OU ORAS OU Viability Rankings

Code:
Rises:
Mega Alakazam A- -> A

Drops:
Weavile A+ -> A
Suicune A -> A-
Tangrowth A- -> B
Jirachi A- -> B
Mega Gyarados B+ -> B
Nidoking B+ -> B
Mega Venusaur B+ -> B
Mega Gardevoir B+ -> B
votes and full slate. thanks ABR, BKC, CBB, and bro fist for voting. i won't reveal who voted for what, but the first votes are mine. now for some explanations as to why some of this stuff rose / dropped:
  • mega alakazam has been seeing more and more usage lately, specifically on spike builds. mega alakazam + spikes isn't anything new, but the absolute dominance of spikes builds has made it a clearly fantastic pick. see the team z0m used in stour for a good example of this archetype.
  • while weavile is a huge threat and a pursuit trapper, it isn't the easiest thing to throw on many builds. its stealth rocks weakness really shows due to the limited hazard removal, meaning weavile builds can end up pretty linear. as a pursuit trapper, it lacks the utility that tyranitar and mega metagross have.
  • suicune has just fallen off lately. personally, i think it being A rank to begin with was just an overreaction to vincune being so good for a like a year. as a threat, it's more on par with threats in A- like zard-y.
  • tangrowth is bad and hasn't seen any relevant usage in a long time.
  • jirachi is bad and hasn't seen any relevant usage in a long time.
  • mega gyarados is bad and has seen one instance of relevant usage in a long time (psychicmewtwo vs ABR (i think) in WCoP).
  • nidoking is bad and hasn't seen any relevant usage in a long time.
  • mega venusaur is bad and hasn't seen any relevant usage in a long time.
  • mega gardevoir is bad and hasn't seen any relevant usage in a long time.
on another note, i will no longer be using stour records as a way to pick people to vote on the slate, since there's a general lack of interest there.
The majority of the statements made here, in my opinion are wrong and ignorant

1546813385448.png
Weavile: Not understanding how it's difficult to fit on teams. Being one of the few things that can one shot Gliscor along with being able to naturally outspeed / trap Torn is an incredible quality, only shared with the more niche Mega Aerodactyl. Knock is super relevant with more Skarms running Shed due to the Magnezone spam, which helps out a lot if you're using a team that's Mag based

Stealth Rock weakness is simply a poor argument. Mons such as Volc / Zards are capable of smacking teams up regardless and Weavile isn't even as weak to SR compared to the aforementioned. The comparison to tar / metagross is not fair either since Weavile isn't meant to switch into anything. Scarf Tar, the most common set currently has to deal with literal 50 / 50's vs Starmie due to Pursuit not doing enough (same with metagross). Also cannot break Chansey whom sees use on some teams, whereas Weavile destroys both guaranteed

1546815863187.png
Tangrowth: If anything Growth got much better because of how much Metagross / Mega Bro are used, as its able to temporarily deal wit Bro via Sleep Powder (super nice vs Clef to). Helmet can wall it consistently along with other big threats like Gliscor, Lopunny, Bisharp making it pretty splashable. All that being said, A- -> B is an extremely hasty and unjustified decision, with the only argument being "hasn't seen any relevant usage in a long time".

1546816497958.png
Mega Gyarados: Possibly one of the most anti-meta and underrated mons in the tier. With the huge Mega Slowbro & T wave reg Bro / Gliscor / Jellicent fetish a lot of players have this can just abuse those generic type of teams. Gastrodon which is used quite a bit is also set up fodder. Undoubtedly superior to Zard X as a Dragon Dancer because it doesn't care about Land-t / Heatran

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-399589
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-400071

These games show how dangerous it can be. Again, just because it fails to see use doesn't automatically mean it's "bad". That's the player base either not willing to experiment or not having enough knowledge of Oras to utilize Mega Gyara effectively

In conclusion keep these the way they were before
 
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The majority of the statements made here, in my opinion are wrong and ignorant

View attachment 154380Weavile: Not understanding how it's difficult to fit on teams. Being one of the few things that can one shot Gliscor along with being able to naturally outspeed / trap Torn is an incredible quality, only shared with the more niche Mega Aerodactyl. Knock is super relevant with more Skarms running Shed due to the Magnezone spam, which helps out a lot if you're using a team that's Mag based

Stealth Rock weakness is simply a poor argument. Mons such as Volc / Zards are capable of smacking teams up regardless and Weavile isn't even as weak to SR compared to the aforementioned. The comparison to tar / metagross is not fair either since Weavile isn't meant to switch into anything. Scarf Tar, the most common set currently has to deal with literal 50 / 50's vs Starmie due to Pursuit not doing enough (same with metagross). Also cannot break Chansey whom sees use on some teams, whereas Weavile destroys both guaranteed

View attachment 154386Tangrowth: If anything Growth got much better because of how much Metagross / Mega Bro are used, as its able to temporarily deal wit Bro via Sleep Powder (super nice vs Clef to). Helmet can wall it consistently along with other big threats like Gliscor, Lopunny, Bisharp making it pretty splashable. All that being said, A- -> B is an extremely hasty and unjustified decision, with the only argument being "hasn't seen any relevant usage in a long time".

View attachment 154387Mega Gyarados: Possibly one of the most anti-meta and underrated mons in the tier. With the huge Mega Slowbro & T wave reg Bro / Gliscor / Jellicent fetish a lot of players have this can just abuse those generic type of teams. Gastrodon which is used quite a bit is also set up fodder. Undoubtedly superior to Zard X as a Dragon Dancer because it doesn't care about Land-t / Heatran

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-399589
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-400071

These games show how dangerous it can be. Again, just because it fails to see use doesn't automatically mean it's "bad". That's the player base either not willing to experiment or not having enough knowledge of Oras to utilize Mega Gyara effectively

In conclusion keep these the way they were before
thanks for the input Deej, though i honestly don't appreciate this stuff being called "wrong and ignorant" based on my silly 1 liners about each mon. i am, admittedly, poor at writing descriptions for these changes, especially when i didn't care about or disagreed with some of them. anyway, about the ones you brought up:

weavile is a huge threat, and in this instance, i think it's very fair to compare it to other pokemon in A rank rather than talk about it more abstractly. honestly, a disparity between A and A+ has begun, especially with pokemon like mega scizor, latios, and tornadus-t dropping. not only did these mons decline in viability, but many of the pokemon they once shared a rank with increased in viability. mega slowbro, gliscor, and ferrothorn are nearly borderline S rank pokemon, tyranitar is the face of certain playstyles and the most clear pursuit trapper, and landorus-t and heatran are two of the most versatile and reliable utility mons in the tier.

i think bringing up weavile's stealth rock weakness and its inability to switch into things is fair when you are comparing how it performs as a pursuit trapper to other pokemon. unless i specifically need the offensive capability weavile provides AND i already have hazard removal, i find myself not going for weavile as a pursuit trapper. this is not to say weavile isn't still a top tier offensive threat and a great pursuit trapper, it is. it simply does not perform the role of pursuit trapper as reliably as tyranitar and mega metagross. offensive threats can obviously be A+ rank or S rank: volcarona could've potentially risen and it needs far greater team support than weavile does. however, it's very hard to argue this in weavile's case, especially compared to other pokemon in the rank. bold clefable, keldeo, bullet punch metagross, ferrothorn, tyranitar, and heatran are all common things, and hazard removal is a harder to fit thing than before. this isn't to say all these mons (among many others) perfectly check weavile, rather it's to point out that many of the top mons in the tier do a good job of pressuring weavile.

i'd agree that on paper, tangrowth seems like it should be better, but the reality is people aren't frequently building with it because its support is so limited. the rocky helmet set definitely walls the heck out of megagross, but tour play shows alternative means of doing that. by that logic, mega scizor should have also never dropped. there are other, more versatile ways of beating mega metagross than physically defensive tangrowth, a mon that honestly isn't bringing much to the table for most teams other than walling megagross. sd landorus-t and sd garchomp are way less common than before, so what is it really walling that's relevant outside of megagross and like excadrill?

i don't think it being a bro check is that significant when there are other things that can also do that just fine.

i agree that mega gyarados is antimeta, but the VR is indicative of the meta, not what beats the meta in theory. i cannot put enough emphasis on how much we look at current trends and builds AKA what people are ACTUALLY bringing to tournament games. i have a ton of niche pokemon in mind that i think could rise in ranks based off their abilities to handle a bunch of meta shit, but these are limited to friendlies... they aren't seeing tournament play. the facts are that mega gyarados and tangrowth definitely see a lot less usage than before, and in tangrowth's case there is a clear issue of fitting it on teams. mega gyara is still a huge threat, and i would never take it for granted in that regard. honestly, the reason why a lot of megas dropped is due to how centralized the mega slot has become lately. it's hard to justify bringing builds with more niche megas when it means missing out on 2 of the best pokemon in the tier (mega slowbro and mega metagross).

my main point is that you need to recognize that the VR is a metagame resource, and as such, it will be really focused on the current meta. usage doesn't purely dictate things, as shown by a bunch of mons still ranked highly that don't see nearly as much usage as they used to, but it is definitely a factor.
 
Destin77 B+ rank.

update:
Code:
keldeo: S -> A+
tyranitar: A+ -> A
landorus-t: A+ -> A
heatran: A+ -> A
tornadus-t: A -> A+
volcarona: A -> A-
magnezone: A -> A+
mega scizor: A -> A-
mega diancie: A -> A-
mega medicham: A -> A-
garchomp: A- -> A
serperior: A- -> A
bisharp: A- -> A
chansey: B+ -> A-
azumarill: B+ -> A-
jellicent: B+ -> B
galvantula: UR -> C
full slate. slate was voted on by me, ABR, and BKC.

reasoning for shifts:
edit2: since it wasn't clear to some ppl before, explanations are in the same order of the slate above. i don't want to edit in pictures or whatever.
  • while keldeo is still one of the absolute best pokemon in the tier, builds have become less susceptible to it structurally. reliable switch-ins like amoonguss and jellicent have always been effective, but recently, we've been seeing more teams utilizing frameworks that don't need such a dedicated keldeo answer while still being able to beat it. whether that be speedy offenses (think azu/bisharp/thundy stuff) that out-offense it or bulky offenses and balances utilizing AV tornadus-t + ferro + clef, for example, keld has calmed down lately compared to last year. it's also worth noting that clefable and mega metagross have gotten even better over the last year, which largely contributes to keldeo dropping from the rank they occupy... it makes sense for those two to be above the rest of the tier.
  • keldeo becoming a little worse didn't help tyranitar, but what's even worse is that mega metagross became the preferred pursuit trapper with it on many builds, hurting keldeo's niche. excadrill, serperior, azumarill, and bisharp, have all been seeing more play lately, which ttar (especially one locked into pursuit) does not like.
  • landorus-t did not have a great SPL. while it was #7 in usage, it had an abysmal 28.57% winrate. while these statistics aren't everything, it is pretty indicative of the decline landorus-t has been seeing for well over a year now in ORAS. pokemon you used to use defensive landorus-t to answer like birds and mega charizard x have seen super low usage, and now it faces competition from tankchomp as a bulky ground utility mon (and i guess fat excadrill as well, but they don't have nearly as much overlap in roles as lando and chomp). scarf is probably the best set right now, but the bulky offense frameworks you'd typically see it on, such as the hydreigon one CBB and Poek made for last SPL, are not the most optimal frameworks to be running right now, largely due to how prone they can be to bisharp azu thundy offenses and spikes. i understand that this is probably the most subjective drop in this slate, and given the low number of people involved in the votes, if Qualified Individuals have a serious issue with this, just sound off and we can revisit it.
  • heatran really really really struggles with 4mss in this generation, offensive sets aren't particularly splashable, many of the pokemon it answers defensively aren't seeing as much usage, and it's prone to spikes. like landorus-t, the bulky offense frameworks you'd typically see it on have clearly fallen out of favor. it has seen some success on certain spikes builds (such as the northeast serperior one), but it has kinda proven to be more in line with A rank pokemon like garchomp and skarmory as far as splashable fatmons go.
  • torna has been seeing way more usage lately. people realized that you don't need to run absolutely perfect keldeo switch-ins if you build teams to handle it in alternative ways, and tornadus-t has facilitated that style of building. it's just a really great and splashable pivot that provides you with counterplay to many special attackers, mainly keldeo, mega alakazam, and volcarona (sorta but it's volcarona so like that's the best you're gonna get ok deal with it pietro). this pokemon's just fucking sick, ok. being able to knock clef is gang shit.
  • azu, bisharp, bullet punch mega metagross, tankchomp, av tornadus-t, and evenf ucking CRAWDAUNT have seen more usage lately. volca struggles as a result. in every other mu, it wins. also ppl started running stone edge max special defense heatran and rock slide max special defense gliscor for a bit. the pathetic 25% winrate in SPL shows that the matchup moth isn't getting that matchup 75% of the time.
  • magnezone's been seeing more and more success for a good while now, and it's been put on the slate multiple times, but every time there was a clear divide among the rankers, largely because ranking trappers is pretty tough. however, #3 in SPL usage does not lie (this isn't the only reason don't bring up excadrill ok). zone provides extremely reliable pressure to both spikes builds AND mega metagross (scarf), making it an extremely consistent pokemon in the tier. it alleviates a lot of pressure when building, especially considering how much of a pain mega metagross can be. kinda like what i mentioned with keldeo earlier, people don't run a perfect mmeta wall on every team, and they kinda never really have. it's sorta impossible to do, so having a core like magnezone + tankchomp allows you to pressure mega metagross sufficiently enough. zone support is just really appreciated in this tier.
  • mega scizor has been in a horrible place lately. not only has zone usage been INCREASING since the last time it dropped, but tankchomp is back as an extremely splashable glue mon, and wow scizor really does not like that. furthermore, mmeta has gotten even better, giving scizor a bit more competition than before. this pokemon is just not great anymore, sadly.
  • i don't have much to say on mega diancie. mega metagross existing is just a pain for it. not only is mmeta a great answer to it, but there isn't much reason to run diancie > mmeta on a lot of builds. yes, they do very different things, but mega slot competition is real, and on builds where you're running diancie, you might already have support to break annoying steels (zone, tankchomp, whatever) that mmeta can also tank advantage of while just being better and providing more utility with its amazing bulk and typing.
  • mega medicham ALSO faces competition from mmeta, and the types of builds that run it have really not seen any success in years now. spikes fuck this mon up.
  • garchomp is rising because of the tankchomp set. when it dropped, tankchomp wasn't really in favor, and we pretty much dropped it because sd and scarf sets are not that good, and tankchomp was not seeing any real usage. now... tankchomp is a big thing!. it gives you reliable counterplay to mega metagross and bisharp (among other things), a fire resist, and electric immunity, rocks.. what's not to love. clearly just been a great mon lately.
  • serperior is one of those ones that i personally feel was just wrongly ranked before. i don't think anything extreme has happened to warrant a rise, rather, it was just underrated before. one recent factor is teambuilding vs. keldeo with pokemon that pressure keld as i mentioned before.
  • bisharp's been booming lately. it saw pretty high usage and success in SPL, and it's kinda the face of the classic ORAS hyper offense (bisharp / thundy / azu / mmeta / tankchomp / lati) that has always been good but recently became arguably the most dominant team. people are starting to prepare for it now, which is why we're seeing a rise in tankchomp and other mons, but just this pressure of knowing you have to prep for it in builder is HUGE... this mon is a pain. it's just a really good, really consistent offensive wincon.
  • stall and semistall have been seeing more usage since the most recent stour poffs. mainly those ABR and TDK builds. this should've happened awhile ago, but i delayed the update until after SPL.
  • like bisharp, azumarill has been seeing a lot more usage and a lot more success than previously, specifically the BD set. it can completely plow through still popular fat teams, though it does definitely hate spikes. i kinda consider this one of those pendulum pokemon that falls off for a bit when people overprepare for it, but comes back and dominates when people think they're safe. we're on one of those azu is really good swings right now.
  • keld has declined a little bit, fat spikes frameworks that utilize this mon have declined a little bit, and bulky offense frameworks that utilize this mon have declined a little bit. it's just not as good as it was last year, but still a great option when the situation calls for it.
  • galvantula is a cool webs setter. s/outs italy.
any questions hmu.

edit: for the next update, i'm gonna focus on fixing B+ and below a bit. i think it's kinda inaccurate rn.
 
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With the end of WCOP, and seeing RBY OU and GSC OU adopting McMeghan ’s approach to the ADV OU viability rankings with vapicuno's analyses, I too conducted a survey on a subset of the ORAS playing community that have been active in the past year and the results are as seen. Big Thank You to ABR , Altina , Analytic , baddummy , Charmflash , Eo Ut Mortus , false , Gondra , jonfilch , KratosMana , le LLiolae , Lusa , Savouras , starry blanket , TDK , Will of Fire , yjh971203

In the same vein as Earthworm , I will detail the process used to come up with the rankings

Collection of data
Earthworm’s GSC rankings involved him setting up a Google form with each Pokemon from the old VR having their own question asking the user to enter the ranking number for that Pokemon. However, he noted that this method had flaws in that it “was quite awkward (the google form). It almost certainly caused a degree of bias due to people's desire to finish quickly and having to recall the numbers they had already entered”, and that “There were some cases where people ranked things the same rank accidentally”

In order to rectify these flaws, I instead setup a rank order survey on Surveymonkey. The survey forced all participants to arrange the 100 Pokemon that were already present in the current VR in order so no Pokemon would be missed out and it will be impossible for people to rank 2 different Pokemon the same rank.

I added two non-mandatory questions asking players if there were any Pokemon they think should be ranked if they weren’t already ranked, and if they thought that any Pokemon should be removed from the rankings.

Flaws:
-The sheer volume of viable Pokemon in ORAS makes it intimidating to rank, which might have contributed to fairly average player response
-There is no centralised discord server for ORAS that the other communities such as ADV or GSC have, so disseminating information to interested player base has to be done through Smogon PM, which can be clunky at times.
-We faced a similar problem to GSC OU in that the ability to meaningfully define a border for ranks below B based on averages + standard deviations is very limited. The divisions are therefore quite ambiguous.
-If i were to conduct these rankings again, I will allow the option to vote to exclude certain Pokemon from the rankings instead of asking as a separate question; I didn't know surveymonkey allowed this until Earthworm told me so it was an oversight on my part.
-Earthworm randomised the order of the Pokemon in later surveys he took for GSC Ubers to reduce a degree of bias. This will definitely be done in the future if conducted again.

Without further ado, here are the updated rankings

S Rank:

S1 Rank
01 :clefable: Clefable

S2 Rank
02 :metagross (mega): Metagross (Mega)

S3 Rank
03 :keldeo: Keldeo
04 :gliscor: Gliscor
05 :ferrothorn: Ferrothorn

A Rank:

A1 Rank
06 :Tornadus-Therian: Tornadus-T
07 :Slowbro (Mega): Slowbro (Mega)

A2 Rank
08 :Magnezone: Magnezone
09 :Excadrill: Excadrill
10 :Tyranitar: Tyranitar
11 :Heatran: Heatran

A3 Rank
12 :Rotom-Wash: Rotom-W
13 :Garchomp: Garchomp
14 :Landorus-Therian: Landorus-T
15 :Weavile: Weavile
16 :Alakazam (Mega): Alakazam (Mega)
17 :Latios: Latios

B Rank:

B1 Rank

18 :Bisharp: Bisharp
19 :Skarmory: Skarmory
20 :Azumarill: Azumarill
21 :Volcarona: Volcarona
22 :Serperior: Serperior
23 :Slowbro: Slowbro
24 :Scizor (Mega): Scizor (Mega)

B2 Rank
25 :Chansey: Chansey
26 :Amoonguss: Amoonguss
27 :Charizard (Mega-Y): Charizard (Mega-Y)
28 :Medicham (Mega): Medicham (Mega)
29 :Suicune: Suicune

B3 Rank
30 :Manaphy: Manaphy
31 :Diancie (Mega): Diancie (Mega)
32 :Thundurus: Thundurus
33 :Zapdos: Zapdos
34 :Lopunny (Mega): Lopunny (Mega)

B4 Rank
35 :Charizard (Mega-X): Charizard (Mega-X)
36 :Hydreigon: Hydreigon
37 :Jellicent: Jellicent
38 :Starmie: Starmie
39 :Latias (Mega): Latias (Mega)

C Rank:

C1 Rank

40 :Tangrowth: Tangrowth
41 :Alomomola: Alomomola
42 :Talonflame: Talonflame
43 :Pinsir (Mega): Pinsir (Mega)
44 :Volcanion: Volcanion
45 :Gastrodon: Gastrodon
46 :Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-B
47 :Heracross (Mega): Heracross (Mega)
48 :Manectric (Mega): Manectric (Mega)
49 :Kyurem: Kyurem

C2 Rank
50 :Tyranitar (Mega): Tyranitar (Mega)
51 :Crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
52 :Latias: Latias
53 :Altaria (Mega): Altaria (Mega)
54 :Gyarados (Mega): Gyarados (Mega)
55 :Jirachi: Jirachi
56 :Terrakion: Terrakion

D Rank:

D1 Rank

57 :Hippowdon: Hippowdon
58 :Venusaur (Mega): Venusaur (Mega)
59 :Nidoking: Nidoking
60 :Alakazam: Alakazam
61 :Mew: Mew
62 :Reuniclus: Reuniclus
63 :Quagsire: Quagsire
64 :Slowking: Slowking
65 :Gardevoir (Mega): Gardevoir (Mega)
66 :Breloom: Breloom
67 :Gengar: Gengar

D2 Rank
68 :Dragonite: Dragonite
69 :Gyarados: Gyarados
70 :Garchomp (Mega): Garchomp (Mega)
71 :Aerodactyl (Mega): Aerodactyl (Mega)
72 :Klefki: Klefki
73 :Mamoswine: Mamoswine
74 :Diggersby: Diggersby
75 :Gallade (Mega): Gallade (Mega)
76 :Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus-T
77 :Victini: Victini
78 :Togekiss: Togekiss

E Rank:

E1 Rank
79 :Politoed: Politoed
80 :Cofagrigus: Cofagrigus
81 :Kingdra: Kingdra
82 :Swampert (Mega): Swampert (Mega)
83 :Shuckle: Shuckle
84 :Kabutops: Kabutops

E2 Rank
85 :Dragalge: Dragalge
86 :Raikou: Raikou
87 :Galvantula: Galvantula
88 :Seismitoad: Seismitoad
89 :Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz
90 :Empoleon: Empoleon
91 :Sharpedo (Mega): Sharpedo (Mega)
92 :Tentacruel: Tentacruel
93 :Azelf: Azelf
94 :Pidgeot (Mega): Pidgeot (Mega)
95 :Cobalion: Cobalion
96 :Celebi: Celebi
97 :Scolipede: Scolipede
98 :Omastar: Omastar
99 :Sceptile (Mega): Sceptile (Mega)
100 :Beedrill (Mega): Beedrill (Mega)

Visual representations of results
vapicuno helped do a visual representation of everyone's results, including the old and new viability rankings. On the new VR Column, green indicates a rise, red indicates a drop and purple indicates that there is no change. The green and red in everyone's rankings indicate what they ranked higher (green) and lower (red) than the new VR.
1 - 25 Visuals.png

26 - 50 visuals.png

51 - 75 Visuals.png

76 - 100 Visuals.png

The graph below with standard deviations plotted on the averages was used to decide the subtiers above. Once again, thanks to vapicuno for helping me with this.

Scatter Plot.png


How the tiers are formed from the plot of average ranks and standard deviations
To quote vapicuno's post this methodology is based on the assumptions that
A1. Every mon in a tier should be mostly indistinguishable from any other in the same tier.
A2. Every mon in a tier should be convincingly distinguishable from every mon in another tier.

And mathematically, for reliability we require that

B1. Enough players contribute their VR, or outliers removed, so that the central limit theorem holds and ranking statistics can be treated as normal distributions. The standard deviation can thus be meaningful statistic.

Together, these premises require that

1. Within a tier, each mon has a ranking with standard deviation that stays within the mean (average) ranking,
2. At the transition from a higher to lower tier, the mean rankings will go from a overestimate to underestimate.
I will attempt to show how the Tiers and Subtiers are formed

Ranks 1-5.png


:clefable::metagross (mega)::keldeo::gliscor::ferrothorn:

Tier 1 is very well defined, with a near unanimous ranking of Clefable as #1. Clefable has stayed as the best Pokemon at ORAS for years due to its unparalleled role compression and general utility. At #2 Metagross (Mega), while clearly not in the same league as Clefable, there was a general consensus that this offensive behemoth is above the next 3 Pokemon. The next 3 Pokemon (Keldeo, Gliscor, Ferrothorn), there was more contention with different people ranking them in different orders, some even thinking these Pokemon should be ranked higher than Metagross. Hence, they have overlapping standard deviations. By coincidence, my rankings were the only rankings that had my top 5 Pokemon in the same order as the new VR. These 3 groups of Pokemon are clearly a cut above the remaining Pokemon in the tier and are tiered at S1, S2 and S3 respectively in the new VR.


Ranks 6 - 17.png

After the top 5, ranking bars became larger as there was more variance in the rankings with no Pokemon having a standard deviation lower than 2. There was a clear drop off from the 5th to the 6th ranked mon so a new tier is formed.

:Tornadus-Therian::Slowbro (Mega):
At ranks 6 and 7, we have Tornadus-Therian and Mega Slowbro. Tornadus-Therian had less contention, having a relatively low standard deviation. Tornadus-Therian generally only runs the Assault Vest set with little move variation;. However its access to utility Knock Off and U-turn, while soft checking many Pokemon makes it quite splashable and is probably the reason for its consistent rank. On the other hand, there was no clear consensus on the placement of Mega Slowbro but it still is by far the second best mega in the tier. These 2 Pokemon form the A1 tier.

:Magnezone::Excadrill::Tyranitar::Heatran:
The next group we have from ranks 8- 11. At number 8, Magnezone's high rank is a probably a testament to the strength of Mega Metagross and Ferrothorn. Being one of the few ways of generating chip on/revenging Mega Metagross and being able to remove Ferrothorn, Magnezone is a popular pick now. There was an increase in Excadrill's popularity due to it being one of the 2 reliable spinners in the OU metagame; both its mold breaker and sand rush sets provide a ton of utility due to the offensive presence and rapid spin. Tyranitar, one of the premier Pursuit trappers in the tier, and Heatran, one of the most consistent rockers round off this group to form the A2 tier.

:Rotom-Wash::Garchomp::Landorus-Therian::Weavile::Alakazam (Mega)::Latios:
Next tier is at 12 - 17. Rotom, Garchomp, Weavile and Mega Alakazam had fairly low standard deviations between 2.21 and 2.84, while Landorus-T and Latios had standard deviations at 4.91 and 4.68 respectively. Rotom-W's value is as a splashable pivot on Bulky Offense and some Balance teams, perhaps its rise into the top of this subtier is indicative of the fact that the metagame has became a bit more offensive.

There is very divisive opinion on Landorus-Therian and Latios compared to the other mons in this subtier. With Garchomp having largely replaced Landorus-T as the premier defensive ground type Stealth Rock setter, Landorus-T's main niche is in being one of the if not the best scarfer in the tier. Perhaps a player's ranking on Landorus-T is based on how much they value speed control in general in ORAS. Long gone are the days of Defog + Roost Life Orb Latios being the sole Keldeo check on teams, and Latios has continued to drop in rank.

These 6 Pokemon form the A3 tier.

18 - 39.png


:Bisharp::Skarmory::Azumarill::Volcarona::Serperior::Slowbro::Scizor (Mega):
While this group of Pokemon formerly formed the A- tier, there was a significant drop off from ranks 17 - 18. Latios was ranked at 16.64 on average, while Bisharp was ranked at 21.23. This significant drop off hence demarcates the start of the B Tier. Bisharp, Azumarill and Volcarona are 3 of the most dangerous setup sweepers that have the ability to sweep teams that position themselves poorly, and are definitely threats that have to be respected in the builder. Skarmory is the distant second best spiker in a tier infested with Magnezone, which forces it to run Shed Shell a lot. Serperior has a myriad of support moves like Glare, Knock Off. Regular Slowbro is one of the best bulky waters with Regenerator, checking Metagross, Keldeo and Gliscor while having access to a pretty solid movepool with multiple utility options. Despite the prevalence of TankChomp and Magnezone, Mega Scizor still remains the best full counter to Mega Metagross (unless you meet the infamous HPFire Meta :pikuh: ) that has access to good utility moves like Defog, Knock Off and U-Turn. While Pokemon in this subtier are all extremely potent threats that must be taken into account in the builder, they definitely feel in general less splashable than the Pokemon in the above tier, hence I don't find myself disagreeing with the voter pool indicating that these Pokemon should be in a different tier from the Pokemon above. These Pokemon form the B1 subtier.

:Chansey::Amoonguss::Charizard (Mega-Y)::Medicham (Mega)::Suicune:
At ranks 25 - 29, we meet what was generally agreed to be the 5th, and 6th best Megas in the game. Charizard Y and Mega Medicham are 2 strong archetype defining Pokemon that must be accounted for in the builder when opting to use a fatter team. Chansey, when partnered with her fellow fat Pokemon in a stallier team still remains a frustration for many offenses. Amoonguss has dropped a bit in popularity since the last VR. While it still remains a good check to Keldeo and Calm Mind Clefable, Spore, its main claim to fame, can become a dead move against Gliscor teams that manage to activate Gliscor's Toxic Orb. These Pokemon form the B2 Subtier.

:Manaphy::Diancie (Mega)::Thundurus::Zapdos::Lopunny (Mega):
Next we have ranks 30-34. There is a slight increase in ranking of Manaphy. Manaphy is one of the most dangerous Pokemon for a fat team to handle. Thundurus took a significant dip in rankings, as perhaps people realised that many team structures have a way to organically check it, limiting its usefulness. Mega Diancie, dropped a bit while Mega Lopuny and Zapdos remained more or less in the same place. This group forms the B3 Subtier.

:Charizard (Mega-X)::Hydreigon::Jellicent::Starmie::Latias (Mega):
Next we have ranks 35-39. Something to note is the increase in the ranks of Jellicent. Jellicent first gained popularity in modern ORAS after CBB debuted it in SPL 9. Its viability at that time was met with skepticism from some people as they did not buy into the hype. Now, almost 2 years after that, Jellicent has cemented its place in the metagame with it rising 11 ranks from the old VR. Something interesting to me is that Starmie did not trend downwards with the increase in popularity of Jellicent. Toxic Starmie does not seem to be very popular in ORAS now, and with the increasing popularity of Jelli, I would expect that Starmie's ranking continues to drop as it is a less reliable spinner. This group forms the B4 subtier and rounds off the B tier.



40-56.png

:Tangrowth::Alomomola::Talonflame::Pinsir (Mega)::Volcanion::Gastrodon::Kyurem-Black::Heracross (Mega)::Manectric (Mega)::Kyurem:
The next significant drop in rank was between Mega Latias and Tangrowth. Mega Latias was ranked at 39.67 while Tangrowth was ranked at 43.67. There larger drop between the aforementioned Pokemon as compared to the previous difference in subtiers means that a new tier should be formed rather than a subtier. Tangrowth in particular received a significant increase in ranking, and I attribute this to the popularity of its Rocky Helmet set, which allows it to chip Mega Metagross throughout the game. This group from 40 - 49 forms the C1 subtier.

:Tyranitar (Mega)::Crawdaunt::Latias::Altaria (Mega)::Gyarados (Mega)::Jirachi::Terrakion:
The next group from ranks 50 - 56 include two Megas that were considered fringe options for a large part of ORAS. Mega Tyranitar, which rose 20 ranks in the rankings, was used by CBB and Nintendi in WCOP to strong wins, showing that both Stealth Rock and Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar are threats that should not be taken lightly in the current metagame. There was also a resurgence in Mega Altaria, a Pokemon that has barely seen tour usage since the first 6 months of ORAS. Most players who use Mega Altaria in recent tours use it on stallier builds with Dragon Dance and Heal Bell so it can free up a slot on Chansey. Definitely, Mega Altaria's increase in ranking is justified. This group forms the C2 subtier.



57-78.png

D1 Rank
:Hippowdon::Venusaur (Mega)::Nidoking::Alakazam::Mew::Reuniclus::Quagsire::Slowking::Gardevoir (Mega)::Breloom::Gengar:
At 57 - 67, we see Pokemon that while definitely viable, are only situationally effective and require more a modicum of team support to reach their full potential. Quagsire and Slowking in particular, have significantly higher tournament usage compared to the rest of this subtier that belies their low ranking. Mega Gardevoir continues to fall in grace, with it dropping from 56 - 65. Although it boasts one of the strongest nukes in the form of STAB Pixilate Hyper Voice, the current metagame run by Mega Metagross has not been kind to it, which is probably the reason why it has been dropping in ranking every subsequent VR. These Pokemon form the D1 subtier.

D2
:Dragonite::Gyarados::Garchomp (Mega)::Aerodactyl (Mega)::Klefki::Mamoswine::Diggersby::Gallade (Mega)::Thundurus-Therian::Victini::Togekiss:
While I was initially unsure on where to draw the line, with vapicuno's help, the boundary was drawn between 67 - 68. In my humble opinion, the Pokemon here are fringe enough that they can be considered rarely seen in ORAS. These Pokemon form the D2 subtier

79 - 100.png


:Politoed::Cofagrigus::Kingdra::Swampert (Mega)::Shuckle::Kabutops:
:Dragalge::Raikou::Galvantula::Seismitoad::Mandibuzz::Empoleon::Sharpedo (Mega)::Tentacruel::Azelf::Pidgeot (Mega)::Cobalion::Celebi::Scolipede::Omastar::Sceptile (Mega)::Beedrill (Mega):
Finally, we reach the E Ranks at 79 - 100. The Pokemon here are generally those that fulfill a niche, albeit inconsistently. Most rankers will probably be pretty fatigued once they reach the tail end of the rankings and hence generally leave the Pokemon in the same order as the original viability rankings with a few exceptions. Cofagrigus, Shuckle and Seismitoad in particular have large error bars, indicating that perhaps they have more utility than what their rankings here represent. I have divided ranks 79 - 84 into Tier E1 while 85 - 100 is at Tier E2.

Sorry for the wait, hope everyone enjoyed looking at the results. Raw data is available here I welcome any discussion from anyone if they disagree with anything I have said.
 
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big thanks to altina for doing all the stats stuff. he will be hosting this with me in case that wasn't clear. i will update the OP soon.

our plan moving forward is to do 2 major updates each year: 1 after WCoP, and 1 after SPL. these will be surveyed like this one was with a stats approach. after each stour season, we will do smaller, informal updates, similar to what i did in the past. think of these as clean ups. let us know what you think (:
 
Yo this looks great. Honestly impressive work, very detailed!
I wish in the future we maybe get to organise an actual community for people who enjoy ORAS like the rest of the gens are.
Maybe a Discord Channel for ORAS, an actual voting council and somewhere to discuss things about our favourite Generation, showing and building teams, helping people who do want to learn the gen and things like that.
Again really nice work even if my boy Medicham is still B, i need to continue putting people down using it till it reaches the top! :D
 
i finally had some time to implement the ranks and update the rules and procedure in the OP. i also want to take note of some points of interest and (hopefully) spark some discussion:

:tyranitar-mega:: i was really surprised to see mega tyranitar not rising alllll that much. while 20 spots is pretty significant, it becomes less significant when you realize how low mega tyranitar was ranked to begin with. there was a time when mega tyranitar was among the lowest ranked pokemon, many of which were being removed from the VR completely. i personally would love to see it rise to C1. i think it's on the same level of viability as megas like manectric and heracross, though at the same time, it probably isn't that much more viable than mega altaria.. regardless, it will be interesting to see if mega tyranitar is just a fad or a fairly significant metagame force. while ORAS is pretty old and somewhat stagnant now, we did see this happen not too long ago with jellicent, whose rise in ranking reflects its position in the tier as a general glue mon on fat builds.

:clefable::metagross-mega::keldeo::gliscor::ferrothorn:: these 5 have clearly cemented themselves as the big 5 of the tier for at least 2 years now in the cases of clefable, mega metagross, and keldeo, and for at least a year in the cases of gliscor and ferrothorn. i find it interesting how with the way the new rankings were formed, we ended up with all five of them in S rank. what's especially interesting about this is that in many private discussions about the VR prior to this new approach, keldeo dropping from S to A+ and ferrothorn and gliscor rising from A+ to S were brought up pretty frequently. we also discussed potentially adding an S- rank for those 3 with mega metagross and clefable at S rank. things kinda worked out this way... except clefable is on a level of its own. looking at the votes really solidifies how dominant clefable is, with all but 3 voters putting it in the #1 spot.

E rank: due to the way players were surveyed, it was hard to gauge whether we should even bother ranking many of these pokemon. looking at the rankings, i think it is clear that pretty much every pokemon here is irrelevant in regards to what the VR is trying to accomplish, and i think having a survey question specifically asking about which of these pokemon should be axed is worth looking into for the next update. in E1, you see many cheese staples: rain pokemon, shuckle for webs, and cofag. i think these pokemon are fine being ranked, but i don't see them as much lower than many of the pokemon in D2 personally. i especially feel that shuckle could go much higher in the rankings since webs has become somewhat relevant over the past year. i think all of the pokemon in E2 are atrocious and worth removing from the rankings completely.

regarding the way ranking was handled: many players expressed concern about how long it takes to rank every pokemon individually, or how they only wanted to rank especially relevant pokemon (such as those in B rank and above). i think for the next update we should emphasize this option and put ranking the lower ranked pokemon on the back burner as an additional activity for those who care about it. i've said for a long time that i think after a certain point, there is a steep decline in the viability of pokemon in this tier, and i think that is reflected really well in the new rankings when you look at C rank (maybe D rank) and below.
 
will be doing a small update after stour finals. as mentioned during the last update, i'm just going to be doing a small and informal update that doesn't involve surveying the playerbase. some pokemon i plan on including in the discussion slate are ditto, shuckle, hoopa-c, mega tyranitar, gliscor, excadrill, tornadus-t, ferrothorn, skarmory, rotom-w, tangrowth, mega slowbro... this list is not final, so if there are any other pokemon you think should be included, please post saying so.
Crawdaunt deserves more love, rank it 2 next to clef.......... totally jk but it deserves more than its current ranking imo. If you want me to post my reasonings why Craw should be ranked higher I can, but if you were planning on doing an update and asking for suggestions then here it is.
 
SPL ORAS Cumulative Usage
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Clefable           |   41 |  45.56% |  41.46% |
| 2    | Tornadus-Therian   |   36 |  40.00% |  44.44% |
| 3    | Excadrill          |   33 |  36.67% |  54.55% |
| 4    | Metagross          |   26 |  28.89% |  42.31% |
| 5    | Rotom-Wash         |   23 |  25.56% |  56.52% |
| 6    | Gliscor            |   21 |  23.33% |  38.10% |
| 7    | Tyranitar          |   20 |  22.22% |  45.00% |
| 7    | Magnezone          |   20 |  22.22% |  40.00% |
| 9    | Keldeo             |   18 |  20.00% |  38.89% |
| 9    | Ferrothorn         |   18 |  20.00% |  38.89% |
| 11   | Slowbro            |   17 |  18.89% |  47.06% |
| 12   | Garchomp           |   15 |  16.67% |  60.00% |
| 13   | Landorus-Therian   |   14 |  15.56% |  42.86% |
| 13   | Latias             |   14 |  15.56% |  42.86% |
| 15   | Bisharp            |   13 |  14.44% |  61.54% |
| 16   | Serperior          |   12 |  13.33% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Scizor             |   12 |  13.33% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Heatran            |   12 |  13.33% |  41.67% |
| 19   | Latios             |   11 |  12.22% |  36.36% |
| 20   | Weavile            |   10 |  11.11% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Tangrowth          |   10 |  11.11% |  40.00% |
| 22   | Azumarill          |    8 |   8.89% |  87.50% |
| 23   | Chansey            |    7 |   7.78% |  71.43% |
| 23   | Charizard          |    7 |   7.78% |  42.86% |
| 25   | Alakazam           |    6 |   6.67% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Altaria            |    6 |   6.67% |  66.67% |
| 27   | Zapdos             |    5 |   5.56% |  80.00% |
| 27   | Shuckle            |    5 |   5.56% |  80.00% |
| 27   | Manaphy            |    5 |   5.56% |  60.00% |
| 27   | Quagsire           |    5 |   5.56% |  60.00% |
| 27   | Skarmory           |    5 |   5.56% |  40.00% |
| 27   | Gastrodon          |    5 |   5.56% |  20.00% |
| 33   | Thundurus          |    4 |   4.44% | 100.00% |
| 33   | Suicune            |    4 |   4.44% |  75.00% |
| 33   | Hoopa              |    4 |   4.44% |  75.00% |
| 33   | Diancie            |    4 |   4.44% |  50.00% |
| 33   | Volcarona          |    4 |   4.44% |  50.00% |
| 33   | Lopunny            |    4 |   4.44% |  50.00% |
| 33   | Starmie            |    4 |   4.44% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Mew                |    3 |   3.33% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Crawdaunt          |    3 |   3.33% |  66.67% |
| 40   | Talonflame         |    3 |   3.33% |  33.33% |
| 40   | Alomomola          |    3 |   3.33% |  33.33% |
| 44   | Heracross          |    2 |   2.22% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Jellicent          |    2 |   2.22% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Pinsir             |    2 |   2.22% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Dragonite          |    2 |   2.22% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Hippowdon          |    2 |   2.22% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Volcanion          |    2 |   2.22% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Gyarados           |    2 |   2.22% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Medicham           |    2 |   2.22% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Thundurus-Therian  |    2 |   2.22% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Breloom            |    2 |   2.22% |   0.00% |
| 54   | Ninetales          |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Venusaur           |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Xatu               |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Seismitoad         |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Togekiss           |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Amoonguss          |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Gengar             |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Masquerain         |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Raikou             |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Chesnaught         |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Jirachi            |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Politoed           |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Swampert           |    1 |   1.11% | 100.00% |
| 54   | Roserade           |    1 |   1.11% |   0.00% |
| 54   | Ditto              |    1 |   1.11% |   0.00% |
| 54   | Slowking           |    1 |   1.11% |   0.00% |
| 54   | Celebi             |    1 |   1.11% |   0.00% |
| 54   | Victini            |    1 |   1.11% |   0.00% |
| 54   | Manectric          |    1 |   1.11% |   0.00% |
| 54   | Nidoking           |    1 |   1.11% |   0.00% |
There's a lot of information to draw out of this and there's still information that hasn't been updated from ST28.
The current rankings are long outdated and the ranking system doesn't fit oras very well. Most of the mons from A-2 to B-3 can't really be seperated in terms of viability, aside from the outliers that are either way better than they're ranked (e.g. Weavile) or way worse (e.g. Suicune). Same applies to B3-C2. It's not only easier but also more accurate to increase the size of the subranks in A and B. Obviously the metagame has changed a lot over the past few years but ORAS is still very much ORAS and the way VR's have worked for the longest time were accurately representing the metagame. Examples of increased subranks in the spoiler below (VR 2017)


Size of A- and B are obviously too big but size of A+ and A is what we should be aiming for.
The current ranks we have are S1, S2, S3. A1, A2, A3. B1, B2, B3, B4. C1, C2. D1, D2. E1, E2.
By the end of organizing these we should be able to cut the whole D and E section and move around a lot in the midranks, pokemon like Latias, Mega Tar, Tangrowth, Talonflame and more have no business being anywhere near C.
For that to happen I'm going to propose changes to S-rank first and then go from there. Join the discussion.

S-RANK

S-1 :clefable: Clefable
S-2 :Gliscor: Gliscor, :Metagross-Mega: Metagross-mega
S-3 :Keldeo: Keldeo, :Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn, :Tornadus-Therian: Tornadus-T, :Excadrill: Excadrill, :Rotom-Wash: Rotom-Wash
[pokemon listed in their respective subranks in no particular order]

:Gliscor: Gliscor: S3->S2
This rise should occur. When building this pokemon is just as restricting as Clefable. Status Immunity after activating Toxic Orb, incredible bulk on both defensive ends, insanely high speed for a defensive pokemon, access to Swords Dance, a powerful STAB in EQ, dangerous coverage moves like Facade, Ice Fang, Knock Off and Rock Slide and Utility moves in Roost and Taunt all contribute to Gliscor wide array of possible sets. Depending on how you choose to place your EVs Gliscor is able to achieve different things as well. Gliscor dominated ORAS for the entirety of 2019 and reached it's peak at the end of WCoP and Smogon Tour 28. It's winrate in SPL XI has been lackluster but that's been caused by the fact that a huge amount of teams went out of their way to counterteam Gliscor in every possible way. Doesn't improve Gliscor's viability but it's pressure in teambuilder alone is big enough to create openings for the partners it battles alongside with. Example: Enemy Slowbro has to run Ice Beam or it's in major danger to just get overwhelmed by Gliscor in the long run. Enemy Slowbro thus can't run Psyshock, meaning that your corepartner Clefable's odds to beat Slowbro in a CM war skyrocket. Gliscor's incredible possibilites, consistence and pressure should be reflected in the VR, thus it should be moved up by one subrank.

:tornadus-therian: Tornadus-T: A1->S3
Tornadus is S-tier worthy. The av set is the best pivot of the generation, it checks threatening special attackers like Keldeo, Latios, Alakazam, Gengar and Serperior but most importantly it's able to gain momentum in any battle thus allowing your corepartners to thrive. It's wide array of coverage and utility moves being U-Turn, Knock Off, Heat Wave, Smack Down and HP Ice along with it's powerful Hurricane STAB allow it to pressure most Pokemon in ORAS OU resulting in even more pressure which if used correctly always leads to even more momentum. In fact av torn is so good that it's hard to find reason to run special attackers that can't damage it more than it heals with it's regenerator ability. It's mixed attack offenses, it's superb speed tier, it's movepool and it's ability to enable whatever breaker you're running with it is unique and metagame defining. Raising it to S3 from A1 is only appropiate.

:Excadrill: Excadrill: A2->S3
SPL XI 36.57% Usage and 54.55% Winrate is insane. ST28 Excadrill was the second most used after Clefable in the qualification phase and still managed to have a narrowly positive winrate. ST28 Playoffs Excadrill was the second most used yet again, 57% winrate. It's easily been the best performing pokemon in the last 5 months. Excadrill is the best hazard control of the tier, is able to run a multitude of sets, ev spreads, items and somewhat attacks effectively. Bonkers 135 attacking stat let it hit hard even if not invested at all. Excadrill is the best offensive switchin to Clefable and gains mileage out of switching in by removing hazards or setting up rocks itself. It's immune to poison and paralysis, threatens opposing defogers with toxic or sd but it's main selling point really is abusing clefable and removing rocks reliably if paired with teammates that either help remove spinblocks or threaten the opposing hazard setters that Excadrill itself can't beat. Furthermore it's synergy with other amazing pokemon is through the roof, Tyranitar's Sandstorm allows it to become the best revenger in the tier and if paired with Rotom-Wash it wins the hazard war easily against spikes teams. I already made a post on this here. The combination of it's synergy with others of the topplaced pokemon, it's ability to pull off various threatening sets ranging from Sand Rush Sd to full SpDef Mold Breaker effectively, all of them being similarly threatening to different styles of teams and it being the best hazard remover in a tier where rocks and spikes are incredibly good should warrant it S3-Tier. All the numbers are supporting this decisively.

:rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash: A3->S3
The last change to S-tier that should definitly happen. It's for sure the lowest ranking member of this group but at the same time it's characteristics set it apart from anything that's ranked lower than S-tier. Fifth most in usage of SPLXI and the highest winrate of all of the top 10 being 56.52% is something CrashinBoomBang can smile about. Depicts how good Godtom is. In ST28 regular season it again managed to have a positive winrate of 53.42% which AGAIN was the highest winrate at the top but this time not only top10 but top15 as you can see here. The trend continues in playoffs where it's the third most used pokemon and grabs itself a winrate of 75%. Tracing back to WCoP 2019 it again had the highest winrate of the top10, only shaired with tyranitar but way above anything else as you can see here. Rotom-Wash has consistently been the best pokemon in ORAS OU for a year. It's best set and main selling point is it's ability to cripple anything with WoW or gain momentum of it by using volt-switch not only dishing out respectable chip damage time after time but obviously gaining momentum out of it. It's the second best pivot of the generation only ranking below torn in this regard but what Rotom-W offers as a whole is superior to what Tornadus does. Rotom-W handles physical and special attackers all the same depending on what you invest in, beats threatening mid-range physical attackers by outspeeding and crippling them. Depending on what appears to be threatening to your team you can switch up speed and defenses in any way you want and you have the freedom to run thunder wave whenever you want to as well. Furthermore it's synergy with and/or it's ability to beat the other S-Ranks of ORAS OU is unparalleled by anything that is not ranked in S-Rank. Rotom-Wash HAS to be s-ranked to accurately represent the tier and every single number of all the recent past tournaments is backing it up.


That's it for the S-Ranks. These 8 Pokemon stand above the rest of the metagame and it has to be reflected in the Viability Rankings. Rotom-W and Excadrill both have absolutely dominated the tournaments of the past year and Tornadus-T and Gliscor were long overdue for a rise. This thread's been abandoned for the longest time but let's make it so we accurately present our metagame and tier to newcomers and interested people.
Good day stay safe
 
this tier is a mess. i suggest banning all of these as they are clearly just net negatives for the game. i've never read that aldaron post tho. nominating all of them for S* rank so this fits

Regenerator
Scald
Drizzle

Mega-Meta
Mega-Lop
Both Mega-Zards
Mega-Pinsir
Mega-Medicham

Clefable and Mega-Sciz are better than all of these overall but not overpowered. Mega-Hera is stupid but speed holds it back

and the first suspect test is Knock Off
 
i lied about doing an update before but this time i'm serious...

next update sometime shortly or a long time after this post hits 5 likes. just five.
an update on the status of the update:

i surveyed the ORAS playerbase (~40-50 people, mostly tournament players) after SPL. the plan was to do a statistics-based update just like we did after last WCoP, as this is how the community requested we handle the updates moving forward. this time, however, we were only surveying the playerbase on the top 20 pokemon in the tier. from there, we had established an informal council to group the pokemon based on the average of these rankings. the lower ranks were going to be handled completely internally. this approach would still have the benefits of the statistics based approach, but with a lot less work both for Altina and for the players who choose to submit their rankings.

unfortunately, we only received rankings from ~12 people after a month of waiting. this is not sufficient enough to do rankings by survey. given that it has been so long since the last update, and given that there is clearly not much interest in the massive amount of work that goes into the statistics based approach, i have decided to go back to how i previously ran the thread: i will assemble an informal "council" of some of the top ORAS players who show genuine interest in the tier, and from there we will handle the rankings internally. for transparency: the group handling the upcoming update will be ABR, Trosko, Persephone, and myself. we may add a few others if there is interest. since we do have some slates, i have taken them into consideration when proposing the discussion points for this next update, which will come out shortly after stour playoffs conclude.

this is the same way i originally ran the thread, and given the amount of diversity in ORAS (compared to the other oldgens), i have always thought this approach is more efficient for ORAS. also, the previous rankings sort of set a new scale for how we define the rankings... the rankings sort of shifted down. this will be corrected with the new rankings, so expect to see a more traditional looking VR, similar to what you can see for SS or SM.

thank you all for your patience. i care about getting these updates out in a timely manner, and i hope these changes (rather, reversions) to how the thread is ran can help to get things out quicker while still maintaining high quality.
 
S Rank

:clefable: Clefable

S- Rank

:metagross-mega: Metagross-Mega
:gliscor: Gliscor

A+ Rank
:keldeo: Keldeo
:ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:tornadus-therian: Tornadus-T
:excadrill: Excadrill
:rotom-wash: Rotom-W

A Rank
:magnezone: Magnezone
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:garchomp: Garchomp
:heatran: Heatran
:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega
:skarmory: Skarmory

A- Rank
:landorus-therian: Landorus-T
:weavile: Weavile
:latios: Latios
:scizor-mega: Scizor-Mega
:alakazam-mega: Alakazam-Mega
:chansey: Chansey
:latias-mega: Latias-Mega
:Tangrowth: Tangrowth

B+ Rank
:Altaria-mega: Altaria-Mega
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss
:Azumarill: Azumarill
:Bisharp: Bisharp
:charizard-mega-y: Charizard-Mega-Y
:gastrodon: Gastrodon
:jellicent: Jellicent
:medicham-Mega: Medicham-Mega
:serperior: Serperior
:Suicune: Suicune
:Thundurus: Thundurus
:Tyranitar-mega: Tyranitar-Mega
:Volcarona: Volcarona
:zapdos: Zapdos

B Rank
:alomomola: Alomomola
:Charizard-mega-x: Charizard-Mega-X
:crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:diancie-mega: Diancie-Mega
:Heracross-Mega: Heracross-Mega
:hydreigon: Hydreigon
:latias: Latias
:Latios-mega: Latios-Mega
:lopunny-mega: Lopunny-Mega
:Manaphy: Manaphy
:Pinsir-Mega: Pinsir-Mega
:reuniclus: Reuniclus
:starmie: Starmie
:talonflame: Talonflame

B- Rank
:breloom: Breloom
:Dragonite: Dragonite
:gyarados-mega: Gyarados-Mega
:jirachi: Jirachi
:Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-B
:quagsire: Quagsire
:shuckle: Shuckle
:slowking: Slowking
:Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus-T
:volcanion: Volcanion

C+ Rank
:alakazam: Alakazam
:gardevoir-mega: Gardevoir-Mega
:gengar: Gengar
:gyarados: Gyarados
:hippowdon: Hippowdon
:kyurem: Kyurem
:mamoswine: Mamoswine
:manectric-mega: Manectric-Mega
:mew: Mew
:terrakion: Terrakion
:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega

C Rank
:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega
:cofagrigus: Cofagrigus
:diggersby: Diggersby
:gallade-mega: Gallade-Mega
:garchomp-mega: Garchomp-Mega
:seismitoad: Seismitoad
:victini: Victini

C- Rank
:azelf: Azelf
:celebi: Celebi
:dragalge: Dragalge
:empoleon: Empoleon
:kabutops: Kabutops
:kingdra: Kingdra
:klefki: Klefki
:politoed: Politoed
:sharpedo-mega: Sharpedo-Mega
:swampert-mega: Swampert-Mega
:tentacruel: Tentacruel
:togekiss: Togekiss
update is finally here. there were some personal complications with those who were helping with the update, so we apologize about how long it took to get out! thanks Trosko ABR and Persephone for their input. also, IPF will be the new host of the thread.

this update was a complete overhaul of the rankings. the stats based rankings sort of skewed things in an unnatural way, especially when you look at the way ranks were distributed prior to that update (and when you look at most other VRs). as stated before, we are ditching the stats based approach due to lack of interest and an excessive amount of work being required. from now on, we will go back to having a small group of the best ORAS players (and me) decide the rankings internally. we care most about getting these updates to you all in a timely and effective manner, so this is the best way to move forward.

i won't comment too much on the update itself since there were so many changes, but i think many of them should be self explanatory. please note, only the A and S ranks are ordered by viability. B+ and below is alphabetical.

i have enjoyed hosting this resource for the last few years. i will still be around to oversee things, but i hope during the time i was host of this i provided you guys with an effective and useful resource. enjoy!
 
Thanks for the recent update, rankings look a lot cleaner now, especially the top ranks. I'm here to propose some changes for mostly B- and C-ranks, please have a look

:skarmory:A -> A-
Skarmory is good but it's not Tyranitar Garchomp Heatran good. Spikes are very strong but skarm wants three items, being lefties, rocky helmet and shed shell and it also wants more attacking moves than it can fit, being counter/ihead/bb while three slots are always taken by spikes roost ww. It's not splashable either

:Scizor-mega:A- -> A
Scizor-Mega is good and it's Tyranitar Garchomp Heatran good. Offensive SD is the mainreason why webs are as terrifying and as good as they are. Scizor-Mega is played on HO, on BO, on Balance and on Stall. The regular bulky sd uturn sets still get neglected and any bulky offense that doesn't have a rocky helmet user will struggle, even if there's a magnezone because you won't be able to punish the uturns. Furthermore cores like Ferro Scizor exist so ferro knocks off the scarf and 240 speed Scizor superpowers zone into oblivion. Scizor-Mega is sick, let's show it in the rankings

:Chansey:A- -> B+
Only viable on stall, it's good but also fears ever-so-popular knock off, hates hazards and does nothing against most clefable/gliscor teams. Should be dropped by one subrank to the likes of amoonguss and jellicent

:diancie-mega:B -> B+
Diancie is such a good mega, it's a mainstay in tournaments. It should really be somewhere in the A-/B+ range.

:latios-mega:(latios)B -> C+
how did latios-mega end up in B after the update? C+ if you actually found a reason for it to be played otherwise it should drop to C to where Gallade-Mega is ranked

:manaphy:B -> B+
manaphy has been a mainstay on hyper offense teams and can comfortably be played on balance and bulky offense as well. Ranking it with the likes of Volcarona, Thundurus-I and Suicune makes much more sense to me

:slowking:B- -> C+
Slowking generally is a worse slowbro. The main reason to use slowking over slowbro is to increase your chances against some special attackers but now that you almost always pair slowbro with torn-t and would still have to do so if you ran slowking, some of the reason to ever run it has disappeared. It's still usable but ranking it with mew and alakazam should depict it's current place in the metagame better

:gyarados:C+ -> C
I like gyara but it shouldn't be the same subrank as gardevoir-mega, kyurem or mew. There's exactly one set that makes gyara decent which is subdd bounce but it's still hard to fit on teams and getting set up is extremely hard against a meta filled with rotom-w and tankchomps. You either get the occasional 6-0 or you're mostly useless which leaves you in an unfortunate position

:Mamoswine:C+ -> C
Mamoswine is really hard to build with. It hasn't put up results in forever. It does have the potential to be really threatening but so does diggersby and I think the mons are very similar in what they do. If you try to get rocks up you usually sacrifice a lot of your health or your entire momentum. In Smogon Tour 28 I went to finals on the last saturday tour I believe with a banded thrash mamoswine which actually dents rotom-w. But yeah I think it fits much better to C where it's buddy Diggersby though chills

:garchomp-mega:C -> B-
Garchomp-Mega is terribly underrated. Not quite how underrated Mega-TTar once was but it's really decent and gives you consistent results. There are multiple sets you can run, Rocks-3-Atks, Sub-SD, SD-3-Atks and you can switch up your coverage options depending on what your team wants. For example you're able to run edge if you pair it with zone. The 328 speed Benchmark isn't as important as it once was. The added bulk from the mega evolution adds a lot of one-time-counterplay to your team since it tanks hits from pokemon such as bisharp and volcarona a lot better. Also don't forget the sand builds that abuse sand force as mega ability. Ranking it together with Breloom, Dragonite and Kyurem-B feels logical

:togekiss:C- -> C
Togekiss is pretty good at dismantling some clefable/gliscor teams and tankchomp bulky offenses that don't have rotom-w to get free momentum out of togekiss. You have to have a plan against metagross-mega so toge pairs up well with scizor as persephone showcased last SPL. It's still got plenty of problems but putting it into the same subrank as victini and mamoswine makes sense while it's definitly a notch above C- anyway

:raikou:UR -> C
Raikou's choice specs set is really terrifying for Metagross bo's to deal with since clicking the correct move usually means a kill. While specs alone should warrant C it can also run SubCM and more importantly screens. I used screens raikou in SPL w6 to defeat perse and it generally works the same way as screens serperior does. Overall it should definitly have a place on the ranking and C feels appropiate

:hoopa:UR -> C
Hoopa got usage in recent tours because it's able to spinblock and actually performs better than gengar in some matchups. Scarf trick also lets it cripple mons on fat teams and getting trapped by ttar/weavile isn't necessarily a bad thing since the type of teams it gets usage on want to use a pursuit-lock as set-up opportunity to facilitate a sweep. Scarf hoopa can also be really hard to handle if rocks are up and you've got no ghost resist which is usually the case on mmeta tornt bo's which means you're most likely forced to sack something.
 
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One of the mons that I think are a bit debatable, but is still placed in a great spot is Volcarona. I could see its potential being in A- tier, but typically Volcarona is heavily team reliant with the need for removing rocks, along with its list of counters thanks to it's x4 weakness to rocks along with x2 weakness to banded aquajets, galewings bravebirds, status, and chansey. It's one of those mons where I do see the weaknesses, but the pro's definitely outweigh the cons with the correct team build. The most popular sets being Quiver, (fireblast/fierydance), bugbuzz and giga drain provides it with the potential to sweep numerous teams, especially those that lack Heatran, or a decent phaser (dtail garchomp). Torn can pivot, but can't really threaten after +1 with rocks up, since LO fireblast has a 75% to KO, not to mention it cant revenge kill. Tyranitar is a solid threat, but without hp/spdef invest, it can't safely switch-in on quiver. Lum Berry is also a viable option, especially if your opponents main counter are twave users (the only really reliable twave counters being clef/starmie/chansey), or allowing you to quiver twice to secure KO's on the rest of your opponents team with ease.
 
Exactly what i was thinkin, Volcarona has been puttin way to much work lately and its an A- threat that probably should have been included or be in the next ones.
Other than that I still agree with most of the changes above, not sure about the C ones and how they were decided like for example Raikou Gyarados Mamoswine and Togekiss still having that 0 usage they always had.

medicham.png
 
I know I commented months ago regarding Crawdaunts rank but it was prior to the update. I would still probably suggest Crawdaunt in B+ tier, since its speed is the only real thing holding it back. Nothing safely switches into CB Crawdaunt, except for Mega Altaria to my knowledge. I think the reasoning though for it being in B tier though, is due to Rotom, and other mons that are easily able to voltswitch to KO, but honestly stall teams almost never stand a chance if Craw is used. I mean, when facing sand teams, you could send crawdaunt in vs drill, and force switches. Most opponents fear banded Aqua Jet, and try pivoting into Rotom/Keldeo/Amoongus/Ferrothorn, but neither take a banded Knockoff well. It's more of the mindgame factor of predicting, and figuring out what your opponent is willing to sack. If you guess incorrectly, you're punished pretty hard. It's definitely a mon worthy of being known for risk vs reward.
 
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Hello, first time contributing to such a discussion, so I should add that I've gotten 1500+ elo on ORAS OU, as well as winning 2 ORAS OU tour nights (I've only gotten into competitive ORAS OU quite recently 2 months ago so I'm not super well decorated yet)

The list seems pretty representative, although I personally feel that:

:skarmory: A -> A-

As a wall like in skarm/blob defensive cores, I feel it's ability to wall physical mons in general is lacking given the recent developments in the metagame. It can only really check (set-up) sweepers that it has an innate resistance to like :Pinsir-Mega: and :metagross-mega:
For other wallbreakers, skarm fails to avoid the 2HKO especially after rocks
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb :Bisharp: Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 251-296 (75.1 - 88.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Pure Power :Medicham-Mega: High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 220-261 (65.8 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band :Tyranitar: Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 156-184 (46.7 - 55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This is important because bisharp-megagross/mpinsir cores are pretty common, and if skarm gets KO'd, the sweeper gets to sweep. Conversely, if something were to switch in place of skarm (but why?), the switch in will unlikely stomach the hit well and will likely get KO'd too, which allows the wallbreaker to be used as a wincon if needed. Additionally, unless it is running shed shell, it gets trapped and KO'd by :Magnezone:

As a spikes setter, :ferrothorn: is generally better than it. Ferro has good mixed bulk and the only thing that threatens it are fire type coverage and fighting type moves from a strong attacker/STAB moves. Spikes skarm mostly has a linear choice of moveset so it is extremely easy to counter, not to mention that the most common spinner :excadrill: can easily stomach anything skarm throws at it and spins all hazards away. Ferrothorn has iron barbs to punish rapid spin as well, which is an added plus. Ferrothorn can also run knock off to remove utility items which cripples opposing pokemon. Ferrothorn fares better against :Diancie-Mega: compared to skarmory.

:bisharp: B+ -> A-
As mentioned above, nothing can really switch into a +2 knock off from bisharp. If it gets +2 via defiant (webs/defog), it can immediately start sweeping with the dreaded combination of sucker punch and knock off/iron head. Forcing sucker punch mind games generally forces the other party to predict correctly or lose, since even something like specs :latios: doesn't OHKO bisharp even after rocks. In addition to that, bisharp can fit on many offensive team archetypes and its not that difficult to build around it. It beats :clefable: 1v1, and checks mgross with sucker punch, in addition to heavily pressuring :gliscor: (which is why recently glisc runs 56 spe EVs solely to outspeed max investment adamant bisharp), and other walls in general. It's main drawback is its overreliance on sucker punch, but as of now I don't see things like subCM :keldeo: or even sub users in general, so I wouldn't overly press down on bisharp's key strength in the form of checking defog (by forcing the opponent to choose between getting rid of hazards or facing a bisharp sweep)

Do let me know if you feel any part of this reply is particularly egregious, I'm still learning how to best word them!
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
:thundurus-therian:

Thundy-T is an amazing special sweeper and furthermore amazing abuser on Sticky Webs-teams, and with a formidable SpAtt-stat in 145 and a great typing and the coverage to break past most pokes, it definitely deserves a rise from B- to B in my opinion. This mon threatens a plenty amount of pokes in the ORAS OU metagame with a hard hitting Thunderbolt and its amazing coverage options, be it focus blast for tyranitar, or hidden power ice for lando-t and gliscor. this mon packs also a great boosting move in nasty plot, to further its sweeping potential.
This poke is really amazing on webs teams and 1 of the key-abusers on them, with an immunity which simultaniously heals it back, in volt absorb, to comfortably set-up on pokes like zapdos and choice-locked magnezone. it can also deal with ferrothorn pretty well thanks to its amazing coverage in focus blast. its great speed-tier in conjunction with webs makes it that this poke is really hard to revengekill as well.

i think thundy-t definitely deserves a rise from b- to B as this is one of the best key-members on sticky webs teams alongside partners such as bisharp, mega sciz, manaphy and occosionally hoopa.

thundy-t from b- to B
 

Vileman

Actually a Nice Fella
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
UPL Champion
Hello!
Bisharp is one of the best offensive mons right now. a combination of strong STABs, priority, high attack and swords dance let's it threaten most teams, having good matchup vs common top mons and being a staple on web teams due to defiant and all the previous reasons.
I'd say it's at the very least A- rank, maybe A but I'll push for A- for now.
edit: it was brought to my attention that regular slowbro is unranked. Slowbro is very popular right now and its not hard to see why: it's a very solid answer to all of mega metagross, keldeo, gliscor, excadrill, mega medicham, and more. Scald + toxic/twave (even both) + ice beam + slack off can be very annoying to deal with / break due to regenerator, and i think it would be alright to put it in A rank (a- could work as well, i just rly like slowbro).
 
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Hydreigon deserves to move up. It's been a key member of my favorite ORAS team for the past two years; it is not only incredibly dangerous, but also quite consistent.

I'm sure most of us remember the hype around cbb's popular team with Hydreigon from early 2018, but I have not seen many other players explore Hydreigon itself since then, which is a shame considering how nearly universally effective it is. If you look at pretty much any team used in tournaments, you will see that unless there is a Chansey, the team will be threatened by Hydreigon, while getting it on the field is not a problem; there's always VolTurn, but Hyd is not entirely reliant on them to switch in thanks to its great typing, bulk and Speed. It also has excellent sustainability throughout a game since it is immune to Spikes and cannot be chipped by Rocky Helmet/Rough Skin/Iron Barbs, letting you continuously use it to threaten the opponent (as opposed to something like Crawdaunt).

The main set is Specs. Its STABs are brutal - its incredibly spammable Dark Pulse threatens out popular Dark-weak Pokemon (Psychic-types, Jellicent) and cannot be switched into by their common partners - bulky Grounds, Waters and Steels, while Draco Meteor threatens to drop AV Torn with rocks up and can potentially KO standard Gliscor from full. Of course, Clefable completely stuffs both of these, but it fears Flash Cannon - one of those and it will no longer be able to switch into Dark Pulse. Hyd becomes even more dangerous when paired with Rotom/Torn because they tend to mess with Clef (in addition to providing crucial defensive backbone and seizing momentum back via VolTurn, of course).

Here's a game against Roseybear from this season of Smogon Tour to show how easily Specs Hyd can go berserk without a Dark resist - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-527497
Also, as was just established, just having a Dark resist doesn't necessarily make you safe.

Worth noting that I think max Speed is a huge waste on Hyd; I love pumping bulk on it which I find to massively increase its in-game utility and opportunities. It shows in this game, allowing it to stay in on Pinsir. It's also great for easily surviving non-Hammer Arm Metagross, having a buffer against Serperior and generally having more security against offensive threats - for example, it lives +2 Mega Scizor BP after rocks, at full it can take an Iron Head and Sucker Punch from LO Bisharp. Things that are hard to quantify on paper but make such a huge difference in-game.

Here's a game against marcop, which is a few years old but once again demonstrates how massively threatening Hyd is throughout a game, as it just scares so much and is so difficult to switch into; this battle showcases its ability to terrorize Slowbro in particular - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-400179
The Terrakion easily could've been a Clefable or Tyranitar - just one Flash Cannon away.

Even in this game against Bloody alfa where Hydreigon itself isn't useful thanks to the presence of Chansey, it proves itself invaluable by repeatedly chasing Slowbro out, which is what was needed for Clefable to set up and sweep - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-461419
Incidentally, Hydreigon's last moveslot is pretty flexible - usually it's Fire Blast or Surf, and both are great, but it also gets U-turn, which can easily take advantage of the forced Chansey switch and is generally a great move for playing it safe and maintaining pressure. Especially nice if you can fit Spikes.

Of course, Hydreigon's great coverage lends itself well to a set that can switch moves. I heard tell cbb was experimenting with an Expert Belt set to further accentuate its super effective hits, and I tried it myself; this set drops Draco Meteor for the extra coverage of Surf, which lets it rip through Heatran and Gliscor. It's less able to threaten Torn on its own, but it's nothing that can't be handled by team support. This isn't a set that can be spammed as much, since without Draco it is actually walled by Keldeo - the surprise factor is big. By the time they figure out what the set is, they should have already lost a Pokemon to the coverage. I used this set a lot in last year's OUPL and loved it.

vs. blunder - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-438989
Shows how nasty being able to switch moves is, especially with the surprise factor, ensuring that Hyd is killer even against a team with Keldeo.

vs. xray - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-432200
Once again, switching moves, especially with surprise factor. With support, Torn isn't really a problem. Besides the shown TWave Rotom as well as constant threaten of Knock from one's own Torn, I also found Pursuit Metagross to be a particularly great partner for this purpose.

vs. Finchinator - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-440315
I have no idea why I didn't 1) attack with Hydreigon when I had the chance, as it was in a great position to deal heavy damage, or 2) use it more against Amoonguss and Zapdos. Once again, Hyd shows how easily threatening it is - you just have to make the most out of it.

vs. Lavos - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-438091
Hydreigon puts in a ton of work and could've put in even more with some better play.

vs. We Three Kings - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-435984
Hyd eats GK Reuniclus (the standard) alive and pressures its teammates easily.

Eventually, I started exploring a new move on the Expert Belt set: Thunder Wave. This utterly ruins Tornadus and Keldeo switchins. It's also a safer, easier move to click to still do something to Clefable, allowing your other teammates to have an easier time dealing with it. I dropped Fire Blast, which is unfortunate but most Steels are targeted by other teammates and in conjunction are hit sufficiently hard by Dark Pulse (especially as I experimented with Wise Glasses and Black Glasses as the item), while Surf was too important to drop - being able to beat Gliscor 1-on-1 is really important. If your team was good enough against Heatran, Excadrill and Bisharp, you could feasibly use HP Ice in this slot - really destroy Gliscor, potentially catch smart-ass TankChomps/bulky Landos and even sting Torn harder (with EBelt). I once again got this idea from cbb, who was toying with HP Ice on Specs. Anyway, no matter what coverage you settle on, TWave Hyd is awesome and also stacks beautifully with TWave Rotom.

vs. Altina - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-467718
Would've punished Torn hard if it stayed in, caught Clefable instead. In this game it also bluffed Scarf against Metagross - Scarf TWave (Dark Pulse/Uturn/filler) does actually sound like a pretty good set, worth exploring.

vs. Savouras - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-464123
Acts as an interim Bisharp answer after Chomp took a hit (such in-game flexibility is a really underappreciated aspect of Hyd) and paralyzes Clef, giving my other Pokes an easier time dealing with it - and once Clef is hindered, Hyd itself also becomes more dangerous. Also bluffs Choice once again and is able to take out a Bish thinking it had locked into Dark Pulse.

vs. Vaboh - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-520515
Even when burned, chases out Jelli, forces a KO then paralyzes a CB Tar, potentially allowing my Clef to beat it later on.

Finally, one of Hydreigon's best qualities: it is quite useful against Sticky Web teams. It's not going to singlehandedly demolish an entire team or anything, but it doesn't get slowed down and resists Dark, letting it check Bisharp beautifully. This gives you a ton of flexibility and safety, either providing backup after your TankChomp/Keldeo gets worn down, or allowing you to preserve their health. It also eats +6 Aqua Jet with ease and finishes off a chipped (roughly half health) Azumarill! Of course, if you're covering those Pokes already, then you can use Hyd to stave off Hoopa's STABs and/or Trick. Finally, you run bulk on it as mentioned earlier, Hyd can even check MSciz in a pinch. Great Pokemon to have against one of the most dangerous playstyles in the metagame.

vs. Xevara - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6ou-1006380666-pwje74c4tg2sbxeba0482ybvdt5yscopw
I didn't play this great, but Hydreigon carried hard, checking the boosted Bisharp after Keldeo went down.

With all that said, I believe Hydreigon is more on par with the Pokemon currently occupying B+ and therefore should rise accordingly. Thanks for reading! Viva ORAS.
 
:bisharp:
agree with bringing it all the way to A rank. it's one of the dominant forces on all sorts of offensive teams, most notably webs and "blue offense" style teams. i also really value how much you need to consider a pokemon when building when it comes to VRs, and bisharp is definitely one of those pokemon that can be sort of restrictive in the builder at times. you need to put effort into what counterplay you're gonna use against it.

:serperior:
i've always been a big proponent of serperior, but in the current metagame it stands out even more. against bulky offenses that usually pack tornadus-t and/or heatran as their checks to it, it can knock and/or glare them. being able to neuter checks in such a way is extremely powerful, as it can open the door for other teams. this also speaks to serperior's versatility: it has so many good sets and coverage/utility moves. subseed is great against fat builds, it can tech coverage moves like dragon pulse or hidden power ground to respond to metagame trends, the aforementioned glare and knock off both provide incredible utility that needs little explanation... beyond this, you have other niche options like assault vest sets and screens sets, both of which have seen a little bit of usage. finally, one of the most important things with serperior in the current meta is its webs matchup thanks to contrary. it doesn't automatically counter webs, don't get me wrong. it gives the serperior user another tool to pressure the webs user with, helping to add dimension to the simple gamestates (god i hate this term) that webs generate. this is pretty invaluable.

so yea, serp to A- rank.

:skarmory:
i agree that skarmory balances have fallen off a bit lately. not really too much to say here, this pokemon is much more on the level of the other A- rank pokemon than the A rank pokemon. i think the above two posts covered it well.

:volcarona:
not sure why we ranked this B+ tbh, definitely an A- rank pokemon. it is the matchup moth, so it does have some consistency issues, but generally speaking volcarona is always at least useful. like in a lot of games it can just outright win on preview, which is super dumb and restrictive in the builder obviously, but even when your opponent is packing good counterplay to it, it's not useless.

:hydreigon::crawdaunt:
BKC covered hydreigon well in his post, but i also want to tack on crawdaunt. i think these two mons serve fairly similar niches in terms of the build styles they're most prominent on: the most notable team for both of them nowadays is literally the same 5 pokemon + 1 of them. referring to this team by me / ABR and the version BKC made (shown in his replays). this style has fallen off a bit in favor of similar structures that have an excadrill on them, but i think we ranked hydrei and craw too low to begin with. i see raising the two of them to B+ as an appropriate way to correct this, as they are largely on par with the pokemon in B+ rank.

:breloom:
similar logic as above, as breloom fits on the same sorts of team structures, though it's a little worse than hydrei and craw imo. John W has been using a build in stour with breloom + alomomola that i think has picked up some steam. i think this mon could rise to B rank.

:slowbro:
not sure why we didn't rank this, maybe it got lost somewhere. i think A rank is way too high for it though, A- is too. slowbro isn't that good, but it does help with role compression, making building a lot easier. it's also pretty prevalent, so ranking it low (or not ranking it at all) would be wrong. i think it provides a sort of misleading comfort though, in that a lot of people splash it on builds where it doesn't really do much. as such, i think B+ rank is appropriate.

:tangrowth:
i think this could drop. it's a pretty good pokemon, but i simply think it's a clear level worse than the other pokemon in A- rank. it would be a better fit in B+ rank alongside other good but less effective defensive pokemon like amoongus, regular slowbro (potentially), jellicent, gastrodon, and zapdos.

:shuckle::thundurus-therian::gengar:
shuckle and thundurus-t are currently B- rank, gengar is currently C+ rank. i think all three can go to B rank due to how good webs is. maybe gengar is a better fit for B- instead, idk. thundurus is definitely one of the best abusers of webs, one of the pokemon that makes the playstyle. i don't think thundurus-t is so much worse than thundurus-i overall, so it being all the way down in B- while thundurus-i is in B+ seems weird. what thundurus-i has over thundurus-t is that it works better on other offenses, but this makes it 1 subrank better in my mind, not two. shuckle is a weird pokemon to rank: it isn't a great pokemon, but it's a fantastic webs setter. webs has truly become one of the most dominant styles in the tier, surpassing "cheese" status in my mind. i think it makes sense to rank it in B because of this. gengar is one of the spinblocker options on many webs teams, and it serves some other purposes outside of webs (though not so much nowadays lol...), so i think raising it from C+ to B is fair.

:hoopa:
currently unranked, i think it should just be ranked somewhere due to webs. it's used a decent amount. i would say C+ rank, but i don't feel too strongly about which rank it gets, just that it should be ranked.

edit: also i could see azumarill going to A- and excadrill going to S- or the very top of A+. might elaborate more on these later.
 
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