From Untiereds to Ubers

[Alucs]

Here are my votes:
OM!’s Ariados
Jamis361’s Electivire
Neosonic97's Pikachu

 

[Jerry the great]

I really like this thread! Like honestly. Buffing untiered mons so much they can stand up to some of the strongest Pokemon of all time? I love it.

 

[Champion Leon]

I’m ending the voting now since the last vote was yesterday. I noticed a change in votes this morning (I check each vote posting to see if there are edits), and have factored that in for today’s final results.

The votes are in!

1st Place Tie Winners

Ariados - 4 votes OM!

Electivire - 4 votes Jamis361

Regice - 4 votes Jerry the great

Watchog - 4 votes money12wolf

——————

2nd Place

Pikachu - 3 votes Neosonic97

Ledian - 3 votes Jamis361

——————

3rd Place
Zangoose - 1 vote SteelixPrismGX

Pyukumuku - 1 vote Anaconja

_____________________

Congratulations to OM!! myself and Jamis361 for another 1st Place finish, and Congratulations to OM! myself for now becoming a Mega Salamence for the Hall of Fame!! A proud moment indeed!

As both of us Co-Leaders are now Mega Salamences, I am encouraging all of my fellow posters to submit ideas and graduate to the next level of the Hall of Fame! Your submissions become your legacy!

As a reminder, don’t hesitate to discuss any ideas and reactions you have in our Discord Channel.

 

[War Incarnate]

So will the 2nd and 3rd place submissions not count as wins?

 

[Champion Leon]

So will the 2nd and 3rd place submissions not count as wins?

Since Jamis361 mentioned only 3 votes this slate, and I confirmed that the number of votes equals the number of winners unless there is a tie for the lowest qualifying votes, it doesn’t make sense for us to make more than the tie win.

Previously, we had 5 votes and thus at least 5 winners (more if a tie), if we had 5 winners, then we would have to include 2nd Place since that would make it at least 5 winners (still excluding 3rd Place).

Overall, Jamis361 thought with less submissions we needed less votes per voter.

Since we have 3+ Winners Tied for 1st Place we don’t need to count 2nd Place onwards.

 

[Jerry the great]

Oh cool I won! ... No pun intended. (In case you don't get I won with an ice Mon)
But I'd just like to ask, now that voting is done, can we start submissions again?

 

[Champion Leon]

Oh cool I won! ... No pun intended. (In case you don't get I won with an ice Mon)
But I'd just like to ask, now that voting is done, can we start submissions again?

I am glad your openness to feedback allowed my suggestions. ;)

Sure I’ll open the slate submissions from now thru Friday. Slate 6 is now open!

 

[Jerry the great]

Alright! This time I shall do TWO Pokemon! I didn't do two before because I didn't want to have to choose who was the better one so I could get the easy way out with my Mons, but here we go.
First off, this one shall have some alien like concepts as it is kinda based off an alien.
Pokemon: Beheeyem
Type: Psychic
Abilities: Levitate/Synchronize/Oblivious (HA)
Stats: 61/68/61/140/70/150/550 BST
New moves: UFO blast, Thunder
Custom move information: Psychic type/100 BP/8 PP/100% accuracy/Special
Description: No effect.
Z move information: Power maker UFO blast extreme
Z move information: 200 BP/Psychic type/ Causes all stats to be raised by one when hitting unless target is immune. Caused by getting a UFO to shoot a massive laser that will give you power when hitting. Clangorous Soulblaze clone.
Competitive niche: Makes a good glass cannon. It has massive special attack and Speed, but every other stat is horrible to make up for it. Levitate is good for just in case you are persistent to beating Primal Groudon, synchronize doesn't do much, and oblivious makes setting up nasty plot slightly easier. Furthermore, it can even get even better Special attack and Speed via it's Z move, along with getting it's defense stats becoming slightly below average instead of horrible. You can use nasty plot to double your special attack, but you must time nasty plot very carefully due to it's awful bulk. However, due to it's awful bulk, it can't really switch in vs attacks, makes it to where any attack could make it faint, and some more stuff. It'd do massive damage to Primal Groudon with the Z move, easily takes out Marshadow unless it was to switch into a ghost move, a boost from the Z move or nasty plot then Thunder would OHKO Primal Kyogre, can do serious stuff to Yveltal with thunderbolt, and more. Some bad things however, would be Yveltal switching into the Z move, or Marshadow stealing boosts from the Z move as Z moves can only be used once (how'd this happen though without sash at full HP), and some matchups would be Lugia with multiscale still up (because toxic and phasing boosts) Dusk Mane Necrozma, Xerneas that has set up Geomancy (I mean it could set it up with Beheehyem not on the field), scarf mons with good offensive prowess (before the boost anyways) and priority.
Now for the other Mon!
Pokemon: Lapras
Type: Water/Ice
Abilities: Shell Armor/Hydration/Drizzle
Stats: 80/70/90/80/90/70/ 480 BST
New moves: Shell smash, Rocket surfing
Custom move information: 80 BP/100% Accuracy/water type/Special/8 PP
Description: Goes at such a speed it makes fast and deadly waves. +1 Priority, extreme speed clone
Competive niche: Great shell smash sweeper. Has decent enough bulk, but then the bulk is kinda bad once shell smash is used, and it has decent special attack, which becomes stronger off of shell smash. It also becomes fast once shell smash is used, and Rocket Surfing is great for revenge killing. It functions well vs Yveltal, Ho-Oh, Lugia (do watch out for toxic though), Rayquaza, Mega Salamence, non taunt mega Gengar, and possibly more, but all those benefits don't make it downright scary in ubers, as it has many issues with Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon, and Dusk Mane Necrozma, three very common mons. But it's OK though because it has advantages over a lot of stuff, but struggles with those three mons. Once they are taken down though, Lapras would be very formidable. So it's better off as a late game sweeper when those 3 are down. Then it becomes pretty intense to actually defeat it. Some items I may see working are white herb or leftovers.

 

[War Incarnate]

Pokémon: Zangoose
Typing: Normal / Fighting
Abilities: Adaptability / Intimidate / Tough Claws
Stats: 80 / 150 / 80 / 60 / 80 / 120 (600 BST)
New Moves: Earthquake, Extreme Speed, Gunk Shot, Focused Swipe
Custom Move Information (if applicable): Fighting-type, Physical, 90 BP, 100% Acc, 10 PP (max: 16)
Custom Move Description (what effects it has): 30% chance to lower the target's highest attacking stat.
Competitive (niche in Ubers): Zangoose finds a safe spot amongst the hostile environment that is known as Ubers as a fast physically-based glass cannon given its decent STAB combo, great physical attack stat, and fantastic coverage moves. Its vast pool of coverage moves lets it dispose of other threats, such as Xerneas, Marshadow, Arceus, and Mega Salamence. At the same time, Zangoose's new signature move, Focused Swipe, has a chance to lower the opponent's highest attacking stat, letting it screw up setup sweepers such as Xerneas. However, Zangoose's bulk is average at best, leaving it prone to being overwhelmed by stronger and faster pokemon such as Marshadow and Simisage; this also means that if Zangoose fails to KO a foe, it risks getting KOed or heavily weakened in return, making it reliant on Focused Swipe's stat drops and significant hazard-stacking, making it hard to fit on a team.

Reserving BUFFalant and Ursaring next.

Pokémon: Bouffalant
Typing: Normal
Abilities: Adaptability / Sheer Force / Impact Absorber
Custom Ability Description (if applicable): The recoil taken from the pokemon's recoil-inducing moves are multiplied by 0.5x.
Stats: 110 / 160 / 120 / 40 / 100 / 70 (600 BST)
New Moves: Knock Off, Flare Blitz
Competitive (niche in Ubers): Bouffalant carves a niche in Ubers as a very bulky, albeit fairly slow stall and balance breaker given its god-like attack stat, on top of a speed tier good enough to outspeed most, if not all, stall and balance staples, only falling short of Lunala and all Arceus support variants, but the former cannot damage it thanks to Bouffalant's pure Normal-typing, while the latter gets 2HKOed by Adaptability-boosted Head Charge. Despite its less-than ideal speed tier for an Ubers pokemon, its bulk is good enough to survive multiple hits from many offensively-inclined teams, making it a stall and balance breaker that does not falter versus offense. Its pure Normal-typing lacks weaknesses outside of Fighting, and given Bouffalant's good bulk, lets it blanket check a good portion of the Ubers metagame. Despite this, Bouffalant's speed is unfortunately pretty bad for an Ubers pokemon, leaving it outsped by the majority of the offensively-based Ubers tier, and despite Bouffalant's good bulk, it can still fall to strong physical attackers such as Marshadow and Simisage given its lack of priority, making it somewhat matchup reliant.

Pokémon: Ursaring
Typing: Normal
Abilities: Intimidate / Adaptability / Guts
Stats: 100 / 150 / 120 / 60 / 100 / 70 (600 BST)
New Moves: None really. I mean, there's Knock Off, but Ursaring already has Crunch, so there's no point to adding it.
Competitive (niche in Ubers): Similar to Bouffalant, Ursaring's main role in Ubers is a very bulky and powerful stallbreaker that takes advantage of its okay speed tier, great bulk, and great physical attacking prowess to set up Swords Dance and then proceed to sweep entire stall and balance builds with ease. (WIP)

 

[Champion Leon]

Pokémon: Zangoose
Typing: Normal / Fighting
Abilities: Adaptability / Intimidate / Tough Claws
Stats: 90 / 150 / 90 / 60 / 90 / 120 (630 BST)
New Moves: Earthquake, Extreme Speed, Gunk Shot, Focused Swipe
Custom Move Information (if applicable): Fighting-type, Physical, 90 BP, 100% Acc, 10 PP (max: 16)
Custom Move Description (what effects it has): 30% chance to lower the target's highest attacking stat.
Competitive (niche in Ubers): Zangoose finds a safe spot amongst the hostile environment that is known as Ubers as a fast physically-based glass cannon given its decent STAB combo, great physical attack stat, and fantastic coverage moves. Its vast pool of coverage moves lets it dispose of other threats, such as Xerneas, Marshadow, Arceus, and Mega Salamence. At the same time, Zangoose's new signature move, Focused Swipe, has a chance to lower the opponent's highest attacking stat, letting it screw up setup sweepers such as Xerneas. However, Zangoose's bulk is average at best, leaving it prone to being overwhelmed by stronger and faster pokemon such as Marshadow and Simisage; this also means that if Zangoose fails to KO a foe, it risks getting KOed or heavily weakened in return, making it reliant on Focused Swipe's stat drops and significant hazard-stacking, making it hard to fit on a team.

Reserving BUFFalant and Ursaring next.

Please keep the 600 BST total in mind (ahem Zangoose).

Damn it I wanted to do Ursaring! Arrgghh!

Anyways glad you switched Zangoose, it’s typing suits it.

This name was staring me in the face and I know it will be a powerfully balanced type: Unfezant

Pokémon: Unfezant
Typing: Flying / Fighting
Abilities: Stamina / Gale Wings / Flight Risk
Flight Risk: The user’s Flying (Physical and Special) Attacks lower the foe’s Speed by 1 Stage.
Stats: 95 / 130 / 95 / 60 / 95 / 95 (570 BST)
New Moves: Acrobatics, War Feathers, Sky Uppercut
Custom Move Information (if applicable): War Feathers - Flying-type, Other (Status Move), N/A Base Power, 100% Acc, 10 PP (max: 16)
Custom Move Description (what effects it has): War Feathers - Raises the user’s Attack and Defense by 1 stage and raises the Critical hit ratio. (Bulk Up + Focus Energy).
Competitive (niche in Ubers): Unfezant gradually builds power, and possesses a smaller movepool, but it’s ability and balanced bulk make it an all-around great option for dealing notable damage and surviving neutral hits.

Extremely susceptible to the wide array of faster threats (especially Special Attackers) due to a middling Speed and numerous weaknesses (Ice, Electric, Fairy, Flying, Psychic) which are everywhere in Ubers, but it’s second and third abilities help to mitigate this, and Gale Wings poses a big threat to Pheromosa.

Has an excellent typing that removes the Stealth Rocks weaknesses, while still covering its Rock, and Steel resists with a moderately powerful Sky Uppercut.

EDIT: Made Flight Risk only impact Speed, made War Feathers balanced but unique, changed Flying Press to Sky Uppercut; adjusted Stats for more Offense.

 

[Neosonic97]

I may not have won this time, but surely with enough persistence the rodent will win out! (In case you didn't get it, I'm submitting Pikachu again).

Pokémon: Pikachu
Type: Electric
Abilities: Static/Lightning Rod/Aim for the Horn!
Aim for the Horn!: This Pokemon's Electric-type moves can affect Ground-type Pokemon, by aiming for the horn (even if they don't have a horn).
Stats: 70/95/70/90/70/130 (BST: 525)
New Moves: Zippy Zap, Floaty Fall, Splishy Splash (Partner Pikachu's Moves from Let's Go), Fire Punch, All Cosplay Pikachu Moves (Icicle Crash, Flying Press, Electric Terrain, Draining Kiss, Meteor Mash), Focus Blast
Updated Move: Volt Tackle - 120 BP, 95 Accuracy, Physical, Electric-type. 10 PP. Ignores the opponent's ability. Reduces the user's Defense and Special Defense by 1 stage upon use.
Updated Item: Light Ball- Aside from its normal effects of doubling Pikachu's Attack and Special Attack, cannot be removed if held by Pikachu.
Competitive (Niche in Ubers): The main issues Pikachu really faced was its low bulk and fairly poor speed. This fixes that (As well as giving Pikachu's attacks some actual kick to them even amongst Ubers), mostly by actually making Pikachu really fast (Y'know, as it's depicted in the anime). Pikachu's Zippy Zap bolstered by the Light Ball may be amongst the strongest priority moves in the game (and on top of that, it's +2 priority meaning it'll even outpace Arceus' Extreme Speed). Though Pikachu's main niche is giving Lugia and Ho-Oh a massive headache with either devastatingly powerful Volt Tackles (Which has been updated to an Electric-type Close Combat that also ignores abilities, instead just being Stronger Wild Charge) or picking them off with Zippy Zap. Zippy Zap can also be helpful in picking off weakened Arceus or Xerneas, while also making Mega Gengar think twice about trying to trap the rodent (Though to be fair Volt Tackle and Knock Off do a perfectly good job of that anyway). Floaty Fall gives Uberchu wide neutral coverage. Fire Punch gives Pikachuchu an option against Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Genesect, and Dusk Mane Necrozma. Cosplay Pikachu's moves are also consolidated into Pikachu, giving it consistent access to Icicle Crash to deal with MegaMence, Rayquaza and Zygarde-Complete (if Volt Tackle should prove insufficient for the former two), Flying Press to muscle through Kyurem-White while also being more threatening than Fire Punch against Mega Lucario, and Meteor Mash to utterly DEMOLISH Xerneas if it attempts to set up. Pikachu can also run Special Sets, using Hidden Power Fire to chunk the steels (HP Ice is mostly unnecessary, as most Dragons in Ubers don't resist Electric [or are not weak to Ice to begin with- and Icicle Crash is strong enough to get the job done even without investment]), Signal Beam to make Mewtwo rue the day it was born, Splishy Splash as Pikachu's own alternative to Scald (Except it threatens Paralysis, not Burns), Draining Kiss to MAYBE threaten an Electric-resistant Dragon, Grass Knot to ruin the Primals, and of course if all else fails it has STAB Thunderbolt and Volt Switch. Focus Blast lets Uberchu rip Dialga a new one.

Pikachu's new ability, Aim for the Horn!, is a reference to exactly what you'd think it'd be. This allows Pikachu to rain down thundering death on foolish Ground types who believed they would otherwise be safe, such as pesky Rhyperiors, or on a more serious note, Primal Groudons, meaning they cannot safely switch in on Pikachu using Volt Tackle, Zippy Zap or Thunderbolt. However, this ONLY works on Ground-types, and does not let Pikachuchu bypass other resistances (or ability-based immunities).

Pikachu is still totally reliant on its Light Ball, but it now has offensive prowess rivalling Deoxys-Attack, with a bit more bulk behind it, allowing it to barely take a single neutral hit in a pinch, but getting Pikachuchu in is going to be its biggest issue. It's a glass cannon best suited to revenge killing. It also can't really do much to Giratina save for maybe Knock Off. It also suffers from serious 4MSS, as Pikachu cannot deal with Dialga without Focus Blast or Brick Break, Mewtwo is a relatively safe switch-in against Pikachu that lack Signal Beam, though Volt Tackle and Knock Off also sting, Xerneas beats out all Special Pikachu sets, mostly only fearing Volt Tackle and Meteor Mash (or Zippy Zap if it's low), Necrozma-Dusk Mane can Ultra Burst to tank a Volt Tackle then reduce Pikachu to a pile of ashes with its Photon Geyser, Lunala can take a hit as Shadow Shield is not ignored by Volt Tackle and then reply back with a nasty Moongeist Beam, and so on.

 

[DemonicRex]

Whoa, I haven't been on this thread in a long time. Let's see if I can still make some more subs:

Pokémon: Avalugg
Typing:

/

Abilities: Storm Drain / Filter / Refrigerate
Stats: 101 / 122 / 195 / 45 / 95 / 42 (who uses Avalugg for Sp. Atk anyway?)
New Moves: Aqua Ring, Aurora Veil, Ice Shard, Haze, Stealth Rock, Waterfall, Liquidation, Scald
Competitive (niche in Ubers): This is how Avalugg should have been from the start. A better special defense stat as well as an absurd Defense, increased HP and a more beneficial typing lets it act as a much improved version of its former ZU self. Filter is also neat to take less damage from foes like Rampardos, Farfetch'd and Electivire so it doesn't have to waste turns clicking recover. However, the real boon comes with Refrigerate, as it now means that its Rapid Spin is completely unblockable, meaning Ghost-types can no longer switch into this. It also grants it a powerful attack in Return / Double-Edge. Some new utility moves were added as well, like Haze to nullify the multitude of sweepers, Stealth Rock for hazards of its own, and Scald for burns. Unfortunately, its Ice-typing still holds it back from being a great defensive mon, as it makes it weak to Stealth Rock and the aforementioned pokes. Primal Groudon is a pokemon that can switch into this with impunity, taking nothing from its Water STAB and being able to safely SD or RP. Its low speed leaves it vulnerable to being Taunted as well, meaning it can't accomplish its job. Lastly, it competes with Delibird as a defensive Ice-type, which has much greater defenses, better utility moves, and a more beneficial type, though this carves a niche due to Water-type and Refrigerate.

More to come soon...

 

[Jamis361]

I may not have won this time, but surely with enough persistence the rodent will win out! (In case you didn't get it, I'm submitting Pikachu again).

Pokémon: Pikachu
Type: Electric
Abilities: Static/Lightning Rod/Aim for the Horn!
Aim for the Horn!: This Pokemon's Electric-type moves can affect Ground-type Pokemon, by aiming for the horn (even if they don't have a horn).
Stats: 70/95/70/90/70/130 (BST: 525)
New Moves: Zippy Zap, Floaty Fall, Splishy Splash (Partner Pikachu's Moves from Let's Go), Fire Punch, All Cosplay Pikachu Moves (Icicle Crash, Flying Press, Electric Terrain, Draining Kiss, Meteor Mash), Focus Blast
Updated Move: Volt Tackle - 120 BP, 95 Accuracy, Physical, Electric-type. 10 PP. Ignores the opponent's ability. Reduces the user's Defense and Special Defense by 1 stage upon use.
Updated Item: Light Ball- Aside from its normal effects of doubling Pikachu's Attack and Special Attack, cannot be removed if held by Pikachu.
Competitive (Niche in Ubers): The main issues Pikachu really faced was its low bulk and fairly poor speed. This fixes that (As well as giving Pikachu's attacks some actual kick to them even amongst Ubers), mostly by actually making Pikachu really fast (Y'know, as it's depicted in the anime). Pikachu's Zippy Zap bolstered by the Light Ball may be amongst the strongest priority moves in the game (and on top of that, it's +2 priority meaning it'll even outpace Arceus' Extreme Speed). Though Pikachu's main niche is giving Lugia and Ho-Oh a massive headache with either devastatingly powerful Volt Tackles (Which has been updated to an Electric-type Close Combat that also ignores abilities, instead just being Stronger Wild Charge) or picking them off with Zippy Zap. Zippy Zap can also be helpful in picking off weakened Arceus or Xerneas, while also making Mega Gengar think twice about trying to trap the rodent (Though to be fair Volt Tackle and Knock Off do a perfectly good job of that anyway). Floaty Fall gives Uberchu wide neutral coverage. Fire Punch gives Pikachuchu an option against Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Genesect, and Dusk Mane Necrozma. Cosplay Pikachu's moves are also consolidated into Pikachu, giving it consistent access to Icicle Crash to deal with MegaMence, Rayquaza and Zygarde-Complete (if Volt Tackle should prove insufficient for the former two), Flying Press to muscle through Kyurem-White while also being more threatening than Fire Punch against Mega Lucario, and Meteor Mash to utterly DEMOLISH Xerneas if it attempts to set up. Pikachu can also run Special Sets, using Hidden Power Fire to chunk the steels (HP Ice is mostly unnecessary, as most Dragons in Ubers don't resist Electric [or are not weak to Ice to begin with- and Icicle Crash is strong enough to get the job done even without investment]), Signal Beam to make Mewtwo rue the day it was born, Splishy Splash as Pikachu's own alternative to Scald (Except it threatens Paralysis, not Burns), Draining Kiss to MAYBE threaten an Electric-resistant Dragon, Grass Knot to ruin the Primals, and of course if all else fails it has STAB Thunderbolt and Volt Switch. Focus Blast lets Uberchu rip Dialga a new one.

Pikachu's new ability, Aim for the Horn!, is a reference to exactly what you'd think it'd be. This allows Pikachu to rain down thundering death on foolish Ground types who believed they would otherwise be safe, such as pesky Rhyperiors, or on a more serious note, Primal Groudons, meaning they cannot safely switch in on Pikachu using Volt Tackle, Zippy Zap or Thunderbolt. However, this ONLY works on Ground-types, and does not let Pikachuchu bypass other resistances (or ability-based immunities).

Pikachu is still totally reliant on its Light Ball, but it now has offensive prowess rivalling Deoxys-Attack, with a bit more bulk behind it, allowing it to barely take a single neutral hit in a pinch, but getting Pikachuchu in is going to be its biggest issue. It's a glass cannon best suited to revenge killing. It also can't really do much to Giratina save for maybe Knock Off. It also suffers from serious 4MSS, as Pikachu cannot deal with Dialga without Focus Blast or Brick Break, Mewtwo is a relatively safe switch-in against Pikachu that lack Signal Beam, though Volt Tackle and Knock Off also sting, Xerneas beats out all Special Pikachu sets, mostly only fearing Volt Tackle and Meteor Mash (or Zippy Zap if it's low), Necrozma-Dusk Mane can Ultra Burst to tank a Volt Tackle then reduce Pikachu to a pile of ashes with its Photon Geyser, Lunala can take a hit as Shadow Shield is not ignored by Volt Tackle and then reply back with a nasty Moongeist Beam, and so on.

Well, since you’ve decided to resub, I’m not really going to hold back this time. Ignoring the fact that you modified pre-existing mechanics (something that has been disallowed by both G-Luke and myself), you need to understand how ridiculously broken this Pokémon is. I will demonstrate with a few calcs:
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 210-247 (55.7 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO—This is against a mon with 100/160 physical bulk, that would normally be immune.
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Ground: 270-318 (70.8 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO—This is against a mon with 120/120 physical bulk, that, again, would be immune.

Not only are both of these Ground-types 2HKOd by Pikachu, but they are 2HKOd by a move that does now inflicts no recoil damage. And since you decided to raise Pikachu’s bulk to decent levels, it can now take some priority moves that it has no business taking:
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario-Mega Bullet Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Pikachu: 210-248 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO—Adamant Luc and Pika is -1, Jolly vs +0 Def doesn’t even always do half
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pikachu: 219-258 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO—This is Silk Scarf-boosted, Leftovers only kills after 3 layers + Rocks
These are both pretty fast priority users as well. With Pikachu sitting at the 130 Speed tier, his Extreme Speed will be able to pick off both of them first after they take Volt Tackle.

The problem is, you want Pika to have his cake and eat it too. He needs coverage, he needs ok bulk, he needs a broken ability, and he needs a strong, spammable STAB. Unfortunately, no balanced Uber can have this many tools at their disposal, because that would just be unfair. This may not be the opinion of the majority, but it’s my two cents. I hope you will at least consider revising your sub to make it balanced.

 

[Champion Leon]

From now on, we will rotate slates in a weekly pattern of:

Week 1 - Slate Submissions begin on Saturdays at 12:00 Midnight PST, and end on the upcoming Fridays at 11:59 PM PST. This gives exactly 7 days to Submit your Pokémon.

Week 2 - All Voting begins on Saturdays at 12:00 Midnight PST. and end on the upcoming Fridays at 11:59 PM PST. This gives exactly 7 days to Submit your Vote.

This gives us all a fair and consistent slot of time to submit, vote, and move on to the next slate.
——————

I may not have won this time, but surely with enough persistence the rodent will win out! (In case you didn't get it, I'm submitting Pikachu again).

Pokémon: Pikachu
Type: Electric
Abilities: Static/Lightning Rod/Aim for the Horn!
Aim for the Horn!: This Pokemon's Electric-type moves can affect Ground-type Pokemon, by aiming for the horn (even if they don't have a horn).
Stats: 70/95/70/90/70/130 (BST: 525)
New Moves: Zippy Zap, Floaty Fall, Splishy Splash (Partner Pikachu's Moves from Let's Go), Fire Punch, All Cosplay Pikachu Moves (Icicle Crash, Flying Press, Electric Terrain, Draining Kiss, Meteor Mash), Focus Blast
Updated Move: Volt Tackle - 120 BP, 95 Accuracy, Physical, Electric-type. 10 PP. Ignores the opponent's ability. Reduces the user's Defense and Special Defense by 1 stage upon use.
Updated Item: Light Ball- Aside from its normal effects of doubling Pikachu's Attack and Special Attack, cannot be removed if held by Pikachu.
Competitive (Niche in Ubers): The main issues Pikachu really faced was its low bulk and fairly poor speed. This fixes that (As well as giving Pikachu's attacks some actual kick to them even amongst Ubers), mostly by actually making Pikachu really fast (Y'know, as it's depicted in the anime). Pikachu's Zippy Zap bolstered by the Light Ball may be amongst the strongest priority moves in the game (and on top of that, it's +2 priority meaning it'll even outpace Arceus' Extreme Speed). Though Pikachu's main niche is giving Lugia and Ho-Oh a massive headache with either devastatingly powerful Volt Tackles (Which has been updated to an Electric-type Close Combat that also ignores abilities, instead just being Stronger Wild Charge) or picking them off with Zippy Zap. Zippy Zap can also be helpful in picking off weakened Arceus or Xerneas, while also making Mega Gengar think twice about trying to trap the rodent (Though to be fair Volt Tackle and Knock Off do a perfectly good job of that anyway). Floaty Fall gives Uberchu wide neutral coverage. Fire Punch gives Pikachuchu an option against Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Genesect, and Dusk Mane Necrozma. Cosplay Pikachu's moves are also consolidated into Pikachu, giving it consistent access to Icicle Crash to deal with MegaMence, Rayquaza and Zygarde-Complete (if Volt Tackle should prove insufficient for the former two), Flying Press to muscle through Kyurem-White while also being more threatening than Fire Punch against Mega Lucario, and Meteor Mash to utterly DEMOLISH Xerneas if it attempts to set up. Pikachu can also run Special Sets, using Hidden Power Fire to chunk the steels (HP Ice is mostly unnecessary, as most Dragons in Ubers don't resist Electric [or are not weak to Ice to begin with- and Icicle Crash is strong enough to get the job done even without investment]), Signal Beam to make Mewtwo rue the day it was born, Splishy Splash as Pikachu's own alternative to Scald (Except it threatens Paralysis, not Burns), Draining Kiss to MAYBE threaten an Electric-resistant Dragon, Grass Knot to ruin the Primals, and of course if all else fails it has STAB Thunderbolt and Volt Switch. Focus Blast lets Uberchu rip Dialga a new one.

Pikachu's new ability, Aim for the Horn!, is a reference to exactly what you'd think it'd be. This allows Pikachu to rain down thundering death on foolish Ground types who believed they would otherwise be safe, such as pesky Rhyperiors, or on a more serious note, Primal Groudons, meaning they cannot safely switch in on Pikachu using Volt Tackle, Zippy Zap or Thunderbolt. However, this ONLY works on Ground-types, and does not let Pikachuchu bypass other resistances (or ability-based immunities).

Pikachu is still totally reliant on its Light Ball, but it now has offensive prowess rivalling Deoxys-Attack, with a bit more bulk behind it, allowing it to barely take a single neutral hit in a pinch, but getting Pikachuchu in is going to be its biggest issue. It's a glass cannon best suited to revenge killing. It also can't really do much to Giratina save for maybe Knock Off. It also suffers from serious 4MSS, as Pikachu cannot deal with Dialga without Focus Blast or Brick Break, Mewtwo is a relatively safe switch-in against Pikachu that lack Signal Beam, though Volt Tackle and Knock Off also sting, Xerneas beats out all Special Pikachu sets, mostly only fearing Volt Tackle and Meteor Mash (or Zippy Zap if it's low), Necrozma-Dusk Mane can Ultra Burst to tank a Volt Tackle then reduce Pikachu to a pile of ashes with its Photon Geyser, Lunala can take a hit as Shadow Shield is not ignored by Volt Tackle and then reply back with a nasty Moongeist Beam, and so on.

To acknowledge rebalancing issues by Jamis361

Hide

, I am proposing a few suggestions. I know in the past my Delibird and Regice suggestions were accepted and they ended up winning their slates (I don’t take credit for the win, but my point is my suggestions didn’t hurt).

Here are some ideas I have as I think it needs to be nerfed majorly-

Make Pikachu 60 HP / 70 Atk / 60 Def / 70 SpA / 60 Def / 91 Spe

OVERALL:
For all submissions-

All original effects of old moves / items / abilities are kept, you may have 1 new move, 1 new Z-move, 1 new ability, and 1 new item. (Jamis361 & I will allow 2 new items if 1 is a Z-Crystal, while another is a key item like a field effect Extender - like I had for Mr. Mime)

For Pikachu:

Pikachu already is the only Pokémon that has more than 1 Signature Z-Move, and I won’t allow multiple Signature Z-moves, so let’s not bother adding a third.

Pikachu already has a key item in Light Ball, so we don’t really need to give it another.

So you can only add 1 new Move, and 1 new Ability for Pikachu.

Since Let’s Go Pikachu and Eevee don’t correlate with Ultra Sun and Moon, the main series games, you can only bring 1 move from those Pikachu Signature Attacks (Zippy Zap, Floaty Fall, OR Splishy Splash) of those games to this Pet Mod and count that as your 1 New Move (unless you want to add a separate new move instead)

I’ll allow all the other moves from the main series games that you proposed, as those are based on the unique costumes so that seems fair (All Cosplay Pikachu Moves - Icicle Crash, Flying Press, Electric Terrain, Draining Kiss, Meteor Mash).

Of course, the regular moves you are adding to its movepool- Fire Punch, Focus Blast, etc. are fine too.

Let’s really aim for the horn, in the actual concept. Maybe based on whichever of the 3 Signature moves you bring, you can make Pikachu have a second type, such as Water for Splishy Splash, or Flying for Floaty Fall. For Zippy Zap, you can just leave it a Pure Electric, or maybe add Normal, which would boost Extreme Speed but not add super effective coverage.

Memes are cute, but I think we should still change the ability:

Mascot Mouse- All of the user’s Electric Attacks are neutral, unless the foe is immune - no Pokémon is weak, or resistant.

This seems more fair bc the drawback is you cannot deal super effective damage.

Bare in mind, having access to Nasty Plot makes Pikachu very powerful. So I am ensuring it has a hard time setting up due to lower Defenses.

 

[Neosonic97]

Response to the ideas

Mascot Mouse- All of the user’s Electric Attacks are neutral, unless the foe is immune - no Pokémon is weak, or resistant.

I feel that drawback of this is WAY too steep, as it means that Pikachu just straight-up loses to 'mons that it shouldn't (Like, for instance, it wouldn't be able to crush Yveltal on the switch due to the lost SE hit, meaning it loses the ability to check Yveltal for very little benefit, to say nothing about being unable to do ANYTHING to Lugia or Ho-Oh any more without Nasty Plot (which I'll go into in a minute as to why THAT's not worth running). And for what? The ability to hit Dialga, Giratina and Ultra Necrozma Neutrally?).

Make Pikachu 60 HP / 70 Atk / 60 Def / 70 SpA / 60 Def / 91 Spe

THAT change to stats wouldn't even bring Pikachu into PU, let alone Ubers, Because it's still too frail and too slow. It's basically Deoxys-A except it loses loads of speed for only a bit more attack, and it doesn't have anywhere near as good coverage.

having access to Nasty Plot makes Pikachu very powerful.

This I disagree with because Pikachu's special coverage, even with all of the cosplay attacks (of which only one is special), is, well, horribly insufficient for dealing with Ubers, to say the least. It can get Electric, Grass, Water, Fairy, Bug and a Hidden Power. This is unlike Darkrai, the other Nasty Plot 'mon, who is not only blazing fast, but actually has good coverage to hit the Ubers metagame (Dark Pulse alone hits multiple of the top threats such as Necrozma-Dusk Mane and Giratina, plus the rare Lunala).

Amongst those, Bug-type coverage is borderline useless in Ubers due to the omnipresence of Primal Groudon, Giratina and many other bug-resistant 'mons (The only notable 'mon it would hit effectively is Mewtwo who even my original Pikachu slate has no right facing 1-on-1 anyway, mostly owing to Dusk-Mane's high bulk meaning even with Light Ball), Draining Kiss is far too weak to be effective even against MegaMence, Surf is useless against the only 'mon it WOULD hit super effectively, that being Primal Groudon, because Desolate Land stuffs that. Grass Knot doesn't really hit much of the Metagame effectively either save for PDon (who, again, this nerfed Pikachu has no right facing), and Electric is hard-walled by half the metagame (Plus again, Primal Groudon is everywhere), hence why Zekrom is rarely if ever seen.

Since Let’s Go Pikachu and Eevee don’t correlate with Ultra Sun and Moon, the main series games, you can only bring 1 move from those Pikachu Signature Attacks (Zippy Zap, Floaty Fall, OR Splishy Splash)

That seems fair. Zippy Zap would be the main one as it gives Pikachu another form of powerful priority, trying to help get around its poor speed. Splishy Splash is basically Surf, and Floaty Fall's coverage doesn't really warrant enough use.

Pikachu already has a key item in Light Ball, so we don’t really need to give it another.

The main change I'd make to Light Ball is just make it so that it can't be removed if held by Pikachu, so that Pikachu isn't totally screwed against 'mons that can remove items.

Ultimately, balancing Pikachu is a big tight-rope act, as if we go too far it becomes broken (like what I did), but if we don't go far enough (like what you did), it remains Untiered-level trash.

Ultimately, I feel your ideas don't really solve the problem as to why Pikachu is Untiered to begin with: It's slow, frail and has bad coverage issues, even with the special moves from Cosplay Pikachu AND all three of Let's Go's Partner Pikachu moves. A unique item really doesn't change that, nor do the Unique Z-Moves (Which Pikachu should NEVER use).

 

[Jerry the great]

Hey Jamis361, you forgot to bold the mons that won.

 

[War Incarnate]

Hey Jamis361, you forgot to bold the mons that won.

He already did it.

 

[Jerry the great]

He already did it.

They were not bolded at the time of that message

 

[War Incarnate]

They were not bolded at the time of that message

RIght. Sorry for the misunderstandings.

 

[Champion Leon]

Response to the ideas

I feel that drawback of this is WAY too steep, as it means that Pikachu just straight-up loses to 'mons that it shouldn't (Like, for instance, it wouldn't be able to crush Yveltal on the switch due to the lost SE hit, meaning it loses the ability to check Yveltal for very little benefit, to say nothing about being unable to do ANYTHING to Lugia or Ho-Oh any more without Nasty Plot (which I'll go into in a minute as to why THAT's not worth running). And for what? The ability to hit Dialga, Giratina and Ultra Necrozma Neutrally?).



THAT change to stats wouldn't even bring Pikachu into PU, let alone Ubers, Because it's still too frail and too slow. It's basically Deoxys-A except it loses loads of speed for only a bit more attack, and it doesn't have anywhere near as good coverage.


This I disagree with because Pikachu's special coverage, even with all of the cosplay attacks (of which only one is special), is, well, horribly insufficient for dealing with Ubers, to say the least. It can get Electric, Grass, Water, Fairy, Bug and a Hidden Power. This is unlike Darkrai, the other Nasty Plot 'mon, who is not only blazing fast, but actually has good coverage to hit the Ubers metagame (Dark Pulse alone hits multiple of the top threats such as Necrozma-Dusk Mane and Giratina, plus the rare Lunala).

Amongst those, Bug-type coverage is borderline useless in Ubers due to the omnipresence of Primal Groudon, Giratina and many other bug-resistant 'mons (The only notable 'mon it would hit effectively is Mewtwo who even my original Pikachu slate has no right facing 1-on-1 anyway, mostly owing to Dusk-Mane's high bulk meaning even with Light Ball), Draining Kiss is far too weak to be effective even against MegaMence, Surf is useless against the only 'mon it WOULD hit super effectively, that being Primal Groudon, because Desolate Land stuffs that. Grass Knot doesn't really hit much of the Metagame effectively either save for PDon (who, again, this nerfed Pikachu has no right facing), and Electric is hard-walled by half the metagame (Plus again, Primal Groudon is everywhere), hence why Zekrom is rarely if ever seen.



That seems fair. Zippy Zap would be the main one as it gives Pikachu another form of powerful priority, trying to help get around its poor speed. Splishy Splash is basically Surf, and Floaty Fall's coverage doesn't really warrant enough use.



The main change I'd make to Light Ball is just make it so that it can't be removed if held by Pikachu, so that Pikachu isn't totally screwed against 'mons that can remove items.

Ultimately, balancing Pikachu is a big tight-rope act, as if we go too far it becomes broken (like what I did), but if we don't go far enough (like what you did), it remains Untiered-level trash.

Ultimately, I feel your ideas don't really solve the problem as to why Pikachu is Untiered to begin with: It's slow, frail and has bad coverage issues, even with the special moves from Cosplay Pikachu AND all three of Let's Go's Partner Pikachu moves. A unique item really doesn't change that, nor do the Unique Z-Moves (Which Pikachu should NEVER use).

Hide

Let’s be fair here, Pikachu has 2 other abilities you proposed, so it is not required to use Mascot Mouse - In either case, I am proposing a change to Mascot Mouse below to make its Electric moves sync with its highest offense stat (like Photon Geyser).

For Mascot Mouse - I’ll agree it may be limiting, so if I changed it to: “Electric Attacks hit off of Pikachu’s highest Offensive stat and get a 10% Power boost.”

This makes it non-abusable by other Electric Pokémon (Pikachu in the name), and allows you to go physical with Thunderbolt if you want to pair it with Icicle Crash, and enables you to also turn helpful moves like Zippy Zap into Special Attacks.

Pikachu has Icicle Crash, so it can hit Pokémon like Zygarde-Complete on the switch in, and outspeed for a second hit, if needed.

Obviously, this 3HKO assumes Zygarde has transformed due to its ability in the first place, otherwise Icicle Crash is going to deal way more and threaten with 1-2HKOs. As Defense sets run no Speed, while Offense sets don’t run max Speed and much lower bulk as they rely on Dragon Dance for Speed, meaning if Zygarde comes in, somehow survives Icicle Crash (due to a miss) then it will still be outspeed for a KO.

252 Atk Pikachu Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 156-188 (37.1 - 44.7%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Since Zippy Zap isn’t an old mainseries move, you could also just make it a Special Attack.

Let’s review the stats, as the advantage over Darkrai, and others includes a boosting move + mixed offense.
Using Encore, Nasty Plot, Thunderbolt, and another coverage move allows Pikachu to Wall break.

I could agree that Pikachu might need a slight buff to what I mentioned for its stats. So let’s make Pikachu’s Attack and Special Attack 75 instead of 70, which with the item makes it a full 20 offense stat difference (actual stat difference = 2x Base Stat difference x 2 from Light Ball), and allow it’s Speed to be 100, so it will always outspeed Yveltal.

This improved Speed will allow it to Encore against more Pokemon’s support moves and set up. I don’t really see the merit in Zippy Zap unless you make it a Special Attack (which you can since it’s not officially in the main series, and therefore it’s not editing an old main series move, or if you keep it Physical you could just rely on Mascot Mouse) and that way you can use Special Attack Priority with Nasty Plot.

To bring up the counters and checks to Pikachu, everything needs checks, and I think Pikachu can have them. Primal Groudon doesn’t need to be defeated by Pikachu, as Pikachu already hits Yveltal, Kyogre, Ho-Oh, Lugia, and others very well with STAB, as even before I changed Mascot Mouse, you had 2 other abilities that wouldn’t have made Thunderbolt neutral. These are all suggestions, incorporating what you brought up- stats, ability, etc.

Light Ball doesn’t need to have the Sticky Hold effect, I agree with Jamis on keeping old things as is.

Let’s also not forget about your Focus Blast addition, which can hit things like Dialga pretty hard

Lets move on, and focus back on new submissions.

EDIT: I edited my post for a bit, so please check out this new edit in case you saw a previous draft. (View the edit time to see if it’s after you last read this post)

 

[anaconja]

Pokémon: Muk
Type: Poison
Abilities: Stench/Poison Touch/Unaware
Stats: 105/105/105/65/100/50 (530 BST)
New Moves: Slack Off
Competitive (Niche in Ubers): Muk is a solid Unaware user, notably being able to wall Xerneas, all offensive Arceus formes (besides Ground), and Mega Lucario. On the other hand, its general bulk can easily be muscled through by Kyogre(-Primal) and Salamence-Mega, and many setup sweepers have coverage for Poison, most notably the Necrozma formes, Lunala, and Zygarde-Complete.

Pokémon: Bibarel
Type: Normal/Water
Abilities: Simple/Unaware/Tough Claws
Stats: 99/105/80/65/80/91 (520 BST)
New Moves: Ice Fang
Competitive (Niche in Ubers): Bibarel is a threatening sweeper due to its ability to up its Attack 4 stages in one turn. While it doesn't have the best coverage moves, it's enough to hit most things in the tier for supereffective damage where it counts - Stomping Tantrum hits Groudon-Primal, Superpower hits Ferrothorn, Crunch hits Giratina, and Ice Fang hits Zygarde-Complete. Because of this, though, Bibarel suffers severe 4MSS, not to mention that it lacks any power unboosted.

Pokémon: Beautifly
Type: Bug/Flying
Abilities: Compound Eyes/Tinted Lens
Stats: 60/65/80/100/80/100 (485 BST)
New Moves: Hurricane, Sleep Powder
Competitive (Niche in Ubers): Butterfree is a powerful Quiver Dance sweeper due to its access to Sleep Powder and fairly powerful moves in Hurricane and Bug Buzz. However, it finds great difficulty setting up due to its bad bulk and low speed tier.

 

[Neosonic97]

Just gonna address two things...

Let’s review the stats, as the advantage over Darkrai, and others includes a boosting move + mixed offense.

Um, Pikachu's only advantage over Darkrai in this case is the ability to go mixed. Darkrai gets Nasty Plot as well, and is a much better user due to A: being MUCH faster, B: having MUCH better bulk that actually facilitiates being able to take a decently powerful neutral hit, and C: Dark-type STAB is MUCH better in Ubers than Electric STAB, because Dark-type STAB hits common threats Super-effectively while not being completely worthless against the single most common Pokemon in the entire tier.

Encore, Nasty Plot, Thunderbolt, and another coverage move allows Pikachu to Wall break.

Sadly, no. Pikachu is always going to get Hard-walled by something in Ubers if it runs this set, mostly owing to one thing: The most common Pokemon in the Uber Tier (and widely considered the best) is Primal Groudon. If it lacks Grass Knot, PDon walls it hard, and given PDon's omnipresence in Ubers, that completely invalidates any choice of coverage move that's not named Grass Knot, as none of its special coverage otherwise will put a notable dent in it, even with the Light Ball, unless Pikachu is allowed the opportunity to set up (And it can't even reliably do this against the least powerful attacker in the tier, Lugia, as Lugia often carries Psychic which, even with 0 investment, will absolutely mutiliate the mouse given its bulk is only marginally better than Deoxys-A, and Lugia's faster so switching in and Encoring it isn't an option). This means that Pikachu gets invalidated by a myriad of other Pokemon including Zygarde-C, Necrozma-DM, most Arceus Forms but especially Dragon and Grass, and so on. I really can't overstate how much Primal Groudon's presence really hurts Pikachu here.

Ultimately, though, this is more a statement about the state of Ubers rather than anything about Pikachu itself: Being an Electric-type is an enormous liability unless you have SOMETHING to reliably beat Primal Groudon. This is why you pretty much never see anybody use Zekrom in Ubers nowadays: Zekrom really can't do anything to PDon. (Speaking of Zekrom, that's another 'mon of the many that completely invalidates this Pikachu).

This is pretty much why I made my Pikachu submission as strong as it was: Electric is a very bad typing in Ubers due to PDon being everywhere. The only way that would ever change is in the extremely unlikely event that Primal Groudon gets banned to Anything Goes.

And just to prove that this Pikachu WOULD get mutilated by even standard Defensive Lugia...

0 SpA Lugia Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pikachu: 135-159 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Setting up isn't just HARD for this Pikachu- It's nigh-impossible.

 

[Jerry the great]

Just gonna address two things...



Um, Pikachu's only advantage over Darkrai in this case is the ability to go mixed. Darkrai gets Nasty Plot as well, and is a much better user due to A: being MUCH faster, B: having better bulk, and C: Dark-type STAB is MUCH better in Ubers than Electric STAB, because Dark-type STAB hits common threats Super-effectively while not being completely worthless against the single most common Pokemon in the entire tier.



Sadly, no. Pikachu is always going to get Hard-walled by something in Ubers if it runs this set, mostly owing to one thing: The most common Pokemon in the Uber Tier (and widely considered the best) is Primal Groudon. If it lacks Grass Knot, PDon walls it hard, and given PDon's omnipresence in Ubers, that completely invalidates any choice of coverage move that's not named Grass Knot, as none of its special coverage otherwise will put a notable dent in it, even with the Light Ball, unless Pikachu is allowed the opportunity to set up (And it can't even reliably do this against the least powerful attacker in the tier, Lugia, as Lugia sometimes carries Psychic which, even with 0 investment, will absolutely mutiliate the mouse given its bulk is only marginally better than Deoxys-A). This means that Pikachu gets invalidated by a myriad of other Pokemon including Zygarde-C, Necrozma-DM, most Arceus Forms but especially Dragon and Grass, and so on. I really can't overstate how much Primal Groudon's presence really hurts Pikachu here.

Ultimately, though, this is more a statement about the state of Ubers rather than anything about Pikachu itself: Being an Electric-type is an enormous liability unless you have SOMETHING to reliably beat Primal Groudon. This is why you pretty much never see anybody use Zekrom in Ubers nowadays: Zekrom really can't do anything to PDon. (Speaking of Zekrom, that's another 'mon of the many that completely invalidates this Pikachu).

This is pretty much why I made my Pikachu submission as strong as it was: Electric is a very bad typing in Ubers due to PDon being everywhere. The only way that would ever change is in the extremely unlikely event that Primal Groudon gets banned to Anything Goes.

I mean my Lapras, it's HUGE Primal Groudon bait, as well as Primal Kyogre bait and Dusk Mane Necrozma bait. However, I made up for it by allowing it to steam the game if those three was to be taken out. In fact if anything, alot of my submissions work like this: Make em able to obliterate many things in ubers, but make up for it via making them Primal Groudon bait, and some others. Exception is Beyheeyem, as it would do crazy damage to it and such, but cannot take a hit from nearly anything. Not just Lapras either, but I don't want to get real real deep. So just being Primal Groudon bait alone won't completely ruin it as long as you have ways to beat other important stuff.

 

[Neosonic97]

I mean my Lapras, it's HUGE Primal Groudon bait, as well as Primal Kyogre bait and Dusk Mane Necrozma bait. However, I made up for it by allowing it to steam the game if those three was to be taken out. In fact if anything, alot of my submissions work like this: Make em able to obliterate many things in ubers, but make up for it via making them Primal Groudon bait, and some others. Exception is Beyheeyem, as it would do crazy damage to it and such, but cannot take a hit from nearly anything. Not just Lapras either, but I don't wan to get real real deep. So just being Primal Groudon bait alone won't completely ruin it as long as you have ways to beat other important stuff.

Problem is this new Pikachu doesn't even do that. Electric is a bad typing in Ubers due to dragons running around everywhere (And PDon means the Wallbreaker set isn't even a good wallbreaker because it FORCES the use of Grass Knot to not completely waste Nasty Plot if PDon switches in- and that's assuming Pikachu ever gets off a Nasty Plot against something it can threaten to begin with, which should never, EVER happen if the opponent has any idea of how to play competitively), and it has no right facing most Uber Pokemon. It can't even reliably switch in on Lugia, for crying out loud! Y'know, the most passive Pokemon in the tier? If Lugia uses Psychic on Pikachu as it switches in, Pikachu loses 100% of the time (And Lugia's Psychic is just about the only attacking move it can ever hope to take aside from Mega Luc's Bullet Punch- and this Pikachu has no right ever appearing before Mega Luc to begin with, as Mega Luc is faster and can easily revenge it even in the astronomically unlikely event that it does get a Nasty Plot up). Pikachu needs immediate and explosive power to make up for the fact that any solid hit can and will OHKO it. Pikachu's lack of bulk means relying on ANY form of set-up is immediately out of the question. The only way I could see this Pikachu working is on gimmicky Baton Pass teams.

Ultimately, I think that's what a lot of people forgot about Pikachu; Its offenses are solid, but it's quite literally got the defenses of wet tissue paper, even with the buffs.

So many common Uber Pokemon check/counter this Pikachu that it's not funny.

 

[Jerry the great]

Problem is this new Pikachu doesn't even do that. Electric is a bad typing in Ubers due to dragons running around everywhere (And PDon means the Wallbreaker set isn't even a good wallbreaker because it FORCES the use of Grass Knot to not completely waste Nasty Plot, and it has no right facing most Uber Pokemon. It can't even reliably switch in on Lugia, for crying out loud! Y'know, the most passive Pokemon in the tier? If Lugia uses Psychic on Pikachu as it switches in, Pikachu loses 100% of the time (And Lugia's Psychic is just about the only attacking move it can ever hope to take aside from Mega Luc's Bullet Punch- and this Pikachu has no right ever appearing before Mega Luc to begin with, as Mega Luc is faster and can easily revenge it even in the event that it does get a Nasty Plot up). Pikachu needs immediate and explosive power to make up for the fact that any solid hit can and will OHKO it.

So many common Uber Pokemon counter this Pikachu that it's not funny.

Ah my bad... Yeah they nerfed it, but I think they should've nerfed it less hard now that you think about it. Like maybe just get rid of the ability to use every cosplay and starter pika move, but make it to where you can use one of them. That alone was all the needs it needed to be busted but not so busted in my opinion.