Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[Ur local kangaroo]

UR -> C

Murder Dog has a good niche of revenge killing volc from a free switch, threatens pokemon such as heatran, slowking, magnezone, kyurem, tyrantar, and zapdos. It takes advantage of pivots such as scizor, slowking, blissey and corviknight to be brought in safely and threaten the opponent with its stabs and coverage moves in crunch and close combat. Also takes advantage of future sight from slowking against targets such as clefable, landorus-t, and toxapex. It is not going any higher due to its frailty and inability to force progress against defensive teams.

Calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 390-460 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Volcarona: 577-686 (154.6 - 183.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 328-387 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 450-530 (115 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 244-291 (81.6 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc-Dusk Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 359-424 (93.7 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 307-361 (87.2 - 102.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 325-385 (125.4 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc-Dusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 117-138 (30.6 - 36.1%) -- 50.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Forces progress vs landorus-t and eventually leaves it in range of other pokemon or 2 stone edges
252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc-Dusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 173-204 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Drops clefable after a bit of chip such as future sight, crippled with knock off, or ate a attack earler such as corviknight brave bird or a clefable's moonblast

Interesting post, but I'm pretty sure you have to provide some replays if you're going to nominate a UR Pokemon to show that said UR Pokemon is worth being ranked

 

[Jaajgko]

I really disagree with Zeraora rising to A+. While its access to high speed, good coverage, knock off and electric immunity give him good splashability, you can't actually throw it into most teams, because it relies a lot on support, specifically Teleport and (slow) U-turn. As opposed to his rival Tapu Koko, you can't afford to hard switch Zeraora on a bulky water, because a scald burn can be fatal and the chip damage is terrible since it has no recovery move (not to mention that it does nothing to Toxapex and it risks nothing by clicking Scald/Knock/Toxic and switch out afterwards). It's the same with bulky flying types, you have to be careful when sending in Zeraora against Corviknight, Skarmory, Mandibuzz or Tornadus, as they all have good ways of crippling it. Going Zeraora once on an attack from these mons is usually fine but do it more than that and Zeraora is in big trouble. I also want to point out that Zeraora is not a good electric check, it's only good at dissuading your opponent from clicking Volt Switch, so while you don't need a ground type on your team, you still need an electric check like Ferrothorn. Having the best speed in the tier doesn't make it an amazing revenge killer btw, because it can often fail to OHKO some threats (Kartana, Hydreigon and Kyurem survive CC, Latios and Dragapult survive Knock).
My point is that while it does have very good utility, and is good at making progress against offensive teams, it needs to be brought in several times on the field to do that, which requires teleport support. If you compare it to the other mons in A+, they pretty much all function well without specific support, which is not the case for Zeraora, and offer about as much utility as Zeraora.

 

[Magcargo]

I really disagree with Zeraora rising to A+. While its access to high speed, good coverage, knock off and electric immunity give him good splashability, you can't actually throw it into most teams, because it relies a lot on support, specifically Teleport and (slow) U-turn. As opposed to his rival Tapu Koko, you can't afford to hard switch Zeraora on a bulky water, because a scald burn can be fatal and the chip damage is terrible since it has no recovery move (not to mention that it does nothing to Toxapex and it risks nothing by clicking Scald/Knock/Toxic and switch out afterwards). It's the same with bulky flying types, you have to be careful when sending in Zeraora against Corviknight, Skarmory, Mandibuzz or Tornadus, as they all have good ways of crippling it. Going Zeraora once on an attack from these mons is usually fine but do it more than that and Zeraora is in big trouble. I also want to point out that Zeraora is not a good electric check, it's only good at dissuading your opponent from clicking Volt Switch, so while you don't need a ground type on your team, you still need an electric check like Ferrothorn.
My point is that while it is better than Koko at making progress with Knock off and can take up the ground type slot of your team, it requires careful play and needs to be brought in through pivoting moves, double switches, or when predicting a recovery move or a defog, which is particulary problematic since it requires to be brought in many times before it can wear down its checks enough.

Considering the abundance of slow pivots in the metagame like Clefable, Scizor, Corviknight, Slowking and Landorus-T(not sure if this counts as a slow pivot), I don't feel like its that much of a hassle to include one on a team. And its not like Zeraora doesn't benefit from fast pivots either. Dragapult can also bring Zeraora in safely since it attracts mons that Zeraora preys on, like Blissey, Tyranitar, etc. I agree that Zeraora alone is a pretty mediocre Electric-type check, but combining it with other semi-decent Electric checks like Garchomp and Landorus-T is usually enough to withstand their assaults. A lot of Electric checks in the higher tiers get worn down pretty easily, so alleviating pressure against them is really nice. I also agree that Tapu Koko has a much better general matchup spread than Zeraora, especially against mons you'd want an Electric-type for (namely Pex and Corv). However, the reason I feel that Zeraora is stronger in the current metagame is that it does a much better job at checking Dragapult. It shouldn't be your only defense against pult and should be run with a mon that can more reliably switch into Pult (like Heatran), but this is usually good enough to keep pult pressured throughout the match. While I think Tapu Koko is generally better, fitting it onto a team can be tough since Electric-Terrain worsens the team's vulnerability to Electric- attacks and the team needs a better Pult answer on top of that.

EDIT: I did watch a few WCOP games and noticed that Tapu Koko was used a lot more there alongside Heatran and Landorus and those teams generally did fine vs other Electric-types and Pult, so my concerns might not be as relevant at higher level play. That being said, I'd rather move Tapu Koko up than Zeraora down.

 

[Tysonslayer]

to A- or keep it on A: After some discussions with other people I am even more convinced that this mon is just underwhelming. When I was working on this post for defensive counterplay I noticed that all the mons mentioned effectively prevent Rillaboom to do its so called wallbreaking while more dangerous offensive grass wallbreakers such as Kartana or even the rising threat of Tapu Bulu can efficetely be strong wallbreakers while being able to pressure there checks a lot more. Now lets say you wanna be an effective wallbreaker and you decide to run Swords Dance Life Orb you want Superpower, but then the attack decreases screws it over and you still struggle against Flying-types. Gomi gave a good reasoning as to why Rillaboom struggles while still a good mon don't really feel this thing is that big of a threat like people say it is.

to A: Scizor has been really incredible for many teams for its ability in covering threats like Kyurem and Tapu Lele and the great utility this mons brings for teams. While functioning as a defensive mon in most cases with Swords Dance it can function as a late game cleaner against weakened teams easily. The utility this mon provides in one slot and can go either way if you want to run Swords Dance on Scizor which can act as a pivot with U-Turn generating momentum for its teammates bringing them in, while Knock Off is great in removing crucial items against it switchins thar rely on them. It can even run a more offensive version with metal coat while still have defensive properties increasing its damage of Bullet Punch to deal again Calm Mind Clefable is really nice. Comparing Scizor to the other mons in A- sticks out to me the most for how incredible it is right now in the metagame.

to B+: Tapu Bulu is an incredible wallbreaker in the tier with a great coverage with Close Combat no longer needing to decrease its attack boost from Superpower and in conjuction with Stone Edge gives it an edge compared to Rillaboom and Kartana in being able to pressure its checks a lot easier. While its speed tier does let it get revenged against Tornadus-T and Volcarona who wouldn't want to switch into it, makes Tapu Bulu very threatening for teams who their main switchin are the metal birds. Tapu Bulu's typing along with Grassy Terrain gives it some defensive property in being able to switch in against Landorus-T, Urshifu-R, and Rillaboom. All of this compiled with a deadly wallbreaker that is able to break past through its check are worthy for it to rise.

to B+: Gastrodon is worth a subrank by one not A-, as one of the few mons in the tier that cannot lose it's item with Sticky Hold that can function as a Knock Off sponge for teams. Its great typing and access to reliable recovery making it an effective switching against the likes of top tier threats such as Zeraora, Heatran, and Tapu Koko. Clear Smog is a nice move to run which removes that boost and can handle in covering against Calm Mind Clefable and Volcarona, while it can also run Storm Drain letting it acts as a water-resist for teams in case they lack one. Even though this thing does hate getting crippled by Toxic and getting taunted if you bypass all that this thing is an incredible Special Defensive wall.

to C- or UR: I understand the reason the niche you can make about this that keeps this thing ranked is the fastest Screen Setter and can go boom, as a Special Wallbreaker its not even effective with the lack of coverage and every team will be containing an electric immunity and resist for the better offensive Electric Types in Tapu Koko and Zeraora. Even as a screen setter its questionable why use this compared to Grimmsnarl who has Taunt, Thunder Wave, and better checks Dragapult while Tapu Koko has Taunt and uses U-Turn not to be taken advantage of Ground-types and to bring in its teammates without being blocked against Ground-types, this mon has been bad for a long time now and is it really worth using compared to other mons in the tier.
to UR: This thing is just underwhelming no matter, while even its own ability of Disguise is probably giving it that niche it needs overall Mimikyu is just underwhelming, maybe as a late came cleaner against weakened team, but its really not that hard to lose against this especially how easy it is to chip it down, its about time this rejected digimon got booted off the viability rankings.

to UR: When was the last time you actually seen this used as a wallbreaker since the most effective way to use it is in Sun, outside of that offers nothing else you want to run Specs in order to maximize your wallbreaking potential and then you become vulnerable to hazards making you waste turns to Roost off. In many cases most Sun teams as of late don't even bother using this especially since mons like Zeraora and Dragapult can revenge it, and then you have switchins who don't even drop against two Overheats under sun such as Slowking, Garchomp, and Blissey who are frequently seen on many teams.

to UR Webs as a whole has fallen as an archetype has fallen and these don't offer much utility besides that, maybe you can make an exception Ribombee can do something with Quiver Dance, but then again Volcarona exist and offers a lot more utility.

 

[JTD783]

Okay what the hell is this Tapu Fini slander.

B+ to A- or A

Tapu Fini is in a great spot right now and should not have dropped in the last update; if anything, it might deserve to rise. The standard Calm Mind set is very useful for checking the newly-appointed S-tier and A-tier Dragapult and Urshifu-R, respectively, and remains useful for checking Heatran. It's great role compression, and I think its matchup with Heatran especially deserves emphasis. Here is a mon that can reliably switch into Magma Storm without fearing Toxic, then retaliate with Scald, or Taunt/Calm Mind if's faster and/or the Heatran lacks Taunt. In addition, Tapu Fini checks the Dark-types that are surging in viability.

Here's a bonus replay of my Calm Mind Fini 6-0ing in an OU Room Tour finals https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1343643613

 

[Ctann]

Primarina should be B or B+, it makes a great lead vs. landorus, garchomp, specs dragapult or urshifu. It also 3hkos slowking with the metronome set whilst not being threatened by it.

the only reason I wouldn’t suggest A for it is that it really only has one viable set: sub or flip turn and 3 attacks with a metronome.

the fact that only 3 OU Pokémon can reliably switch into it, without worrying about prediction is scary. Sometimes I’ve even beaten a Ferrothorn with a timely scald or a weakened blissey/chanzey thanks to the fact that they can easily get forced into a “soft boiled Cycle” and a crit or a burn can turn that on its head.

Sometimes I’ve 6-0ed a team that tries to switch around or heal in the face of the metronome boosted attacks.


Replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1327156357-p47be5kvfixman43766gunx0zn43b1wpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1342115885-qg4d7gk8541p9c3caioso6j43htdr7lpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1296835792-xnfhfu5rtrqbbn7ctkfhqwtp9z1mq31pw

—



Dragonite is definitely one of the best Pokémon right now as an answer to the myriad of threats that can sometimes sweep an entire team.

a standard 252hp set with at least some attack investment (I like 112+) and dual wing beat can check:

- Volcarona (A)
- Hawlucha (B)
- Urshifu (A)
- Rillaboom (A)

Throw on extreme speed and you can have some clutch end game situations with a +1. It’s like a 2in1 Pokémon used to check big threats or sweep in an end game.

—


Slowking Galar is a serious threat with max defense (252/252+ bold survives EQ from all ground types, barring boosting items such as life orb). Being a very reliable lure to Garchomp, landorus, and coming in clutch as a check to hawlucha with the following set:

Slowking-Galar @ Black Sludge / Expert Belt
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Sludge Bomb
- Trick / Flamethrower
- Icebeam / Scald

pyschic easily disposes of Hawlucha in all terrains except Misty terrain. It also takes out Urshifu, who can’t even 2hko unless it’s water attack is boosted. It’s a necessary move to keep a threat on Toxapex too

Sludge bomb allows it to retain usefulness verse threats like rillaboom or clefable. Who might otherwise be a problem.

Trick is to be used with black sludge. Keeping you useful verse the most common switch ins, such as Blissey, Tyranitar, Corviknight and Heatran

flamethrower Allows you to hit most steels if you don’t want trick. It’s also a bit more reliable when a team has multiple switchIns

Ice beam almost KOs the x4 ice weak Pokémon’s. If you run expert belt it will take out most 252hp variants as well. Expert belt is also a reliable way to take out bulkier Pokémon like clefable, corviknight and heavily damages Hawlucha in misty terrain.

You can reliably switch this variant into defensive Pokémon’s like slowking too!

—



Heatran should be S tier, except I guess the high incidences of offensive teams keeps it tame in A+, usually offensive teams don’t mind heatran, and I guess Heatran is the only thing preventing Volcarona from going to ubers.

-



speaking of Volcarona, a bulky set with 196 HP / 248+ Def and 64 Spd is actually what I find it has the most utility with. It comfortably survives banded aqua jets from urshifu, sets up on dragapult, switches into banded melmetal and beats most Kartana sets that don’t have a choice band! It’s also my favourite offensive switch in to Weavile and Rillaboom.

-



Rillaboom is probably not S due to the flying types that soar at the top of OU... I’ve been having massive success with a miracle seed set, using wood hammer and grassy glide, it takes advantage of the fact that Zapdos is on a downtrend and can sweep a massive number of teams or support your team with terrain whilst avoiding life orb recoil.

here’s the set:


Rillaboom @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Wood Hammer
- Drain Punch
- Grassy Glide


-



I don’t think Zeraora is on the same level as garchomp and heatran, mostly because it needs a lot of support to truly be a threat

 

[TailGlowVM]

Why I believe the council is correct to put Zeraora at A+ (especially since I think some people might be missing the point of why it has been moved up):

Firstly, yes, Ground-types are and probably always will be everywhere, but take a look at the usage stats and VR. You'll see the best and most used two are Landorus-T and Garchomp. Even though they can switch in to it, most of the time players are forced to bring them or another Ground-type in to avoid forfeiting momentum, so Zeraora can cripple them with Knock Off or Toxic. Anyway, these two being the best options is great for Zeraora because they lack recovery moves and hate losing their items (unless they are Rest Garchomp, but pretty sure most Garchomp run offensive sets at the moment.) There are plenty of ways to capitalise on this, either by having teammates that dislike facing them that can overpower them with the chip damage, or just wearing them down so Zeraora can now properly gain momentum. Other Ground-types like Hippowdon and Nidoking to some extent dislike Knock Off and Toxic as well.

Second, even if Zeraora does need support, it gives lots in return. For some structures, not needing a Ground-type can be beneficial, and Zeraora is the only non-Ground Electric immunity viable (besides the very niche Thundurus-T.) Knock Off has proven itself repeatedly to be a fantastic move in this generation. Zeraora is the fastest natural Pokemon in the tier, and all the Choice Scarf Pokemon suck at the moment, giving it an almost unique property. Most importantly, it is the only Pokemon faster than Dragapult, which has now risen to S-rank. Whether Dragapult's checks are "unviable" or "unreliable" and whether it is suspect worthy is a debate for a different thread and time, but I think we can all agree that even though a more consistent Dragapult answer is usually required alongside Zeraora, being able to play more aggressively with your check knowing you can revenge kill Dragapult if necessary makes handling it a lot safer (for example, what happens when you need to preserve Tyranitar for Volcarona or have your Blissey lured in by Superpower Hydreigon?) This is part of the reason people have suddenly started using Weavile and Bisharp again, and Zeraora arguably does this even better as it needs a far less committal move to do it.

 

[Verdas]

This is one of the noms i wanna echo tho only till Mid B rather than B+. Gapdos is hard to fit and lacks longetivity ( same issue as blaziken) but it has its merits, notably breaking past corvi,clef and ferro easily as well as punishing mons like rilla, hydreigon and kyurem. It also have niches over lucha as it's more of a all out attacker than a setup sweeper who doesn't needs terrain and setup to maximize it's potential. Its access to u turn means it can pivot easily as well. I think it needs a raise to mid B rank rn.

S -> A+/A:
Why this mon rose to S but garchomp didn't which is much more of a threat and meta defining rn. S rank was a stretch imo when it has a bad MU against the dragapult, kyurem and hydreigon which are some of the prominent special wallbreakers/sweepers. It also tends to be a rillaboom fodder which is scary as hell.Its still good but it definitely doesn't fit with pult and landot while being higher than chomp,clef and tran who are much more meta defining imo.

A+ -> A:
Yet another rise I disagree with and feel is rather uneccesory. Landot,rilla and chomp are few of the most meta defining mon and it sucks against that. Beiy able to pivot mindlessly and revenge killing pult and other threats is good but it's really hard to use and often has to drop notable MUs. Its not really as splashable as any of the mons in A+ rank either. A feels much more appropriate atm.

A -> A+:
Rillaboom is the mvp of so many matches in my team. Its pretty self explanatory but I'll try to explain it further: rilla is also on the radar for a considersble amount of players, while I don't think it's broken, it definitely says that this pokemon is one of the top tier threats. Look at S to A- rank pokemon and count the amount of matchups it's good at. It also revenge kills a large portion of these as banded grassy glide still deals shit ton to mons they even resist it like pult, who takes over 50% from banded grassy glide or lucha, while straightup ohkoing the frailer ones like weavile (ice shard doesn't ohko and it could act as a lure as it's bulk isn't too shabby either). Also provides recovery to mons like tran and clef who appreciate the grassy terrain recovery alot.

Abt rillaboom too it feels like it either loses to a mon or sraight up beats it. powers through evereything that isnt a check. both banded and lo are rlly strong sets rn and if you assume its banded and it gets an sd off you can be in for trouble.

 

[Ruparajan gaming]

Why is slowking that high?

 

[JTD783]

Why is slowking that high?

copy/paste of Finch's VR update post on page 33:

• from A+ to S: Slowking was UU in GSC, UU in ADV, NU in DPP, RU in BW, RU in ORAS, NU in SM, and... S rank in OU in SS. With the departure of Pursuit and change of Teleport's effect, Slowking has made one of the most unlikely intergenerational improvements in tiering and viability in the history of competitive Pokemon. Slowking is a respectable defensive presence that matches-up well with Heatran, Nidoking, Tapu Lele, and Urshifu-Rapid as is, but Teleport allows it to stomach a hit or two from virtually any opposing Pokemon lacking a super effective STAB and get in a less durable teammate that will instantly be positioned to make some progress. This coupled with the potential of preceding this pivoting with Future Sight, which can negate defensive counterplay from the opponent, makes Slowking one of the most effective Pokemon in the metagame. Unlike other walls, Slowking is able to avoid passivity due to being a pivot, threatening Scald burns, and the looming threat of Future Sight. Unlike other pivots, Slowking has a good defensive outlook and it is a practical option in the metagame as is. Overall, Slowking is one of the most common and consistent Pokemon in the tier, distancing itself from Slowbro in recent months due to it covering more in the teambuilder as it stands.

Tl;dr it's the best defensive pivot in the tier and checks many prominent attackers that are otherwise hard to deal with. And because Regenerator + Future Sight + Teleport is an incredibly good combo.

 

[Hikari no tsubasa]

Excuse me but I have a few questions about the tire list after I had seen it.

First is why slowking is so high on the list, since I believe i had personally seen more slowbros while playing, and the tier has a lot of strong physical attacker that slowbro can deal with better.

Second is the lowe placemnt of hawlucha and excadrill, I had always thought of those two as very popular aggresive options like unburden hawlucha and sand rush excadrill, both of which are great mons.

Last it will be the placement of kartana in A tier, i saw pokemon such as Kyreum, Toxapex and Ferrothorn, and notice that kartana is also in there, so i would like to ask about its use, i havent seen much kartana usage in the game so far, and i dont think it is not a great aggresive option either because of heatrans.

Sorry if my english is not that great, and i would appreciate a lot if my questions could be answered.

 

[VTaxi]

First is why slowking is so high on the list, since I believe i had personally seen more slowbros while playing, and the tier has a lot of strong physical attacker that slowbro can deal with better.

copy/paste of Finch's VR update post on page 33:

• from A+ to S: Slowking was UU in GSC, UU in ADV, NU in DPP, RU in BW, RU in ORAS, NU in SM, and... S rank in OU in SS. With the departure of Pursuit and change of Teleport's effect, Slowking has made one of the most unlikely intergenerational improvements in tiering and viability in the history of competitive Pokemon. Slowking is a respectable defensive presence that matches-up well with Heatran, Nidoking, Tapu Lele, and Urshifu-Rapid as is, but Teleport allows it to stomach a hit or two from virtually any opposing Pokemon lacking a super effective STAB and get in a less durable teammate that will instantly be positioned to make some progress. This coupled with the potential of preceding this pivoting with Future Sight, which can negate defensive counterplay from the opponent, makes Slowking one of the most effective Pokemon in the metagame. Unlike other walls, Slowking is able to avoid passivity due to being a pivot, threatening Scald burns, and the looming threat of Future Sight. Unlike other pivots, Slowking has a good defensive outlook and it is a practical option in the metagame as is. Overall, Slowking is one of the most common and consistent Pokemon in the tier, distancing itself from Slowbro in recent months due to it covering more in the teambuilder as it stands.

Tl;dr it's the best defensive pivot in the tier and checks many prominent attackers that are otherwise hard to deal with. And because Regenerator + Future Sight + Teleport is an incredibly good combo.

Literally in the post before your post

Second is the lowe placemnt of hawlucha and excadrill, I had always thought of those two as very popular aggresive options like unburden hawlucha and sand rush excadrill, both of which are great mons.

Yes, both Hawlucha and Excadrill are great options, but not as great as others. IMO Hawlucha and Hyper Offense in general isn’t that good in higher ladder due to the fact that most people would already know how to deal with it. (higher ladder favors more bulky teams, for example bulky offense/balance/stall is used a lot because of their longevity) Excadrill, who is undoubtedly a great mon, has its own niche as a spinner / sand sweeper, but it’s hard to find a slot for it in teams because it auto loses to common OU mons like Rillaboom, Bisharp, and Dragapult.

Last it will be the placement of kartana in A tier, i saw pokemon such as Kyreum, Toxapex and Ferrothorn, and notice that kartana is also in there, so i would like to ask about its use, i havent seen much kartana usage in the game so far, and i dont think it is not a great aggresive option either because of heatrans.

Just because Heatran exists doesn’t mean Kartana isn’t viable. Kartana is still a very good scarfer and can revenge kill a lot of mons in the tier (most notably pult, zeraora, etc.) Kartana is also a great set-up sweeper and does fairly well when paired up with rillaboom (grass spam).

 

[Schpoonman]

Kartana also smokes Heatran with Sacred Sword or boosted Knock Off. Yes, it doubly resists Kartana's STABs, but it can't switch in at all and unless Tran is scarfed (super suboptimal), it can't even force out Kartana unless Kartana is choiced and locked into STAB or Heatran is fully healthy. You just lose against SD Kartana period.

 

[okispokis]

Yes, both Hawlucha and Excadrill are great options, but not as great as others. Imo Hawlucha and Hyper Offense in general isn’t that good in higher ladder because most people would already know how to deal with it. (higher ladder favors more bulky teams, for example bulky offense/balance/stall because of their longevity) Excadrill, who is a great mon, has its own niche as a spinner / sand sweeper, but it’s hard to find a slot for it in teams because it auto loses to things like rilla bish and pult.

Just wanted to add a few more points regarding these two mons.

Hawlucha: The other main issue with Hawlucha, as I see it, is how it is inherently reliant on support to perform its function, which is a factor that will always hold a mon back to some extent; sure, the mons that give it support are all good, but that is actually a double-edge sword since it means your opponent might have their own terrain setter who can overwrite the terrain Hawlucha needs, meaning you have to play really carefully or you'll be forced to go sans-Unburden or pop off earlier than you want. Additionally, Hawlucha's Flying type means that it doesn't enjoy any passive benefits from terrain, so it won't get the priority protection from or passive healing to get out of range of Weavile's Ice Shard, for instance. Hawlucha, as I see it, is the token mon that will either demolish the opposing team or get taken out without having accomplished much, and more experienced players generally prefer something more consistent. That's just the nature of how Hawlucha operates; it is by no means bad, just that it requires the player to be even more careful than usual.

Excadrill: Excadrill can be good, but from my experience it seems to be suffering from several meta trends. First, Sand as a whole seems to be dwindling in popularity right now, as like with Hawlucha the player-base seems to prefer win cons like Volcarona that aren't dependent on constant support to function. Excadrill possibly has it worse than Hawlucha in this regard since without Spin it may repeatedly need to go into the setter to get Sand back up. Second, sweeper Drill has a lot of specific bad matchups; it straight up can't break Corv or Skarm, and without Rock Slide can easily lose the 1v1 with Zapdos (Drill does have a bit of 4MSS, having only 2 slots for all of Rock Slide/Rapid Spin/Toxic/Swords Dance), plus the setters and Drill don't love common breakers like Rillaboom and Urshifu. Third, a lot of Grounds in general seem to be suffering from the dominance of Lando and Garchomp; Hippo is particular seems to really be dropping off lately for being a largely passive momentum sink with subpar utility. Drill at least has Spin and a Toxic immunity, but Lando is stronger, offers more defensive utility with Intimidate, has the coveted KnockTurn and a greater variety of sets to choose from, while Garchomp can use RockySkin to wear down key physical threats or be a more consistent win-con with SD Scale Shot. Drill still has enough things going on to justify its usage, but the meta doesn't love it that much rn.

Now, as for Hikari's point about usage, I want to note that usage=/=viability. Generally these two will line up, as mons will typically see less usage if there are multiple issues that hold them back from being a consistent presence, but there will be mons where these two don't line up; Aegislash, for instance, is fine in the meta, but I've barely seen it at all recently. That doesn't mean it's bad in OU. In the case of the Slow twins, Slowking is overall better since it is better at taking hits from the threats it is supposed to handle (most physical attackers have some way of breaking Bro consistently), but Bro still gets high usage because a) FuturePort + Regen is good and b) Urshifu, one of the few physical threats it does usually handle, is really on a roll right now, so players are going to gravitate towards stuff that can take hits from it when needed. Usage naturally ebbs and flows a lot on a week to week basis; sometimes a mon will be hovering in the top 10 usage-wise, other times it might be fairly uncommon.

 

[gye5]

Slowking to A+, while is very good, and probably our best pivot, it doesnt really check much, it even struggle at checking tran, its good at taking special hits like from specs draga and koko but it also has to watch out from knock off from mons like lando. For me an S mon has to offer more like dragapult that is good at everything, it does it consistently, is like sharing the rank with dragapult is an exageration

 

[Empress Mobile]

Slowking to A+, while is very good, and probably our best pivot, it doesnt really check much, it even struggle at checking tran, its good at taking special hits like from specs draga and koko but it also has to watch out from knock off from mons like lando. For me an S mon has to offer more like dragapult that is good at everything, it does it consistently, is like sharing the rank with dragapult is an exageration

I think this is off base, even though I'm not super firm on S. There is no denying Slowking is metagame defining just as much as the other S mons. The only real thing that would potentially make it A+ instead of S are the competition it receives from Slowbro and its Galarian form, and it usually wins over both of them in the team builder. Its difficulty in checking some threats is hardly an issue. It's a support mon first and foremost, and its main purpose is generating offensive momentum, not walling special threats. Also I have no idea who would ever switch Slowking in on Lando-T, its decently powerful U-Turn is more of a deterrent than Knock Off. Recent trends like the complete deflation of weather HO and new sets being explored for it and some of its best partners in Ferrothorn and Corviknight don't hurt it either. Some mons with a bad mu against Slowking like Tornadus-T are still among the best in the metagame. There's a reason it's considered by some to have the most oppressive presence in the metagame. Saying Dragapult is good at everything is also simply wrong, given its movepool leaves a lot to be desired, its offensive stats are good but not amazing, and its bulk is pathetic. It's no doubt an excellent mon, but it has exploitable weaknesses just like Slowking.

 

[gye5]

I think this is off base, even though I'm not super firm on S. There is no denying Slowking is metagame defining just as much as the other S mons. The only real thing that would potentially make it A+ instead of S are the competition it receives from Slowbro and its Galarian form, and it usually wins over both of them in the team builder. Its difficulty in checking some threats is hardly an issue. It's a support mon first and foremost, and its main purpose is generating offensive momentum, not walling special threats. Also I have no idea who would ever switch Slowking in on Lando-T, its decently powerful U-Turn is more of a deterrent than Knock Off. Recent trends like the complete deflation of weather HO and new sets being explored for it and some of its best partners in Ferrothorn and Corviknight don't hurt it either. Some mons with a bad mu against Slowking like Tornadus-T are still among the best in the metagame. There's a reason it's considered by some to have the most oppressive presence in the metagame. Saying Dragapult is good at everything is also simply wrong, given its movepool leaves a lot to be desired, its offensive stats are good but not amazing, and its bulk is pathetic. It's no doubt an excellent mon, but it has exploitable weaknesses just like Slowking.

I never said switching slowking into lando, first, second knock hurts slowking pretty badly, so you gotta be careful in scenario where lando is in front of slowking. I know that slowking is meant to be a support with port+sight and not like the special wall like blissey is. But S tier though, I mean is not like the only mon that can do that, slowbro does it as well, just that is meant to take more physically oriented hits and glowbro that is more offensesibly treatning.
Talking about dragapult, I have to disagree in some points, it doesnt really struggle with movepool, its specs set hits everything almost with it dual stab, exept bisharp, that takes a lot from it, or just gets KO by flamethrower, u turn for offensive mometun or thunderbolt for mandibuzz and higher damage on pex. Its status+hex set doesnt struggle with coverage much, you chose the status you want to inflict depending on the team, hex, your dragon stab of choice and usually u turn for its last slot. Well when talking about its defenses, its definitely not a bulky mon, but its usually good at taking at least 1 hit when its defensive presense is needed, like urshifu rapid strike, rilaboom, heatran attacks, the slow twins. While is not bulky, it can at least find switch in most games. I wont talk about other sets like dd, because its gonna take more time but what I wanted to said was that draga pretty much does everything alright, mainly specs, that makes sure that teams have to take measure about ghost resist and mons with high spe def, and oh yea that speed tier helps a lot.

 

[Clone]

Man, yall are really disrespecting my boy Slowking. He's the best pivot and support mon in the tier by far, which is why I nommed him for S a few weeks ago. Is it possible that meta trends might shift away from his favor as time passes? Yeah, of course. But as of now, I don't really see why he'd drop, especially after just making S rank. I'm not gonna comment further on this as it's not a nom and I'm not advocating for a rank change, so feel free to read my post if you want my full thoughts.

As far as other mons in other ranks, the only things in the A ranks that look out of place to me are Volcarona, Kartana, and Rillaboom in A. I think they should all be A+

Kartana is a terrifying breaker with a retardedly strong attack stat and a speed tier that's better than 95% of the meta (and can get even better if you use timid SD!!) And can either sweep with SD or punch holes with Band. It's usage is strong in WCoP and sporting a 70% win rate in qualifiers. It pairs well on most balance and offense archetypes and doesn't have too many drawbacks. Yeah if you sneeze on it with a special attack it'll get eviscerated into the wind and it's STABs can be a bit underwhelming at times, but it's strengths should not be underestimated and would be better reflected in A+

Volcarona doesn't need an introduction. It only has one true counter in Heatran, as the other two, blissey and toxapex, lose to safeguard and Psychic respectively. Furthermore, it's defensive typing let's it soft check threats such as Kartana and Rillaboom, while also being one of the few Kyurem counters of you give it minimal SpDef investment (I will die on this hill, fight me). A volcarona left unchecked will 6-0 a team and often times if match up allows it's only a matter of time until the inevitable happens. Personally I think volc is busted but imma keep this thread on track. A+ is much more fitting for the moth imo

Finally, I think Rillaboom might be due for a rise. During r2 of qualifiers in WCoP the boomer had won 7/8 games it was in, and the only loss was to an opposing rillaboom team. It wasn't as strong in r1, but it maintains a 59% win rate regardless. It's not hard to see why. It has the strongest priority in the game, good coverage with Knock Off, Superpower, Acro, and High Horsepower (tho u only need the first 2) and 2 deadly sets in Band and SD. Band is a great pivot with strong priority and knock offs, and nukes anything neutral to Wood Hammer (for instance tank chomp is almost OHKOed). Pair it with a magnezone and all of a sudden corv isn't as safe of a switch in as one might think. SD is threatening too, as it's still strong pre boost and after an SD it has very few switch ins. Add in grassy terrain, and all of a sudden LO recoil is reduced to 4% per turn instead of 10, making it difficult to wear down. Speaking of terrain, common teammates such as Heatran and Melmetal love the passive recovery and reduced damage from EQ, making Rillaboom a great support mon simply by switching in. Granted, Rillaboom has to win terrain wars against the Tapus and is reliant on its terrain for its priority, as well as having a relatively mediocre offensive typing, but I don't believe these drawbacks are enough to outweigh its many positive traits. I believe it's more in line with A+ mons than those in A

In summary:
Stop shitting on
> A+
> A+
> A+

 

[Finchinator]

Slowking received near unanimous (only 1 A+) votes to be S rank. It is one of the few staples of the balance archetype and enables more offensive options than anything else in the tier. The role it fulfills offers unmatched utility combined with a premium defensive presence. The rise to S was absolutely justified, but we will vote on it again like we do most highly ranked Pokemon.

I am a little baffled by anyone claiming Slowbro is better in this metagame. The vast majority of Slowbro usage comes on teams with Blissey; otherwise you are far more likely to see Slowking right now. Slowbro is a good pivot like Slowking, but it does not truly beat a lot of the premier physical attackers, especially with the uptick in Grass and Dark type threats. Slowbro is fine being a few ranks lower than Slowking for now and while the two are similarly functioning Pokemon, claims that they should be ranked the same are shortsighted or uninformed.

 

[Contrary Servine]

My personal issue with Slowking being S rank is not that it isn’t excellent at its job-FuturePort combined with Regenerator make it an great bulky pivot that can help pressurise teams. My issue is more that that’s all it does. The utility the standard set offers is great, but the other two S tier mons, Lando-T and Pult, both have much greater diversity in sets than Slowking does. The only other set on Slowking that’s remotely viable is running Ice Beam over Scald, which isn’t a massive difference and is usually suboptimal anyway. Lando-T and Dragapult on the other hand have incredible set diversity-the most common Lando-T set is defensive with rocks, but it can also run Scarf, Suicide Lead or even Double Dance and has movepool options like Stone Edge, U-turn, Knock Off and Defog that mean it can be tailored to best fit a team. Dragapult meanwhile is most popular for the Specs set, but Hex Pult is also viable and physical sets like Sub DD and even Banded have niches in surprising Blissey. Not to mention the great coverage Pult has access to like Tbolt and Flamethrower which again give it move options depending on team comp. Slowking is just Slowking, it’s very predictable and one-dimensional. I understand the reasoning behind Slowking being S, and it’s obviously better than Slowbro, but it feels more like an A+ mon to me. If the council believe Slowking belongs in S, then ok, just thought I’d give my two cents.

Noms I support:
A -> A+
A -> A+
B -> B+
B -> B+
C- -> C

 

[SLDR]

My personal issue with Slowking being S rank is not that it isn’t excellent at its job-FuturePort combined with Regenerator make it an great bulky pivot that can help pressurise teams. My issue is more that that’s all it does. The utility the standard set offers is great, but the other two S tier mons, Lando-T and Pult, both have much greater diversity in sets than Slowking does. The only other set on Slowking that’s remotely viable is running Ice Beam over Scald, which isn’t a massive difference and is usually suboptimal anyway. Lando-T and Dragapult on the other hand have incredible set diversity-the most common Lando-T set is defensive with rocks, but it can also run Scarf, Suicide Lead or even Double Dance and has movepool options like Stone Edge, U-turn, Knock Off and Defog that mean it can be tailored to best fit a team. Dragapult meanwhile is most popular for the Specs set, but Hex Pult is also viable and physical sets like Sub DD and even Banded have niches in surprising Blissey. Not to mention the great coverage Pult has access to like Tbolt and Flamethrower which again give it move options depending on team comp. Slowking is just Slowking, it’s very predictable and one-dimensional. I understand the reasoning behind Slowking being S, and it’s obviously better than Slowbro, but it feels more like an A+ mon to me. If the council believe Slowking belongs in S, then ok, just thought I’d give my two cents.

Noms I support:
A -> A+
A -> A+
B -> B+
B -> B+
C- -> C

You're right, Slowking runs the same 4 moves and you always know what it does. However, this thing Slowking does is so, so, so good you can't put it lower than S in my opinion. You said it yourself: Slowking is a sturdy defensive pivot that can help offensively. If there is a perfect Pokémon, this comes really close to it. Good defensive and even better offensive utility, coupled with passive and active longevity AND slow pivoting. That's incredible.
Also, Slowking happens to be one of the most splashable mons in the tier and its predictable antics allow frailer or just powerful breaker to have perfect positioning with slow pivot and future sight pressure

 

[Magcargo]

My personal issue with Slowking being S rank is not that it isn’t excellent at its job-FuturePort combined with Regenerator make it an great bulky pivot that can help pressurise teams. My issue is more that that’s all it does. The utility the standard set offers is great, but the other two S tier mons, Lando-T and Pult, both have much greater diversity in sets than Slowking does. The only other set on Slowking that’s remotely viable is running Ice Beam over Scald, which isn’t a massive difference and is usually suboptimal anyway. Lando-T and Dragapult on the other hand have incredible set diversity-the most common Lando-T set is defensive with rocks, but it can also run Scarf, Suicide Lead or even Double Dance and has movepool options like Stone Edge, U-turn, Knock Off and Defog that mean it can be tailored to best fit a team. Dragapult meanwhile is most popular for the Specs set, but Hex Pult is also viable and physical sets like Sub DD and even Banded have niches in surprising Blissey. Not to mention the great coverage Pult has access to like Tbolt and Flamethrower which again give it move options depending on team comp. Slowking is just Slowking, it’s very predictable and one-dimensional. I understand the reasoning behind Slowking being S, and it’s obviously better than Slowbro, but it feels more like an A+ mon to me. If the council believe Slowking belongs in S, then ok, just thought I’d give my two cents.

Noms I support:
A -> A+
A -> A+
B -> B+
B -> B+
C- -> C

Assault Vest Slowking hasn't been too bad from my experience (shoutouts to Blimax for the set). You have to sacrifice Teleport and HDB, but being able to phase out checks Hydreigon, Kyurem, and other Slowking with Dragon Tail and dealing heavy damage to Grass-types with Flamethrower are some nice advantages over the standard set. I like this set a lot more in the Heatran Match-up, since you can phase it out before Toxic / Magma Storm deal too much residual damage and you actually deal decent damage to it with Scald. Future Sight + Dragon Tail is also a neat combination to screw over the opponent's usual counterplay to Future Sight.

 

[ausma]

Hello, gaming friends; do I have a little something for you! I'd like to bring to surface a Pokemon that I picked up using as a bit of a joke, but have been unironically impressed with regarding its weirdly sound role compression on offensive teams.



I would like to nominate Noivern from UR to C- or C.

Noivern is a very strange, but oddly unique Pokemon with a lot of different traits that allow for it to stand out among others in the tier. Between its very great speed tier, access to U-turn , and most notably its defensive typing, movepool, and longevity, it is a fairly decent albeit niche response to Pokemon like Urshifu-R and Volcarona, with additional utility in besting Rillaboom and checking Heatran. Similar to my nomination for Lycanroc-D back in December, given that Noivern is a Pokemon that's currently unranked and has seen 0 decent level usage, I would like to break down its different unique attributes that I believe make it worthy of a nomination.

1: Defensive typing and longevity

These caveats are probably the main reasons I see Noivern as being worthy of a nomination. Although Dragonite does its job a lot better defensively, Noivern's ability to resist both of Urshifu-R's main STABs alongside a U-turn resistance and longevity to utilize upon a switch allows for it to take advantage of Urshifu-R for a pivoting opportunity, which can pair incredibly well alongside other offense staples like Slowking that otherwise have a notably hard time checking Urshifu-R repeatedly due to its U-turn weakness. This defensive typing also has great utility in the Volcarona matchup, boasting a coveted resistance to both of its STABs. However, these resistances would be meaningless without Noivern's access to Heavy-Duty Boots, Roost, and a legitimately great speed tier to let it serve as a solid offensive check to two fairly dangerous Pokemon with added utility in certain other matchups. In comparison to probably its greatest form of competition--Dragapult--Noivern's access to longevity is a pivotal draw that lets Noivern take advantage of its Dragon typing far more consistently than its competitor, which can be invaluable in letting it provide an offensive check to Urshifu-R, Volcarona, and Rillaboom that can last throughout the game without fearing chip damage anywhere near as much.

I would like to also mention that Noivern without defensive investment takes more from Choice Band Urshifu-R than it can heal off. While this can be a concern if Noivern is too chipped, this damage is only the case if Urshifu-R is Choice locked, meaning that Noivern with its greater speed tier can easily retaliate with an attack of its own to take advantage of Urshifu-R's middling Special bulk, pivot, or--unlike Dragapult--heal on the forced switch to keep Urshifu-R in check. This interaction operates somewhat similarly to Dragapult, however with the added option of healing to keep the process reliable throughout the game.

2: Movepool

Noivern's movepool is very impressive, from options like Flamethrower and Focus Blast to Taunt, Toxic, and Defog, Noivern has quite a few options to toy with that further cement its niche from Dragapult as a speedy Dragon-type with U-turn. Taunt and Toxic among these are the most notable. In addition to being able to immediately put a stop to Volcarona before it can run through teams, it also boasts a typing that serves it just as solidly offensively as it does defensively, which is of note due to Noivern's access to Taunt letting it actually beat Volcarona on the special side with Hurricane even with Quiver Dance boosts. Toxic is also insanely cool as a way to instantly put a stop to Volcarona no matter what shenanigans it wants to pull against you, as Infiltrator lets it bypass Safeguard with no sweat, which is something Dragapult does not have. Toxic and Taunt both work interchangeably to a similar effect, with Taunt having added utility in checking Special walls indiscriminately on switch-in.

3: Speed tier and U-turn

This is where its utility in comparison to Dragapult starts to diverge a bit more noticeably. Noivern cannot afford a Choice Specs nor does its secondary STAB have anywhere near as much spammability as its Shadow Ball, but it does still play well into a major reason Dragapult succeeds as an offensive threat. Similar to Dragapult, Noivern has a very fast U-turn and invites in bulky Fairy-types and common Special walls designed mainly for Dragapult, which makes it a similarly fantastic abuser of U-turn similar to Dragapult, with much less of the punch Dragapult has that makes it the threat it is. Because of this, Noivern pairs fairly well with very similar offensive threats, such as Urshifu-R or Kartana, which can help it overload a lot of threats that trouble it, while giving them many opportunities to attack.

In my eyes, its Speed tier and U-turn makes it a viable pick on offenses in the first place and helps to contextualize the previous two points' magnitude in relativity to its role in the tier, though being somewhat niche due to some fairly notable issues it faces.

____

Noivern with these traits 100% makes it viable in my opinion, but the question is: by how much? I nominated it to C- or C because it faces incredibly steep competition with Dragapult, playing fundamentally similar roles that Dragapult simply does far better, with many more consistent options that make it shine a lot brighter offensively, while boasting middling bulk that makes it somewhat reliant on its typing. Furthermore it is very prone to Knock Off which can make it far shakier as an offensive check. However, this is why the UR nomination is to C-/C to reflect these weak caveats.

In spite of its shortcomings, I believe Noivern's access to longevity with its defensive typing alongside its unique support movepool carve it a very slight, but VR-worthy niche for offenses that can help alleviate pressure from Pokemon like Slowking and Scizor while checking several dangerous Pokemon and being a solid enabler much like Dragapult.

Noivern @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor / Hurricane
- Flamethrower / Taunt / Toxic / Hurricane / Focus Blast
- U-turn
- Roost

For those wondering, here is the groundwork for the set that I've been using. Noivern in my opinion does need U-turn to help play more into its role as an offensive check by maintaining momentum for offensive teams, but it can be slotted off for Toxic or a coverage option in a pinch, if need be. Toxic is likely the best substitute as it lets Noivern immediately put a stop to Volcarona regardless of what other options it may choose to run. This also lets it drop off Hurricane and Taunt with far less sweat and play more into its ability to check Heatran and/or Ferrothorn at the cost of momentum.

This can be customized to the needs of your team, as every variant does work to the intended effect.

muh replays

warning: i was testing ideas for the teambuilding lab so you're gonna see a wacky ass team being used here at a subpar elo. in spite of this though they do support my points at their core; proceed with caution.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1348677653 - This battle, although one I lost terribly since Volcarona is Volcarona and since I was running a Noivern set not really minding Volcarona much, demonstrates a perfect situation where Noivern with Toxic or Taunt would have entirely shut it down, as we see a point where Noivern actually gets in.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1348519065 - Highlights Noivern's great pivoting abilities against special walls such as Glowking to help position dangerous wallbreakers such as Choice Band Kartana.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1348657124-gthlq77hvwj40drcpj1igj3yf0ojahlpw - Demonstrates how Noivern interacts with Rillaboom and special walls simultaneously to give Kartana effective wallbreaking opportunities, so much so to where Kartana easily overloads my opponent's team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1348653525-teetcpj9d3n8kg7npet36ksz7f7z76fpw - Although my opponent makes use of Choice Scarf Urshifu in this matchup, we can see how Noivern is capable of deterring it and taking advantage of it for a pivoting opportunity. Infiltrator on Noivern also shows to be pretty handy.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1348686734-idjiszvja58jku4yity0fzsz1ac1pcapw - My opponent here had a very questionable team, but this puts a greater emphasis on how Noivern operates against Choice Band Urshifu-R with Roost playing a key role in the matchup.

 

[Rae]

Howdy! Two quick noms from me! ^^




I would like to nom Urshifu to go from A -> A+

Urshifu-Rapid is absolutely insane right now. With it’s incredible dual STAB moves paired with a Choice Band, it is able to chunk through teams, provide it’s teammates ways onto the battlefield with U-turn and takes advantage of plenty of common Pokemon with its defensive typing and speed tier like Heatran, Landorus-T and Kyurem. Urshifu-R is one of the best wallbreakers and Future Sight abusers in the tier tier right, especially with it being able to make incredibly good cores with some of the top mons right now, such as Tapu Koko, Zeraora and Dragapult. With current SS OU, positioning your offensive threats is absolutely the key to victory, especially with Teleport + Future Sight being incredible. There are obviously ways of dealing with it, like contact effects such as Flame Body, Rocky Helmet and Rough Skin/Iron Bars, as well as faster offensive checks like Torn-T and Kartana but Urshifu is an incredibly powerful force in the tier regardless of this and deserves an A+ ranking.




I'd also like to nominate Dragonite to go from A- to A

Access to Multiscale, a solid typing, as well as an excellent movepool make Dragonite a very solid all-around Pokemon. It’s defensive capabilities with Multiscale paired with plenty of utility moves like Defog, Roost and Heal Bell and solid offensive power allows it to take on multiple metagame staples such as Volcarona, Urshifu-Rapid Strike, Heatran, and Rillaboom. Dragonite’s Multiscale also helps it become an incredibly threatening sweeper, getting almost a “free turn” to set up. Dragonite is an incredibly versatile Pokemon, being able to run an Offensive Dragon Dance set, a Bulky Dragon Dance set and a Utility set, all of which have been gaining plenty of attention and success recently. Though it isn't a massive fan of Ice-types like Weavile and Kyurem, and may find itself in an awkward position without a boost / it's Multiscale intact, DNite is suitable for an A rank.

 

[Zneon]

Hi everyone, been a while since I did a VR post so why not do one, this is mostly going to be me commenting on already nommed Pokemon and maybe adding one or two of my own, anyway lets go.

===

VR nominations

Urshifu-R / Volcarona: A -> A+

I definitely agree with these Pokemon moving to A+, I don't think it needs too much of an explanation but I'll just do it anyway. Urshifu-R pairs well with SOO many Pokemon and while its STAB combination isn't the best, it becomes a nightmare to handle with Knock Off, Future Sight, VoltTurn etc. This Pokemon will always find a way to make progress and with Slowbro dropping off a cliff in terms of usage and viability, walling its STAB consistently is extremely hard and tedious, I feel this is definitely warranted. Volcarona is hilariously dumb, consistent counterplay to it more or less depends on its last move, Blissey beats it if it isn't Safeguard, which in that case Blissey is just completely abused, Toxapex needs Toxic to win vs Psychic Volcarona, the only Pokemon that fully counters it is Heatran, which isn't foolproof either since its super easy to wear down especially when Volc is paired with Knock Off. Volcarona is an absolute monster and one of the most devastating Pokemon in the metagame.

Regieleki: C -> UR

This Pokemon can probably be used as a screens setter for hyper offense, even though its infinitely worse than Tapu Koko outside of Speed and its ability to explode because Tapu Koko is a screener that pivots, prevents Defoggers from doing their jobs more than once with Taunt (which is why explosion is more of a curse than a blessing) and enables Hawlucha, other than being a super fast screens setter that explodes it has absolutely 0 niche and generally not worth using ever, this absolutely needs to be unranked.

Slowbro: B+ -> B

How do you guys feel about Slowbro dropping down to B rank? I'm personally on the opinion that the metagame has been completely against Slowbro for a very long time now and still is, long story short, Slowbro feels like a physical wall that can't check any of our physical attackers other than Urshifu-R, which can just abuse it by pivoting into Dragapult or Tapu Koko. Dark spam has gotten much more common with Weavile and Bisharp rising significantly, it doesn't check SD Garchomp without a Scald burn, Rillaboom is a nightmare for it, Scizor easily abuses it, I could go on and on. Slowbro does have good attributes but it really needs to be paired with something like SpDef Clefable or Blissey since on its own it doesn't do that much as a defensive pivot, thus I feel it should drop but I'm curious to see what you guys think.