OU Is Jirachi to Ubers an extreme opinion?

[Seven Thunders]

I voted against the return of Latias to OU, not because I truly believed Latias was broken, but because I was against the entire idea of the suspect test. I believe Jirachi is the much more clearly unhealthy Pokemon, and should have been addressed first (The results of the recent suspect test don't really tell us if Latias would be OP without Jirachi as one of its main checks around).

I believe that Jirachi is an incredibly unhealthy Pokemon due to both its incredible versatility aided by its great typing, its overall effectiveness, its lack of counters, and the luck it introduces into games.

First, it's versatility. Jirachi has one of the most diverse movepools in the game, and the impressive stats to utilize them effectively. Nothing can run a wider variety of sets than Jirachi can. It can function as team support with Stealth Rock and Wish, a utility check, a revenge killer, a physical sweeper, a physical sponge, a special sweeper, a special sponge, a mixed attacker/stallbreaker, and a crippler. It stats are good enough that it can often perform several of roles simultaneously. It can easily fit into every single team archetype with its versatility. Its physical movepool including Iron Head, Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch and Body Slam harms almost everything. It's special movepool including Psychic, Thunderbolt, and Grass Knot can hurt many mons that check its Physical stab.

When you first see a Jirachi, the only real tell you have as to what set its running is the presence/abscence of Leftovers, and that still leaves many options either way. Nothing switches into a Jirachi completely safely, because many of its presume counters can still at least be Statused/Tricked.

What consistently counters a mixed Jirachi? As a first requirement, high physical bulk or steel resist are necessary, otherwise Iron Head flinches are too big of a risk. I would argue that only pokemon with Rest can truly be considered counters, with Natural Cure users (Starmie and Celebi) coming in a distant second. Heatran and bulky Rotom (sans rest) nearly counter mixed Jirachi, but can still be crippled by status. Bulky waters are still threatened by Thunderbolt/Grass knot + Paralysis. Bulky grounds are threatened by Grass Knot + Paralysis, bulky steels (sans Heatran) are threatened by Fire Punch or Thunderbolt (Empoleon/Skarmory)+ Paralysis. Also, every Jirachi switch in besides Fire types are risking a burn when coming in on Fire Punch.

Steel typing + Serene Grace is what makes this Pokemon truly evil. The steel typing is essential for giving it STAB on its 60% flinch rate Iron Head, as well as allowing it immunity to sandstorm (i.e healing with Leftovers). The constant healing allows Jirachi to survive for so long, combined with the 20% odds of many good checks being severely compromised by Fire Punch burns can make it feel like over time odds always favor Jirachi. Leftovers healing over all the turns spent being flinched by Jirachi, along with very good (100/100/100) defenses make this Pokemon extremely durable, which is problematic because over time it will muscle through everything except for Heatran and Bulky Rotom.

Closing statement, every DPP veteran has seen and experienced games where Jirachi users get obscenely lucky and win in situations where they should have no business winning. Can it really be argued that the hax it introduces into games is healthy or competitive? I will sift through my replays for evidence if people think its necessary or desired.

 

[Christos]

That's an interesting topic for discussion. Considering that Latias just got unbanned, even if somebody feels a pokemon is suspect-worthy, I'm not sure if the timing for an official suspect is appropriate. That aside, I'd personally be willing to try "Jirachi-less" DPP OU. Jirachi is arguably the best stand-alone pokemon of the tier and certainly the most annoying pokemon to face. I think you are spot on about the impact of Serene Grace + Steel typing on its effectiveness. To me, Jirachi without Serene Grace or without Iron Head would be a perfectly fine staple of the tier. However, the combination of Serene Grace + STAB Iron Head + Paralysis is extremely annoying to face and I feel it's also a somewhat uncompetitive strategy. I'd say it's something similar to Sand Veil + Sandstorm in a sense : you have to take maths into account while making your moves and you can play around it to a degree, but is this enough to consider the strategy acceptable ? Where do we draw the line on the impact we allow luck to have in the game ?

 

[Seven Thunders]

Well, Jirachi without Serene Grace doesn't exist, so the point is moot. I also agree that I don't think Jirachi would be broken without Iron Head.

I didn't address it in my post, but yes, I also don't understand the thinking behind Sand Veil being banned in DPP while Serene Grace is not. The amount of luck it introduces into battles is ridiculous.

And yes, I'm sure that no one really wants to address this now since we just went through the suspect test with Latias, I just believe that Jirachi is a unhealthy enough that the discussion is warranted.

 

[Zokuru]

A Jirachi ban would have been something to considere before the Latias unban. In the current metagame I think it would be weird to ban it, Rachi is one of the reason why Tias got unbanned after all.

 

[Finchinator]

I’m not huge on that type of “broken checks broken” logic described in the post above, but for other reasons I do not believe Jirachi is broken.

While it is perhaps the poster-child for DPP versatility, with a wider range of options than things like Dragonite and even Tyranitar arguably, I feel like the immediate set-back from most turns spent feeling back can be minimized due to the lack of outright offensive presence Jirachi has outside of its coverage (meaning it’s on the weaker side of the spectrum).

Of course, I recognize that it also has a ridiculously respectable defensive presence that it boasts on various sets, ranging from Calm Mind to SDef Wish to a number of other options, but I feel like there are a number of exploits to this that are encountered fairly often in the current metagame. Quite frankly, this facet of Jirachi just leaves me with the impression that it is a “very good” Pokemon in the tier, but not near the discussion of potential suspects/things that are banworthy.

The versatility is the only argument you could maybe sell to me individually and I feel like that just isn’t a strong enough argument. There are times when it is awkward to pivot in to or it opens up unexpected advantages due to smart and perhaps surprising set choices from a Jirachi, but I do not think this in itself is cause for action and I find there to be lots of counterplay to every individual set. On a universal level, there are few actual Pokémon that can always come in and 100% kill or force out Jirachi, but more experienced players and better structures have enough to be safe against it from the beginning of games. Given that exploits like Dugtrio to remove it exist, almost-hard counters such as Heatran are often encountered, and a plethora of softer checks can be used often enough, I just think that while Jirachi is undoubtedly a top 5 pokemon in DPP OU, it is by no means banworthy.