Unpopular opinions

I mean just because cases like Brady can afford the multiple games without issue doesn't mean that isn't a concern for other people playing: in TPC's world, you wouldn't see the player for whom this is an issue because they don't get to build the teams that let them participate at a visible level. What if some people can only afford to participate because of the time save on Genning. Being able to Gen a team and play it on a simulator saves on 2 things
  • Money spent on acquiring the old games that several Pokemon are exclusive to (for the sake of argument I am including emulating and trading the old Pokemon up because this still entails external resources even if the Pokemon aren't "generated" outright)
  • Time to iterate on the team, in the form of playing matches, making adjustments, and playing more matches. Resources are available within SV but they're not bottomless, and things like Tera Raids to restock on them is a time sink if your expense exceeds your supply.
Time spent playing for resources and THEN testing the team as opposed to jumping straight to the latter is still an expense, whether that's time they'd prefer to spend on other hobbies/family, or perhaps they need to work a job that doesn't spare them enough attention to do grind busywork simultaneously.

Yes, Pokemon fans who play VGC do not have accessibility issues, but I think the causal relationship is being reversed here: the inaccessibility without Genning is why the playerbase is mostly middle-class people who can buy multiple games and spare that time.

Imagine an in-person Fighting Game Tournament in which each competitor had to unlock the character they wanted to play on their copy before participating, or had to complete Arcade move to change something like an assist character or Super Move choices. Individual iteration isn't a large time expense, but the amount of times one would have to do that to experiment and then practice before arriving at their choice would add up to untenable amounts of time for a hobby even with a prize pool, much less something played mostly as a large-scale hobby like Pokemon.
 
that's not the reason why
literally almost if not all high level vgc players are middleclass people who can afford to travel out to a fucking videogame tournament with a low prizepool that can threaten to end your run with just some bad luck

the discussion on twitter got reignited because the genning was made for the reasons I stated. it's also extremely disingenuous and shitty to just go "well they have the money for it"

1. vgc is not an adult only tournament. there are kids and teens that play these games that don't have the freedom to just spend more money on buying games for competitive pokemon, even if their parents are well off.
2. people from different countries have different prices they must pay. in brazil, for example, a pokemon game is around 300+ brl, around 1/3rd the minimum wage.
3. people save for things. they dont have to be middle wage to save for a trip, poor people can travel too boss
4. why are we ignoring the people that want to play vgc but are already priced out of it? why do we want to make it harder for them? out of petty spite to some random who didn't use his middle class dollars to buy pokemon swsh?

the fact is that pokemon is artificially making vgc more and more expensive (and difficult) to participate in, and the answer shouldn't be "who cares they can pay", it should be to make things more accessible lol?

it's also stupid to go "but you're getting an actual game so it's ok". not only this ignores that it makes it awful for any vgc newcomers, but if someone wanted to play swsh... they would have bought swsh? these people most likely aren't going to buy these games and go "wow I can't believe this amazing experience was lost to me! thank you pokemon company for forcing me to buy this game!", they're going to buy it, grind for the legends and then put the game down. It's artificially inflating sales price.

imagine if to get the old characters of smash ultimate you had to buy ssb4 and then unlock them there and transfer them to ssbu. insane
 
You know, this is fair and all, but you speak as if people playing the various TCGs don't have to spend significant money to keep their collection up to date, on top of having to deal with banlists suddently invalidating cards you may have spent several hundred bucks on.

Like, I get that most other videogames don't require monetary investment other than "buy the current videogame", but having to invest money to keep up with collectible competitive games isn't *exactly* a new concept and Pokemon isn't isolated in it.
 
You know, this is fair and all, but you speak as if people playing the various TCGs don't have to spend significant money to keep their collection up to date, on top of having to deal with banlists suddently invalidating cards you may have spent several hundred bucks on.

I think the main difference is of a videogame vs a trading card game. the whole point of trading card games truly is just buying packs over and over, its extremely telegraphed and people who want to play competitively are often aware of it. For maingames, your roster can and should be available for purchase in the game youre playing, and at worse dlc for the same game (there's already discussions of dlc characters and how much pay to win can a dlc be. I think it's an interesting one too).


I still think theres some scummy factors on it though, and we can talk about multiple things that may be unfair, innacessible etc. Honestly, I'd love to hear more about it from players.
 
I completely understand the desire to skip the grind -- life is short, and spending it soft reseting for things like 0 speed IV Enamorus, 0 atk IV Heatran etc, does not seem like the best use of one's time on this rock.

At the same time, whether or not one agrees with TPC's rules on the issue, I think it's fair for TPC to enforce its rules on genning, especially when they specifically reiterated they would be checking for hacked mons ahead of the event (which is taking place in a country with strict laws on modifying games). Ignoring the warning because they have been lax in the past is a risk some players choose to take, and it didn't work out this time around.

I find the responses of some of those who were DQ'd or are in general in favor of genning to be coming off as rather... entitled. That sort of raw reaction is understandable enough in the immediate wake of a disqualification, but this also came up time and time again when Kaphotics would analyze rental code teams. "Everyone does it, it's not fair to DQ a few people and not everyone" "it's just a waste of time," "it offers no competitive advantage," "I didn't realize Ray Rizzo won VGC 3 times because of his egg hatching skills," etc. Again, while many of the reasons for preferring to gen over grind are understandable, I don't think they constitute any kind of moral justification for breaking the rules that some players seem to act like it does. It's just a risk they take and they got burned this time. If I get a speeding ticket because I got caught and other drivers didn't, I will be grumpy about it, sure, but I knew that driving at what I think is a still safe speed above the speed limit, getting a ticket is a possibility even if I've never gotten one before.

There is one of the pro-genning arguments that I don't like, though, because I find it to be disingenuous: "genning offers no competitive advantage." I find it disingenuous because it is only true insofar as all players show up to event with optimized spreads or all the mons they want. But events like Regulation D worlds demonstrate explicitly that in some events you cannot reasonably guarantee you will be able to get all of the mons you need with the exact IVs you want by only 'legitimate' play. Players without PLA or SwSh may have a hard time getting Legendaries like Urshifu, Glastrier, Enamorus, etc., and they may also be unable to guarantee they get the right IV spread. And that's the crux: genning or using custom firmware allows you to eliminate pre-game variance that doing things legitimately cannot always guarantee you to do, and that's where possible advantages for genning can arise.

I remember back in SwSh Edu did an "experiment" in which he built an entire team for a Player's Cup from scratch and compared his results to previous results and concluded that using fully legitimate mons did not cause any detriment to his performance results, just wasted months of his life:


However, the thing that irks me about this "experiment" is that this an erroneous conclusion that applies only to the stupidest interpretation of the 'no competitive advantage' claim, which is that hacked mons with legitimate stats are somehow magically superior to legit mons. Of course you should have no advantage or disadvantage if all of the stats are legitimate, the important question is whether your results suffer if you aren't able to grind until you get your 0 atk 0 speed Cresselia and whatever else you need. This is why I find the argument disingeneous: it relies on striking down the trivial worry about hacked mons having jacked up stats and pretends that legit players are always guaranteed to obtain optimal mons, just at an increased time cost.

If someone actually wants to demonstrate that genned mons offer no competitive advantage then the proper way to test it would be to look at the performance of players with suboptimal Pokemon (not completely random stats, but attack/speed IVs or using a suboptimal mon because a better option requires a past game) and show that they do not underperform players with perfect Pokemon. Ideally it would be a blind test so that the Players do not know if they are using a suboptimal vs optimal team, to eliminate the possibility of them playing worse---or more focused---because they're stressed about having suboptimal mons, but I don't think that's possible because experienced players would be able to figure out which type of team they're using by looking at the stats in battle or by underspeeding/underdamaging compared to optimal spreads. More precisely, rather than providing a binary result, one could quantify how often things like not having optimized spreads could turn out not to matter -- e.g., how many games foul play or confusion came into play, and how often having imperfect trick room IVs screws you over. (This could potentially be simulated to get some estimates, though that requires careful consideration of meta trends, because the answer could be very different in Regulation A with Foul Play Murkrow everywhere vs. Reg D with some Hurricane running around or trick room mons like Enamorus and Cresselia).

Ultimately, I think many people on both sides of the issue would agree that GameFreak should really just relent already and make an in-game team builder for competitive purposes. At very least we need a way to precisely control IVs and mons should not be allowed in official formats if they cannot be obtained in-game. SwSh did this perfectly if I recall correctly, I do not know why SV took a leap back in this regard.
 
The baffling part for me is that normally the first VGC season of a generation only uses Pokemon within the games regular Pokedex, so everyone is on relative even ground in terms of accessibility and newer Pokemon can get their moment in the spotlight. That's why remakes, rereleases, and DLC released after the first game in a generation make a point to include a whole bunch of legendaries from all generations, to have a way legendaries from outside of the region are available easily within a generation in preparation for later VGC seasons, hence the Hoopa portals, Ultra Wormholes, Dynamax Adventures, and Ramanas Park. With Gen 9's first VGC season, Pokemon outside of the regular Paldea dex are allowed, which include "minor" legendaries from Sw/Sh, BD/SP, and Legends, so anyone who didn't already brought those games are at a major disadvantage because good VGC Pokemon like Heatran, Cresselia, Landorus, and Enamorus are not available to them. Basically, the devs somehow forgot why they only allowed Pokemon from the current generation to be used in VGC, why they implemented the battle ready system, and why movesets reset when transferring to S/V, to not punish people starting off in the current gen.
 
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I think that the cost and logistics of travelling to another country is a higher barrier for entry to newcomers than buying a Switch and some Pokémon games. Unless TPC gives consoles, games, plane tickets, hotels for free to anyone who wants to play on VGC championships these hurdles will always be present for anyone that wants to compete on those.
 
I mean just because cases like Brady can afford the multiple games without issue doesn't mean that isn't a concern for other people playing: in TPC's world, you wouldn't see the player for whom this is an issue because they don't get to build the teams that let them participate at a visible level. What if some people can only afford to participate because of the time save on Genning. Being able to Gen a team and play it on a simulator saves on 2 things
  • Money spent on acquiring the old games that several Pokemon are exclusive to (for the sake of argument I am including emulating and trading the old Pokemon up because this still entails external resources even if the Pokemon aren't "generated" outright)
  • Time to iterate on the team, in the form of playing matches, making adjustments, and playing more matches. Resources are available within SV but they're not bottomless, and things like Tera Raids to restock on them is a time sink if your expense exceeds your supply.
Time spent playing for resources and THEN testing the team as opposed to jumping straight to the latter is still an expense, whether that's time they'd prefer to spend on other hobbies/family, or perhaps they need to work a job that doesn't spare them enough attention to do grind busywork simultaneously.

Yes, Pokemon fans who play VGC do not have accessibility issues, but I think the causal relationship is being reversed here: the inaccessibility without Genning is why the playerbase is mostly middle-class people who can buy multiple games and spare that time.

Imagine an in-person Fighting Game Tournament in which each competitor had to unlock the character they wanted to play on their copy before participating, or had to complete Arcade move to change something like an assist character or Super Move choices. Individual iteration isn't a large time expense, but the amount of times one would have to do that to experiment and then practice before arriving at their choice would add up to untenable amounts of time for a hobby even with a prize pool, much less something played mostly as a large-scale hobby like Pokemon.
I will make my take clear so there is no confusion, and it will be slightly harsher considering this is a hot takes thread anyways, so whatever. I know this will probably catch some flak.

I do not care about financial accessibility to VGC, nor will I. Because it's not a real esport. There are no stakes. Play on Showdown or gen, I don't care, but I also don't care if Game Freak makes it so you need an old game to get Pokemon in the new game, or doesn't pay for tickets to go to Worlds, or makes it time consuming to get into the game. I don't care. The next season could require a $20,000 entry fee, and I would not care. Why? Because competitive Pokemon is decentralized, and not serious. Any day someone else could just start a new competitive Pokemon tournament with a prize pool and get probably about the same results.

It's not that serious, and never will be. VGC is a marketing expense.

For the record, if you had to grind for characters in a fighting game? I don't care, that's cool if the developers want it and make it a fun game.

The end point of this whole accessibility take is that everything should be free as to remove all barriers to players, but who cares. VGC is not real. The official solution is only accessible via a product, and to participate you have to buy the products.

Out of all competitive videogames, Pokemon is one of the least serious, like period. By the way, if you think TPC/Game Freak do not deliberately allow Pokemon Showdown to exist, you are being fooled.

To get slightly political, I am anti-capitalist. But I do not hate on the players. I hate on the game. I think that what TPC is doing is bad, but I just do not care, and neither should you, it is a waste of energy. Competitive scenes should do everything in their power to ignore and separate themselves from what companies who only see them as a marketing expense want them to do. The official solution does not matter.

Something that isn't a waste of energy is talking about the thing that the actual game developers have more agency over, and that is how they design the game. Because even if VGC spontaneously combusted tomorrow, in-game tournaments would still have a genning debate.

My dog in this fight is not the accessibility argument, but the game design argument. It is not bad game design to require grinding for PVP. Period. Pokemon Sword and Shield's PVP, for instance, is not badly designed. There are minor errors such as no 0IV item, but overall the PVP gameplay loop is in my opinion well designed. Having to explore the game world and mechanics outside of just the battles, is not bad game design. Having to breed is not bad game design.

These games are more cohesive by telling players that if they want to get the best Pokemon, they interact with different systems. Go breed, go do Raids, go do Battle Dungeon or whatever the fuck it is called except in SV, an unfinished game. Go get some money by doing X, Y, Z. Figure out the best odds of this and assess your strategy of how to efficiently get your things done, go actually collect them.

It can be immensely satisfying and rewarding, and make it more enjoyable all around to use your party. That is why my problem with genning is not that it exists or makes the game more accessible, it's that the people who advocate for it actively deny the fact that other ways to play the game, and design the game other than straight up doing Pokemon Showdown officially, is bad game design. It is not.

I do not think that people who do not want to gen and people who want to gen should be forced to compete with each other. I think that preparation is in fact a skill that effects the game, even inside of the actual match. Time to learn matchups, pilot, make tweaks is something that matters much less when you have way more time. I do not think that one philosophy is simply superior. I do not think Pokemon is stronger as an overall package when you can just skip everything and play the game with spontaneously created Pokemon. I do think that Pokemon should have options to support both playstyles.
 
You know, this is fair and all, but you speak as if people playing the various TCGs don't have to spend significant money to keep their collection up to date, on top of having to deal with banlists suddently invalidating cards you may have spent several hundred bucks on.

Like, I get that most other videogames don't require monetary investment other than "buy the current videogame", but having to invest money to keep up with collectible competitive games isn't *exactly* a new concept and Pokemon isn't isolated in it.
To extend the tangent a little further, I find the high emphasis on card pricing is the main thing keeping me out of TCGs as a hobby. When I'm trying to relax by making weird gimmick sets, real-world money is the last thing I want to think about.
 
There is one of the pro-genning arguments that I don't like, though, because I find it to be disingenuous: "genning offers no competitive advantage." I find it disingenuous because it is only true insofar as all players show up to event with optimized spreads or all the mons they want. But events like Regulation D worlds demonstrate explicitly that in some events you cannot reasonably guarantee you will be able to get all of the mons you need with the exact IVs you want by only 'legitimate' play. Players without PLA or SwSh may have a hard time getting Legendaries like Urshifu, Glastrier, Enamorus, etc., and they may also be unable to guarantee they get the right IV spread. And that's the crux: genning or using custom firmware allows you to eliminate pre-game variance that doing things legitimately cannot always guarantee you to do, and that's where possible advantages for genning can arise.
The thing is, the existing rules don't actually require you to put in any work. You're allowed to have friends just trade you everything; genning doesn't really offer a competitive advantage over that. It's perfectly justifiable to be upset when you're punished for doing something that is functionally basically the same as something which is explicitly allowed.
 
What's really ironic is that 90% of this genning issue is doing to 0 IVs.

They've gone so far to make obtaining legitimate competitive pokemon quick (currently it takes uuuh 5 mins to make a competitive team if you've got an advanced SV save), but we're *still* missing 0 IV bottle caps...
Either remove 0IV or make it easier to obtain, I'd genuinely rather start with 0x6IV and use bottle caps than start with 6IVs for some Pokemon under the current system
 
They've gone so far to make obtaining legitimate competitive pokemon quick (currently it takes uuuh 5 mins to make a competitive team if you've got an advanced SV save), but we're *still* missing 0 IV bottle caps...

I don't know how attuned they are to meta specifics such as 0ivs. Maybe? But also I wonder if the devs think all pokémon are better as 6iv. Evs are limited so it makes more sense to make resetting items for them, but if you aren't super attentive, you might miss 0iv plays.
 
Illusio isn't that bad of a map. Sure it does feel like you have to rely on the warps to be the right color to get your way but in all my years playing Conquest I don't think I've ever had any real issue with it. Never really had a game where I nearly lost due to wasting enough turns waiting on warps to be the right color. On another note, there are many alternative pathways you can take if you don't want to rely on the warps, just so you'd be able to get to the destination you want in an appropriate amount of turns anyway. I honestly believe this is the 2nd best and 2nd most competitive banner map in Pokemon Conquest, behind Viperia.

Terrera on the other hand is a much worse map because the game is strongly determined by wind gust RNG and against NPCs it becomes the freest win ever. Wind gusts activate the first time a Pokemon gets on a Lift to the top of a tower. You can exploit that by simply getting near every lift and waiting for the opposing team to hop on a lift first. They get knocked down, and any 3 of your Pokemon near the lifts can immediately lunge in and win.

Pugilis is pretty nasty because it's either extremely overcentralized around Flying-types (a lot of maps in this game kinda are tbh) or it comes down to who can knock everyone's Pokemon off the ring and create a blockade first. You can just knock everyone's Pokemon out of the ring and collect all the banners. The win condition is to hold each banner for 5 turns straight. There are two entrances to the ring you can block if you have a stackload of healthy Pokemon available. Against AIs in the game you really just need to block one of them with a Pokemon or three and you automatically win the game.

Greenleaf is one of the worst maps of the game because it's either extremely overcentralized around Flying-types or is the much worse alternative of being incredibly volatile. You can straight up lose games due to trap hax if you are that unfortunate, since the map gives 15 turns at most, there are multiple traps placed near banners at random spots, and falling into one of them locks you in place for a full 3 turns each.

Spectra can be annoying but worked around with Oichi + Jigglypuff Charm, held items given to warriors prior to battle, and many other warriors capable of curing allies of various status ailments. You can also just have a Pokemon serve as fodder to take every wisp if you aren't using the Jigglypuff, and it's usually not that big of the deal. Spectra is often regarded as being among the worst maps in the game but I don't think it falls under this in the long run since there's a lot you can do to play around those wisps. The status however, are still pretty annoying.

Valora sucks. Worst map of the game. Map is way too big so if you have a high range Pokemon (especially Flying-type), you can easily stall the game out of maximum turns and win off that alone. Otherwise, there are robots placed on several locations of this map that activate a crane when it detects someone's Pokemon, then moves said Pokemon to a completely random spot in the game. There are times where it can easily put that Pokemon in a spot where it cannot do anything for the rest of the game and you can just automatically lose because of that. Flying-types are the only Pokemon who can fully avoid this. The rest are screwed.

Avia is also not a good map since it's probably the biggest map in the game. A map noticeably too big for its own good here. Pokemon of high range (especially Flying-types) have no issue stalling the game out of maximum turns, since many other Pokemon are unlikely to reach them.
 
Illusio isn't that bad of a map. Sure it does feel like you have to rely on the warps to be the right color to get your way but in all my years playing Conquest I don't think I've ever had any real issue with it. Never really had a game where I nearly lost due to wasting enough turns waiting on warps to be the right color. On another note, there are many alternative pathways you can take if you don't want to rely on the warps, just so you'd be able to get to the destination you want in an appropriate amount of turns anyway. I honestly believe this is the 2nd best and 2nd most competitive banner map in Pokemon Conquest, behind Viperia.

Terrera on the other hand is a much worse map because the game is strongly determined by wind gust RNG and against NPCs it becomes the freest win ever. Wind gusts activate the first time a Pokemon gets on a Lift to the top of a tower. You can exploit that by simply getting near every lift and waiting for the opposing team to hop on a lift first. They get knocked down, and any 3 of your Pokemon near the lifts can immediately lunge in and win.

Pugilis is pretty nasty because it's either extremely overcentralized around Flying-types (a lot of maps in this game kinda are tbh) or it comes down to who can knock everyone's Pokemon off the ring and create a blockade first. You can just knock everyone's Pokemon out of the ring and collect all the banners. The win condition is to hold each banner for 5 turns straight. There are two entrances to the ring you can block if you have a stackload of healthy Pokemon available. Against AIs in the game you really just need to block one of them with a Pokemon or three and you automatically win the game.

Greenleaf is one of the worst maps of the game because it's either extremely overcentralized around Flying-types or is the much worse alternative of being incredibly volatile. You can straight up lose games due to trap hax if you are that unfortunate, since the map gives 15 turns at most, there are multiple traps placed near banners at random spots, and falling into one of them locks you in place for a full 3 turns each.

Spectra can be annoying but worked around with Oichi + Jigglypuff Charm, held items given to warriors prior to battle, and many other warriors capable of curing allies of various status ailments. You can also just have a Pokemon serve as fodder to take every wisp if you aren't using the Jigglypuff, and it's usually not that big of the deal. Spectra is often regarded as being among the worst maps in the game but I don't think it falls under this in the long run since there's a lot you can do to play around those wisps. The status however, are still pretty annoying.

Valora sucks. Worst map of the game. Map is way too big so if you have a high range Pokemon (especially Flying-type), you can easily stall the game out of maximum turns and win off that alone. Otherwise, there are robots placed on several locations of this map that activate a crane when it detects someone's Pokemon, then moves said Pokemon to a completely random spot in the game. There are times where it can easily put that Pokemon in a spot where it cannot do anything for the rest of the game and you can just automatically lose because of that. Flying-types are the only Pokemon who can fully avoid this. The rest are screwed.

Avia is also not a good map since it's probably the biggest map in the game. A map noticeably too big for its own good here. Pokemon of high range (especially Flying-types) have no issue stalling the game out of maximum turns, since many other Pokemon are unlikely to reach them.
I've never played Pokemon Conquest but because it's a hot takes thread I'm just gonna say GRRR you're wrong, what a stupid fucking take, how dare you. God, the nerve. Real Pokemon Conquesters know how stupid this is.
 
The thing is, the existing rules don't actually require you to put in any work. You're allowed to have friends just trade you everything; genning doesn't really offer a competitive advantage over that. It's perfectly justifiable to be upset when you're punished for doing something that is functionally basically the same as something which is explicitly allowed.
Being allowed to outsource getting legitimate mons doesn't make it functionally equivalent to genning, it just adds more steps to the process and adds uncertainty about whether your source actually obtained the mons legitimately. If the mon is legit somebody still had to do the grind to get it, which means they are not guaranteed to be able to deliver.

So, in terms of getting optimal mons that are purely legitimate, the old sources of variance are still all there but now you've added on new sources of variance through the dependability of your source. (Case in point, at least one of the players who got DQ'd claims they tried to get legit PLA/SwSh mons from a reputable source and those mons failed the hack check. Apparently this particular player's version of events is not very trustworthy (see doipy hooves' clarification below)) In most cases I would guess that this outsourcing is more used as a means of getting illegal mons that offer a plausible deniability that the mons are not legit.

In contrast, if you gen it all yourself you don't have to worry about that variance.

If you get someone else to gen it for you then you have some variance in whether or not they made the mon correctly, but you still know that in principle they are guaranteed to get you the optimal mons.

Also, just in case anyone wants to argue that clones of legitimately obtained mons count as legit mons, if two players have clones they can in principle be detected and would be counted as illegitimate (though that would require actually cross-checking teams at events, so less likely to be detected in practice I would guess.)

 
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Just wanted to apologize for some pretty hasty things I said on the topic of genning, I agree with a lot of points you guys made I just think that my priorities in the conversation are different. If you want, feel free to DM me and I can explain what I meant in more detail.

I probably will not talk much more on this subject myself, but what do you guys think about this?

(2) Brady Smith - VGC Corner on Twitter: "Anyone else down to go on strike this upcoming season? If numbers of competitions go down, they might try to come up with a solution to increase player attendance. What we want is genning to be legal. We know that Pokémon can’t do this with the primary genning method being a…" / X
 

I think striking for genning to be legal won't work, no sane company would have a clause that allows cheating and likes, and I'm saying this as someone wh thinks genning is a neutral act and more nuanced than ppl argue about.

HOWEVER they should absolutely strike for the recent awful treatment the circuits have been giving players, and that only now they have started to strike down genning while not offering more accessible features. Also lower the costs of entry if your service is just gonna be bad LOL
 
I think striking for genning to be legal won't work, no sane company would have a clause that allows cheating and likes, and I'm saying this as someone wh thinks genning is a neutral act and more nuanced than ppl argue about.

HOWEVER they should absolutely strike for the recent awful treatment the circuits have been giving players, and that only now they have started to strike down genning while not offering more accessible features. Also lower the costs of entry if your service is just gonna be bad LOL
My take is pretty simple, I think genning is fine but I think it is totally fair to not want people to gen. Yeah there are other things that tbh make boycotting make sense
 
Just wanted to apologize for some pretty hasty things I said on the topic of genning, I agree with a lot of points you guys made I just think that my priorities in the conversation are different. If you want, feel free to DM me and I can explain what I meant in more detail.

I probably will not talk much more on this subject myself, but what do you guys think about this?

(2) Brady Smith - VGC Corner on Twitter: "Anyone else down to go on strike this upcoming season? If numbers of competitions go down, they might try to come up with a solution to increase player attendance. What we want is genning to be legal. We know that Pokémon can’t do this with the primary genning method being a…" / X
As someone who doesn't go to VGC tournaments, I will do my part in this protest and not compete like I've never not competed before.

Overall, this protest might have some merit if it was initiated by someone else who doesn't gen, but because its being done by someone caught with their pants down, it comes off as really petty. I do agree with the goal, but I doubt this protest will gain much, if any traction. There have been a number of other issues that players are protesting against too iirc, so another one would mumble the conversation a bit.

If a mon is able to be legally obtained in-game, then idgaf if it's genn'd or not. Genning is 10x more efficient in terms of time, resource management, and actually spending time competing in a tournament instead of doing a 20h+ grind that will require more hours spent on tweaking parameters like Tera type, EVs, building new Pokemon, applying PP Ups if possible (though tbf PP doesn't really matter in a 3v3 or 4v4 env all that much barring some fringe cases), etc.

I think the TPC will probably introduce an easy to earn currency in the DLC to make it easier to build mons, which likely won't be as efficient as genning, but will still make it more efficient to build teams on the fly with random mons you catch. Players will complain they are paywalling this feature, which is fair, but a one time purchase of 30$ for a game competitive players will be spending 100s hours isn't that big of a cost imo. Then again, for me, the value of money isn't that high in my current position so I am 100% in the minority here.
 
For people to understand why I talk about the price a lot:

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You know, this is fair and all, but you speak as if people playing the various TCGs don't have to spend significant money to keep their collection up to date, on top of having to deal with banlists suddently invalidating cards you may have spent several hundred bucks on.

Like, I get that most other videogames don't require monetary investment other than "buy the current videogame", but having to invest money to keep up with collectible competitive games isn't *exactly* a new concept and Pokemon isn't isolated in it.
Not that the system for TCGs is justified or should be, but at least getting cards efficiently just involves a quick trip to TCG Player to buy them all and waiting on the mail. You can still do your life or practice on sims or with proxies until then.
 
"SS" is a fucking terrible acronym for sword and shield that is literally deadass only used by smogon players


everywhere else I see people use SWSH, especially because "SS" means "Soulsilver" to 99% of people who play shit outside of Smogon

"I'm playing SS" "oh cool did you pick cyndaquil" is how I see people talk about soulsilver

speaking of, four letter acronyms are already used by smogon

"ORAS", when technically "OA" is a unique acronym for the games and therefore is also a valid two letter version. You'd just never see someone use that ever, just like SS outside of Smogon.

SWSH has no possible other meaning, no ambiguity, four letter acronyms are clearly acceptable, SWSH > SS and I will not be taking questions
 
For people to understand why I talk about the price a lot:

View attachment 542116
View attachment 542117
And?

One dollar is about 4,90 reais so base game is about 61 dollars and DLC is about 36 dollars. Pretty much the same price. It could be argued that comparatively it's more money because in general people in US earn more money than Brazilians but being able to maintain a specific hobby isn't a human right, if it's too expensive do something cheaper. Capitalism is bad and DLC should be free but this is a poor argument to justify genning.
 
One dollar is about 4,90 reais so base game is about 61 dollars and DLC is about 36 dollars. Pretty much the same price. It could be argued that comparatively it's more money because in general people in US earn more money than Brazilians but being able to maintain a specific hobby isn't a human right, if it's too expensive do something cheaper. Capitalism is bad and DLC should be free but this is a poor argument to justify genning.

90% of my points in thus convo have been about accessibility and pricing out people/that just because something is innacessible doesnt mean it should be made more innacessible and that there should still be attempts to bridge gaps that the company can easily fix. Genning is a product of its environment but also something im not even focusing on.

also it is only the same price if everything in brazil just converted exactly in usd, which is not true of wages, nor electronics themselves. these games are 1/3rd of a minimum wage, and many can spend a long time saving for them and also saving to participate in the community itself.

but also i beleive there are no poor excuses to genning because genning doesnt need an excuse. I treat it exactly like piracy LOL
 
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