sure being faster and having Taunt and reliable recovery will come in handy:
Raikou @ Light Clay
Ability: Reflect
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
Tapu Koko @ Light Clay
Ability: Reflect
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Light Screen
- U-turn
With Nature Power and Copycat being banned as trademarks in Gen 7, I've been trying out Me First as the closest you can get to both of them in terms of preemptive attacks and revenge killing. Lucario probably has the best mixed offences for this role, but Mew is substantially bulkier and can really pull it off more than once. Pair it with a Parting Shot trademark guy for maximum abuse. Beware of opponents spamming attacks they resist or are immune to (e.g. Lando-T Earthquake, Scizor Bullet Punch):
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Me First
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Me First
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Psyshock
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Soft-Boiled
No Spore for a trademark manages to nerf Breloom surprisingly little, as it can still get off a close-to-guaranteed Spore and get a free set-up turn with Substitute as the trademark (at the cost of losing its rather valuable ability):
Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Substitute
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Mach Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance
Despite its awkwardly many immunities and 4× resistances (a 4× U-turn resist is pretty awkward in this role), I've found Gengar to be a decent user of the Destiny Bond trademark. It's got low bulk, a weakness to Knock Off, and the speed and offences to bluff another role. Figure you can decide to not attack it or use a wet-noodle-strength attack and it can Taunt or Disable you instead. The attack investment is to get it KOed by opposing Foul Play as quickly as possible:
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Destiny Bond
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Taunt
I got some (sadly Gen 6) games in against the bot on ROM, so you can see Screens Raikou (poorly) and Me First Lucario in action in http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-trademarked-524153. Yes, Light Clay makes the Reflect trademark last 8 turns, and yes, Me First always procs if the opponent attacks as you switch in.
I have no clue which Screens setter is the best in this meta. I've picked Raikou here because it has the bulk to pull it off multiple times, it has the speed to actually set the other screen, it can pivot, and it's legal in Gen 6 so I can test it faster, but I've got a Screens Koko set because I'm sure being faster and having Taunt and reliable recovery will come in handy:
Raikou @ Light Clay
Ability: Reflect
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
Tapu Koko @ Light Clay
Ability: Reflect
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Light Screen
- U-turn
With Nature Power and Copycat being banned as trademarks in Gen 7, I've been trying out Me First as the closest you can get to both of them in terms of preemptive attacks and revenge killing. Lucario probably has the best mixed offences for this role, but Mew is substantially bulkier and can really pull it off more than once. Pair it with a Parting Shot trademark guy for maximum abuse. Beware of opponents spamming attacks they resist or are immune to (e.g. Lando-T Earthquake, Scizor Bullet Punch):
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Me First
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Me First
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Psyshock
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Soft-Boiled
No Spore for a trademark manages to nerf Breloom surprisingly little, as it can still get off a close-to-guaranteed Spore and get a free set-up turn with Substitute as the trademark (at the cost of losing its rather valuable ability):
Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Substitute
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Mach Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance
Despite its awkwardly many immunities and 4× resistances (a 4× U-turn resist is pretty awkward in this role), I've found Gengar to be a decent user of the Destiny Bond trademark. It's got low bulk, a weakness to Knock Off, and the speed and offences to bluff another role. Figure you can decide to not attack it or use a wet-noodle-strength attack and it can Taunt or Disable you instead. The attack investment is to get it KOed by opposing Foul Play as quickly as possible:
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Destiny Bond
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Taunt
I got some (sadly Gen 6) games in against the bot on ROM, so you can see Screens Raikou (poorly) and Me First Lucario in action in http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-trademarked-524153. Yes, Light Clay makes the Reflect trademark last 8 turns, and yes, Me First always procs if the opponent attacks as you switch in.
Ok as of current trademarked is now playable on rom !!.
You will need to use export/import to put in the trademarks however.
So you can now test some sets and teams out with users.
Please let me know if anything is there you may feel to be oppressive or if any pokemon or trademarks may be too much for the meta. I hope to do my best to help balance out.
However, make sure to bring up proper points and reason to support your views.
You will need to use export/import to put in the trademarks however.
So you can now test some sets and teams out with users.
Please let me know if anything is there you may feel to be oppressive or if any pokemon or trademarks may be too much for the meta. I hope to do my best to help balance out.
However, make sure to bring up proper points and reason to support your views.
It does. Its also explained in the op lol.
Ok flatout baton pass SHOULD have been banned by virtue of moves being banned by ou clauses being banned as tm. Urk did tell me that he basically made the gen 7 trademarked on rom from using the gen 6 variant (where baton pass was limited and not banned then iirc). Baton pass is suppose to be banned as tm. I have sent a message to urkerab regarding this, so hopefully when he has the time he could fix it.
so uhhhhhh
However, just dont build teams with baton pass and advise the same for your opponent as baton pass is banned
What mon triggered this reason? I've successfully made a Dragonite set with Dragon Dance as the trademark.
Dragon Dance isn't programmed?
Hmm thats really odd. Maybe you can use pastebin and show me your team. Cause I went to rom to test and it doesnt seems to be an issue. Did you happen to spell dragon dance wrong or something?
You can't have a trademark that duplicates a move in your main moveset.
Well this meta talk has been dry for a while so let me try to spark some conversation by discussing some of the pokemon and moves currently on the watchlist. Reason being as since I wasnt as much of a part of the om community in gen 6 as I was now, I never got the chance to really play trademarked and only really have what I have seen or gotten an idea of based on messing around a few matches to be threats. Which is also why in part I would like to get around 2 more experienced people to help me run (at least when I have a proper idea of the criteria I want to be met).
So for now I wanna put forth my views regarding some things I have on the watchlist and honestly wanna see what you guys may think.
Recovery Trademarks
Recovery trademarks not being banned was honestly just carried over from the banlist from last gen and honestly I do not see it being an immediate threat with pokemon being able to boost their stats freely on top of being able to hold items or even boost their attacks more so if they have similar boosting moves available. Even in terms of using recovery as a TM , you would find the actual pokemon can no longer recover on its own as very few pokemon have access to more than one form of consistent recovery and therefore would often have to opp for an assault vest, or hope it has enough bulk to stomache hits and force the opposing mon to flee before it is worn down. I still have it present on watchlist nonetheless as it gives birth to more assault vest users than there are in standard (and buff from 33% to 50% recovery to boot). And some pokemon have much better types for dealing with special walls among those with recovery and can therefore make breaking a team harder to do once all of your physically oriented pokemon go down (and could be even before then).
Me First
Now this move as opposed to the likes of nature power, mimic or copycat, is more limited in terms of how it can help you score kills. Unlike those spoken prior, it only activates if the me first mon was sent out the turn the opponent was about to use the attack. This in turn means that you have to be sure that what has me first when sent out can either send the attack back with enough power to kill it or that the move being used is resisted by and/or is super effective and not resisted by the opponent. Though the double power helps make the kill more likely, this is still a tossup nonetheless. However, the reality is that this does begin to cause mind games on par with sucker punch, as once you know your opponent has it they can then get you to begin to play with it in mind cause you to not use a move that would takeout the mon in front of you if it has enough power to revenge kill you as well. Though this one currently isnt on the watchlist, I wanna hear your views to see if it should be added.
PARTING SHOT
Now parting shot is probably the one I am leaning the closes to on banning. Parting shot on top of making it safe for your sweeper or wallbreaker to get in, it also has major use on stall as it allows for walls to better stomache hits, especially if the non parting shot switchin also runs a atk or spa drop move as well. Honestly feel after a certain point it may come where parting shot will basically be a staple on all teams or keeping hazards up or having magic bounce/ coat just to ware down one pokemon so you can actually get in to setup. Honestly it may end up becoming a necessary evil , however, with trademarks being limited I dont see offense necessarily posing so much of a threat that such may become so.
Xurkitree
Xurk can now opt to run a powerful spa boost move in tail glow to boost its already extremely high spa, while also running choice scarf as well to boost its subpar speed. It however also loses the snowballing power of beast boost. Now personally I feel xurk may become more of a threat down the line , but not too sure on its effectiveness since the meta hasnt really had a chance to get some ground. Though most teams in general will be doing their best to deal with setup mons and honestly scarf setup is one of the most basic things you should keep in mind when making your team. Xurk doesnt have the best of speed tiers and quite a few revenge killers will be scarfed with setup as well and most of the better ones outspeed xurk naturally. That on top of xurk not having the best of coverage options, I personally dont see it becoming too much of an immediate threat.
Hoopa Unbound
Hoopa U is in a similar place to xurk, however it actually has coverage, and can go on the physical or special side of the spectrum making it more of a trial to wall consistently. It has nasty plot to boost its special moves and though it lacks physical setup , it can come in and hit hard while completing ignoring any drops to itself or boost to its opponent with laser focus. Though its only switch in , it can still hit like a truck nonetheless and can potentially get it self a nice revenge kill or take a chunk out of anything else that lives.
Honestly though I really hope trademarked gets a ladder in May to properly develop the meta and so I can see where any issues may lie. Though I would like to see if I can get any sample teams from you guys and will try to post some of my own if I feel confident in there ability (at least at this point lol). Please give me your opinions but nonetheless have a Blessed Day .
So for now I wanna put forth my views regarding some things I have on the watchlist and honestly wanna see what you guys may think.
Recovery Trademarks
Recovery trademarks not being banned was honestly just carried over from the banlist from last gen and honestly I do not see it being an immediate threat with pokemon being able to boost their stats freely on top of being able to hold items or even boost their attacks more so if they have similar boosting moves available. Even in terms of using recovery as a TM , you would find the actual pokemon can no longer recover on its own as very few pokemon have access to more than one form of consistent recovery and therefore would often have to opp for an assault vest, or hope it has enough bulk to stomache hits and force the opposing mon to flee before it is worn down. I still have it present on watchlist nonetheless as it gives birth to more assault vest users than there are in standard (and buff from 33% to 50% recovery to boot). And some pokemon have much better types for dealing with special walls among those with recovery and can therefore make breaking a team harder to do once all of your physically oriented pokemon go down (and could be even before then).
Me First
Now this move as opposed to the likes of nature power, mimic or copycat, is more limited in terms of how it can help you score kills. Unlike those spoken prior, it only activates if the me first mon was sent out the turn the opponent was about to use the attack. This in turn means that you have to be sure that what has me first when sent out can either send the attack back with enough power to kill it or that the move being used is resisted by and/or is super effective and not resisted by the opponent. Though the double power helps make the kill more likely, this is still a tossup nonetheless. However, the reality is that this does begin to cause mind games on par with sucker punch, as once you know your opponent has it they can then get you to begin to play with it in mind cause you to not use a move that would takeout the mon in front of you if it has enough power to revenge kill you as well. Though this one currently isnt on the watchlist, I wanna hear your views to see if it should be added.
PARTING SHOT
Now parting shot is probably the one I am leaning the closes to on banning. Parting shot on top of making it safe for your sweeper or wallbreaker to get in, it also has major use on stall as it allows for walls to better stomache hits, especially if the non parting shot switchin also runs a atk or spa drop move as well. Honestly feel after a certain point it may come where parting shot will basically be a staple on all teams or keeping hazards up or having magic bounce/ coat just to ware down one pokemon so you can actually get in to setup. Honestly it may end up becoming a necessary evil , however, with trademarks being limited I dont see offense necessarily posing so much of a threat that such may become so.
Xurkitree
Xurk can now opt to run a powerful spa boost move in tail glow to boost its already extremely high spa, while also running choice scarf as well to boost its subpar speed. It however also loses the snowballing power of beast boost. Now personally I feel xurk may become more of a threat down the line , but not too sure on its effectiveness since the meta hasnt really had a chance to get some ground. Though most teams in general will be doing their best to deal with setup mons and honestly scarf setup is one of the most basic things you should keep in mind when making your team. Xurk doesnt have the best of speed tiers and quite a few revenge killers will be scarfed with setup as well and most of the better ones outspeed xurk naturally. That on top of xurk not having the best of coverage options, I personally dont see it becoming too much of an immediate threat.
Hoopa Unbound
Hoopa U is in a similar place to xurk, however it actually has coverage, and can go on the physical or special side of the spectrum making it more of a trial to wall consistently. It has nasty plot to boost its special moves and though it lacks physical setup , it can come in and hit hard while completing ignoring any drops to itself or boost to its opponent with laser focus. Though its only switch in , it can still hit like a truck nonetheless and can potentially get it self a nice revenge kill or take a chunk out of anything else that lives.
Honestly though I really hope trademarked gets a ladder in May to properly develop the meta and so I can see where any issues may lie. Though I would like to see if I can get any sample teams from you guys and will try to post some of my own if I feel confident in there ability (at least at this point lol). Please give me your opinions but nonetheless have a Blessed Day .
I believe we need to pay some fairly strong attention to 2 more trademarks. 1 of them is on the watchlist, and the other isn't for some inexplicable reason:
Substitute
While this doesn't grant any offensive boosts, this provides a LOT of defensive utility. Your mon cannot be KOed as long as the sub is up (unless they hit you with a sound move)--this means that 4x weaknesses can be semi-ignored for crucial turns. Your mon practically cannot be statused while the sub is up, either. Pursuit trapping suddenly gets a lot less effective. Sub trademark users make safe leads and excellent revenge killers as a result, even if switching them into attacks is still rather risky. I've had success with haymaker Sub trademark users such as Heatran, Victini, Hoopa-U, and even Breloom (the Sub giving Breloom a window to Spore and set up is nasty), and I suspect they only scratch the surface (e.g. I suspect Kartana is also a good user of the Sub trademark). Due to the power and reliability of Sub trademark users, I feel that I need priority for revenge killing much less than in OU.
Destiny Bond
Anyone who remembers Innards Out Chansey in Balanced Hackmons is probably having nightmarish flashbacks now. Just switch your Destiny Bond trademark user into an attack and you've just traded 1-for-1 with your opponent--and they likely lost their most valuable guy in the process. Gengar probably does the best job of bluffing a different trademark while being paper bag levels of frail, but Froslass has more weaknesses and is also dang frail, and Level 1 Smeargle is so frail that it can KO Rapid Spinners and walls that use weak attacks. Refuse to attack and all 3 of them can take advantage of your passivity--Gengar and Froslass can both Taunt and Will-O-Wisp, Froslass can set Spikes, and Smeargle can do anything from Spore to Encore to Sticky Web (and has the advantage of being very slow when it's Level 1, thus forcing the non-KOed opponent to spend another turn not attacking). Sharpedo might actually be a decent Destiny Bond trademark user due to bluffing being the Mega on the team, and Hoopa-U might actually do a passable job due to its frailty on the physical side, its 4× weakness to U-turn, its relative lack of resistances, and its extremely strong ability to bluff other trademarks. Mimikyu makes a hilarious and frail Destiny Bond trademark user, even if a well-played regular old Disguise Mimikyu should be able to KO a mon without sacrificing itself. All in all, I don't know why Destiny Bond isn't already on the watchlist--I suspect it is more worthy of a ban than quite possibly the entire current watchlist.
Substitute
While this doesn't grant any offensive boosts, this provides a LOT of defensive utility. Your mon cannot be KOed as long as the sub is up (unless they hit you with a sound move)--this means that 4x weaknesses can be semi-ignored for crucial turns. Your mon practically cannot be statused while the sub is up, either. Pursuit trapping suddenly gets a lot less effective. Sub trademark users make safe leads and excellent revenge killers as a result, even if switching them into attacks is still rather risky. I've had success with haymaker Sub trademark users such as Heatran, Victini, Hoopa-U, and even Breloom (the Sub giving Breloom a window to Spore and set up is nasty), and I suspect they only scratch the surface (e.g. I suspect Kartana is also a good user of the Sub trademark). Due to the power and reliability of Sub trademark users, I feel that I need priority for revenge killing much less than in OU.
Destiny Bond
Anyone who remembers Innards Out Chansey in Balanced Hackmons is probably having nightmarish flashbacks now. Just switch your Destiny Bond trademark user into an attack and you've just traded 1-for-1 with your opponent--and they likely lost their most valuable guy in the process. Gengar probably does the best job of bluffing a different trademark while being paper bag levels of frail, but Froslass has more weaknesses and is also dang frail, and Level 1 Smeargle is so frail that it can KO Rapid Spinners and walls that use weak attacks. Refuse to attack and all 3 of them can take advantage of your passivity--Gengar and Froslass can both Taunt and Will-O-Wisp, Froslass can set Spikes, and Smeargle can do anything from Spore to Encore to Sticky Web (and has the advantage of being very slow when it's Level 1, thus forcing the non-KOed opponent to spend another turn not attacking). Sharpedo might actually be a decent Destiny Bond trademark user due to bluffing being the Mega on the team, and Hoopa-U might actually do a passable job due to its frailty on the physical side, its 4× weakness to U-turn, its relative lack of resistances, and its extremely strong ability to bluff other trademarks. Mimikyu makes a hilarious and frail Destiny Bond trademark user, even if a well-played regular old Disguise Mimikyu should be able to KO a mon without sacrificing itself. All in all, I don't know why Destiny Bond isn't already on the watchlist--I suspect it is more worthy of a ban than quite possibly the entire current watchlist.
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just posting something i thought would be nice on trick room (or gimmicky at best)
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: bellydrum
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Bone
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
Basically setup a trick room, send this badboi out and proceed to watch everything not running a tm name haze, iron defense or charm (might still not tank) die. HIts like a truck but basically a one hit wonder since it wont be able to setup again. Also has to worry about stealth rocks. It could provide a means to knock out some serious threats to other members of your team in a match or could be a later game sweeper.
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: bellydrum
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Bone
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
Basically setup a trick room, send this badboi out and proceed to watch everything not running a tm name haze, iron defense or charm (might still not tank) die. HIts like a truck but basically a one hit wonder since it wont be able to setup again. Also has to worry about stealth rocks. It could provide a means to knock out some serious threats to other members of your team in a match or could be a later game sweeper.
Any thoughts on Kartana and Hoopa-U? I was working on a set that I *think* can check both of them. What makes Hoopa-U threatening, aside from the obvious, is laser focus. This guarantees a crit, making its attack do 50% more damage and ignore any stat drops/raises from opposing switch-ins' trademarks. Kartana can use swords dance or substitute, avoiding status and getting a free swords dance. These sets can also use choice band (and even specs or life orb in Hoopa's case), making them even more powerful. Anyway, this is my idea:
Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Acid Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 132 SpD
Nature: Careful
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Fire Punch
- Poison Jab/Fang
This is also meant to serve as a Blacephalon check, but that thing packs a punch with calm mind as a trademark, specs, and mind blown. It does have a huge drawback, but OHKOing nearly everything, and 2HKOing everything else makes it way too powerful. What are your thoughts on Blacephalon? How would you check it? Rain dance Mantine? Lol
Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Acid Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 132 SpD
Nature: Careful
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Fire Punch
- Poison Jab/Fang
This is also meant to serve as a Blacephalon check, but that thing packs a punch with calm mind as a trademark, specs, and mind blown. It does have a huge drawback, but OHKOing nearly everything, and 2HKOing everything else makes it way too powerful. What are your thoughts on Blacephalon? How would you check it? Rain dance Mantine? Lol
So with April drawing to a close and comes and May being right around the corner ( Trademarked time to shine may come) I thought I should try to make some sample teams for the meta
Now my teambuilding skills arent the best and the evs on the sets are preliminary. So here is a new team I am proposing for a sample for Trademarked.
Note: I also would love some sample teams to be submitted though as opposed to this one thats merely a prelim team I would like to see some examples of its effectiveness or just an explanation to shows me its effectivness.
https://pokepast.es/5315b7f87456d0f4
Its just a basic balance team with an attempt to cover some of the things I find to be more threatening in the meta.
Salamence, is the physical wall and defogger. Noticeably geared towards dealing with kartana (save for laser focus variants if banded). With lots of stuff running sd or other attack boosting moves along with salamence having a decent typing for dealing stomacheing common physical types (save for rock and dragon the latter of which mag covers), i feel this set can at least work to some degree. Dragon tail also helps to mitigate the likely hood of something just setting up in salamence`s face.
Chansey acts as a rock setter on top of being a wish passer. Honestly if your really feeling it you can run wish as a trademark and stealth rocks in your regular moves. Its just to potentialy make salamence hazard removal and walling an easier task on top of keeping magearna alive as well. And of course a special attack sponge.
Magearna is anti meta in terms of having heart swap to deal with anything that may insta setup and try to run over your team. If mag can either resist or is immune to the oncoming hit(which isnt too hard since mag has so many resists to common types) it can be free switchin and if it doesnt, you could still revenge kill after mag gets in as high chances are the pokemon it faces will either do too little dmg at that point or be slower. Iron head is run for the sake of physical coverage if mag swaps with a physical attacker. Volt switch is for pivoting on the likely switch upon the mon being robbed of its dmg boost, ice beam is preliminary coverage and of course fleur cannon is strong stab. The evs are just to give it decent special bulk though i feel they can be better optimized as the meta develops.
Hoopa Unbound, is the wallbreaker and does it well. This takes from the set idea someone posted earlier regarding laser focus Hoopa unbound. Its basically an anti meta wallbreaker as most teams will be running the likes of self defensive stat buffing or opposing offensive stat dropping moves, and critting ignores both these factors. Hoopa U already boasts an extremely high atk stat of 170, and has decent coverage so very little is living after that on top of crit and choice band. Its stabs are especially frightening as very little will live or take less than half of their hp in dmkg after getting hit by one of em. Its speed is still not among the best but still just enough to outspeed most walls which is the only thing hoopa u should be aiming to attack at. Also have keep in mind laser focus will only be available for the first turn out and not subsequent ones. You could also run a mixed set with hoopa u as its special stat is high to do decent without being invested.
Landorus-Therian is both a double dancer on top of helping to revenge kill faster opponents. Stone edge is of course for stuff like zapdos, and anything else that may resists its primary stabs. Once all atk drop trademark mons are down this thing can clear a team out fairly easily as it has shown to do so in standard and best part is it only needs one turn to setup as opposed to the usual two.
Volcarona, the last mon on the team and honestly added more so for special coverage than anything else lol. May honestly be the most irrelevant mon on the team. However, it is still good in its own right. Calm mind lets it have a boost up before it uses quiver dance letting it reach to sweep ability faster. Will o wisp can also be used to deal with the pesky physical attackers volcarona dislikes (however have to beware of accuracy). Flame plate is run for lack of a better item since z slot is taken by lando for fly. Hidden power electric is run instead of giga drain for chipping pex, though as i write this, psychic or hp ground could easily do the same while still hitting other notable things (lol).
This is a sample team I am proposing and wouldnt mind some opinions to better it for general use. Just wanted to make something for people to use day one as thats something I find that happens with alot of new omotm, where people cant find samples to use. So please critique it and post your own so that it could potentially be considered for samples
Now my teambuilding skills arent the best and the evs on the sets are preliminary. So here is a new team I am proposing for a sample for Trademarked.
Note: I also would love some sample teams to be submitted though as opposed to this one thats merely a prelim team I would like to see some examples of its effectiveness or just an explanation to shows me its effectivness.
https://pokepast.es/5315b7f87456d0f4
Its just a basic balance team with an attempt to cover some of the things I find to be more threatening in the meta.
Salamence, is the physical wall and defogger. Noticeably geared towards dealing with kartana (save for laser focus variants if banded). With lots of stuff running sd or other attack boosting moves along with salamence having a decent typing for dealing stomacheing common physical types (save for rock and dragon the latter of which mag covers), i feel this set can at least work to some degree. Dragon tail also helps to mitigate the likely hood of something just setting up in salamence`s face.
Chansey acts as a rock setter on top of being a wish passer. Honestly if your really feeling it you can run wish as a trademark and stealth rocks in your regular moves. Its just to potentialy make salamence hazard removal and walling an easier task on top of keeping magearna alive as well. And of course a special attack sponge.
Magearna is anti meta in terms of having heart swap to deal with anything that may insta setup and try to run over your team. If mag can either resist or is immune to the oncoming hit(which isnt too hard since mag has so many resists to common types) it can be free switchin and if it doesnt, you could still revenge kill after mag gets in as high chances are the pokemon it faces will either do too little dmg at that point or be slower. Iron head is run for the sake of physical coverage if mag swaps with a physical attacker. Volt switch is for pivoting on the likely switch upon the mon being robbed of its dmg boost, ice beam is preliminary coverage and of course fleur cannon is strong stab. The evs are just to give it decent special bulk though i feel they can be better optimized as the meta develops.
Hoopa Unbound, is the wallbreaker and does it well. This takes from the set idea someone posted earlier regarding laser focus Hoopa unbound. Its basically an anti meta wallbreaker as most teams will be running the likes of self defensive stat buffing or opposing offensive stat dropping moves, and critting ignores both these factors. Hoopa U already boasts an extremely high atk stat of 170, and has decent coverage so very little is living after that on top of crit and choice band. Its stabs are especially frightening as very little will live or take less than half of their hp in dmkg after getting hit by one of em. Its speed is still not among the best but still just enough to outspeed most walls which is the only thing hoopa u should be aiming to attack at. Also have keep in mind laser focus will only be available for the first turn out and not subsequent ones. You could also run a mixed set with hoopa u as its special stat is high to do decent without being invested.
Landorus-Therian is both a double dancer on top of helping to revenge kill faster opponents. Stone edge is of course for stuff like zapdos, and anything else that may resists its primary stabs. Once all atk drop trademark mons are down this thing can clear a team out fairly easily as it has shown to do so in standard and best part is it only needs one turn to setup as opposed to the usual two.
Volcarona, the last mon on the team and honestly added more so for special coverage than anything else lol. May honestly be the most irrelevant mon on the team. However, it is still good in its own right. Calm mind lets it have a boost up before it uses quiver dance letting it reach to sweep ability faster. Will o wisp can also be used to deal with the pesky physical attackers volcarona dislikes (however have to beware of accuracy). Flame plate is run for lack of a better item since z slot is taken by lando for fly. Hidden power electric is run instead of giga drain for chipping pex, though as i write this, psychic or hp ground could easily do the same while still hitting other notable things (lol).
This is a sample team I am proposing and wouldnt mind some opinions to better it for general use. Just wanted to make something for people to use day one as thats something I find that happens with alot of new omotm, where people cant find samples to use. So please critique it and post your own so that it could potentially be considered for samples
Uh, is Archeops legal?
I've got a team, but I'm not an expert, so I don't think it'll be sample-worthy. Plus, I want to keep it a secret for when/if Trademarked get OMoTM. I'll post some sets I've thought of though, when teambuilding (mostly wallbreakers, because I play stall, and think of these sets in preparation).
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Dragon Dance
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
I was going to have a defensive mew on my team, but then I thought this up when I was trying to pursuit-proof my team. Dragon Dance makes you faster than max speed base 100s, and, in combination with choice band, allows you to 2HKO defensive mew with pursuit if it stays in. If you want to trap Lati@s, you can run Jolly; it still 2HKOs Mew with pursuit, but I'm not sure of other benchmarks.
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Reflect/SwordsDance/Substitute
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
Reflect gives Zard an easier time setting up against a physical attackers, while Swords Dance saves set up time, especially useful against stall. Substitute bypasses status, and provides a relatively free switch in. With Heatran likely using Trademarks, you can afford to not use Earthquake.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Stealth Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
This pressures stall hard. It gets rocks up as soon as it gets in, making it hard to switch to the likes of Salamence, Zapdos, and Avalugg, which also fear Continental Crush. Gliscor isn't afraid of stealth rock, but a +2 Continental Crush will OHKO it. This set almost guarantees rocks staying up.
Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Swords Dance
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Smart Strike
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
This guy needs some serious attention. It requires extreme checks, like Reflect Zapdos and Bulk Up Buzzwole. Not even Iron Defense Skarmory works, because Sacred Sword ignores defense boosts. There's not much to say about this set... it just punches holes through teams.
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Dragon Dance
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
I was going to have a defensive mew on my team, but then I thought this up when I was trying to pursuit-proof my team. Dragon Dance makes you faster than max speed base 100s, and, in combination with choice band, allows you to 2HKO defensive mew with pursuit if it stays in. If you want to trap Lati@s, you can run Jolly; it still 2HKOs Mew with pursuit, but I'm not sure of other benchmarks.
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Reflect/SwordsDance/Substitute
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
Reflect gives Zard an easier time setting up against a physical attackers, while Swords Dance saves set up time, especially useful against stall. Substitute bypasses status, and provides a relatively free switch in. With Heatran likely using Trademarks, you can afford to not use Earthquake.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Stealth Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
This pressures stall hard. It gets rocks up as soon as it gets in, making it hard to switch to the likes of Salamence, Zapdos, and Avalugg, which also fear Continental Crush. Gliscor isn't afraid of stealth rock, but a +2 Continental Crush will OHKO it. This set almost guarantees rocks staying up.
Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Swords Dance
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Smart Strike
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
This guy needs some serious attention. It requires extreme checks, like Reflect Zapdos and Bulk Up Buzzwole. Not even Iron Defense Skarmory works, because Sacred Sword ignores defense boosts. There's not much to say about this set... it just punches holes through teams.
Careful which users. For example, my Heart Swap Magearnas keep getting OHKOed by the Swords Dance Garchomp on the bot's team on ROM even after Heart Swapping the Swords Dance boost off. I don't predict Heart Swap Magearna doing well against that quote's Lando-T set, for instance. (Heart Swap Manaphy does considerably better, though.)
More creative ways to do numbers to boosting sets include
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This looks like a really cool format. Is strength sap legal? That could make some really powerful pivots. I was also thinking about just how powerful trick room could be now that setting it up isn't that difficult. Plus, how does skill swap work?
Strength sap is legal as its users are limited and in there own rights arent necessarily overly bulky otherwise or have great defensive typing so at this point i dont see them as a threat.
Skill swap I should check and will get back to you on that . Will probably edit yhis post with the answer.
Edit: Its Banned not out of being broken but because of how tm activated when changed, it causes skill swap to send the turn into an infinite circle. So i added its ban to the op
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