Tournament Ubers Premier League VI - Community Center

The Dovahneer

UPL Champion
One unfortunate thing about oldgens nowadays is that the only real playerpool that saw any kind of spike is ADV, like a lot of old BW players are gone and theres what, 3 active dpp players? Oldgens are one of the best things about ubers and seeing the player pool shrink like this is kinda sad honestly.

A multigen slot does sound like a good idea especially since it encourages people to get good at multiple gens instead of maining a single tier, something which I feel a good amount of people don't do enough of. Oldgens are fun as hell and you can still experiment with them to boot too!
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hi, this post is a long time coming.

Obviously this is prompted by my UPL team being given away by hosts who are both inexperienced in UPL and who are out of touch with the events that transpired last year. In short, I was not selected to return as a manager this season due to Cipher's poor performance last season. On the surface this seems like a reasonable conclusion, but the hosts have demonstrated that they are clueless as to the circumstances that plagued us and did not provide us with rational consideration.

At this point it's no secret that one of our team members from last year, Kill The Messenger is an alt of the banned user Konzern. KTM is a user that Colonel M and I discussed very early on in UPL, and after several tryouts we decided to pick him up as a sub - after all, scouting new talent is a key part of UPL. It was not until after the draft that I began to suspect, and then confirm, that KTM was a Konzern alt. From the moment of suspicion, this struck any chance for him to start, as it would put our team at risk if it was found that we allowed a suspected banned alt to participate. This did not sit well with KTM.

After the draft I was contacted by senior staff with inquiries to WhiteLion. In short, they had explicitly told me that they had ties to a banned user. As a result, I communicated with Fireburn on the issue and had to bench WhiteLion in a similar fashion to KTM. This did not sit well with him either. It turned out that WhiteLion had shared accounts with said banned user, which opened up a bunch of doors to dark places. In short, our team could not afford to make much use or contact with WhiteLion either. I do not have any animosity or blame WhiteLion for what happened, but this pretty much tied my hands and prevented me from allowing him to participate despite his enthusiasm.

As if this wasn't enough, following the suspicions of KTM I had uncovered evidence that Holy Break was ghosted through his UPL tryouts, through other games, and was also connected to KTM. For the sake of the rest of the team and the integrity of UPL, I had no choice but to also bench Holy Break, which again, they were not too thrilled about. As a result our team was down three players, all of whom were frustrated in different ways. In a normal PL-tour there's a midseason to help guard against things such as this, but UPL V decided not to have one this time around, leaving our team in even more trouble than it was otherwise.

By the middle of the tour I had done enough investigating to conclude that our team's builds were being leaked, which is especially apparent in Orch's games, and vs. Helix (not a coincidence they have ties to STAG). It wasn't until much later and after the SPL VIII invalidation that I dug deeper and found that the same bot that Mazar used to cheat through SPL was also used to feed our teams to the opponents. So now not only were we down three players, but our teams were being leaked. Chat broke down because everyone knew teams were being leaked. Cohesion was lost. We no longer even shared importables. Testing was done in secret. Orch disappeared.

It doesn't take a master tactician to realize why Cipher had such a poor performance last season. It's virtually impossible for any manager to lead their team to victory when you can't even discuss teams together. It's hard to get pumped up for your next game when your opponent will have the perfect CT. It's hard to look back on the experience with pride when you lost every week. I'm actually shocked more people didn't complain about the experience, or didn't call me out as being a terrible manager, but I guess this community is less toxic than everyone makes it out to be.

I strongly considered making this post at the end of last UPL, but did not for several reasons. One was because it would've kicked up, in my evaluation, a lot of drama. I was mindful of my position as a manager and was not about to make a big mess in the tournament, despite it being the truth. I gave this community the benefit of the doubt - that they understood our team had challenging circumstances we had to deal with, and spared them this post. The hosts of this UPL did not give us the same benefit. Instead they were keen on making jokes day after day on discord about their refusal to post the manager list and subsequently selected me as the individual to bear the brunt of all of last year's circumstances that were beyond our team's control.

There is little that can be done now as it's all in the past, and it wouldn't be fair to rescind one of the select managers for this season. It also isn't right that the decision behind my team being cut was based on misperception and misinformation by hosts that also coincidently lack substantial UPL playing or managing experience. It's hard for even seasoned TDs to make good calls in tournaments, but this incident leaves me skeptical of the hosts' capacity to make informed and rational decisions. At any point they could've easily reached out to the managers themselves and had them explain each of their positions. They could've been in the know, they've could've made a more informed decision, but they didn't even try, and I'm not yet sure if I'm going to take the time to play in a tournament that is in their hands.

They already gave my UPL team away, next they'll be giving my win to an opponent who timed out.
 
By the middle of the tour I had done enough investigating to conclude that our team's builds were being leaked, which is especially apparent in Orch's games, and vs. Helix (not a coincidence they have ties to STAG).
didn't 100% read this huge wall of text but you mention my games here as a baseline of your player's bad matchups. level 56 passed me the g1 team to use and g2 i used a popular variation of absolute control with magearna>klefki. I just reused teams for the entire tour and if you think people were crafting elaborate counterteams you're trippin and are making excuses for yourself. Unless you think Level 56 was also in on the "bot" topkek.

Also I was the one who reported to fireburn that kill the messenger was konzern before the tour even started so don't put the whole "ties to stag" shit in your post when we had no involvement with you picking up banned users after you also mentored their alts.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
didn't 100% read this huge wall of text but you mention my games here as a baseline of your player's bad matchups. level 56 passed me the g1 team to use and g2 i used a popular variation of absolute control with magearna>klefki. I just reused teams for the entire tour and if you think people were crafting elaborate counterteams you're trippin and are making excuses for yourself. Unless you think Level 56 was also in on the "bot" topkek.

Also I was the one who reported to fireburn that kill the messenger was konzern before the tour even started so don't put the whole "ties to stag" shit in your post when we had no involvement with you picking up banned users after you also mentored their alts.
I never mentioned your games specifically, rather other members on that team. Please don't strawman my post and don't take it personally. Nothing here criticizes your selection as a manager and you should absolutely be one of the six.
 
Hi, this post is a long time coming.

Obviously this is prompted by my UPL team being given away by hosts who are both inexperienced in UPL and who are out of touch with the events that transpired last year. In short, I was not selected to return as a manager this season due to Cipher's poor performance last season. On the surface this seems like a reasonable conclusion, but the hosts have demonstrated that they are clueless as to the circumstances that plagued us and did not provide us with rational consideration.

At this point it's no secret that one of our team members from last year, Kill The Messenger is an alt of the banned user Konzern. KTM is a user that Colonel M and I discussed very early on in UPL, and after several tryouts we decided to pick him up as a sub - after all, scouting new talent is a key part of UPL. It was not until after the draft that I began to suspect, and then confirm, that KTM was a Konzern alt. From the moment of suspicion, this struck any chance for him to start, as it would put our team at risk if it was found that we allowed a suspected banned alt to participate. This did not sit well with KTM.

After the draft I was contacted by senior staff with inquiries to WhiteLion. In short, they had explicitly told me that they had ties to a banned user. As a result, I communicated with Fireburn on the issue and had to bench WhiteLion in a similar fashion to KTM. This did not sit well with him either. It turned out that WhiteLion had shared accounts with said banned user, which opened up a bunch of doors to dark places. In short, our team could not afford to make much use or contact with WhiteLion either. I do not have any animosity or blame WhiteLion for what happened, but this pretty much tied my hands and prevented me from allowing him to participate despite his enthusiasm.

As if this wasn't enough, following the suspicions of KTM I had uncovered evidence that Holy Break was ghosted through his UPL tryouts, through other games, and was also connected to KTM. For the sake of the rest of the team and the integrity of UPL, I had no choice but to also bench Holy Break, which again, they were not too thrilled about. As a result our team was down three players, all of whom were frustrated in different ways. In a normal PL-tour there's a midseason to help guard against things such as this, but UPL V decided not to have one this time around, leaving our team in even more trouble than it was otherwise.

By the middle of the tour I had done enough investigating to conclude that our team's builds were being leaked, which is especially apparent in Orch's games, and vs. Helix (not a coincidence they have ties to STAG). It wasn't until much later and after the SPL VIII invalidation that I dug deeper and found that the same bot that Mazar used to cheat through SPL was also used to feed our teams to the opponents. So now not only were we down three players, but our teams were being leaked. Chat broke down because everyone knew teams were being leaked. Cohesion was lost. We no longer even shared importables. Testing was done in secret. Orch disappeared.

It doesn't take a master tactician to realize why Cipher had such a poor performance last season. It's virtually impossible for any manager to lead their team to victory when you can't even discuss teams together. It's hard to get pumped up for your next game when your opponent will have the perfect CT. It's hard to look back on the experience with pride when you lost every week. I'm actually shocked more people didn't complain about the experience, or didn't call me out as being a terrible manager, but I guess this community is less toxic than everyone makes it out to be.

I strongly considered making this post at the end of last UPL, but did not for several reasons. One was because it would've kicked up, in my evaluation, a lot of drama. I was mindful of my position as a manager and was not about to make a big mess in the tournament, despite it being the truth. I gave this community the benefit of the doubt - that they understood our team had challenging circumstances we had to deal with, and spared them this post. The hosts of this UPL did not give us the same benefit. Instead they were keen on making jokes day after day on discord about their refusal to post the manager list and subsequently selected me as the individual to bear the brunt of all of last year's circumstances that were beyond our team's control.

There is little that can be done now as it's all in the past, and it wouldn't be fair to rescind one of the select managers for this season. It also isn't right that the decision behind my team being cut was based on misperception and misinformation by hosts that also coincidently lack substantial UPL playing or managing experience. It's hard for even seasoned TDs to make good calls in tournaments, but this incident leaves me skeptical of the hosts' capacity to make informed and rational decisions. At any point they could've easily reached out to the managers themselves and had them explain each of their positions. They could've been in the know, they've could've made a more informed decision, but they didn't even try, and I'm not yet sure if I'm going to take the time to play in a tournament that is in their hands.

They already gave my UPL team away, next they'll be giving my win to an opponent who timed out.
Much of this is a lot of speculation and I don't appreciate you defaming me in such a manner. I am not this "Konzern" character you make me out to be. I heed you to find an ounce of proof for this being the case and post it.

More importantly, I do not see how my mentor, WhiteLion being connected to me had anything to do with you wanting to start him.
As I take it, during the time of this tournament, Konzern was very much involved in with people participating in this tournament and to sit them because of someones choice of friendship is quite foolish of you as a manager. Applying the same logic to people such as Melee Mewtwo and you might as well sit half of the drizzlers. These actions were yours alone and one of your many shortcomings of as a manager.

There are quite a few logical fallacies with your argument as a whole though. You mention Holy Break had to be sat during the tournament because he was connected to some :spooky: ordeals. Holy Break started W1 and was sat thereafter. However, you proceed to let him play in W5. Either you said fuck it to your moral compass which you could have done the whole time in which case the premise of your argument is invalidated entirely or your accusations against Holy Break are plain false. Either way, it proves how misguided you are.

You manage to blame your loss on many different reasons yet choose to not take responsibility for your own outcome. As someone who had an inside look into the team, there were a ton of managerial issues which caused an expontential decay of the team. While being heavily involved with QC during ORAS AND SM, you did not provide any support in those tiers. More so, you created an atmosphere where talking in games was not only allowed but also encouraged. I can remember talking through plays with "PROBLEMS" during his BO3 vs Hack as well as other members giving some forms of insights. Your morale compass was not effected then, so there should be no issue in starting someone who is connected to a banned user. I mean for fucks sake, you were mentored by MM2 and he's a banned user. Should you not play any tour games because of this?

TLDR: You allowed us to talk in games yet blame alt user influence as forcing u to sit players even tho udaf abt talking in games. very hypocritical. you blame bots but maybe if u helped in prep we woulda done well. my phone blew up and my sleep in india was distubed becasuse of your insulting post. Im not konzern, get a life.

don't make Minority the new messenger, we know how they'll end up.

KTM OUT
 
Hi, this post is a long time coming.

Obviously this is prompted by my UPL team being given away by hosts who are both inexperienced in UPL and who are out of touch with the events that transpired last year. In short, I was not selected to return as a manager this season due to Cipher's poor performance last season. On the surface this seems like a reasonable conclusion, but the hosts have demonstrated that they are clueless as to the circumstances that plagued us and did not provide us with rational consideration.

At this point it's no secret that one of our team members from last year, Kill The Messenger is an alt of the banned user Konzern. KTM is a user that Colonel M and I discussed very early on in UPL, and after several tryouts we decided to pick him up as a sub - after all, scouting new talent is a key part of UPL. It was not until after the draft that I began to suspect, and then confirm, that KTM was a Konzern alt. From the moment of suspicion, this struck any chance for him to start, as it would put our team at risk if it was found that we allowed a suspected banned alt to participate. This did not sit well with KTM.

After the draft I was contacted by senior staff with inquiries to WhiteLion. In short, they had explicitly told me that they had ties to a banned user. As a result, I communicated with Fireburn on the issue and had to bench WhiteLion in a similar fashion to KTM. This did not sit well with him either. It turned out that WhiteLion had shared accounts with said banned user, which opened up a bunch of doors to dark places. In short, our team could not afford to make much use or contact with WhiteLion either. I do not have any animosity or blame WhiteLion for what happened, but this pretty much tied my hands and prevented me from allowing him to participate despite his enthusiasm.

As if this wasn't enough, following the suspicions of KTM I had uncovered evidence that Holy Break was ghosted through his UPL tryouts, through other games, and was also connected to KTM. For the sake of the rest of the team and the integrity of UPL, I had no choice but to also bench Holy Break, which again, they were not too thrilled about. As a result our team was down three players, all of whom were frustrated in different ways. In a normal PL-tour there's a midseason to help guard against things such as this, but UPL V decided not to have one this time around, leaving our team in even more trouble than it was otherwise.

By the middle of the tour I had done enough investigating to conclude that our team's builds were being leaked, which is especially apparent in Orch's games, and vs. Helix (not a coincidence they have ties to STAG). It wasn't until much later and after the SPL VIII invalidation that I dug deeper and found that the same bot that Mazar used to cheat through SPL was also used to feed our teams to the opponents. So now not only were we down three players, but our teams were being leaked. Chat broke down because everyone knew teams were being leaked. Cohesion was lost. We no longer even shared importables. Testing was done in secret. Orch disappeared.

It doesn't take a master tactician to realize why Cipher had such a poor performance last season. It's virtually impossible for any manager to lead their team to victory when you can't even discuss teams together. It's hard to get pumped up for your next game when your opponent will have the perfect CT. It's hard to look back on the experience with pride when you lost every week. I'm actually shocked more people didn't complain about the experience, or didn't call me out as being a terrible manager, but I guess this community is less toxic than everyone makes it out to be.

I strongly considered making this post at the end of last UPL, but did not for several reasons. One was because it would've kicked up, in my evaluation, a lot of drama. I was mindful of my position as a manager and was not about to make a big mess in the tournament, despite it being the truth. I gave this community the benefit of the doubt - that they understood our team had challenging circumstances we had to deal with, and spared them this post. The hosts of this UPL did not give us the same benefit. Instead they were keen on making jokes day after day on discord about their refusal to post the manager list and subsequently selected me as the individual to bear the brunt of all of last year's circumstances that were beyond our team's control.

There is little that can be done now as it's all in the past, and it wouldn't be fair to rescind one of the select managers for this season. It also isn't right that the decision behind my team being cut was based on misperception and misinformation by hosts that also coincidently lack substantial UPL playing or managing experience. It's hard for even seasoned TDs to make good calls in tournaments, but this incident leaves me skeptical of the hosts' capacity to make informed and rational decisions. At any point they could've easily reached out to the managers themselves and had them explain each of their positions. They could've been in the know, they've could've made a more informed decision, but they didn't even try, and I'm not yet sure if I'm going to take the time to play in a tournament that is in their hands.

They already gave my UPL team away, next they'll be giving my win to an opponent who timed out.
Did you really make that post and not have the guts to tag me princess ms. Tryna call me a ghosting slot ? Should I tag Aeroblacktyl and see what he has to say about you and being a ghosted slot. You try to blame that shit show of a season on what exactly? I see a bunch of excuses. Konzern this and konzern that. c/p mazar bot meme. Stag ruined my upl team!!! hahaha more like the team didn't have a leader to motivate and push our team forward. Team leaks or not you didn't address the problem and all you did was stand around and let the year be a disaster. Everyone was having a nice discussion in the thread until your salty ass came along.. and I thought you were a fucking mod
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
If I tagged you, you would've simply twisted it in your own way as that’s your agenda - see Konzern's post as an example. As for last year, yes I could've done a better job. I could’ve been more available, I could’ve discussed teams more, and I could’ve done more test matches. It was my first season managing, and I invested a lot of time into making sure that this season those mistakes would be fixed, but I was not even given the chance. The purpose of my post was to highlight the adversary our team had to face because it turns out most people were not in the know. Just because you ended with a poor record and were benched, at the suggestion of several team members I might add, does not entitle you to a tantrum where you drop profanity and stoop to petty insults. That act comes off just as easy as your kawaii facade.

This season I hope you decide to play, especially under the leadership of Nayrz or Pohjis, as it’ll continue your development as a player. I’m sorry I failed you, things could have easily been different.
 
For those who didn't do so hot last year, we have this year to make them up!

To everyone who signed up / signing up / will sign up, best of luck so that the best players may be drafted!

:ghosthug:
 
Welp, I'm kinda thinking of joining this since I don't think I have joined a Smogon Ubers tourney like this in a pretty long time, but I dunno if I'd be picked since I'd probably just lose in the first round again :smogthink:

ehh, should be worth a try I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
hi, just to clarify that i disappeared because i suspected that my teams were being leaked and whatnot. so, that killed any chance of collaboration with the team and i stopped playing when our team had no chances of making into play offs in order to shield my teams.
 

The Gunner

formerly Enzo Gorlami
is a Tiering Contributor
What are people's thoughts on two players having the option of selecting BO3 over BO1 amongst themselves? I personally feel in a tier like ORAS Ubers, BO1 is very difficult to decide who the better player is, and I'm sure a large number of players agree with me. Can UPL introduce a clause which would implement this?
 

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
What are people's thoughts on two players having the option of selecting BO3 over BO1 amongst themselves? I personally feel in a tier like ORAS Ubers, BO1 is very difficult to decide who the better player is, and I'm sure a large number of players agree with me. Can UPL introduce a clause which would implement this?
i agree with that. i think this would appease the people like me who want to play more old gens as well as the people concerned about the bo3 format taxing the players. if it's entirely optional, nobody's gonna feel overworked or pressured to do something they don't have to agree to. if they do, that's on them.

would people decide this before or after a round goes up?
 
i agree with that. i think this would appease the people like me who want to play more old gens as well as the people concerned about the bo3 format taxing the players. if it's entirely optional, nobody's gonna feel overworked or pressured to do something they don't have to agree to. if they do, that's on them.

would people decide this before or after a round goes up?
doesnt matter if it's before or after the round, as long both parties consent before the battles imo.
 

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