Metagame Doubles UU

Paraplegic

relax...
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Hi, quick nomination here:
Clefable from tier 4 -> tier 3.
I personally think fable is just a notch below, if not equal too, togekiss as best redirection in this tier. Being able to safely redirect azu is huge, and then it's also a good answer for broken kommo which is a huge positive in and of it's self. Out of the 25 uses it's got in the ongoing tour so far, its 18-7(72% winrate), which I think showcases it's effectiveness quite well and as such I think it deserves to be tier 3 at the very least.
 
I guess now the tours over I'll give my thoughts on DUU as a whole and stuff. It was actually a lot more fun to play than I expected and I'm glad I took part, shame I couldn't win the whole thing. With regards to Kommo-o, I think its quite clearly the best mon in DUU and basically forces 2 fairy/soundproof mons on every team or you risk getting swept by it. This ends up meaning kommo-o itself is on every team since it doubles up as a huge offensive presence but also a pretty good check to opposing kommo-o. Its probably broken and should go but tbh its what made me enjoy this tour so much, it just made the games more fun to play for me.

Ill leave this team here that I used 4(?) times in the tour and didn't lose with. Without trying to blow my own trumpet, I think its one of the best teams around currently and if I'm honest I can't see anything it outright loses to if you play it well.



Gothitelle @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Protect
- Heal Pulse
- Helping Hand

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Fire Fang
- Protect

Incineroar @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 24 Def / 48 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Protect

Tsareena @ Assault Vest
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 56 SpD / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- U-turn
- Play Rough
- Feint

Kommo-o @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clanging Scales
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Taunt
- Icy Wind


Dragon pulse kommo is really good for dealing with opposing kommo and also 2hkos goth at +1 without activating a pinch berry which is nice. Goth + maw is super good at just smashing stuff under tr and hyper cutter means mane can't be annoying with attack drops. I'd definitely recommend you give it the team a try.

I think everyone knows that the vr needs a big revamp now, so I guess Ill help start and put what I think tiers 1-3 should look like, though im kinda known for having bad opinions on whats good so :I

Tier 1:
Azumarill
Kommo-o
Mega Manectric
Gothitelle

Tier 2:
Incineroar
Tsareena
Metagross
Mega Mawile
Mega Scizor
Gengar
Clefable

Tier 3:
Shaymin-Sky
Hydreigon
Rotom-W
Suicune
Thundurus-I
Clefairy
Victini
Mega Venusaur
Togekiss
Muk-A
Mega Charizard X (I guess :I)
 

Idyll

xD
is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
RBTT Champion
DUU's always been lit and fun every time I come back to it, and the past tour has genuinely been a fun ride as I personally found it both enjoyable and competitive considering I prepared for it more than I should lol

However, DUU as it is is heavily centralized. Specifically, it is extremely centered around Kommo-o. This is namely due to the fact that Kommo-o with Clangorous Clangblaze is a dangerous pokemon whose power level can arguably be considered unhealthy to the metagame's state. Basically, Kommo's ability to gain boosts easily and efficiently with its signature Z-move, which doesn't lose any tempo as the boosting move itself also does significant damage, is something that this tier isn't fit to handle with totally collapsing around it. This ability to easily get +1 in all stats and then wreak havoc with spread damage lends it the ability to easily break through teams, and its ability stomach a good number of hits with the improved bulk make it difficult to to take down. It's not something that can be checked offensively, and trying to check it by tanking hits isn't a surefire answer as it can actually take multiple hits by then. Simply put, Kommo-o as a booster is simply too good for DUU.

Kommo's undeniable dominance has lead players to build teams that both build around it and heavily dedicate to counter it. Just by looking at the usage stats of the last tour alone: it has a 100% usage in the finals 87.5% in the semis, and in every round except the first it has had the highest usage rate among all pokemon. The fact that one Pokemon has this much usage is already jarring. However, Kommo-o has also visibly warped how teams are built. It can be said that all teams need a Kommo-o in this tier. And why not? as it is a very dangerous sweeper / breaker. In addition to that, it functions as a check to itself. So by using Kommo, not only are you helping yourself win, you're also making yourself less likely to lose. Thanks to Soundproof blocking Clang, pairing Kommo with another Clang-immune Pokemon such as a Fairy-type will be able to block the boosts, which in turn will abate the charge of a single pokemon singlehandedly destroying about half of an entire team (if you're fortunate). However, the fact this scenario has been forced onto the metagame--the fact that you need x and y to have a good team-- is something that is quite questionable. And that's not even considering yet the strain Clang puts in-game, wherein just the threat of Clang alone can force plays such as forcing an Azu switch in front of a Mane and forcing a Toge + Azu switch in front of a Muk (DUU Winter Showdown Finals G3) and the actuality of Clang being able to win games in just a single step.

Right now, as I see it, the template of building in DUU is as follows:
  • Kommo-o
  • Fairy-type that can quickly KO Kommo-o
  • Breaker of Fairy-types (Clefable, really)
  • 3 Support mons to the chosen combination of Kommo-o + 2 others
- Kommo-o is obviously Kommo-o.

- The Fairy-type is there because it functions as a direct counter to Kommo-o, and the need to quickly KO is because the longer it stays alive, the longer it poses a threat which can really be damaing as Kommo-o does a lot of damage in small spans. The safest bet for this is Azumarill, which not only directly counters Kommo but also functions well with all the support for set-up present in teams as it can be another threat with BD. On other teams, this is Mega Mawile; I personally dislike this choice as I consider it a greedy choice, opting for a more offensive pick at the risk of playing around Flamethrower, but it has proven its worth. I've used Mega Altaria for this slot as well, funnily enough, and it works enough I guess lol. This slot isn't exclusive to offensive picks, however; Togekiss can function well, esp if it considers Dazzling Gleam specifically for Kommo-o, but it's better as a supplement to another Fairy. Another choice is Clefable, which is pretty much the hardest wall to a boosted Kommo; Unaware means it's not getting through even with boosts, so the damage it deals is considerably lessened and its position compromised.

- The last specific slot is so that you can actually break through the very things that try to check Kommo. Kommo-o won't like getting walled by Fairies, especially consdering it can only have one go-around with Clang. The biggest target here is Clef, which doesn't care. Metagross, Mega Mawile, and Mega Scizor have all seen use for this role.

- The last category is just code for "whatever fits". These are the guys that just try to support the game plan, which is try to win with Kommo, and they are / probably should be flexible enough to win when that plan fails / goes wrong. Incin works well for breaking Steels, Fake Out, and pivoting with AssVest and U-turn; another great example is Mega Mane, which Volts in and out and threatens everything. Goth does the job too; people do consider it to be broken lol.

With all that considered, I think Kommo-o should probably leave the tier at some point. Its presence honestly just makes the game quite stale; while it becomes similar enough to emphasize skill considering we're all playing with the same things anyway and just try to outdo each other in using said same things, this is not worth it over promoting diversity and enjoyability of the game. Seeing and playing with the same things over and over is genuinely not fun; trying to build with something else is also essentially a shot to the own foot if trying to win. Kommo-o leaving would likely be an improvement to the state of DUU as a whole.

***

OK, so since the tour is over, I figure I'd share some of my teams.

Krabs - Manectric + Two Broken Mons Offense

Are (Manectric-Mega) @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower
- Protect

You (Kommo-o) @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clanging Scales
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon
- Protect

Feeling (Azumarill) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Belly Drum
- Protect

It (Metagross) @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Hammer Arm

Now, (Incineroar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Mr. Krabs? (Togekiss) @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 60 SpD / 104 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Follow Me
- Tailwind

This team has been one of my faves for DUU. I built this versus Paraplegic as a light CT to his Clefable + Suicune team, and I've since used this in later rounds and to peak the DUU ladder at no. 1. As can be seen, the team is built around Azu + Kommo-O and trying to position them to a point where I can get something going. Mega Manectric is excellent at this as it can threaten a lot of things with just its Speed + coverage, and it can position around with Volt. Inciniroar functions as another supporter with Fake Out for giving room to boost and U-turn for position, and it's also the team's primary tank with AV. CB Metagross is just to break through threats, specifically Clefable and Togekiss. Togekiss is there for assisting my sweepers + a supplementary answer to Kommo, with Dazzling Gleam to get around opposing Kommo + redirection. Generally speaking, just position well with Azu + Kommo and you'll be good; general tip is to try to break with one so you can win with the other easier.

EV Notes: Metagross outruns Rotoms; Inciniroar outruns Mega Lucario in Tailwind; and Togekiss lives LO Thundurus TBolt, outruns boosted Kommo in Tailwind, and dumping in Def.

FAX - Mega Scizor + Two Broken Mons Offense


top 2 mega (Scizor-Mega) @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 40 SpD / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Swords Dance
- Protect

broken #2 (Azumarill) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Belly Drum
- Protect

broken #1 (Kommo-o) @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clanging Scales
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect

secret tier 1 (Incineroar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- U-turn

what (Greninja) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Mat Block
- Protect

cb jose altuve (Victini) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 16 HP / 240 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Final Gambit


I built this with like 2 hours sleep lol. Basically, I just wanted to use SD U-turn Mega Scizor Singles OU style, pivoting when needed and then going for game when applicable. Again, the two big brokens are there, and Incin does the same things. Gren is the peculiar pick for this team, but it fits in the sense that it's more of an anti-meta thing than anything. Gunk Shot and Ice Beam hit Azumarill and Kommo-o, respectively, and Greninja as just a threat is still dangerous. Mat Block is a meme option but it can work with the two boosters. Victini is just there as a crutch, giving the team more speed and a breaker that puts a game at 5v5, which this team should be fine with.

EV Notes: Vic OHKOes invested base 70 HP mons with Gambit, Mega Scizor is n10sit's suggested, and Inciniroar is just me pasting a set and not changing it (I knew it wanted Speed but never bothered to think harder than that)

JARAXXUS - Mega Altaria + One Broken Mon Offense


YOU FACE (Altaria-Mega) @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 84 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

JARAXXUS (Incineroar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- U-turn

EREDAR (Kommo-o) @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clanging Scales
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon
- Protect

LORD OF THE (Metagross) @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Hammer Arm

BURNING (Rotom-Wash) @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Light Screen
- Ally Switch

LEGION (Shaymin-Sky) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Tailwind
- Protect


I wanted to use Mega Altaria for the Fairy role, it looked usable enough and it could actually counter Kommo-o for a long-term role. By then, it's just supporting the double dragons. Rotom-W is useful for ASwitch and pivoting, Incin for pivoting ofc, and Shaymin-Sky's just for giving the team an offensive presence with speed control. Just position well :V

EV Notes: Rotom-W lives Skymin Seed Flare (non-LO). MAlt outruns MLuke after a DD and makes LO Thund HP Ice a 3HKO.

***

That's all. I'll post thoughts on VR maybe soon tho! One thing: T1 is Mega Mane / Kommo-o / Azu / Inciniroar and these are fax only.
 

eren

je suis d'ailleurs
special thanks to ldm for getting me into this tier.

now that the tour is over, I'll post some of the teams that I made during the course of the tour.


the team I used for semi finals—ended up losing but whatever—that displays some fun stuff. Aero is actually in a better spot than you'd think with Mane being arguably the best mega in the tier. The team itself is quite cookie cutter and really just gives kommo-o tons of opportunities to do work between wide guard, ally switch, and fake out support. I run 4 speed on incin so u get slower u-turn vs opposing incin when tr is up


wanted to use z pheromosa (unfortunately has to be timid to outspeed mane :() + swine as it's a cool combo. suicune tailwinds and is a general buffer versus tons of things. scarf fini with enough hp to ohko clefable.


love scarf raptor, and the core of spout toise + him really leaves a lot on the backfoot since let's say ur opp leads mane + bisharp or something it's free pickings if you gambit the mane. rest of team is standard lol. you can replace latios with kommo-o if you want but I enjoy the tailwind more. it owned level 51 so it must be good


wanted to use a cool idea in fight z buzzwole. just standard tr besides that.


this team's p self explanatory because it follows a rubric of core + elec check + fairy + kommo-o + incin. ._.


in regards to the vr, i'd like to see escavalier, staraptor, and greninja ranked. nihilego, nidoqueen, and a couple of other things should be unranked. I'll probably make a full post regarding vr but I'll say Azumarill and Kommo-o should be the only tier 1s at the moment. Just me tho.

E: seems like mgyara one was unclickable so fixed. also didn't mention the aero team was actually cm sylveon during the game and that's why I didn't click moonblast. ban :broken: pls thanks
 
Last edited:

talkingtree

large if factual
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SCL Champion
Making a few semi-official noms for things to be ranked so that they don't come out of nowhere:

Escavalier, Primarina, Greninja, Staraptor, Moltres, Mega Slowbro -> 5

Escavalier does Mega Scizor things without taking up the Mega slot, can carry an item which is helpful, solid on or against TR, decent third options like Knock Off, Drill Run, and Substitute, OHKOes Gothitelle with Megahorn.

Primarina blocks Kommo-o setup and KOes it, decent SpA, not the greatest movepool but it has enough to distinguish it from Azu like Energy Ball, Ice Beam, Perish Song.

Greninja is stronger than I gave it credit, with LO Protean it OHKOes Kommo-o / Azu / MSciz with Ice Beam / Gunk Shot / HP Fire. Mat Block's nifty too I suppose, and it has a decent speed tier with resistances to the important priority moves (AJet and BPunch) before it attacks to change its type.

Staraptor is a Scarf Gambit user with Intimidate, difficult to justify over Victini sometimes due to its lower HP and worse attacking power, but the support from Intimidate can be crucial.

Moltres is something I used a couple times that prob won't get added because it's too theorymon rn, but it has Z-Hurricane to OHKO Kommo-o through the boosts and has the bulk to tank a Clanging Scales + Clangorous Soulblaze and still set Tailwind. Fire coverage is nice for Scizor. Try it out if you've been wanting to, it's stronger than I thought it would be.

Mega Slowbro has Oblivious pre-Mega to prevent the Taunt and set TR, can CM pretty easily and tank hits from Kommo-o, could carry Fire Blast to surprise Scizor too. More anti-meta than people give it credit for rn imo, though that's only from my limited experience of using it in testfights.

If anyone has anything else they think should be considered to be *added* to the VR, nom sooner rather than later. Movements for many of the currently-placed Pokemon will be coming soon, but we don't have a definitive list for what to vote on what to be added.
 

n10siT

Hoopa can do anything!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
With the first edition of the DUU circuit coming to a close, I thought it would be fun to share my thoughts on the tournament and the metagame as a whole, as well as provide some of the winners and losers of the tour in the grand scheme of DUU.

About midway through the first round, we saw a new archetype pop up in Gothitelle + Mega Manectric + Setup, and this quickly swept the metagame aside and prevented itself as both the team to use and beat for the rest of the tour. Kommo-o specifically is great with this pair, and it rose to an astounding 43% usage, surpassing even DUU staple Mega Scizor. Even more impressive is its staggering 65% win percentage, especially considering many of its matches were mirrors that resulted in a win and a loss for the pokemon. While this metagame change was swift and abrupt, I personally thought it was great to see meta development pushed forward so heavily in a way that I personally didn't spearhead, which is great for the metagame as a whole. I will echo Memoric's thoughts on Kommo-o: A pokemon so centralizing that you dedicate 3-4 slots on every team to beating it is straight up not healthy, and I would like to be able to ban Kommonium Z as soon as possible (kamikaze). I am very welcome to more metagame changes and hope to see more of our community's great players continue to challenge and change the norm as far as what is good in this tier.

DUU Winter: Winners

Kommo-o: I went over Kommo-o's success in my beginning paragraph, but thanks to the recent release of its own insanely powerful Z move, Kommo-o has surged to the top of this Metagame, challenged only by Azumarill in terms of dominance. Boasting the highest usage rate while also having the 5th highest winrate of everything above 10% usage is insane. A broken pokemon, it currently is the face of DUU.

Gothitelle: At first considered a niche pick, the Shadow Tag user we all know and love has quickly proven itself as the premier support Pokemon in DUU. The ability to Trap, set Trick Room, and Heal Pulse its allys is incredible when paired with aggressive setup sweepers like Kommo-o and Azumarill. While we wait to hear if there will be a DOU decision on Shadow Tag or Gothitelle, it will remain a premier threat on many DUU teams. It also posted a positive winrate (57%), which is fairly impressive considering it also saw a bunch of mirrors, especially in the middle-late rounds.

Manectric-Mega: Like Gothitelle, Mega Manectric was on the fringe of viability until Level 51's favored archetype found it's way to DUU, and boy has it been a subject of contention. Many believe it to be the best mega in the format, as its speed + pivot ability + ability to drop both attacking stats has been able to provide so much support for the likes of Azumarill and Kommo-o. It has certainly taken the mega by storm, and it will be interesting to see where it's viability goes when/if we have a DUU without Kommo-o or Gothitelle. It boasted a high usage rate of 21.92% while also maintaining a solid winrate of 59.38%.

Incineroar: At the start of this tournament, Incineroar saw a lot of competition. There were bulky fake out users in Hariyama and Hitmontop, strong Fire types in Entei and Victini, and solid Dark types in Hydreigon and Krookodile. As the tour progressed however, Incineroars bulk, power, and utility quickly saw its usage sky rocket. Incineroar pairs well with Goth/Mane/Setup, as the bulky fake out, strong fire stab, and ability to pivot with U turn allow it to support the team in a number of ways. It had the 4th highest usage rate in DUU, trailing only Kommo-o, Scizor, and Azumarill, at 29.45% while also boasting the best winrate at 67.44%.

Clefable: With the rise of heavy setup, Clefable's ability to ignore opposing stat boosts with unaware and redirect attacks has proven invaluable. It's one of the more solid Kommo-o checks in the game, and has other utility in Heal Pulse and Icy Wind. Clefable won 66.67% of its games at 18.49% usage, so it is clearly here to stay, challenging even Togekiss as the best redirector in the format.

Gengar: This pokemon has fallen off since XY DOU, seeing as it lost levitate and was pushed out of viability by stronger Pokemon, it has fallen to us here in DUU. Always a solid choice, Gengar's utility has seen it surge back onto the scene as a dominant threat. Able to beat fairies and psychic types as well as provide great support in Icy Wind, Will-o-Wisp, and Taunt, mean the sash disruptor set is back in full force. While its usage was middling, around 15.75%, it had a great winrate at 65.22%.

Losers:

Charizard-Mega-X: This Pokemon saw a huge fall from stardom this tour. With Kommo-o's rise and the everpresent dominance of Azumarill, as well as new competition for the Mega slot in Manectric and Mawile, see this Pokemon's viability plummet. While still a threat, it loses to the 2 best Pokemon in the format, which is no bueno for something that is supposed to be so powerful. It's tour usage was a measly 6.16%, and it went 4-5 in games, for a 44.44% winrate.

Breloom: Previously considered a premier threat, with its combo of priority and Spore, Breloom quickly found itself in a number of poor matchups, whether it was being taunted by Gengar, redirected by goggles Togekiss or Clefable, or just straight up KO'd due to its poor defensive stats and typing, Breloom saw high usage coupled with poor performance in round 1, and quickly saw its usage fall from there. It had a high usage rate at 18.49%, but a terrible winrate: 40.74%. It was the 2nd most used Pokemon in round 1, seeing 31.94% usage and a 43.48% winrate there. It went just 1-3 in the next 4 rounds.

Gardevoir-Mega: Many people, myself included, thought this strong mega would take a foothold in DUU, boasting great Special Attack and Defense stats and Strong STAB in Hyper Voice with utility moves like Trick Room and Icy Wind. However, Kommo-o's ability Soundproof prevents Hyper Voice, and the increased Mega competition + Pokemon like Gengar and Incineroar really shut down Mega Gardevoir's offense. It saw a measly 8.90% usage and a poor 30.77% winrate.

Porgyon-Z: While this Pokemon didn't do outright terrible, it saw its position as foremost Z crystal setup Pokemon taken away by Kommo-o. While PZ is not a bad pokemon in its own right, not being able to use it with Kommo-o puts any PZ team at a disadvantage. Mega-Manectric doesn't help either, as its base form's lightning rod can help teams deal with it more easily.

Sylveon: Hooooo boy. Sylveon took a hit this tour. It already sees so much competition from Fairy-types like Gardevoir, Azumarill, and Clefable, and now with Kommo-o blocking its preferred set of specs Hyper Voice, Sylveon has to find a new way to find success, and it didn't find it in this tour. It had the worst usage rate of every Pokemon with more than 10 uses, as it went an abysmal 2-10 in games for a winrate of 16.67%, at a usage rate of 8.22%.

Dragons: I touched on this in my notes about Zard X, but the addition of Kommo-o's dominance coupled with Azumarills dominance and Manectric's ability to snarl them, Dragon types struggled to succeed in this tournament. Both Latios and Hydreigon had the same records: 4-8 (33.33%) and a usage rate of 8.22%.

Thanks for playing everyone! I know myself and the rest of the DUUdes™ will continue to develop and monitor the metagame until the time comes for our next tournament.
 

n10siT

Hoopa can do anything!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I'll double post - I don't give a FUCK

First off, I want to think Heliodor for everything he's done for DUU and for me personally - as he deals with issues IRL his activity has been shaky, and we have added marilli to the DUU VR council in his place. Again, thank you Helio!

With the conclusion of DUU winter, it became clear that the VR was outdated, many Pokemon's viability had been proven or disproven by players in the tournament, so we sat down and redid the whole thing. We did an initial vote on every single Pokemon, which will be shown below. We then reevaluated the close votes in a second round of voting, and those results are at the bottom of the voting. I will not post the results here because it would be painstaking and I am lazy, please view the VR to see what has changed. I will post the voting here though, to see each individual members ideas.

Tier 1:
  • Azumarill
    • N10sit: 1
    • Talkingtree: 1
    • Lord death man:1
    • Demantoid: 1 ~Elite Water~
    • Marilli: 1
  • Charizard-Mega-X
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man:3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Scizor-Mega
    • N10sit: 2
    • Talkingtree: 1 / 2
    • Lord death man:2
    • Demantoid: 2
    • Marilli: 2

Tier 2:
  • Breloom
    • N10mish: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3 / 4
    • Lord death man:4
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Gardevoir-Mega
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3 / 4
    • Lord death man:3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 2
  • Keldeo
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man:3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Kommo-o
    • N10sit: 1
    • Talkingtree: 1
    • Lord death man:1
    • Demantoid: 1
    • Marilli: 1
  • Necrozma
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man:3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Porygon-Z
    • N10sit: 2 i guess this is still good
    • Talkingtree: 3 because you can’t use it with kommo-o
    • Lord death man:4
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Shaymin-Sky
    • N10sit: 2
    • Talkingtree: 2 / 3
    • Lord death man:2
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 2
  • Suicune
    • N10sit: 2
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man:3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli:3
  • Thundurus-Incarnate
    • N10sit: 2??? I dont know
    • Talkingtree: 2 / 3
    • Lord death man:2
    • Demantoid: 2
    • Marilli: 2
  • Togekiss
    • N10sit: 2
    • Talkingtree: 2
    • Lord death man:2
    • Demantoid: 2
    • Marilli: 2

Tier 3:
  • Abomasnow-Mega
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 4
    • Lord death mish:4
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: 3??
  • Blastoise-Mega
    • N10sit: 3, this is a good pokemon
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man:3 i guess
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Entei
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man:3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Gothitelle
    • N10sit: 2
    • Talkingtree: 2 but can we ban shadow tag
    • Lord death man: 1
    • Demantoid: 2
    • marilli: 1 / “tier 0” and if this gets kicked out of the tier probably my VR thoughts on the other mons will change considerably. But as it stands its so op to the point most things that synergize well with it has been rated high, and everything else has been ranked down.
  • Gyarados
    • N10sit: 3 or 4 idk
    • Talkingtree: 4
    • Lord death man: 3 i guess
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Hydreigon
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3 / 4
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: 3
  • Incineroar
    • N10sit: 2
    • Talkingtree: 2
    • Lord death man: 2
    • Demantoid: 2
    • Marilli: 2
  • Krookodile
    • N10sit: 3 this is also still good
    • Talkingtree: 3 / 4
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: 3
  • Landorus-Incarnate
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3 / 4
    • Lord death man: 4
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: 4 / “never seen this”
  • Latios
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 4 / 5
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: 4
  • Musharna
    • N10sit: 3 long live z tr
    • Talkingtree: 3 / 4
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Sylveon
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 4 / 5
    • Lord death man: 5, it’s just so hard to make work with kommo
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Venusaur-Mega
    • N10sit: 3, best azu check in the game and can sleep kommo o
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Victini
    • N10sit: 3, i dont think this is tier 2
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3

Tier 4:
  • Aerodactyl-Mega
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Mishrilli: never seen this
  • Bisharp
    • N10sit: 4? idk
    • Talkingtree: 4 / 5
    • Lord death man: 3, I feel like this benefits so much from intimidate+snarl spam.
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: 4
  • Blacephalon
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 4
    • Lord death man: 4
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Clefable
    • N10sit: 3, maybe even 2, but 3 for now
    • Talkingtree: 2 / 3
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 2
    • Marilli: 3
  • Darkrai
    • N10sit: UR? 5 if we have to
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: i want to say 5 but i’m cool with UR
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Gengar
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 2
  • Gigalith
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 4 / 5
    • Lord death man: i genuinely don’t know
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Gyarados-Mega
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 5 / UR
    • Lord death man: UR
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Hariyama
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 4
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Hitmontop
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 4
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: 4
  • Hoopa-Confined
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 4
    • Lord death man: 4
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: 4
  • Mamoswine
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: UR, it seems good on paper but it’s literally impossible to use atm
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Mawile-Mega
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man: 2
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Metagross
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Milotic
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 4
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: 4
  • Muk-Alola
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 3 / 4
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Pheromosa
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 4 / 5
    • Lord death man: 4
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Rhyperior
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 4
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Rotom-Wash
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 2/3
  • Tsareena
    • N10sit: 3
    • Talkingtree: 3
    • Lord death man: 3
    • Demantoid: 3
    • Marilli: 3
  • Weavile
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 4
    • Lord death man: 4
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this

Tier 5:
  • Buzzwole
    • N10sit: 5 buzz buzz motherfuckers
    • Talkingtree: 5 / UR
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Clefairy
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: 3
  • Conkeldurr
    • N10sit: UR
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: 5
  • Deoxys-Normal
    • N10sit: 5 this is still theoretically good i guess
    • Talkingtree: UR, mew’s gone
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Houndoom-Mega
    • N10sit: ur as fuck
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: UR
    • Demantoid: ur
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Infernape
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Linoone
    • N10sit: 5, still in theory viable
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: 3
  • Lucario-Mega
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: 4
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Manectric-Mega
    • N10sit: 2
    • Talkingtree: 2
    • Lord death man: 2
    • Demantoid: 1
    • Marilli: 1
  • Meloetta
    • N10sit: 4
    • Talkingtree: 4 / 5
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: 4
  • Nidoqueen
    • N10sit: ur
    • Talkingtree: 5 hi n10sit ;) jk UR’s fine
    • Lord death man: UR
    • Demantoid: ur
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Nihilego
    • N10sit: ur
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: UR
    • Demantoid: ur
    • Marilli:never seen this
  • Ninetales
    • N10sit: ur
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: UR
    • Demantoid: ur
    • Marilli:never seen this
  • Pinsir-Mega
    • N10sit: ur
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: UR
    • Demantoid: ur
    • Marilli:never seen this
  • Rhydon
    • N10sit: Ur
    • Talkingtree: UR, rhyperior can KO goth with LO Megahorn but Rhydon’s weak
    • Lord death man: same as rhyperior, essentially the same mon
    • Demishtoid: 5
    • Marilli:never seen this
  • Salamence
    • N10sit: ur
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli:never seen this
  • Tangela
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: UR
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli:never seen this
  • Terrakion
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 4
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: 5
  • Tornadus
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this
  • Thundurus-Therian
    • N10sit: ur
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: UR
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: 5
  • Venusaur
    • N10sit: ur
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: UR
    • Demantoid:ur
    • Marilli:never seen this
  • Xurkitree
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli:never seen this
  • Zygarde-10%
    • N10sit: ur i think, this might stay tho
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: UR its terrible
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: ur never seen this be useful

UR:
  • Escavalier -> 5
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: 5
  • Primarina -> 5
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 5 i guess
    • Demantoid: 4
    • Marilli: mished (yes)
  • Greninja -> 5
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: never seen this but i can see why this works. 5
  • Staraptor -> 5
    • N10sit: 5
    • Talkingtree: UR
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: 5
    • Marilli: sure
  • Moltres -> 5
    • N10sit: ur
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: UR i’ve never seen this work
    • Demantoid:ur
    • Marilli: ur never seen
  • Mega Slowbro -> 5
    • N10sit: ur
    • Talkingtree: 5
    • Lord death man: 5
    • Demantoid: ur
    • Marilli: ur never seen
Round 2 changes/results:
clefable 3 -> 2
breloom 3 -> 4
mstoise 3 -> 4
gigalith 4 -> 5
hariyama 4 -> 5
rhyperior 4 -> 5
tangela 5 -> UR
 
Last edited:

talkingtree

large if factual
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SCL Champion
For anyone curious, here are all of the changes from the previous version of the VR:

Rises
Kommo-o 2 -> 1

Gothitelle 3 -> 2
Incineroar 3 -> 2

Clefable 4 -> 2
Gengar 4 -> 3
Mega Mawile 4 -> 3
Metagross 4 -> 3
Muk-A 4 -> 3
Rotom-W 4 -> 3
Tsareena 4 -> 3

Mega Manectric 5 -> 2
Meloetta 5 -> 4

Escavalier UR -> 5
Primarina UR -> 5
Greninja UR -> 5
Staraptor UR -> 5

Drops
Mega Charizard X 1 -> 3
Mega Scizor 1 -> 2

Breloom 2 -> 4
Mega Gardevoir 2 -> 3
Keldeo 2 -> 3
Necrozma 2 -> 3
Porygon-Z 2 -> 3
Suicune 2 -> 3

Mega Abomasnow 3 -> 4
Mega Blastoise 3 -> 4
Landorus 3 -> 4
Latios 3 -> 4
Sylveon 3 -> 4

Mega Aerodactyl 4 -> 5
Darkrai 4 -> UR
Gigalith 4 -> 5
Mega Gyarados 4 -> 5
Hariyama 4 -> 5
Mamoswine 4 -> 5
Rhyperior 4 -> 5

Mega Houndoom 5 -> UR
Nidoqueen 5 -> UR
Nihilego 5 -> UR
Ninetales 5 -> UR
Mega Pinsir 5 -> UR
Rhydon 5 -> UR
Tangela 5 -> UR
Thundurus-T 5 -> UR
Venusaur 5 -> UR
Zygarde-10% 5 -> UR
 
I'd like to nominate Reuniclus to Tier 4. Its incredible under Trick Room, which it can set up itself. It also hits very hard with Magic Guard + Life Orb. It can also OHKO Kommo if you catch it before a Soulblaze and then still 2HKOs it with max HP. A very underrated Pokemon, it can be a huge threat if played right.
 

n10siT

Hoopa can do anything!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Our April shifts are up, and boy do we have a fucking doozy of a metagame shift.

RISES:
Kommo-o
Mega Scizor
Mega Manectric
Gothitelle
Incineroar
Weavile
Suicune
Mega Mawile
Victini
Togedemaru

DROPS:
Volcarona
Gastrodon
Mimikyu
Politoed
Garchomp
Marowak-Alola
Naganadel

So, arguably the three best megas are gone, the best intimidate is gone, and the best pokemon is gone. Goth is gone. Suicune is gone. We gained Rain, Volcarona, Gastrodon, Nag, etc. This is pretty out there. Completely new metagame for us in week 2 of DPL. Will be fun to see how everyone adapts.
 
| 44 | Togedemaru | 4.013% |
I guess he too goes into Doubles OU

| 63 | Diancie-Mega | 2.682% |
The only "Doubles OU by technicality"
 
Last edited:

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Few thoughts on existing mons.

Sylveon 4 > 3. This had an absolutely horrible meta for it, and now things are a lot kinder to Sylveon, so I think it should rise. This meta feels very kind to Sylv, it lives threatening attacks like timid Naganadel Sludge Bomb, just generally feels a lot better.

Gardevoir-Mega 3 > 2. Same thing more or less, steels are nowhere and Garde can be difficult to ohko, but it's obviously considerably more frail than Sylv.

Metagross. Not sure this should change ranks, but it's the only good bulky steel and it checks so many good things, and it likes rain support a lot. Great mon atm.

Abomasnow-Mega. Still not easy to fit on teams, but it has a fantastic rain matchup and there's very few good fires or steels at the moment.

A few preliminary thoughts on new mons.

Rain. Way less broken than I thought, Ludicolo is so weak that it rarely feels like a huge issue, I think the actual rain threats are Omastar/Gorebyss (which might as well be the same mon) or maybe Kabutops, which I haven't seen at all. Rain + Azumarill is terrifying, but running 3 water types has its own issues. Ludicolo being slower than +1 Jolly Zardx/Volcarona is awful for it. Politoed is actually an okay support mon, unlike Ninetales, which helps rain immensely.

Naganadel. Fantastic speed tier, pretty good typing, great meta for this. Its stabs have fantastic coverage which lets you easily run tailwind, and its ability is amazing, letting you either grab a +1 (or take you from -2 to -1) special attack boost or +1 speed boost, depending on how you ev it. In addition to the obvious life orb / z move stabs + tailwind set, I've been using modest scarf and I've been feeling that that's a decent set as well, nets a lot of surprise kills because of how ridiculously fast it is. Great mon.

Garchomp. I think this is just mediocre. I feel like someone might discover a niche for it, but I'm not holding my breath.

Gastrodon. It has a niche but I don't think it's all that great. Unless most meh mons, there's a clear place in teams where this fits, but I just don't feel like most teams really benefit that much from it. Not a rain stop, kind of a meh azumarill check, consistently just okay.

Marowak-Alola. Hits ridiculously hard, but its bulk can be a bit of a letdown. Really like this on trick room because it feels like a massive threat from turn one, but I'm not really feeling lightning rod on it.

Mimikyu. Pleasantly surprised by how good this feels, a great semi-room or fullroom supporter, especially if you have an open z-move. Despite not being that strong and being a little fast for tr, it can really put in work in a lot of matchups, and Let's Snuggle Forever hits like a truck even off of 90 attack. Good mon.

Volcarona. I think this is being overlooked a little because of rain, but it's a huge threat. Timid at +1 is faster than modest Ludicolo, which alone makes it less dead weight vs that archetype than might be expected. You have a lot of options in move choice at the moment because of how few steels there are the meta, and I've only regretted dropping Heat Wave because it's spread, rather than because I'd lose fire coverage. Great mon.

EDIT: I'd also like to nom Gorebyss/Omastar to 4. They're very similar mons stat wise, but Gorebyss has quite a bit less bulk in exchange for having a better type to take the majority of common priority; Omastar lives most of them anyway, I think +6 Azu in rain being the notable thing that Gorebyss can live. Gorebyss also learns Psychic, which hits mVenu considerably harder but isn't usually a 2hko, while Omastar learns Earth Power which is pretty much useless at the moment. I don't think there's a real difference between their speed tiers; Gorebyss at max speed modest is faster than max speed azumarill, timid for both is just over timid Pheromosa, just under modest Ludicolo. I'd be fine with only Omastar being ranked, but I think Gorebyss is pretty much the same mon with some minor advantages in niche situations.

Both have access to high special attack stats and Muddy Water, which makes them viable on rain. Only other Muddy Water swift swim mon is Seismitoad, which is weak (85 spatk) and has an awkward movepool.
 
Last edited:

n10siT

Hoopa can do anything!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
VR change time! Please feel free to continue to nominate either these Pokemon or old Pokemon who have new places in the new metagame.

I have also added some sample teams to the thread. If you have a team you are okay with making public that you feel should be a sample, please post it in this thread or PM me on PS or Discord.

Garchomp: UR -> Tier ?
  • N10sit: can u ever justify using this as a ground over krook and lando or a dragon over latios and hydrei and naga? I dont think so. I know its a drag ground but whats this do besides lose to most of the good pokemon, maybe scarf could have merit but honestly dont think so. Cautionary UR for me and could realistically be eating my words here if it finds a niche
  • Talkingtree: UR for now, but I’m determined to make this work before DPL ends so it’ll be higher later
  • Lord death man: i want to believe this can do something, but I think I’d rather see it do whatever it is it can do before we rank it. UR.
  • Demantoid: I’m sure this will be able to do something but I don’t know what yet
  • Marilli ? i dont know man it’s probably a bit too hard to justify putting this anywhere with 0 context. I think it’ll actually be decent, but probably below / similar to krookodile? Can’t be much worse than that tbh, so should probably be ranked around there

Ludicolo: UR -> Tier ?
  • N10sit: i think this is tier 3, its the fastest swift swimmer and has good coverage, only thing holding it back is that its kind of weak
  • Talkingtree: 2, offers fake out / good coverage / strong z-move if you go that route and is surprisingly difficult to take down
  • Lord death man: i think 1 below politoed, so maybe 3.
  • Demantoid: 3 i’m not sure ludi is too effective right now when people should be running sturdy water resists for azu
  • Marilli 2. This is kinda good.

Marowak-Alola: UR -> Tier ?
  • N10sit: tier 4, lightning rod gives it more utility than just TR attacker, more frail than i would like though and could get worse as the meta continues to change
  • Talkingtree: 4 for now, but I’ll be easily persuaded to bring it up to 3 later
  • Lord death man 3 or 4, it hits insanely hard and fits decently well on semi-room teams due to it’s typing, but it’s bulk can be a letdown and it’s rain matchup is miserable.
  • Demantoid: 4 Water is one of the most common offensive typings which awak doesn’t like.
  • Marilli 3

Mimikyu: UR -> Tier ?
  • N10sit: super hot fire, SD TR is pretty good, can run either ghostium or mimikium or other items, has a niche! Tier 3
  • Talkingtree: 4, I’m too disappointed in its damage output to rank it higher even if it might deserve that. Really wanted this to be great and it’s more alright than great
  • Lord death man: 3, its got a niche especially with semiroom being solid atm but losing to everything on tr / every anti tr mon isn’t nice unless u have a great mu.
  • Demantoid: 4 seems worse than most everything in 3 rn
  • Marilli 3 has a niche as usual

Politoed: UR -> Tier ?
  • N10sit: tier 2, providing rain is very good
  • Talkingtree: 2, helping hand + encore + icy wind + rain support + bulk = good mon
  • Lord death man: 2, rain has lots of ways to do things
  • Demantoid: 2 seems fine
  • Marilli 2 rains good probably

Naganadel: UR -> Tier ?
  • N10sit: tier 2, insanely strong and it has good coverage moves or can set TW, also one of the fastest things in the tier
  • Talkingmish - tier 1, I don’t care if it’s frail it’s practically the most widely threatening mon in the tier right now
  • Lord death man - 2, it’s clearly great but I don’t think it’s Azumarill’s level, I’m fine with 1 though.
  • Demantoid: 2 I’ve never found mons like this very impressive so I could see it falling
  • Marilli 2

Volcarona UR -> Tier ?
  • N10sit: tier 2 i think, despite rains strength this thing has some of the best setup in the game and can win games on its own
  • Talkingtree: tier 2, too many people are relying on SR as their only answer and it’s still really good
  • Lord death man: tier 3, I think it’s great and all but it’s not as hard to prep for as I thought, especially with rain being good.
  • Demantoid: 2
  • Marilli 2? Idk volcarona is pretty strong setup

Gorebyss UR -> Tier 4
  • N10sit: UR, doesnt give me enough over omastar or ludicolo
  • Talkingtree: UR, can’t rank on theorymon, same as chomper
  • Lord death man: my nom
  • Demantoid: I’d rather have :oma: ur
  • Marilli smashed and passed? Probably decent with rain but imean tough to rank without context….

Omastar UR -> Tier 4
  • N10sit: I can see this in four but i think my vote will be 5, its probably the only other viable swift swim but it loses to ludicolo and is much slower
  • Talkingtree: 5, could be nice to cover various flying types over ludicolo but it’s otherwise purely worse
  • Lord death mish: my nom
  • Demantoid: 5 stronger than ludi and lower speed isn’t very relevant right now
  • Marilli: abstain idk why you’d use this over ludicolo

Gastrodon: UR -> Tier ?
  • N10sit: 4 it checks azu kinda but loses to the partners
  • Talkingtree: agreed, 4
  • Lord death mish:
  • Demantoid: just put it in 4
  • Marilli:


Results:
Ludicolo
: UR -> Tier 3
Marowak-Alola
: UR -> Tier 4
Mimikyu
: UR -> Tier 3
Politoed
: UR -> Tier 2
Naganadel
: UR -> Tier 2
Volcarona
: UR -> Tier 2
Omastar
: UR -> Tier 5
Gastrodon
: UR -> Tier 4
 

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
metagross 3 > 2. seeing a LOT of use in dpl and spring showdown, has a positive winrate in both. thought this was tier 2 already to be honest. essentially the only steel available to most teams, it checks a lot and bashes in a lot regardless of set.

krook 3 > 4 or even 5. meta is really unfavorable to it. doing absolutely terribly in the spring tour. having trouble justifying using this unless i want every single thing it can offer, which isn't that often.

lucario-mega 5 > 4. i honestly could see this going up to 3, less mega competition than ever, it hits crazy hard, super offensive teams feel "in" right now, etc. doing pretty good on usage and winrate in the spring tour.

talonflame unranked > 4. i honestly thought this was awful but it is clearly doing pretty well in the spring tour, having been used at least 8 times and winning 6 of those games. clearly it's doing more than a lot of other mons that are ranked.

araquanid unranked > 5. pretty much same as talonflame (slightly less usage). i think this is obviously less splashable than talonflame but clearly it's been working for people.

rotom-wash 3 > 5. actual garbage. it loses to almost everything good at the moment except azumarill and like politoed, but it still loses to rain so who cares. impossible to justify unless you're very weak to azumarill or a god at using ally switch effectively.

EDIT 05/19

infernape 5 > UR. no one is using this and it's very obvious why. it's frail, it's kind of weak (outside of blaze boosted overheats) + has to split investments, it just isn't good vs any dominant playstyle or mon except metagross. i've held off on suggesting this should be unranked for a while because i felt it was unique as a semi-fast offensive, but it just doesn't cut it in a lot of situations. i'd rather use Salazzle most of the time. so.

salazzle UR > 5. i think this might come out of nowhere and i'm completely fine with it being rejected, but this offers most of what I end up using Infernape for in the current meta. except it's actually fast enough + has the right stabs to threaten common mons. notably faster than Lucario, Thundurus, and Gengar. poison stab hits Fairies + Ludicolo (if you're sash). this nomination is entirely in relation to infernape; i feel that salazzle just ends up doing a lot of what ape does better, especially with rain being so prominent and weakish fighting moves being so meh (though blaze overheats are legit).

EDIT 05/26

Rhyperior, Aerodactyl-Mega, Conkeldurr, Primarina, Mamoswine, Linoone, Milotic and Xurkitree all saw no use in DPL and only losses in the recent DUU tour, to my knowledge. Conkeldurr saw no use at all. I'm going to nominate all of then go from tier 5 to UR.

Necrozma was used in both tours, but only saw losses as well. I'm going to nominate it for tier 5.

Meanwhile, Garchomp saw quite a bit of use in both and a good winrate in both. I'm nominating it to tier 3.
 
Last edited:

Idyll

xD
is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
RBTT Champion
Ace DUU Teambuilder Big Memoric skrr skrr skrr up with the hottest noms off the block


Metagross to 1

Metagross is pretty much the most splashable Pokemon in the entire DUU metagame. Its Steel-typing is pretty much unique as it's the only one that can actually use it defensively in any notable manner, and it also has notable bulk especially on the Defensive side to go along with it; this in turn makes it a really great reactive answer pretty much everything you'd need it to, and in particular it can put in check top threats in Azumarill, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Venusaur, and itself. Its also a pretty strong attacker with its STAB coverage that's only resisted in the DUU meta by Metagross itself taking advantage of that 135 Attack stat well. Choice Band Metagross has histroically done fine in DUU and it's even better now with so few being able to come in on it, while a bulkier set with Mago Berry or something can also put in work as Hashtag showed in the DPL Finals game for DUU. Its unique characteristics and general effectiveness make it so easy to fit, and it always does work in general; it shows in the usage stats, as it is the most used Pokemon in both Spring Showdown and DPL, still while having a respectable winrate. As a Tier 1, while Azumarill can be the most dangerous, Metagross is the rock that steadies the ship that is most DUU teams in the meta rn.


Tsareena to 2

It's a pretty great pivot to have in general. Queenly Majesty is just a really nifty ability to have in general as it shuts down so much plays and is a really neat utility tool; there's a lot of use in being able to block Aqua Jets, Bullet Punches, and Prankster Thunder Waves. As a defensive piece, it really helps a lot in supplementing the rain matchup and with an AV on it's just a nice tank to have in general; it also helps that it effectively shuts down Azumarill lol. Tsareena's just generally one of those can't-go-wrong types of mons as its defensive applications are usually pretty apparent in games.


Mega Venusaur to 2

Mega Venusaur is one of the most annoying Pokemon to face in this meta lol. It's really hard to kill while it's capable of doing signficant damage back; it's pretty much the quintessential tank-and-spank attacker. Not only that, though--it actually has a good place in the meta rn; aside from being able to weather pretty much most threats and live, it also does really fine versus Rain and Azumarill. Mega Venusaur honestly puts a bit of a strain in teambuilding; you need things that are able to hit it hard, or at the very least you should have most of your mons not be sitting ducks to it or else it will come to haunt you. It's the reason why I run Psychic on my bulky Thundurus, the other being it also hits Naganadel; it might not hit hard, but at the very least it does a dent that it'll have to mind sooner or later. Usage-wise, it's in the Top 10 for both Showdown and DPL, which is not bad; the small sample size for DPL makes its W/L % in DPL suck ass, though, but it has 52% in Showdown. That kind of stats is, I think, pretty indicative of where it stands in the meta rn.


Mega Lopunny to 4

It does look meme-y but I promise you it works enough at the very least to fit into 4, not just Tier 5 which has mons no one actually uses lol. Its main draw really is its 135 Speed and Fake Out; with that Speed, it becomes really useful in checking a lot of offensive stuff in the metagame including Naganadel as it can leverage that Speed in putting them in unfavorable spots. On another note, its Fake Out (and possible Encore) is really useful for opening up opportunities. Mega Lop isn't the type of Mega that carries teams on its own like Mega Gard or MVenu; rather, it's more of a dedicated offense enabler that helps the likes of Azumarill and Volcarona get going. This Pokemon has actually seen enough usage for consideration, so take that as you will.


Mega Lucario to 3

Mega Lucario is actually one of the braziest attackers in the tier, and it's actually pretty effective too. Let's get this out of the way first: 57% winrate in Showdown while 15th in usage, and 2/3 in DPL (not including Playoffs yet don't but we also won w/ him too in Finals). Now, those aren't amazing stats considering the sample size, but at the very least, they're Tier 3 stats. This really shouldn't be sitting at 5. Its STAB CC is the most painful thing to come into cuz it's just damn strong, and its 112 Speed helps a lot too. In addition, its access to ESpeed also lets it get around Talonflame, Swift Swim Colo, Thundurus, and Naga too so they have to be, at the very least, wary of that option. Essentially, what I'm saying is that this doesn't suck ass and is actually pretty good.

*Note: Usage Stats used are up to Week 5 for DPL and Semis for Showdown cuz that's only what I have atm (that's like only 5 games max tho so :blobshrug:)
 

Yoda2798

Not the user you are looking for
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Doubles Leader
Hi, I agree with pretty much all the noms above so just adding a couple more of my own for things I think deserve a rise but are unmentioned.


Persian-Alola UR->4
Persian-Alola @ Mago Berry
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Parting Shot
- Taunt

Persian-Alola's role is being a fast support mon, mainly for HO type of teams. The combination of Fake Out and a fast Taunt is good at disrupting the opponents strategy, and unlike Thundurus, its Taunt is not blocked by Tsareena. On that note, it's also worth mentioning that being a Dark type makes you immune to Prankster Taunt, which is nice. But what really makes Persian useful, IMO, is its access to the move Parting Shot. This lowers a foe's Attack and Special Attack by 1 and then switches Persian out. What this means is that Persian-Alola is great at supporting setup Pokemon. For example, if you have Persian and a setup mon out, you can use Fake Out as you setup then use Parting Shot the next turn before the opponent attacks since you're so fast, while the setup mon hopefully can take out the other foe. Bonus points for switching into Intimidate on a physical attacker to put them at -2. Defensively, Fur Coat lets Persian take some physical hits despite it's low stats; with Mago Berry allowing it to take a few weaker physical attacks, or to survive a boosted hit from full HP. Persian can usually tank one neutral special attack, but it's best to just avoid them, going for Parting Shot into something which comfortably takes the hit. STAB Foul Play lets Persian do something offensively without any attack investment, particularly against anything with high attack, and especially against premier mon in the tier Metagross. It's also usually enough to help if you're just missing out on a KO with something else to finish it off/put it in range. Persian does have some other possible options such as Feint, Roar, or even just Protect, but I think the moveset above is the most effective. Persian had a couple of uses in the DUU tour, where it picked up wins, but no uses in DPL, so I think people are really sleeping on this mon despite it having a solid niche.

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 232 HP / 24 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 279-328 (84.8 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, then Persian does 71 - 84.1% back with Foul Play
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 232 HP / 24 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 231-273 (70.2 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO , with Foul Play doing 56.1 - 66% in return
0 Atk Persian-Alola Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 240-284 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, using the bulkiest Meta spread with low Attack
0 Atk Persian-Alola Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 282-332 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO , using 252/252 offensive Meta spread


Landorus 4->2

Landorus is placed a bit too low on the VR at the moment IMO. Yes, Water types (namely Rain) and Thundurus (which outspeeds/tanks a hit and uses HP Ice) give Landorus trouble, but outside of those Landorus is really great right now. It's so powerful and can destroy most things slower than it, which many common things in the meta right now are. Earth Power coming off Life Orb+Sheer Power is really strong, and can importantly OHKO Metagross (bar fat AV variants), while the standard coverage of Psychic and Sludge Bomb hits a wide range of threats for big damage. However, other moves like Rock Slide and HP Ice can help against specific threats (the former for mainly Volcarona and Flying types, the latter really just for Garchomp or opposing Landorus). I've also seen a Scarf set with U-turn used, which can outspeed Volcarona/Zard X at +1, and Modest Ludicolo in rain, which is definitely cool, but the common Life Orb special attacker is the primary set and one to be judged. So basically, Landorus hits really hard and its speed let it match up well in the meta, as reflected by it going postive in its few DPL uses, and being 10th in usage in DUU tour with a respectable 59% win rate.
 
Last edited:

Idyll

xD
is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
RBTT Champion
In the spirit of giving, here's 3 of what I consider to be some of the better DUU teams I built, including the two teams that Akaru used in DPL. :blobthumbsup:

Double Bunny Offense

Big Lop (Lopunny-Mega) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Encore

Big Gross (Metagross) @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Stomping Tantrum

Big Azu (Azumarill) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Return
- Belly Drum
- Protect

Big Clef (Clefable) @ Mago Berry
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Follow Me
- Icy Wind
- Protect

Big Gar (Gengar) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Icy Wind
- Taunt

Big Thund (Thundurus) @ Mago Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 68 SpA / 60 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt

The concept of this team is to set up an opportunity for Azumarill to win; to reach that end, the team is filled with pieces that can give Azumarill openings and / or disrupt the opponent enough to win. Mega Lopunny is the foundational piece to this team's creation as the idea is to give Azumarill chances with Fake Out while also being able to check down most offensive forces in the metagame. Clefable is there to also give Azumarill chances to set up, while Thundurus and Gengar are there to provide disruption and function as flex checks to whatever as needed when things go awry, considering how their utility is so universal. The double Taunt shtick can be pretty nifty as well since this should deny whatever set-up options an opponent can go for most of the time, while double Icy Wind is there to provide additional flexibility and disruption for Azumarill and Metagross. CB Metagross is the team's primary breaker and flex revenge killer, used mostly for chunking as much as possible and in general giving the team an actual threat outside of shenanigans. Make no mistake though, this is no one-dimensional all-or-nothing team that focuses on Azu; all the pieces here are flexible and strong enough to actually win on their own, and they should be played as such while at the same time keeping an eye out for openings to BD.

EV Notes
  • Metagross can outrun up to Mega Lucario after an Icy Wind
  • Azumarill can outrun up to 222 after an Icy Wind, aimed at Mega Venusaur primarily.
  • Clef makes Azu PRough a 4HKO w/ Mago Berry
  • Thund lives Modest LO Ludicolo Hydro in the rain, LO Krook Stone Edge, outruns invested +nature 70s

Mega Venusaur Balance

NATSUZORA (Venusaur-Mega) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 76 SpA / 80 SpD / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Synthesis

MIRROR (Metagross) @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Stomping Tantrum

SPACEJELLYFISH (Blacephalon) @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Protect

SNEAKER (Naganadel) @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- Tailwind

DEAR (Landorus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Rock Slide
- Protect

SEE YOU (Thundurus) @ Mago Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 68 SpA / 60 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt


This is the team I used vs talkingtree in DPL and it's also the first one I've ever built for the new metagame. It didn't win that game but it's done fine everywhere else including ladder so yeah. Basically, the idea is to leverage as much good match-ups as possible and punish with your true offensive pieces. The team has all the tools needed to take charge, just try not to get in the loop of being too reactive I guess. Mega Venu and Thund fits as the backbone of this team when things go south and gets a bit too pressure. The other pieces don't need much explanation; the one quirk pick in Blacephalon is there so I can beat up some TR leads and in general it's a neat punisher as well, though it needs some brazen playing I suppose.

EV Notes
  • Mega Venusaur takes Flare Blitz from +1 Jolly XZard and Psychic from LO Latios (Timid MGard Psychic by extension). Outruns Rotom-W I guess lol.
  • Thund lives Modest LO Ludicolo Hydro in the rain, LO Krook Stone Edge, outruns invested +nature 70s
  • Metagross outruns Pheromosa in Tailwind


MLuke + DD Gyara ft. AV Kyurem

Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
- Extreme Speed
- Protect

Gyarados @ Normalium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 56 HP / 160 Atk / 76 SpD / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

Volcarona @ Passho Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 44 SpA / 72 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Bug Buzz
- Tailwind
- Rage Powder

Kyurem @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 32 SpA / 136 SpD / 56 Spe
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Glaciate
- Earth Power
- Rock Slide

Thundurus @ Mago Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 68 SpA / 60 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt

Naganadel @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect

The idea for this team came from specifically using AV Kyurem for Hashtag which was suggested to me by the Messis. I've noticed that it dunks a lot of his builds if paired with the appropriate support for its specific checks like Metagross and Mega Gardevoir. Generally, though, I've noticed that it dunks a lot of builds in general since it checks so damn much as it's quite literally the fattest pivot in the meta. To that end, I've paired it with three general strong attackers, the most notable of which being Mega Lucario. DD Gyara is here to bring some endgame power to the squad, Naganadel brings another offensive piece that, though weaker, features more coverage adn Speed, and RP TWind Volc is primarily here for the Tailwind but RP also works nastily with any of my attackers. It's Passho Volc because the Rain match-up is made pretty much unlosable at that point lol. Thundurus glues the team in general, its ability to blanket check whatever with Thunder Wave and Taunt proving quite handy for most purposes. Basically, the plan is to just beat stuff up as much as possible, leveraging the support pieces if need be.

EV Notes
  • Volcarona outruns +nature +1 base 100s in Tailwind, lives Jolly XZard Flare Blitz and Hydro Vortex from Modest Ludicolo in the rain.
  • Gyarados outruns Greninja at +1, gets as much Attack as possible while having as much balanced bulk that also makes Timid MGard HVoice as 3HKO.
  • AV Kyurem makes Timid MGard HVoice a 3HKO, lives Azu PRough (and LO Bisharp Iron Head lol), and outruns max Speed neutral base 70s
 

n10siT

Hoopa can do anything!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
ill add a quick couple of noms here

Salamence 5 -> UR:
lol at this mon

Kyurem UR -> 4 or 5:
this has seen some limited success, AV or Scarf sets have merit and its pretty good vs like thund/grass/naga cores, weird speed tier and average offenses make me hesitate on this mon tho

Hoopa-C 4->5:
having this in the same tier as meloetta is lol, this thing is bad vs a lot of stuff and its rly hard to set tr with this, only thing keeping it 5 is the super positive matchup with like gross/naga/garde/venu

Gigalith 5->4:
HOT mon, easily one of the best mons on any TR team, semi or full. bad metagross matchup but u can even run fun lure sets like z-eq for that, curse z-rock is busted too.
 
i only built one team for that tour but heres my contribution to the metagame:
Raikou @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Politoed @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Encore
- Haze

Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Muddy Water
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect

Metagross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Iron Head
- Stomping Tantrum
- Rock Slide

Talonflame @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Taunt
- Protect

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Protect

metagross is the best pokemon in the format btw
 

Yoda2798

Not the user you are looking for
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Doubles Leader
In the spirit of other people posting their teams, I will post the two teams I used in DPL, as well as a team I've used recently to reach #1 on the DUU ladder!

Team used Week 3 against nvakna (W)

Shayman (Shaymin-Sky) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seed Flare
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Protect

Tsunderus (Thundurus) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 52 SpA / 64 SpD / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave

Lady Gargar (Gardevoir-Mega) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Trick Room
- Protect

in a while (Krookodile) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Grievous (Metagross) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Stomping Tantrum
- Bullet Punch

Volcanion (Volcarona) @ Firium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Protect

This team was built to be general goodstuffs, starting from the pair of Skymin and Thundurus, which provide speed control and can stop Trick Room, which is what I was expecting to face. Mega Gardevoir is a good mega, helps against Dragons, and also has TR to further improve that matchup. Krookodile has Intimidate and helps against Metagross, also Earthquake is strong, and with two flyers can clean up well due to Scarf. Metagross gives some nice resistances and bulk, and is fast with Stomping Tantrum to help with opposing Metagross. Volcarona is a Fire type, and gives a clear win condition for the team. Thundurus spread is the VR spread with 4 EVs from Defence moved to Speed to creep other Thundurus, Gardevoir is Telepathy for Earthquake, and the Krookodile spread hits 300 Speed, so you outspeed neutral nature Zard X/Volcarona at +1 (which I don't think is good or common, but the chance if it comes down to it is nice). The nicknames were just various things I thought of from each Pokemon's name and appearance. I think this team is pretty good, and it did manage to win the DPL game it was used in.

Team used Week 4 against Nido-Rus (L)

Garychomp (Garchomp-Mega) @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge
- Protect

ToGarykiss (Togekiss) @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 60 SpD / 100 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Follow Me
- Tailwind
- Helping Hand

MetaGary (Metagross) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 148 SpD / 72 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Ice Punch

Garydos (Gyarados) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 116 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt

VolcGaryona (Volcarona) @ Firium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Protect


Not Gary (Roserade) @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Protect

This team was built around the idea of SD Mega Garchomp + Togekiss, with Chomp being able to go to town with +2 Earthquake under Tailwind. Metagross is there because it's so good, and helps with Garde and the Ice weakness. Bulky Gyarados provides Intimidate and helps against rain; Volcarona is a Fire, isn't weak to Intimidate, and gives another set up option (importantly, with Speed); and Roserade is a Grass type that can help deal with Thundurus. Garchomp spread creeps 263, Togekiss is spread in VR, Metagross is AV spread in VR but with speed creep taken from the Sp Def EVs, can't remember what Gyarados spread does :x. Gary nicknames are because I thought of it from Garchomp and it seemed to fit other stuff as well, Roserade is Not Gary because I thought it wouldn't fit and to have one different (although it could be GaRyoserade instead I guess). This team lost against Nido, with his Moltres KOing Volcarona and severely weakening Metagross, as well as setting TW to cancel out my own, then Scarf Vanilluxe cleaning up. I don't think this team is too great, but the Chomp + Kiss core could maybe work on a different team.

Team used to top the DUU ladder

Naganadel @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Tailwind
- Protect

Entei @ Figy Berry
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Roar
- Protect

Thundurus @ Electrium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

Persian-Alola @ Mago Berry
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Parting Shot
- Taunt

Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Icy Wind
- Protect

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Spore
- Protect

This final team I'm very proud of, and has done consistently well on the ladder for me, with only a few losses, which are mainly due to my own incompetence. Fellow storms member Laptops had been using and given me a HO setup team with Landorus/Charizard-X/Metagross/Gyarados/Persian-A/Tsarenna. The team was quite fun, and more importantly, opened my eyes to the utility of Persian-Alola, so I made my own team with it. I can't remember the exact teambuilding process, but I wanted to use Nagadanel since I hadn't yet, and paired it with Entei to take care of Steels. Beyond that, I think I just added stuff that's good, fitted the team, and helped vs ladder gimmicks stuff. I had Pokemon with Roar, Spore, and Fake Out/Taunt so I could safely deal with whatever "strategy" the ladder was using, Trick Room included. I also had a fair amount of priority, and my own speed control as well to help control the flow of the match. I think what the team lacks the most is defensive capabilities (read: bulk); but even then Entei can take hits and spread burns, while Persian can stomach physical hits and use Parting Shot to soften attacks for teammates, with Gardevoir having serviceable special bulk as well. Sets wise, I originally had a bulkier Gardevoir set, and less speed on Entei, but I really think having the speed is better. This team works best when you're moving first, which is usually easy to do from the combination of naturally fast mons, speed control, and playing well. Looking back I don't remember using Icy Wind on Gardevoir much, so trying something else would be good, but that aside this is a Yoda certified team which has proven to be solid against ladder and actual players alike.
 

EmbCPT

VGC 2022 Masters Champion
I have absolutely no idea what Nihilego is doing in UR, but I really want to nominate it to at least tier 3. It has the ability to OHKO 5/7 of the tier 2 mons, hits for super effective damage vs most of the meta, hard checks Volcarona, Thundurus, Clefable and many other Pokémon. Its high Special Defense lets it tank most special hits, making most special attackers lose to it 1v1. Beast Boost lets it secure multiple KO's after catching just 1 of the multiple Pokémon that are weak to it. Nihilego is an absolute monster in this meta and I'm only staying by tier 3 because 2 would be too much of a shock.
 
Last edited:

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
I have absolutely no idea what Nihilego is doing in UR, but I really want to nominate it to at least tier 3. It has the ability to OHKO 5/7 of the tier 2 mons, hits for super effective damage vs most of the meta, hard checks Volcarona, Thundurus, Clefable and many other Pokémon. Its high Special Defense lets it tank most special hits, making most special attackers lose to it 1v1. Beast Boost lets it secure multiple KO's after catching just 1 of the multiple Pokémon that are weak to it. Nihilego is an absolute monster in this meta and I'm only staying by tier 3 because 2 would be too much of a shock.
Even though you say you're nomming it to 3, I'm going to address why it should not be in 2 - it's not nearly as good as Nagandel is at what it does, period. The extra bulk doesn't make up for the worse speed or movepool.

From there, I've been testing Nihilego quite a bit and I think that the meta just is not that kind to Nihilego - Skymins often run Earth Power, bulky Gardevoir lives a LO sludge bomb and then sets TR/icy winds/just kills Nihilego, Metagross is running things, etc. I will conceed that it's an excellent check to the majority of thundurus sets, but it needs a life orb to beat bulky sets that are becoming more common - and that's the root of most of the issues I have with Nihilego. I often feel it needs a life orb to really accomplish what it sets out to do, but without a resist berry/z-move it can struggle versus faster or bulkier threats - every sample team has 2 pretty good Nihilego checks despite it being unlikely it was a concern while building. It also has a pretty horrendous matchup versus most trick room builds at the moment.

That being said, I'd be fine with it being ranked in 5 for now - I've been using it myself some and it can do a lot to certain builds. It has some versatility - I've been using a very bulky AV set with Acid Spray, and Z-moves are usable - but I feel that the meta trends aren't that favorable to it, and it was unranked in a meta that wasn't that much less unfavorable.
 

n10siT

Hoopa can do anything!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
VR update time! We will be adopting the new DOU policy by voting on everything in tier 5 once per month. We will not keep to any sort of schedule, seeing as these updates generally only happen post-tournament and when usage changes occur. In other news, Memoric's Mega Venusaur balance is now a sample.

Persian-A UR -> 4
  • N10sit: im not sold here. I used this some after yodas nom and it was very disappointing. Parting shot fake out taunt is super good but only sometimes? Im a 5 right now and i may even change this to UR
  • Talkingtree: Yoda’s done enough with it that it deserves 5
  • Lord death man: i think 5, it has a niche but its also awful.
  • Demantoid: 5 it seems okay
  • Marilli: 5 is ok fake out and theres definitely some synergy with some of the brokenmons, not really the best standalone poke but meh

Landorus-I 4 -> 2
  • N10sit: yeah 2 this things bananas rn
  • Talkingtree: 2 easy, don’t need to explain it
  • Lord death man: 2, excellent vs a lot of teams and rarely not useful.
  • Demantoid: 2, hits everything for a lot of damage with a pretty good speed tier
  • Marilli: ok 2

Metagross 3 -> 2 -> 1
  • N10sit: 1 rofl i cant believe its this good but it is
  • Talkingtree: 1 metagross is *sogood*
  • Lord death man: 1. Dumb good.
  • Demantoid: 1 :sogood: only good steel basically
  • Marilli: 1 only good steel yeah

Tsareena 3 -> 2
  • N10sit: this is like 2.5, its rly good if u happen to catch azu but if u dont like ??? cool tsareena bro, stays 3 for me
  • Talkingtree: 2, I’m a big believer in tsareena, it’s useful for more than just azu with knock off / feint / u-turn / helping hand as all great supporting moves
  • Lord death man: 2 i guess. It feels like the best thing in 3 or one of the worst in 2. Its fantastic support except for when its not.
  • Demantoid: 2, Tsareena is sogood. It does have some bad matchups but it’s useful in most matches but it’s super splashable.
  • Marilli: 3 i don’t like this mon, i know it’s used a lot and can do dece damage when your opponent doesnt bring out one of 20 different types that resist grass, but just feels super useless and passive whenever your opponent doesn’t have an azumarill. and yes it can do more than just beat azu in theory but in practice it’s a bad mon not vs azu because it doesn’t really develop your gameplan aside from that azu matchup. Too situational, tho nice prep bro.

Mega Venusaur 3 -> 2
  • N10sit: 2 arguably best mega atm
  • Talkingtree: 2 yep
  • Lord death man: 2. This holds bulkier teams together pretty much.
  • Demantoid: 2 one of the few good bulky metas right now.
  • Marilli: 2 this is good obviously

Mega Lopunny UR -> 4
  • N10sit: UR f off memo (jk this is a solid 5, fast fake out and hjk and encore or ice punch)
  • Talkingtree: 4, I think memo’s right on here, read his nom
  • Lord death man: 5, i think 4 is kind of pushing it, it does some good stuff but it can also be a liability while taking up your mega slot.
  • Demantoid: 5 seems about as good as mega aero as a support mega
  • Marilli: 5 good support mega but that speed tier isn’t super contested and its damage often leaves much to be desired.

Mega Lucario 5 ->4->3
  • N10sit: 3 as hell, so so so strong and meteor mash actually makes this usable
  • Talkingtree: 3, I’d even be okay with 2. Mega Lucario is incredible
  • Lord death man: 3. My nom i think.
  • Demantoid: 3, This things is so annoying because it hits so hard :I
  • Marilli: 3 :sogood:

Krookodile 3->4->5
  • N10sit: im honestly UR on this. If i rly desperately need intimidate im using hitmontop or gyarados and i hate using a ground type not named lando i.
  • Talkingtree: 4, Krookodile’s still good for role compression (beats metagross, has intimidate, sets SR, knock off utility). Maybe I’m the only believer in it but Krookodile still has merit
  • Lord death man: 5. My nom.
  • Demantoid: 5, krook’s typing is :sobad:
  • Marilli: 4 i like the utility of intimidate which goes well with other brokenmons in the tier. Honestly can’t be serious saying that gyarados is ~ that ~ better of an intimidator.

Talonflame UR-> 4
  • N10sit: 5 for me, fast flying move is great but being forced into jolly by naganadel makes u hit so fucking weak, u require the Z move to do any damage and it takes some skill to preserve gale wings but can provide a large momentum shift in the right position
  • Talkingtree: abstain
  • Lord death man: 4. My nom.
  • Demantoid: 5
  • Marilli: 5

Araquanid UR->5
  • N10sit: 5 this has merit
  • Talkingtree: abstain
  • Lord death man: 5. My nom.
  • Demantoid: idk I haven’t seen this much. Resists a lot of hits but mono-water doesn’t have great coverage
  • Marilli: 5 ive seen this be pretty good in practice games

Rotom-Wash 3->5
  • N10sit: UR honestly im so appalled by this pokemon every time i use it like it just sucks
  • Talkingtree: 5, the support it provides is almost entirely better done by thund
  • Lord death man: 5. My nom.
  • Demantoid: UR maybe 5, I’m not even sure what it’s supposed to check besides a few waters and less relevant fires
  • Marilli: 5 don’t see it much, 3 if you’re nvakna and can play the right ally switch every turn

Infernape 5->UR
  • N10sit: yeah i can feel this UR, i like mega lop or top or yama or salamander better
  • Talkingtree: UR
  • Lord death man: yes. My nom.
  • Demantoid: UR Doesn’t have good coverage against most top ranked mons
  • Marilli: yikes yeah bad mon.

Salazzle UR->5
  • N10sit: fire poison is nasty good coverage, requires sash but it has fake out and encore and shit this things good
  • Talkingtree: 4 tbh, I really like the lizard
  • Lord death man: 5. my nom.
  • Demantoid: 5 Does have good coverage against some top ranked mons
  • Marilli: 5 fine

Rhyperior 5->UR
  • N10sit: no, this is still okay, its different than gigalith where i think u can effectively use rhyperior on non trick room stuff
  • Talkingtree: no, it’s a gigalith that fully invalidates thund instead of just checking it, also actually beats metagross with the right set, gigalith can only dream of doing that.
  • Lord death man: yes. My nom.
  • Demantoid: abstain
  • Marilli: no rhyperiors still alright

Aerodactyl-Mega 5->UR
  • N10sit: i actually agree with this nom, fast rock type isnt worth this truly butthole mega that literally loses the 1v1 with leech seed venu like are u kidding me
  • Talkingtree: 5, this has the fast support angle that works for mega lop imo
  • Lord death man: no, i know i nommed this but this is one of the few i think deserves to stay ranked.
  • Demantoid: lord death mish not even agreeing with his own nom I:, abstain
  • Marilli: abstain

Conkeldurr 5->UR
  • N10sit: this is hella UR, yama totally outclasses
  • Talkingtree: UR
  • Lord death man: yes. My nom.
  • Demantoid: UR other fightings better right now
  • Marilli: yeah ur don’t see this mon much at all, tho it’s probably good enough to be used in practice.

Primarina 5->UR:
  • N10sit: UR imagine using a tier 5 water fairy instead of the tier 1 mon
  • Talkingtree: UR
  • Lord death man: yes. My nom.
  • Demantoid: UR mishi’s waifu no longer has very many good matchups like before
  • Marilli: ur :ultramish: same here

Mamoswine 5->UR
  • N10sit: the coverage here is too good, stays in 5 for me. beats meta and lando and naga and toge!
  • Talkingtree: UR, though I could see it rising back up if someone makes it work
  • Lord death man: yes. My nom.
  • Demantoid: 5, it still has really good coverage and priority is always nice
  • Marilli: 5 the coverage is still really nice and is a threat when played right

Linoone 5->UR
  • N10sit: yeah fine bye linoone
  • Talkingtree: UR
  • Lord death man: yes. My nom.
  • Demantoid: UR haven’t seen linoone
  • Marilli: sobad

Milotic 5->UR
  • N10sit: this should stay, had a bad tour but has a place
  • Talkingtree: 5, still has its niche
  • Lord death man: no, this is the other one i think i nomed that should stay. It did, however, do bad in the tour.
  • Demantoid: 5 lord death mish sobad
  • Marilli: huh hows this ur actually usable and has enough a niche

Xurkitree 5->UR
  • N10sit: fine, bye christmas tree
  • Talkingtree: UR :(
  • Lord death man: yes. My nom.
  • Demantoid: UR :[
  • Marilli: never seen, ur is good until someone actually shows otherwise

Necrozma 3->5
  • N10sit: this is an overreaction, i think 3 is fine for it, its got a lot of pretty positive matchups, it just had a bad tour
  • Talkingtree: agree with n10sit about this being an overreaction, but I think 4 might fit better. Its ability to take super effective hits always makes it seem bulkier than it really is, so stronger neutral hits just rock it
  • Lord death man: yes, this hasn’t been used much or done well.
  • Demantoid: 4 This mon always makes me disappointed when I try to make an ev spread for it but it has good coverage and spa
  • Marilli: 4 is fine, its strong and got the offenses and bulk to be better than 5.

Garchomp UR->3
  • N10sit: this is also an overreaction but a slight one, i think this goes in 4. I was wrong abt it and it has carved out a considerable niche
  • Talkingtree: yes to 4, abstain to 3.
  • Lord death man: yes. this did really well for being UR.
  • Demantoid: 3 Solid physical attacker with good bulk and speed
  • Marilli: 3 garchomp is actually good lmao

Salamence 5->UR
  • N10sit: why was this ever ranked
  • Talkingtree: UR
  • Lord death man: i like this but it does suck. UR
  • Demantoid: UR more like salamish
  • Marilli: ur

Kyurem UR->4 or 5
  • N10sit: my nom, if i have to tiebreak i say 5
  • Talkingtree: 4 seems alright, being setup bait for azu and metagross food are unfortunate but it still has a lot of good matchups
  • Lord death man: 4, its surprisingly good.
  • Demantoid: 4 good bulk and okay coverage with speed control
  • Marilli: 4 yeah this was decently good in testing games

Hoopa-C 4->5
  • N10sit: my nom :( sorry hoopa u can still do anything
  • Talkingtree: yep
  • Lord death man: 5 i forgot this existed but it does straight up eat a very specific but popular team build
  • Demantoid: UR tbh get rid of the n10sit mon
  • Marilli: abstain

Gigalith 5->4
  • N10sit: my nom
  • Talkingtree: yea gigalith is scary under the right circumstances
  • Lord death man: sure.
  • Demantoid: yes sandy boi
  • Marilli: sure idk.

Nihilego UR -> 3
  • N10sit: this fucking sucks, its literally impossible to position correctly because its so bad vs everything thats good, even the stuff it beats has a partner next to it that just beats this, its ass, UR
  • Talkingtree: 5, never wanted to UR this but lando’s better on almost every build unless you’re solid against metagross but weak to opposing lando-i
  • Lord death man: abstain.
  • Demantoid: 4 Has bad matchup against azu, gross, and rain but beats a lot of other common things and has good offensive presence
  • Marilli: 4 nihilegos got alright offensive presence but its poor defensive matchups hurt it too much to be 3


Results:
Persian-Alola: UR -> Tier 5
Landorus-I
: Tier 4 -> Tier 2
Metagross
: Tier 3 -> Tier 1
Tsareena
: Tier 3 -> Tier 2
Mega Venusaur
: Tier 3 -> Tier 2
Mega Lopunny
: UR -> Tier 5
Mega Lucario
: Tier 5 -> Tier 3
Krookodile
: Tier 3 -> Tier 5
Talonflame
: UR -> Tier 5
Araquanid
: UR -> Tier 5
Rotom-Wash
: Tier 3 -> Tier 5
Infernape
: Tier 5 -> UR
Salazzle
: UR -> Tier 5
Conkeldurr
: Tier 5 -> UR
Primarina
: Tier 5 -> UR
Linoone
: Tier 5 -> UR
Xurkitree
: Tier 5 -> UR
Necrozma
: Tier 3 -> Tier 4
Garchomp
: UR -> Tier 3
Salamence
: Tier 5 -> UR
Kyurem
: UR -> Tier 4
Hoopa-C
: Tier 4 -> Tier 5
Gigalith
: Tier 5 -> Tier 4
Nihilego
: UR -> Tier 5
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top