Resource USUM OU ULTRA Viability Ranking Thread

[Finchinator]

Kartana to a+
it has good physical defense, good speed and an INSANE 181 base attack and beast boost to INCREASE its insane attack. All of it's three viable sets (sd scarf and band) are all sweepers that every team has to fear for a different part of the game so it deserves to go to a+

Mamoswine to b+
good bulk, decent speed, huge attack and having the 2 best attacking types in the game (fight me!) this thing is quite literally a mammoth it destroys lando t, garchomp, heatran, m diancie and all of the good steel types

say more later (about drops) but for now gtg

I reckon that you need more than raw base stat and characteristics being dropped than to justify these things. I think you need to dissect the place these Pokemon have in the current metagame and why they are better than those in the current rank or why they are on par with those in the higher, proposed rank. Try to focus more on these practical matters instead of the less directly impactful and more common knowledge oriented ones you integrated into your post.

 

[Taptricity]

down to B-
Psychic-types seem to be getting stronger with the rises of Mega Alakazam and Mega Latias, which makes one reason why Mega Venusaur is losing relevance. It faces heavy competition with Toxapex, which has better utility and durability with more PP in Recover than Synthesis and Regenerator with the added addition of not taking up a Mega slot.

Awkward meet up on Discord but I’m going to have to disagree with this nom specifically. Mega Venusaur has gotten a bit of boost for being in a meta where it isn’t damning to be a Grass-type that takes neutral damage from Ground-type moves. Amoonguss is a better comparison to Toxapex as well due to them sharing the role of Regenerator pivot. The issues you say about Mega Alakazam and Mega Latias’s rise can be plugged into Toxapex as well since these aren’t the mons that it’s supposed to check anyway. I definitely don’t think Mega Venusaur has gotten good enough to rise, but no way in hell it should drop.

I do have my own nom though.

Celesteela to A+
CelePex is back in business! Not being able to deal with Heatran too well sucks but Celesteela deals with the newfound rise of Psychic-types pretty nicely. Celesteela’s blanket checking prowess is so much more appreciated with Toxapex now with Thousand Arrows being out of the picture and sees itself as a Balance staple atm.

Also I hard agree with raising Crawdaunt. I could even see it higher than C+ just because it fucks over so many Balances right now if given a free switch it’s crazy.

 

[shieldpoke]

Alright post-zygarde meta here we go.

down to C-:
Ever since the removal of Zygarde, cores like CelePex have been on the rise and I see very little reason to ever use Avalugg. It is weak to rocks and can't compensate with regenerator like Tornadus nor can it threaten burns and paras like Zapdos. Zygarde itself was also one of the main reasons to run Avalugg, and not only has its removal lessened the presence of grass types, it also allowed steel types more into the meta. Ice type is an extremely poor defensive typing currently and is useless and the majority of matchups.

up to B-:
In my opinion, it is an actual travesty that Skarmory is below mons such as Mimikyu and Terrakion. Skarm now functions much better as a wall since Zygarde was removed since flying type now means you have an actual ground immunity. Magnezone being possibly more present doesn't matter as much since it mainly runs shed shell, along with the fact that it often runs defog and a hazard at the same time, it distinguishes itself from Celesteela sufficiently. It does suffer from more Heatran, but it doesn't deter it from rising a couple of ranks.

up to B:
Now that Amoonguss no longer has to run HP Ice to not get set up on by Zygarde, it has an open moveslot that it can use to counter threats such as Mega-Mawile with HP fire. Fire types like Charizard X and Heatran cannot switchin directly due to the fear of being put to sleep and even when Sleep Clause is activated, it can run stun spore to further put potential setup sweepers and threats under pressure. It doesn't appreciate the rise of Alakazam-Mega and Latias-Mega, but the moveslot opening up should bolster it up one rank.

up to A+:

The CelePex core is pulls up back into the tier as it is no longer solod by zygarde. It now has an actual ground immunity! Psychic types on the rise means the defensive synergy between the two mons is incredible. Not much else to say as it can get up leech seed on heatran if it switchins in and get some free chip as well.

down to B:
I honestly believe it should be lower than B, but I'll hold off on that thought until the meta settles more. Simply put, Hawlucha is walled by Toxapex. Yes, Koko could be seen more, but this core is a burden on anything that isn't Hyper Offense and ever since Zygarde's removal, HO is just not the same. Not to mention FerroChomp cores with the Impish Nature Chomp set, Medicham-Mega Fake Out spam, Water Shuriken, and other counterplay just shuts down Hawlucha. This mon has been bad for a while, and it has only gotten worse as the meta naturally counters it.

up to S:
It's been a long time coming but now more than ever does Magearna just rip through teams. It has a similar issue to Zygarde as it has way too many sets and SG fairum is an abomination. It can run Tbolt to put dents into CelePex, ice beam to beat Lando-T and Gliscor, and of course its standard double dance set to late game sweep any team. Stall gets beaten by its CM/Pain Split set and its Steel typing means it cant even get poisoned. It's AV set isn't great, but it functions decently against the ever more popular Alakazam-Mega and Mega-Latias.

 

[Astra]

to C-: Agree
Great minds think alike. To add on to you and my own post, the fact that so many Pokemon that is used in stall got better makes Avalugg really bad considering it's like the only stall Pokemon to be hurt by Zygarde department lol.

to B- and

to B: Agree
Like I just mentioned, a lot of niche Pokemon ran on stall got a lot better. Skarmory can work on stall as a Defogger and doesn't have to worry about the big damage from Zygarde, while Amoonguss is overall a really bulky Pokemon that can spread status or become even bulkier with Assault Vest. I'll expect them to be used as alternatives on stall, and on other archetypes like balance as well.

to A+: Agree
Celepex is a really good core, and Celesteela in general is just better overall. However, I was on the fence a bit due to the fact that Electric-types have been growing in popularity, but I suppose it could be circumvented with another Pokemon like Garchomp or Landorus-T.

to B: Agree
The meta keeps getting bulkier, making Hawlucha losing relevance. If it really wants to hit other things harder, it has Stone Edge, but that'll most likely cause it to lose Roost. I could argue for it to be B- as well, but as Jordy said on Discord, it'll most likely end up shooting up the ranks if it ends up being that low.

to S: Uncertain but leaning towards Agree
Magearna does have the potential to be S rank, I'll say that. However, looking at the Pokemon already in S rank, Magearna differs in that it's reliant on set up, barring some Landorus-T sets. That being said, once the meta is clear and shows that it allows for a lot more setup opportunities, Magearna would, in my opinion, very worthy of S rank.

Here's some more of my nominations:

from C to C-
This is more about the Aurora Veil team archetype, but Alolan Ninetales is required for it. While it is required, Zygarde was arguably a necessity due to its bulk being bolstered by Aurora Veil. With it gone though, Alolan Ninetales struggles to find another solid setup Pokemon to take full advantage of Aurora Veil. I will give that fact that it still has Mega Mawile, but both it and Zygarde were practically the best when working together on Aurora Veil teams.

from B to B+
I find it weird that Mega Gyarados is ranked lower than its regular forme. Regardless, its Mega forme certainly will get better with the ability to stallbreak via Mold Breaker and Taunt if it has it over Substitute. Mold Breaker also helps against Pokemon like Rotom-W, where then Mega Gyarados can hit it with Earthquake ignoring Levitate. The same thing can be argued for Excadrill and Kyurem-B, but I think they're already perfect where they are.

 

[Scuba Diver]

I’d like to echo Magearna to S. Zygarde leaving the tier is obviously a net gain for Magearna. The sheer variety of sets it can run and archetypes it can be used on viably really set it apart from the rest of the tier IMO. While it may not be as consistent game to game as something like Ash-Gren, there’s nothing in the tier that elicits an “oh shit what set is it” reaction like a late game unknown Mag. It picks what checks it, and can be hyper tailored to compliment its teammates. I beleive this unique combination of traits merit its elevation compared to the rest of A+.

 

[Jordy]

→A+
Protean Greninja is a terrifying balance breaker as of right now that has found its way onto a good amount of teams lately. With the recent rise in Mega Latias/Gliscor/Toxapex type of balances, Protean Greninja gets a lot of opportunities to switch into play and wreak havoc. Furthermore, I believe that it's better than everything else in A. I don't really have anything else to say because Protean Greninja is a very explored Pokemon already, but it profits a lot from current metagame trends and should rise because of that.

→Lower Disagree
While I used to hate Alomomola and think it should have dropped in the past, I disagree with the notion that Alomomola should drop now. Recently, it has found its way onto quite a few stall teams with good success. It's one of the better Pokemon that stall has access to to scout Mega Charizard X without getting punished much, and it also checks some other pretty threatening Pokemon like Protean Greninja. Furthermore, with the rise of Mega Aggron (Alomomola fits really well on these teams), I think Alomomola will continue to stay relevant enough to stay in B.

→UR Agree

Of course, this requires setup and a good matchup for Trick Room and maybe some predictions, so it think it should remain in C- along with Trick Room setters Uxie and Cresselia.

I'd much rather unrank Alolan Marowak, Uxie, and Cresselia than keep Alolan Marowak ranked because of Uxie and Cresselia. Alolan Marowak, Uxie, and Cresselia have not seen relevant usage in a long while, because Trick Room teams are the embodiment of inconsistent. They should be unranked because of this.

→UR YES
Kill it with fire.

I don't have a lot to say on these noms, but I agree with them

→B

→B-

→B-

→C+

→C+

→C+

→UR

→UR

 

[lydian]

to UR:

to UR:
Yeah I forgot about the other Trick Room goons the other day, Trick Room is pretty bad, that’s all I have to say really. Been a while since we last saw it in an official tournament.

to B-:

to B:
Yeah I could see these two swapping places, thanks to Regenerator and Black Sludge Amoonguss has that much extra longevity letting it act as a much better check to the likes of Ash-Greninja and Scarf Kartana. Amoonguss has been popping up a lot lately in structures alongside Heatran.

to B:
Unexplored Pokémon, that’s for sure, but B+ is way too high. Hoopa-U has very small usage, especially in official tournaments, and low speed and physical defense make it very easy for a team with any glimpse of offense to not have too hard of a time against it. Just overall I think B+ is definitely overselling Hoopa-U.

That’s all for this post!

 

[shieldpoke]

Just a quick post to add onto the Shuckle derank to unranked nomination. Please kill this mon already, its role compression webs lead niche isn’t even a viable niche, anyone would much rather run excadrill + ribombee because now you get a spinner and they could even threaten damage on would be counter leads. Shuckle just doesn’t do anything. It should’ve been put down ages ago but apparently its ungodly defense extend into the metagame and is impervious to derank attempts

 

[Blumenwitz]

Simply put, Hawlucha is walled by Toxapex.

Not necessarily. Physically defensive variants, sure, but specially defensive ones can't switch in as reliably. In some cases all Hawlucha needs is one turn of setup to plow through. Case in point:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-851623397

Now, I'm not saying that Toxapex never walls Hawlucha, or that Hawlucha can just freely switch in on Pex and set up, but I wouldn't call Pex a hard counter - at least not in the same vein as, say, Zapdos or Unaware Clefable.

 

[The Hallows]

toxapex a+ > s

toxapex has been dominant for a long time, ftr i think it was s worthy even before zyg was banned & now we lost 1 more way to pressure toxapex its self & the cores it usually fits in so its case has been boosted even more.

obviously its stupidly fat & outlasts pretty much everything in the tier over the long game between regen, recover, haze & status spread. on top of this it sets its self apart from other mons that usually fit this bill, by being stupidly hard to switch in to for something so fat, its threatening p much anything in the game that u can switch in w the threat of burn, toxic or letting a tspike go up, on top of the rare but usable knock off. its not like other fat bulky mons that are usually do nothing & drain momentum when they come in. toxapex has all the perks of a conventional bulky wall yet is super proactive & is always making progress when u get it in, as well as being an effective pivot just cus its not reliant on wasting turns to heal thanks to broken regen.

when toxapex is at full it forces anything bar tapu lele to think twice about staying in. even strong attackers that can hit it for 2x like lando, chomp & zam can catch a scald, toxic or tspike going up, then toxapex is coming back in at half in a few turns & its ready to go again.

it offers a huge amount to a team, its super interchangeable depending on what u need it to do w options i mentioned earlier like scald,haze,toxic,tspikes,knock & it checks a huge amount of the tier by it self, & is the only real consistent toxic spiker in the tier (which are ridiculously good btw)

what really makes it s worthy for me is the fact that it fits on basically any time of team structure bar balls on table ho & will always put a shift in. idt ive ever loaded up a game & thought toxapex was useless, there's worth to get out of it in any game ever


rotom's washed a > a+

nothing benefited from zygs ban more than rotom, actually being able to throw it on a team & call it a ground immunity is amazing

rotoms one of the best mons in the tier now, hence why its on every team. its extremely easy to fit as it fills alot of roles in 1 slot & is very effective at what it does. its 1 of the 3 best pivots in the tier alongside lando & tornadus, its a good defogger (tho its also good w/o) for offense being able to fog on heatran, lando, gren, toxapex, garchomp to name a few. its a decent water resist, a ground immunity & a flying resist. even the grass types who resist its stabs are all forced to take a burn, which basically cuts the legs off of the 2 best grass types in the tier ferro & bulu.

it definitely doesn't outlast a lot of the mons it checks forever, but on teams that are designed to win quickly there arent many better picks than rotom, its easy to switch in & hard to switch in to, and is 1 of the best mons in the tier for enabling the big breakers by getting them in for free via volt switch.

 

[Ruft]

I agree with Magearna and Toxapex rising for the reasons mentioned as I think they got considerably better than the rest of A+. However, I don't believe they're at the same level as the Pokémon that are currently in S which form more of a direct threat. For this reason, I propose a return of S- to better reflect Magearna and Toxapex's viability.

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

to UR:

to UR:
Yeah I forgot about the other Trick Room goons the other day, Trick Room is pretty bad, that’s all I have to say really. Been a while since we last saw it in an official tournament.

to B-:

to B:
Yeah I could see these two swapping places, thanks to Regenerator and Black Sludge Amoonguss has that much extra longevity letting it act as a much better check to the likes of Ash-Greninja and Scarf Kartana. Amoonguss has been popping up a lot lately in structures alongside Heatran.

to B:
Unexplored Pokémon, that’s for sure, but B+ is way too high. Hoopa-U has very small usage, especially in official tournaments, and low speed and physical defense make it very easy for a team with any glimpse of offense to not have too hard of a time against it. Just overall I think B+ is definitely overselling Hoopa-U.

That’s all for this post!

You said a lot of things but really had no backing. it's really important to note your fallacies, just because something is doesn't mean it is correct. Which in your case, just because the goons in the smogon tour server dont use it doesnt mean that it's not good, especially since many of their teams are almost identical (yall hoes basic af but you're good). Secondly I disagree, TR isnt bad. and hoopa u is really good just uncommon right now for some reason. B+ is honestly too low imo

 

[Guilhew]

I agree with Magearna and Toxapex rising for the reasons mentioned as I think they got considerably better than the rest of A+. However, I don't believe they're at the same level as the Pokémon that are currently in S which form more of a direct threat. For this reason, I propose a return of S- to better reflect Magearna and Toxapex's viability.

Im agree with the Toxapex nomination to S or S-, but I think magearna is ok in A+, like, an av magearna is a nice pokemon , It can check a good number of pokemon, it have volt switch and nice atacks to be a defensive pokemon, but rlly usually is easy to get it low and 2HKO it with Greninja hydro pump or Tapu lele Psyshock
With offensive magearna, it depends a lot of the Mu, fleur cannon+Focus blast + well, pray for a not Toxapex mu
Cm+pain split ? Well, is so good vs stall, but is difficult to do it shine against offensive Mu
Shift gear+3 atacks ? Well, rlly lot of special walls can check easily magearna, like gastrodon, chansey, heatran can check a non-Focus blast magearna, and a opposing av magearna

 

[Adapt or Die]

Im agree with the Toxapex nomination to S or S-, but I think magearna is ok in A+, like, an av magearna is a nice pokemon , It can check a good number of pokemon, it have volt switch and nice atacks to be a defensive pokemon, but rlly usually is easy to get it low and 2HKO it with Greninja hydro pump or Tapu lele Psyshock
With offensive magearna, it depends a lot of the Mu, fleur cannon+Focus blast + well, pray for a not Toxapex mu
Cm+pain split ? Well, is so good vs stall, but is difficult to do it shine against offensive Mu
Shift gear+3 atacks ? Well, rlly lot of special walls can check easily magearna, like gastrodon, chansey, heatran can check a non-Focus blast magearna, and a opposing av magearna

Every Mage set is manageable on its own. Combined they're a nightmare to face. Toxapex comfortably counters mage until it gets hit by a +1 gigavolt havoc. You were careful to keep your heatran alive until it got all out pummeled. Well at least I got chansey. Chansey keeps me safe from every Mage sweeper set, but wait I can't switch anything else into it and that av mage just volt switched into mega-medicham.

Mage should definitely rise.

 

[Sickist]

I agree with Magearna and Toxapex rising for the reasons mentioned as I think they got considerably better than the rest of A+. However, I don't believe they're at the same level as the Pokémon that are currently in S which form more of a direct threat. For this reason, I propose a return of S- to better reflect Magearna and Toxapex's viability.

Magearna I feel is actually worthy of S rank.

As far as I am concerned, S rank requirements are that (feel free to dismantle my post cool dude and moderator Finchinator if I'm wrong) it provides sheer utility, defensive utility and maintain an offensive prowess (or at least 2 of these in Ash-Greninja's case).

Sheer Utility: Magearna can act like glue on a plethora of teams, variating from Hyper Offense to even some Stall builds (see teams below). It can provide volt switch support, scare things out, abuse heal bell, and sometimes even the rare heart swap.

Defensive Utility: Magearna's typing is excellent, letting it deal with top metagame threats such as Ash Greninja (when packing assault vest or boosted with CM), Tapu Lele, Mega Diancie, and even itself sometimes.

Offensive Utility: This thing has so many sets, it's almost giving me Zygarde flashbacks. CM, Shift Gear, Pain Split, OTR, Assault Vest (defensive set but still a set so :P), CM Pain Split, Electrium, Fightium, the list goes on and on. This thing has ways around many of it's checks, and will, no matter what, require an answer on the team, as this mon is one that you should not fail to prepare for. It's always guaranteed at least 1 kill a game, just because it's so offensively versatile.

Every Mage set is manageable on its own. Combined they're a nightmare to face. Toxapex comfortably counters mage until it gets hit by a +1 gigavolt havoc. You were careful to keep your heatran alive until it got all out pummeled. Well at least I got chansey. Chansey keeps me safe from every Mage sweeper set, but wait I can't switch anything else into it and that av mage just volt switched into mega-medicham.

Mage should definitely rise.

Also Chansey gets shafted by CM+Pain Split.

Teams (none by me)

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/magearnas-kingdomhearts-stall-swap-peaked-top-10.3631262/ stall build
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/♤-absolute-desolation-♤-1860-peak.3645877/ AV mag (but its kinda of a shitshow)
I'll add more as I find them.

Overall, as others have stated, Magearna needs to rise to S rank.

edit: i forgot the links to the teams

 

[temp]

up to A-

Zapdos is in a really nice spot as an actual Ground-immunity (similarly to Rotom-W and Celesteela). Zapdos has a slow Defog set, a Roost 3 Atks set, and even some niche Electrium Z variants at its disposal. Zap does what it normally does (checking Torn, Kart, SS Landorus, Bulu) but appreciates Zygarde being gone just like Washtom. I think A- is a better representation of Zapdos' viability atm than B+.

up to C- (AGREE)

I'm glad someone else acknowledges that Ninetales is a better sun setter than Torkoal and/or Mega Zard Y (for designated sun teams). This is because Ninetales has a greater offensive presence and higher speed in comparison to Torkoal. To people unfamiliar with Sun, Torkoal may seem better Sun due to access to Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. But name a stealth rock setter that doesn't just beat Torkoal. All you get is like Ferrothorn, which just sucks vs. Sun as a whole. Charizard Y benefits from its own Sun more than its teammates and cannot opt for Heat Rock. Sun is not the greatest archetype, but I feel it definitely has a place in the metagame due to its hard hitters—namely Venusaur. This is the set that I usually run:

Ninetales @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 116 SpD / 144 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Sunny Day
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hidden Power [Ground]

There is room for optimization in the EV spread, but it allows Ninetales to survive a Choice Specs Psychic from Tapu Lele (no sr), with the rest in speed. You could probably opt for another option over Will-O-Wisp, but it's cool for luring in Garchomp. Solar Beam, for example, is a good move in this place that offers more offensive utility.

up to C- (AGREE)

Venusaur is the best Pokemon on Sun undoubtedly. With Chlorophyll, Venusaur outpaces a vast majority of the metagame. Thanks to its Grass-typing, Venu can challenge Pokemon on Rain teams to a decent extent by threatening them with a Giga Drain. Venusaur, with Growth and Giga Drain, actually should beat Chansey. A +2 Hidden Power Fire does around 58-68% to Assault Vest Magearna in Sun. AV Magearna's best option is Ice Beam, but that's rarely run in comparison to Focus Blast or Hidden Power Fire. Venusaur's average natural bulk offers it set-up opportunities.

For some replays on both Ninetales and Venusaur gameplay, visit here. It's an RMT I made from late 2017 (during Zyg meta ofc), but it should still show off what these two are capable of.

up to S (AGREE)

Magearna has a plethora of sets and is simply scary to fight. Some sets are designed for certain Pokemon, like Gigavolt Havoc for bulky waters, namely Toxapex. AV is a great pivot thanks to Mag's excellent defensive typing. This type also helps set up either Trick Room, Shift Gear, or Calm Minds. Z-moves in general are a huge plus to Magearna's viability, since All-out Pummeling, Gigavolt Havoc, and Twinkle Tackle become huge nukes. Soul Heart can lead to cleans in the late game, too. This mon is borderline broken with how easily it can win games sometimes. It's a solid glue on a lot of teams and has the offensive presence to easily keep up w/ the meta.

 

[5FingerMachPunch]

C- to C

Still a niche mon, but in the absence of Zygarde, which was pretty much a HO staple, most HO teams are picking up Kommo-o as a replacement to fill the void left by Zygarde's ban and it has been ticking up in usage on those types of teams since, and Kommo-o as a bonus brings some defensive utility, mostly being an Ash Gren check but it can also act as a Heatran switch-in which is nice. Kommo-o also really appreciates mons like Clefable having less usage than before along with the increase of usage of mons that Kommo-o takes advantage of. Unfortunately, Pex is still as common and amazing as ever, which sucks for it and other mons it hates are rising up which still make it pretty difficult to use, so I don't think it should rise too high. Regardless of its bad points, its being slightly more explored than it was previously before Zygarde's ban, and thus I think with its slightly uptick in usage on HO seeing more exploration of it, it deserves a slight rise. Oh yea, and it's still as good a niche of a stall pick as ever, so there's that going for it too.

A- to B+

This one will probably be as controversial as the nom above, perhaps moreso since obviously Clef is still great, checks a lot of shit like Mega Medicham and Mega Lopunny, and it literally just dropped from A to A-. That said, being a mon that gives Pex so many opportunities to come in unless it opts for Thunder(bolt) is never good, especially for defensive Clef variants. IMO Clef has to run offensive sets to not feel like it'll do nothing (besides possibly set up rocks) vs CelePex balances or just Pex in general, which cuts into your ability to check certain things well which can sometimes be pretty important since Tbolt on defensive sets still let's these 2 in relatively easily, especially Pex. Overall, I'm just not a fan of Clef rn, but idt it should go any lower than B+ if it does drop because it's too good to go lower. I'm sure this nom'll be met with some controversy, but I think it's something to discuss and consider nevertheless, so go ahead and pick this nom apart if you so wish to do so.

&

A to A+ Agree

Gonna kinda loop these 2 together despite not performing the same role because they were both nommed to the same rank and these 2 are probably some of the bigger mons that largely benefit from Zygarde's ban, and SPL has really shown this very well. Rotom-Wash is probably one of the best mons as of now because it's just so good at being a Ground-immunity, keeping up offensive pressure, and just being annoying with Volt Switch and getting strong breakers in to do what they need to do. Meanwhile, CelePex cores are more dominant than they have ever been, and Celesteela is just such a good blanket check to a lot of shit in the metagame it's actually crazy. Not much else to really say about these 2.

A+ to S Agree

If my previous points before didn't make this obvious, I think mons that give Pex free turns are not in a particularly great spot rn because giving Pex free turns in this metagame is just a death sentence atm, and with Zygarde's ban it has taken the metagame by force. Honestly, I'd argue that Pex is the best mon in the metagame rn, it's that good, and it's becoming a meta defining mon in its own right. The fact that it can live most hits rather comfortably or pivot into most things to scout, then switch out and come back in at 50% the next time to continue to do its thing is a really big factor in why it's so good, and it's funny cause you'd think for a defensive mon that it'd be easy to take advantage of, but it really isn't between being punishing with Scald burns and spreading Toxic with lots of ease + Regenerator to make the punishment from staying to spread status very minimal and means it's always doing something every match. Setting up against it is not really an option to break it down either for a majority of mons because it'll just Haze the boosts away the next turn and be back to being healthy afterwards. Overall, Pex is IMO the best mon in the metagame and it should rise to S to reflect this, though even if it's arguable whether Pex truly is the best mon, it can't be denied that Pex is a metagame defining threat. Also read the post made by The Hallows for an honestly better explanation than I could ever make.

Other noms I agree with (I don't have much to add to these noms if anything)

C to B- (Should've happened ages ago tbh)

(Protean) A to A+

B- to B (think this could even go to B+ tbh but doesn't hurt to just stick with B for now)

C to C-

B- to B

B to B-

B+ to B (was actually gonna make this exact nom if I didn't get sniped)
All the UR noms cause those mons all suck and haven't been very relevant for months

Other noms not listed that happened recently I either don't agree with (I'll make a post later about these when I get the chance to) or I'm not gonna lean either way on them.

 

[Johnny's Pouch]

Rotom-H UR- C-

Everyone's hyping over Rotom-W, which I agree has really benefited from Zygarde's ban, but the Rotom formed that arguably benefited the most is Rotom-H. Thanks to Zygarde's absence, it doesn't have to worry about any ground type attack whatsoever bar Kyurem-B's Earth power and mold breaker excadrill's earthquake, the latter of which cannot switch into an overheat. Unlike its washing machine counterpart, Rotom-H is a good pivot can reliably deal with threats Rotom-W cannot such as tapu koko, tapu bulu, bisharp, mega scizor, serperior, ferrothorn, and the occasional thundurus, mega manectric, and mega charizard y. It also separates itself from heatran with volt switch, t-wave, pain-split, and a lack of a ground weakness thanks to levitate. Overall this Rotom form is the HEAT that should not be ignored.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-854842782: Rotom heat easily pivots out without repercussions into the wincon of the team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-854845623: Rotom completely shuts down an aurora veil setter and easily pivots out thanks to the combo of t-wave and overheat, while crippling another special attacker
*Not the best replays but they suffice on showing off rotom-H's nice pivoting

 

[Charmflash]

to UR:

to UR:
Yeah I forgot about the other Trick Room goons the other day, Trick Room is pretty bad, that’s all I have to say really. Been a while since we last saw it in an official tournament.

to B-:

to B:
Yeah I could see these two swapping places, thanks to Regenerator and Black Sludge Amoonguss has that much extra longevity letting it act as a much better check to the likes of Ash-Greninja and Scarf Kartana. Amoonguss has been popping up a lot lately in structures alongside Heatran.

to B:
Unexplored Pokémon, that’s for sure, but B+ is way too high. Hoopa-U has very small usage, especially in official tournaments, and low speed and physical defense make it very easy for a team with any glimpse of offense to not have too hard of a time against it. Just overall I think B+ is definitely overselling Hoopa-U.

That’s all for this post!

I dont really want to give my in-depth opinion about everything since that would be unwise but I'm responding to this post specifically because it covers the stuff I disagree with the most.

to B-: ???
Not really sure why Venu & Amoonguss have to be swapping places when they both got better. I think Amoonguss has already been represented accurately so I wont talk about him but my god what are you people smoking that you want to rank Mega-Venu down o_o Not only did it get directly better as a result of not having to deal with Zygarde anymore but it also serves as a counter to some of the most prominent threats right now like the electrics Tapu Koko & Rotom-Wash or offensive variations of Magearna & Mega-Mawile. It's unblockable Leech Seeds are a headache to switch into, especially with Stealth Rock up and also let it 1v1 a whole new variety of Pokemon & the ones it already is able to 1v1 even better while offering team support. Rank it up to B+

As for all the Pokemon in C- I think it is very logical and desirable to have the playstyles that have fallen out of flavor like Trick Room & Webs in exactly that subrank. They are not unviable just inconsistent/unreliable etc. which is exactly why they are in C-. Not really sure why people are so keen about proving the C- Pokemon suck but I suppose Dragonite & maybe MAero could actually get unranked? Sand is pretty decent rn so we could wait a bit with MAero even imo.

 

[Egor]

down to UR: Agree
Lol I forgot that Shuckle exists. It's a fucking passive piece of shit outclassed by Ribombee and Araquanid.

to B- and B respectively: Agree
Amoonguss is better than M-Venusaur because it doesn't take a Mega slot so you can run item on Amoonguss and another Mega in the team, and Amoonguss has Regenerator so, unlike M-Venusaur, it isn't forced to rely on low-PP recovery move to stay healthy.

all to UR: Agree
Trick Room really sucks now, so this playstyle's mons deserve to be UR.

down to C- : Agree
Zygod's departure to Ubers means that HO teams had lost their main weapon, and sand getting traction doesn't help Ninetales-A too. It's also outclassed by Screens Koko because it isn't weather-reliant and has higher Speed and access to Taunt and U-turn.

down to B: Agree
Mons that give Hawlucha troubles like Toxapex and M-Latias are on rise now, and meta just gets bulkier, so it's generally more dufficult to perform a sweep for Hawlucha.

all up to C+ : Agree
They're both too threatening and annoying to be at C.

up to S: Disagree
While Toxapex's defensive capabilities are definitely one of the best in the meta, it's just too passive for being at S rank. Also being somewhat vulnerable to Heatran (unless running Shed Shell) isn't really good.

 

[Canass]

Nidoking to C+
WIth the resurgence of Pex Steela cores and the proeminence of Magearna and Heatran, Nido is in a good spot as both a non ice beam/boosted mag check and a threatening breaker, 2hkoing and 1hkoing a good amount of the current meta, with sub allowing it to not be too prediction reliant. The Zyg ban allows it to drop ice beam without as much of an opportunity cost, although it still appreciates running it, it still has its problems like 4mss meaning that unless you drop sub it will always miss out on valuable coverage like ice beam/sludge wave and having a rough matchup in general against offense, but the amount of pressure it can put on bulkier builds Imo should bring it up.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Celesteela: 221-263 (55.6 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Leo]

STOP DISCUSSING NIDOKING

 

[Colonel M]

And I'm still going to delete (and infract) every nomination that lacks a replay if the Pokemon in question isn't ranked.

(Don't try to be cute and pretend you can dodge a Nidoking nom by posting about Nidoqueen).

 

[MetaNite]

I really don’t think Trick Room has changed much as a playstyle since Zygarde’s ban. It definitely hasn’t gotten considerably worse. While I don’t have an opinion really on Cress or Uxie, I do not think Marowak should drop. If anything, it has gotten better without Zygarde as it resisted its primary STAB, was not 2HKOed by Shadow Bone (unlike non-defensive Lando and Garchomp) and could OHKO it back. C- is a good place for it and not being too generous.

 

[Deleted User [433215]]

Kartana to a+
it has good physical defense, good speed and an INSANE 181 base attack and beast boost to INCREASE its insane attack. All of it's three viable sets (sd scarf and band) are all sweepers that every team has to for example scarf makes for an amazing revenge killer that can also sweep if the rest of the team takes super effective or neutral damage to it. The swords dance set can swords dance on forced switches to take out it’s checks (for example Heatran with sacred sword after an sd is a ohko) and then sweep and destroy Lando t with a z move (or Heatran or tornadus t) band is overkill but it’s a good late game sweeper that is terrifying in niche situations when the team is weak or neutral to one of it’s moves

Mamoswine to b+
good bulk, decent speed, huge attack and having the 2 best attacking types in the game (fight me!) this thing is quite literally a mammoth it destroys lando t, garchomp, heatran, m diancie and all of the good steel types (except for ferrothorn) it can ice shard weakened foes and icicle crash lando t and garchomp into oblivion and even annoy Ferrothorn with flinch hax and knock off and earthquake’s high base power is always useful against healthy Pokémon that resist it’s ice stabs and it is also useful to do damage to weakened threats that won’t die to ic or is so it can fit on many kinds of teams unlike the other b tiers who are good but only on one kind of team

Shuckle to ur
it’s purely a sticky web setter nothing else

Uxie to ur
it’s just a trick room setter that can’t do anything else but memento so it’s completely outclassed by Cresselia

Since you said you were gonna edit your post, I wanted to see what you had to say in why these pokemon should rise. This doesn’t tell us about how the metagame has changed to make these pokemon better than they are implied to be in the current rankings. This just tells us what the analysis does with nothing else or just less descriptive reasons to drop pokemon already discussed by other people. If you’re gonna nominate a rise, at least show what has changed to attempt to justify said rise. And I disagree with both of the noms you put forward that haven’t already been brought up by other people.

Kartana hasn’t really gotten that much better, at least not to the point of deserving a rise in my eyes. If anything, all the faster mons like Zam, Gren, and especially Tornadus-T have made its non scarf sets easier to offensively check and it’s scarf sets suffer from the meta becoming bulkier overall. The rise in Celesteela’s usage is also really annoying for it as Celesteela is one of Kartana’s strongest switch-ins. It’s still a good mon but not good enough to be A+ imo.

Mamoswine is one I could potentially see if we see it do work in SPL but I don’t think it’s better or even as good as other B+ pokemon like Charizard X, the rain duo, and even Mega Heracross. For balance breakers, pokemon like the aformentioned Mega Heracross, Mega Charizard X, Mega Mawile, Tapu Lele, Kartana, and even Manaphy are better at defeating balance than Mamoswine due to their higher speed, stronger priority, set-up options, higher raw power, and or any combination of those things. Most of them also hold better defensive utility than Mamoswine. All these things make Mamoswine harder to justify. Rotom-W becoming so damn good with Zygarde gone is not good for Mamo either as Rotom-W is one of, if not, the best switch-in OU has. Celesteela can also beat non metronome Mamo 1v1. Ferrothorn being more common than ever with the Zygarde ban is annoying for it too.