I’ll start off by saying thank god for this update! I was getting tired of seeing the same arguments brought up over and over again as we meaninglessly threw recycled ideas out there with no end in sight. That being said I’m happy with the new blood as well, especially my boy
Eternam who has been a very influential builder the past few months, especially when it comes to fat balance. He’s earned this, and I’m happy to see him being rewarded. Pleasantries aside the new discussion slate is calling my name, and I just have to put my opinions out there.
Soo…this mon is in a really odd spot. I get the feeling it’s on its way out of the meta, as far as being a blanket check thrown on an insane number of teams. Grass types are on the rise, and Gastro, Clef, Torn teams have become so standard that most competent teams are well equipped to take it on. That being said Gastro can still be very effective, this WCOP replay is a great example of that:
Empo uses the presence of Gastrodon on his team masterfully. Using it to check Tapu Koko, while also using it to deter water type moves from his opponent using Rain. I would say from a Gastrodon perspective the replay is good through turn 56 where a Curse Scizor was begins. That said not all games play out like this one where a player is almost afraid of losing momentum vs Gastrodon. This replay of FV vs FLCL shows a common trend of things Gastrodon is supposed to check fighting back:
Be it a Bloom Doom Tran like this replay or be it something like Magearna or Reuniclus carrying Energy Ball to try and catch it by surprise. Moving forward Gastrodon is on thin ice. Helping check threats like Koko, Ash Greninja, and M-Latios keep it B+ for the time being in my eyes. However, the way things are going I could see this topic being reconsidered in a few months as things change. Honestly as long as Clef + Torn teams still manage to fit Gastro on a consistent basis, and Clef + Torn + Tang + different Ground doesn’t push it out I would have a hard time dropping it. A few weeks ago I said this thing has peaked as people tried to nom it for A-. Still think I was right, and I guess dropping Gastrodon comes down to how progressive you want to be. Either drop it now, or wait 2 months for when I feel it will have fallen out of the meta.
I believe M-Latios is currently the best mega in this balance infested metagame we find ourselves in. Solid bulk, Mamoswine coverage possibilities, the ability to run HP Fire if its team needs it, a strong Psychic, the less common nuke in Draco Meteor, solid recovery, and a good speed tier sets this thing up for success. It really has all the tools to be great, the only things that can potentially get in this things way is the growing use of Pursuit users and its sister fighting it for a slot by providing more bulk to a team. I would think this decision comes down to whether or not the council is confident in M-Latios standing alone as the quote un quote best mega as it sits in A+ while mons like M-Medi, M-Scizor, and potentially M-Zam sit in A. I personally believe it’s ready to ascend the group due to its versatility. When fat balance loses its vice grip on the meta we can talk, but for now I’m confident in this nomination.
Uggh I hated talking about this things potential rise enough when S- existed, but now a hard discussion where the only options are A+ and S ensues. Just a recap of the things it does; best rocker, best Wish passer, solid CM user, extremely hard to kill once it gets going – way too many teams just lose to this blob. I was all aboard the S- train for this mon, but I’m not entirely convinced it belongs in S. It does so much so well, but I still find myself unconvinced. With mons like Hetran, Gliscor, and Iron Tail Zygarde being so prevalent I have troubles with this mon rising. I know 3 checks shouldn’t be enough to keep a mon from jumping to S. It’s the fact I feel most teams are naturally fitting a couple checks that either deny it rocks, or pressure it enough that it can’t properly CM up/heal others. That being said teams only carry that many checks since Clefairy is glue for so many balance builds. I feel this boils down to how meta defining is Clef balance? If you feel it's overwhelming then raise it, but if you feel it hasn't hit that super elite level where balance without Clef is just crippling yourself I wouldn't give it the prestigious S nom. This is the nomination I probably have the least conviction on, but I would keep it A+.
I love this Pokemon, and I’m all for it rising up to A. Recover Zam on balance has opened up a new door for this thing. For a bulk of the generation people kept it tied to Lele thinking it would help, but we’ve started to see it can do fine on its own. Has been used a lot in WCOP, and continues to excel even as it becomes a common choice. Honestly the ability to serve as a switch in vs kings like Heatran and M-Lati while providing an amazing speed tier for a balance team is really hard to overlook. Also if you’re playing on the ladder, and even tours to a certain degree Rain is still fairly common, so tracing Swift Swim to help check mons like Pert and Kingdra is a huge boon. Overall I feel M-Zam up to A is an easy call, and honestly can’t think of any reason for it to not rise besides Pursuit users potentially, who still need to dodge a Focus Blast or in Weavile’s case get the 50/50 right on whether to Shard or Suit (Unless you’re running something like Muk, then just remove Zam and go on with your life running Muk). I could honestly talk about this mon all day, but I’ll draw this to a close to keep it from dragging.
Glad to see some progress in this thread, and look forward to seeing the 2 new people hopefully interact with the thread moving forward. As always I’ll say thanks for reading, and apologize if it got boring.
