Other Tiers ADV 200 General Discussion Thread

[Reverend]

For anyone interested I've been hosting an RS 200 tournament in my discord and have been compiling the usage statistics and winrates.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...bNQiQYI7fbq7PfL3CRTSvxXIg/edit#gid=1447281434

And I also put together an illegal movelist and role compendium (assumes vanilla RS only, no pokemon box or event moves)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...CmfGUkzu0EIn3oXbrErvTvQ54/edit#gid=2137242699

 

[Reverend]

i have extrapolated from this data that skarmory is pretty good

 

[TrashInsect]

I'd like to leave my mark on this thread by dropping a set that I've been having a lot of fun with recently. Let me present: Lead 4 attacks Alakazam.

Set Here

Alakazam @ Lum Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch / Hidden Power Grass
- Ice Punch

This set eschews boosting with calm mind and replaces it with immediately smashing your foes over the head. Going modest over timid is because you'll be outspeeding most common leads even without the boosting nature, and the ones that will would outspeed you anyway. Psychic and Fire punch are obligatory moves that give you coverage against most of the meta game, and Ice Punch is for scaring leading salamence and other more niche mons like flygon and rhydon. The last move is either Thunder Punch or Hidden Power Grass. Thunder Punch obliterates leading gyarados and does good damage to milotic and starmie which might want to swicth in. Hidden power grass is for dropping lead swampert while still doing decent damage to milo, star, and also lanturne that would want to paralyze Zam. The choice depends on what your team might want eliminated.

I didn't come up with this set, but it's one I've stuck on a few of my teams. Have fun, and may the ladder go up this year lmao

 

[leoperi]

Seems like we arent getting adv 200 ladder or roa tour for this month unfortnately

 

[Reverend]

Well we aren't getting a ladder for this but the revcord tournament officially has one month's worth of usage stats and i kinda gotta tell these numbers at somebody to maybe make myself feel like it was worth it so here you go

preliminary ou/uu lists:

ou

Skarmory
Metagross
Salamence
Regice
Alakazam
Claydol
Starmie
Magneton
Swampert
Gyarados
milotic
Gardevoir
Heracross
Slaking
Dodrio
lanturn
Breloom
Blaziken
crobat
Vileplume
Grumpig
Kingdra
Regirock
Registeel
Dusclops
ludicolo
Hariyama
Flygon
Zangoose
Solrock
Medicham
Glalie

uu

Ninjask
sceptile
weezing
swellow
Walrein
Roselia
Manectric
Rhydon
machamp
gorebyss
Donphan
shedinja
electrode
Shiftry
absol
camerupt
Bellossom
banette
Sharpedo
Cacturne
Ninetales
Xatu
Pinsir
sableye
Girafarig
Tropius
Tentacruel
Golduck
Crawdaunt
Exploud
Kadabra
Trapinch
Relicanth
Muk
Volbeat
Cradily
Altaria
and also everything else i guess

top 10 most used mons

Skarmory (54.9%)
Metagross (52.1%)
Salamence (50.4%)
Regice (44.0%)
Alakazam (30.3%)
Claydol (29.6%)
Starmie (29.2%)
Magneton (27.8%)
Swampert (21.8%)
Gyarados (19.4%)

highest win % for mons brought 10 or more times: Solrock (11-4 record)

lowest win % for mons brought 10 or more times: Weezing (1-9 record)

mons that are undefeated bc they were all brought once: Exploud, Golduck*, Kadabra, Trapinch

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...bNQiQYI7fbq7PfL3CRTSvxXIg/edit#gid=1478038509

* i was the golduck c^:;

 

[Sylveon HRT]

Hi everyone, I'm hosting a tournament over in the ADV 200 Discord for anyone interested
Sign-ups are closing in 10 hours so I'm hoping to squeeze a few more sign-ups in
If this gets enough traffic I'll probably extend the sign-ups by a day but I doubt that'll happen so
Here's the server link, please join and sign up if you want to
https://discord.com/invite/8hPeWC3GNS

 

[DrakeThePokeChamp]

We WILL be there

 

[bingingem]

SAMPLES
Now that ADV 200 has a ladder for RoA Spotlight, I wanted to compile some sample teams to help people get started. So far, I have included the three teams that were posted earlier in this thread. If you have any teams that worked well for you, please post them here and I can include them.

- by Typhlito
- by Earthworm
- by Earthworm

 

[gnore]

• Event moves are able to be passed on as egg moves, so Spinda/Plusle/Minun/Skitty should be able to inherit Wish.
• Seedot line can't merge Amnesia, Talk, or Quick Attack in any way without Smeargle.
• Mawile can't merge Ancient Power, Poison Fang, or Tickle in any way without Smeargle.
• Pichu can get Encore + Reversal from Vigoroth, or Encore + Wish from Plusle/Minun/Spinda, but Reversal + Wish can't happen within 200.
• Spinda can get Encore + Rock Slide from Spheal; Encore + Trick from Kadabra; Encore + Wish from Pikachu; Pass + Trick from Volbeat; & Pass + Wish from Girafarig.
• Skitty's combos of Pass, Fake Tears, Sub, Tickle, Wish, & Psych Up are tough for me to verify legal chains without going down a rabbit hole.
• Wailmer line can get Talk from Whismur through Torkoal, and can chain Talk onto Relicanth then back for Edge + Talk, or get Talk + Curse from Torkoal, but Curse + Talk + Edge is impossible without Smeargle or 386 tutors.
• Psyduck line can get Hypnosis from Spinda & can chain onto Milotic then back for Hypnosis + Refresh, but neither line can get Screen + Hypnosis without Smeargle or Stantler; they can each inherit Screen without Hypnosis (neither can use the TM).
• Psyduck line can get Refresh + Psychic through Gorebyss; Psychic + Screen from Spoink; Psychic + Hypnosis impossible without Smeargle.
• Rhyhorn line can indeed get Curse + Reversal from Vigoroth.
• Spheal line can indeed get Curse + Yawn from Torkoal or Slakoth.
• Roaming IV glitch can also be circumvented with Roaming Battle Tower exploit to get perfect IV Eons.
• If Roaming Battle Tower exploit is allowed, all the pinch berries are obtainable, even without catching their pokemon but just using thief/trick/covet.

Baton Pass has no restrictions, is a clause warranted for this ladder?

 

[Tbolt]

For those of whom are enjoying the May 2025 RoA Spotlight ladder, I will just make a note defining what this month of ADV 200 "is." We (and by we, I mean FrankMarley, dhelmise, and myself) have defined the format of ADV 200 for the purposes of this ladder as the state of competitive Gen 3 before the Japanese release of Pokemon Box. This means that the following Pokemon are legal:

• Every single Pokemon, move, and item available in Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire
• Eon Ticket event
  • This legalizes the Soul Dew and allows the Lati twins to bypass the roamer IV glitch and have perfect IVs. It was hypothesized that Latios could be legalized if it were affected by the glitch (which states that its maximum Attack IV may be 7 and the Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed IVs have to be 0), but with this event legal, it will stay banned from the format.
• The following Event Pokemon released in the Pokemon Center 5th Anniversary:
  • Teeter Dance Pichu
  • Wish Pichu
    • This also makes Wish available to Wigglytuff, Girafarig, Delcatty, Plusle, Minun, Spinda via breeding
  • Charm Ralts
  • Wish Ralts
    • This makes Wish Gardevoir, a special tank with reliable recovery, legal
  • Spite Absol
    • This also makes Spite available to Ninetales via breeding
  • Wish Absol
  • Iron Defense Bagon
  • Wish Bagon
    • Wish Salamence is a decent set in the main Gen 3 OU, and its addition to this format will improve an already good Pokemon

Thus, the ADV 200 of this month's ladder is not truly the same format as those who may be used to playing without these events.

 

[gvmgvm40]

Baton Pass has no restrictions, is a clause warranted for this ladder?

For what it's worth, before this month's ladder, those of us playing on the Discord server a few posts up were using the standard ADV BP clause: 1 passer per team & 1 type of stat boost only. I think the ladder experience would improve if the same clause was implemented. (shoutout dhelmise )

 

[Celdanami]

ADV 200 Lead Metagame Analysis​

With interest in ADV 200 growing and a new tournament beginning, I wanted to share my thoughts on the lead meta in ADV 200 in its current state. With the influx of games, there will be even more development, but here is how I view things currently.

I look at the lead meta in terms of progress-making and denial. I'll sort out the 12 Pokémon I identified as the lead meta into the categories of Progress Makers and Anti-Leads, ordered by significance and viability. Please share your thoughts and let me know if I missed anything you would consider a part of the lead metagame!


Progress Makers
In ADV 200, there is no sand to set and limited utility, like sub pass, leaving spikes, status, and damage as the primary methods of making progress.

1. Skarmory

Is a write-up on lead Skarmory even necessary? Obnoxious bird lives a hit from everything that’s not stab fire or electric and gets a spike down. It also shuts down any CB mons and forces the mag question immediately, allowing for decisive and proactive gameplay for anti-trap strategies.

2. Salamence

Salamence is the benchmark to which the entire lead meta warps. Every lead mon seeks to either outspeed and threaten Salamence, or survive its Roladex of damage options to threaten with supereffective damage or utility. Suffice to say, few Pokémon meet these qualifications, making Salamence one of the most effective lead mons in ADV 200.

Mixed Salamence uses its coverage to threaten nearly every lead. Choice band Salamence uses its incomparable power to threaten big damage. Unrevealed, both sets use the threat of the other, further increasing Salamence’s potential as a lead Pokémon.

Notes: Charcoal for Metagross. Hydro Pump is valuable coverage and sometimes justifies a full special Salamence.

3. Metagross

Choice Band Metagross and Mixed Metagross offer exceptional value in the lead slot. Although band sets must be wary of magneton traps, Metagross uses its incredible bulk and typing, alongside its game-breaking Meteor Mash, to begin matches with unparalleled power hits. Mixed sets, benefiting from the threat of CB sets, are excellent at landing powerful hits onto steels and waters that switch in to tank Metagross’ moves.

Notes: Pursuit for Alakazam, HP Electric for Gyarados & Skarmory, Sludge Bomb for Ludicolo.

4. Milotic

Milotic’s capacity as a lead Pokémon is often understated. With extraordinary defences, recovery, status cure, special attack, ice coverage, and a variety of double status options in toxic, hypnosis, and dragon breath, Milotic is a superb lead Pokémon. Even its anti-leads, such as Manectric, must respect its mirror coat.

5. Regirock

Much like Metagross, Regirock offers immediate power and trading capacity with a few unique differences: Focus Punch, Superpower, and Explosion. Unlike Metagross, Regirock matches positively in to Salamence and Gyarados. Although its boom does not OHKO Skarmory, the threat of a Houdini boom or super-effective rock/fighting damage forces big damage on Skarmory early in the early game.

6. Registeel

While lead CB Registeel must be respected, lead Registeel is most effective at denying powerful threats their ohkos and spreading toxic and paralysis.


Anti-Leads

Anti-leads are pokemon that deny progress and force switches through a combination of mixed damage, utility, speed, and high power.

1. Starmie

Starmie is the number one anti-lead, so superior in this role it could be considered a progress maker itself. Starmie has one of the highest lead usage rates. It possesses nearly all the desirable traits of a perfect lead. Starmie’s coverage allows it to immediately threaten everything slower than it. Its natural bulk and ability allow it to take hits and status from most threats. It limits early spikes gameplans, outspeeds major threats, and tanks crucial hits, making it one of ADV 200’s most prominent leads.

Notes: Modest nature.

2. Alakazam

Similar to Starmie, Alakazam uses its speed and coverage to threaten standard leads. Interestingly, Alakazam benefits most from the threat of its coverage, allowing it to run powerful utility sets, like Trick or Knock Off.

Notes: Modest nature if coverage-based, 304 HP benchmark.

3. Gyarados

While lead Gyarados could be considered a progress maker for its effectiveness at spreading toxic and paralysis, Gyarados’ flexibility, utility, and power make it a unique jack-of-all-trades anti-lead. It can deny spikes and status outright through taunt and threaten massive damage or status with mixed and CB sets.

Notes: Thunder for Skarmory, Gyarados, Starmie.

4. Manectric

With no Zapdos or Jolteon, Manectric rose as the best lead electric Pokémon. Threatening Skarmory, Salamence, and water leads, Manectric uses its speed and power to force early damage and paralysis onto special walls.

Notes: Nevermeltice for lead Salamence OHKO.

5. Gorebyss

Who thought giving a fish performance enhancers was a good idea? Gorebyss has the natural bulk to set rain for itself and begin a match with 4 turns of rain steroid. This lead has horrifyingly positive matchups, which forces Milotic in early, or wears down anything else foolish enough to come in on its torrential damage output.

Notes: Mystic Water for Metagross, Skarmory and Swampert.

6. Slaking

Big damage oonga boonga. Not much more to it really. Lead Slaking is excellent on mixed offence, magneton offence, and probably even spikes stack.

Notes: Hyperbeam Milotic OHKO.


Honourable Mentions & Notable Trends

With no Tyranitar or Snorlax and a plethora of peck Skarmory, fighting-type leads have mostly lost their edge. However, some notable exceptions to this include Breloom, which does have lead spore targets, Medicham, which can use BP to magtrap Skarmory and trade with a handful of others, and lastly, Blaziken, which matches well into the abundance of steel leads.

Stab fire and electric Pokémon have exceptional lead matchups, making them effective anti-leads. Most notable of these is Minun, which has a variety of strategies it can employ in the lead, whether status or baton pass. Ninetales, with 100 base speed, fire stab and double status, acts as an effective progress maker and denier. Electrode, with top speed, stab electric, taunt and boom, is an excellent anti-lead for offensive structures and rain. Magneton, although fishing Skarmory, also effectively scouts unrevealed sets with Protect.

Similarly, Glalie, although fishing Skarmory, has a positive matchup against several common leads, allowing it to advance and deny hazard strategies. And lastly, Gardevoir threatens surprising bulk and power and a utility belt of useful moves to deny or advance progress.

 

[Celdanami]

Too Much Water: An Analysis of the Best Type in ADV 200
​

In my opinion, the twelve Pokémon above are usable in the format. Twelve Pokémon sharing a type in a limited-dex format, all usable in OU: this is insane. I want to take a look at what I consider to be the best type in the format, one that dominates OU in representation. The water type is so exceptional, a team can double or triple them easily. Why exactly is that?

The Many Roles of Water Mons

• Bulky Water: Milotic, Golduck, Walrein, Swampert, Gyarados, Wailord, Azumarill
• Rain & Breakers: Gorrebyss, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Azumarill, Starmie
• Set Up: Gyarados, Kingdra, Golduck, Swampert
• Utility and Support: Milotic, Azumarill, Walrein, Lanturn, Starmie, Ludicolo

As you can see, water pokémon have many functions. They are threats with utility, bulk, or setup. They answer critical components, like dragon dance threats, choice bands, and opposing waters. There is no good ADV 200 team without a water type or a clear answer to them.

Rain Dance

Rain Dance is absurdly powerful. It is, in my opinion, one of the most consistent strategies a team can employ in ADV 200. In a tier lacking the normal-type special walls and limited distribution on immediate recovery, the instant power and speed offered by Swift Swim bulldozes through checks that can otherwise answer special threats, prominently, Registeel and Regice. Gamers will already know that Mystic Water Gorebyss is nuclear and possesses damage calcs beyond reason, threatening OHKOS on multiple prominent Pokémon. And although the other Swift Swim threats don’t reach the same thresholds as Gorebyss, they still force massive damage, drastically skewing teambuilding. As it stands, there is very little reason for balance structures not to run at least one of the rain checks I’ve listed below.

Rain Dance Effects:

• Increases the damage of Water-type moves by 50%.
• Decreases the damage of Fire-type moves by 50%.
• Allows Thunder to bypass the accuracy check.
• Activates Rain Dish & Swift Swim.
• Causes Moonlight, Synthesis, and Morning Sun to recover ¼ of max HP

So, a Swift Swim Pokémon benefiting from rain dance gets 3-4 turns with a +2 modifier to its water moves as well as doubled speed. This is by far the most immediate, albeit limited, power boost in ADV 200. Even Clamperl, when boosted by rain, is a near-unanswerable threat. And not to be discounted, the debuffs are also powerful, protecting targets from fire-type moves, further restricting healing, and buffing paralysis odds.

True Counters & Checks to Rain

With decent gameplay, you can expect your Regi-of-Choice to answer one rain threat. But what about the second, or even just a well-played rain threat? This is something every competently built team must be able to handle. The following Pokémon are not essential to every team, but they are certainly helpful. However, you may, for example, rely on Registeel and/or Regice if you can overwhelm rain teams with tactics like Explosion, Thunder Wave, Substitute pass, or Protect stall. With that in mind, let’s look at the very few checks to rain.

Milotic: Milotic is truly the one Pokémon a rain team wishes you don’t have. With or without Light Screen, the only thing breaking Milotic is a critical hit on Hydro Pump. As such, every rain team will have a dedicated answer to Milotic.

Ludicolo: Rain Dish Ludicolo is a supreme anti-rain tool and a useful special wall. With a movepool to die for, its only limitation is its dependence on Rest to shrug off status.

Gardevoir: With the ability Trace, Calm Mind, Wish and Thunderbolt, Gardevoir is a massive threat to rain teams.

Golduck: Cloud Nine and Calm Mind work in tandem to shut down rain strategies.

Wailord: With extraordinary bulk, water resistance and Roar, Wailord is a useful anti-rain tool.

Kingdra: With a 4x resistance to water, Dragon Dance Kingdra is doubly empowered to dance to infinity on all rain threats, excluding Leech Seed Ludicolo.

Shedinja: What? Yes, it’s a meme. And yes, it answers all rain threats lacking toxic or leech seed. Use it, coward.

As you can see, this list is quite short and also dominated by water types. The limited answers to Rain Dance emphasize how restrictive Rain Dance is on the builder. This, in tandem with the absurd damage calcs possessed not only by Gorebyss, makes Rain Dance a contentious move in ADV 200.

Should We Ban Rain Dance?

Having identified the power of Rain Dance, I wanted to discuss reasonable actions, if any should be taken at all.

1. Do Nothing: Accept that this is a feature of the tier and allow the meta to further develop answers.
2. Complex Ban: Ban Rain Dance on Swift Swim Pokémon.
3. Simple Ban: Ban Rain Dance outright.

Of these solutions, I favour either one or two. But I would love to hear what the community thinks! By the way, the ADV 200 Discord Server just launched a fun new teambuilding competition, and the first prompt is Rain Dance! Come and join to flex your creativity and team building skills, and help develop more team pastes for the community to grow.

 

[FrankMarley]

Gamers will already know that Mystic Water Gorebyss is nuclear and possesses damage calcs beyond reason, threatening OHKOS on multiple prominent Pokémon.

I don't think the wider playerbase fully knows about this yet. Before any tiering action can be done, I think people really need to be made aware of just how powerful gorebyss is first.

Some terrifying calcs:

• 252+ SpA 30 IVs Mystic Water Gorebyss Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regice in Rain: 174-205 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA 30 IVs Mystic Water Gorebyss Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Registeel in Rain: 175-207 (48 - 56.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA 30 IVs Mystic Water Gorebyss Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Metagross in Rain: 351-414 (96.4 - 113.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
• 252+ SpA 30 IVs Mystic Water Gorebyss Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Dusclops in Rain: 201-237 (70.7 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA 30 IVs Gorebyss Hidden Power Electric vs. 68 HP 30 IVs / 0 SpD 30 IVs Gyarados: 309-364 (89 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
• 252+ SpA 30 IVs Mystic Water Gorebyss Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Swampert in Rain: 334-394 (82.8 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is ridiculous, it should go without saying. Gorebyss can just muscle through checks it has no right of powering through. Having a dedicated rain counter might be mandatory in some time, in the same way having a rock resist is mandatory in 386 OU.

Edit: At the recommendation of others in the community I was asked to include Ludicolo and Kingdra calcs:

• 252+ SpA 30 IVs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regice in Rain: 141-166 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA 30 IVs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Registeel in Rain: 141-166 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA 30 IVs Mystic Water Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regice in Rain: 155-183 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA 30 IVs Mystic Water Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Registeel in Rain: 155-183 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regice in Rain: 136-160 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Registeel in Rain: 137-162 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA Mystic Water Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regice in Rain: 148-175 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA Mystic Water Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Registeel in Rain: 151-178 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  

 

[gnore]

i love the double entendre of 386 ADV referring to both the national dex & the speed creep warranted by the inclusion of Aero/Jolt
EDIT: i'm dumb that's 396 lol

also for lead mence, dropping mence's speed to still beat glalie allows enough bulk to even keep the -SpD nature & live +Spe mence Dclaw & reverse Dclaw them

 

[Celdanami]

​

ADV 200: Spikes​

First in my entry of archetype analyses, Spikes! I remember when I first started playing ADV OU, there were loads of well-written and researched resources for team building. I can't offer anything so impeccable, but I want to share my takes on the various different viable archetypes and how to approach building them. A lot of this information is exploratory, and I hope good players chime in for any edits.

The Spikers​

Sorry Cacturne, you suck. Here are the usable spikers in ADV 200 OU.

Roselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Calm Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 180 SpD / 4 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Aromatherapy / Protect / Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Grass] / [Electric] / [Fire] / Stun Spore

Starting off with Roselia, this Pokémon is specially bulky, has surprising special attack, and has a huge package of utility. My suggested EVS optimize Roselia's natural defensive qualties while helping it tank Drill Peck and Earthquake. You could EV to outspeed standard Skarmory, or offensive Swampert.

Glalie @ Leftovers ​

Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD/ 180 Spe
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Icy Wind / Ice Beam
- Crunch / Shadow Ball / Earthquake

Next, Glalie. Glalie is an excellent lead, able to deny and establish spikes, as well as threaten common leads. Icy wind offers further utility to a pokemon that usually does not usually stick around long. I wasn't too sure what EVs to include here as I feel like the team builder has to consider which leads they want to outspeed / tank and EV accordingly. That being said, as Glalie teams want to deny spikes as much as they want to set them, a good minimum speed for Glalie is 263, outspeeding even jolly Skarmory, Metagross and Breloom .

Skarmory @ Leftovers / Soft Sand
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 248 SpD / 12 Spe
EVS: 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
EVs: 236 HP / 176 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature / Jolly / Adamant
- Spikes
- Drill Peck
- Roar / HP Ground
- Toxic / Taunt

Finally, Skarmory. An excellent physical wall and phaser that excels at establishing spikes, despite Magneton's presence in the tier. My suggested EV spreads and natures are build and team specific. To clarify, Jolly Skarmory can run Soft Sand to maximize its odds of beating Magneton. Drill Peck is almost mandatory, not only for fighters, but mostly for Gyarados, which commonly runs Taunt. If not running an anti-trap Skarmory or counter-trap strategies, teams should have a Magneton punish. These are Pokemon that can double in on expected Magtraps and punish them with the threat of super effective damage, status, etc.

​

Essential Components of a Spikes Team​

Although spikes stack teams can vary wildly in structure, they all share certain requirements in the builder. Note, spikes teams require more than the following. These are just the components they all share, from stall to offense.

1. A Physical Wall: Swampert, Donphan, Metagross, Flygon, Claydol, Pelipper, Regirock, Registeel, Wailord, Weezing, Dusclops

2. A Special Check: Regice, Registeel, Milotic, Ludicolo, Gardevoir, Encore Alakazam, Explosion

3. Spikes Abusers & Phasers: Manectric, Ninetales, Wailord, Salamence, Alakazam

4. Supplementary Dragon Dance & CM Check: Metagross, Solrock, Lunatone, Gyarados

5. Magneton Punishes: Magneton, Gardevoir, Trapinch, Ninetales, Sceptile, Camerupt, Gyarados, Salamence

Stall​

Stall structures are largely undiscovered. But there are a few cores we can explore and important features of a stall team to identify. Stall should also always carry spin block and can potentially further protect spikes with Sceptile. Stall structures will almost always include at least one Regi and Milotic, although other bulky waters like Wailord and the aforementioned Walrein also work.

Premier Stall Pokémon​

Milotic: Milotic is stall in ADV 200. The only Pokémon interchangeable with Milotic are Wailord and Walrein, and these structures are very specific. Actually, from now on, just assume that Milotic fits everywhere on spikes builds, even offense.

Claydol: Claydol, with either Rest or Explosion makes obvious sense. Its only real flaw is its weakness to Sceptile.

Donphan: Donphan has surprising tools: Odeur Sleuth, Roar, and Counter. Although it has 4MSS, its a valuable asset to stall.

Sceptile: Acting as both a fast revenge killer and spikes protector with utility in Roar and Leech Seed, and even wall-breaking with Endeavor, Sceptile offers a lot to Spikes teams.

Dusclops: Dusclops is the best spinblocker in ADV 200, with multiple viable sets. A mon you should use almost absolutely on stall. Sorry, Sableye.

Honourable Mentions: Xatu and Gardevoir are excellent for Wish stall. At least one of Registeel or Regice is standard for stall.

Stall Cores​

As I said before, stall is pretty unexplored and I am by no means a stall main. But, these are some cores I've explored. Hopefully, you can see how these teams have multiple variations by adding necessary remaining components of a spikes team I listed above.

• Skarmory & Magneton / Trapinch / Gardevoir
• Skarmory / Sceptile / Regice
• Skarmory / Donphan / Milotic
• Skarmory / Wailord / Double Regi
• Roselia / Walrein / Defensive Salamance

You'll probably notice a lack of Starmie representation. In my opinion, defensive Starmie lost its best tool in Thunder Wave, so it can't answer setup threats like it does in standard OU. Also notable is a lack of a Superman structure. Anyone figure that out yet?

Balance​

Balance structures can look one of two ways: 3 grounded 3 spikes-immune, or, 4/5 grounded with Rapid Spin. Generally, balance teams will include at least one Regi and complete the team with the above Essential Components.

Premier Balance Pokemon​

I won't mention Roselia and Skarmory in this section, but they are the balance-spikers.

Registeel: If you really need some fat goober to disrupt enemy momentum, Registeel is an amazing mixed wall and progress maker.

Regice: Rest, Explosion, or Focus Punch Regice are all fantastic special walls in varying degrees of longevity.

Starmie: Unlike stall, offensive Starmie is the best rapid spinner on balance structures.

Sceptile: Sceptile and Spikes are just a happy union.

Ninetales: Some may disagree with my take here, but Ninetales slots in excellently on so many balance teams with a variety of powerful tools.

Honourable Mentions: Alakazam is one of the best spikes abusers that slots well on balance. Gardevoir offers a similar wincon with greater utility. Claydol absolutely can fit onto balance structures, usually with Explosion.

Balance Cores​

• Skarmory / Registeel / Regice
• Skarmory / Wailord / Regice
• Skarmory / Dusclops / Milotic
• Roselia / Milotic / Dusclops
• Roselia / Registeel / Ninetales
• Roselia / Claydol / Milotic

Balance structures are a lot more flexible in the team builder. I'm sure there are plenty more cores yet to be optimized, but these are all great starting points for spikes teams. I should note though, that I think Roselia always warrants spin block, in part because it can't run Sceptile for Spikes protection.

Spikes Offense​

Spikes Offense has probably the most variations possible, indicating that the ADV 200 meta leans towards offense. Boom Offense with Golduck or Alakazam and a Dragon Dance threat, Calm Mind or any setup spam, and Rain are all excellent structures for Spikes Offense.

Premier Spikes Offense Pokémon​

Again, I won't mention the spikers here, but know that offensive Skarmory and Glalie are the main spikers for this style. Roselia + Gorebyss does work well though.

Gorebyss: If you take a look at the Calcs in a post above, you'll notice that Gorebyss absolutely shreds through the meta with Spikes support.

Golduck: Golduck combines the functions of a bulky water and a wincon, excellent for offensive structures.

Magneton: Removing either Skarmory or Magneton can be essential to a gameplan.

Manectric: If you squint your eyes enough, this is Jolteon! Speed, Roar, even Thief!

Sceptile: Surely he's not going to yap about Sceptile again... I have terrible news. Sceptile + Spikes is too good. Use this Pokémon.

Offensive Spikes Cores​

There are an awful lot of ways you can go about this, but here are a few.

• Roselia / Gorebyss / Metagross
• Skarmory / Regirock / Sceptile
• Glalie / Sceptile / Golduck

And that's by take on Spikes in ADV 200 minus superman and the last of my helpful posts for a while. Hope it helps everyone except my tournament opponents .

 

[cosant101]

RS200 Set Compendium V1.2​

Hello. I realised that I had never uploaded either of the previous set compendiums onto the smogon forums before, and I figured that now would be a good time... one week before the ladder goes offline. Oh well!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jBhSfKRLKBCy4jFSCWWU7a2STzJLbU9517AGDHZgQcs/edit?usp=sharing

A majority of these sets and all of the analyses (currently) are written by myself, with many set contributions coming from other users. A massive shoutout to all who have helped construct this and proofread through all the mons I was more shaky about, especially you Celdanami ;)

If you have questions about any of the analyses, or would like to suggest potential changes or updates, then my contact details are at the bottom of the first tab. Just be wary to fully read through the 'Introduction' tab to ensure everything makes sense in each analysis.

 

[FrankMarley]

The ladder got more games than expected! 6k games is really cool and gave a lot of new data.
I really liked watching the meta evolve over the course of the month; A lot of unexpected mons rose and fell during the month as a result of this metagame still being wildly underexplored.
Sadly, until the ladder resumes, meta development will likely grind to a halt, since only direct matchmaking is possible now.
If you like ADV 200, your best bet to play it until the ladder returns is to join the discord and ask the matchmaking channel for games.
Goodnight ADV 200 ladder. Hopefully we'll see you again soon.

 

[Celdanami]

Interest Check: Seasonal Ladder League + Bot Dev Help Needed

Hey everyone,

We’re exploring the idea of launching a competitive, individual-based ladder league for ADV 200 OU, hosted on the ADV 200 Discord Server and we’d love to gauge community interest before we set it in motion.

What Is It?​

A seasonal ELO ladder system where players can challenge each other at will. Win matches, gain points. Lose, drop down. The goal is to climb the leaderboard each season to earn accolades / seasonal ranks, maybe more! Think Showdown ladder energy, but community-run, ADV 200-focused, with a little extra spice.

The Goal is For This to be:

• Competitive and active
• Low barrier to entry (play when you want, challenge who you want)
• A fun way to keep the ADV 200 meta fresh and evolving

Looking for Dev Help Too​

To make this run smoothly, we’re also on the lookout for any experienced bot developers who’d be interested in helping us build a lightweight Discord bot to handle:

• Reporting match results
• Updating ELO scores
• Managing seasonal resets and possibly even match histories

If you’ve got experience with Discord.py, Node.js, or similar, and love the idea of building something cool for the retro comp scene, reach out!

Join a New Competitive Scene​

Are You:

• A player interested in competing
• A coder who can help bring this to life
• Or just someone who thinks this sounds like a good time

Drop a reply below or come hang out with us in the ADV 200 Discord Server.

Let us know if you'd participate in Discord, or by loving this post!

 

[cosant101]

ADV200: Rain​

I’m following Celdanami to write about other powerful ideas in the metagame, since I think now is the time to discuss the power of rain in ADV200. As of now, rain is one of the strongest offensive forces in the metagame, yet woefully underutilised for how simplistic it is. The core of the Rain Dance dream are…

THE ABUSERS

...or more precisely, Swift Swim abusers such as:

Gorebyss @ Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Surf/Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance/Baton Pass

Gorebyss’ damage output is unparalleled. Any only somewhat offensive rain structure requires Gorebyss to be run due to its sheer breaking power. Its decent bulk allows it to reliably set up a Rain Dance when it’s put in the lead slot. Even if it is massively chipped in this process though, chaining another Rain Dance boost to it is quite easy, allowing it to come in again on the revenge kill or after an Explosion and wreak havoc. I’m a fan of running both Hydro Pump and Surf to mitigate any potential poor luck. For example, as Gorebyss is about to be taken out or rain is about to end, launching the guaranteed chip of Surf is an alright option instead of risking an infamous Hydro miss. If you want to rely wholly on passing Rain Dance turns to it instead, Baton Pass can be quite effective, though I’m personally not the biggest fan.

Kingdra @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Rain Dance
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]/Toxic/Dragon Breath

While Gorebyss is a great threat in the lead slot, Kingdra is much more consistent in the endgame after everything has been chipped down for its Surf or coverage to take out. Even outside of dedicated rain structures, Its typing in the metagame is absurdly untenable defensively, meaning it's much easier to set up multiple Rain Dance with Kingdra than even Gorebyss. STAB Dragon Breath is of note here as a way to check opposing Kingdra while granting this set a tad bit more utility. Kingdra’s main issue is, relative to Gorebyss, it is quite weak. Without Spikes, prior chip, or additional partner I’ll mention later, Kingdra’s rain-boosted damage is not going to hit all the ranges you’d like it to.

Ludicolo @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Surf/Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Leech Seed/Hidden Power [Grass]/Giga Drain
- Rain Dance

Similarly, Ludicolo’s damage output is meagre compared to the likes of Gorebyss. Furthermore, even though Ludicolo’s typing is still defensively apt, having a Flying-type weakness and being susceptible to Metagross’ Sludge Bomb coverage limits it from setting up a Rain Dance on nearly as many mons as Kingdra. However, Ludicolo has the incredibly spammable Leech Seed, putting defensive mons that otherwise stomach rain-boosted attacks repeatedly in an awkward position. Alternatively, STAB Grass-type attacks can threaten the common Water-type switchins more directly. Additionally, Ludicolo’s set variety (which I explore later) means that it’s not as immediately obvious as to what it’ll do when it hits the scene.

There’s other Swift Swim mons, yet they aren’t nearly as easy to use, nor as effective, on average. Huntail gets Snatch, which is quite comedic, but stacking the aforementioned mons is often what will be most effective. Of course, you can’t just build a team of only Swift Swim users and expect it to be effective. To help regain momentum from the opponent’s offensive and defensive force…

THE SUPPLEMENTS

…are your recourse.

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 236 SpA / 20 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Calm/Sassy Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt/Thunder
- Explosion
- Rain Dance

Regice is incredible glue on most teams already, but it acts especially well on rain structures to effectively threaten the mons that can immediately threaten rain structures. Unboosted HP Flying and Electric-type attacks do little into Regice. With the free turns it generates from that interaction, it can effectively threaten with Ice Beam to force more team information from the opponent, or pop Explosion for momentum after using Rain Dance.

Electrode @ Magnet/Lum Berry
Ability: Static
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt/Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]/[Grass]/Mirror Coat
- Rain Dance
- Explosion

Electrode acts similarly to Regice, except obviously lasts a much shorter time on the field. What it lacks in longevity it makes up for in utility. Its sheer speed means that rain teams can both re-establish rain in a pinch, and also threaten STAB Thunderbolt against the many frail attackers that can end up threatening rain structures when it isn’t pissing it down. For all non-UK readers, that is to say when rain isn’t up. Additionally, positive speed nature Electrode outspeeds the common Modest Gorebyss, even if rain is up, making it a potentially useful asset in the mirror.

Claydol @ Leftovers/Lum Berry/Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spe
Careful/Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin/Light Screen/Ice Beam

Claydol is yet another Rain Dance user with Explosion, this time with a useful Electric-type immunity to grant it incredibly safe switch-ins. More offensive rain structures typically don’t rely on using Rapid Spin to clear hazards, and as such, it can be eschewed here for any number of utility or coverage moves. Furthermore, Claydol’s Explosion is much stronger than the previous two entries, allowing it to dent walls such as Milotic to be chewed out by a follow up rain-boosted assault. The main issue is that Claydol and the Swift Swimmers share a common winning matchups into mons like Metagross, and losing matchup into Water-types resistant to Hydro Pump spam.

Volbeat (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
- Moonlight/Light Screen
- Signal Beam

And finally, the little bug that almost could. If you can find the opportunity to pass a Tail Glow, the best receiver typically being Kingdra, then the user is bound to snipe an OHKO or two. The issue is Volbeat has it really rough in this metagame, and finding a safe opportunity to Pass can seem sisyphean. Even with outside support, such as from Encore/Thunder Wave/Substitute/Baton Pass Minun, Volbeat is often more trouble than it's worth compared to simply corralling multiple Swift Swim users.

So, time to round out the team. To no shock, being able to pressure so many defensive checks out, as well as merely forcing as much damage as it does in the first place, is an incredible boon for a plethora of already effective mons in the ADV200 metagame.

THE PARTNERS

Golduck @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Refresh/Hidden Power [Electric]/[Grass]

While not a Swift Swim abuser itself, Golduck is a strong answer to many of the defensive ideas that typically stop rain. Refresh, almost by itself, stifles any sort of defensive Toxic + Recover-esque play the opponent may opt for. With the pressure of Calm Mind bringing up the rear, Golduck can exploit the otherwise stone-walling Milotic for a setup opportunity. This Golduck set in particular may not win the entire game. However, the important thing is it’s another Water-type that benefits from Rain-boosted Surf damage while not sharing the same matchup spread as the Swift Swim users.

Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 236 HP / 160 SpD / 112 Spe
Calm Nature
- Surf
- Leech Seed
- Toxic/Rain Dance
- Protect/Rain Dance/Rest

I mention this Ludicolo set outside the context of the Swift Swim users since it plays almost entirely differently, and in a way more suited for bulkier rain structures. Surf and Leech Seed are non-negotiable. Think of Rain Dance as a steroid that the Ludicolo user can pass to its Swift Swim partners, or as something it can use to pressure with Surf. Toxic and Protect synergise either to create more pressure in Rain, or to gain more recovery out of Rain Dish. Like its Swift Swim counterpart though, for those scary Toxic and Flying-types bearing down on Ludicolo, you may desire:

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Sludge Bomb

Yes, Metagross benefits from the cut to Fire-type damage in rain. More importantly though, it acts as a very sturdy check to offensive mons that rain structures typically struggle against, especially outside of rain. The glaring issue is that it is still thoroughly answered by Milotic. However, the utility of having a sturdy way of breaking past Rest or Protect Regice, as well as Ludicolo with Sludge Bomb, is too good to pass up on for structures struggling with that matchup. After all, it’s not particularly like the opponent will be willing to retain Metagross checks if they have to sack them to Gorebyss Hydro Pump.

So, how to pressure Milotic? Well, one option is:

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Outside of Golduck, the perilous snake is likely a rain team’s best friend in reliably answering Milotic. With its typing and access to Taunt, even if Gyarados can’t perform a full sweep, the pressure it applies to Milotic to stay low and the strength of even an unboosted HP Flying is more than enough for most games. If Gyarados’ main checks are Skarmory, Solrock, and Regirock, then it appreciates how much damage rain can exploit these mons. More than anything though, Gyarados has the ability to force switches without Roar itself, which can be useful with Spikes users.

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Careful/Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Roar/Taunt
- Drill Peck
- Toxic/Hidden Power [Ground]

As perhaps expected, Skarmory is a decent fit for these structures. Swift Swim users have a tendency to force switches quite often, and so establishing Spikes is strong. Drill Peck coverage for opposing Ludicolo is unironically a reliable enough check. I have listed both Standard and YOLO Skarmory EVs to indicate how both are useful. For more balance-oriented rain structures, the longevity of the Standard set and the utility of being able to eek out a Toxic hit on Regice or Ludicolo is invaluable. Alternatively, having fast Taunt to prevent Milotic Recover/Refresh as well as a bevy of other threatening setup attempts such as Gyarados Dragon Dance is potent in supplementing a more offensive rain plan.

Glalie @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD/ 180 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam/Icy Wind
- Toxic
- Spikes
- Taunt

Glalie serves many of the same functions, though is more fitting on teams that omit Regice. An even faster Taunt ensures opposing Skarmory will fail to set up Spikes, while also preventing the common Toxic attempts to ruin Glalie’s day. In short, Glalie will reliably net the user multiple Spikes layers or utility throughout a game if played well. By being so immediately threatening to the likes of lead Salamence while pressuring down Milotic, Glalie does good work to ensure that the backup rain attackers have an easier time cleaving through everything.

Either Spikes user appreciates how little opportunity rain abusers grant the opponent to use Rapid Spin. The ball is in the court of the rain player more often than not, so the opponent must decide whether it’s worthwhile to contest it while they blister themselves on Skarmory or Glalie’s Spikes.

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash/Modest Nature
- Dragon Claw/Dragon Breath
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Flying]/Roar/Toxic

There’s almost no superior Spikes abuser in ADV200 than Mixed Salamence, by proxy making it a good choice on rain as well. There’s not too much else to say other than pointing out how effective this coverage is, especially given how often Salamence is forcing switches for extra Spikes chip. Defensively, being able to threaten so many physical attackers is something rain often lacks into the likes of opposing Dragon Dance users. Furthermore, given rain team’s propensity to prevent rather than remedy Spikes on their side of the field, having a mon immune to them is a nice quality of life.

Manectric @ Never-Melt Ice/Lum Berry
Ability: Static
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]/[Grass]
- Thunder Wave
- Roar

Manectric serves as another Salamence-esque mon in the way of being a Roar user and potential Paralysis spreader. Its speed tier is important for outspeeding Modest Starmie bulkier Modest Alakazam, both of whom otherwise force defensive play from the rain user. Other than that, merely having a fast and strong-ish STAB Thunderbolt grants Manectric quite the position on teams who otherwise cannot quickly threaten Milotic and Skarmory repeatedly using Protect. HP Ice boosted by NMI snipes even bulkier DD Salamence, which is useful for endgame scenarios on rain teams that cannot relent on offensive pressure to even allow Salamence to set up once.

Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 188 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect/Explosion
- Rock Slide/Hidden Power [Rock]
- Toxic

For all this talk of struggling on off-turns outside of rain, especially into boosted or Choice Band Flying-type threats such as Swellow or Salamence, one may wonder how to answer them. Solrock has all the defensive traits to do so, luckily. Unstatused, Solrock can take a myriad of hits, assuming that the opposition isn’t carrying coverage for it. With the momentum of Explosion, or with precise double switches, Solrock effectively baits in slow mons (i.e., Metagross, Swampert) that the Swift Swim abusers can effortlessly set up a Rain Dance on. Once more, outside of Milotic, the mons that Solrock answers compliments what rain cannot when the skies are dry. Keep in mind that Paralysis support or a little speedcreep goes a long way in making Rock Slide much more annoying to manage.

Regirock @ Choice Band/Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 100 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake
- Explosion/Protect
- Focus Punch/Toxic

Regirock acts similarly, though trades the sheer compression of the Spikes-immune Solrock to be an even sturdier check to Flying-type offense. It takes a good amount from boosted Earthquake, but Choice Banded HP Ground from the likes of Swellow, Dodrio, and Crobat bounce off. Additionally, the extra strength of its attacks due to it having no need to run extra defensive investment goes a long way in making its repeated attacks and Explosion sting significantly more than Solrock’s. Furthermore, Choice Band Regirock is terrifying to face with Spikes up, threatening the same mons in the stop-gap between rain turns that Gorebyss would otherwise be scared to tussle with one-on-one.

I’ve alluded to many of…

THE ANSWERS

…before, but looking at their function and how they can slot on non-rain teams naturally is worth looking at. Additionally, quite a few of these Celdanami has already covered in his Water-type post, but I think it’s worthwhile to list and expand on his examples here. I will be ordering these mons from most to least viable, considering how easy they are to slot onto teams, and how well they check rain.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
- Surf
- Refresh/Light Screen
- Toxic
- Recover

Much of Milotic’s strength and viability comes from its matchup against rain. If a rain user acts too cavalier around Milotic, then they will inevitably run out of resources to break it. Many non-rain balance structures and pretty much all stall structures clamour for Milotic as their primary Water-type mon. While other offensive structures naturally carry Choice Band attackers to break past Milotic, or stallier structures can afford to run Rest Regice or Mean Look Dusclops to answer Milotic, more all-in rain structures really only have so many mons that are useful outside of the Milotic matchup that happen to check it. As such, on the receiving end of rain attacks, preserving Milotic while eliminating the likes of Gyarados or Electric-types is imperative.

Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 236 HP / 160 SpD / 112 Spe
Calm Nature
- Surf
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Protect/Rest

You may say that I’ve near-copy-and-pasted the set from before, and you’d be correct. Ludicolo can also comfortably fit on non-rain structures as an apt special check and one or two portions of FWG balance cores. If one can adequately answer Flying-type STAB attacks, and respond to Toxic attempts with a Guts attacker like Swellow, then Ludicolo is a sturdy, if passive, special check equipped to answer rain.

Gardevoir @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Wish
- Calm Mind

Likewise, Gardevoir is another otherwise effective mon that happens to answer rain, if less solidly than Ludicolo due to its neutrality to Water-type attacks instead of a 4x resistance. The big idea is that Trace Swift Swim Gardevoir with a little speed investment should always be outspeeding and threatening rain attackers with CM + Thunderbolt. The main benefit of Gardevoir over Ludicolo is that there’s a myriad of sets you can viably run on it, and most should adequately at least scare rain. Whether that’s a completely specially defensive Wish + Protect idea with Toxic to stall out the rain, or an offensively inclined CM idea with offensive investment and Thunderbolt, rain users must be hip to the idea Gardevoir can very quickly snowball into an unmanageable threat.

Kingdra @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Rest

This may seem a little strange. Perhaps a little more than a little strange. However, Kingdra’s defensive traits that make it so effective in rain structures apply to other structures that may want to make use of it. Unlike Salamence or Gyarados and their respective 4x weaknesses, Kingdra can fairly reliably click Dragon Dance more than twice. That unimpressive invested Return starts quickly ramping in damage. Pertaining to the rain matchup specifically, Swift Swim acts as a specific counter ability, ensuring Kingdra will have the speed advantage to snipe a rain threat without needing to take an Ice Beam hit. Just keep in mind that you need Magneton with this, or some other way to pressure Skarmory.

Golduck @ Leftovers
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 12 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Rest

Defensive Golduck typically wants Damp, but can certainly run Cloud Nine on non-rain teams that struggle into Gorebyss and their cohorts. Outside of the rain matchup, think of defensive Golduck as a mini-Suicune that also requires Magneton for its full potential. In the rain matchup, think of it as a lifeline.

Lanturn @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 120 HP / 200 SpA / 52 SpD / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam/Rest
- Thunder Wave/Toxic

Unlike Starmie, Lanturn can comfortably tank multiple rain-boosted attacks while threatening back with STAB Thunderbolt or the potentially even more damning Thunder Wave. The set above is an offensive idea, yet bulkier Lanturn with Rest proves to be an even sturdier rain check at the cost of its viability outside of the matchup. Speaking of which, Lanturn often pairs with mons weak to Electric-type onslaughts – typically stacking with other Water-type mons such as Starmie or Gyarados – to answer the all-too-common Starmie. If these teams ran Swampert instead, or other Ground-types to stomach the Electric attacks, they may lack the ability to answer rain.

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Protect/Rest
- Toxic

One may think Regice is typically the mon fills in Lanturn’s shoes in the scenario I described above. Very awkwardly I would imagine, given how one may also think how either of these mons would wear foot apparel, but I digress. The issue is both that Regice struggles to handle multiple rain-boosted attacks if played improperly, and can’t immediately threaten back with an OHKO onto Gorebyss. It can very easily prevent the opponent from setting up rain, and potentially stall it out a little with Protect, but can’t repeatedly take it head-on.

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Atk / 248 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Toxic
- Protect/Explosion
- Earthquake
- Thunder

Teams vying for a Toxic immunity but a bit more of a secure matchup into rain may consider Registeel. Alas, it still does not take rain-boosted Gorebyss Hydro Pump particularly well, but it can hang on to make it a 3KHO with Protect. Afterwards, it can threaten with Thunder, potentially pressuring rain’s common switch outs with Toxic as well. More defensive rain structures may have a rough time against Registeel, though it completely crumples to Metagross or mons who have already set up without Explosion.

Electrode @ Magnet/[No Item]
Ability: Static
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]/[Grass]/Mirror Coat/Toxic
- Light Screen/Thief
- Explosion

Outside of mons using their abilities to answer rain, Electrode is as close as you can really get to an offensive rain check. With a speed boosting nature, Electrode outpaces Modest Gorebyss in rain, which can just as quickly force it out the turn after it has just set up a Rain Dance. Electrode is very much only a mon to be put next to mons that appreciate the immediacy and speed of its breaking and quick utility, as its traits fit best on offense. This usage means it may have been expended before it can stifle or protect against a late game Rain Dance sweep with Explosion and Light Screen, respectively.

Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold/Calm Nature
- Surf
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Much like how Electrode only truly fits onto offensive structures, Wailord is only apt on bulky Spikes builds, where it can effectively spam Roar + RestTalk to whittle down the opponent. Part of it being effective is its strong matchup into rain lacking Gyarados or Ludicolo, wherein it can shuffle most effectively. However, sometimes fitting Wailord in particular is difficult on these structures, who may simply prefer the mixed walling capabilities of Milotic, or the more independently threatening Walrein.

Vileplume @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sunny Day
- Sleep Powder
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]/[Ice]

Vileplume answers the pouring rain with sun, and a properly played one can absolutely wallop shaky or weakened rain structures. However, the issues for Vileplume fall under one simple question: how can one fit it on a structure? It is not nearly as versatile or immediately threatening as the other Grass-type contenders, and using it outside the rain matchup is incredibly difficult. As it stands, it is a much more niche and perhaps unreliable choice into rain, if a fun one.

Types of structures and Useful Cores

In general, rain can be delineated into 3 styles:

- Mixed Offense, as a small engine in a larger (typically offensive) build – e.g., https://pokepast.es/25781956387d28b1, courtesy of FrankMarley.

This example team aims to pressure the opponent’s defensive answers to Choice Band Salamence and Gyarados out to swiftly be punished by Regice and Gorebyss. The main thing to take note of here is how unassuming this team otherwise looks. Rain isn’t on the mind of most players until Regice clicks Rain Dance or Gorebyss comes in to heavily punish an unaware opponent. By the time they realise what’s going on, it’s almost too late to respond most of the time. Double Intimidate helps to insulate the team from most repeated physical hits, while Metagross handles the otherwise problematic Regice well without the player needing to use their own Regice to beat it.

The main things to take note of is the mix of a physical breaker with the utility and speed of a Swift Swim attacker in Rain.

// – This core offensively and defensively scouts for each other member very well while all individually threatening a whole host of mons. Realistically, you could replace Salamence slot with a whole host of Choice Band attackers but Salamence is the one with the most potential for obfuscation in the lead slot. Having a reliable Toxic immunity and Flying-type resistance in the back seems like a good idea, hence why Metagross is such a strong synergy here.

// – This is a bulkier core that takes advantage of each of these mons’ immediate breaking opportunity, with Blaziken’s defensive inadequacies being quashed by how easy Ludicolo is to switch into. Choice Band Metagross is what this core likely defaults to so it can break, but depending on how much immediate physical offense you fill out the rest of this structure with (e.g., CB Claydol), then Agility Metagross can be used to great effect here as well. Another Flying-type resist in Regirock works excellently here once more, with the opportunity for it or other bulky setup such as Gardevoir potentially proving quite strong and rounding out the team defensively.

// – You typically round this structure out with Golduck, in addition to Claydol and a special attacker bringing up the rear. However, if you elect to run a Swift Swim abuser in the last slot here, it’s a little awkward to stack its roles with Golduck. As such, like the structure before this one, you split the CM user (typically Gardevoir, potential for Alakazam if you want something more offensively inclined) and the Swift Swim user. More often than not, the abuser will be Ludicolo due to its Earthquake resistance. Even though it's less powerful than its contemporaries, it will still break effectively enough for Curse Registeel to win in the endgame.

- Spikes Offense, where rain often plays a role in pressuring the opponent over a shorter game length – e.g., https://pokepast.es/48ed4bc5e7e08334, courtesy of Celdanami.

Glalie is great at pressuring a wide variety of leads out. Most notably, Taunt prevents lead Skarmory from compromising this team’s defensive integrity and trading ability with Spikes. After that point, Spikes with Gorebyss and CB Regirock do incredible work to wash down (get it?) the opponent. Banette acts as a temporary spinblocker that can consistently output big damage with Spikes. The BoltBeam combo with Manectric and Regice forces switches themselves, with Manectric’s Roar punishing any greedy setup, and Regice’s established synergy with Gorebyss giving the team even more offensive momentum.

// – Many of the same concepts we see again here, except this time helped along by Spikes pressure from Glalie. CB Regirock and Ludicolo both get a big boost from Spikes chip. Unlike with Gorebyss, being backed up by a Ground-resist helps this team go slightly longer, with it relying much less on ending the game on the spot. Furthermore, when backed with Spikes support, Ludicolo’s HP Grass 2KHOs Milotic fairly reliably. Leech Seed is the option for longevity, and can be paired with a different rain abuser to clean up endgames.

// – This is an offensive idea, with the benefit of Breloom’s sleep being that it grants Gorebyss a free turn to Rain Dance, or Glalie another opportunity to use Spikes. Lacking a Flying-type resist, this core likely wants Metagross or Regirock as a stop gap, with Banette having the chance to hold its own once again as a Spin blocker.

// – Utilising Skarmory this time for its Flying-resistance and ability to self-sufficiently phaze with Roar, Sceptile and Kingdra have the opportunity to clean out endgames, supported with the idea that all the mons on this squad have means of circumventing an opposing setup sweeper from boosting and robbing the game. Having another Flying-resist, with the likely candidate being Regirock or Manectric once again, is good in emergency situations wherein the Skarmory is eliminated. This structure can also struggle into Magneton and Lanturn clicking buttons repeatedly, so Hasty Earthquake Sceptile is a potentially good option so long as it stays un-statused. An alternate idea is having Claydol as offensive insurance and another Ground-immunity in this team’s backpocket to answer the threat of Thunder Wave clickers.

- Spikeless Hyper Offense, typically going Spikeless and chaining Rain Dance turns from one mon to another – e.g., https://pokepast.es/63167250db40a84d, courtesy of… myself.

Given this is my team, I will scrutinise it a little more and say: this was built in a fugue state at 3am. It likely has a win rate approaching 80-90%. I doubt I am that good in my play relative to the competition, so I must’ve done something right in the building process, or everyone else should be running more Milotic. Lead Gorebyss is liable to knock the socks off of unprepared teams, with it more than likely opening up a variety of avenues for Gyarados to break after Skarmory has been eliminated. The alternate win condition is embedded in Kingdra cleaning up the endgame after Water-type overload has been achieved successfully. Regice and Electrode act both as BoltBeam coverage and as a way to reset tempo in the user’s favour. In particular, Hidden Power Grass Electrode has caught many Swampert unawares. Golduck and Gyarados, as well as Regice and Electrode to a lesser extent, are this team’s silver bullets into Milotic, who is otherwise impossible to break.

Core? You’d like a core? Erm… ok well:

// – FYI, you’re going to be stuffing one or both of Ludicolo or Kingdra in the back, so the main idea is that 2/3rds of this core is dedicated to screwing with Milotic most of all while resetting tempo with Gyarados’ Intimidate and Regice’s Rain Dance + Explosion when necessary. Electing to find another way of pressuring Milotic while abusing the power of Rain, such as with Lanturn or the aforementioned Golduck, is likely a good idea. 3 setters minimum is mandatory, though feel free to run Baton Pass over Rain Dance on Gorebyss after you’ve met that threshold. Ultimately, this style is undoubtedly linear, though it’s a blast to pull off successfully.

These examples I still believe to not be entirely pushed to their limits, though it is a good jumping off point given how far the metagame has come from its (relatively) big explosion about a year ago.

Conclusion

From the results of the latest tour, and Gorebyss’ failure when improperly managed, rain still has a ways to go. If the brutal success of the latter Spikeless HO team on ladder is any indication though, answering rain adequately is also not reality in the world of teambuilding. This reflects rain teams going consistently under the radar, both in the way of building it being a challenging endeavour without proper resources, and how suboptimal rain teams stomp out the opposition nearly or wholly unprepared for the matchup.

It will soon no longer be good enough to pack a Regice and expect rain to crumple in the face of it. If that day comes, then I foresee how unconsciously leading Gorebyss and clicking Rain Dance will fail to be the sickle wrapped round the throat of the metagame.