I think Noivern can easily rise to A+. With its high speed, it's one of the best Taunt User of the tier making it a really good stallbreaker against mons like Registeel or Mandibuzz. It's also a really good Fighting check and one of the best Golisopod counter in the tier, being able to Revenge Kill a lot of mon like Virizion, Bewear, Roserade LO Shaymin or a weakened Salazzle, thanks to its great speed and it can also deal with some steel types like Metagross with Flamethrower or a great Pivot with U-Turn. To me this mon deserves a little raise.
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Resource RU Viability Rankings - V3
- Thread starter roman
- Start date
Mavis
Banned deucer.
edit: earlier I stated rose should drop to A-, changing that now: nomming Roserade A+ -> A.
hot take and might be a little late on this one but it's time to drop Rose to A. with an absolute abundance of steels, poisons, and fires along with the decreasing prevalence of Milotic's presence to abuse and lay spikes against, rose struggles to be as relevant as the other A+ mons, which include... registeel. freakin' REGISTEEL. Rose has issues dealing with the increasingly common specially offensive fire types and specially defensive steel types, doing a max of ~50 to Salazzle with Sludge Bomb on the switch before being promptly forced out. in order to deal with all four prominent steel types, Rose needs both synthesis and HP fire, which it just can't fit. every team nowadays has one steel type and almost always at least one fire or poison, and their presence almost totally invalidates Rose outside of niche shit like hp ground on a scarf set or something.
however, it isn't all bad for rose, and that's why it's A. the ability to completely and totally shut down and abuse milo is cool, and it's a spiker that doesn't fear either of our primary removal options (to an extent. ice beam/eq on the switch can hurt pretty bad). it fits at home an notch above it's grass-type competitors shaymin and sceptile, while being quite a good deal better and more prominent than most if not all of A-. to me, Rose feels comfortable placed among fellow poisons toxicroak and nidoqueen, because it isn't quite as meta defining as registeel is, but definitely up there in viability and presence.
hot take and might be a little late on this one but it's time to drop Rose to A. with an absolute abundance of steels, poisons, and fires along with the decreasing prevalence of Milotic's presence to abuse and lay spikes against, rose struggles to be as relevant as the other A+ mons, which include... registeel. freakin' REGISTEEL. Rose has issues dealing with the increasingly common specially offensive fire types and specially defensive steel types, doing a max of ~50 to Salazzle with Sludge Bomb on the switch before being promptly forced out. in order to deal with all four prominent steel types, Rose needs both synthesis and HP fire, which it just can't fit. every team nowadays has one steel type and almost always at least one fire or poison, and their presence almost totally invalidates Rose outside of niche shit like hp ground on a scarf set or something.
however, it isn't all bad for rose, and that's why it's A. the ability to completely and totally shut down and abuse milo is cool, and it's a spiker that doesn't fear either of our primary removal options (to an extent. ice beam/eq on the switch can hurt pretty bad). it fits at home an notch above it's grass-type competitors shaymin and sceptile, while being quite a good deal better and more prominent than most if not all of A-. to me, Rose feels comfortable placed among fellow poisons toxicroak and nidoqueen, because it isn't quite as meta defining as registeel is, but definitely up there in viability and presence.
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Personally, I believe that Necrozma deserves to rise to A+. When the Victim of the Week was posted and Necrozma was revealed as the victim I began to realize how threatening this mon is. The most common set (and probably the best) of Calm Mind / Photon Geyser / Heat Wave / Moonlight with Firium Z can absolutely destroy teams. +1 Inferno Overdrive destroys steels such as Metagross, Bronzong, or Registeel and Photon Geyser is a really strong STAB move. It has really good natural bulk and due to this most revenge killers have a troubling time koing it especially while Necro is boosted. In fact, just by a glance at the viable scarfers, I really only see two that threaten it. Those being Houndoom and Tyrantrum. Houndoom is obviously the best counter to the set aforementioned as with Flash Fire, it is immune to both of Necrozma's attacking moves. However, Houndoom is never an always counter as Necrozma also can run earth power. The reason I mention Tyrantrum is because Head Smash does a lot to Necrozma (252 Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 231-273 (68.9 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and can usually revenge kill Necro as, differing from other scarfers, it only needs a little bit of chip to KO. However, every other scarfer usually does >50 to Necro at +1 SpDef and Necro can just fire off attacks or get slow recovery with moonlight. Pokemon that outspeed it naturally also have a hard time revenge killing it unless it's been severely weakened. Hell even Specs Ribombee only does around 60% to a +1 Necrozma.
Necrozma also has a plethora of viable sets including swords dance with buginium z as well as an offensive stealth rocker. Although Necro is definitely a strong option for a setup sweeper, it does have a hard time breaking mons like haze Mantine/Milotic or Umbreon (although Umbreon is competitively unviable) and is also weak to one of the best priority users in the tier, Golisopod. That being said, there are definitely ways around Necro but in the end, after all of its few checks have been taken care of, there is very little stopping it from setting up and sweeping. So, all in all, I firmly believe that Necrozma could certainly rise to the rank of A+.
Necrozma also has a plethora of viable sets including swords dance with buginium z as well as an offensive stealth rocker. Although Necro is definitely a strong option for a setup sweeper, it does have a hard time breaking mons like haze Mantine/Milotic or Umbreon (although Umbreon is competitively unviable) and is also weak to one of the best priority users in the tier, Golisopod. That being said, there are definitely ways around Necro but in the end, after all of its few checks have been taken care of, there is very little stopping it from setting up and sweeping. So, all in all, I firmly believe that Necrozma could certainly rise to the rank of A+.
Nominate Gourgiest to add at C/C+
After experiencing a little with gourgeist I have come to the conclusion that it has a somewhat interesting use in the goal. Starting first by the fact that you can switch into all the physical variants of virizion which is already a plus for this pokemon, but not only that, it can also be a very good spinblocker to donphan which the hazzard stack-based Team They appreciate it a lot and their good physical defense makes it a good situational switch to machamp, metagross, golisopod and zygarde, and you can also support the team with leech seed which helps a lot.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-961315544 -In this replay we can see the value that gourgiest has when entering in good form in araquanid and virizion and in a decent way in machamp and metagross. He just had to be careful not to burn the machamp and be careful with Honchckrow. He gives me Cloyster and once his virizion burned the battle was in my pocket
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-967452530-e44ptpykusp6ksvbc21eeea00wkr83kpw -Another matchup where Gourgeist can perfectly enter 3/6 pokemon and only threatened by arcanine. I managed to strain a DD in Zygarde but thanks to the leech and synthesis, I was able to beat him and once the arcanine died and the golisopod burned, the opponent had nothing else to do.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-970917438-d048evoz8chnjcekpbjf88iuzv8ap9fpw -Here Gourgeist didn´t much, however Gourgeist was able to enter golisopod attacks even with rocks, facilitating the pressure on the team and let me know from the beginning that pokemon had the Z move thanks to Frisk.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-971127007-8mulqbvi2w2tu2pv97kbtgzpdeyfe6lpw -
Here is the perfect example of how much gourgeist helps block Rapid spin. With blastoise dead Donphan had to spin , so that noivern could switch in without dying from rocks. But with gourgeist, he couldn't and had no choice but to give up when he couldn't touch it
It is not as bulky as tangela and does not learn knock off, but it it doesn't depend on the eviolite and the passive damage of wow and leech helps a lot so I think C / C + would be a good rank to start
After experiencing a little with gourgeist I have come to the conclusion that it has a somewhat interesting use in the goal. Starting first by the fact that you can switch into all the physical variants of virizion which is already a plus for this pokemon, but not only that, it can also be a very good spinblocker to donphan which the hazzard stack-based Team They appreciate it a lot and their good physical defense makes it a good situational switch to machamp, metagross, golisopod and zygarde, and you can also support the team with leech seed which helps a lot.
+2 252 Atk Virizion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 107-126 (28.6 - 33.6%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Virizion Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 191-225 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 85-101 (22.7 - 27%) -- 36.7% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Virizion Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-200 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Virizion Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 139-164 (37.1 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Golisopod First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 99-117 (26.4 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 88-105 (23.5 - 28%) -- 87.1% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Insect Plate Golisopod First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 118-141 (31.5 - 37.7%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Insect Plate Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 105-124 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 102-121 (27.2 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Zygarde-10% Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 243-286 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zygarde-10% Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 156-184 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 105-124 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Guts Machamp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Gourgeist-Super: 109-129 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 5.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Guts Machamp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 146-174 (39 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Machamp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 100-118 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Machamp Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 112-134 (29.9 - 35.8%) -- 33.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Guts Machamp Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-200 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 145-172 (38.7 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tyrantrum Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 118-139 (31.5 - 37.1%) -- 81.3% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 102-121 (27.2 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Flygon Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 243-286 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 92-110 (24.5 - 29.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Gourgeist-Super: 69-82 (18.4 - 21.9%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 58-70 (15.5 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO
+2 252 Atk Virizion Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 191-225 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 85-101 (22.7 - 27%) -- 36.7% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Virizion Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-200 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Virizion Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 139-164 (37.1 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Golisopod First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 99-117 (26.4 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 88-105 (23.5 - 28%) -- 87.1% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Insect Plate Golisopod First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 118-141 (31.5 - 37.7%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Insect Plate Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 105-124 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 102-121 (27.2 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Zygarde-10% Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 243-286 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zygarde-10% Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 156-184 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 105-124 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Guts Machamp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Gourgeist-Super: 109-129 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 5.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Guts Machamp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 146-174 (39 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Machamp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 100-118 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Machamp Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 112-134 (29.9 - 35.8%) -- 33.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Guts Machamp Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-200 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 145-172 (38.7 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tyrantrum Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 118-139 (31.5 - 37.1%) -- 81.3% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 102-121 (27.2 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Flygon Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 243-286 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 92-110 (24.5 - 29.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Gourgeist-Super: 69-82 (18.4 - 21.9%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 58-70 (15.5 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-961315544 -In this replay we can see the value that gourgiest has when entering in good form in araquanid and virizion and in a decent way in machamp and metagross. He just had to be careful not to burn the machamp and be careful with Honchckrow. He gives me Cloyster and once his virizion burned the battle was in my pocket
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-967452530-e44ptpykusp6ksvbc21eeea00wkr83kpw -Another matchup where Gourgeist can perfectly enter 3/6 pokemon and only threatened by arcanine. I managed to strain a DD in Zygarde but thanks to the leech and synthesis, I was able to beat him and once the arcanine died and the golisopod burned, the opponent had nothing else to do.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-970917438-d048evoz8chnjcekpbjf88iuzv8ap9fpw -Here Gourgeist didn´t much, however Gourgeist was able to enter golisopod attacks even with rocks, facilitating the pressure on the team and let me know from the beginning that pokemon had the Z move thanks to Frisk.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-971127007-8mulqbvi2w2tu2pv97kbtgzpdeyfe6lpw -
Here is the perfect example of how much gourgeist helps block Rapid spin. With blastoise dead Donphan had to spin , so that noivern could switch in without dying from rocks. But with gourgeist, he couldn't and had no choice but to give up when he couldn't touch it
It is not as bulky as tangela and does not learn knock off, but it it doesn't depend on the eviolite and the passive damage of wow and leech helps a lot so I think C / C + would be a good rank to start
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Voyager
He didn't notice that the lights had changed
Cresselia: B --> B+
Cress walls a heavy portion of the RU meta and deserves to be B+. It counters both fighting types and bulky poisons both of which are very strong in this meta. The bulky sweeper set is very threatening and u really need to keep your bulky steel mon healthy or lose. It has been nomed for alot of victim of the weeks and checks such a significant portion of the meta game that it deserves to rise. It does more in a matchup than the rest of B.
Tangela: B- --> B+
It walls every mon physical mon so lets put it in B-. While that is an exaggeration it checks virtually all physical mons and so deserves to rise to B+. It is easy to fit on teams and hits decently hard aswell. My fav calc to show how high its defense is 252 Atk Bewear Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 201-237 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO and 252 Atk Bewear Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 108+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 156-184 (46.7 - 55%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO. Tangela takes less damage than defensive zygarde, showing how much of a defensive monster this thing is.
Other Noms I Agree With
Necrozma --> A
Diancie --> A-
Espeon --> B-
Donphan --> A
Cress walls a heavy portion of the RU meta and deserves to be B+. It counters both fighting types and bulky poisons both of which are very strong in this meta. The bulky sweeper set is very threatening and u really need to keep your bulky steel mon healthy or lose. It has been nomed for alot of victim of the weeks and checks such a significant portion of the meta game that it deserves to rise. It does more in a matchup than the rest of B.
Tangela: B- --> B+
It walls every mon physical mon so lets put it in B-. While that is an exaggeration it checks virtually all physical mons and so deserves to rise to B+. It is easy to fit on teams and hits decently hard aswell. My fav calc to show how high its defense is 252 Atk Bewear Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 201-237 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO and 252 Atk Bewear Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 108+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 156-184 (46.7 - 55%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO. Tangela takes less damage than defensive zygarde, showing how much of a defensive monster this thing is.
Other Noms I Agree With
Necrozma --> A
Diancie --> A-
Espeon --> B-
Donphan --> A
Slurpuff C->C+(or even B-)
I think people are not realized how threatening slurpuff is after three walls gone.
And imo jolly is better than adamant,because the additional power is not really need most of the time.
While jolly outspeeds more things,which make sweep more stable.
Since fairy resist bug and dark,priority is not a huge problem outside choice band bullet punch.
I could have played better though,I would believe below replays can show how it works.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-972109295
Once the check is weakened,a single turn,get the win.I pared cupcake with a memento support.This make it easy to get a free turn to setup.
(This replay mainly shows how annoying Mandi is though)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-973340976-h73y7jkzlgh8dro98tl5tab43u05yndpw
This is also one season why jolly might be better.As weather attackers mainly runs + power nature,jolly outspeeds and has a chance to win such matchup.Where adamant failed to do.(Who cares jolly slurpuff tbh)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-972799999-radi8eb38cqy6wt9q60t8evq3ve55qrpw
I have not found a chance to setup and get the win.But when facing something not bulky and already weakened in late game,it is still possible to kill the oppenent with speed +2.
I think people are not realized how threatening slurpuff is after three walls gone.
And imo jolly is better than adamant,because the additional power is not really need most of the time.
While jolly outspeeds more things,which make sweep more stable.
Since fairy resist bug and dark,priority is not a huge problem outside choice band bullet punch.
I could have played better though,I would believe below replays can show how it works.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-972109295
Once the check is weakened,a single turn,get the win.I pared cupcake with a memento support.This make it easy to get a free turn to setup.
(This replay mainly shows how annoying Mandi is though)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-973340976-h73y7jkzlgh8dro98tl5tab43u05yndpw
This is also one season why jolly might be better.As weather attackers mainly runs + power nature,jolly outspeeds and has a chance to win such matchup.Where adamant failed to do.(Who cares jolly slurpuff tbh)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-972799999-radi8eb38cqy6wt9q60t8evq3ve55qrpw
I have not found a chance to setup and get the win.But when facing something not bulky and already weakened in late game,it is still possible to kill the oppenent with speed +2.
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hi im back to everyone's dismay. no weird noms this time, i dont think
-> a
with the highest usage so far in snake and a perfectly even wr, it's clear this has more utility and usability than the rest of its partners in a- (except the broken psychics but more on that later.) sdef toxic sets are gaining in popularity to put a stop to the rising star cm necro as well as put the brakes on nidoqueen lacking toxic, whereas physdef sets still have their utility in checking a wide variety of physical threats and serving as a general annoyance to take down. i still think it's a pretty garbage defogger but it's defensive prowess is not to be ignore and i think that merits a bump up.
-> a/a+
sensei axew already touched on this so imma keep it short and just echo his post - this thing is a massive threat. it's incredibly hard to kill outside of using toxic, quite powerful and can break through/clean unprepared teams with ease. hp invested sets are popping up too which make it even more obnoxious to get rid of, let it serve as a fighting and nidoqueen check while still having very good sweeping power. this should be a no-brainer to anyone remotely vested in the ru tier as of recent.
-> b+ (at least)
finally people opened their eyes to my boy passimian. it's been on just about every other team in snake, and has definitely showed that it can pull its weight in the tier on the same level as our other established bulky fightings. it's base 80 speed to get the jump on common speed tiers and access to uturn give its cb set quite notable niches over machamp and bewear, and choice scarf is probably one of the most consistent rkillers we have right now barring sceptile. overall, a very solid mon that flew under the radar for far too long.
-> b+
on the flip side of the coin, machamp isn't necessarily bad rn but it has a lot more competition for the bulky fighting slot than it did a few months ago, with cb competing between bewear and up-and-comer passimian, and av sets being an arguable downgrade from hariyama. the only standout niche it really has is guts (and i suppose dynamicpunch if you're a scumbag) but i don't think that's quite enough to set it apart from the rest of the pack. it also doesn't help that psychics and bb mandi are getting even more usage than ever to combat necro and viriz, and it can often end up being a liability vs team comps involving them.
-> a
i'd like to see some reasoning on why this didn't rise in the last update honestly. slowbro has definitely proven its worth in snake so far, with a showing comparable to/better than multiple threats in the ranks above it. it even has added worth in being a decent stop to necro if it packs toxic, as well as one of the few fighting resists that doesn't really mind being uturned on by pass. do my man some justice
-> b-
with meta builds trending further towards balance than they have in a while, xatu finds itself enjoying it's spot rn as it serves as quite the annoyance to balance's main players, namely bulky steels and the toxic button. it also serves as an okay-ish pivot into fightings, particularly virizion lacking edge, so it's not useless even outside of balance matchups. i can definitely see it picking up in usage if balance teams continue to get the attention they have so far.
free diancie, free donphan, free garbo
with the highest usage so far in snake and a perfectly even wr, it's clear this has more utility and usability than the rest of its partners in a- (except the broken psychics but more on that later.) sdef toxic sets are gaining in popularity to put a stop to the rising star cm necro as well as put the brakes on nidoqueen lacking toxic, whereas physdef sets still have their utility in checking a wide variety of physical threats and serving as a general annoyance to take down. i still think it's a pretty garbage defogger but it's defensive prowess is not to be ignore and i think that merits a bump up.
sensei axew already touched on this so imma keep it short and just echo his post - this thing is a massive threat. it's incredibly hard to kill outside of using toxic, quite powerful and can break through/clean unprepared teams with ease. hp invested sets are popping up too which make it even more obnoxious to get rid of, let it serve as a fighting and nidoqueen check while still having very good sweeping power. this should be a no-brainer to anyone remotely vested in the ru tier as of recent.
finally people opened their eyes to my boy passimian. it's been on just about every other team in snake, and has definitely showed that it can pull its weight in the tier on the same level as our other established bulky fightings. it's base 80 speed to get the jump on common speed tiers and access to uturn give its cb set quite notable niches over machamp and bewear, and choice scarf is probably one of the most consistent rkillers we have right now barring sceptile. overall, a very solid mon that flew under the radar for far too long.
on the flip side of the coin, machamp isn't necessarily bad rn but it has a lot more competition for the bulky fighting slot than it did a few months ago, with cb competing between bewear and up-and-comer passimian, and av sets being an arguable downgrade from hariyama. the only standout niche it really has is guts (and i suppose dynamicpunch if you're a scumbag) but i don't think that's quite enough to set it apart from the rest of the pack. it also doesn't help that psychics and bb mandi are getting even more usage than ever to combat necro and viriz, and it can often end up being a liability vs team comps involving them.
i'd like to see some reasoning on why this didn't rise in the last update honestly. slowbro has definitely proven its worth in snake so far, with a showing comparable to/better than multiple threats in the ranks above it. it even has added worth in being a decent stop to necro if it packs toxic, as well as one of the few fighting resists that doesn't really mind being uturned on by pass. do my man some justice
with meta builds trending further towards balance than they have in a while, xatu finds itself enjoying it's spot rn as it serves as quite the annoyance to balance's main players, namely bulky steels and the toxic button. it also serves as an okay-ish pivot into fightings, particularly virizion lacking edge, so it's not useless even outside of balance matchups. i can definitely see it picking up in usage if balance teams continue to get the attention they have so far.
free diancie, free donphan, free garbo
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-> A+Metagross is still a very good mon, don't get me wrong. However, I've just felt that it hasn't been performing as an S-rank mon lately. With the rise of Necrozma and Slowbro, it's Rocks set has gotten worse, and it ends up having a bit of 4MSS on it's Banded set
-> C/C+With Quagsire, it's main competition gone, stall now has to rely on Pyukumuku to be the designated Unaware mon. I wouldn't say Pyukumuku has gotten any better, but it's niche is more prominent now, so I think it's deserving of a bump
-> B-/BKlinklang with Steelium Z is an incredibly threatening sweeper. After one boost is outspeeds (or practically outspeeds) the entire RU tier, and Steel/Electric coverage is great. With the rise of Bewear and Passimian, this mon has a solid niche, and is deserving of a bump.
Also agree with:
Mandibuzz -> A+
Necrozma -> A
Slowbro -> A
nomming braviary for b/b-
i don't think choiced sets are that good, but speedy sub bulk up brav is great at the moment. once it gets going, it's really hard to stop. it can easily just sweep straight through teams, as our most common revenge killers such as golisopod, sceptile and scarf flygon can't revenge it very well at all. brav gets a ton of set up opportunities vs all our tier's often seen grasses and fightings, the ever so common goli, registeel (it can make 101 hp subs if u give it enough hp evs), mandibuzz, sr metagross/bronzong, forretress etc. once it gets even just one bu off, it beats rock types like gigalith, diancie and rhyperior, unless dia is offensive cm and rhyp is sd. it also has a really sold speed tier, just outspeeding stoise, queen, necro + everything below. additionally, it has defiant to punish defog. the mon is great, try it n.n
i don't think choiced sets are that good, but speedy sub bulk up brav is great at the moment. once it gets going, it's really hard to stop. it can easily just sweep straight through teams, as our most common revenge killers such as golisopod, sceptile and scarf flygon can't revenge it very well at all. brav gets a ton of set up opportunities vs all our tier's often seen grasses and fightings, the ever so common goli, registeel (it can make 101 hp subs if u give it enough hp evs), mandibuzz, sr metagross/bronzong, forretress etc. once it gets even just one bu off, it beats rock types like gigalith, diancie and rhyperior, unless dia is offensive cm and rhyp is sd. it also has a really sold speed tier, just outspeeding stoise, queen, necro + everything below. additionally, it has defiant to punish defog. the mon is great, try it n.n
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You guys need to rank ditto *somewhere* before the generation ends in my opinion. I haven't played in quite a while but eifo and i made a ditto semistall squad a while back that from what i've heard has done pretty well on both the ladder and in tournament play.
Running scarf ditto gives you a revenge killer that can never be outsped by its intended target because it will copy the opponent's speed tier along with any stat boosts the moment it switches in, this almost completely eliminates any situation where an offensive mon could run through your entire team because you have nothing that could possibly outspeed it and pick it off. This trait also gives it a great matchup against the majority of "cheese strats" because of its ability to turn the tables on anything they try to pull off, and makes it a solid, yet somewhat worse against bulky setup alternative to using pyukumuku or a haze user on defensive/stall teams. Speaking of defensive teams, Ditto can be used to infinitely copy the support options of any defensive pokemon on the opposing team, whether it be status, clerical support, recovery, hazards, or removal, due to the fact that every time imposter activates its pp are restored. Also, Ditto is one of the best, if not the best method of scouting out an opponent because it will simply copy the opponent's moveset the instant it's sent in, giving the Ditto user invaluable knowledge about the opponent that nothing else could provide in just one turn.
I don't have any replays of it in action on hand right now, which is a shame because it's honestly sort of hard to explain exactly why it has a good niche outside of being able to outspeed anything it's put up against because it doesn't have a consistent...anything really due to the way imposter works, but i'm sure eifo has plenty that he could show off if you want to see any.
Running scarf ditto gives you a revenge killer that can never be outsped by its intended target because it will copy the opponent's speed tier along with any stat boosts the moment it switches in, this almost completely eliminates any situation where an offensive mon could run through your entire team because you have nothing that could possibly outspeed it and pick it off. This trait also gives it a great matchup against the majority of "cheese strats" because of its ability to turn the tables on anything they try to pull off, and makes it a solid, yet somewhat worse against bulky setup alternative to using pyukumuku or a haze user on defensive/stall teams. Speaking of defensive teams, Ditto can be used to infinitely copy the support options of any defensive pokemon on the opposing team, whether it be status, clerical support, recovery, hazards, or removal, due to the fact that every time imposter activates its pp are restored. Also, Ditto is one of the best, if not the best method of scouting out an opponent because it will simply copy the opponent's moveset the instant it's sent in, giving the Ditto user invaluable knowledge about the opponent that nothing else could provide in just one turn.
I don't have any replays of it in action on hand right now, which is a shame because it's honestly sort of hard to explain exactly why it has a good niche outside of being able to outspeed anything it's put up against because it doesn't have a consistent...anything really due to the way imposter works, but i'm sure eifo has plenty that he could show off if you want to see any.
just here to say I agree with everything above and to provide replays. ditto is great for scouting sets, revenging set up and gives infinite pp vs fatter builds. good mon, best scarfer in the tier, second only to mega sceptile.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-922602093
my man ditto is out here crushing balance. truly showcases all its perks in this one. lets me pivot into shay and scout the set. it then lets me revenge weakened curselax. in the endgame, bc i know that it is air slash shay from scouting it earlier, i know that i can copy shay and sweep - which it does.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-951802426
ditto wins vs stall. scouts sets and gives me endless pp, which eventually lets me pp stall him to the point at which necro can finally set up and win. long and tedious process of 200+ turns, but without ditto this is never a win, as one cleric is not enough to support a necro sweep vs several toxic mons.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-943038348
ditto takes care of eq venu and dd gon, which otherwise would win.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-921648914
ditto lets me pivot in on stoise safely and force it out + claim solid chip on incoming whimsi and ko the stoise on the obvious uturn, rather than having to sack something. it then revenges maro and forces the zyg in, which gives me a free bro switch + cm to weaken everything, at which point ditto can clean up.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-921645665
ditto lets me scout meta set t1. keeps krow from ever sweeping me.
it's obviously just a free win vs all kinds of cheesy ho, like screens, weather and webs. i don't have any replays of ditto even coming out vs these kinds of teams tho, as i just beat those bad playstyles by setting up tspikes and stalling them with UmbySteel tho
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-922602093
my man ditto is out here crushing balance. truly showcases all its perks in this one. lets me pivot into shay and scout the set. it then lets me revenge weakened curselax. in the endgame, bc i know that it is air slash shay from scouting it earlier, i know that i can copy shay and sweep - which it does.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-951802426
ditto wins vs stall. scouts sets and gives me endless pp, which eventually lets me pp stall him to the point at which necro can finally set up and win. long and tedious process of 200+ turns, but without ditto this is never a win, as one cleric is not enough to support a necro sweep vs several toxic mons.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-943038348
ditto takes care of eq venu and dd gon, which otherwise would win.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-921648914
ditto lets me pivot in on stoise safely and force it out + claim solid chip on incoming whimsi and ko the stoise on the obvious uturn, rather than having to sack something. it then revenges maro and forces the zyg in, which gives me a free bro switch + cm to weaken everything, at which point ditto can clean up.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-921645665
ditto lets me scout meta set t1. keeps krow from ever sweeping me.
it's obviously just a free win vs all kinds of cheesy ho, like screens, weather and webs. i don't have any replays of ditto even coming out vs these kinds of teams tho, as i just beat those bad playstyles by setting up tspikes and stalling them with UmbySteel tho
roman
Banned deucer.
Hello all,
Quick update for now, the next slate will likely be the final update of the generation so discussion is completely open bar the D ranks of course, so feel free to make whatever nominations your heart desires. And a VR council update: Arifeen has been removed and we have added Moon, Odd Della Robbia, and The Leprechaun.
Now onto the update!
Ranking Updates
Reasoning
Rises
Mandibuzz helps deal with trends like Necrozma and Donphan, Toxic + Knock Off is very good vs. balance, usable Defogger etc,, snake usage and winrate are indicative of how good it is as well. Necrozma does the same things with its CM Z-move set, it was initially deemed broken or of S rank status by some but we've seen a lot of specially defensive Toxic Mandibuzz (and some fast Taunt) and other answers like Slowbro, Slowking, and Houndoom.. so A is fine. Donphan is in somewhat of a similar boat - it's still on an upward trend but people have started to actual prep for it, so A is fine for it as well. Slowbro beats nearly every Fighting-type while handling trending Pokemon, particularly Passimian and Necrozma, and has freedom with a last moveslot, allowing it to fulfill different roles. For example, Calm Mind allows it to beat Calm Mind Psychic-types (Necrozma Xatu Sigilyph) and is a threat in its own right, especially since players have a tendency to use Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Houndoom as their answer to Calm Mind Psychic-types. It can also run a third attack such as Ice Beam (mainly for Noivern) or even Electrium Z + Zap Cannon which is difficult to switch into, Toxic is fine as well. Flygon is turning out to be a pretty great Choice Scarf user, capable of pivoting into many set up Pokemon such as Virizion and then forcing them out and gaining momentum with U-turn, it provides further utility in Toxic / Defog etc as well. With the rise of balances, we are seeing a big rise in Pokemon such as Registeel and Slowbro, so Araquanid can get a rise- it was a little underrated in the vr beforehand anyhow. Milotic is seeing a bit of usage again, Refresh + Toxic + Scald is very annoying for a lot of balance teams to handle reliably and of course it's still as bulky as ever. However, it's somewhat easy to abuse depending on the set and is a bit of a momentum sap, so a small rise is fine for now. Xatu beats Registeel and Bronzong hard (combined 44ish% usage in snake) and can handle Stealth Rock Metagross as well, which is worth a decent rank by itself. It can also pack Toxic to handle switch ins, mainly Mandibuzz and Slowbro, or pack Calm Mind to further take advantage of getting free turns off said Steel-types, so B is fine. Passimian's Choice Scarf set works similarly to Flygon's which is very good and its Choice Band set is an absolute menace to switch into, many Close Combat resists are either outright 2HKOed or taken out by a coverage move which makes it difficult to handle, C to A- over two updates might seem a bit crazy but it's definitely warranted, check out snake replays if you're still questioning the rise. Vaporeon is a decent Wish passer that has perks over other Water-types like Heal Bell but not much else.. moving on. Gigalith dicks all the Fire-types hard and can set rocks. Klinklang is getting a small rise for its sweeper set, it's not reliable at all but can fish a good matchup every now and then so C+ is fine.
Drops
The metagame is shifting more towards balance, and with that comes an influx of bulky Pokemon such as Slowbro and Registeel, and Barbaracle struggles to break through even bulky offense teams as Pokemon like Virizion and Metagross are really prevalent, which means that it typically doesn't get much farther than a single kill with +2 Z-move. Machamp is just not that effective.. Hariyama gives it competition as an AV user that can more reliably handle Fire-types and Passimian gives it competition for it as a wallbreaker that can also provide U-turn and hit a very relevant Speed stat, unlike Machamp. Ribombee had some traction back in the days of SPL, but it really struggles to make headway in this metagame. However, it does have cool utility in U-turn, Sticky Web, Trick, so it's good enough for B-. Tangela has lost a bit of appeal as a physically defensive wall due to the drop in Zygarde-10% usage and now we have the rise of threats such as Choice Band Passimian who can actually handle it with Stealth Rock up.. it also just isn't a reliable switch in to other Pokemon like Choice Band Metagross (you lose to Attack raise or click Knock Off and risk being trapped), and has to run Hidden Power Flying to not be setup for Virizion. Also Mandibuzz is getting a loot more usage and that just dicks Tangela so it can get a little drop, still has a lot of utility and such so C+ is fine. Torterra was somewhat viable as a Zygarde-10% switch in, so you can imagine how good it is now. Glalie-Mega and Rotom-C are literally just horrible, I would just unrank them personally but Glalie does offer Spikes and Rotom-C has.. Defog that beats like one Stealth Rock user!
New Rankings
Ditto does the same thing it does in every tier: pressures set up, helps vs. fat etc.. there are multiple posts in this thread calling for a rank so you can read those for more if you haven't already.
Discussion Points
As I said earlier, feel free to discuss the rank of anything but those in D, but stay on topic please. See you all next time!
Edit: here is a link to the votes.
Quick update for now, the next slate will likely be the final update of the generation so discussion is completely open bar the D ranks of course, so feel free to make whatever nominations your heart desires. And a VR council update: Arifeen has been removed and we have added Moon, Odd Della Robbia, and The Leprechaun.
Now onto the update!
Ranking Updates
Code:
Rises:
Mandibuzz A- → A+
Necrozma A- → A
Donphan A- → A
Slowbro A- → A
Flygon B → B+
Araquanid B → B+
Milotic B → B+
Xatu C+ → B
Passimian B- → A-
Vaporeon B- → B
Gigalith B- → B
Klinklang C → C+
Drops:
Barbaracle A- → B
Machamp A- → B+
Ribombee B → B-
Tangela B- → C+
Torterra C+ → UR
Glalie-Mega C+ → C
Rotom-C C → C-
===
Ditto UR → C+Rises
Mandibuzz helps deal with trends like Necrozma and Donphan, Toxic + Knock Off is very good vs. balance, usable Defogger etc,, snake usage and winrate are indicative of how good it is as well. Necrozma does the same things with its CM Z-move set, it was initially deemed broken or of S rank status by some but we've seen a lot of specially defensive Toxic Mandibuzz (and some fast Taunt) and other answers like Slowbro, Slowking, and Houndoom.. so A is fine. Donphan is in somewhat of a similar boat - it's still on an upward trend but people have started to actual prep for it, so A is fine for it as well. Slowbro beats nearly every Fighting-type while handling trending Pokemon, particularly Passimian and Necrozma, and has freedom with a last moveslot, allowing it to fulfill different roles. For example, Calm Mind allows it to beat Calm Mind Psychic-types (Necrozma Xatu Sigilyph) and is a threat in its own right, especially since players have a tendency to use Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Houndoom as their answer to Calm Mind Psychic-types. It can also run a third attack such as Ice Beam (mainly for Noivern) or even Electrium Z + Zap Cannon which is difficult to switch into, Toxic is fine as well. Flygon is turning out to be a pretty great Choice Scarf user, capable of pivoting into many set up Pokemon such as Virizion and then forcing them out and gaining momentum with U-turn, it provides further utility in Toxic / Defog etc as well. With the rise of balances, we are seeing a big rise in Pokemon such as Registeel and Slowbro, so Araquanid can get a rise- it was a little underrated in the vr beforehand anyhow. Milotic is seeing a bit of usage again, Refresh + Toxic + Scald is very annoying for a lot of balance teams to handle reliably and of course it's still as bulky as ever. However, it's somewhat easy to abuse depending on the set and is a bit of a momentum sap, so a small rise is fine for now. Xatu beats Registeel and Bronzong hard (combined 44ish% usage in snake) and can handle Stealth Rock Metagross as well, which is worth a decent rank by itself. It can also pack Toxic to handle switch ins, mainly Mandibuzz and Slowbro, or pack Calm Mind to further take advantage of getting free turns off said Steel-types, so B is fine. Passimian's Choice Scarf set works similarly to Flygon's which is very good and its Choice Band set is an absolute menace to switch into, many Close Combat resists are either outright 2HKOed or taken out by a coverage move which makes it difficult to handle, C to A- over two updates might seem a bit crazy but it's definitely warranted, check out snake replays if you're still questioning the rise. Vaporeon is a decent Wish passer that has perks over other Water-types like Heal Bell but not much else.. moving on. Gigalith dicks all the Fire-types hard and can set rocks. Klinklang is getting a small rise for its sweeper set, it's not reliable at all but can fish a good matchup every now and then so C+ is fine.
Drops
The metagame is shifting more towards balance, and with that comes an influx of bulky Pokemon such as Slowbro and Registeel, and Barbaracle struggles to break through even bulky offense teams as Pokemon like Virizion and Metagross are really prevalent, which means that it typically doesn't get much farther than a single kill with +2 Z-move. Machamp is just not that effective.. Hariyama gives it competition as an AV user that can more reliably handle Fire-types and Passimian gives it competition for it as a wallbreaker that can also provide U-turn and hit a very relevant Speed stat, unlike Machamp. Ribombee had some traction back in the days of SPL, but it really struggles to make headway in this metagame. However, it does have cool utility in U-turn, Sticky Web, Trick, so it's good enough for B-. Tangela has lost a bit of appeal as a physically defensive wall due to the drop in Zygarde-10% usage and now we have the rise of threats such as Choice Band Passimian who can actually handle it with Stealth Rock up.. it also just isn't a reliable switch in to other Pokemon like Choice Band Metagross (you lose to Attack raise or click Knock Off and risk being trapped), and has to run Hidden Power Flying to not be setup for Virizion. Also Mandibuzz is getting a loot more usage and that just dicks Tangela so it can get a little drop, still has a lot of utility and such so C+ is fine. Torterra was somewhat viable as a Zygarde-10% switch in, so you can imagine how good it is now. Glalie-Mega and Rotom-C are literally just horrible, I would just unrank them personally but Glalie does offer Spikes and Rotom-C has.. Defog that beats like one Stealth Rock user!
New Rankings
Ditto does the same thing it does in every tier: pressures set up, helps vs. fat etc.. there are multiple posts in this thread calling for a rank so you can read those for more if you haven't already.
Discussion Points
As I said earlier, feel free to discuss the rank of anything but those in D, but stay on topic please. See you all next time!
Edit: here is a link to the votes.
when I first thought of aerodactyl on paper i thought it'd be one of those mons that are very good in theory but in practice just always fall short. I was very surprised when it DIDN'T fall short and it actually performed consistently good in most of my matchups vs offense. i'm sure everyone already knows the reasoning for aero being good but i'll list them one more time: 130 speed puts it above a lot of very threatening pokemon including and not limited to: salazzle (which it can switch into and very reliably check), noivern (which it can also check if it doesn't have draco), golisopod, queen, and raikou. it also has pursuit should you wanna trap something. 3 atks life orb + roost is the set i opted to and the moves are customizable depending on what you wanna beat. if your team is weak to viriz/strong fighting types, run aerial ace.
a mon that so reliably beats a bunch of threats for offense should be higher than B imo, B+ is a good fit. it still struggles vs a bunch of mons in the A ranks so I don't think it'd fit there for now.
I think Necrozma should rise to A+ or S rank.
Its sets vary too much to predict accurrately, with access to SD, Calm Mind, Heat Wave, EQ, Stored Power, and a ton of other coverage and status moves. I think there are a bunch of FANTASTIC sets that wreak havoc on the tier rn, and even choice band and specs work too well for what it seems like they should
-Knock, EQ, Photon Geyser, and another coverage move hits a majority of the tier with Choice band
- Photon, Heat Wave, Signal Beam, Earth Power hits the entire tier for nice damage with Choice specs
-Calm Mind, Heat Wave, Photon, and Morning Sun/Rock Polish with Firium Z destroys EVERYTHING
- Swords Dance, EQ, Photon Geyser, and Morning Sun/Rock Polish with Colbur Berry or Lum Berry sets up easy and destroys the tier even easier
-And in my opinion, the best set is Calm Mind, Stored Power, Iron Defense, Rest with Chesto Berry or Leftovers
All of the variety and the strength of each and every set works well in its own way, and is near unpredictable.
Its sets vary too much to predict accurrately, with access to SD, Calm Mind, Heat Wave, EQ, Stored Power, and a ton of other coverage and status moves. I think there are a bunch of FANTASTIC sets that wreak havoc on the tier rn, and even choice band and specs work too well for what it seems like they should
-Knock, EQ, Photon Geyser, and another coverage move hits a majority of the tier with Choice band
- Photon, Heat Wave, Signal Beam, Earth Power hits the entire tier for nice damage with Choice specs
-Calm Mind, Heat Wave, Photon, and Morning Sun/Rock Polish with Firium Z destroys EVERYTHING
- Swords Dance, EQ, Photon Geyser, and Morning Sun/Rock Polish with Colbur Berry or Lum Berry sets up easy and destroys the tier even easier
-And in my opinion, the best set is Calm Mind, Stored Power, Iron Defense, Rest with Chesto Berry or Leftovers
All of the variety and the strength of each and every set works well in its own way, and is near unpredictable.
Replays are not mandatory unless you are nominating UR mons for promotion, but hey, I gotchu bro.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-978528711-4byqha8efi8xsbdb6zi68x1wkry2h94pw
nec wins 6-0.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-952403638
nec wins 6-0.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-980467598-6uqrb7zphqlh5omznkh3az27mibunv7pw
nec wins 6-0 vs a lax build, courtesy of psychium.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-983550804-8ijsqqa6yb59revdff9k862q1535omypw
nec wins 6-0
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-951802426
already shared this one wrt ditto, but in the end it is nec that kills everything, hence it is relevant.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-944328182
nec damn near wins the game on its own. kos like 4 mons.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-952828857
nec wins 6-0 barring any parahax. he ends up missing the mash, which speeds up the process (nec always lived mash+aero edge). great example of why bulky nec is good.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-978215046
nec gets rid of regi and checks pass time and time again.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-977416137-rwm14qdwscnejc48007hr5ykhcb6umwpw
nec kos espy and stoise. could have check champ + knocked regi if need be, but it wasn't necessary.
This is actually my first post and I hope what I'm about to post is okay. I've done a fair share of lurking first. ^^
I think Toxicroak deserves a jump to A+ or maybe even S-rank because from the playing I've experienced, it's such a metagame-defining mon. By virtue of its Dry Skin ability and the resistances it already has, it is able to wall an insane amount of things, including but not limited to Milotic, Araquanid, Golisopod, Mantine (unless it has Air Slash, the ones I've seen seem to prefer Toxic), Tsareena, and Virizion. It's such an amazing team glue and go-to mon for when any Water, Dark, or Fighting attack or a Toxic is coming and you need a safe switch. Once it's on a roll, it can even hold its own against Mega Sceptile, Mega Blastoise, Florges, Roserade, and Drapion. The amount of opportunities Toxicroak gets to either set up, take momentum, or just wall something to death is insane. Its versatility makes it additionally hard to deal with until its set becomes apparent. My favorite set is Bulk Up/Substitute/Drain Punch/Poison Jab, but Sucker Punch or Knock Off is good for some builds as well. I like to punish forced switches with Substitute more, but yeah. Opponents sometimes seem to expect Sucker Punch even when I'm not carrying it. I've ended a few would-be set up sweeps by immediately bringing Toxicroak in to bluff as though I'm going for a revenge kill with it even if I don't have it.
Defensively, despite the lack of amazing defensive stats, the lack of fear of both Scald and Toxic make it a tremendous force against stall as well.
tl;dr Toxicroak is easily one of the best mons in RU and has a strong, comfortable presence against offensive, balance, and stall-oriented teams. I think it should be bumped up to A+ or potentially S-rank.
Edit: my ladder alt on PS is Noh Noh
I think Toxicroak deserves a jump to A+ or maybe even S-rank because from the playing I've experienced, it's such a metagame-defining mon. By virtue of its Dry Skin ability and the resistances it already has, it is able to wall an insane amount of things, including but not limited to Milotic, Araquanid, Golisopod, Mantine (unless it has Air Slash, the ones I've seen seem to prefer Toxic), Tsareena, and Virizion. It's such an amazing team glue and go-to mon for when any Water, Dark, or Fighting attack or a Toxic is coming and you need a safe switch. Once it's on a roll, it can even hold its own against Mega Sceptile, Mega Blastoise, Florges, Roserade, and Drapion. The amount of opportunities Toxicroak gets to either set up, take momentum, or just wall something to death is insane. Its versatility makes it additionally hard to deal with until its set becomes apparent. My favorite set is Bulk Up/Substitute/Drain Punch/Poison Jab, but Sucker Punch or Knock Off is good for some builds as well. I like to punish forced switches with Substitute more, but yeah. Opponents sometimes seem to expect Sucker Punch even when I'm not carrying it. I've ended a few would-be set up sweeps by immediately bringing Toxicroak in to bluff as though I'm going for a revenge kill with it even if I don't have it.
Defensively, despite the lack of amazing defensive stats, the lack of fear of both Scald and Toxic make it a tremendous force against stall as well.
tl;dr Toxicroak is easily one of the best mons in RU and has a strong, comfortable presence against offensive, balance, and stall-oriented teams. I think it should be bumped up to A+ or potentially S-rank.
Edit: my ladder alt on PS is Noh Noh
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Since gen 8 has already started, i'm gonna quickly make a post during the beta.
RISES:
Slurpuff C >> C+
Slurpuff's threatening move, Belly Drum, and with the Ability Unburden makes it an outspeeding monster. There's a lot of times where you could bring Slurpuff in on a Pokémon like Sawk and use Belly Drum. It also has a limited but decent movepool and in terms of power, still outspeeds stronger Pokémon like Snorlax.
Milotic B+ >> A
Miotic is probably one of the best special walls in the tier. It can even cripple physical attackers with its Scald and switch them out with Dragon Tail. It has a bunch of moves to help it stall (Rest, + Sleep Talk, Substitute, Toxic, Magic Coat, etc.)
Xatu B >> B+
Xatu is actually pretty underrated in RU teams. It can bounce off hazards and get rid of the rest of the opposing hazards with Defog. It's movepool has a bunch of options that make it a support Pokémon like Tailwind, Trick, Thunder Wave or Toxic. Xatu can fit on a lot of balance teams.
DROPS:
Shaymin A- >> B+
Shaymin is laughably weak compared to Mega Sceptile. It can't do much damage with its offensive sets like Z-Celebrate. It does have a wide movepool, but can't really fit in into offensive teams.
Donphan A >> A-
Donphan is good, but not that good. It's slow compared to other Stealth Rock users, making it limited to using it's moves. It relies on using Endeavor on offensive leads rather than setting up Stealth Rocks, making it less viable in this case.
RISES:
Slurpuff's threatening move, Belly Drum, and with the Ability Unburden makes it an outspeeding monster. There's a lot of times where you could bring Slurpuff in on a Pokémon like Sawk and use Belly Drum. It also has a limited but decent movepool and in terms of power, still outspeeds stronger Pokémon like Snorlax.
Miotic is probably one of the best special walls in the tier. It can even cripple physical attackers with its Scald and switch them out with Dragon Tail. It has a bunch of moves to help it stall (Rest, + Sleep Talk, Substitute, Toxic, Magic Coat, etc.)
Xatu is actually pretty underrated in RU teams. It can bounce off hazards and get rid of the rest of the opposing hazards with Defog. It's movepool has a bunch of options that make it a support Pokémon like Tailwind, Trick, Thunder Wave or Toxic. Xatu can fit on a lot of balance teams.
DROPS:
Shaymin is laughably weak compared to Mega Sceptile. It can't do much damage with its offensive sets like Z-Celebrate. It does have a wide movepool, but can't really fit in into offensive teams.
Donphan is good, but not that good. It's slow compared to other Stealth Rock users, making it limited to using it's moves. It relies on using Endeavor on offensive leads rather than setting up Stealth Rocks, making it less viable in this case.
Are we getting a final VR update??