Battle Tree Discussion and Records

I'm curious what the veterans of this thread would suggest to players who don't play Battle Whatever much but want to get a decent streak. Here are some of the tips I've seen from some of the lurking that I've done, including very basic stuff up to things that newer players may not know about:
  • Your 'mons need to be bred for IVs, trained for EVs. If you aren't sure about how your team should be trained, try... Hyper training works just fine here.
  • ... emulating the teams that have made it into the top streaks Somewhat agree, although this does breed a "i can't use anything original here" mindset
  • Look up the trainer sets to know what moves your opponent may want to use against you Turskain's tree calculator is better for this
  • Generally, assume the opponent will use the most optimal move against you, but know they have a small chance of a random selection This only applies to damaging moves, and there are some massive exceptions (like payback and multi-hitting moves)
  • Consult the Tree Speed Tiers list to make sure you know if you are going first or not. Helpful in cases where you might think you have a speed tie or if you forgot to consider Choice Scarf Turskain's calc can substitute for this, but I agree anyway
  • Save videos of the battles you lose so you can replay them (thanks Worldie and others) Agree, and you should also save replays of near-losses
  • Practice, practice, practice Agree
What other tips come to mind? This list feels pretty basic but I'm interested in tips that people who have played a lot of Pokemon but not a lot of Battle Whatever would need. For instance, are there any nuances about AI switching or using environmental moves (weather, hazards, terrain, rooms, etc.) that wouldn't be intuitive? Or perhaps that differ from the best (lol) AI used in-game prior to postgame?
AI will make a resist-switch when:
a) they have a mon whose ability makes it immune to the move you just used
b) they have a mon who is resistant but not immune to the move you just used, AND has a move that hits your active poke super-effectively

AI will make a "i can't do anything with my active mon" switch when all of these conditions are fulfilled:
-their active mon has at least 1 attacking move (not status)
-they are unable to select an attack that would affect your poke
-they have a mon in reserve with at least 1 selectable attacking move that would affect your poke (i.e. cannot be out of PP)


It's really cool that members of the community have built the Potentially Useful Resources list on the original post, so thanks for that.
My comments in bold. Actually I should probably make a "known AI quirks and tendencies" post here.
 
I'm curious what the veterans of this thread would suggest to players who don't play Battle Whatever much but want to get a decent streak. Here are some of the tips I've seen from some of the lurking that I've done, including very basic stuff up to things that newer players may not know about:
  • Your 'mons need to be bred for IVs, trained for EVs. If you aren't sure about how your team should be trained, try...
  • ... emulating the teams that have made it into the top streaks
  • Look up the trainer sets to know what moves your opponent may want to use against you
  • Generally, assume the opponent will use the most optimal move against you, but know they have a small chance of a random selection
  • Consult the Tree Speed Tiers list to make sure you know if you are going first or not. Helpful in cases where you might think you have a speed tie or if you forgot to consider Choice Scarf
  • Save videos of the battles you lose so you can replay them (thanks Worldie and others)
  • Practice, practice, practice
What other tips come to mind? This list feels pretty basic but I'm interested in tips that people who have played a lot of Pokemon but not a lot of Battle Whatever would need. For instance, are there any nuances about AI switching or using environmental moves (weather, hazards, terrain, rooms, etc.) that wouldn't be intuitive? Or perhaps that differ from the best (lol) AI used in-game prior to postgame?

It's really cool that members of the community have built the Potentially Useful Resources list on the original post, so thanks for that.

Use 100% accurate moves whenever possible. Really the only non-100% accurate moves I'd even remotely consider as the 4th move on something would be like Toxic (even Thunder Wave and Will-o-Wisp can be emulated with various widely-distributed 100% accurate moves that lower the opponent's speed or attack, and you can also look to use never-miss Toxic from a Poison type) or ones like Icy Wind or maybe Rock Slide in doubles that are used for the side effects. Patching up an inaccurate attack one time with a Z crystal is tempting, but there are already plenty of powerful Z moves that come from accurate attacks (Garchomp, Kommo-o, Aegislash, Tapus) and especially in Singles there's already a lot of competition for item slots (you have to have a pretty good reason to leave Leftovers and a Mega Stone off your team).

Having super-effective coverage is not that important - whether you do 51% or 99% with an attack, you're still giving the opponent a chance to do something in return and get a game-changing critical hit or status effect. It's actually quite rare to do 100% minimum to anything reasonably bulky (especially while sticking to accurate moves), and a lot of sweepers or all-out attackers that are popular in PvP formats rely on fortunate damage rolls and/or chip damage from Stealth Rock/Spikes to OHKO things. You can't rely on that for a long streak (not to mention all the Sash/Sturdy turning OHKOs into 2HKOs). This becomes more apparent as you work up to facing set 4s with 31 IVs; if you're using something's unboosted/unSTAB'd Thunderbolt/Energy Ball to deal with Water types, odds are you'll be in for a rude awakening when Mega Gyarados sets up a Dragon Dance and still has enough HP left to avoid getting revenge killed by any priority attacks.

You will have to adjust your notion of what checks/counters something; if your 'counter' to something that poses a threat with an Electric move will lose if it gets paralyzed on the switch-in and crit or fully paralyzed the following turn, for the purposes of this mode you don't actually have a counter. Similar to the previous point about offensive coverage, the actual damage and the potential for secondary effects is much more important than the super effective/not very effective thing, especially against AI teams that get to abuse the powerful yet inaccurate moves (even OHKO moves) because they only have to win once - most Rock resists are still going to take a lot of damage from Choice Band Head Smash, for example.

You don't get any bonus for winning 3-0 or 4-0 rather than 1-0, so in a pinch it's almost always better to sacrifice your current Pokemon and then send in a better matchup rather than open yourself up to more hax. It sounds obvious, but it's easy to forget because even when you have a high streak going, most of the Pokemon you see will be from lower tiers and you may go for long stretches without having a single team member faint. Following the first three tips will naturally allow for more opportunities to make smart sacrifices. In Singles this can manifest itself as using a debuffing move before your current Pokemon is KOed (rather than switching to something that doesn't 100% wall the opposing Pokemon or trying to do middling damage with some coverage move) in order to deliver an assured win or set-up opportunity for one of your backups; in Doubles this can mean ganging up on a bigger threat to ensure it's taken out rather than trying to get 2 non-guaranteed KOs in a single turn.

The AI does not predict or adapt to your play. Anything that seems to contradict this is the result of relatively rigid rules that tend to go unnoticed when they work in the player's favor (which is just as often if not more). For example, after a KO the AI will send out whatever can use the highest-powered move against your current Pokemon, even if it means sending in some Dragon type that has Draco Meteor before it sends in a Fairy type against a +1 Dragonite locked into Outrage. The AI does know your stats in a given turn (from EVs/IVs all the way to the boost from something like Choice Scarf) but doesn't use that information to deviate much from its very general plan of trying to KO you if it can that turn and otherwise liberally using its non-damaging moves (it will use stuff like Icy Wind/Bulldoze if your speed stat is higher and no other move KOs, even if Trick Room is up or your Pokemon has a Substitute that will not be broken by those moves). Therefore, there's not much value in using lures or sets that are popular for their surprise factor against human opponents. If you lead with something like Substitute Mega Salamence, it's a pretty solid bet that everything with a status move that can't KO it is going to try using that status move whenever Salamence doesn't have a Sub, regardless of what number battle or how many turns into a particular battle it is.

EVing is pretty uncomplicated to the point that I have to laugh when I see people claiming to have 'invented' a spread for something; if you look at the speed tiers and spend a couple minutes playing around with a stat calculator you will come to the same conclusions yourself or at least be close enough that how you play + the RNG in battles will be much more of a factor than being different by a couple points here and there.

1. Figure out speed. The speed tiers are static and outspeeding something in order to KO, debuff, or set up a Substitute before the opponent moves takes on even more importance in the Battle Tree since status and secondary effects are often more worrisome than the actual amount of damage. In Singles it's best to avoid speed ties as a 50% chance is obviously not reliable and can open you up to having to take two hits in a row; in Doubles you have plenty of options to play around them, like Fake Out, baiting attacks with Protect or setting up field effects that make your Pokemon go first.

2. If it's an attacker max out its attacking stat. If it's supposed to switch in on things and take hits, the vast majority of the time you can't go wrong with maxing out its HP (excepting mons like Chansey/Blissey whose HP is way higher than their defenses) or at least getting it to the highest number for Leftovers/Poison Heal.

3. You're close enough that it's mostly cosmetic tweaks from here. If Defense and Sp. Def are close to each other and the Porygons may be an annoyance to your team, make Sp. Def a point higher so Download doesn't boost Special Attack. There's some stats where you'll find having 248 or 252 EVs will give you the same stat value at level 50, so that can give you an extra point to use elsewhere. You can play around with something like Turskain's all vs. one damage calculator to see if there are borderline attacks/crits you'll be guaranteed to survive with more EVs in either physical or special defense, but at the same time there are plenty of successful teams that were off by a point or two because they messed up on EVing (guilty as charged) or just used spreads from Smogon analyses or VGC teams.
 
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My comments in bold. Actually I should probably make a "known AI quirks and tendencies" post here.
Didn't you actually make one for gen 6 facility already? I believe you linked it to me at some point while I was writing the article... Maybe even linking that one in the OP wouldn't be a bad plan if you feel too lazy to write a new one :D
 

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I'm curious what the veterans of this thread would suggest to players who don't play Battle Whatever much but want to get a decent streak.
Late, but here's a good tip: come visit us on the Battle Tree Discord server! We love to have new friends to chat with and it's a great place to get feedback on your teams, as well as pick up tips from the veterans :)
 

Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
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I had a Steel Triples team in Y; it didn't go too far, but I think that was more because of bad play on my part than because the team itself wasn't good. I wish I could get my hands on a Scizor, the Bullet Punch+Technician is wonderful.
I recently also was running MonoSteel in Maison Triples; I'm curious, what was the team? (NoCheese we can move this over to the Maison thread if you'd like, boss)
 
I recently also was running MonoSteel in Maison Triples; I'm curious, what was the team? (NoCheese we can move this over to the Maison thread if you'd like, boss)
Sadly, I don't remember the exact set. (I just fished up my Y game and it turns out I have a whole box devoted to steel-types...)

I know it was exploting FEARon, though. I think I had a Bronzong on one side and a Scizor on the other.

Edit: Also!
Gallade @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Steadfast
Level: 50
EVs: 108 HP / 148 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Memento
- Trick
- Thunder Wave / Flash
- Psycho Cut / Flash
HeadsILoseTailsYouWin's Gallade got me through the normal Singles and Doubles, but they are right that it's probably better to not have multiple Pokemon weak to the same moves, so I'm going to change the lead. I got an Aron off the GTS so I'm thinking Mega-Aggron, Kommo-o, and Mimikyu. I will add the sets when I figure out something that works.

Thank you!
 
I don't see how you can make Mega Aggron work without significant luck in singles sadly... it's slow, being a mega it can't hold a item, so you'd just be horribly vulnerable to hax and status... I'd recommend looking into something else :P
 
HeadsILoseTailsYouWin's Gallade got me through the normal Singles and Doubles
Do yourself a favor and never try singles-specific strategies (like cripple + set up) in doubles. The only successful doubles team that used a crippler strategy (Mahler's Exit) wasn't completely dependent on crippling the opponent to get its boosts in, and only needed a single boosting opportunity in order to set up its win condition. Using a Gallade that is only capable of neutering one of their mons puts you at a huge disadvantage in doubles.
 
I know. I went with it because I was too lazy to set up a dedicated team just for normal doubles. When I’m ready for the 50-win Super Doubles, I’ll come up with a new team.

Edit 3/31/19: I got lucky and scouted Mallow with her Power Herb Contrary Lurantis and Mega Sceptile. I used Mega-Charizard-Y to get past normal Multis but I don’t want to use a Pokémon with a 4x weakness in Super Multis. Does anyone have any thoughts on Pokémon that would cover/support Mallow’s team well?
 
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I wouldn't consider that to be a good scout at all, for several reasons:
1: Mallow's lead is super slow
This is easy enough to explain, a slow lead is unlikely to get much of anything done in a doubles environment. Never mind the Youth Athletes with their Jolteon/Crobat/Alakazam/Noivern/whatever, it's getting outsped by the likes of Mawile and Empoleon. With 2 opponents targetting it, you can bet your ass it'll die turn 1 half the time.

2: Both of Mallow's pokemon are unpredictable
At first, this doesn't seem like that much of an issue. However, predictability is the single most valuable thing in an AI multis partner, because having a predictable AI partner makes it much easier to plan out your play because that's one less thing that can change. An Eruption user like Typhlosion3 or Entei3 will pick Eruption 99% of the time, and as such it's a valid play to assume it will give you that chip damage against the likes of Slowbro.
On the other hand, the sets Mallow uses (Lurantis3 and Sceptile4) are not predictable at all. Lurantis is just as likely to use Payback against a neutral target as Solar Blade.
Now take Sceptile. Say you have Charizard and Sceptile out, against a Staraptor/Garchomp field (a fairly plausible scenario). What move do you think Mallow will order the sceptile to use?
Whatever move it is, it's not Dual Chop. It could use literally any of its other moves here, and I'll explain why.

-Leaf Blade is Sceptile's highest damage move against Garchomp. Now you're probably thinking "what?", but remember that the AI does not understand the multi-hit property of multi-hitting moves and simply sees Dual Chop as a 40 BP move. Since 90 BP > 40 BP x 2, the AI sees Leaf Blade as higher damage.
-Rock Slide is Sceptile's highest damage move against Staraptor. This choice is actually pretty reasonable for a human to make, but unexpected.
-Earthquake is a spread move that doesn't hit Sceptile's teammate. Never mind that it would only hit Garchomp, and for much less damage than Leaf Blade at that. The AI would still use Earthquake here

TL;DR get a better scout before attempting super multis. Something like a lead scarf Eruption user, Garchomp3 (scarf), Latios3 (specs meteor), Lucario3 (mega close combat spam), Metagross4 (inaccurate moves but it gets the job done), you get the idea.
 
Posting about an ongoing streak in Ultra Moon Super Singles, currently up to 230 with Omastar, Gliscor and Mega-Scizor.

I've been stalking this thread for quite a while, as well as reading through some of the Maison thread, stealing ideas and generally building up my knowledge of the Battle Tree.
SM/USUM is the first time I've tried out the battle facilities after only getting in to proper breeding towards the end of gen 6. This team stems from when I learned how to RNG breed in Ultra Moon a while back. Two of the first ones bred were Greninja and Scizor, being 2 of my favourites and liking their shiny forms.
I'd seen a Greninja/Gliscor/Mega-Scizor team on the Battle Maison leaderboard and having not used Gliscor much I decided to try the team out in the tree. I reached 362 wins with it on maybe the 3rd or 4th attempt, but didn't post it as by the time I got over the loss I couldn't really be bothered to do much of a write up, especially with it being someone else's team.
I loved the combo of Gliscor and Scizor but thought I'd try out a different lead, as much as I loved Greninja. Possibly something with a set up move like Dragon Dance or Shell Smash to see how that went. Of the obvious Dragon Dancers Salamence and Gyarados could both do with a Mega Stone that Scizor wasn't giving up and Dragonite shares too much of a weakness with Gliscor, so I started to look at something like Cloyster for Shell Smash with a Focus Sash. While looking in to other Shell Smashers I saw Omastar, who I'd always had a soft spot for ever since picking the helix fossil over the dome waaaay back in the original Blue. Its stats didn't look too bad either. Respectable Special Attack and while base 55 Speed is obviously more suited to a Trick Room team, Timid with max EVs meant it could hit a speed of 234 after a Shell Smash, not too shabby! It's typing is also perfect for the 2 backups, weaknesses to Ground, Electric and Fighting (hello Gliscor) and a 4x Grass weakness easily shrugged off by Scizor.
So I decided I'd give it a go and it's been surprisingly successful, had a couple of losses, but with only a few tweaks to Omastar's 4th move we've racked up over 200 wins. I don't know what I was expecting and didn't really have much of a target in mind, triple figures maybe, 200 at a push so it's brilliant to still be going. Although only just, after a spectacular stroke of luck in battle 211...
My target now is to try and get close to the lead Cloyster streak, but at 407 I think that’s a slim chance and looking a long way off at the moment.

The Team


Omastar @ Focus Sash (Jazz Hands)
Ability: Weak Armor
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31/10/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4HP, 252SpA, 252Spe
Shell Smash
Surf
Ice Beam
Confide
Weak armor helps in niche moments like switching back in to a physical attack to get a speed boost and get a Surf/IB off.
Timid at +2 outspeeds all but 4 Tree mons, 3 of which are a free switch to Gliscor anyway. Be wary of anything with a priority move, Thunder Waves should be handled by Gliscor, she doesn't mind burns too much though. Also dislikes Focus Sashes/Sturdy, she's not Cloyster after all.

Movewise Surf for a STAB attack and Ice Beam seemed the best second option for Dragon/Flying/Grass types. It's movepool beyond that is pretty cack though, with Earth Power the only other real attacking option.

The 4th move started as Protect, to scout sets etc. Then when I re-bred for a shiny I went for HPgrass, meaning you can SS and OHKO some stuff like Starmie and Greninja. Or at least gave me another option if an ice/water resist came out second to make a dent before fainting. This turned out to not be ideal, particularly against bulkier water leads like Primarina where my 'strategy' (yes it deserves those inverted commas) involved spamming HPgrass until Omastar fainted and finishing it off ASAP with Scizor.

I then thought about a crippling move for things that Omastar couldn't really handle, but weren't ideal for switching either. Mainly special attackers with strong water/ice attacks that Gliscor couldn't cope with (or would waste a ton of PP stalling) and would also hit Scizor for a decent chunk (it could still roost through most things but a crit or 2 was all that was needed to spoil the party)
Confide makes a lot of these far more manageable for Scizor. Slowbro/king for example (Slowking3 should still go to Gliscor though as it locks in to Focus Blast) and Kingdra34. It can also make it easier for Gliscor to toxic stall, minimizing the PP used on the first mon and making it more likely to finish behind a sub. Uxie 3 and 4 for example are a 2HKO for +2 surf, but can't break your sub at -1 and are also outsped by Omastar so you can save him for later if needed, albeit with a broken sash.
Thanks to the fact Confide also hits through Protect, I've managed to get both Sharpedo3 and Suicune down to -4, making it laughably easy for Scizor to fully set up.
This is not perfect by any means as most of the time you're either sacrificing Omastar or switching out with her sash broken, but I think it's the best option over the previous two I've tried. A lot of the time with HPgrass I had to resort to finishing something off with a quick Bug Bite or Bullet Punch, leaving Scizor unboosted for whatever came out next. At least with Confide I'm much more likely to be facing the second mon with either a set up, high health Scizor or Gliscor behind a sub (sometimes with Omastar still conscious as well)
Quick note that when I changed to Confide I re-bred (again) as my HPgrass Omastar had Swift Swim but Weak Armor is probably marginally more useful.


Gliscor @ Toxic Orb (Rahul)
Ability: Poison Heal
Nature: Careful
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
EVs: 204HP, 4Att, 44Def, 252SpD, 4Spe
Toxic
Earthquake
Protect
Substitute
A pretty standard Special Defensive Gliscor. Can't really remember why I went for 204HP/44DEF over 236HP/12DEF, which would give the sub an extra point of HP. 116 speed outspeeds Electivire34s Ice Punch which is handy. When I first used Gliscor on the Greninja team I frequently had to fall back on it to rescue me when my own incompetence lost one or both of the others, it's just ridiculously good in the Battle Tree.


Scizor @ Scizorite (Francis)
Ability: Light Metal (Technician)
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
Evs: 196HP, 252Att, 4Def, 4SpD, 52Spe
Bullet Punch
Bug Bite
Roost
Swords Dance
Originally had him with 28 EVs in speed to reach 99, handily outspeeding Feraligatr3 and it's waterfall flinches, with the rest put in to bulk. I've just changed that after realising that Milotic3 at 101 speed could be more easily handled as a lead if Scizor could switch in and roost through Hydro Pump PP, rather than wasting Omastar’s sash confiding it, so I dropped 3 points of HP to stick in Speed. I wouldn't move anything out of attack as a +6 Bullet Punch is a guaranteed OHKO on a few fire types like Typhlosion34, Darmanitan4, Mega Charizard-Y among others.

Most threats are situational. Things that are easily handled by Omastar if they lead are 10 times worse if they come out 2nd/3rd and worse still if Omastar isn't around to sacrifice. See Chandelure below. Likewise some leads take a bit more careful play (or luck) to sort out but are easily swept aside by a +6 Bullet Punch, Togekiss3 flinching everything in sight for example.

Boosters obviously need to be handled quickly before they get out of hand. Things like Virizion4 (with Rest as well!), Terrakion3, Scizor3 (get Gliscor behind a sub and life orb recoil it to death)
As leads or against a fully set up Scizor they're ok but make sure Gliscor stays well hidden behind his sub if you try to toxic stall, or in the case of Virizion4 switch to Scizor and get rid of it, it has 35 attacking PP and Rest...

A couple of specific ones.

Gyarados34 - I've not faced it as a lead yet but obviously a problem as it resists Omastar's moves, isn't susceptible to Confide and while Bug Bite can OHKO set4, just one flinch could ruin everything. Upon testing the one video I have and doing some calcs on the other set, it’s not actually too bad, you’ll just be at the mercy of the back-ups…
I have one battle video for set4 and on testing it seems to be pretty random in its Dragon Dance usage, sometimes Dragon Dancing, sometimes Waterfalling against Omastar. If it Dragon Dances turn one hit it with 2 +2 Surfs, this leaves it within range of 2 Bullet Punches, negating any Waterfall flinch-hax. If it Waterfalls turn one it’ll probably do the same turn 2 to KO Omastar. Bug Bite is a OHKO and as it hasn’t Dragon Danced yet, it probably will. If it Waterfalls a third time and flinches, you’re in trouble.
For set3, in theory if it DDs turn 1 you should be ok. If it DDs again you can get to +6 and Ice Beam OHKO. If it attacks turn 2, +4 Ice Beam and Bullet Punch KO. If for some reason it doesn't Dragon Dance turn 1, it can still be seen off by a +2 Ice Beam and Scizor, at the cost of taking a hit between Bullet Punches. Unless it flinches Omastar turn 1, in which case you’re probably screwed.

Chandelure34 - as a lead is comfortably dealt with by Omastar, but second or third can be a problem. Scizor can't OHKO at +6 and if it's got Infiltrator Gliscor is in trouble. EQ is a 2HKO and set4 only hits for 36% max, it may even use Calm Mind if you're lucky. Set3 can hit for 77% max though. Omastar can switch back in and surf once before dropping (provided it's at decent health) putting it in EQ range for Gliscor. But if she's gone you really need to pray it doesn't have Infiltrator, or sac Scizor while Bullet Punching and EQ KO. Which is fine for third mon, but if it's second out you put Gliscor in a 1v1 with no sub up. (see battle video 211) Noivern can be similarly bad for Gliscor, but at least falls to +6 Bullet Punch and notifies if it has Frisk which can help.

Volcarona34 – again as a lead is easy for Omastar to deal with. But +6 Scizor doesn’t KO and still leaves EQ as a 2HKO. Gliscor can handle it providing Toxic doesn’t miss, because if it does you may not get a second chance, and PP stalling is useless because Bug Buzz.

And lastly a few surprises that have tried their best to throw a spanner in the works.

Rotom-Wash4 - Thunder is an easy OHKO on Omastar, so of course it's going to Will'o'Wisp when I switch to Gliscor. Luckily the one time this happened it proceeded to not use Will'o'Wisp on Scizor as it Swords Danced and Bug Bite KOd it.
Regice2 - should have seen this one coming as Thunderbolt isn't a OHKO on Omastar, leading to Gliscor eating an Icy Wind...Scizor to the rescue again!

A couple of battle videos.
Major fuck up. Lead Azelf, but for some reason I had Mesprit in the damage calculator I was looking at. One of them has Fire Blast and the other doesn’t (can you see where this is going…) Confides from Omastar, then a surprise -2 Fire Blast takes Scizor to 5hp. Whoops. Gliscor saves the day, complicated a bit by Tornadus not using a second Rest when expected, luckily I still had Scizor to switch and help get Gliscor up to near full health. A burn to Gliscor on the switch or if Scizor had fainted would have been game over.

As described in the threats section. Rotom-Wash, easy free switch to Gliscor on the Thunder/Thunderbolt/Thunderwave. Except when it Will'o'Wisps instead. Then for some reason declines to Will'o'Wisp Scizor as he gets 2 Swords Dances off to sweep.

She leads with Togekiss3, which proceeds to flinch the shit out of Omastar and Scizor. Admittedly could have Bullet Punched twice instead of going for a Swords Dance, the fact Air Slash was a critical hit as well as a flinch didn't help much. Gliscor, never one to be left out, joins the flinch party. A second would have been the end but it misses instead and a few cycles of sub protect later I decide to risk a toxic, it lands and I manage to toxic stall Scarfchomp too. Out comes last mon Lucario to eat an Earthquake, phew.

The world's unluckiest Sharpedo. He must have thought he was about to educate Omastar on who's king of the oceans...Confide hits through Protect twice and a Hydro Pump misses to allow Omastar to switch out at -4, still with half health, and let Scizor set up easily. Same thing happens a few battles later with lead Suicune34. Special attacking Protect leads are fun.

Well this should have been the end! An easy Scizor set up on Venusaur and all is going well. Out comes Chandelure. Shit. Back to Omastar to Surf 2HKO. Third mon is Charizard. Double shit. It's Mega-Y, who Solar Beams Omastar. Go to Rahul to activate Poison Heal and it Solar Beams again into Protect. Hmm...I've had battles before where it randomly Solar Beams purely because Sun is up, despite Heat Wave doing near double the damage. I gamble on a third Solar Beam. Even if it Heat Waves I have a slim, roughly 1 in 3 chance to get a sub up...it uses Heat Wave…
HEAT WAVE MISSES!
And from there it's a formality as I stall out the rest of its Heat Waves, with a couple more Solar Beams thrown in, and Toxic it to death.
If it had been Charizard-X I'm pretty sure it would have Dragon Danced as I subbed. And possibly once more to guarantee a KO allowing 1 try at Toxic. But either way I was on the receiving end of some pretty favourable luck.
This battle highlighted a massive flaw in my play in that I look up movesets and calcs etc but don't look at trainer rosters and possible second/third mons. If I did I would have realised what an utterly terrible idea it is to set Scizor up against a trainer almost exclusively dedicated to fiery death...it's something I'm going to start checking from now on.

Thanks for reading!
I’ll update once the streak comes to an end.
 
Does anyone know if the AI has strategies programmed, or just a set of rules for which move to pick under certain conditions?


Scizor @ Scizorite (Francis)
Ability: Light Metal (Technician)
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
Evs: 196HP, 252Att, 4Def, 4SpD, 52Spe
Bullet Punch
Bug Bite
Roost
Swords Dance
Originally had him with 28 EVs in speed to reach 99, handily outspeeding Feraligatr3 and it's waterfall flinches, with the rest put in to bulk. I've just changed that after realising that Milotic3 at 101 speed could be more easily handled as a lead if Scizor could switch in and roost through Hydro Pump PP, rather than wasting Omastar’s sash confiding it, so I dropped 3 points of HP to stick in Speed. I wouldn't move anything out of attack as a +6 Bullet Punch is a guaranteed OHKO on a few fire types like Typhlosion34, Darmanitan4, Mega Charizard-Y among others.
Congratulations on the streak! If you don't mind my asking, why is this one nicknamed Francis?
 
Does anyone know if the AI has strategies programmed, or just a set of rules for which move to pick under certain conditions?
Pretty much the latter.
The only reason they actually seem to have "strategies" is due to the fact several trainer rosters are specifically built to synergize around one of the high priority choices (es: rain trainers have mostly Pokemon who benefit from being under rain)
 
AI move selection is based on the premise of giving each move a "score". As far as I can see, no one has deciphered the logic for assigning scores in the current games, but it's the model they've worked under ever since GSC and so likely to be intact in some form. After giving each move a score, it doesn't necessarily pick the highest-scoring move every single time, but takes a weighted poll that makes the high scores more frequent while allowing a bit of random chance for a lower-scoring move to be chosen, especially if there's not that big of a difference between them.

Moves that are obviously pointless, like Psychic against a dark or Sleep Talk when they're not asleep, are given dismissive scores around the -10 to -12 range.
They do run damage calcs on their damaging moves (with full knowledge of your stat spread during this process), and if one of those moves has you in KO range, that move gets a significantly boosted score--from empirical testing, opponents have about a 95% chance of picking such a move when that's an option. If there are multiple such moves, and one of them has priority (other than perhaps Sucker Punch, which I haven't looked into their evaluation of), the priority move gets a further score increase.
Note that when Z-moves are involved, they only check the scores of the base move, and if the move that wins out anyway is one that can be powered up by a held Z-crystal, there's about an 80% chance that they'll go ahead and use their Z move on that, seemingly without any other consideration. This means that if a Z-move would be a guaranteed KO, but the base move doesn't get there, it only scores the non-KO version of the move and has to hope that's what wins out.
Opponents also only evaluate the position that appears at the beginning of the turn, without taking into account changes in the mean time. So while they will always click the first Mega Evolution button possible, and always as soon as possible, something like a lead Charizard-4 will evaluate its moves without knowing that it would receive STAB, Tough Claws, or the increased Attack stat to power up a turn-1 Dragon Rush. Unless it's already in KO range for regular Charizard's stats, it's prone to do something else, most commonly Dragon Dance.
If no move appears to be in KO range, the move with the highest power (after factoring in type matchups) gets a score boost by default, but other moves can jump up the list depending on their side effects. Most field effects (including weather, and one-sided effects like Reflect) get score boosts if they're not already in effect. Trick Room is elevated if it's not already in effect and they have the slowest mon on the field on their side (which doesn't necessarily have to be the TR user), or if it is already in effect and you have the slowest. Moves that have side effects that might help the opponent outspeed you (like Flame Charge and Bulldoze) get score boosts if they're not already faster, and of course stat-boosting moves score highly under they get strong enough to be in KO range at which point that codepath takes over. If Fake Out or First Impression is in position to be used successfully, they also give a strong weight toward that, because they might as well use it on what's probably going to be their only chance to do so.

One other thing I've tested in particular is that if they have the choice between using a move to deal a bunch of damage (but not all of it), or using Protect (as long as Protect isn't stale, i.e. used successfully last turn), and no other moves have side effects that stand out, whatever scores the moves are being assigned in that case, seems to lead to them choosing Protect about 5/8 of the time. Obviously when Protect is stale, it takes a big hit to its score.
 
Thank you! That makes sense!

I’m at battle #40 at Super Multis! When I beat 50 I’ll post my team and my partner’s team!
 
I feel bit embarrassed but I can't get past 19 win streak on super singles or super doubles. I also lack BP atm (I'm saving for mega stones) so I rather don't use it for scouting. :D

I'm atm working on super double team and aiming for at least 50 streak.

This is what I got:

169532

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
252 SPE / 252 ATT / 6 HP
Naive / Skill Link
Shell Smash / Rock Blast / Hydro Pump / Icile Spear


169533

Clefable @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 DEF / 6 SP.DEF
Bold / Unaware
Follow Me / Moon Blast / Toxic / Moonlight



169534

Xurkitree @ Psychium Z
252 SPA / 252 SPE / 6 HP
Modest / Beast Boost
Hypnosis / Discharge / Energy Ball / Protect



169535

Garchomp @ Garchompite
252 ATT / 252 SPE / 6 HP
Jolly / Sand Veil
Sandstorm / Earthquake / Stone Edge / Poison Jab


Team Weaknesses: Grass / Ground / Fairy
Team Resistances: Fire / Water / Electric / Flying / Bug / Dark

Main strategy:

Cloysters uses Shell Smash 1-2 times depending on opponent. Clefable spams Follow Me to tank all opponent hits. Moonblast is for finishing if Cloyster fails to OHKO.

+2 Icile Spear can burst through and outspeed Tyrantrum-4, Terrakion-3, Aerodactyl-4
+2 Rock Blast can burst down Walrein-4, Volcarona-3, Starmie-4

Cloyster takes 1 hit when Clefable needs to heal up.

Major weaknesses for this setup are teams that focus on status conditions (T-wave/Confusion Ray) since I lack Safeguard. Taunt is usually not an issue since even 1x Shell Smash is quite strong. Clefable can be OHKOed by Mega-Metagrosse's Meteor Smash which will also breaks this strategy.

When these 2 fail (like v.s Colress when he got Electrode-3, Metagross-4, Klinklang-3 and Magnezone-3) I got Xurkitree and Garchomp as a backup. Both are really strong at sweeping and also did prove that they can stop Steel team from stomping even without Fire or Fighting coverage.

I'm not happy with Garchomp's move set. Poison Jab can't OHKO any bulky fairy types so it's like a suicide mission anyway. I might replace it with Outrage or Dragon Claw since I can't use it to beat fairies anyway. I remember that in the past (gen 4) people did use Fire Blast with Garchomp but honestly it doesn't work anymore. I checked it with BT calculator and it was doing 70% dmg (Mega) to common Steel-types at best and it's not even guaranteed to hit.

I'm not even sure about Xurkitree even though it did prove itself once. I'm atm checking pokédex if there is any other proper pokémon to pair up with Garchomp. I might try Magnezone (HP:Fire, T-bolt, Protect, Flash Cannon). :)

I'll edit this msg bit later when I got time and some results.



There isn't really anything else to this team.
 
The short version I can give you is: Don't try to use setup for doubles.
It's not going to work consistently, and your team is heavily reliant on setup.

I've memed with Follow Me Clefairy/Clefable for a while, and while it's good on paper, it only "works" with certain combinations and is heavily susceptible to turn 1 hax (on top of leaving you open to trick room setters and lot of weather shenenigans, as soon as you run into a trick room setter turn 1 you autolose with your composition).

Also, don't use Mega Garchomp. Your team lacks speed support, and the drop in speed is too significant to justify using it, expecially considering you'd have to set sand yourself. Might as well just use Garchomp himself.
If you want to use a "disquake" combo with Xurki and Garhcomp and without speed control, scarfing Xurki is going to be more effective.

There's plenty of things we could be saying about that team composition but the best advice is: don't try setup. Use independant mons.
 
Also Earthquake on a team where no member has an immunity or even a resistance is suboptimal. You could give Garchomp a Groundium-Z to bypass that problem at least for a turn. But as Worldie said, there are several things that may be improved or reviewed.
 
The short version I can give you is: Don't try to use setup for doubles.
It's not going to work consistently, and your team is heavily reliant on setup.

I've memed with Follow Me Clefairy/Clefable for a while, and while it's good on paper, it only "works" with certain combinations and is heavily susceptible to turn 1 hax (on top of leaving you open to trick room setters and lot of weather shenenigans, as soon as you run into a trick room setter turn 1 you autolose with your composition).

Also, don't use Mega Garchomp. Your team lacks speed support, and the drop in speed is too significant to justify using it, expecially considering you'd have to set sand yourself. Might as well just use Garchomp himself.
If you want to use a "disquake" combo with Xurki and Garhcomp and without speed control, scarfing Xurki is going to be more effective.

There's plenty of things we could be saying about that team composition but the best advice is: don't try setup. Use independant mons.
Okay so this actually explains a lots of things. :D I've been thinking too much about specialized teams that require a setup. I had quite nice streaks in the past with Battle Subway with using Skill Link Cloyster so that was one of the reasons I was trying it again.

And yeah, Trick Room. I don't know how to counter that in general expect that using something bulky.

And yeah, setting up sand myself is quite terrible tactic so if I use Garchomp I need to get another one with other ability. I do have both Hippowdon and Tyrannitar but my experience with them hasn't been so great either. I might try Scarfing Xurki just until I get more BP to buy more mega stones. I also need train more pokémon in general and see what other players have used.

Also Earthquake on a team where no member has an immunity or even a resistance is suboptimal. You could give Garchomp a Groundium-Z to bypass that problem at least for a turn. But as Worldie said, there are several things that may be improved or reviewed.
Yeah, this is also true. I was thinking that wasting turn to use protect just because of EQ is quite terrible tactic but I ended up trying it anyway. I do have one battle-ready Latios so I guess I could try that. Oh, well going to check what else is available.
 
Okay so this actually explains a lots of things. :D I've been thinking too much about specialized teams that require a setup. I had quite nice streaks in the past with Battle Subway with using Skill Link Cloyster so that was one of the reasons I was trying it again.
The thing is, that's something that works in singles. If you check the leaderboard, almost all successful singles teams are either stall teams, or "cripple a lead to guarantee safe setup for 1v3".

But due to doubles featuring spread moves, significantly more field conditions, as well as having 2 active enemy pokemon so higher chance of subsitutes or sashes being istantly broken, it's just not realistic to pull that off in doubles.

You can check the leaderboard to look for some other easier options. If you're just looking to hit 50 and be done with it, you should check some of the most hyperaggressive comps (cough cough PheroLele or KangaKoko compositions), while they're not failsafe and more prone to RNG / errors in longer streaks, they're significantly easier to execute in short amounts of battles.
 
Oh well at least I can attempt to use those for singles. I just lost my 17 streak again because my team was slower... I actually didn't know Mega Garchomp loses 10% of it's base speed when mega-evolving it. -.- Oh well, wasted 64 BP when I could've bought stone for Gengar or Salamence or something.

Yeah, going to check leaderboard teams for now. I can try my own mixes when I got more experience.
 
Oh well at least I can attempt to use those for singles. I just lost my 17 streak again because my team was slower... I actually didn't know Mega Garchomp loses 10% of it's base speed when mega-evolving it. -.- Oh well, wasted 64 BP when I could've bought stone for Gengar or Salamence or something.

Yeah, going to check leaderboard teams for now. I can try my own mixes when I got more experience.
You can consider trying out some of the QR codes that the various people shared
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ion-and-records.3587215/page-118#post-7584899

would allow you both to farm some BPs and try out some playstyles before investing time in buying your own items / breeding your own pokemon :)
 

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