Tournament Most Wanted - Tour Feedback & Set / Team Dump

Minority

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Coming to the end of Most Wanted Nayrz and I wanted to gauge the opinions of the tournament and consolidate discussion on new developments / teams. Feel free to format you team / set dump and discussion as you see fit. If you post in regards to format discussion try to identify an objective strength or weakness of the tour format, and then subsequently suggest implementable changes that improve said aspect without introducing other problems. In my experience hosting and working through the statistics of the Tournament Standings Sheet, these are my conclusions:

Strengths:
- The entire framework of the tour demands strategy in addition to the games played within its framework
- In contrast to UPL this tour is climatic and builds momentum
- Teams have to severely underperform to be considered out before the final week, where in UPL teams can easily be out after just the 3rd or 4th week
- Players are matched against players of similar bounty, often resulting in more exciting pairings each week
- The bounty system adds hype to individual player streaks, and as a constant metric of tour performance
- The aspect of player eliminations in a team tour setting raises stakes and adds a sense of permanence to wins that cause elimination
- There is more freedom and flexibility in drafting strategy since a locked number of tiers don't need to be filled each week
- The format incentivizes players to try tiers they are less familiar with or we don't usually get to see them in
- The tour begins with teams on more equal footing as compared to UPL
- The bounty system was simple to manage and can easily be automated

Weaknesses:
- There is an under-emphasis on old gens
- The final week was largely overshadowed by Garay vs. Dom as this was the major decider in team standings
- The ability for a single player, even with incredible performance, to entirely carry their team to victory is questionable for a team tour
- Assassin matchups too greatly undercut excellent player performance earlier in the tour
- High numbers of assassin matchups in a given week invalidate some of the benefit of being an assassin
- The degree of player elimination was arguably too high due to the pool size compared to the number of weeks played
- The bounty cap of 300,000 was too high to create any substantial short-term pressure
- The format is unfriendly to inactivity or players who cancer
- Post-lineup correspondence and movement of players outside their selected tiers to create even pools are not desirable

I tried to identify an equal number of strengths and weaknesses; however, I think the strengths of the format outweigh the weaknesses and that said weaknesses can be addressed in a future iteration. In conclusion, considering how different the tour is from anything we've done before it mostly ran smoothly. As expected six teams of nine ended up being too small to maintain healthy pools for six tiers, and also meant not many players were able to survive the full length of the tournament. I'll likely post my thoughts on some strategies and changes to the format that would play up the strengths and minimize the weaknesses.

Victory:

• The first team to achieve 300,000 bounty by the end of a given week is the winner
• If two teams manage to achieve 300,000 bounty by the end of the same week, the team that exceeds by a higher margin is the winner
• If no team achieves 300,000 bounty by the end of Week 7, the team with the highest bounty upon the conclusion of Week 7 is the winner

Team Formation:

• Teams will be formed though a snake draft
• Draft order is randomly assigned

Bounty:

• Bounty is held by each player and a team’s bounty is equal to the sum of all its player’s bounties
• A player’s initial bounty is determined by draft position
• All captains have an initial bounty of 20,000

Team & Player Quantities:

• There will be exactly six (6) teams
• Each team will have exactly nine (9) players
• The total number of initial players will therefore be fifty-four (54)

Tier Support & Registration

• Only strict generation tiers will be supported. This means no special tiers such as Best of Three Smogon Tour, etc.
• All battles will be best of one
• At signup, players will register for exactly three (3) of the supported tiers
• Captains may not submit lineups with more than three (3) players in a given tier per week
• Players may freely change tiers every week, but may only play tiers that they registered for at signup
• Tiers that receive less than two (2) matchups in a given week will be declared dead and will be removed for the remainder of the tournament. All remaining players registered in a tier that is declared dead will swap their registration for one of the remaining tiers.

Benching:

• A team may bench no more than one (1) player per week
• A player may not be benched for consecutive weeks
• Activity losses are treated the same as normal losses
• Players in a "dead game" will not lose bounty, but will lose a life. A player killed by a dead game will have their bounty split between the highest valued players that are not on their team.

Matchups:

• Weekly matchups are determined by a player’s bounty at the start of the week
• Players in a given tier are sorted by bounty and matched against their closest neighbor from top to bottom
• Two or more players with equally close neighbors will be randomly determined
• In the event that an odd number of players register for a tier, the lowest bounty player will be required to select another tier in which they are registered. If no alternate tier with an odd number of entrants is available, said player must be benched that week

Assassin Status:

• Assassin Status can only be gained upon a fourth win and a sixth win, and is effective the following week
• A player with Assassin Status may challenge any player within the tier they selected
• In an Assassin Status matchup, the loser is automatically eliminated from the tournament
• This status is optional and does not have to be taken advantage of by the potential assassin

Bounty Transfer and Player Lives:

• The winning player takes 50% of their opponent’s bounty
• Bounty will not be split into denominations lower than 500, rounded up
• The minimum bounty transaction is 1,000
• Players start with three (3) lives
• A life is lost for every game a player loses
• Players that lose their third life are eliminated for the remainder of the tournament
• When a player eliminates another player, they receive 100% of their remaining bounty

Trades and Administration:

• Trades will not be supported under any circumstances
• Captains may replace those designated as "team cancer" prior to the posting of Week 1 with any player remaining from the draft pool
• These replaced players will be set at the same initial bounty as the removed "team cancer"


This list is not completely exhaustive of every edge case scenario possible - we're trying to keep it readable. Contact the hosts with any further questions.
 
https://pokepast.es/d0bf05a2b4295dbd - Week 1 vs Zesty
https://pokepast.es/ea9ea31bdce54baa - Week 2 vs The Dovahneer
https://pokepast.es/fa27c6bf430cd5f2 - Week 3 vs LuckyPiper
https://pokepast.es/d63d2768daceccd4 - Week 4 vs staxi
https://pokepast.es/a4ebd22e20b8f5b0 - Week 5 vs PurpleGatorade
https://pokepast.es/f20e402001db51c3 - Week 6 vs March Fires (I did not build this one)
https://pokepast.es/35c50a7fa19dd760 - Week 7 vs Ballfire

A few fun ideas in there, cm refresh groundceus + mgar + tox spam and curse rest z flynium ho-oh being my two favourites. I also think that my week 5 dual primals team is quite solid.

This tour was very fun, thanks to the hosts for setting it up and thanks to the sirfetchds for being a great team, we will get em next year.
 
SS
https://pokepast.es/213d5c52b623082d Week 1 vs Crucify - I didn't make this someone just gave it to me last second
https://pokepast.es/96a90cb3d3073813 Week 2 vs Orch - Pretty basic team wanted to use vish because I know Orch likes fatter slower teams brought toge because toge is Op
https://pokepast.es/d6bac4da08d227da Week 3 vs Reje - Made this last second thought it looked sweet got 6-0'd by lax. Ice-master did end up winning with the team later in a different week so s/o to him for that glad someone could do the team some justice.

USM
https://pokepast.es/2f9803a9534e49e6 Week 4 vs Cookies - Made the team last second forgot to put defog on the team but still think the teams okay


Overall this tournament was pretty fun! Even though I was forced to be a sub 2 weeks in a row ._. during the 2 most dire/important weeks ._.
 
https://pokepast.es/9caa68f8942d3e45 L vs Exiline
https://pokepast.es/5a2216b28ddb4b04 W vs PG
https://pokepast.es/4032264b2903084e L vs Tape
https://pokepast.es/b61818f0176f4eac W vs Benbe
https://pokepast.es/945071954e52805a W vs Terracotta
https://pokepast.es/3316d59985de8c60 L vs Exiline

I had a blast building most of these teams and using them. this tournament was pretty good, Home SS ubers is looking pretty bad unless they ban dynamax (PLEASE BAN IT Nayrz). shout outs to the guys on the team once again for being great and see you guys in upl.
 
Note: I may post ORAS ideas later, this post covers SS.

Week 1: https://pokepast.es/f21c344aef6ea37a
When going into a new tier and playing your first week I've learned from experience that you should never get too confident in your capacity to grasp the meta. E.g. my SPL game years ago vs Jibaku where I used full stall in ORAS 3-4 weeks into the tier. I already knew specs Goth was severely underrated at the time. Its best partner is Excadrill, which I always used scarf sand force on if I'm using TTar with it. The inconsistent nature of sand rush is garbage. Other than that, this team was sorta thematic for the rest of mine and Reje's teams, heavily focused on momentum building.

Week 2: https://pokepast.es/5dd0ffcd8cb1e35c
This is my favorite team despite losing with it. Chandy was an underrated dude, but how I wish I just ran max speed on it... Darmanitan is broken on paper as well. You can note that this was about the time me and Reje starting investing a lot in speed on Corviknight. We predicted specs Goth to catch on, which it did. 80 speed doesn't really guarantee you anything though, but it's a nice risk management thing. You get a chance to catch someone who runs far too little speed on their Gothitelle in exchange for a couple % bulk. That is more worth it than fooling around with bad items or spreads like shed shell or sdef. I was still sold on LO 3 atk Eternatus at this point, but it was after this week I realized Eternatus pretty much had to run shed shell (Dugtrio caught on as well around this time).

Week 3: https://pokepast.es/8430d99932c208f0
This team had the most intricate strategy thus far of my teams, which isn't really saying a lot because I don't like to use teams that need to be played in a certain way to win etc. But Rotom-H has the opportunity to lure in and paralyze Eternatus, which opens up Dracovish. Double scarfs is necessary with Rotom-H as you will want to trick freely without losing your revenge killer. At this point, I was all over cosmic shed Eternatus as well, which Reje demonstrated effective use of in a prior week. 3/3 TTar so far, but what can you do if you want to win eh.

Week 4: https://pokepast.es/e8d26a55cc07df36
Noras team was very nice but it was at this point I was sick of cosmic Eter due to its inability to OHKO Dracovish. So I started using a speedy dmax cannon (faster than any modest Eternatus) variant myself. It's an incredible utility set that I stuck with for the rest of my time in the tier. It was extremely solid to run Corvi+Sab at this point because I felt QA SD Zac-C had peaked. Although I will leave you with a better tech to actually beat it with Corvi+Dug later anyway...

Week 5: https://pokepast.es/6087e5373ff31310
At this point we discovered Dugtrio had the ability to be EVd to live +3 QA from Zacian-C without sacrificing too much bulk and speed. This was a major boon to role compression and the set was stuck on every team going forward. This team first had scarf Excadrill instead of Dugtrio, but the trapping is worth too much (not to mention Excadrill without Gothitelle is quite useless). Specs Aegi was a great alternative to a breaker without resorting to trapping (which is more liable to metagame adaption since Gothitelle is an overall worse mon IF you can escape it). You can note that as ghosts can't get trapped, 2 of my teams ran ghost types as a primary means to break. As such, Gothitelle is quite overrated for consistent performance.

Week 7: https://pokepast.es/f9acec6b4d868a78
Laugh as much as you want at this team but this is an attempt at HO in the tier. I choked in builder with Gyara EVs which cost me the clean sweep. The idea is that Jolteon can revenge kill your own sweepers which ditto proofs you to an extent. Grimmsnarl also helps in this regard. Of course this team is inherently more risky than the rest of what I used, but that's moreso due to the nature of HO than the composition itself. You may also note no DD on Gyara because shit sucks. DD is nonsense as you have to stay small to use it, which halves your bulk. The set and team concept was stolen from a ladder player I forgot the name of. He was a bit more real than me and used Vileplume and Ninetales instead of Mew and Grimmsnarl (he used SR sash Dug too). Shoutouts to that dude who definitely beat me and Reje like at least 2-3 times each.

I had a blast playing this tournament in general but I will apologize for my behavior which I will tone down in UPL (hopefully). Grats to Hitmen for winning, and thanks assassins for being one of the best teams I've been on.
 
Last edited:

Manaphy

Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am family guy
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Hyper Offense Team I used vs. Watchog: https://pokepast.es/f955877b6b9e4f55
Slightly different variant with double dance Zacian: https://pokepast.es/8d725ebc878d0b00)
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ubers-472579

The concept of this team was pretty simple, it was to abuse the best sweepers in the tier with immediate hazard support from Mew. Previous to making this team terra told me about how the best Zacian-C sets were double dance or quick attack, and so I immediately made this team to try to take advantage of how brutally common the Corviknight + Dugtrio cores were in the meta at the time. As the replay shows, it clearly paid off for the match I used it in. Eternatus and Hatterene were chosen as Eternatus was the best sweeper in the tier besides Zacian, and Hatterene was the best dynamax abuser in the tier, especially with G-Max Smite combined with hazards. Rotom-Wash was the glue that held the team together, while it may look odd on a hyper offensive team, the little bit of defense that Rotom-W adds is critical to prevent opposing Zacian-C and Excadrill from 6-0ing the team; additionally, he maintains momentum quite well with Volt Switch, provides set-up opportunities with status and can come in clutch with Rocky Helmet damage. Although it didn't show in the replay above, Mew is also quite good, as nothing much really prevents him from setting up at least one hazard, and you can run Mental Herb to shut down Grimmsnarl. Type resistance berries were chosen on Eternatus and Hatterene as they really didn't need the extra power most of the time; the Psychic resist berry doubled in usefulness for Eternatus as it helped vs. Specs Goth as well as Hatterene, meaning you could run Recover over the poison move without having to worry too much. Overall this general team core was really quite good in the meta, and the last version of it that I made featured a bulkier, double dance Zacian-C that didn't have to rely on Quick Attack mindgames to beat Dugtrio. I think the basic concept of this team still works well in the new meta, just replace some of the offensive mons with the new ubers additions and you're good. I was gonna eventually suggest adding some variant of this team to the sample teams but the meta disappeared just in time.

(not from this tour but whatever lol):
Stall team I used vs. Sharow for Ubers Seasonal: https://pokepast.es/dc704a2dd9ba7e96
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1060797237

This team was made all around the fact that Specs Gothitelle exists and was quite popular. It was built around Snorlax and Mandibuzz, as Snorlax was the best special wall in the tier besides Tyranitar, and one of the few things that could handle Cosmic Power Eternatus and especially Hatterene, and Mandibuzz was chosen as it was the best Dark-types in the tier (since you never know when Cosmic Goth will show up) that could also Defog and especially use Knock Off. I really wanted to abuse the fact that Knock Off meant that a lot of things in the tier that use Shed Shell to stay alive (esp. the best mon in the tier Eternatus) could be made a lot more vulnerable after it was gone. Dugtrio was chosen as it added speed and trapping ability which worked well with Knock Off and together with Corviknight and Corsola meant that Zacian-C was well covered. Sdef Lefties Corv was chosen as literally everyone was running like 120 Speed EVs Gothitelle and trying to run some speed EVs to beat bad players was not worth it imo; the loss of rocky helmet was offset since others on the team can handle Zacian-C as well. Toxic Flamethrower Cosmic Eternatus beats almost everything in the tier, the main enemy being other Eternatus, so that also paired well with the Knock Off + Dugtrio combo, he was also the team's Dracovish switch-in. Corsola was needed as it added a spinblocker, Stealth Rock, and general physical bulk without being Goth bait. Overall this team is pretty cool since even though stall is known as a passive playstyle, with a team like this you can easily play around with your two powerful wincons in CurseLax and CP Eternatus, using Knock Off and Dugtrio to help you achieve that goal.

I have other teams but I don't think they'd be interesting to post so there you go
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Alright time to post some thoughts on how to resolve the weaknesses I outline in the OP and play up the strengths:

No longer declare tiers dead.
Old gens are inherently appealing to players skilled in them because of their greater stability and higher skill gaps. This change means players will no longer intentionally avoid certain tiers in order to strategically eliminate them, therefore increasing activity in older gens, which were the only ones with small enough playerbases where such strategy was viable. This also allows powerful old generation players to dominate their castle regardless of match falloff should they desire to. Their benefit being the safety that outside players have to challenge them on their terms, the downside being that their bounty source may diminish over time if they don't choose to chase after other pools.

Increase the pool sizes.
Team sizes would be increased to 11 or 13 players each, contingent on signups, or potentially with eight teams instead as originally planned. More players means more overall matches and better sustenance for old gens. The benefit of more teams as opposed to more slots is that it makes it easier to form pool matchups thereby making it much less likely for a team to run out of matchups like Sirfetch'ds did in the final week. The bounty system of Most Wanted lends itself to allowing teams to take risks on new talent, meaning that increasing the team sizes by two has many more benefits than downsides, and helps facilitate new player scouting much more than the UPL format where putting an unknown in a slot can easily cancel out a winning performance from your best player.

Enforce no penalty to odd man out benches.
This change makes it easier for teams to slot in old gens where before they may have ended up with no matchup and therefore forced to switch to a tier they didn't want or consume their bench. If a player who wanted to play a gen has no matchup, they are free to have a penalty free bench or move to a different tier they want.

Players can't be force benched two weeks in a row or play the same opponent two weeks in a row.
This helps the lowest bounty players from being forced to play consecutive bottom opponents or from being prevented from gaining any bounty at all for two weeks in a row as happened to Goat Heart in the final week. In practice this means that a player who would've been forced to be benched / play they same opponent will instead get matched against a higher bounty opponent, also helping them to climb in bounty.

Change how assassin status works.
Assassin status is no longer an automatic death match, but the freedom to match any player in the tournament. This cuts down on the number of players eliminated before the tour ends, and ensures that strong early tour performance isn't simply nullified. This also makes the Garay vs. Dom situation in the final week impossible and removes some apprehension to utilize the status. Assassin status is also no longer held by individuals, but by teams. A team attains the status by getting a certain number of wins across the tour or by hitting a certain total bounty. Assassin status can still be carried over from week to week, but a team can only carry over one status at a time, therefore ensuring the situation that happened in the final week where everyone used it at once, thereby nullifying some benefit, doesn't happen again.

Reduce the team win bounty cap from 300,000.
In combination with some stability from the change to assassin status, this allows the tour the pressure teams better in the short term with the threat of a team winning outright by the end of the week. The exact number would be based on the number of teams and number of players per team.

Team bonus (Potential Idea)
If a team wins all of their matches in a given week they earn a bonus in bounty or progression toward assassin status. The purpose of this idea would be to increase hype for a week where a team dominates and place some additional weight on team performance.

Cold Pools (Potential Idea)
Offer an additional bounty reward or progression toward assassin status for games in the tier that saw the least amount of activity in the previous week. The purpose of this is to boost activity in tiers that had the lowest number of games and to incentivize players, especially new ones, to chase rewards in tiers they might not normally play.


I feel that these simple changes to the rules would be successful methods of addressing the weaknesses I outlined in the OP and also play on the strengths the format already has. Looking back at UPL I compared to what UPL is like now, the amount of progression, refinement, and turnout is immense. Then comparing what the first ever Most Wanted was like to UPL I solidifies how much potential this format has.
 

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