Resource Monotype USM Viability Rankings

Nidoking makes 50/50's in a different way than Salazzle does. Nothing on Steel except Heatran wants to take the Flamethrower from Salazzle and Heatran gets hit with Toxic on the Switch in, putting their only fire immunity on a timer. This is a simple case of Hyper Offense Vs Stall. Nidoking destroys Steel with raw coverage and offensives, Salazzle picks at Steel's newfound weakness in Toxic+Fire STAB, something you couldn't do otherwise. I'm not trying to knock Nidoking's Viability, I accept it is A tier for many of the reasons you suggest. However I can point to Salazzle and say it performs a similar role against Steel and Poison mirrors that Nidoking does, both of which are extremely annoying matchups for Poison as a whole.

Secondly, since when does Nidoking beat Choice Scarf Excadrill besides a switch in? Since when does it beat Z Happy Hour Jirachi again, besides catching it on the switch in? Both Excadrill and Jirachi are faster than Nidoking and force it out due to being able to OHKO Nidoking anyhow. Salazzle Choice locks Excadrill with Substitute/Protect forcing the appropriate switch while Nidoking lacks the speed to do anything to either one unless you are running Scarf Nidoking, and this is assuming neither one has any form of speed control (and they both do.). In fact Jirachi can set up in Nidoking's face and live the Earth Power, while with rocks its a roll in Jirachi's Favor.
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 416-492 (137.2 - 162.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Jirachi Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 312-368 (102.9 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. +1 0 HP / 0- SpD Jirachi: 281-330 (82.4 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. +1 0 HP / 0- SpD Jirachi: 281-330 (82.4 - 96.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Nihilego being the carrier of Stealth Rocks for Poison isn't a problem if you opt for something like Metronome Nihilego, which can actually take on and whittle down things like Mantine after a few Power Gems, which it cannot outpace with Roost or Scald thanks to metronomes damage boosting effect over multiple uses and chipping Celesteela isnt strictly a hard thing to do with careful play. Gliscor barely takes HP Ice as it stands and 2-3 power gems are all you need to get it into KO range if you attempt to switch it into the attack. Even if you decide to throw Mantine away for a scald unless a burn occurs Dragonite cant even KO Nihilego.
Vs Mantine:
1. 176 SpA Nihilego Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Mantine: 150-176 (40.1 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
2. 176 SpA Metronome Nihilego Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Mantine: 165-194 (44.1 - 51.8%) -- not a KO
3. 176 SpA Metronome Nihilego Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Mantine: 198-233 (52.9 - 62.2%) -- not a KO
4. 176 SpA Metronome Nihilego Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Mantine: 257-303 (68.7 - 81%) -- not a KO
5. 176 SpA Metronome Nihilego Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Mantine: 360-424 (96.2 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to 1HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mantine Scald vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Nihilego: 116-138 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- 45.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Nihilego: 133-157 (35 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Vs Gliscor:
1. 176 SpA Nihilego Power Gem vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Gliscor: 133-157 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- 32.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
2. 176 SpA Metronome Nihilego Power Gem vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Gliscor: 146-173 (41.4 - 49.1%) -- not a KO
3. 176 SpA Metronome Nihilego Power Gem vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Gliscor: 175-208 (49.7 - 59%) -- not a KO
4. 176 SpA Metronome Nihilego Power Gem vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Gliscor: 227-270 (64.4 - 76.7%) -- not a KO
5. 176 SpA Metronome Nihilego Power Gem vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Gliscor: 318-378 (90.3 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to 1HKO after Poison Heal

Regarding Ground: This matchup is risky for Poison no matter which one you want to put in your 6th slot, Nidoking or Salazzle. Nidoking can break M-Steelix instantly but everyone realizes that, and won't allow you to do that. You also risk a Resttalk Earthquake on the pivot if you try to get Nidoking in while its mid-Rest. Also, for the same reason mentioned regarding Excadrill and Jirachi, are you perhaps talking about Choice Scarf Nidoking? You keep mentioning things Nidoking "threatens" but actually doesnt because it is slower than both of them again. Garchomp (even mega) outspeeds and OHKO's Nidoking as does Landorus (Either Forme). Salazzle admittedly can struggle to beat M-steelix without mindgames of Sub/Toxic/Flamethrower: 0 SpA Salazzle Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix-Mega: 158-188 (44.7 - 53.2%) -- 27.7% chance to 2HKO
but conversely M-steelix can also have bad RNG that is coupled with RestTalk sets, making it not use Earthquake when needed and allowing Salazzle to get behind a Substitute.

As for Electric: Fly-Z Zeraora is a 1 off move, If you predict it and let anything except Venusaur-M take it, you just got rid of Zeraora as a major threat.
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 314-370 (86.2 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO.
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Bounce vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

Raichu-Alola with Life Orb? Are we pretending this is "new"?? It's a sweeper, everyone and their mother has tried and used that item on Raichu-Alola at some point, and probably in most cases that was the first thing they tried. I'm sorry if this seems like an insult but I can't even take that suggestion seriously enough to form a rebuttal.

And lastly: Keep the "Tours" argument out of it, I care as much about the tours as most people do about ladder peaks at this point. It is nice to see people making new and creative sets to fight each other with but does not justify an argument in the long run. The Viability Rankings are designed for the public to learn what are good choices when designing a team, so saying something (Mon or Set) is justified solely because "it was in a tour" doesn't cut it. The public for the most part doesn't watch high level tours because they play for fun, and use this forum as a place to educate themselves to make more competitive but still fun teams.
There are so many flaws in this oh my fucking god. The tours argument is a very valid argument when making a nomination. When you keep the 'highest level of play,' out of a nomination, what are you ranking these pokemon based on? I'm sure taking the opinions of 1300 ladder heros will satisfy some of the public as evidenced by the metagame discussion thread. The VR is designed for the public, but including high level play is definitely important to help the public understand how to get to playing and building at a higher level.

Anyway, why do you think Gliscors are going to allow you to get 5 Metronome boosts off? You have to keep in mind that you are under the assumption you are playing a competent player. Ignoring all of that why do you only have 176 SPA? Bad calculations aren't exactly convincing.

Regarding Steelix, Rest talk sets don't run earthquake, I have no idea where you get your information from but 1500s on ladder aint it chief.
Regarding Zeraora, a healthy nidoking forces zera to pick when to z as it's not killing nidoking and venusaur and after a bulk up, it's gonna have it's way with poison without nido.
Regarding your jirachi psychic/epower on/with nidoking calc, that's pretty irrelevant as well. Why would jirachi take an earth power when psychic kills nidoking. If jirachi and salazzle were facing off, the steel user would just psychic (252 SpA Jirachi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 372-438 (109.4 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO) And you would be sacrificing your way to beat steel for a toxic on jirachi. My point is neither Salazzle nor Nidoking beat jirachi, so quite a useless calc.

from one of your earlier posts 'Salazzle's Corrosion allows it to Toxic the opposing Poison teams defensive core and give a massive advantage where the matchup normally would take FOREVER due to needing to whittle down with Toxapex scald burns and rocks etc.'
'taking forever' is definitely not a reason to rank up a mon. Patience is a big part of this game and unfortunately not many people have it

Fwiw I don't agree with the nom, B is fine for it. If you have any questions dm on discord, I don't really like clogging this up.



Other noms

Mantine Drop To > A (Flying). Pretty self explanatory, Excessive use of bolt beam greninja on both types has made this mon somewhat useless against a gren. Previously was used to check gren, which it fails to do so now with ebelt sets. HO flying also becoming more popular as balance flying quickly loses it's place in the meta.

Dragonite to > A considering it finds it's place on balance and HO teams and can run two very dangerous, unpredictable sets in DD and band. Does more for flying than skarm does as balance flying dies out.

Bulu drops to > A(grass) Terrain is cool for extra recovery but you're giving your opponent recover as well. Grass doesn't need the ground resist and Bulu's coverage isn't good enough to warrant S Rank. Very repetitive in some mu's and useless in others.

Armaldo Drops > A. I have spent enough time on this post but uhh being weak to water moves, not being able to get toxic spikes off safely, and the arrival of custap which gives foretress another weapon and more reason to use it, I think bug can afford to have this at A. Spin is important yes but I think it's similar to garchomp on dragon where the rocker is at A rank even though you will always carry the rocker. You'll always carry a spinner with bug so I think A is fine.

Latias rise > B on dragon cause healing wish is great. It does more for dragon than dragalage for sure, and probably more than hydregion with kommo being so popular rn.

Have a good day.
 

tier

PUPL Champion
There are so many flaws in this oh my fucking god. The tours argument is a very valid argument when making a nomination. When you keep the 'highest level of play,' out of a nomination, what are you ranking these pokemon based on? I'm sure taking the opinions of 1300 ladder heros will satisfy some of the public as evidenced by the metagame discussion thread. The VR is designed for the public, but including high level play is definitely important to help the public understand how to get to playing and building at a higher level.

Anyway, why do you think Gliscors are going to allow you to get 5 Metronome boosts off? You have to keep in mind that you are under the assumption you are playing a competent player. Ignoring all of that why do you only have 176 SPA? Bad calculations aren't exactly convincing.

Regarding Steelix, Rest talk sets don't run earthquake, I have no idea where you get your information from but 1500s on ladder aint it chief.
Regarding Zeraora, a healthy nidoking forces zera to pick when to z as it's not killing nidoking and venusaur and after a bulk up, it's gonna have it's way with poison without nido.
Regarding your jirachi psychic/epower on/with nidoking calc, that's pretty irrelevant as well. Why would jirachi take an earth power when psychic kills nidoking. If jirachi and salazzle were facing off, the steel user would just psychic (252 SpA Jirachi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 372-438 (109.4 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO) And you would be sacrificing your way to beat steel for a toxic on jirachi. My point is neither Salazzle nor Nidoking beat jirachi, so quite a useless calc.

from one of your earlier posts 'Salazzle's Corrosion allows it to Toxic the opposing Poison teams defensive core and give a massive advantage where the matchup normally would take FOREVER due to needing to whittle down with Toxapex scald burns and rocks etc.'
'taking forever' is definitely not a reason to rank up a mon. Patience is a big part of this game and unfortunately not many people have it

Fwiw I don't agree with the nom, B is fine for it. If you have any questions dm on discord, I don't really like clogging this up.



Other noms

Mantine Drop To > A (Flying). Pretty self explanatory, Excessive use of bolt beam greninja on both types has made this mon somewhat useless against a gren. Previously was used to check gren, which it fails to do so now with ebelt sets. HO flying also becoming more popular as balance flying quickly loses it's place in the meta.

Dragonite to > A considering it finds it's place on balance and HO teams and can run two very dangerous, unpredictable sets in DD and band. Does more for flying than skarm does as balance flying dies out.

Bulu drops to > A(grass) Terrain is cool for extra recovery but you're giving your opponent recover as well. Grass doesn't need the ground resist and Bulu's coverage isn't good enough to warrant S Rank. Very repetitive in some mu's and useless in others.

Armaldo Drops > A. I have spent enough time on this post but uhh being weak to water moves, not being able to get toxic spikes off safely, and the arrival of custap which gives foretress another weapon and more reason to use it, I think bug can afford to have this at A. Spin is important yes but I think it's similar to garchomp on dragon where the rocker is at A rank even though you will always carry the rocker. You'll always carry a spinner with bug so I think A is fine.

Latias rise > B on dragon cause healing wish is great. It does more for dragon than dragalage for sure, and probably more than hydregion with kommo being so popular rn.

Have a good day.
you make your argument based upon, why would this player ever let you do this. I assume you are of sound mind and would be able to predict a double, no mon anywhere in VR is an insta win they all require some ability to play at that tier. Secondly i dont think you playing being decentish at mons gives you grounds to disrerspect other players, rest talk steelix CAN in fact run eq no one said its IMPOSSIBLE, its just not a common set, he gave a proposed set and showed the ability of his mon to beat it.
"My point is neither Salazzle nor Nidoking beat jirachi, so quite a useless calc." cool cool so i can double into a muk
"why do you think Gliscors are going to allow you to get 5 Metronome boosts off?" cool im going to hit that mantine that comes out on hp ice with a thunderbolt or power gem
 

Days for Dabs

Banned deucer.
There are so many flaws in this oh my fucking god. The tours argument is a very valid argument when making a nomination. When you keep the 'highest level of play,' out of a nomination, what are you ranking these pokemon based on? I'm sure taking the opinions of 1300 ladder heros will satisfy some of the public as evidenced by the metagame discussion thread. The VR is designed for the public, but including high level play is definitely important to help the public understand how to get to playing and building at a higher level.

Anyway, why do you think Gliscors are going to allow you to get 5 Metronome boosts off? You have to keep in mind that you are under the assumption you are playing a competent player. Ignoring all of that why do you only have 176 SPA? Bad calculations aren't exactly convincing.

Regarding Steelix, Rest talk sets don't run earthquake, I have no idea where you get your information from but 1500s on ladder aint it chief.
Regarding Zeraora, a healthy nidoking forces zera to pick when to z as it's not killing nidoking and venusaur and after a bulk up, it's gonna have it's way with poison without nido.
Regarding your jirachi psychic/epower on/with nidoking calc, that's pretty irrelevant as well. Why would jirachi take an earth power when psychic kills nidoking. If jirachi and salazzle were facing off, the steel user would just psychic (252 SpA Jirachi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 372-438 (109.4 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO) And you would be sacrificing your way to beat steel for a toxic on jirachi. My point is neither Salazzle nor Nidoking beat jirachi, so quite a useless calc.

from one of your earlier posts 'Salazzle's Corrosion allows it to Toxic the opposing Poison teams defensive core and give a massive advantage where the matchup normally would take FOREVER due to needing to whittle down with Toxapex scald burns and rocks etc.'
'taking forever' is definitely not a reason to rank up a mon. Patience is a big part of this game and unfortunately not many people have it

Fwiw I don't agree with the nom, B is fine for it. If you have any questions dm on discord, I don't really like clogging this up.



Other noms

Mantine Drop To > A (Flying). Pretty self explanatory, Excessive use of bolt beam greninja on both types has made this mon somewhat useless against a gren. Previously was used to check gren, which it fails to do so now with ebelt sets. HO flying also becoming more popular as balance flying quickly loses it's place in the meta.

Dragonite to > A considering it finds it's place on balance and HO teams and can run two very dangerous, unpredictable sets in DD and band. Does more for flying than skarm does as balance flying dies out.

Bulu drops to > A(grass) Terrain is cool for extra recovery but you're giving your opponent recover as well. Grass doesn't need the ground resist and Bulu's coverage isn't good enough to warrant S Rank. Very repetitive in some mu's and useless in others.

Armaldo Drops > A. I have spent enough time on this post but uhh being weak to water moves, not being able to get toxic spikes off safely, and the arrival of custap which gives foretress another weapon and more reason to use it, I think bug can afford to have this at A. Spin is important yes but I think it's similar to garchomp on dragon where the rocker is at A rank even though you will always carry the rocker. You'll always carry a spinner with bug so I think A is fine.

Latias rise > B on dragon cause healing wish is great. It does more for dragon than dragalage for sure, and probably more than hydregion with kommo being so popular rn.

Have a good day.
I would like to steer this discussion towards a more civil cadence; I see no need for being rude to others as we discuss the game we all enjoy and I don't believe your "candor" is conducive towards rationale.

This topic has managed to veer off to a series of dubious points (most of which can be outright thrown out), the effectiveness of Metronome Nihilego being the first example. Nihilego has other sets as well, and most of them would appear to suitably challenge Flying teams. I don't think anyone disagrees with this. Would Nidoking make a better impact over Salazzle in this matchup? I would say so, but when you already have Nihilego, the focus on this matchup becomes less meaningful.

In a similar vein, focusing on Mega Steelix and whatever sets it may or may not be running seems unimportant. The Ground matchup is a case of preferring Nidoking once again. However, Pokemon such as Excadrill, Garchomp, Landorous, generally the whole lineup you might find yourself against when facing Ground as Poison can easily overwhelm; it is a losing matchup regardless.

Again as you pointed out focusing on Jirachi in the Steel matchup is irrelevant. Salazzle allows Poison to utilize its defensive core more easily (instead of relying on Nidoking's movepool to properly break through Steel) not only by spreading Toxic (and thus allowing your ability to wall your opponent to become more impactful), but also by offering Poison a unique ability to scout Excadrill among a host of others in and outside of this particular matchup.

Salazzle is amazing in the Poison mirror and certainly has the advantage over Nidoking. Nitpicking the way this point was worded doesn't serve the discussion.

I am not experienced with using Poison. I have little to contribute outside of looking at the points being made and the direction of these conversations and yet, even still, it is easy to avoid this quagmire of vitriol and uncoordinated thinking.
 
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you make your argument based upon, why would this player ever let you do this. I assume you are of sound mind and would be able to predict a double, no mon anywhere in VR is an insta win they all require some ability to play at that tier. Secondly i dont think you playing being decentish at mons gives you grounds to disrerspect other players, rest talk steelix CAN in fact run eq no one said its IMPOSSIBLE, its just not a common set, he gave a proposed set and showed the ability of his mon to beat it.
"My point is neither Salazzle nor Nidoking beat jirachi, so quite a useless calc." cool cool so i can double into a muk
"why do you think Gliscors are going to allow you to get 5 Metronome boosts off?" cool im going to hit that mantine that comes out on hp ice with a thunderbolt or power gem
Using rest talk steelix with earthquake COMPLETELY defeats the point of using steelix in the first place which is to check bulu. Heavyslam can solo fairy, eq is redundant with a ground team and is honestly quite useless. Of course it CAN run it, just like azumarill can run scald belly drum sap sipper. It's just bad and completely unviable.

cool double into muk so Jirachi gets a free z move as knock does about 30 to it and it just sweeps if it gets a couple timely flinches, which jirachi probably will get, but cool cool.

Are you telling me you're running rocks power gem tbolt hp ice nihilego? If so that is awful coverage, especially when you're saying you're running metronome, as you won't need all 3 in the flying matchup. However boosting speed makes it tough to beat celesteela. I don't know why celesteela was completely ignored in the calculations, as it's the pokemon that'll come out most times on nihilego. Sure you can go salazzle but it's a pokemon that gets chipped easily, and is weak to rocks so it's probably not gonna be around for too long. Posting all 5 calculations made it seem like the opponent was roosting off damage, when if you posted a second one, we'd know gliscor could switch in but w/e

Also, nowhere in my last post did I disrespect other people's playing ability but now that we're on that you reek of incompetence.



I would like to steer this discussion towards a more civil cadence; I see no need for being rude to others as we discuss the game we all enjoy and I don't believe your "candor" is conducive towards rationale.

This topic has managed to veer off to a series of dubious points (most of which can be outright thrown out), the effectiveness of Metronome Nihilego being the first example. Nihilego has other sets as well, and most of them would appear to suitably challenge Flying teams. I don't think anyone disagrees with this. Would Nidoking make a better impact over Salazzle in this matchup? I would say so, but when you already have Nihilego, the focus on this matchup becomes less meaningful.

In a similar vein, focusing on Mega Steelix and whatever sets it may or may not be running seems unimportant. The Ground matchup is a case of preferring Nidoking once again. However, Pokemon such as Excadrill, Garchomp, Landorous, generally the whole lineup you might find yourself against when facing Ground as Poison can easily overwhelm; it is a losing matchup regardless.

Again as you pointed out focusing on Jirachi in the Steel matchup is irrelevant. Salazzle allows Poison to utilize its defensive core more easily (instead of relying on Nidoking's movepool to properly break through Steel) not only by spreading Toxic (and thus allowing your ability to wall your opponent more impactful), but also offering Poison a unique ability to scout Excadrill among a host of others in and outside of this particular matchup.

Salazzle is amazing in the Poison mirror and certainly has the advantage over Nidoking. Nitpicking the way this point was worded doesn't serve the discussion.

I am not experienced with using Poison. I have little to contribute outside of looking at the points being made and the direction of these conversations and yet, even still, it is easy to avoid this quagmire of vitriol and uncoordinated thinking.
I disagree, When certain sets are used to support the nom of another pokemon on the same team to check potential threats, you must look at the validity of them. I also only wrote one line about the wrong use of steelix.

Anyway, I don't disagree, nowhere did I say salazzle isn't good in the poison MU, but with nidoking the tools are there to outplay another poison team. The post implied something else entirely. I also didn't reply directly to the points made from the first salazzle nom, but the discussion that followed, so yes, I was off topic from salazzle, but it wasn't my main intention to begin with. I simply addressed some of the weaker points of argument.
Discord if anything else, please.
 
deci gif.gifDecidueye: C --> B Rank (Grass) deci gif.gif
As I assume most, if not all people looking at this know, Grass Monotype generally tends to run the same 5 Pokemon (Mega Venusaur, Tapu Bulu, Ferrothorn, Cradily, and Breloom) with a wild card thrown in to round out the team. After a large sample of games testing out these wild card options, including Rotom-Mow, Celebi, Whimsicott (which I believe should move up for Grass as well, but that's for a different time), and Serperior, I have found Decidueye to be the one I enjoy the most. Obviously, this forum is not about posting mons we simply enjoy to use to rise, so here is my case for Decidueye moving up in the VR for Grass.

First off, using Decidueye turns a number of hard matchups for Grass into 50/50s or better. Most noticeably, Decidueye's STAB ghost attacks allow it to claim a kill virtually every time it comes in on a Psychic team, with the exception of Meloetta. Even better, given a spread of 172 speed, 84 HP, and 252 attack and an Adamant nature (shoutouts to Acey - Danse Macabre for this goat spread), it can outspeed -1 base 100s, opening the door to revenge kill banded Victini (a massive threat to Grass) after a V-Create has been used or claim a kill as Victini switches out. Additionally, Decidueye can possibly revenge kill other base 100s such as Mew, Celebi, or Jirachi that might have been hit with a Rock Tomb from Breloom or Cradily earlier. Decidueye's signature move, Spirit Shackle, works excellently in conjunction with moves such as Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch, ensuring it can safely trap and kill its target should it survive Spirit Shackle on the switch. Access to Swords Dance can turn it into a possible sweeper against Psychic. Given that Psychic is a matchup that normally dominates Grass due to Mega Gallade's ability to break Grass's defensive core, having Decidueye to put pressure on the opponent in this matchup is invaluable.

252+ Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 378-446 (110.8 - 130.7%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Shadow Sneak vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%)
252 Atk Gallade-Mega Knock Off vs. 84 HP / 4 Def Decidueye: 214-254 (67.2 - 79.8%) (This assumes Decidueye is holding a Z Crystal)
252+ Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gallade-Mega: 260-308 (93.8 - 111.1%)
252 SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 252-297 (79.2 - 93.3%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 564-666 (165.3 - 195.3%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%)
+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%)

The second 50/50 matchup Decidueye helps greatly in is mirror Grass, which too often turns into a "whose Venu will win" war. Decidueye's ability to trap mons such as Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, and Cradily can help immensely for your own Venusaur to break their team later, and its hidden ability Long Reach ensures it doesn't take Iron Barbs damage from Ferrothorn. Additionally, Decidueye can successfully 1v1 Tapu Bulu if running Brave Bird, OHKOing Bulu after recoil from Wood Hammer. Ideally, Decidueye switches into Venusaur on a Synthesis and traps it, sets a Swords Dance up, and blows it away with Decidium Z or a move such as Brave Bird. Even if Decidueye is severely weakened in the process of killing Venusaur, it's worth the tradeoff because now your own Venusaur can wreak havoc and Decidueye could potentially recover with Roost. Decidueye can allow you to avoid the dreaded Venusaur war, and give an important edge in one of Monotype's most slow and annoying matchups.

+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 352-415 (96.9 - 114.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 252 HP / 68+ Def Ferrothorn: 384-453 (109 - 128.6%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 224-264 (79.7 - 93.9%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 289-342 (76.8 - 90.9%)

Next, Decidueye helps greatly in the Ghost matchup, for all the same reasons that it helps versus Psychic. Essentially, it can revenge kill nearly all of Ghost's threats with the exception of Sableye-Mega, which can be killed by a Z move if chipped. Due to the general frailty of Ghost teams, Decidueye just has a field day in this matchup, especially if Stealth Rocks are up. Admittedly, Ghost isn't seen all that often, but it's nice to know it's a matchup that Grass should win if using Decidueye.

252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 248 HP / 104 Def Sableye-Mega: 213-252 (70.2 - 83.1%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 188-224 (72 - 85.8%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Golurk: 338-402 (105.6 - 125.6%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 378-446 (93.5 - 110.3%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 210-248 (85 - 100.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Another matchup that Grass benefits from the use of Decidueye is Poison. Poison's notoriously fat core of Mega Venusuar, Toxapex, Crobat, Alolan Muk, and sometimes even Amoonguss can be an absolute pain for Grass to deal with. Decidueye can trap and finish off three of these mons without too much trouble: Venusaur, Amoonguss, and Toxapex. Nothing on Poison besides Muk-Alola appreciates switching into a STAB base 80 trapping move, especially if Decidueye manages to get a Swords Dance off. Decidueye's access to Roost can provide important longevity and allow it to tear holes through Poison if played well with a little bit of help from entry hazard chip.

+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 354-417 (97.2 - 114.5%)
+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 300-354 (98.6 - 116.4%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 357-420 (82.8 - 97.4%)

Finally, the last specific matchup I want to highlight is Steel. Steel is notoriously difficult for Grass to deal with, as Heatran, Celesteela, and Mega Scizor combine to make a formidable trio versus Grass. Once again, Decidueye is a boon in this matchup because it can 1v1 most Celesteela sets and block Excadrill's Rapid Spin to keep the hazards that Grass so desperately needs in this matchup. By setting up a Swords Dance on Celesteela, Decidueye can turn the tides of a battle very quickly versus Steel, as I will highlight in a replay below. Decidueye can also outspeed and do a large chunk of damage to defensive Heatran if needed, and can take unboosted Mega Scizor's attacks without too much difficulty. It's ability to snowball and possibly take out multiple threats on Steel such as Celesteela, Mega Scizor, Heatran, Ferrothorn, and even Excadrill make this matchup winnable despite being a tough one to begin with.

+2 0 Atk Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 156-184 (49 - 57.8%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 248 HP / 48 Def Scizor-Mega: 204-240 (59.4 - 69.9%)
+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 248 HP / 48 Def Scizor-Mega: 406-478 (118.3 - 139.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 48 Def Scizor-Mega: 91-108 (26.5 - 31.4%)
0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 165-195 (51.8 - 61.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Celesteela: 429-505 (107.7 - 126.8%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 268-316 (69.4 - 81.8%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Ferrothorn: 211-249 (59.9 - 70.7%)
+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Ferrothorn: 421-496 (119.6 - 140.9%)

There is one matchup with a certain Pokemon I want to highlight: Kommo-o. Kommo-o is always a threat to Grass teams, but Decidueye can very nearly 1v1 it, surviving a Clangorous Soulblaze and chunking it back with its own Z move, allowing Tapu Bulu or Mega Venusaur or Breloom to finish the job.

Special Kommo-o on Fighting and Dragon:
252 SpA Kommo-o Clangorous Soulblaze vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 252-297 (79.2 - 93.3%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 232-274 (79.7 - 94.1%)
252+ Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 156-184 (53.6 - 63.2%)

Dragon Dance on Dragon:
0 SpA Kommo-o Clangorous Soulblaze vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 199-235 (62.5 - 73.8%)

In addition to providing great value in difficult matchups for Grass, Decidueye can also act as a spin blocker versus types where keeping hazards up can be vital, such as vs Sandslash/Avalugg on Ice, Torkoal on Fire, Excadrill on Ground/Steel, and Forretress/Armaldo on Bug. Grass greatly appreciates keeping its own hazards up, and Decidueye helps with that. I guess if you wanted to, you could run Defog on Decidueye; paired with its access to Roost and U-Turn, it could make a solid pivot, even though Grass doesn’t necessarily need a defogger. In Grass's neutral matchups, Decidueye can help by taking out threats with Z moves or priority, picking off weaker mons such as Alolan Raichu and Blacephalon. I will admit that Decidueye is borderline useless versus Normal and Dark, but that's part of the tradeoff. I'll take improving Psychic, Steel, Grass, Ghost, and Poison matchups to worsen my matchups versus Normal and Dark. Besides, Normal is still very much a winnable matchup for Grass, and Dark was a terrible matchup to begin with given its defensive core.

Example of Decidueye snowballing versus Electric:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-874776337

Example of Decidueye snowballing versus Steel:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-874230506

Example of Decidueye’s effectiveness vs Poison:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-857426141

Example of Decidueye’s effectivness vs Grass (both sides):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-857385710

Example of Decidueye’s effectiveness vs Psychic:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-849782876

Another example of Decidueye’s effectiveness vs Steel:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-864887937

So in conclusion, I believe that Decidueye deserves to move up from C to B based on the utility that it provides by strengthening a number of Grass's tougher matchups. While Celebi, Rotom, and Serperior may help certain matchups better (Celebi vs Poison), Decidueye improves a greater number of matchups and thus is worthy of B rank. Based on the dropoff of Rotom on Grass, I believe that Decidueye is actually a stronger choice than Rotom, especially considering that Decidueye can act as a Defog pivot with reliable recovery if desired, which Rotom cannot. Furthermore, Decidueye is a great choice to fit on Grass teams more inclined towards offense, especially given it's ability to run both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot sets. I believe that this a severely underrated option for Grass and it's time we give it the recognition it deserves.
 
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173882

Good evening distinguished panel of judges, I am here to talk to YOU about Whimsicott and why it deserves B-rank on GRASS.
UwU (Whimsicott) @ Fairium Z/ Normalium Z/ Darkium Z/Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: if u want
Happiness: 252 <3
EVs: 252 Sp Atk / 4 Sp Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Encore
- Memento/Nature Power
- Taunt/knock off/tailwind/defog/stun spore​
As shown by the wide variety of sets/moves it can run, Whimsicott's move pool combined with its ability prankster and fairy stab makes it like a swiss army knife of utility for grass, able to be tailored to help in many matchups grass struggles with such as dragon, dark, ghost, psychic, and fighting. Unlike other 6th slot mons for grass, Whims's versatility combined with its speed tier and offense can give it a role in nearly any matchup and is only limited by the choices of the player.

One of the obvious draws to whims is its fairy stab and speed tier which are both amazing in helping a slow type like grass with a defensive core weak to a number of mons that fear fairy stab. Whims's fairy typing allows it to easily pivot in on moves that can threaten grass like banded Dnight outrage or Kommo-o clangourous soulblaze and threaten those mons in a way that scarf bulu is not able to do. Whim's base 116 speed allows it to outrun a lot of mons that threaten grass's key defense core (Cradily, M-venu, Ferrothorn) such as mega gallade, LO kyurem B, and Hydreigon, all of which do not appreciate the damage from a moonblast especially if hazards are up. Stab moonblast also threatens mons that disrupt grass's playstyle such as Mandibuzz and Mega Sab. Whims has the unique role of being easily able to eliminate an array of key threats and push match ups like dragon, dark, and fighting in grass's favor. While true that whims cannot kill either Gallade or Kyurem B from full, grass's ability to set hazards or rack up chip damage through leech seed more than compensates for that along with the option of running fairium Z or life orb which both provide ohko abilities.

252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade-Mega: 252-299 (90.9 - 107.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 416-491 (138.6 - 163.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
244 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Whimsicott: 164-194 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kommo-o: 614-723 (210.9 - 248.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black: 351-413 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
52 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 283-338 (87.6 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO <- multi broken
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 265-312 (88 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 624-738 (192 - 227%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Sableye-Mega: 203-242 (66.7 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 299-354 (70.6 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 191-226 (70.4 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 140-166 (34.6 - 41%) -- 59.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers

252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 356-422 (128.5 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 588-692 (196 - 230.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black: 492-578 (125.8 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 201-237 (62.2 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 402-474 (124.4 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO <--Multi broken
252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 372-438 (123.5 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Sableye-Mega: 288-342 (94.7 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 422-498 (99.7 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 271-319 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 194-230 (48 - 56.9%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers

Another key draw to Whims is prankster encore. One of grass's biggest weaknesses is its passiveness in the face of set up sweepers. Mons like SD mega scizor, SD/bulk up mega gallade, autotomize celesteela, SD mega pinsir, Quiver Dance volcorona, Ddance charizard X, SD mimikyu, CM mega latios/latias, substitute hawlucha, etc, can all easily come in on a member of grass's defense core and start setting up to sweep mid-late game. Pivoting to whims on a setup move directly changes the flow of the game and allows for whims to kill something, switch to something else to kill or in case of zmove, or go for something like knock-off, tailwind, or stun spore on the forced switch. Whimsicott directly stops set up sweeping from occurring with priority encore and force opponents playing types with advantages like steel, fire, bug, psychic, and dragon to play around it.

Besides moonblast and encore, Whimsicott's move set is very tailorable to certain match ups. Two prominent moves are memento and nature power usually paired with darkium z and normalium z respectively. Priority z memento allows for whims to essentially neutralize a possible threat, such as victini, and fully heal one of grass's key walls or offensive threats. Z memento helps tremendously in long match ups like poison and steel where wear down of the defense core is one of the biggest threats, allowing walls like ferrothorn who lack healing outside of seed to get a second chance, alleviating the pressure from Venu and its 8 pp synthesis, renewing sash on loom, or letting bulu back in after possible wood hammer misuse. Nature power allows Whims to further assist with grass's speed deficiency, becoming a unique form of priority attacking, able to become a priority boosted energy ball under grassy terrain, and into a priority boosted bloom doom with normalium, able to revenge kill sweepers that either outspeed bulu or have already set up, like excadrill in sand or rock polish mew, and pick off threats that have already been weakened from hits, hazards, or leech seed.

252 SpA Whimsicott Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mew in Grassy Terrain: 301-355 (88.2 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Excadrill in Grassy Terrain: 427-504 (118.2 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Whimsicott Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pidgeot-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 181-213 (58.9 - 69.3%)
252 SpA Whimsicott Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini in Grassy Terrain: 225-266 (65.9 - 78%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Rocks
252 SpA Whimsicott Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon in Grassy Terrain: 183-216 (74 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes.
252 SpA Whimsicott Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black in Grassy Terrain: 183-216 (46.8 - 55.2%)--56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, 3 layers of Spikes
252 SpA Whimsicott Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Grassy Terrain: 222-262 (73 - 86.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes

From there, Whims offers a number of utility moves that can be tailored to serve a unique role on grass in a number of unfavorable match ups. Moves like stun spore and tailwind allow for grass's slower offense in the form of breloom and Bulu to outspeed threats on losing match ups like psychic and fire. Priority defog allows for grass to reset the field in matchups where it gets beaten in hazard stacking like steel (as fairum ohko bisharp) and mirror. Knock off can also work to make whims usable in matchups where it otherwise would have a very limited role like poison and steel. I will put a soft spotlight on knock-off which allows whims to serve a unique role on grass in neutralizing berry muk and metronome airslash celesteela, both of which are nearly impossible for grass to beat otherwise without spore hax. Knock off allows whims to assist in a number of matchups, namely dark, normal, and to lesser extent flying by being able to come in and threaten with moonblast/encore and knock off on the switch, removing eviolites, leftovers, toxic orbs, berries, and more.

In conclusion, While other mons are more beneficial in particular matchups (Celebi in poison, Dec in psychic, and rotom-m in bug) Whims still improves tough matchs up like dragon, dark, fighting, and normal, while also filling a unique role in stopping the prevalent threat to grass of set up sweeping. Whim's versatility and utility with prankster allow it to serve some role in nearly any match up, something that other B rank mons like rotom and celebi cannot do and is something that should be taken note of considering rotom's dropoff in usage. Whims is a great choice of fit for any grass player that is either struggling vs dragon, dark, fighting, or normal or is finding themselves commonly getting swept by staples of the meta like Gallade, kommo-o, muk, and scizor. Whims offer value equal to if not more than other B rank mons like Celebi and Rotom and should be ranked as such. Thank you and have a safe trip home.

Whim's role in dark teams
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-871554697
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-851052471
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-898960603
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-874324045
Fighting
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-871334661
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-874318918
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-848757428
Psychic
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-886689359
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-871220267
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-845473935
Dragon
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-901025647
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-833022970
Normal
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-875897482
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-866809444
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-876402128
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-788995868
Poison
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-903429613
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-832449666
Bug
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-869200863
Steel
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-847637259
Flying
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-877174269
Ground
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-852578851
Fairy
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-860504945
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-836196033
Electric
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-886245478
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-847289298
Fire
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-856663941
 
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I would like to make a nomination. Virizion from Unranked to C on Fighting.

While it seems outclassed by the more powerful Breloom, which also has Spore, Virizion has access to dual screens, which gives sweepers like CM Keldeo, Kommo-O and Mega Gallade much more breathing room to set up, and makes them harder to revenge kill. It is the only Fighting type with dual screens apart from Medicham and Gallade; the former is too slow and frail, the latter is better off as a wallbreaker / sweeper. Virizion also has Taunt to block Defog. It is a pretty small niche though, hence why I'm only nominating it for C.

Set in case you were curious
Virizion @ Light Clay
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Giga Drain
 
Hi, Drampa might look good on paper with its high Special Attack stat, good movepool, ok abilities and utility moves, but its really bad in actual battle. It has no place on balance Normal. This is because Porygon-Z and Meloetta are both better Special wallbreakers and have better Speed tiers that make them a lot more usable in the long run as Drampa will almost always take an attack before attacking because of its bad Speed stat. Furthermore, Porygon-Z helps more in Dragon, Ground- and Flying-type matchups because of its great Speed and able to omniboost. There is also Ditto for Dragon-types that can easily take care of Dragon-types bar Mega Latias or opposite happiness of Mega Altaria. Now about Drampa's abilities, while it might look appealing to use Sap Sipper for Grass-type attacks, Both Mega Pidgeot and Staraptor alongside the bulky Porygon2 helps greatly with Grass-types like Mega Venusaur and Serperior while Porygon2 can deal with Celesteela and Ferrothorn. Its other ability, Cloud Nine, is not that great either because weather in Monotype is getting rare as sandless Ground is getting more and more common, and Water sometimes uses Rain balance, but that is not common either. Even without weather both Mega Swampert and Excadrill can outpace it and 2KO it so getting rid of weather is not gonna help too much. Heliolisk is D-rank solely for dealing with Suicune, a big threat to Balance Normal that can auto-win against the team unless you use either CM sub Psyshock Meloetta (very niche and bad when Choice Specs is so much better) or Heliolisk because of its Dry Skin + able to run both Grass Knot and Thunderbolt. Drampa does not have a niche on Normal as it cannot bring anything to the table that other rank Pokemon can do better. Drampa should stay unranked.

Now for Dugtrio going down to C / D Rank I agree with. With the meta changes, Dugtrio lost its niche to take care of Tapu Bulu and trapping one the the bulky duo in Normal which is now done better by Mega Steelix. Do not really have much to add as everything has been covered in a post eariler about this Pokemon.
Sorry but I have to disagree with this strongly. You've taken the idea of a normal type team in a complete void rather than examining the current meta and the array of strong matchups Drampa has over all the other options you named. Of your options none of them function as effectively as a grass pivot, as if you're holding a chople berry you can effectively pivot into any spore/speeds grass team attack with sap sipper. Even Breloom can't fight against Drampa's array of offensive moves. Your other options for normal sap sippers are Bouffalant, Sawsbuck or Miltank, none of which are as offensively or utility-potent as Drampa. None of them can run Defog, Glare, Tailwind or Roost, and none of them have Drampa's resistances.

Now that I've laid out that Drampa is the premier Sap Sipper choice for Mono Normal, Let me lay out why you'd want a Sap Sipper on mono normal. Breloom is a huge bother to several normal teams, and if that wasn't bad enough, Venusaur's immense bulk and leech seeds make it annoyingly hard to out-pace, especially since our own main staller, Chansey, really doesn't want to share 12% of its massive HP with the opponent.
-
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Chople Berry Drampa: 102-121 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
168 SpA Drampa Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 123-145 (33.8 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
But Bulu can switch into it, right? Switch into a Draco and finish it with Superpower?
168 SpA Drampa Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 242-286 (86.1 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
No, no it can't.
-
You've drastically underestimated Drampa's bulk and drastically overestimated the alternatives. To suggest that Drampa cannot counter Suicune in the same way Helio can is absurd. Drampa's Hyper Voice hits right through Suicune's Substitute, meaning it can reliably just switch into Suicune setting up a Sub and doesn't even mind. Even at +2 Suicune's Scald fails to reliably 4HKO.
-
0 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Drampa: 42-50 (11.6 - 13.8%) -- possible 8HKO
+2 0 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Drampa: 84-99 (23.3 - 27.5%) -- 75.2% chance to 4HKO
-
168 SpA Drampa Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 127-150 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
168 SpA Drampa Hyper Voice vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 64-76 (15.8 - 18.8%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
-
With Pressure, you get 8 Hyper Voices, which means even at +2 you're going to KO Suicune. Remember, this is assuming a scenario where you switch in on the sub, so Suicune is already down 25%. The odds are easily in Drampa's favour. Outside of consistent low rolls, all you have to do is switch in and click a button to slowly whittle down Suicune's health. It's incredibly easy if you can predict when the Suicune will protect.

Cloud Nine Drampa can reliably tank Waterfalls from Swampert or Iron Heads from Banded Excadrill, in some cases switching in and going for the Glare. You say weather in monotype is getting rarer but I can't even debate this because it's such a vague and all-encompassing statement. Sandless Ground has been seeing a surge but nowhere near enough to phase out or eclipse weather teams.

Drampa isn't just good for grass teams, either. It can cause serious problems for steel and fire teams. Access to Defog means it acts as an anti-Torkoal lead and resisting both of Victini's V-Create and Bolt Strike is huge, especially when it can 2HKO it back.

I'm going to have to respectfully re-iterate my stance. Drampa: Unranked -> D.
 
Staraptor and Mega Pidgeot are already checks to Breloom. There's no need for normal to run a grass immunity. Weather sweepers are dealt with by existing components of the defensive core.

With Pressure, you get 8 Hyper Voices, which means even at +2 you're going to KO Suicune.
Why wouldn't the Water player use Calm Mind again?
 
This is assuming a scenario where the Suicune player has already used Calm Mind twice, and we've already hit them with 2 Hyper Voices. Remember, you've switched in on the sub. Even if the Suicune player Calm Minds again, it'll already be down to 10% by then assuming leftovers+recover.

EDIT: I've also given the Drampa nowhere near its maximum SpA investment, as a means to support my point that it's a better utility Mon than it is offensive (due to poor speed). But if we calculated with full 252+ SpA it's a direct 2HKO at +0 and a 4HKO at +2. You would not have the luxury of setting up several calm minds.
 
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Sorry but I have to disagree with this strongly. You've taken the idea of a normal type team in a complete void rather than examining the current meta and the array of strong matchups Drampa has over all the other options you named. Of your options none of them function as effectively as a grass pivot, as if you're holding a chople berry you can effectively pivot into any spore/speeds grass team attack with sap sipper. Even Breloom can't fight against Drampa's array of offensive moves. Your other options for normal sap sippers are Bouffalant, Sawsbuck or Miltank, none of which are as offensively or utility-potent as Drampa. None of them can run Defog, Glare, Tailwind or Roost, and none of them have Drampa's resistances.

Now that I've laid out that Drampa is the premier Sap Sipper choice for Mono Normal, Let me lay out why you'd want a Sap Sipper on mono normal. Breloom is a huge bother to several normal teams, and if that wasn't bad enough, Venusaur's immense bulk and leech seeds make it annoyingly hard to out-pace, especially since our own main staller, Chansey, really doesn't want to share 12% of its massive HP with the opponent.
-
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Chople Berry Drampa: 102-121 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
168 SpA Drampa Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 123-145 (33.8 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
But Bulu can switch into it, right? Switch into a Draco and finish it with Superpower?
168 SpA Drampa Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 242-286 (86.1 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
No, no it can't.
I'm gonna go ahead and jump in on this. Yes, Grass is a difficult matchup for most Normal teams as Breloom, Tapu Bulu, and Venusaur tend to give Normal headaches. However, the problem with using Drampa as a blanket Grass check is problematic because of the third piece of grass's defensive backbone: Cradily. Cradily just switches into Drampa without any issue and either sets rocks for chip or hits you with a toxic. As a Grass user myself, I've found the three or four mons that actually give Grass the most issue are Staraptor, Mega Pidgeot, Porygon-Z, and Diggersby. All four these mons threaten Grass by either pivoting as a defensive check to the team and clearing away hazards (Staraptor) or possess formidable wall breaking capabilities. Mega Pidgeot especially is a problem as the only switch in is Cradily, and most Mega Pidgeots run Toxic for this. In addition, Grass isn't really a type that is seen often in today's meta. The point here is that Drampa is outclassed in nearly every aspect on a Normal team by something else, even though it might be fun to use.

Bulu drops to > A(grass) Terrain is cool for extra recovery but you're giving your opponent recover as well. Grass doesn't need the ground resist and Bulu's coverage isn't good enough to warrant S Rank. Very repetitive in some mu's and useless in others.
Also a quick note on this: Bulu absolutely deserves S rank on Grass. Yes, Terrain gives recovery to the opposing side, but Grass' benefits from Terrain outweigh the benefits that the opposing team receives. Terrain recovery can restore Breloom's sash if broken by rocks, for example, and provides passive recovery for mons that greatly appreciate it, such as Venusar. Additionally, Terrain helps to solidify Bulu's role as the best Choice Scarf user Grass has to offer by boosting its Wood Hammers and Horn Leeches, allowing it to break mons it otherwise woudn't be able to. And contrary to popular belief, Grass actually DOES need a ground resist in Bulu. All three of Grass's premier defensive mons (Ferrothorn, Mega Venusar, Cradily) are hit neutrally by Ground attacks, and Breloom is too frail to take more than one attack most of the time despite its natural resistance. Without Bulu's resist and Terrain weakening Earthquake, any Swords Dance user with Earthquake would pose a bigger threat to Grass than most people would think. Additionally, Bulu's coverage is invaluable in matchups such as Dark, Steel, and Flying, in which the matchup would be much more difficult without Bulu.
 
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Diggersby is in no capacity at all a grass check. I have no clue where you came up with that. It's outsped by every common grass choice but Cradily and still struggles to beat Cradily because Earthquake is only neutral and Return is resisted. Porygon-Z needs to set up to Omniboost and it can't do that against Breloom's Mach Punch or Mega Venusaur's seeds/toxic/spores. The only actual Grass checks you named are Staraptor and Mega Pidgeot, and there's 0 reason you can't run them alongside Drampa because of Drampa's ability to run Defog thus freeing up one of their Moveslots.
 
Diggersby is in no capacity at all a grass check. I have no clue where you came up with that. It's outsped by every common grass choice but Cradily and still struggles to beat Cradily because Earthquake is only neutral and Return is resisted. Porygon-Z needs to set up to Omniboost and it can't do that against Breloom's Mach Punch or Mega Venusaur's seeds/toxic/spores. The only actual Grass checks you named are Staraptor and Mega Pidgeot, and there's 0 reason you can't run them alongside Drampa because of Drampa's ability to run Defog thus freeing up one of their Moveslots.
Diggersby with Jolly naturally outspeeds non-Scarf Tapu Bulu, Decidueye, Breloom (forces it to Mach Punch letting you bring in Staraptor without fear of Spore), most common Mega Venusaur spreads, and Ferrothorn (duh) in adittion to Cradily. Though Choice Band variants can easily by scouted with Ferrothorn’s Protect or just by using a healing move on Cradily/Venu, Swords Dance variants can be more problematic as many memebers of Grass’s defensive core lack a Grass-type attack to pressure it against setting up and threatening to KO stuff. Porygon-Z with Shadow Ball-Conversion easily sets up on Ferrothorn or Mega Venu as they never run Toxic, which usually only Cradily runs, and after setup nothing really reliably checks it at all, barring Decidueye if Porygon-Z is weakened. Drampa shouldn’t be ranked because it simply is an extremely mediocre special attacker, Mega Pidgeot is a much better anti-Grass choice, and Porygon-Z, Meloetta, and even Heliolisk have much better established niches on Normal builds.
 
Also a quick note on this: Bulu absolutely deserves S rank on Grass. Yes, Terrain gives recovery to the opposing side, but Grass' benefits from Terrain outweigh the benefits that the opposing team receives. Terrain recovery can restore Breloom's sash if broken by rocks, for example, and provides passive recovery for mons that greatly appreciate it, such as Venusar. Additionally, Terrain helps to solidify Bulu's role as the best Choice Scarf user Grass has to offer by boosting its Wood Hammers and Horn Leeches, allowing it to break mons it otherwise woudn't be able to. And contrary to popular belief, Grass actually DOES need a ground resist in Bulu. All three of Grass's premier defensive mons (Ferrothorn, Mega Venusar, Cradily) are hit neutrally by Ground attacks, and Breloom is too frail to take more than one attack most of the time despite its natural resistance. Without Bulu's resist and Terrain weakening Earthquake, any Swords Dance user with Earthquake would pose a bigger threat to Grass than most people would think. Additionally, Bulu's coverage is invaluable in matchups such as Dark, Steel, and Flying, in which the matchup would be much more difficult without Bulu.
Bulu is certainly a wonderful option for Grass, giving it speed control with scarf, providing grassy terrain, etc. But Bulu belongs at A rank, as it's not essential to every grass teams success in the same way that Mega Venusaur / Ferrothorn is. Bulu on grass is inconsistently useful, as matchups where you want to spam Wood Hammer or Horn Leech, it's likely already a free matchup, but in matchups like Flying, Poison, or Psychic, it can be consistently walled out by Celesteela, Venusaur, and Jirachi on said types, where other pokemon could do better. Not to say it's useless, A rank fits it well for a reason as the healing from Grassy Terrain, Speed Control, and Coverage + Power can grant you an advantage. Just not to the extent of Venusaur / Ferrothorn.
 
Scizor (Bug): A --> S
S Rank is the tier deserving for pokemon that our primary staples as well as highlights for a type. I have noticed a trend with the bug type that if scizor has a good match up against the type you are facing, a win is incredibly conceivable. Excluding Dark, Psychic, and Grass because the type has more than decent matchups without this pokemon, key matchups includes the Fairy Matchup, Rock ( A "Weakness") Matchup, and the Ice Matchup. With the wallbreaking potential of Mega Pinsir well known, I have used banded scizor and have had major success. Scizor remains to be a good cleaner on bug and with u-turn/pursuit coverage the momentum when this pokemon comes in on most matchups is not only incredible but a necessity when it comes to the bug type.

Please tell me your opinion on this nomination. Thank you.
 
Scizor (Bug): A --> S
S Rank is the tier deserving for pokemon that our primary staples as well as highlights for a type. I have noticed a trend with the bug type that if scizor has a good match up against the type you are facing, a win is incredibly conceivable. Excluding Dark, Psychic, and Grass because the type has more than decent matchups without this pokemon, key matchups includes the Fairy Matchup, Rock ( A "Weakness") Matchup, and the Ice Matchup. With the wallbreaking potential of Mega Pinsir well known, I have used banded scizor and have had major success. Scizor remains to be a good cleaner on bug and with u-turn/pursuit coverage the momentum when this pokemon comes in on most matchups is not only incredible but a necessity when it comes to the bug type.

Please tell me your opinion on this nomination. Thank you.
Banded Scizor does a lot for bug. It is probably the best way for bug to avoid banded Victini running 6-0 over your team, it really compliments the value of Volcarona in the Steel matchup and is usually able to shine where Volcarona doesn't do as much (Normal, Fairy, Psychic, Ice with Piloswine, ...). I think the main reason why it's ranked A over S is because of Mega-Scizor. Mega-Scizor is actually a very valuable Mega for bug. As you can see by the VR it shares spot with Mega-Pinsir. Mega-Scizor can offensively be as good as banded Scizor without being movelocked and has a great amount of extra bulk. You can for example run more defensive spreads to take 2 Stone Edges/Close Combats from Terrakion after rocks or even 2 HJK's for Mega-Lopunny and it has sets like trapper Araquanid to help with Water and Poison matchup where it is probably weaker than Mega Pinsir in a sense of wall of breaking.

I basically agree with you Scizor is S-tier and autopick on any team with M-Pinsir or M-Heracross. But the fact that M-Scizor is really good for the type means it oddly has competition with its mega variant making it not a general staple.

All though some people might feel that usage of Mega shouldn't be an argument.
 
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184782

Mega-Banette Unranked to A. Seen as underrated because of its acclaimed 4 slot syndrome. Which my response to that is that Mega-Banette has everything that it could ever need. The proposed set looking something like this...
Magic Coat. Not only is it able to catch most opponents off guard reversing hazards or status conditions to beat out tank Pokemon like Porygon-2, Torkoal using Yawn/Stealth rocks among other Pokemon. If the Pokemon decides to use an attack for a read Mega-Banette can beat it out with its second essential move
Taunt. A replacement of magic coat, while it doesn't succeed in reflecting back hazards and status back at the opponents. Taunt is useful because where magic coat Doesn't beat out moves such as recover, roost and such. Taunt has the ability to cripple all status moves, and with prankster it is bond to go first! Also giving priority and importance to Knock off where it was seen as maybe not as important before.
Destiny bond. This move helps let Mega-Banette take down at least 1 Pokemon while still letting it get out a few moves for chip. This move can pressure out a opposing Pokemon that is needed to help beat ghost and usually vital towards winning the game, and with that alone Mega-Banette is more than useful however It also helps in a few other ways, with a few moves to choose from to help along the way
Pursuit. Basically only used in order to get rid of ditto which sometimes with a Hyper Offensive team becomes necessary, Mega-Banette proving that it can adapt towards the style of the team.
Shadow Claw. To help give your opponents a hard time with Mega-Banette's base attack of 165, all the while having a chance to crit with shadow claws base power of 70, Paired up with this next move and well you got yourself a killing machine.
Shadow Sneak. Useful to finish off the opponent and help beat out a mirror match, helping beat Pokemon like Blacephalon, and Gengar both very viable threats to Mirror match Ghost. Shadow Sneak also helps to revenge kill Pokemon that are low on hp thanks to its +1 priority.
Knock Off. Best used against Pokemon With eviolite such as Chansey, or Pokemon with a Choice item, whatever the Item this move has its uses to help give you the upper hand.

These next moves are more suggestions, simply some idea's to put out there

Sunny Day.
Used to help out Blacephalon set up and even help out against some Mu's like sand ground, Ice helping beat out weather with its priority moves.
Grudge. Best paired with Blacephalon or a Pokemon that has Trick Room and requires a turn to set up. Grudge helps force out choice'd Pokemon allowing Blacephalon, Hoopa, and such.
Trick Room. For obvious reasons this can help Marowak sweep the opposing team and beat out slower Pokemon keeping Destiny Bond up
Gunk Shot. This move can be paired up with Trick room to bring devastation to any fairy team once Klefki is gone, especially since the usage of Mimikyu has gone done because of Ghost's lack of usage in Tournament, On the other hand it has a chance to poison the opponent Helping only furthermore.

Replays. Ghost=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-909199887, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908615616
Fire=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-909202907, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908002989
Flying=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-909194362, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908733409
Rock=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908747105, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-906908766
Normal=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908741862
Ground=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908741679, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908735235
Dragon=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908621431, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-917109663
Bug=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908618764, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908073638
Fairy=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908611523, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-907932981, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-907634567, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-906975434
Poison=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-918920595
Grass=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908609384
Water=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908598846
Dark=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908076981, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-906972689
Electric=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908069063
Steel=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908013957
Psychic=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908001227

Ps By no means do I intend to argue with those who are Immature, Please be considerate when Replying. I would also like to apologize for my previous actions, Also I am just going to post it here because I think It fits better seeing as how it is about the Viability of Mega-Banette
 
184782

Mega-Banette Unranked to A. Seen as underrated because of its acclaimed 4 slot syndrome. Which my response to that is that Mega-Banette has everything that it could ever need. The proposed set looking something like this...
Magic Coat. Not only is it able to catch most opponents off guard reversing hazards or status conditions to beat out tank Pokemon like Porygon-2, Torkoal using Yawn/Stealth rocks among other Pokemon. If the Pokemon decides to use an attack for a read Mega-Banette can beat it out with its second essential move
Taunt. A replacement of magic coat, while it doesn't succeed in reflecting back hazards and status back at the opponents. Taunt is useful because where magic coat Doesn't beat out moves such as recover, roost and such. Taunt has the ability to cripple all status moves, and with prankster it is bond to go first! Also giving priority and importance to Knock off where it was seen as maybe not as important before.
Destiny bond. This move helps let Mega-Banette take down at least 1 Pokemon while still letting it get out a few moves for chip. This move can pressure out a opposing Pokemon that is needed to help beat ghost and usually vital towards winning the game, and with that alone Mega-Banette is more than useful however It also helps in a few other ways, with a few moves to choose from to help along the way
Pursuit. Basically only used in order to get rid of ditto which sometimes with a Hyper Offensive team becomes necessary, Mega-Banette proving that it can adapt towards the style of the team.
Shadow Claw. To help give your opponents a hard time with Mega-Banette's base attack of 165, all the while having a chance to crit with shadow claws base power of 70, Paired up with this next move and well you got yourself a killing machine.
Shadow Sneak. Useful to finish off the opponent and help beat out a mirror match, helping beat Pokemon like Blacephalon, and Gengar both very viable threats to Mirror match Ghost. Shadow Sneak also helps to revenge kill Pokemon that are low on hp thanks to its +1 priority.
Knock Off. Best used against Pokemon With eviolite such as Chansey, or Pokemon with a Choice item, whatever the Item this move has its uses to help give you the upper hand.

These next moves are more suggestions, simply some idea's to put out there

Sunny Day.
Used to help out Blacephalon set up and even help out against some Mu's like sand ground, Ice helping beat out weather with its priority moves.
Grudge. Best paired with Blacephalon or a Pokemon that has Trick Room and requires a turn to set up. Grudge helps force out choice'd Pokemon allowing Blacephalon, Hoopa, and such.
Trick Room. For obvious reasons this can help Marowak sweep the opposing team and beat out slower Pokemon keeping Destiny Bond up
Gunk Shot. This move can be paired up with Trick room to bring devastation to any fairy team once Klefki is gone, especially since the usage of Mimikyu has gone done because of Ghost's lack of usage in Tournament, On the other hand it has a chance to poison the opponent Helping only furthermore.

Replays. Ghost=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-909199887, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908615616
Fire=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-909202907, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908002989
Flying=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-909194362, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908733409
Rock=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908747105, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-906908766
Normal=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908741862
Ground=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908741679, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908735235
Dragon=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908621431, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-917109663
Bug=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908618764, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908073638
Fairy=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908611523, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-907932981, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-907634567, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-906975434
Poison=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-918920595
Grass=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908609384
Water=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908598846
Dark=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908076981, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-906972689
Electric=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908069063
Steel=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908013957
Psychic=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908001227

Ps By no means do I intend to argue with those who are Immature, Please be considerate when Replying. I would also like to apologize for my previous actions, Also I am just going to post it here because I think It fits better seeing as how it is about the Viability of Mega-Banette
Hello!

First of all, thank you very much for your suggestions! They're all interesting and make Mega Banette quite appealing, especially the Grudge and Trick Room set.
However, in order for your post to be more convincing, it may help to structure your ideas. Rather than listing off all the sets Banette could run, why not mentioning which role it fills? The kind of role it fills, is it really necessary for a team? And if so, where would it work and where wouldn't it work?
Then, you could try explaining how it stands in relation to other Ghost Pkm. Does Mega Banette have a unique role in a team or can other Ghost Pkm do similar things? Why would it be better to use the former?
After that, you could start describing Mega Banette's flaws and make a convincing argument for how despite its flaws, it should be ranked to A.
Also consider which are Mega Banette's worst and best match-ups.

On a personal note, I would say at best it's a B rank because Mega Banette has rather small, but unique niches, some of which are already shared by Mega Sableye, which too can bounce back status moves or has access to Knock Off. Furthermore, Mega Sablye boasts a better defensive typing and can rely on Recover, which would make it more fitting for balanced teams, whereas Mega Banette is more prone to damage and would find its home rather in an offensive orientated team.
While Mega Banette does have the potential to threaten opposing Pkm with its unpredictable moves - will it use Trick Room, Destiny Bond, Taunt, Will o Wisp etc? -, they're not always reliable. First of all, Dark type Pkm are immune to Prankster status moves and resists Mega Banette's usual Ghost and Dark moves such as Shadow Claw and Knock Off. Second, if your opponent doesn't have a Dark Pkm, they can use a Status move like Toxic or switch out if they fear Destiny Bond. Toxic is in particular a very effective way to deal with Mega Banette as your opponent can simply switch out their Pkm and stall you.
However, if you want to look at Mega Banette from a different perspective - say, it's a reliable Trick Room setter -, then it is your best friend as you will almost always be able to set up Trick Room. If you use Destiny Bond in front of a Pkm your opponent does not want to loose, you may then start using Trick Room. So, if you were to build a full or semi Trick Room team, Mega Banette is probably your best friend; after all, it also has a high attack stat.
Third, Mega Banette's role as a Trapper is very niche, and not a very effective one at that. If Ditto imitates Mimikyu, what's stopping it from using a boosted Shadow Sneak? Moreover, Mega Banette must be safely brought in in order for Pursuit to be effective or you have to sack a Pkm, especially since most Ghost Pkm are weak to Ghost moves. Plus, Ditto's HP and the Pkm it copies should be in range of Shadow Sneak in order for Pursuit to be effective as, otherwise, they could just stay in and attack you. If a team desperately needs a Trapper, Assault Vest Spiritomb might be a better alternative as it can shrug off most moves from Ghost Pkm/Ditto, unless it's Mimikyu.
Fourth, preventing the opponent from setting up or healing through priority Taunt is nice, but I think that's not strongly needed in a Ghost team; you already have Mimikyu, which can shrug off any moves the first time and threatens back. Plus, it's able to set up with Swords Dance, so defensive Pkm are at risks if they use healing moves.
Since Mega Banette's niches are rather small and situational, I would place it rather on D. Ghost Trick Room teams aren't very common - it's not something you have to bear in mind when building a team, in my opinion - , and allowing your team members to set up through the help of Grudge isn't always reliable. A similar case can be made for Destiny Bond. It is one of Mega Banette's most known moves, which is why players can play around it; it's the same with Froslass, Everyone knows what it does, so they play carefully around it. However, Froslass can use this chance to lay Spikes, which hurts any grounded, non Magic Guard Pkm and forces the opponent to remove it, while the threat of Mega Banette's Knock Off/Destiny Bond/Will o Wisp/Trick Room can be dealt with depending on the teams.

TLDR:
- low bulk
- too situational and small niches
- some overlapping niches with Mega Sableye who has a better defensive typing.

+ prevents opponent from using set up moves through the use of Taunt
+ threatens with Destiny Bond
+ good at setting up Trick Room
-> however, some of the positive aspects such as Destiny Bond and Trick Room are situational and thus, not always reliable/effective.
-> plus, instead of relying on priority Taunt, you can use Mimikyu to shrug off any move and threaten back with boosted moves
Were I to rank Mega Banette, I'd put it on D. However, this is just my opinion.
 

Vid

Our life is what our thoughts make it
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184782

Mega-Banette Unranked to A. Seen as underrated because of its acclaimed 4 slot syndrome. Which my response to that is that Mega-Banette has everything that it could ever need. The proposed set looking something like this...
Magic Coat. Not only is it able to catch most opponents off guard reversing hazards or status conditions to beat out tank Pokemon like Porygon-2, Torkoal using Yawn/Stealth rocks among other Pokemon. If the Pokemon decides to use an attack for a read Mega-Banette can beat it out with its second essential move
Taunt. A replacement of magic coat, while it doesn't succeed in reflecting back hazards and status back at the opponents. Taunt is useful because where magic coat Doesn't beat out moves such as recover, roost and such. Taunt has the ability to cripple all status moves, and with prankster it is bond to go first! Also giving priority and importance to Knock off where it was seen as maybe not as important before.
Destiny bond. This move helps let Mega-Banette take down at least 1 Pokemon while still letting it get out a few moves for chip. This move can pressure out a opposing Pokemon that is needed to help beat ghost and usually vital towards winning the game, and with that alone Mega-Banette is more than useful however It also helps in a few other ways, with a few moves to choose from to help along the way
Pursuit. Basically only used in order to get rid of ditto which sometimes with a Hyper Offensive team becomes necessary, Mega-Banette proving that it can adapt towards the style of the team.
Shadow Claw. To help give your opponents a hard time with Mega-Banette's base attack of 165, all the while having a chance to crit with shadow claws base power of 70, Paired up with this next move and well you got yourself a killing machine.
Shadow Sneak. Useful to finish off the opponent and help beat out a mirror match, helping beat Pokemon like Blacephalon, and Gengar both very viable threats to Mirror match Ghost. Shadow Sneak also helps to revenge kill Pokemon that are low on hp thanks to its +1 priority.
Knock Off. Best used against Pokemon With eviolite such as Chansey, or Pokemon with a Choice item, whatever the Item this move has its uses to help give you the upper hand.

These next moves are more suggestions, simply some idea's to put out there

Sunny Day.
Used to help out Blacephalon set up and even help out against some Mu's like sand ground, Ice helping beat out weather with its priority moves.
Grudge. Best paired with Blacephalon or a Pokemon that has Trick Room and requires a turn to set up. Grudge helps force out choice'd Pokemon allowing Blacephalon, Hoopa, and such.
Trick Room. For obvious reasons this can help Marowak sweep the opposing team and beat out slower Pokemon keeping Destiny Bond up
Gunk Shot. This move can be paired up with Trick room to bring devastation to any fairy team once Klefki is gone, especially since the usage of Mimikyu has gone done because of Ghost's lack of usage in Tournament, On the other hand it has a chance to poison the opponent Helping only furthermore.

Replays. Ghost=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-909199887, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908615616
Fire=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-909202907, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908002989
Flying=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-909194362, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908733409
Rock=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908747105, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-906908766
Normal=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908741862
Ground=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908741679, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908735235
Dragon=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908621431, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-917109663
Bug=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908618764, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908073638
Fairy=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908611523, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-907932981, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-907634567, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-906975434
Poison=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-918920595
Grass=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908609384
Water=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908598846
Dark=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908076981, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-906972689
Electric=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908069063
Steel=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908013957
Psychic=https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-908001227

Ps By no means do I intend to argue with those who are Immature, Please be considerate when Replying. I would also like to apologize for my previous actions, Also I am just going to post it here because I think It fits better seeing as how it is about the Viability of Mega-Banette
While Mega Banette may seem like a good Pokemon on paper it is not A ranked Pokemon at all. Being A rank implies I can put Mega Banette on any Ghost team or implies it is integral to the most common playstyle which it is not. Looking at the A ranks all of them provide something to a standard balanced ghost team unlike Mega Banette which only fits on Trick Room which is still arguably outclassed by Mega Sableye on Trick Room Ghost. If I use Mega Banette it is implying that it is just a touch worse than Mega Sableye on Ghost teams which just isn't true. Mega Sableye provides a dark neutrality and is a great general utility Pokemon while Mega Banette does not provide the same level of defensive utility.

I understand saying that Mega Banette is usable in metagame, but usable and viable are two different things. For example Chandelure is usable on Ghost but it isn't ranked because it is outclassed by Blacephalon in almost every way. The above post seems to argue that Mega Banette is usable not viable.

Looking at the move suggestions there are some that just don't make sense; For example Sunny Day should never be used especially since permanent weather isn't a thing. Mega Banette is giving up a valuable moveslot to help against one matchup this just doesn't make sense. Trick Room teams do not use Mega Banette because there are many other superior Trick Room setters namely Mimikyu this is on top of giving up the valuable utility that Mega Sableye provides. I could go on and on but it would be a bit redundant.

The nomination seems to be heavily based on personal experience rather than looking at how one would fit Mega Banette on a Ghost team. One major red flag is that I have to build a specific sub-style, Trick Room, to use Mega Banette. On top of that, it still has a high opportunity cost since Mega Sableye is the superior mega evolution on Trick Room Ghost so why would I use Mega Banette outside of Destiny Bond which Gengar can do on top of providing speed control.

Feel free to pm on PS (Vid) or Discord (Vid#6107) if you want a more in-depth reasoning since I did not want to flood the thread with multiple long paragraphs.

Also I have the VR update done I will post it within the next couple days
 
186663
Mega-Banette Unranked to A.
Mega-Banette Takes Advantage of Many Teams Thanks to its Decent Bulk being able to Threaten out The Majority of lead Pokemon Thanks to Taunt/Magic Coat While Forcing out other Leads Thanks to Destiny Bond. Mega-Banette doesn't Work Quite as well Against Dark Monotype Teams, However Despite It not Being Able to Effectively Get off Damage, It still Threatens out Most of The Pokemon With Knock Off and Destiny Bond, Some Examples Being That Scarfed Greninja Doesn't want to lose Its Speed Control, Nor Recycle Alola-Muk Its Berry, While Threatening Everything Else with Destiny Bond. Mega-Sableye Being The only Switch In, Which Given Mega-Banette's Base Attack, Mega-Sableye can Sometimes be Forced to Switch out on a Shadow Claw Crit.
(252+ Atk Banette-Mega Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Sableye-Mega on a critical hit: 186-220 (61.3 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
(252+ Atk Banette-Mega Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Sableye-Mega on a critical hit: 153-181 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
Mega-Banette also Doesn't Find itself In a Nice Place when Facing Normal Due to its Main Attack Shadow Claw not Affecting Normal Types, Yet Mega-Banette Threatens out a Vast Majority of The Pokemon Because of Destiny Bond and Taunt. Some Examples Being Mega-Lopunny, Diggersby, Ditto, Staraptor and Porygon-Z are all Threatened by Destiny Bond. Chansey, Porygon-2 on The Other Hand are Threatened by Taunt and Knock off, Which Ditto, Diggersby and Scarf Staraptor can't Afford to Switch out on.
So As you can see, Despite all of These Disadvantages Mega-Banette Can Help In almost Any Situation

Mega-Banette Shines against Most Wall's Being able to Threaten Them out by Preventing Them from Recovering with Taunt, While Racking Tons of Damage on Them with Its Base Attack of 160 Stab Shadow Claw, While being able to Threaten most Switch Ins with Knock off. Teams based around Stall find Themselves quite Threatened by Mega-Banette and Don't want to Lose a Core Stall Pokemon To Destiny Bond, yet are Pressured to Because of Taunt and Its Incredible Base Attack.

Is Mega-Banette Unique? Well Looking deep into It some Pokemon Share a few Similar Things with Mega-Banette such as Mega-Sableye having Knock Off, However Only Mega-Banette can Pressure out More Wall Based Pokemon While always Being able to Take One Pokemon With it Thanks to Destiny Bond. Mega-Sableye Prefers a More Balanced Stall like Team and Doesn't Function as well Without It. Where as Mega-Banette Prefers more of an Offensively Balanced Team. Not only Is Mega-Banette different Than Mega-Sableye but No Pokemon can do Mega-Banette's Job nearly as well, and While Destiny Bond on Mega-Banette is Quite Common It can still Surprise you more Than you know.

Where does it stand compared to other Pokemon. Compared to other Pokemon Mega-Banette Excels, However Every Pokemon Has Its Job, Such as Mimikyu Helps with Dark Types Thanks to Its Fairy Typing but You Don't see Mimikyu Trying to Stay In on Skarmory, Toxapex, or Pokemon of Similar Nature. Mega-Banette Makes a Great Lead Pokemon Thanks to it Having Priority Taunt and Amazing Offensive Presence, Not to mention Destiny Bond. Mega-Banette is Exactly that a Mega-Pokemon and Is Worthy of That Ranking as a Stall Breaker, Priority Taunt/Suicide Lead.
 
View attachment 186663Mega-Banette Unranked to A.
Mega-Banette Takes Advantage of Many Teams Thanks to its Decent Bulk being able to Threaten out The Majority of lead Pokemon Thanks to Taunt/Magic Coat While Forcing out other Leads Thanks to Destiny Bond. Mega-Banette doesn't Work Quite as well Against Dark Monotype Teams, However Despite It not Being Able to Effectively Get off Damage, It still Threatens out Most of The Pokemon With Knock Off and Destiny Bond, Some Examples Being That Scarfed Greninja Doesn't want to lose Its Speed Control, Nor Recycle Alola-Muk Its Berry, While Threatening Everything Else with Destiny Bond. Mega-Sableye Being The only Switch In, Which Given Mega-Banette's Base Attack, Mega-Sableye can Sometimes be Forced to Switch out on a Shadow Claw Crit.
(252+ Atk Banette-Mega Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Sableye-Mega on a critical hit: 186-220 (61.3 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
(252+ Atk Banette-Mega Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Sableye-Mega on a critical hit: 153-181 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
Mega-Banette also Doesn't Find itself In a Nice Place when Facing Normal Due to its Main Attack Shadow Claw not Affecting Normal Types, Yet Mega-Banette Threatens out a Vast Majority of The Pokemon Because of Destiny Bond and Taunt. Some Examples Being Mega-Lopunny, Diggersby, Ditto, Staraptor and Porygon-Z are all Threatened by Destiny Bond. Chansey, Porygon-2 on The Other Hand are Threatened by Taunt and Knock off, Which Ditto, Diggersby and Scarf Staraptor can't Afford to Switch out on.
So As you can see, Despite all of These Disadvantages Mega-Banette Can Help In almost Any Situation

Mega-Banette Shines against Most Wall's Being able to Threaten Them out by Preventing Them from Recovering with Taunt, While Racking Tons of Damage on Them with Its Base Attack of 160 Stab Shadow Claw, While being able to Threaten most Switch Ins with Knock off. Teams based around Stall find Themselves quite Threatened by Mega-Banette and Don't want to Lose a Core Stall Pokemon To Destiny Bond, yet are Pressured to Because of Taunt and Its Incredible Base Attack.

Is Mega-Banette Unique? Well Looking deep into It some Pokemon Share a few Similar Things with Mega-Banette such as Mega-Sableye having Knock Off, However Only Mega-Banette can Pressure out More Wall Based Pokemon While always Being able to Take One Pokemon With it Thanks to Destiny Bond. Mega-Sableye Prefers a More Balanced Stall like Team and Doesn't Function as well Without It. Where as Mega-Banette Prefers more of an Offensively Balanced Team. Not only Is Mega-Banette different Than Mega-Sableye but No Pokemon can do Mega-Banette's Job nearly as well, and While Destiny Bond on Mega-Banette is Quite Common It can still Surprise you more Than you know.

Where does it stand compared to other Pokemon. Compared to other Pokemon Mega-Banette Excels, However Every Pokemon Has Its Job, Such as Mimikyu Helps with Dark Types Thanks to Its Fairy Typing but You Don't see Mimikyu Trying to Stay In on Skarmory, Toxapex, or Pokemon of Similar Nature. Mega-Banette Makes a Great Lead Pokemon Thanks to it Having Priority Taunt and Amazing Offensive Presence, Not to mention Destiny Bond. Mega-Banette is Exactly that a Mega-Pokemon and Is Worthy of That Ranking as a Stall Breaker, Priority Taunt/Suicide Lead.
I see, you used some of my suggestions to write a more convincing argument in favour of Mega Banette as a stall breaker and/or lead Pkm.
While I commend your efforts, I have to point out some issues.
First of all, I'm going to talk about the formal aspects.
For an argument to be convincing, you don't need to constantly stress those words you have in mind; honestly, it is too much and makes your text looks like as if it can't stand on its own because of its over-reliance on a feature. Worst of all, it makes your text look immature and aggressive because it gives the overall impression that some people here are not intelligent enough to grasp the basic of your argument. Moreover, by focusing on so many words, you will have a hard time to put a finger on your text and find out or summarize the most important aspects of the argumentation.
I'm sure this was not your intention, which is why I'd strongly suggest to avoid it.

Next, as Vid has already pointed out, rank A implies a Pkm is strongly needed or an integral part of a team. Ghost teams do not need Mega Banette at all to be succesful, especially not when you already have Blacephalon as a stall breaker and Mega Sableye and Alolan Marowak as a lead who all have a common and recommended use in a team.

Second, while it is true Mega Banette can threaten out Pkm, especially with priority Destiny Bond, and force out a Pkm with Knock Off, your success is, again, too dependent on a situation. For example: Mega Lopunny, which is quite a common Pkm on Normal, can simply use Encore and/or Power-up Punch to avoid Destiny Bond, and it doesn't mind Knock Off at all since it resists it. Players can simply switch out their Pkm or use any move to avoid the effect of Destiny Bond. Then, you have Toxapex, which can simply Scald you to death and reduce your attack stat and switch to Mega Venusaur or Crobat or Mega Sharpedo if necessary.
Speaking of Mega Banette's attack stat, using a crit Shadow Claw in your argumentation is unnecessary because the crit chance isn't exactly high and many other Pkm could be used instead of Mega Banette to convince people of their offensive prowess, which doesn't prove anything at all, especially when wallbreakers such as Alolan Marowak and Blacephalon become even more dangerous if you were to include crit calculations. Besides, while Mega Banette has a high attack stat, it is offset by the fact that it doesn't really have many strong and useful moves to take advantage from it.
To give an example:
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 87-103 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 81-96 (26.6 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
There really isn't much of a difference to see between them, but it'd imply Terrakion is a more effective attacker, especially when it can still use a boosting item/boosting moves such as Swords Dance. And Close Combat does more damage to a neutral target than Mega Banette's Shadow Claw. Maybe, you would like to compare it with Gunk Shot, however, I should note that in this case Close Combat hits more target neutrally or effectively than Gunk Shot does. Plus, Gunk Shot is not a STAB move.

On another note, some lines of your argumentation are just circular reasoning, based on belief/experience, exaggerated or limited in their perspective. Therefore, we're dealing with a text based mostly on logical fallacies:

- Mega Banette's bulk isn't exactly decent, decent being somewhat a subjective perception. We can compare its bulk with Gardevoir (exlucding the special defense), which is known for its frailness. There isn't much of a difference between 64/75 and 68/65. Mega Banette is OHKOed or 2HKOed by most sweepers. Hippowdon, while not a sweeper, has a high chance to 2HKO you with Earthquake and Sandstorm chip damage although it usually doesn't have any investment into its attack:
4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 151-178 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
If Hippowdon already does that kind of damage to Mega Banette, imagine what Stealth Rock Garchomp might do, especially if it chooses to use a Z-Move. Other Pkm such as Skarmory or Ferrothorn may not be able to 2HKO you, but Mega Banette won't live long enough during a match to be useful. Ferrothorn may choose to leech seed you or power whip you because your opponent may assume a Taunt set, and Mega Banette suffers damage from its ability. This is all even more exacerbated by Stealth Rock/Spikes/Toxic. You won't have success consistently with Destiny Bond and/or Knock Off if your opponent can simply play around it. Furthermore, why should they use Greninja or Alola Muk as their switch in for Knock Off if they could just use Toxapex, Mega Venusaur, or Mega Tyrannitar?
Besides, Mega Sableye has access to Recover and a reliable ability while Mega Banette is prone to chip damage, has no reliable recovery move, and relies heavily on prediction, which is not reliable at all. Therefore, Mega Sableye outclasses Mega Banette in that aspect, even on an offensive balanced team where your teammates can fall back on its useful type combination to deal with Ghost and Dark moves.


"However Only Mega-Banette can Pressure out More Wall Based Pokemon While always Being able to Take One Pokemon With it Thanks to Destiny Bond. Mega-Sableye Prefers a More Balanced Stall like Team and Doesn't Function as well Without It. Where as Mega-Banette Prefers more of an Offensively Balanced Team. Not only Is Mega-Banette different Than Mega-Sableye but No Pokemon can do Mega-Banette's Job nearly as well, and While Destiny Bond on Mega-Banette is Quite Common It can still Surprise you more Than you know."

- again, this is all based on experience. It shouldn't be a central aspect of your argumentation, especially not when it lacks context and has no follow up explanation. Why does it matter Mega Banette prefers offensively balanced team? You should have tried to explain how well it fits and why you need it on such a team compared to other viable options. Furthermore, you won't always be able to take down one Pkm with Destiny Bond because, as I've already shown above, players have many options to deal with it and Knock Off. Also, why does it matter that, apparently, no other Pkm could do Mega Banette's job nearly as well when it is mostly outclassed by Mega Sablye and its niches are not exactly needed and rely heavily on prediction? It also comes with an opportunity cost of a mega. I could simply use Froslass to Taunt an opponent, lay Spikes, which supports your sweeping potential for your team mates, and take down an opponent with Destiny Bond while still having the option to use Mega Sableye to pressure Pkm with Knock Off and being generally hard to take down with Will o Wisp and Recover.
Last but not least, if I want to pressure "More Wall Based Pokemon", I may simply use Choice Spec Blacephalon which has a strong move in Fire Blast and a high special attack stat + a special variant of moxie. Blacephalon can also use Trick to deal with Chansey or Porygon2.


"Where does it stand compared to other Pokemon. Compared to other Pokemon Mega-Banette Excels, However Every Pokemon Has Its Job, Such as Mimikyu Helps with Dark Types Thanks to Its Fairy Typing but You Don't see Mimikyu Trying to Stay In on Skarmory, Toxapex, or Pokemon of Similar Nature."

- as already outlined, Mega Banette comes with many problems and is not necessary for a ghost team, which is why it shouldn't be ranked A. It doesn't matter whether or not every Pkm has its job. If they're outclassed or too nichey, there's no reason to put it on A. As Vid has already said, useable is not equal to viable.
 

Vid

Our life is what our thoughts make it
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
In light of recent string of posts vouching for Mega Banette Unranked--->A, Mega Banette will now be blacklisted since there has been no fruitful discussion.
If anyone posts anything about Mega Banette the post will be deleted and or infracted.
Any questions or concerns pertaining to the blacklist can be directed at me on discord or PS.
 
got bored and thought i'd post some thoughts on the current VR:
Rises:
187372
(Psychic) A Rank --> S Rank
Mega Gallade is insane, and one of the most impactful mons for the meta right now. It has a big role in the Grass, Steel, and Water matchup which are all big types and beats alolan Muk, which otherwise would basically even out the psychic v. poison game. It excels with Psychic support especially, with potential Screen support or Healing Wish support. I'd consider Psychic one of the top two types right now, and Mega Gallade is a huge part of that.
187356
(Dark) C Rank --> B Rank
Offensive dark monos have a lot of potential, and mega sharpedo is a really strong option as a good cleaner. You can count on sharpedo to do some work in pretty much any matchup, and if you're building offensive Dark, it's nice to have a mon that can comfortably 2HKO Toxapex. I like to support it with t-spikes greninja to let it build up poison damage with Protect. That being said, it does need a lot of support to get some of the OHKOs it needs, so i'd still put it on par with Mega TTar in B Rank, who is in the same boat.
187363
(Dragon) C Rank --> A or B Rank
Not sure why Latias is ranked with Dragalge in C Rank while Latios is in S rank, but to me, Latias and Latios are mostly on the same level. Healing Wish is pretty big, especially when you have Dnite. I'm cool with putting Latias lower than Latios since Scarf is a little weak, but Latias is definitely not C rank material.
187392
(Grass) C Rank --> B Rank
Honestly too lazy to read the whole Decidueye post above, but yeah, B rank is fine with Decidueye. Grass is a cool anti-meta type, and Decidueye Grass has a good matchup against Fairy and Psychic, which are the top two types to watch out for imo.
187368
(Fire) Unranked --> D Rank
[Flare Blitz | Brave Bird | Tailwind | Overheat / Defog / Filler] @Flyinium Z
Talonflame is a cool pick, it obviously needs a ton of support, but it has some really nice benefits. Flyinium Z BBird is one of the few things that can finish off a Kommo-O, BD Azu, or Scarf Keldeo/Terrakion/Greninja, and it has a really good Speed tier. It can also clutch a Tailwind to support Charizard-X if needed, which can turn a game around pretty quickly. It's faster than Diancie-M so you could theoretically even Steel Wing it, but it usually gets a Diamond Storm defense boost before you can do so.
187385
(Water) Unranked --> D Rank
[Sludge Bomb | Rapid Spin | Toxic Spikes | Knock Off / Scald]
It has a very tiny niche on Sticky Web Water which is not a popular archetype of water already, but being to use Rapid Spin on Webs water over Defog is cool, and it outspeeds Bulu and Koko under sticky webs. Fairy doesn't have much in terms of hazard prevention so that's kinda cool. Liquid Ooze shuts down Celesteela's Leech Seed which is nifty. But again, sticky web water hasn't shown much promise, so D rank.
Drops:
187358
(Water) B Rank --> C or D Rank
Water suffers from a ton of role compression, and if you're looking for your Electric immunity, (mega) Swampert is your best bet, since it is also Water's best Stealth Rock setter. Gastrodon basically leaves you to use Empoleon as your rock setter, which is a really lackluster mon too. Gastrodon is the middle-ground between Swampert and Quagsire; balanced really prefers swampert, and stall usually prefers quagsire.
187366
(Ground) A Rank --> B Rank or lower
Dugtrio is too inconsistent to be A Rank, and with Tapu Bulu running bulkier sets lately, it just keeps struggling to justify it's spot in A. I don't have much experience with this mon myself, but eh. I glanced at posts made on dugg already and all pretty much reach this same conclusion.
187371
(Fire) B Rank --> C Rank
Charizard-Y just can't break through teams like it used to, and it's hard to use it over the behemoth that is charizard-x. It's crazy easy to revenge kill or force out nowadays, which does it no favors when it's x4 SR weak on a type with a shitty rocks remover.
187383
(Psychic) B Rank --> C Rank, mayaaabe D
Mega slowbro has merit in the Ground and Fire matchup, and it even does some cool stuff against Poison by checking Muk-A, but it doesn't do much else. It's not impossible to break anymore, and Koko and Bulu are major presences in the game right now. Additionally, Psychic has poor hazard removal, which limits Slowbro. You're better off just going with Colbur Slowbro instead and running a better Mega.
187386
(Water) D Rank --> Unranked
Not sure what this is doing in the VR. Really only has Competitive going for it afaik, but it requires the Competitive boost to do any damage at all.
187387
(Electric) B Rank --> C Rank
It has competition with Zeraora, but I haven't used this enough to make a real call. Zeraora just seems so much more reliable in most matchups and doesn't need to worry about lowering Attack since it uses Close Combat instead of Superpower against Normal. Thundurus has a nice typing and Flying STAB though.
187388
(Electric) D Rank --> Unranked
It's worse Mega Manectric but it has Calm Mind and Extrasensory...? Maybe you stunt on Mega Venusaur with the one-time-use Psychium Z but that's it.
187389
(Bug) S Rank --> A Rank
Chaitanya mentioned this a few posts up and I agree. It's the best spinner and stealth rocker, but it loses to the majority of stealth rock setters. Sometimes it's forced to choose between Spinning or setting rocks. Yeah it's neutral to Flying and Fire but it's not particularly bulky. It's somewhat comparable to Torkoal in how it provides crucial support even if it's a shit mon.
 

Attachments

mew.gif

Mew (Psychic) S-->A

Mew's ranking at S is a little bit outdated in my opinion. Although it is clearly a good mon that could be considered for almost any team, I see many experienced players choosing to forgo it's spot on teams in favor of mons that help with specific matchups. It still gets high usage, being the 4th most common mon on psychic (https://www.smogon.com/stats/2019-06/monotype/gen7monotype-monopsychic-1760.txt), but it clearly doesn't belong on the same pedestal that Victini does. I think that the way that players consider mew when team building is now more similar to an A tier mon than S.
 

Attachments

Some of these have already been nommed and I just thought I'd back them up and add a few of my own so first off

188754
(Grass) C Rank --> B Rank
Ok as we've been seeing in Mpl and just ladder in general. the amount of matchups this thing turns on it's head is insane and this thing is an absolute creature on grass as of recent. between it's z move, spooky plate etc. this thing does too much not to be B rank.

188756
(Ground) A Rank --> C rank
With the rise of mega steelix as the tapu bulu check, this thing should fall to mirror that. it has lost it's place on ground teams and honestly I feel C rank might be high for it. It doesnt do enough for it's type and is just not worth taking over one of the other pokemon ground has.

188757
(Water) D Rank --> Unranked
I agree this thing has no place here. there is honestly 0 reason to put this onto a water team over something else unless it is EXTREMELY niche.

188758
(Dragon) C Rank --> B Rank
I Understand the reason this is so much lower than latios is because it makes it so you cant use Mega-Latias. but this thing having access to scarf healing wish by itself is something dragon loves with dragonite+sash garchomp etc and that gives it B rank In my opinion.

188759
(Bug) S Rank --> A Rank
I was shown the light. after the VRs were explained to me one of the first mons I thought was wrong was armaldo. this thing is kinda needed on bug sure. but that doesnt change the fact that this mon is trash. it's forced onto teams because it spins and has rocks but it does all of it's jobs awfully. I honestly think foretress is probably just better than armaldo. but Either way this shouldnt be S rank.

188760
(Fairy) S rank --> A/B Rank
This thing does have a huge impact on the metagame, which is shown in the amount of speedcreeping that goes on involving this pokemon, but due to the fact that every team speedcreeps this mon it doesnt do the job it used to. it's still a great mon but by Idt it deserves S rank.

188761
(Fairy) A Rank -->S Rank
Why is this thing not S rank already, band, scarf, sub sd, sub disable. this Mon is an absolute unit and wreaks havoc upon enemy pokemon. with each of it's threats being a set it's so hard for some teams to deal with. I cant imagine a fairy team with no bulu and I cant think of many types that are safe from him.

188762
(Flying) S Rank--> A/B Rank
yeah after talking to chaitanya about this I realized this mon just doesnt do it's job anymore. doesnt check greninja, it check some water threats but even then it's just not worth carrying this mon around most of the time. It's still okay to use but by god how is this S rank.

188763
(Grass) S Rank--> A Rank
Contrary to it's uses on fairy. this thing is good on grass but it isnt S rank. it's much more one dimensional and doesnt even do it's job as well as it would like due to it's coverage with the other grass mons. Great mon as always but I dont see it as S rank on grass.

188764
(Ground) C Rank--> A Rank
It solos fairy almost and that's one of the strongest types in the game, overall just a fat physical wall that's hard for ANY physical wall to break. And with it's rise in usage I dont know if it's still the C rank mon it was. big boy M-Lix.

Theres probably a few more I believe could change but I dont feel as strongly about any of them. so here's the ones I thought were more relevant.
 

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