Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion (Usage stats in post #944)

[Robot7620]

Pretty close to getting reqs so far. Obviously, the metagame is an absolute mess right now. For the most part, I've just been using hyper offense. I think my favourite new addition is dragapult; that thing absolutely shreds, and it's so versatile that it's not so difficult to put your opponent on the spot and force them to guess your set. Nowhere near ban worthy, but an amazing new addition to the metagame.

Corviknight is another cool mon that I've enjoyed using and, especially with dynamax, it can pull off some really interesting sets. I'm not really sure that I see a niche for it after the inevitable dynamax ban though.

Special shoutout to dracovish for being stupid as hell. It's not so bad for the fast teams I've been using, but it's just a ridiculous addition that runs counter to the "balancing" that was supposedly done this gen.

Moody kinda sucks tbh. I've faced a fair few moody teams without too many issues. Unless you misplay badly, the chances of something like a Glalie / Octillery snowballing enough to cause any problems to a decent OU team is pretty tiny. Still, it's a stupid mechanic that reduces things to luck, and doesn't really have a place in the tier.

This is untrue
While Max Airstream boosts are quite nice stuff like BP Corviknight, Utility, and Power Trip and function w/out Dynamaxing.
While SUB-BU and even Power Trip will take a hit from the lack of speed boosts (SUB-BU in particular) Corviknight will remain an excellent defensive steel and ground immunity in one. Utility in particular will rise up; not having to sponge powerful attacks at +1 or more, and not being dead weight when it comes to dynamax potential will definitely do it good; plus balance will finally find a niche post-dynamax ban and Utility is excellent at shutting down stuff like Pex, Ferro and GCor (maybe even the rare defensive clefable)

 

[Gary]

As long as Excadrill exists in this meta, Corviknight will have a niche. Mold Breaker sets are fucking impossible to reliably switch into outside of like Mandi, Corsola, and Corvi, the former being vulnerable to Slide/Iron and it can't really touch SD sets unless it runs Foul Play. With the transition from SM to SS it lost a huge majority of its defensive counterplay, most notably Lando-T, Tangrowth, Steela, Glisc, Skarm, Zap, etc. It's also a pretty unexplored Pokemon in general, and I think Band and Scarf Driller have a lot of future potential. Corvi is legit one of the only Pokemon in the tier that can actually reliably take it on and isn't like a massive momentum sucker like Corsola. Corvi's niche will just be more defensively biased instead of trying to pull off sweeps with max boosting moves.

 

[JTD783]

Gonna give some thoughts on mons while I work on getting reqs.

top tier and broken shit

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Godlike. Never fails to put in work. S+ easy and until Dynamax goes it will stay there.



Low-key busted. Sub Bulk Up is terrifying for fat teams to face and nothing (afaik) can keep rocks up against Defog sets. Also the best Excadrill counter (only counter) we have. Love it.



High-key busted. Nothing like 2HKOing bulky resists... at worst. Most teams are forced to run a Water Absorb mon just to check it, because nothing aside from an immunity is safe. Band fucks balance and stall (if it even exists), Scarf fucks offense.



Frosty the GOATman. No switchins exist, everything either dies or gets U-Turned on. Scarf and Band are both great. Super fun to use.
CBCBDARM



Better in practice than on paper. Mixed LO is fun, Specs is a bitch to switch into, and Sub Disable looks nice. Haven't used DD but maybe it's decent? Godlike speed tier, solid typing, big threat. No team is safe.



Same shit, excellent as always. Most teams can find a way to fit this in.



See above



Pretty busted. Corviknight is all that stops it from being banned imo. What dumbass at GameFreak made Rapid Spin boost speed holy shit. Sand Rush and Mold Breaker are both very good.



Scarf is probably good, but Sub NP Dark Pulse Flash Cannon is disgusting and bends every team over. Just watch out for Infiltrator Dragapult.

good shit

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Strong and fast under rain. Basically a less bulky Mega Swampert with a typing that's worse defensively but better offensively.



Defensive is still good, but LO is great. No switchins to this thing.



Hits insanely hard with busted coverage. It can honestly 6-0 teams from turn 1 if they don't have priority or Ditto.



Ridiculously powerful and the best Trick Room abuser in the tier. Best Toxapex answer too, and can singlehandedly rip fat cores apart in general. Easy high tier.



Was skeptical at first, but its bulk and godlike coverage makes it a menace, especially under Trick Room. Will be even better once Dynamax is gone since Heavy Slam and Heat Crash fail against them currently.



The Chad Klefki. Prankster T Wave and screens is nice and its defensive utility in general is helpful. Offensive sets should be explored more.



Timbs + Court Change is really cool and it makes for a great pivot. Will be crazy good once Libero is released.



Slept-on threat. Ditto is all that stops it from dominating the meta.



Offensive Mew is so good, seriously DD Psychic Fangs EQ Close Combat is just absurd. Also works as a fat pivot, but purely defensive sets won't work unless Recover becomes available with Home's release. Slept on.



Crushes fat teams and pressures offense with Volt Switch spam. Hates Excadrill's existence sadly. SG 3 attacks might be decent but Specs is fantastic. One of the best Toxapex answers in the tier.

shit

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Really don't have anything to say here yet, as very few new mons strike me as having no real niche in OU. Maybe stuff like Dubwool, Crawmorant, Greedent, Arctovish, Arctozolt, most G max mons, Falinks. That said, I hope people keep testing them out as the meta develops, there's always new discoveries to be made. Hell I remember when Kartana was like B- and Kommo-O had really low usage in SM OU so don't write things off if they seem mediocre at first.

There's a lot more worth mentioning but I'm already procrastinating during finals week so I'm not about to dig a deeper hole by going on about them.

Thank god Moody is banned. With STag, Moody, and (presumably) Dynamax gone, this meta will be great.

 

[blunder]

Ive been on a quest to use as many gmax pokemon as i can before gmax gets banned so i wanted to post some of the ones ive had good success with so people can use them for a few more days before it's off the ladder. shoutout ctc for everything besides centiskorch/copperajah

most recent pokemon i tried out. Way better than i expected but fire type + heavy duty boots is just a really good combo. it has good defense and can switch into life orb clef moonblast it does around 25% and it's pretty easy to get up spikes. ability is cool i've had some success with it where I gmax on some scald mon, tank and then get +6 speed. the gmax move is g max volcalith which damages opposing team for 5 turns which is really cool too. it's fun pokemon all around kind of like flareon but can do some offensive tricks and spikes is always great

My man mimolette put me on to this i was originally using coil gmax which is seriously bad but this is the set to use for sure. bug coverage kinda bad only hits hydreigon and thunder fang lets u kill pex with max lightning after u trap it with gmax centiferno. this thing is pretty average all around but it can definitely get some kills and its faster than it looks with 251 speed stat. knock off lets u ohko dragapult and cripple shit too it's definitely worth using and really fun

pretty good mon all around, gmax replenish give you your berry back so u can basically restochest twice if you play it nice. it's a hard mon to sweep with in a lot of games since offense can get through it and ferrothorn also is really annoying, also haze pex etc, but in some matchups u can get a few kills.

capper raj my favorite gmax ! This set anti created and gave me day 1 of ss and it really puts in a lot of work. the coverage is great and lets you kill seismitoad and corviknight and stuff like that although you are walled by pex but it's cooler to hit seismitoad imo. stealth rock is stealth rock and the gmax move sets up steel type sr. i've had a lot of games where i could get both hazards up and it really helps. i've used life orb sheer force raj on trick room but i don't like it much compared to this. that one had rock slide eq heavy slam and something else

Super good mon, in general grimmsnarl is great but this is what i used when i ran gmax instead of like screens or assault vest. life orb is so u can ohko pex at +1 and gmax snooze forces a lot of switches and is a great move. i like this mon a lot cuz his sucker punch hits hard and u can have some utility with it pre gmax and post gmax which is great. underrated threat for sure

this one's really really bad. it did nothing for me almost every game however its gmax move sets up gravity and i had it paired with sand excadrill so that was a cool tech but it's seriously weak and +1 cant ko anything and web is not good enough to warrant using this. it's fun though and cool design

only other mon i wanted to try but have not yet is gmax charizard it seems really good so someone link me some good stuff with that

 

[furyofyuriy]

During the outbreak of Moody Glalie, i asked myself why many were struggling with this set. Moody aside, it only had one move: Freeze Dry. Then i decided to look at the OU list for this generation and i discovered that of the 30 Pokemon currently in OU 14 of them are weak to Freeze Dry and 4 or quad weak due to Freeze Dry's ability to hit water.

This glaring weakness drew my attention to Vanilluxe. With Alolan Ninetails currently locked behind HOME release, the ice cream is currently the best user of Freeze Dry this generation with a base Special Attack of 110.

Wall Breaker Vanilliuxe
Nature: Modest/Timid
Item: Choice Specs
Snow Warning
Spatk 252/ Spd 252/ Spdef 4
Freeze Dry
Flash Cannon
Hyper Voice
Aurora Veil/Icy Wind

As in prior gens, Vaniluxe has awful coverage, hurt more by the removal of Hidden Power. It can't hit steel types for anything. But as mentioned before, Freeze Dry hits many mons for x2 damage this gen, including the bulky waters that are running around to stop mons like Dracovish and G-Darm.

With a Timid nature, Hail and Freeze Dry is a 2hko on Toxapex and a roughly 7% OHKO after rocks. Running modest with rocks jumps your OHKO rate to 62.5 %. Clefable gets hurt badly by Flash Canon but will always result in a 2hko against Magic Guard Life orb (Missing lethal in the max roll by 1%)

Timid vs Modest is pivotal in this set. Modest hits harder and still out speed Adamant Band Dracozolt/ Dracovish, but loses to Jolly in speed. But timid will always result in you going first against non scarfed sets and result in a KO.

As for the last moves... well they are filler. Hyper Voice gives you nice neutral coverage and the last slot is literally because there is nothing else this thing can learn. Veil should be used if you know you will go down or get knocked off for support, while icy wind can at least lower speed for something else to net a KO for you.

 

[Eeveeto]

During the outbreak of Moody Glalie, i asked myself why many were struggling with this set. Moody aside, it only had one move: Freeze Dry. Then i decided to look at the OU list for this generation and i discovered that of the 30 Pokemon currently in OU 14 of them are weak to Freeze Dry and 4 or quad weak due to Freeze Dry's ability to hit water.

This glaring weakness drew my attention to Vanilluxe. With Alolan Ninetails currently locked behind HOME release, the ice cream is currently the best user of Freeze Dry this generation with a base Special Attack of 110.

Wall Breaker Vanilliuxe
Nature: Modest/Timid
Item: Choice Specs
Snow Warning
Spatk 252/ Spd 252/ Spdef 4
Freeze Dry
Flash Cannon
Hyper Voice
Aurora Veil/Icy Wind

As in prior gens, Vaniluxe has awful coverage, hurt more by the removal of Hidden Power. It can't hit steel types for anything. But as mentioned before, Freeze Dry hits many mons for x2 damage this gen, including the bulky waters that are running around to stop mons like Dracovish and G-Darm.

With a Timid nature, Hail and Freeze Dry is a 2hko on Toxapex and a roughly 7% OHKO after rocks. Running modest with rocks jumps your OHKO rate to 62.5 %. Clefable gets hurt badly by Flash Canon but will always result in a 2hko against Magic Guard Life orb (Missing lethal in the max roll by 1%)

Timid vs Modest is pivotal in this set. Modest hits harder and still out speed Adamant Band Dracozolt/ Dracovish, but loses to Jolly in speed. But timid will always result in you going first against non scarfed sets and result in a KO.

As for the last moves... well they are filler. Hyper Voice gives you nice neutral coverage and the last slot is literally because there is nothing else this thing can learn. Veil should be used if you know you will go down or get knocked off for support, while icy wind can at least lower speed for something else to net a KO for you.

Confirming, this Mon is good. But use it with Blizzard, since when you don,t need Freeze Dry it hits much harder and doesn,t miss in Hail.

Glaceon is another Specs Ice Mon that gets Freeze Dry now and despite its fair share of problemas (slow, not very bulky, Mono-Ice, gets almost no coverage), it has 130 base Special Attack. Will of course get obsolete when Kyurem gets released ( same Special Attack, higher other Stats, gets Freeze Dry too and a second STAB), for now both Vanilluxe and Glaceon are nice anti-meta picks.

 

[EternalDream]

Confirming, this Mon is good. But use it with Blizzard, since when you don,t need Freeze Dry it hits much harder and doesn,t miss in Hail.

Glaceon is another Specs Ice Mon that gets Freeze Dry now and despite its fair share of problemas (slow, not very bulky, Mono-Ice, gets almost no coverage), it has 130 base Special Attack. Will of course get obsolete when Kyurem gets released ( same Special Attack, higher other Stats, gets Freeze Dry too and a second STAB), for now both Vanilluxe and Glaceon are nice anti-meta picks.

Seeing how good Freeze-Dry is in the current meta, I wonder if our weaker tao trio dragon won't become a bit too good for SwSh OU. Kyurem-B is already a dead ringer for getting banned this time and that's merely because DDance + Icicle Spear got added to Kyurem's learnset via TM/TR, and base can run mixed slightly better than W or B as it has 130 to both attacking stats over a 120/170 split between, while having the same speed and HP otherwise.

 

[FlockOfFlames]

Might be a naive question but why do we allow more and more powerful wallbreaker each gen in OU? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like some hit harder than mewtwo now and an entire playstyle (stall) is getting completely invalidated by those. Previous powercreeps also get invalidated because they can't keep up with the new ones each gens (thinking of mons like terrakion and salamence).

It's not a salty thing, im genuinely curious about the reasoning behind dracovish and darm in OU for example, and the different powercreeps before that in previous gens.

I KNOW they have counterplay and aren't broken blahblah I'm just talking about the sheer power here and the difference with mons like non-mega mewtwo for example that are considered Ubers because of the powercreep capability.

 

[LordHelix]

Might be a naive question but why do we allow more and more powerful wallbreaker each gen in OU? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like some hit harder than mewtwo now and an entire playstyle (stall) is getting completely invalidated by those. Previous powercreeps also get invalidated because they can't keep up with the new ones each gens (thinking of mons like terrakion and salamence).

It's not a salty thing, im genuinely curious about the reasoning behind dracovish and darm in OU for example, and the different powercreeps before that in previous gens.

I KNOW they have counterplay and aren't broken blahblah I'm just talking about the sheer power here and the difference with mons like non-mega mewtwo for example that are considered Ubers because of the powercreep capability.

Relax its the first month, nobody said they wont be suspected. Theres just currently a suspect going on atm thats why we cant take action against something else at the same time

If youre worried that theyll be allowing shit like how kartana, mawile and magearna was allowed to stay last gen dont worry, theyre dicussing it in policy review and most people agree that we shouldve had more suspects in sm. Just gotta wait for now

 

[zakurenai]

Might be a naive question but why do we allow more and more powerful wallbreaker each gen in OU? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like some hit harder than mewtwo now and an entire playstyle (stall) is getting completely invalidated by those. Previous powercreeps also get invalidated because they can't keep up with the new ones each gens (thinking of mons like terrakion and salamence).


It's not a salty thing, im genuinely curious about the reasoning behind dracovish and darm in OU for example, and the different powercreeps before that in previous gens.


I KNOW they have counterplay and aren't broken blahblah I'm just talking about the sheer power here and the difference with mons like non-mega mewtwo for example that are considered Ubers because of the powercreep capability.

Dracovish should be getting suspected soon. Its Fishous Rend damage is comparable to CB Rampardos Head Smash/CB Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz. However, unlike the aforementioned two, Dracovish doesn't have awful defenses, an awful typing, and staggering recoil keeping it in check. I can't see the OU Council letting something like this run around. The template for teambuilding shouldn't be "5 mons + Water Absorb/Storm Drain user"

 

[Wolf]

Dracovish should be getting suspected soon. Its Fishous Rend damage is comparable to CB Rampardos Head Smash/CB Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz. However, unlike the aforementioned two, Dracovish doesn't have awful defenses, an awful typing, and staggering recoil keeping it in check. I can't see the OU Council letting something like this run around. The template for teambuilding shouldn't be "5 mons + Water Absorb/Storm Drain user"

Calm down boy, we dont want to rush everything. Yes, we are demanding some suspects to be done because we believe that some things need to be looked at, but this doesnt mean well ban every living mon on this tier. We are currently having more issues with the likes of dyna/gigamax & Darm-G than anything else, so lets do this in the right order.

And a lot of people will agree with this (even some of our fellow Council fellas) ; Draco is not nearly as restricting as Dyna/Darm.

 

[zakurenai]

Calm down boy, we dont want to rush everything. Yes, we are demanding some suspects to be done because we believe that some things need to be looked at, but this doesnt mean well ban every living mon on this tier. We are currently having more issues with the likes of dyna/gigamax & Darm-G than anything else, so lets do this in the right order.


And a lot of people will agree with this (even some of our fellow Council fellas) ; Draco is not nearly as restricting as Dyna/Darm.

I am calm, boy. The other guy was also told to "relax" for some strange reason. Anyway, I was replying to the other guy to reassure him that the Council is probably going to act on his concerns soon, and that they probably aren't sitting and twiddling their thumbs. You didn't even need to reply to me. Your snarky reply is how these "back and forths" get started.

 

[Empress Mobile]

Calm down boy, we dont want to rush everything. Yes, we are demanding some suspects to be done because we believe that some things need to be looked at, but this doesnt mean well ban every living mon on this tier. We are currently having more issues with the likes of dyna/gigamax & Darm-G than anything else, so lets do this in the right order.

And a lot of people will agree with this (even some of our fellow Council fellas) ; Draco is not nearly as restricting as Dyna/Darm.

I'd say Dracovish is considerably worse than G Darm, since it's actually pretty easy to offensively check G Darm due to its underwhelming bulk, horrific defensive typing and only decent speed. There are a number of faster Scarf users that easily drop G Darm after Rocks, that would have no such luck with Dracovish. I think both need to go, but I think Dracovish should be the next suspect after Dynamax due to the way it restricts teambuilding. Virtually all of the water immune Pokemon are easy to take advantage of with the appropriate switch in.

 

[Dobyjack]

Don’t know if it’s been asked was trying to read all the post but there are a lot.

what is the best EntryHazard setters? Was going through the list a figured Ferrothorn but just curious if a better option. Mainly want spikes and Stealth rocks. Thanks!

 

[Jobes]

Don’t know if it’s been asked was trying to read all the post but there are a lot.

what is the best EntryHazard setters? Was going through the list a figured Ferrothorn but just curious if a better option. Mainly want spikes and Stealth rocks. Thanks!

Mold Breaker Excadrill, Seismitoed, Galarian Corsola are the most common rock setters in the meta I'd say.

 

[xOliver]

Under rapid spinners you have dhelmise and no picture as well as turtonator with no name

 

[Pabloaram]

Don’t know if it’s been asked was trying to read all the post but there are a lot.

what is the best EntryHazard setters? Was going through the list a figured Ferrothorn but just curious if a better option. Mainly want spikes and Stealth rocks. Thanks!

Mold Breaker Excadrill, Seismitoed, Galarian Corsola are the most common rock setters in the meta I'd say.

New Thread of Rol Comprendium is now open in OU if you want to see al viable hazzard setter

 

[Dragoon Rider]

Gonna impart 2 powerful mons with unusual sets here that I used to get reqs. Maybe I'll make an RMT later since the team I used was so fun and solid, though it has weaknesses of course.

@ Life Orb
Modest Nature
248 Hp / 8 Def / 164 SpA / 84 SpDef / 4 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

Probably the most powerful (but without being clearly broken) mon in any metagame. LO is already popular and strong, but by forgoing moonlight you maintain perfect coverage and can easily threaten anything slower. This stops you from being walled by both ferro and pex, while also being able to boost past bulky pokemon like Corviknight and Jellicent. If you don't have all 3 moves, you will often just be walled every other game. CMLO clef can often just set up for free on something like pex or seismitoad and immediately proceed to pick up 3-4 KOs even against very good players and teams. Just because there really isn't anything that can deal with it. Also, if your opponent sees CM and thunderbolt, they won't expect their ferrothorn to be fire blasted. Poison moves are nonexistant and there is pretty much only one steel type that can actually revenge you, which can't even switch in safely at all. Clefable has great bulk as well, so I found it better to actually invest in defenses rather than speed or maxing special attack. It can tank a +2 hydreigon flash cannon and Jolly exca Iron Head with the right investment.

@ Assault Vest
Careful Nature
104 HP / 252 SpDef / 152 Spe
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Tomb
- Rapid Spin

AV drill fulfills the niche of being a steel type than can remove hazards while keeping the fairies, psychics, some ghosts, and toxtricity at bay. This set is surprisingly useful for being an initial switch into Clefable, Togekiss, and Hatterene. Even their super effective moves aren't doing too much. LO Clef flamethrower doesn't 2HKO. Hydreigon's +2 dark pulse doesn't 2HKO. Toxtricity boomburst does like 28%. You can't wall them forever since you don't have recovery. Dril just keeps them away until you can hopefully break their team first. Rock tomb is a neat option for slowing down max airstream. Also if something like dragapult switches in, you can outspeed it the next turn. Mold breaker EQ is very difficult to switch into if they don't have mandibuzz, avaluGG, hippo, or corviknight. Corviknight just completely shuts exca down which is annoying so you have to have good answers to it.

I updated with EVs:
- Clef's EVs allow her to have an 88% of living +2 flash cannon from hydreigon. KOs sassy 252 / 232 ferrothorn after rocks and does 100% min to 4 HP excadrill with fire blast.
- AV Dril outspeeds neutral natured dracozolt and toxtricity with 152 Spe. Max SpDef instead of HP for better special tanking. You can also just run max speed jolly to beat rotom and togekiss but rotom seem to be mostly scarf.

 

[658Greninja]

Gonna impart 2 powerful mons with unusual sets here that I used to get reqs. Maybe I'll make an RMT later since the team I used was so fun and solid, though it has weaknesses of course.

View attachment 211395
@ Life Orb
Modest Nature
248 Hp / 8 Def / 164 SpA / 84 SpDef / 4 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

Probably the most powerful (but without being clearly broken) mon in any metagame. LO is already popular and strong, but by forgoing moonlight you maintain perfect coverage and can easily threaten anything slower. This stops you from being walled by both ferro and pex, while also being able to boost past bulky pokemon like Corviknight and Jellicent. If you don't have all 3 moves, you will often just be walled every other game. CMLO clef can often just set up for free on something like pex or seismitoad and immediately proceed to pick up 3-4 KOs even against very good players and teams. Just because there really isn't anything that can deal with it. Also, if your opponent sees CM and thunderbolt, they won't expect their ferrothorn to be fire blasted. Poison moves are nonexistant and there is pretty much only one steel type that can actually revenge you, which can't even switch in safely at all. Clefable has great bulk as well, so I found it better to actually invest in defenses rather than speed or maxing special attack. It can tank a +2 hydreigon flash cannon and Jolly exca Iron Head with the right investment.

View attachment 211397
@ Assault Vest
Careful Nature
104 HP / 252 SpDef / 152 Spe
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Tomb
- Rapid Spin

AV drill fulfills the niche of being a steel type than can remove hazards while keeping the fairies, psychics, some ghosts, and toxtricity at bay. This set is surprisingly useful for being an initial switch into Clefable, Togekiss, and Hatterene. Even their super effective moves aren't doing too much. LO Clef flamethrower doesn't 2HKO. Hydreigon's +2 dark pulse doesn't 2HKO. Toxtricity boomburst does like 28%. You can't wall them forever since you don't have recovery. Dril just keeps them away until you can hopefully break their team first. Rock tomb is a neat option for slowing down max airstream. Also if something like dragapult switches in, you can outspeed it the next turn. Mold breaker EQ is very difficult to switch into if they don't have mandibuzz, avaluGG, hippo, or corviknight. Corviknight just completely shuts exca down which is annoying so you have to have good answers to it.

CM LO Clef and AV Drill sound legit. I would like to see their ev spreads.

 

[tmacbalanced]

After doing a lot of laddering and reading a LOT of posts, I took into consideration how strong Dracovish is and decided to make some funky sets with it.
Dracovish @ Expert Belt
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Super Fang
- Low Kick / Substitute
- Psychic Fangs
This set is very good at breaking fat mons, including water immune mons. The point of the set is for surprise KOs & being to freely use any move without being locked into Fishious Rend on a water immune mon. The speed EVs allow you to outspeed adamant Bisharp. Expert Belt is for bluffing Choice Scarf/Band. Super Fang is used to help wear down Seismitoad & the rare Gastrodon. You can also sub up to dodge wisp & strength sap from corsola-galar to safely 2HKO with Fishious Rend. Low Kick is primarily used for Ferrothorn.
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Corsola-Galar: 171-202 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Expert Belt Dracovish Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 175-206 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Expert Belt Dracovish Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 245-290 (75.3 - 89.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Expert Belt Strong Jaw Dracovish Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 151-180 (49.6 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Corviknight: 340-402 (85 - 100.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[PimpParasect]

I'd say Dracovish is considerably worse than G Darm, since it's actually pretty easy to offensively check G Darm due to its underwhelming bulk, horrific defensive typing and only decent speed. There are a number of faster Scarf users that easily drop G Darm after Rocks, that would have no such luck with Dracovish. I think both need to go, but I think Dracovish should be the next suspect after Dynamax due to the way it restricts teambuilding. Virtually all of the water immune Pokemon are easy to take advantage of with the appropriate switch in.

I think vish at least can get checked by water absorb, storm drain, and RK'd by dragapult (+speed nature dragapult outspeeds max-scarf by 11.), fishious rend is what sets it over the edge when you combine rain, STAB, banded, strong jaw, and double power on the move, but everything else in its arsenal is managable (base 90 power isn't as broken with strong jaw). Quagsire is a pretty good check to it, and that fell UU.

With darm.. not only does it have base 140 power so everything is immidiately threatening about it, but also gets a +50% boost to its attack from its ability, on top of either running band for even more power, or running scarf to make revenge killing it harder (unless you run scarf on pult specifically for this thing). Checks are limited since there are no immunities to its STAB, and switchins to its stab still suffer from flare blitz and earthquake. Its a lot harder to counter a darm (and I've ran into a lot of anti-meta belly drum zen mode sets that catch me off guard after they bluff being choiced a few times against slower mons.. so there's that to worry about too.)

Either way, both are bonkers.

 

[Divine Retribution]

I think vish at least can get checked by water absorb, storm drain, and RK'd by dragapult (+speed nature dragapult outspeeds max-scarf by 11.), fishious rend is what sets it over the edge when you combine rain, STAB, banded, strong jaw, and double power on the move, but everything else in its arsenal is managable (base 90 power isn't as broken with strong jaw). Quagsire is a pretty good check to it, and that fell UU.

With darm.. not only does it have base 140 power so everything is immidiately threatening about it, but also gets a +50% boost to its attack from its ability, on top of either running band for even more power, or running scarf to make revenge killing it harder (unless you run scarf on pult specifically for this thing). Checks are limited since there are no immunities to its STAB, and switchins to its stab still suffer from flare blitz and earthquake. Its a lot harder to counter a darm (and I've ran into a lot of anti-meta belly drum zen mode sets that catch me off guard after they bluff being choiced a few times against slower mons.. so there's that to worry about too.)

Either way, both are bonkers.

Personally I think Darm should be suspected before Vish, but I honestly think they should both go in the long run. In practice, Darm restricts counterplay more than Vish does, but when it comes to teambuilding Vish is very restrictive as well, to what I personally feel is an unhealthy degree.

I suppose if Dynamax is banned my opinion on this could change slightly. Part of what makes Darm so busted in my opinion its its ability to shed its Choice lock at will and turn the tables on what otherwise was a good prediction. Vish on the other hand really isn't even a good Dynamax user, so if anything I feel like it benefits from Dynamax being banned as it means random mons can't Dynamax to tank a Fishious Rend to deal with it in a pinch.

 

[squidflip]

Has trick room in this OU been discussed at all? With G-Max Hatterene and Copperajah, along with great setters from last gen like Reuniclus and new ones like Runerigus, I think Trick Room is going to end up being pretty viable. I've been using an offensive trick room team with a runerigus lead and sweepers like Crawdaunt, Reuniclus and Sirfetch'd and it's been going pretty good.

Also, sleep talk Dubwool is an excellent late game cleaner with cotton guard and body press. Get rid of the ghost types and you're set. I'm thinking it'll stay in UU though or rot in UUBL, I'm not sure.

 

[Morkal]

I might be a little controversial on this. But I don't think either G-Darm or Dracovish should be the first choices for a suspect after the post-dynamax metagame settles a little. Sure, look at them later, but there's another Pokemon that is already a little busted, but will get even more busted once its Dynamax counters are gone.

Excadrill​

This Pokemon is an absolute nightmare right now. Let me explain why.

- A good portion of Excadrill's checks and counters were nuked in #dexit, meaning that (especially when Dynamax is banned) options to handle it are going to be incredibly pressed.
- Tyranitar spam is more common than ever before.
- The BIGGEST buff was the speed boost that Rapid Spin gives. Excadrill's main issue was always speed (base 88 isn't good, but is definitely better in this meta than it was in Gen 7), and now it doesn't even need sand to rectify the speed issue + get extra utility, it's just yet another additional tool in its arsenal.
- Access to Heavy Duty Boots to ignore hazards is a godsend, especially for the best Rapid Spinner in OU to get rid of Webs, Rocks, etc, and access to Air Balloon means Ditto can't revenge kill with EQ.

I'm not saying it's as busted NOW, but give it a month after the dynamax ban and I think you guys are going to see a Pokemon reach almost Gen 5 OU Excadrill levels of broken (yes I still miss weather wars).

 

[Nugget]

Dracovish @ Expert Belt
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Super Fang
- Low Kick / Substitute
- Psychic Fangs

Honestly I thought Dracovish was reasonable until I starting running into sub Draco and now I'm not so sure lol
I've never seen/been hit by a Super Fang on this guy but we all know what you're really gonna click when Dracovish is in
Fishous Rend really changes the implications of speed control. If you're paralyzed, Dracovish eats you. And if he ever comes in for free it's the classic "pick one" scenario. (and if you know they need to save whatever's in front of you and switch to a sac then you get a sub and win the game)

Love to run non-choice Dracovish alongside t-wave grimmsnarl, maybe set up some screens and just blow through the other team. You don't even really need rain, you barely need chip damage
you comfortably 2HKO stuff like Mandibuzz and Corviknight from 100% and you 2HKO max defense corsola with rocks up. You can't OHKO toxapex without band and rain but honestly the fact that *that* works is disrespectful towards all of creation