Resource USUM OU ULTRA Viability Ranking Thread

[Adapt or Die]

As for all the Pokemon in C- I think it is very logical and desirable to have the playstyles that have fallen out of flavor like Trick Room & Webs in exactly that subrank. They are not unviable just inconsistent/unreliable etc. which is exactly why they are in C-. Not really sure why people are so keen about proving the C- Pokemon suck but I suppose Dragonite & maybe MAero could actually get unranked? Sand is pretty decent rn so we could wait a bit with MAero even imo.

While I very much agree with the sentiment of this post (and think the TR mons should stay C-), I'd like to point out that people thinking shuckle should be unranked don't think it is because webs sucks or is unviable, but because shuckle really sucks. Ribombee and araquanid badly outclass it as a webs setter. Also shuckle is super easy to take advantage of even with encore/final gambit. In most battles it can set webs exactly once while draining momentum from your team. Shuckle is the definition of an unviable pokemone. A liability to its team and playstyle because it's badly outclassed in the one niche it has.

 

[MikeDawg]

down to UR: Agree
Lol I forgot that Shuckle exists. It's a fucking passive piece of shit outclassed by Ribombee and Araquanid.

I won't say too much, because shuckle discussion been beaten to death in this thread (but fuckle hasn't been dropped despite that), but I disagree with unranking it. It has a niche in having rocks and webs on one mon (and ho really needs team slots to cover everything, especially with zygarde gone), and it is capable of blocking or taking advantage of defog with both final gambit (on defogger/spinner switch in) and encore (if they are already in and try to defog on you). Webs is p strong rn in general imo. That plus the aforementioned perks warrants shuckle staying in C- imo. Also tbh, if you forgot shuckle even exists then you clearly don't have experience using it, and an uninformed one-liner opinion on a niche mon is kinda worthless.

@ whoever: don't respond to this part please, because shuckle isn't worth a multi-post discussion. it'll just sidetrack the thread from more important things. just wanted to give my thoughts since shuckle was brought up anyway.

all to UR: Agree
Trick Room really sucks now, so this playstyle's mons deserve to be UR.

I don't know why you think TR sucks right now. pulling a random replay from spl:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-406696

TR fares v well against both of these teams as far as i can tell. Marowak underspeeds and outright 1hkos 5 members of both teams with rocks, and even defensive variants of lando/chomp are 2hkod.

Calcs

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 240-284 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 215-253 (75.4 - 88.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 240-284 (78.9 - 93.4%) -- approx. 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 225-265 (70.5 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 229-271 (63.9 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And that's just one tr mon lol. Add 5 other mons + healing wish support, and it's easy to see how well-played tr can be really problematic for a lot of current teams. You yourself noted in ur post that crawdaunt has gotten better, and he is a tr staple as well. Moreover, marowak has utility outside of TR with lightningrod, especially since zygarde is gone and electric types have a bit more flexibility. It is a pretty hard stop to zapdos (who it can set rocks on) and checks koko well, and it can be troublesome for defensive teams because of its ghost typing, immunity to burn, and the fact that sableye cant safely switch in to block rocks. Speaking of zygarde, it was always a pain to deal with for tr teams, so its departure is a boon. If anything, TR or marowak should go up a subrank, tbh.

Uxie should drop though. Bronzong, mew, etc are better imo. At the very least, it doesn't have as strong a niche as staples like cresselia.

down to C- : Agree
Zygod's departure to Ubers means that HO teams had lost their main weapon, and sand getting traction doesn't help Ninetales-A too. It's also outclassed by Screens Koko because it isn't weather-reliant and has higher Speed and access to Taunt and U-turn.

I don't entirely disagree with screens in general (including ninetales) dropping because of the zygarde loss, but ur points about ninetales are p off-base. I don't know what "weather-reliant" is supposed to mean. Tyranitar can be annoying i guess when it switches in to block veil, but you can play around that with hail/switch to something that abuses ttar instead of setting screens. In reality, snow warning is a major boon considering it shuts down rain and sand rush excadrill, two things that are hugely problematic for HO teams. The chip damage is nice for negating leftovers recovery and securing some 2hkos. Considering freeze dry is 4x effective against 3/6 mons on a rain team including pelipper, ninetales becomes an actually potent threat against rain, and it's almost an insta-win at team preview. It gives a lot of defoggers trouble as well, considering it 2hkos zapdos after rocks, destroys lando-t/chomp, and hits fini and rotom super effectively (who dont have reliable recovery). Running icy wind is a solid option like rock tomb on lando/excadrill to handle torn and last-ditch cripple some threat to revenge laster. Hypnosis, safaeguard, encore, heal bell, disable are all really useful 4th moves that offensive teams don't typically have access to.

Koko is great for what it is and has good synergy with mons like hawlucha and tbolt magearna, but it has 0 damage output and is p much dead weight aside from setting screens. Between that, the utility of hail for more consistent matchups against weather teams, the workable offensive presence against many key mons, the extra moveslots for interesting support moves, and the benefits of a 1-turn screen setup in veil make it such that ninetales definitely has a place outside of koko's shadow, and that's supported by the consistent success of veil at the very top of the ladder that afaik koko screens hasn't been able to match.

Imo, Ninetales should not drop. not because screens hasn't suffered from zygarde's loss, but because ninetales has always been underrated anyway. with the HO nerf, ninetales is at an appropriate spot in C now.

also it outspeeds and sets up on medicham who is really annoying for lando/exca leads so thats nice.

Toxapex should rise to S. It was already really hard to break, and zygarde's ban makes that even more true. for offense in particular, sub stored power latias and non-electrium magearna for example are more difficult to run since zygarde isn't there to use toxapex as setup bait. having to deal with toxapex on top of other improved threats like heatran/celesteela/magearna constrains offensive options even more than they already were, which is enough to push toxapex over the edge, imo.

 

[Piggypassking]

Since you said you were gonna edit your post, I wanted to see what you had to say in why these pokemon should rise. This doesn’t tell us about how the metagame has changed to make these pokemon better than they are implied to be in the current rankings. This just tells us what the analysis does with nothing else or just less descriptive reasons to drop pokemon already discussed by other people. If you’re gonna nominate a rise, at least show what has changed to attempt to justify said rise. And I disagree with both of the noms you put forward that haven’t already been brought up by other people.

View attachment 157623Kartana hasn’t really gotten that much better, at least not to the point of deserving a rise in my eyes. If anything, all the faster mons like Zam, Gren, and especially Tornadus-T have made its non scarf sets easier to offensively check and it’s scarf sets suffer from the meta becoming bulkier overall. The rise in Celesteela’s usage is also really annoying for it as Celesteela is one of Kartana’s strongest switch-ins. It’s still a good mon but not good enough to be A+ imo.

View attachment 157624Mamoswine is one I could potentially see if we see it do work in SPL but I don’t think it’s better or even as good as other B+ pokemon like Charizard X, the rain duo, and even Mega Heracross. For balance breakers, pokemon like the aformentioned Mega Heracross, Mega Charizard X, Mega Mawile, Tapu Lele, Kartana, and even Manaphy are better at defeating balance than Mamoswine due to their higher speed, stronger priority, set-up options, higher raw power, and or any combination of those things. Most of them also hold better defensive utility than Mamoswine. All these things make Mamoswine harder to justify. Rotom-W becoming so damn good with Zygarde gone is not good for Mamo either as Rotom-W is one of, if not, the best switch-in OU has. Celesteela can also beat non metronome Mamo 1v1. Ferrothorn being more common than ever with the Zygarde ban is annoying for it too.

I wasn’t saying how they got better I was just saying how they were naturally good because when I joined forums this was closed so I couldn’t say how I feel about the Pokémon and now that Rotom wash is more common that makes Kartana a bit better

 

[Sickist]

I wasn’t saying how they got better I was just saying how they were naturally good because when I joined forums this was closed so I couldn’t say how I feel about the Pokémon and now that Rotom wash is more common that makes Kartana a bit better

Technically yes, but no at the same time. No one should ever hard switch Kartana into Rotom-Wash, as it's either getting burnt, take a solid chunk from Hydro, or get Volted on. Heck, maybe even tricked a bad item.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Hawlucha should definitely be up there next to Reuniclus in A- rank. This thing destroys teams that aren't prepared for it and depending on the set, gets a bunch of set up opportunities. The sub set can set up on Choice locked Kartana, Surperior, Tapu Bulu, Toxapex and most Landorus and Gliscor sets which is a poke that is rising in usage. It also gets Poison Jab to beat Koko and Stone Edge for Zapdos which are two of his best counters.

 

[Sickist]

Hawlucha should definitely be up there next to Reuniclus in A- rank. This thing destroys teams that aren't prepared for it and depending on the set, gets a bunch of set up opportunities. The sub set can set up on Choice locked Kartana, Surperior, Tapu Bulu, Toxapex and most Landorus and Gliscor sets which is a poke that is rising in usage. It also gets Poison Jab to beat Koko and Stone Edge for Zapdos which are two of his best counters.

Koko is by no means a counter. It is a hard check, resisting both STABs, but it does take a large chunk from a boosted Hawlucha and cannot directly switch in. Sometimes it cannot even OHKO Lucha depending on the Koko set and on the Seed Lucha uses. For example:

Vs. Lucha with right seed
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. +1 96 HP / 36 SpD Misty Seed Hawlucha: 218-260 (67.9 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. +1 96 HP / 0 Def Grassy Seed Hawlucha: 230-272 (71.6 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. +1 96 HP / 0 Def Electric Seed Hawlucha in Electric Terrain: 344-408 (107.1 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Koko

+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Koko: 210-247 (74.7 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Koko: 177-209 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Depending on your set, you may take it a little better, but odds are you're probably getting 2HKO'd.

Moving on from that, Hawlucha shouldn't rise.

Hawlucha cannot run all of those coverage moves, and suffers from 4MSS. It has to choose between Roost, Drain Punch, Poison Jab, Stone Edge, and Substitute all in that last slot (assuming first 3 are Acrobatics, HJK, and Swords Dance). With Rotom Wash's increasing usage, I'd say Lucha is almost worse than it was, as Rotom can almost stomach basically anything Hawlucha can yeet at it and proceed to status it or volt on it. The only thing Rotom has to fear is a +2 HJK to the face unless you're running max physdef on Rotom (I've legit seen it before and it may just be worth is considering Bandtar is less common compared to mega rocks/av). Also Pex just clicks Haze vs Hawlucha, and can either pivot, protect, etc.

Calcs vs Toxapex

+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 216-255 (71 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 127-150 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Calcs vs Rotom Wash

+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 262-310 (86.1 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery (standard wash)
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 253-298 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (that wack physdef rotom wash i was mentioning)

In summary, Hawlucha should stay at the rank it is at. It really didnt get much better after Zygarde left, and really isn't getting better either.

Edit: I'm gonna try and rap this up so I don't accidentally cause the mods to get agitated as I have in the past, I don't mean to.

Koko is definitely a counter since it can take anything unboosted or boosted as long as it's not poison jab and ohko it with an electric type move. It can also roost unboosted moves. Also the calcs you posted are without adding SR damage. The sub set which is currently probably the best set can sub on the volt switch.

Sub takes a ton of prediction, and the calcs still stand, even with rocks. Benchmarks are everything calc'd takes 12% from rocks. Moving on from the whole Sub/Rocks point, There is nothing that made Lucha any better after Zyg's ban. If you have anymore issues with such, message me on my profile SaveMeJebus

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Koko is by no means a counter. It is a hard check, resisting both STABs, but it does take a large chunk from a boosted Hawlucha and cannot directly switch in. Sometimes it cannot even OHKO Lucha depending on the Koko set and on the Seed Lucha uses. For example:

Vs. Lucha with right seed
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. +1 96 HP / 36 SpD Misty Seed Hawlucha: 218-260 (67.9 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. +1 96 HP / 0 Def Grassy Seed Hawlucha: 230-272 (71.6 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. +1 96 HP / 0 Def Electric Seed Hawlucha in Electric Terrain: 344-408 (107.1 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Koko

+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Koko: 210-247 (74.7 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Koko: 177-209 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Depending on your set, you may take it a little better, but odds are you're probably getting 2HKO'd.

Moving on from that, Hawlucha shouldn't rise.

Hawlucha cannot run all of those coverage moves, and suffers from 4MSS. It has to choose between Roost, Drain Punch, Poison Jab, Stone Edge, and Substitute all in that last slot (assuming first 3 are Acrobatics, HJK, and Swords Dance). With Rotom Wash's increasing usage, I'd say Lucha is almost worse than it was, as Rotom can almost stomach basically anything Hawlucha can yeet at it and proceed to status it or volt on it. The only thing Rotom has to fear is a +2 HJK to the face unless you're running max physdef on Rotom (I've legit seen it before and it may just be worth is considering Bandtar is less common compared to mega rocks/av). Also Pex just clicks Haze vs Hawlucha, and can either pivot, protect, etc.

Calcs vs Toxapex

+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 216-255 (71 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 127-150 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Calcs vs Rotom Wash

+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 262-310 (86.1 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery (standard wash)
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 253-298 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (that wack physdef rotom wash i was mentioning)

In summary, Hawlucha should stay at the rank it is at. It really didnt get much better after Zygarde left, and really isn't getting better either.

Koko is definitely a counter since it can take anything unboosted or boosted as long as it's not poison jab and ohko it with an electric type move. It can also roost unboosted moves. Also the calcs you posted are without adding SR damage. The sub set which is currently probably the best set can sub on the volt switch against Wash Rotom who is a poke who also suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome.

 

[king ak47]

i personally agree with sickist and dont think hawlucha should rise either, a lot of bulkier builds in this current meta that have ways around it. the part about tapu koko not being able to ohko hawlucha doesnt make much sense to me though, i cant imagine a situation where the terrain is not electric terrain when sending out tapu koko to check hawlucha and the most common koko sets should always ohko the hawlucha using smogon set with tbolt

 

[Sickist]

i personally agree with sickist and dont think hawlucha should rise either, a lot of bulkier builds in this current meta that have ways around it. the part about tapu koko not being able to ohko hawlucha doesnt make much sense to me though, i cant imagine a situation where the terrain is not electric terrain when sending out tapu koko to check hawlucha and the most common koko sets should always ohko the hawlucha using smogon set with tbolt

It would with normal Electric Seed Hawlucha, which is usually what Hawlucha will run. However, Hawlucha can run the seeds for Psychic and Misty terrain, which boost it's spdef, which allow Hawlucha to tank the thunderbolt.

 

[king ak47]

huh but if hawlucha uses misty or psychic seed to activate, sending out koko to check it means the psychic or misty terrain instantly turns back into electric terrain and it gets ohko lol or am i missing something here, ive never been in situation off a tapu koko vs a hawlucha where the terrain is anything but electric 0_o

 

[Sickist]

huh but if hawlucha uses misty or psychic seed to activate, sending out koko to check it means the psychic or misty terrain instantly turns back into electric terrain and it gets ohko lol or am i missing something here, ive never been in situation off a tapu koko vs a hawlucha where the terrain is anything but electric 0_o

True, I didn't think of terrain boosts, but koko and lucha sets vary anyways. As far as Lucha rising, the point still stands that it gained nothing and should not rise.

 

[Adapt or Die]

Hopefully this puts it to bed.

252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. +1 96 HP / 36 SpD Hawlucha in Electric Terrain: 330-390 (102.8 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

When I calc it I get ohko regardless of seed. I think Sickist just made a simple damage calculator mistake.

Regarding Hawlucha rise, fall, or stay I would argue stay at least for now. The initial meta shifts have favored some of its enemies (pex, rotom), but also its greatest ally (tapu koko). Increased Tapu koko viability is a net gain for Hawlucha as it finds an easier time fitting onto teams. That said it functions almost exclusively as late game win con, and not a particularly fantastic one at that. I think it's a mon where we need to take a wait and see approach, because its place in the new meta is not quite stable.

 

[Testgg]

Mega scizor to B+
This thing rose up in usage because it could potentially beat zygarde with curse but now with zygarde gone and stuff like heatran,rotom,celesteela,toxapex rising in usage I dont think this is as good of a sweeper as it used to be.Also I have been seeing magnezone a lot more on the ladder which also really sucks for scizor

 

[TheJ3estPenguin]

Mega scizor to B+
This thing rose up in usage because it could potentially beat zygarde with curse but now with zygarde gone and stuff like heatran,rotom,celesteela,toxapex rising in usage I dont think this is as good of a sweeper as it used to be.Also I have been seeing magnezone a lot more on the ladder which also really sucks for scizor

Agree
scizor is losing some usage in the current meta with zyg gone, and as Testgg said, we have been seeing more usage of magnezone, pex, and celesteela. heatran can be a direct counter to scizor because of the 4x weakness, but I'm personally not seeing scizor using superpower anymore, the the typical sd/bp/roost/uturn set can't really touch celesteela, toxapex, or heatran

 

[Adapt or Die]

I wasn’t saying how they got better I was just saying how they were naturally good because when I joined forums this was closed so I couldn’t say how I feel about the Pokémon and now that Rotom wash is more common that makes Kartana a bit better

If you're new to the VR thread welcome and just be aware there are some established protocols so that this thread doesn't become a complete mess. I'm relatively new to this forum myself and have learned to always read up on the protocols of all the threads. Basically in a nom you want to state how a mon performs in the context of the metagame not in a vacuum.

Now I do agree with kartana to A+. It seems to be thriving in the meta right now I think partially due to the net decrease in bulky grasses and increase in mons like rotom-w and toxapex as blanket checks that don't check it like at all. Also as the meta in general seems to have shifted bulkier it is running more z-sets/band and less scarf adding to its versatility.

I disagree with raising mamo. The meta has gotten A LOT worse for it with zygarde's ban. Less grasses, and rotom-w is the bane of its existence, to the point that last gen people ran a decent amount of freeze dry mamo, and rotom-w is having a moment right now.

 

[shieldpoke]

Alright I need to save VR from wack ass nominations so I'm gonna bring up a hopefully good and hot take.

to A+:

Wow this mega is completely out of this world. Not only has it's most reliable partner, Tapu Koko, got a massive boost in the meta, the number of Pokemon it can kick into oblivion has grown. Take a long hard look at the meta and then consider the reliable switch ins that the mon has once it gets in. I have 5 in total: Sableye-Mega, Reuniclus, Mew, Slowbro, Slowbro-Mega. If you don't have any of those 5 Pokemon, you better be ready to make some sacks or some god plays with Blacephalon and Greninja. Not only that, the rise of CelePex, FerroChomp, and Sand only boosts its Huge Power. You might say, what about Alakazam-Mega and Mega-Latias, and yes those are both decent answers.... after you sack a pokemon. Let's take a look at some actually relevant calcs.

Calcs

CelePex:

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 28 Def Celesteela: 336-396 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This means that fake out into HJK kills.


252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 302-356 (99.3 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery

Gone.

Alakazam-Mega:

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 250-294 (99.6 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

It is also of note to say that shadow ball only has a 75% chance to ohko, and that this calc exists.

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 103-122 (41 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Goddamn.

Latias-Mega:

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 150-177 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This forces Latias-Mega into a situation in which you have to roost and this gives a free switch into greninja-ash, another common switchin.

FerroChomp:


252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 369-435 (103 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The other calcs are fairly obvious. The rocky helmet garchomp set is forced to run max speed to revenge kill this complete monster of a pokemon.

Rotom-W:

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 253-298 (83.2 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The current darling of the meta can come in after one mon dies and threatens a wisp, but unfortunately it cannot come in on any move medicham makes as even ice punch puts it within kick range.

Magearna:


252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 313-370 (103.9 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

No setup oppurtunity to be found, though this is an irrelevant calc lmao since noone is sending this in on a kick.


252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 313-370 (103.9 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Tornadus-Therian:
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 328-388 (109.3 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 262-310 (87.3 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 213-251 (71 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 212-249 (58.5 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 328-386 (90.6 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 261-307 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Torn is literally only a switchin a single time. And it has to abuse regenerator against its foes a fuck ton in order to become a pivot again.

Counters/Checks/Revenge Killers Whatever:

Greninja: This mon consistently revenge kills many pokemon, and Medicham is no exception.
Blacephalon: With some good reads this mon can fire off a shadow ball or start setting up with a substitute cm.
Sableye-Mega: Completely walled, but this mon has fallen slightly out of favor as aggron mega challenges it for the throne of stall megas.
Reuniclus: Free setup for the blob
Slowbro-Mega: Scald burns or toxic
Tornadus: If this is your last mon and you are somehow in a 1v1 with Medicham-Mega, you win unless you miss hurricane.
Rain: Drowned.
Kartana: Leaf blade ohkos Mega-Medicham banded or not.

Weaknesses:

The main weakness of this pokemon is the speed. It's outsped by the more speedy pokemon in this meta and its low bulk means it can get chipped down fairly easily. If one can force the mon to come in too many times on hazards, it can be an easy kill for any priority move or faster mon. Fortunately, the volt turn pivots in SMOU are out of this world and allows it to come in with far less hassle.

Also HJK misses.

Conclusion:
Medicham-Mega frankly has little to no switchins in this meta and everything is about to catch a kick in the face. The defensive cores simply aren't prepared. You must make predictions everytime it comes it and it appears as though it is godsend for aggressive players. It is high time for it to join the ranks of Mawile-Mega (who is slower and could be said to have a different niche). I hope y'all enjoyed my post!

Edit: HJK a mega aggron stall in the neck and its gone.

 

[TheJ3estPenguin]

to A+:

Disagree
I'm not sure that this mon needs to rise, because of a number of different reasons. Sure, it is really powerful, but some of the most common threats like

I have 5 in total: Sableye-Mega, Reuniclus, Mew, Slowbro, Slowbro-Mega.

Lele and Clefable completely wall this mon. I think it's fine where it's at.

 

[shieldpoke]

Disagree
I'm not sure that this mon needs to rise, because of a number of different reasons. Sure, it is really powerful, but some of the most common threats like

Lele and Clefable completely wall this mon. I think it's fine where it's at.

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

it really doesn't


252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele in Psychic Terrain: 207-245 (73.6 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

absolutely not

 

[Finchinator]

Lele and Clefable completely wall this mon. I think it's fine where it's at.

I think that Mega Medicham to A+ is silly because it's hard to build consistent structures with, but... this is absolutely wrong. Clefable is a shaky check whereas Tapu Lele is only a one-time answer IF it's Choice Scarf, which is by far the least common set currently.

 

[Egor]

down to B: Agree
Yeah, Hoopa-U is a nightmare to switch into, but its low Speed and Defense are exploitable for many teams. Also Hoopa hasn't seen much usage recently, and it fits fairly low amount of teams.

up to A+ : Agree
Really nice balance breaker with amazing Speed & coverage capable of decimating many common defensive backbones like BuluTran and GliscorPex with the right set. Additionally, it has seen decent traction during SPL.

down to B+ : Agree
The increased amount of CelePex cores and Magnezones means that M-Scizor is easier to handle for many teams. Heatran being better doesn't help M-Scizor too.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

it really doesn't


252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele in Psychic Terrain: 207-245 (73.6 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

absolutely not

To add to this, most players are running less defensive sets on Clef now that Zygarde is gone

Also, definitely agree with Scizor dropping for now although with Zygarde gone, he's now free to use those defensive evs on speed to help him out with his problem match ups.

 

[Colonel M]

I think the arguments used against Mega Medicham's rise were bad, but a lot like Finch said I think that Clefable is and always will be a rocky check at best while Lele is ??? since it also takes a metric fuckton from Adamant Zen Headbutt.

As for other nominations - definitely agree with Protean Gren to A+. Its versatility while being able to run a couple different items (Z Crystals, Expert Belt, Life Orb, Sash, Scarf) makes it a pretty potent and pretty splash able teammate. Spikes are still greatly appreciated in a variety of builds and some of Ash Gren's checks don't like how dirty Protean Greninja plays against them sometimes.

I think Gliscor should rise to A. It's a very good teammate in a lot of builds and is pretty effective in whatever is needed to be done. SD is a little trickier to use since Celesteela is creeping up higher in usage everyday, but there is always Magnezone support for it. Meanwhile, SR Toxic or Defog sets are still very nice to use in teams and it's nice to have around for taking a fair amount of abuse from some mons like bulky Heatran.

Mega Pinsir -> B

Probably a lot harder to argue for, and I will say it isn't a Pokemon that I feel screams bad by any means, but it's a lot harder to justify than some of the B+ Pokemon IMO. I feel rain is a lot more consistent of a playstyle than a lot of teams that use Mega Pinsir personally, and there are some Pokemon like Serperior (a Mon I think is lowkey A- but I feel Finch would choke me for saying that), which has been pretty successful with Glare and sometimes niche sets like Scarf. Being in the same tier as Excadrill and Tyranitar also seems a bit odd since those two have been used a lot more consistently as of late too.

Jirachi - B

Jirachi is a pretty competent teammate this time around, and it has shown to be a great asset to a lot of teams looking for a couple of roles like Healing Wish. Think it's a lot better than some of the B- Pokemon currently and aligns with a lot of the B Rank Pokemon personally.

 

[robofiend]

Medi to A+ is wrong: Medi does have switch ins like RH Torn-T, Reuniclus, Mew, M-Sableye, Tapu Fini, Clef, etc.. Some of those are more sturdy than others, but that's not really the point. The point is that M-Medi has a "just ok" speed tier, needs support to work, fails to break common stall cores, and doesn't offer a lot in terms of versatility. While it's still a great mon, it's just not comparable with other A+ mons in terms of versatility, defensive presence, longevity, setup options, need for team support, and speed tier.

Zapdos from B+ to A-: still not great, but much better now that Zygarde's gone. Zappy is one of the few physical offense blanket checks, pinning Kokolucha, Kartana, Gyarados, Fly-Z Lando, M-Scizor, and others in one handy package. Unique typing, access to Roost, Defog, Heat Wave, HP Ice, Volt Switch, and 2 useful abilities (one of which has a 30% chance of crippling whoever is attacking) gives Zapdos a unique combination of traits that also have made Skarmory and Rotom-W a lot better as of late.

Jirachi from B- to B: This is the truth. Rachi is straight up abusive to a lot of the meta, it counters Lele and most Prot Gren, has a chance against Zam, eats a couple Kyu-B attacks, survives M-Latios, checks most Magearna sets, and it can hold its own against Bulu, Torn-T, Clef, and other annoying shit like Chansey. With Body Slam it can put faster opponents like Scarf Lando or Heatran on their heels, with U-Turn it can help get stronger teammates in safely, with Iron Head it can pull off deadly hax sweeps, and it's a great support mon since it can Wishpass and SR. Without Zygarde in the tier Rachi is a lot more appealing as a Para spreader and general support mon. On top of all of this, it has underexplored options like Healing Wish, Doom Desire/Future Sight, and Z-Happy Hour.

 

[Scuba Diver]

I think it's time to drop Gengar from C+ to C. The meta is just too fast and too bulky to use Gengar for any reason. It's outclassed as a breaker by Blacephalon and as a cleaner by Ash-Greninja and Alakazam. Speaking of Ash and Mega Zam, they are ubiquitous and easily OHKO it. Scarf Lando is also extremely common. While Gengar can in theory run some interesting tech moves, it's really just not doing anything anymore. Gengar struggles to break the ever common Celepex cores in light of Zygarde's ban. I challenge anyone to build a team that wouldn't be better served by the aforementioned special attackers. In practice I think the best thing Gengar can possibly do in a match is perhaps trick a scarf onto a Pex. Maybe hitting something with wisp? (Blacephalon can do both of these things I might add!) I also don't think Gengar is as viable as its fellow C+ members, as each of them (barring regular Latios I guess) have a distinct niche that can't easily be replicated. The decreased viability of Tangrowth in light of Zygarde's ban is also detrimental to Gengar, as that was something that could be hit with a Sludge Wave (protean Greninja is the best offensive poison type in OU lol).

 

[Reviloja753]

Heracross-Mega from B+ to B or B-

This was a long time coming. Tornadus-T blows it back and is super good right now. Heatran may need to watch out for Close Combat but otherwise also beats it so long as it is faster. MegaZam just needs to come in on Close Combat and also is better now. Tangrowth also isn’t as good anymore with Zygarde launched into the stratosphere. Magearna is also being tossed around to move up to S, and it just switches into Mega Heracross and either sets up on it, nukes it with Fleur Cannon or some combination of both. While I understand it has a niche, I think all of these meta changes have not been kind to the bug, and I think it deserves a drop. If it were me, I would suggest B- because assuming it rises I think Jirachi is better than MegaHera and should reflect that, but if it only goes down to B that’s cool too.