Metagame USUM Memetagame Discussion was a mistake

[Kanmi]

I just wanna add imo optimized spreads for common mons in OU:


Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 28 HP / 12 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Recover

Explanation:
Modest should already be common enough to be accepted. 28 HP and 12 Def allows you to tank defensive Scarf Lando-T Earthquake. They run 293 Speed, max HP and 64 Atk EVs. 216 Spa is a jumppoint Spawise.

I like this spread, it also allows Mega Alakazam to tank an unbusted Acrobatics form Unburden Hawlucha 100% of the time thanks to Magic Guard, is a roll with 0 defensive investiment.

 

[robofiend]

I'd also like to stay with the topic of lures and post a core that I've been enjoying recently. Because it isn't a full team, I can't really post it in an RMT so I would appreciate help on how to finish it. But in my honest opinion right now is that the meta is in a stage where you gain an excellent advantage with surprise heat tech that turns otherwise normal battles to your favor. I think everyone can agree that the meta is kinda stale with everyone running koko/lando/mag/pex/kart/tran and all this common stuff. However, this is a core I really like because it cripples a lot of defensive switchins to pave the way for the rest of the team (which I would really like help finishing!)

Lure Nite/Ferro/Fini

Dragonite @ Assault Vest
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 112 SpA / 40 SpD / 104 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Hurricane

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulldoze
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip/Gyro Ball
- Knock Off/Spikes

Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Defog

This core functions only with a lot of prediction and smart playing to lure and cripple/threats to offense.
Dragonite: This set lures and damages heatran, magearna, toxapex (kinda), ferro, lando, zygarde, skarm, scizor, lucha, volc, tangrowth...the list goes on. Vest and the investment in addition to multiscale makes it extremely bulky and a good check to a lot of the metagame, while also being a lead that can take down lando right away, which has proven very useful. Hurricane is also really nice on rain.
Fini: The tech here is trick, which is mostly for mons like ferro, pex (typically not, most people don't stay in), zapdos, bulu, tangrowth and some others. After the trick, fini still is able to defog while sponging hits and having se STAB coverage, which is really all it needs.
Ferro: This is pretty average set, but bulldoze lures and kills heatran, while having spikes to support the others. Really you can substitute any moves in this set, it just has really good synergy with the other two.

Let me know what you think, and if you're willing, help me find an offensive core to pair with these three. Thanks!

I think Dragonite's better off with Lefties and Roost instead of AV. This set doesn't really check or lure any of the things you listed. AV Magearna, Heatran, Volcarona, Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Zygarde, MScizor, and Hawlucha aren't exactly switch-ins to the more common Z-Fly set, which often packs Fire Punch, Fly and Earthquake and has both the bulk and firepower to break things like MScizor. Furthermore, AV Mage can blast Dragonite on the switch with Ice Beam/FC (or Volt Switch out), Heatran can Toxic you or just set Rocks and run, Scizor will just U-Turn out and break your Multiscale, Lando's HP Ice and U-Turn function similarly, Tangrowth will Knock Off your vest and break Multiscale and (on the more offensive side) Lucha, Volcarona, Zygarde can all OHKO you if rocks are up (or you've taken 25% chip damage) either with setup or a coverage move. Overall, this set seems like a solution in search of a problem - I can't imagine what you'd send it in on outside of Bulu or Charizard-Y, or how it would continue to provide team support throughout a match. I say that as someone who's tried similar sets too and only failed, not just an armchair commentator.

 

[Altervisi]

I just wanna add imo optimized spreads for common mons in OU:


Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 28 HP / 12 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Recover

Explanation:
Modest should already be common enough to be accepted. 28 HP and 12 Def allows you to tank defensive Scarf Lando-T Earthquake. They run 293 Speed, max HP and 64 Atk EVs. 216 Spa is a jumppoint Spawise.



Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 232 HP / 60 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

This allows you to outspeed everything up to Scarf TTar. You lose the speedtie with Torn-T but you can still tank everything from it and get a slow U-Turn on it or just hardswitch out. HP is divisible by 3 and odd which minimizes Stealth Rocks damage and maximizes Regenerator recovery. Rest into defense. This EV optimization gives Torn-T a bit more physical bulk as well.

Modest Alakazam misses a couple of very important speed points, such as, Lopunny, +1 Gyarados, and most importantly, Adamant +1 Zygarde, which is an extremely hyped and used Mon right now. If the attack is very important for the team I'd drop coverage for Calm Mind, or drop recover with Wish/Healing Wish support and stick with Timid.

 

[LimaBean]

Modest Alakazam misses a couple of very important speed points, such as, Lopunny, +1 Gyarados, and most importantly, Adamant +1 Zygarde, which is an extremely hyped and used Mon right now. If the attack is very important for the team I'd drop coverage for Calm Mind, or drop recover with Wish/Healing Wish support and stick with Timid.

Modest Zam almost outspeeds like 95% of the metagame though with modest and hits like a truck. I'd rather it break teams with its coverage. Recover is important too because of priority or if it is widdled down by hazards. It also allows it to be healthy for those stall-ish mons and to be healthy against Heatran.

 

[VCrakeV]

Would it make sense to drop a few points from speed to increase special attack on the zam set? Assuming you go timid, you can afford to drop a few speed EVs and still outspeed +1 jolly gyarados and the standard Zygarde sets at +1 (and I'm not sure if people run 252/252/4 adamant Zygarde, but you can run 240 speed and still outspeed it at +1).

EDIT: you can actually get away with 236 speed for max speed adamant Zygarde.

 

[robopoke]

Would it make sense to drop a few points from speed to increase special attack on the zam set? Assuming you go timid, you can afford to drop a few speed EVs and still outspeed +1 jolly gyarados and the standard Zygarde sets at +1 (and I'm not sure if people run 252/252/4 adamant Zygarde, but you can run 240 speed and still outspeed it at +1).

EDIT: you can actually get away with 236 speed for max speed adamant Zygarde.

My recommendation is to always look at the OU Speedtier List to see which mons you cannot outspeed anymore. A competent player should be able to realize the benefits of dropping Speed for more bulk or Atk and which disadvantages it can bring. It is all about judging wether those gained benefits outmatch the loss of Spe for the specific team you are using.

Since EV optimizitation is not a simple topic I am surprised there is no pinned guide in the OU forum. I might make one if enough people would appreciate a guide like that.

 

[VCrakeV]

My recommendation is to always look at the OU Speedtier List to see which mons you cannot outspeed anymore. A competent player should be able to realize the benefits of dropping Speed for more bulk or Atk and which disadvantages it can bring. It is all about judging wether those gained benefits outmatch the loss of Spe for the specific team you are using.

Since EV optimizitation is not a simple topic I am surprised there is no pinned guide in the OU forum. I might make one if enough people would appreciate a guide like that.

Yeah, the mons directly below max speed zam (438) is lele/sharpedo/Zygarde, Neutral, +1 (433), so you can afford to move 16 EVs from speed to special attack.

 

[Mellow]

Yeah, the mons directly below max speed zam (438) is lele/sharpedo/Zygarde, Neutral, +1 (433), so you can afford to move 16 EVs from speed to special attack.

That would be Timid Alakazam, he is Modest. Also, in cases where the amount of stats actually gained is so little, it's better to just speedtie with other mons running the same set (speedtying other Alakazams).

 

[Altervisi]

My point was that Alakazam has means to boost it's attack ingame so there's little point sacrificing those speed marks unless you really need 3 Attacks and Recover and the attack increase for some reason. Calm Mind also boosts Zams very respectable special defense (yes I know HP sucks). This lives stuff like a Specs Koko Thunderbolt, which means you can set up on it and then OHKO.

 

[blastablasta]

Dugtrio is totally broken right guys, because it outspeeds mons that are weak to ground and KO's them while trapping, but Heatran is totally balanced even though it traps every mon slower than it and KO's with no effort.

 

[VCrakeV]

Dugtrio is totally broken right guys, because it outspeeds mons that are weak to ground and KO's them while trapping, but Heatran is totally balanced even though it traps every mon slower than it and KO's with no effort.

Arena trap is banned, so Dugtrio can't trap anything. Heatran can't simply trap and KO anything slower than it; for example, if Heatran traps Gastrodon with magma storm, it has to take Earth Power. If it wants to KO the next turn, it needs grassium z or power herb, so it can't use shuca berry.

 

[blastablasta]

you found one mon gastrodon, obviously I know arena trap is banned, and dugtrio is banned, why you brought this up, I have no idea

Bloom Doom traps Gastrodon, better question is what does Bloom Doom not trap.

 

[TPP]

Dugtrio is totally broken right guys, because it outspeeds mons that are weak to ground and KO's them while trapping, but Heatran is totally balanced even though it traps every mon slower than it and KO's with no effort.

I'll keep this short since this isn't the place to talk about banned abilities/mons, but the main difference is that before Heatran can trap something (if it hits Magma Storm), the other player can freely switch out and send in a proper switchin like Gastrodon or Zygarde. Arena Trap (and Shadow Tag) took this a step further by preventing you from switching out as soon as Dugtrio came in, which makes counterplay to avoid losing your mons extremely difficult. If you want to read more on it, here's a link to the suspect test thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...cant-escape-myself-arena-trap-banned.3613890/. They are very different and just because they can both trap something does not put them in the same boat. Everyone knows Heatran is annoying to deal with, but at the least we're able to prepare for it and have viable options for counterplay available.

you found one mon gastrodon, obviously I know arena trap is banned, and dugtrio is banned, why you brought this up, I have no idea

Bloom Doom traps Gastrodon, better question is what does Bloom Doom not trap.

Zygarde, Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Gliscor (outside of terrain), Mantine are a few that can handle Bloom Doom variants if they're healthy. It depends on the variant (Z move or Leftovers), and besides Mantine, the other 4 on this list can outspeed Heatran and force it out or heal up or generally just force it out. Not every Heatran is Bloom Doom, as Firium Z and Leftovers are viable options too, both of which Gastrodon can handle.

Anyways, please don't continue this discussion as Arena Trap is already banned and there's no point in continuing something that is no longer here.

 

[blastablasta]

They get crippled on the switch by utility tran, eat huge damage or get toxiced, then they are useless

Gliscor isn't really a reliable switch as it gets wrecked without spedef investment

The point is, there are no switchins for Heatran on defensive teams. All of them get destroyed, it's a broken mon.

 

[Leo]

They get crippled on the switch by utility tran, eat huge damage or get toxiced, then they are useless

Gliscor isn't really a reliable switch as it gets wrecked without spedef investment

The point is, there are no switchins for Heatran on defensive teams. All of them get destroyed, it's a broken mon.

You asked for mons Bloom Doom Heatran doesn’t trap and got a proper response, if you want to make an argument for Heatran being broken I suggest you first get more experience with playing against Heatran and finding counterplay on defensive teams which seem to be what you find most weak to it and second take a hint at your infractions and lurk more before posting again, thanks

 

[lydian]

Just wanted to share an article I've recently done about Mega Latias and Mega Latios. Hope you guys like it ^^

art by LifeisDANK
Soaring in Viability: Mega Latias and Mega Latios in OU​

 

[Millionsunz]

I've just started to get back into USUM OU after a brief stint in UU, and I'm still surprised to see how infrequently I find Mega Mawile on teams considering how powerful it is.

I'm not a fan of SD Mawile, so I prefer the bulkier, more versatile "All-Out-Attacking" Set:

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Fire Fang / Ice Punch

Mawile is able to smash through defensive Pokemon that seem to populate the OU ladder like Toxapex, Celesteela, Ferrothorn, y'all know the type. Despite it's ability as a wall-breaker, it sees relatively low usage.

Yes, Mawile is slow. Yes, Mawile struggles to break through Heatran, one of the most commonly seen Pokemon in the tier. However, this set is extremely slept on imo. Play Rough is a nuclear bomb for most of the tier, Sucker Punch cleans up faster Pokemon, ThunderPunch and Fire Fang obliterate all those that fail to expect these moves. Mawile gets some sick coverage moves like Knock Off and Ice Punch, and can steamroll with Power-Up Punch. Yet, the most slept on fact about this set is its ability to tank hits.

Mega Mawile w/ Intimidate eats up powerful hits like their breakfast. Just check out these calcs.

-1 252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 213-252 (80.6 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 198-234 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 204-241 (77.2 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Kartana Smart Strike vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 183-216 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [Intimdate + SD = +1]
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 222-264 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 228-268 (86.3 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Mawile can OHKO or do significant damage to all of these Pokemon with the correct coverage attack.

Let's just take a look at the Top 10 used Pokemon based on these usage statistics (which I believe are the most recent).

Landorus-T

-1 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 198-234 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 320-380 (83.7 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 217-256 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 157-185 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO


Sure, it's not the best matchup for Mawile, but Mawile can still handle the most common Pokemon in the tier if played correclty.

Tapu Koko

252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega in Electric Terrain: 186-220 (70.4 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega in Electric Terrain: 217-256 (82.1 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [Z Wild Charge]
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega in Electric Terrain: 279-328 (105.6 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Volt Switch vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega in Electric Terrain: 217-256 (82.1 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 318-375 (113.1 - 133.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I won't like, Tapu Koko is another rough Pokemon for Mawile to switch in to, but Koko gets obliterated if you can catch it on a switch or have it Choice-Locked into another move.

Magearna

8 SpA Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 114-136 (43.1 - 51.5%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 138-164 (52.2 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 137-162 (51.8 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 204-241 (77.2 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 204-242 (77.2 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 111-131 (42 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Fire Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 238-282 (79 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [Shift Gear/Double Dance]
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 238-282 (65.5 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [AV]

Magearna is one of the better matchups for Mawile.

Heatran

I won't even bother pasting calcs or anything, if Mawile is facing against Heatran just switch it out.

Zygarde

252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 222-264 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
140+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 204-240 (77.2 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 474-558 (117.3 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 123-145 (30.4 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Zygarde can be harder to handle if it's given the opportunity to set up, but Mawile can still take it down with ease. It can be a nice sack too as Sucker will break all Subs as long as Zygarde doesn't run Max Def in conjunction with Max HP.

Ferrothorn

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 408-484 (115.9 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Om nom nom.

Kartana

252 Atk Kartana All-Out Pummeling (175 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 202-238 (76.5 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Fire Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 428-504 (164.6 - 193.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Om nom nom part 2.

Greninja-Ash

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 115-136 (43.5 - 51.5%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 318-375 (120.4 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash: 764-902 (268 - 316.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash: 426-502 (149.4 - 176.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Hydro Pump will OHKO Mawile, but if it's Choice-Locked into something else Mawile can pretty much take it on.

Tapu Lele

252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 216-255 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 138-164 (52.2 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 204-242 (77.2 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega in Psychic Terrain: 172-203 (65.1 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 352-415 (125.2 - 147.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 196-231 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It may have a hard time switching into Lele, but Mawile acts as a great check to the Psychic fiend.

Zapdos

0 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 172-204 (65.1 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 212-250 (80.3 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 225-265 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 315-372 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Heat Wave hurts like a banshee, but Mawile can still put a huge chunk of damage into Zapdos. Still not one of it's better matchups.

If you go through these, you'll see that Mawile has a favorable matchup against a good amount of the top 10 most common Pokemon found in OU. It has only a terrible matchup against one, but Heatran is easily played around.

I hope this absolute monster will soon get the recognition it deserves.

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Millionsunz

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 588-692 (152.3 - 179.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Imo Mega Mawile has ZERO switchins until you know the set. Even the old Sub-SD sets are probably usable today.

 

[NoahStar]

Continuing the discussion on Mega Mawile, I'm seeing more and more people speed-creep with this mon ever so slightly. With just a little more speed investment, this thing becomes an absolute nightmare for balance teams to face. Bold Unaware Clefable is 2HKO'd by Play Rough so it's super risky to switch into Mawile, and Mawile really threatens a lot of defensive glue staples on balance (sans Heatran). Such a cool mon.

Another note, has anyone else been seeing Z-Dig Greninja rise in popularity? As a lead, this thing is super threatening.

Greninja (M) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Dig
- Spikes
- Gunk Shot

Z-Dig OHKO's Pex, and Gunk Shot obviously nails Clefable, Bulu, and Koko on the switch. I saw this thing drop my Pex the other day and all I could do is applaud my opponent. Much like Charizard last generation, Greninja pressures the opponent into having to think really hard about what its set might be.

 

[robofiend]

Continuing the discussion on Mega Mawile, I'm seeing more and more people speed-creep with this mon ever so slightly. With just a little more speed investment, this thing becomes an absolute nightmare for balance teams to face. Bold Unaware Clefable is 2HKO'd by Play Rough so it's super risky to switch into Mawile, and Mawile really threatens a lot of defensive glue staples on balance (sans Heatran). Such a cool mon.

Another note, has anyone else been seeing Z-Dig Greninja rise in popularity? As a lead, this thing is super threatening.

Greninja (M) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Dig
- Spikes
- Gunk Shot

Z-Dig OHKO's Pex, and Gunk Shot obviously nails Clefable, Bulu, and Koko on the switch. I saw this thing drop my Pex the other day and all I could do is applaud my opponent. Much like Charizard last generation, Greninja pressures the opponent into having to think really hard about what its set might be.

On this note, I've seen Low Kick and Expert belt lately too in response to Heatran (and Ferrothorn and Tyranitar) freely switching in on some Ebelt sets. Because Hidden Power Fire covers Ferrothorn (and M-Scizor too, I guess, who can force Gren out with Bullet Punch after an Ice Beam), Heatran and Tyranitar are tempting options to send in against this set, particularly once you've scouted it and realize it doesn't have Hydro Pump. I've used it too and I find it reasonably useful for baiting them. It should be noted that Groundium-Z also completely demolishes Tyranitar and Heatran too.

252 Atk Expert Belt Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 362-427 (93.7 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Expert Belt Protean Greninja Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 245-288 (69.6 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Expert Belt Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 696-826 (192.7 - 228.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Jordy]

In this post I'd like to talk about a few things I've noticed while playing, building, and watching tour games.

Gastrodon has seen a lot of usage lately, but I don't think it will be holding up till the next tier shift somewhere in October (If I'm right thats the following tier shift after this months). The meta has started adapting to it relatively quickly, with most Tapu Koko opting for U-turn right now, meaning Tapu Koko is actually still capable of gaining momentum against the Gastrodon users' team. I've also seen more Z-Solar Beam Heatran's than before for its ability to beat Gastrodon and other common answers, such as Gliscor for example. I've also seen more Charizard Y being used, which abuses the fact that Gastrodon balance is still pretty popular.

Mega Alakazam has been surging recently as it is really solid in this meta because it is one of the few Pokemon that can switch into Heatran, and Draco Meteor-less Mega Latios. It is generally really hard to prep for, especially when paired with Magnezone because it has a very limited amount of switch ins and most of those who can, can easily get trapped by Magnezone. With the recent "discovery" of Modest Mega Alakazam this Pokemon has only become all the more threatening as it still retains a solid Speed-tier while being insanely strong.

Also, from teambuilding and playing I've noticed the rise of Payapa Berry on Toxapex and it is really good. Payapa Berry allows Toxapex to keep up with this Psychic-type heavy meta that we are in today, as it can prove crucial to get off a Toxic on Psychic-types such as Mega Alakazam, Tapu Lele, and Mega Medicham for a lot of teams.

 

[Leo]

Hi all, this thread is going to be locked for the next 24 hours to give people some time to play with zeraora and experiment with it in the tier before posting, keep in mind that any uninformed posts will still be deleted once it re-opens so make sure youhave some experience with using/play against it if you wanna post about it, thanks

 

[GMars]

It's been about 24 hours, so we're unlocking this thread. This thread will be heavily moderated, so please read the rules carefully before posting. Thanks!

 

[Vengeance417]

Zeraora is ok. Nothing spectacular, but not as terrible as I thought it'd be.

So a few sets that I've been toying with:

Zeraora @ Focus Sash
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Endeavor
- Quick Attack
- Taunt

This has been doing pretty well at stopping sweeps, removing Scarf Lando, or simply whittling fat mons down for another teammate. Taunt stops recovery, Endeavor brings said mon to 1 HP, then it gets taken out by Quick Attack. I like to pair this with a Pursuit-trapper so that if Zeraora goes down, the whittled mon can't escape.

Here's an example of what this set can do: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-770449778

Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Work Up

Mixed Work Up. +1 HP Ice has the strength to OHKO offensive Zygarde from full and most HP invested sets after a small amount of chip. +1 Close Combat also OHKOes Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Heatran. Speed is to outpace Mega Lop and Modest Alakazam, and the rest goes to Attack and Special Attack.

This replay isn't particularly great, but it demonstrates how strong this can be at +1: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-770460698

This mon has serious issues, though. It's very weak without setup, Chose Band, or Z moves. A Life Orb unboosted Close Combat can't OHKO Kyurem-Black without rocks, and unboosted Plasma Fists fails to 2HKO Clef:

252 Atk Life Orb Zeraora Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 307-361 (78.5 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's also practically hard checked by Mega Alakazam, a mon rising in usage as of late, thanks to it Tracing Volt Absorb. Zeraora also doesn't like the usage of Scarf Lando-T being so high now that other mons are setting up rocks like Clef and Heatran. Not having access to U-turn is also a serious bummer, whereas Tapu Koko, the superior Electric-type, has it. Choice Band would have loved U-turn, but alas. It checks most Koko sets that don't opt for Dazzling Gleam, but U-turn chip is annoying to deal with.

If there are a few benefits to running Zeraora compared to Tapu Koko, it's that it outpaces Ash-Greninja and Mega Lopunny, has Close Combat and Fire Punch to deal with Ferrothorn, has access to Knock Off, and has a slightly stronger Hidden Power Ice. Otherwise, just use Tapu Koko.

Edit: Here's what I've been using for Choice Band:

Zeraora @ Choice Band
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch
- Knock Off / Hidden Power Ice

Fire Punch OHKOes Kartana (Close Combat does also), OHKOs Ferrothorn after rocks, 2HKOes Mega Scizor, Amoonguss, and Tapu Bulu, and 2HKOes AV Tangrowth after rocks. Close Combat is for Tyranitar, Heatran, Excadrill, and Chansey while being your best neutral attack for Grounds like Hippowdon and Zygarde. Knock Off is able to 2HKO the Mega Latis and defensive Mew. Knock Off is also nice for removing the Leftovers from various Pokemon to wear them down for Zeraora later, such as Clefable and bulkier Zygarde sets. HP Ice, meanwhile, 2HKOes any form of Landorus-T even with a Jolly nature, and does slightly more damage to Zygarde than CC.

From my experience, Toxic Spikes support works very well with this set. Pokemon like Zygarde, Tapu Bulu, Tangrowth don't appreciate the constant residual damage from Poison as they come in on Banded attacks.

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-770597340 Toxic Spikes put pressure on Tangrowth later on in the match while Zeraora's Banded Plasma Fists puts Clefable in range of Mega Latios's Psychic.

 

[Discharged Xurkitree]

Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch
- Hidden Power Ice

I've been playing around with multiple Zeraora sets, and this one so far has worked for me the best. It's a wallbreaker set that makes switching into Zeraora hard for a large plurality of the mons in OU. Plasma Fists 2HKO's a sizable portion of the tier, notably including AV Magearna, Celesteela, Toxapex, and the Rotom-W (After SR for Rotom). It also achieves OHKO's against several offensive mons such as Greninja, Tornados-T, and Hoopa-U (75% chance to OHKO, after SR guaranteed OHKO). Close Combat hits Heatran for a 2HKO, and a possibility of an OHKO after SR, while also destroying Tyranitar in one go. Fire Punch hits Scizor and Ferrothorn for 2HKOS, as well as Tapu Bulu. HP Ice 2HKO's Lando-T and Zygarde.

Running a nature that does not affect the Special Attack is not needed, even with Jolly HP Ice will 2HKO Zygarde and Land-T, and running a Naive nature and adding 4 Special Attack will not change the matchups Zeraora has. I'd also like to mention a good teammate for this set is Flyinium Z Lando, who lures in Mega Venusaur and Tangrowth and gets the OHKO on both.

Along with some good team support (Such as VoltTurn, Hazard Setters, and mons who cover his defensive and offensive weaknesses), I really believe Zeraora has potential to be a great mon in the meta. He is certainly held back by his average attack stat and lack of a physical Ice Type move, as well as other inconveniences, but at least with my team he has been crucial in several games, and can prove to be a real threat to many Pokemon in OU.