Metagame Shared Power

[Darth]

My current thoughts on the meta:

- Sand Spit Speed Control is a fun team, and shows that weather isn't innately broken even with speed control.
- Contrary is dumb. You are rewarded for playing a shitty Pokemon (Shuckle) that knows sticky web, in addition to being rewarded for using a playstyle with no drawbacks (all moves you use or want to use raise your stats and are high power); without unaware this needs 2 mons to cover (Prankster + Haze user) or you'll just get snowballed to death.
- Regenerator+fluffy+Fur coat+Ice Scales is too much. As a stall player, I obviously adore this lineup, but I cannot pretend it's healthy. Fluffy is the evil here, in my eyes, for reasons stated before. I would be beyond sad to see Fur Coat go for something that is solvable with a less impactful ban.
- There really shouldn't be more than 2 or 3 more bans. Not because I pretend the meta is balanced then, but because we need to have (and give) time to see where the meta will stand once the issues that've been there (either under the skin or on the counter) since day 1 are dealt with.

 

[bonk]

Please don't ban Contrary when Prankster+Haze+Regen+Furscales exist in the meta

 

[Darth]

Please don't ban Contrary when Prankster+Haze+Regen+Furscales exist in the meta

There's a reason I said there's 2 issues, and didn't just say "ban contrary"

 

[bonk]

There's a reason I said there's 2 issues, and didn't just say "ban contrary"

More than just you are saying Contrary is dumb in this thread.

 

[The Immortal]

I don't see a compelling reason to ban Fluffy over Fur Coat, or vice versa. Individually, they are fine. With that in mind, and with the continued intention of keeping as many elements usable as possible, I will be complex banning the combination of Fluffy + Fur Coat.

I have not seen evidence to believe Contrary deserves to go as of now. Yes, it is difficult to prepare for and I've been on the losing end of Contrary spam. However, I think that we should start looking at Pokemon threats instead of removing more abilities from the metagame. Durant and Crawdaunt are two that come to mind. One provides Hustle (usually in combination with No Guard Doublade) and is a dangerous threat in its own right, and the other provides Adaptability. When you combine these with Contrary, even CoatScales can't stop it.

 

[Wolfein]

I don't see a compelling reason to ban Fluffy over Fur Coat, or vice versa. Individually, they are fine. With that in mind, and with the continued intention of keeping as many elements usable as possible, I will be complex banning the combination of Fluffy + Fur Coat.

I have not seen evidence to believe Contrary deserves to go as of now. Yes, it is difficult to prepare for and I've been on the losing end of Contrary spam. However, I think that we should start looking at Pokemon threats instead of removing more abilities from the metagame. Durant and Crawdaunt are two that come to mind. One provides Hustle (usually in combination with No Guard Doublade) and is a dangerous threat in its own right, and the other provides Adaptability. When you combine these with Contrary spam, even CoatScales can't stop it.

I mean i get how you would think Crawdaunt is a threat since he's the main adaptablity user, but Durant ? There are other strong Hustle users like Dracozolt or even Flapple for that matter. Dracozolt in particular hits like a truck with Bolt Beak and yet Durant would be the threat here. I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion. As for Crawdaunt i understand but i disagree. The combination of poor speed and bad defensive typing make Crawdaunt fairly easy to deal with. You might argue that on a defensive team its speed is more than enough, but so is Basculin's. What makes Crawdaunt more threatening than Basculin other than its popularity ? It would be Knock Off and its Dark STAB overall and setup. But then again, is Crawdaunt more threatening than say Sheer Force Darmanitan for example ? I believe not.

In my opinion the scary part would be Contrary yet i don't think we should take immediate actions as the metagame has had little time to adapt to what i consider to be a fairly balanced ability pool.

 

[G-Luke]

I mean i get how you would think Crawdaunt is a threat since he's the main adaptablity user, but Durant ? There are other strong Hustle users like Dracozolt or even Flapple for that matter. Dracozolt in particular hits like a truck with Bolt Beak and yet Durant would be the threat here. I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion. As for Crawdaunt i understand but i disagree. The combination of poor speed and bad defensive typing make Crawdaunt fairly easy to deal with. You might argue that on a defensive team its speed is more than enough, but so is Basculin's. What makes Crawdaunt more threatening than Basculin other than its popularity ? It would be Knock Off and its Dark STAB overall and setup. But then again, is Crawdaunt more threatening than say Sheer Force Darmanitan for example ? I believe not.

In my opinion the scary part would be Contrary yet i don't think we should take immediate actions as the metagame has had little time to adapt to what i consider to be a fairly balanced ability pool.

Durant has acceess to STAB priority and has a good speed tier, which gives it give advantages over Flapple and Dracozolt

 

[Darth]

I don't see a compelling reason to ban Fluffy over Fur Coat, or vice versa. Individually, they are fine. With that in mind, and with the continued intention of keeping as many elements usable as possible, I will be complex banning the combination of Fluffy + Fur Coat.

I have not seen evidence to believe Contrary deserves to go as of now. Yes, it is difficult to prepare for and I've been on the losing end of Contrary spam. However, I think that we should start looking at Pokemon threats instead of removing more abilities from the metagame. Durant and Crawdaunt are two that come to mind. One provides Hustle (usually in combination with No Guard Doublade) and is a dangerous threat in its own right, and the other provides Adaptability. When you combine these with Contrary, even CoatScales can't stop it.

Love this.

However, I think Hustle Durant is hardly the biggest issue of Hustle.
Dracozolt in particular comes to mind, with its (as we all know by now) amazing move in Bolt Beak.
I feel Dracozolt and Durant actually both portray the exact same issues:

1. They have hustle.
1.1 The combination of hustle and No Guard is obvious.

2. They naturally have an insanely strong way of dealing with their natural checks.
2.1 For Dracozolt this is outspeeding them somehow and dealing the insane damage that bolt beak happens to do.
2.2 For Durant this is naturally being very fast and being able to run a (contrary superpower set,) first impression band set, band iron head, etc.

3. This natural strength is bolstered further by SP's whole point.
3.1 For Dracozolt this is currently best shown in Sand Pit, Sand Rush, No Guard, Hustle, Adaptability, Tough Claws/Guts
3.2 For Durant, this is most evident in aforementioned Contrary sets abusing its access to superpower, but also in teams that lack speed control and use Durant's natural speed. Particularly Dhelmise/Adaptability/Guts/Hustle/No Guard/Contrary makes Durant a threat above most others.

4. Unlike Durant, Dracozolt is hampered by the complete immunity Ground-Types bring to its main STAB-move.

Conclusion: Durant is a bigger threat than Dracozolt due to being more splashable on teams and having a wider role than Dracozolt does, however Dracozolt's provides the same bonus to teams and once you clear Ground-Types, is arguably a more monstrous threat.


As for Crawdaunt and why it's worse than other Adaptability Pokemon, I feel it's quite obvious why it's better than Eevee and Feebas (or Corphish, for that matter.) One could question why you'd ban Crawdaunt over Adaptability, so I shall draw a similar comparison with the only relevant Adaptability user: Basculin(-Red-Striped)

1. They have Adaptability
1.1 Crawdaunt has 2 types, Basculin has just 1.

2. They have 120 and 92 ATK respectively. The benefit of this speaks for itself.

3. STAB-move-wise, which is the whole point of Adaptability, there are huge differences.
3.1 Crawdaunt gets the amazing Crabhammer and Knock off combination, and additionally gets Aqua Jet to cover priority issues.
3.2 Basculin has to make do with Liquidation and Aqua Jet for its STAB-moves.
3.3 Crawdaunt's access to set-up moves is superior to Basculin.
3.3.1 In Gen 8, Basculin can't learn Swords Dance, In Gen 8, Crawdaunt can learn Swords Dance
3.3.2 In Gen 8, Basculin can't learn Dragon Dance, In Gen 8, Crawdaunt can learn Dragon Dance
3.3.3 In Gen 8, Basculin can learn Agility, In Gen 8, Crawdaunt can't learn Agility.

4. Basculin has better speed than Crawdaunt.

Conclusion: Banning Crawdaunt instead of adaptability leaves an inferior Pokemon as a valid option. Basculin cannot break as efficiently (or ... break) as Crawdaunt can, and does not have the amazing Knock Off STAB. Basculin controversially won't be OHKO'ing Pokemon with Aqua Jet. It is less of an issue, and is completely disabled by Water Absorb due to its low ATK on non-stab moves.

 

[Gravelmouse]

https://pokepast.es/a44c707521f3cfe2
I've been using this and I've been getting my ass kicked by stall every single time, any advice on how to make a variant of this that destroys stall? I don't care how much is changed I'm just sick of losing to Persian on team preview

 

[Hematite]

https://pokepast.es/a44c707521f3cfe2
I've been using this and I've been getting my ass kicked by stall every single time, any advice on how to make a variant of this that destroys stall? I don't care how much is changed I'm just sick of losing to Persian on team preview

It might be worth noting that Unaware is currently banned, which I'm pretty sure makes this team unusable. Have you been using this in the past, uh, 22 hours and 27 minutes? I don't think this Clefable set is legal any more.
That said, that's actually a good thing for you! The recent bans should make it significantly easier to break stall.
Fluffy and Fur Coat can no longer be on the same team, so you only have a 2x 3x Marvel Scale modifier to overcome rather than a 4x 6x one on the physical side; your other modifiers, Hustle and Adaptability, are already 2x on the physical side for your STAB moves, so Fur Coat/Fluffy and your own offensive Abilities essentially just cancel each other out and you only have to deal with Marvel Scale's modifier (but you still have all of your other Abilities).
On top of that, since Unaware is gone, you can now use boosting moves like Swords Dance (you don't have any right now) on top of that Fur Coat negation. Some stall teams are prepared for this with Prankster + Haze, but that's generally just on one Pokémon, not a whole team like Unaware.
I'm not sure if this is enough to win consistently in practice, but it looks like you've missed a few bans since the last time you tried, so this might be a good starting point!

Edit: oops, good catch, Seraphus! I did forget about Marvel Scale!
Still, at that point, you're still coming out ahead after a boosting move, so I maintain that the first step should be "don't expect to break stall with a team that relies exclusively on unboosted moves," haha.

 

[Darth]

It might be worth noting that Unaware is currently banned, which I'm pretty sure makes this team unusable. Have you been using this in the past, uh, 22 hours and 27 minutes? I don't think this Clefable set is legal any more.
That said, that's actually a good thing for you! The recent bans should make it significantly easier to break stall.
Fluffy and Fur Coat can no longer be on the same team, so you only have a 2x modifier to overcome rather than a 4x one on the physical side; your other modifiers, Hustle and Adaptability, are already 2x on the physical side for your STAB moves, so Fur Coat/Fluffy and your own offensive Abilities essentially just cancel each other out (but you still have your other ones).
On top of that, since Unaware is gone, you can now use boosting moves like Swords Dance (you don't have any right now) on top of that Fur Coat negation. Some stall teams are prepared for this with Prankster + Haze, but that's generally just on one Pokémon, not a whole team like Unaware.
I'm not sure if this is enough to win consistently in practice, but it looks like you've missed a few bans since the last time you tried, so this might be a good starting point!

Well that's not true.
Fur Coat + Marvel Scale is still (math x*2*1.5). Should be noted that you have to still prep for that.

 

[Yozora]

I have a question regarding the concerning the consistency of some abilities.
If Trace (once technical difficulties are solved out) only copies the natural ability of the active pokemon, shouldn't Mold Breaker and Neutralizing Gas also negate only one ability at a time ? This would make these two much less ban-worthy and actually quite funny to use.

(or similarly, if we go the other way around - that is if Trace should copy everything - Trace should probably stay banned. I think it would make less sense flavor-wise, aside from being less funny)

 

[Cuddly]

I have a question regarding the concerning the consistency of some abilities.
If Trace (once technical difficulties are solved out) only copies the natural ability of the active pokemon, shouldn't Mold Breaker and Neutralizing Gas also negate only one ability at a time ? This would make these two much less ban-worthy and actually quite funny to use.

(or similarly, if we go the other way around - that is if Trace should copy everything - Trace should probably stay banned. I think it would make less sense flavor-wise, aside from being less funny)

Neutralizing Gas disables all abilities currently on the field and Mold Breaker IGNORES all abilities that would alter this Pokemon's moves.
This is important as in Doubles, if a Pokemon has Storm Drain and your Mold Breaker Pokemon uses Hydro Pump, the Hydro Pump will not be redirected to the Storm Drain Pokemon and will hit what ever target, while your non-Mold Breaker user using the same move would have their move redirected.
Trace on the other hand just copies 1 ability in doubles and in singles (by default for obvious reasons).
Also trying to program Mold Break/Neutralizing Gas (probably due to the reason stated above) is a lot harder to reprogram for just the current user as they ignore/disable those abilities, while Trace only has to Trace 1 ability (although it would be interesting if Trace could copy any active ability at random, though that would be an unnecessary nerf)

 

[Ztest]

Hello, it has now become my belief that Regenerator broken. I've not played without the combination of fluffy+fur coat coded in yet so this may change. We are again seeing seeing endless battles between stall teams and bulky offense teams, who have no way of touching each other. This stems from the fact that all you need is ice scales+fur coat+regen and any form of passive damage is completely invalidated. Normally to counter a stall team with a stall team, one would run hazards or corrosion or pressure, anything to make the other person use moves, ie. defog, heal bell, wish. With regen, this is no longer a possibility, meaning that if you face a stall team/bulky offense with stall, you will tie. There is not even a need for a wish user to keep things like persian or coal healthy, they can simply switch. There is no creative work around, and I have had multiple infinite battles already as I am sure many have. This is unhealthy, as it creates a meta where you cannot utilize any form of balance, lest you lose to contrary HO or tie with stall.

Here are some replays:
This is stall vs (really good) balance:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1093433153-3ht59zhg30sjt9gc12k2lia2bzcbslqpw
Stall vs stall:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1093741923-c2ig2oy5y6wqibek8zrm1wfezpbviwqpw

As you can see, my stall team is designed to counter other stall with pressure+corrosion, yet I am unable to touch the other team and they are unable to touch me. We are again experiencing infinite battle.

On another note, I will echo the sentiment that Contrary is broken, for reasons obvious and explained by others above.
Given both of these issues, I believe the best thing to do for balance sake in the meta is to ban Regen and Contrary, or to unban Unaware in place of Regen. The second option is the one I strongly favor more as it would leave more abilities still usable, and allows for a more varied amount of play; HO can still use contrary and stall still can beat stall. Keep in mind as well that fluffy+fur is now banned, meaning that contrary is surely to see a surge in mindless teams that press moves to win without unaware to check and the benefits of fur+fluff to prevent superpower spam.

 

[L lawliet]

plz can someone ban fur coat

 

[fratelli bc]

The metagame is heavily physically-oriented.
All i see is guts, hustle, adaptability and no guard.
Some occasional Stall teams also.

It feels like fur coat is necessary.

 

[TexanSansei]

The metagame is heavily physically-oriented.
All i see is guts, hustle, adaptability and no guard.
Some occasional Stall teams also.

It feels like fur coat is necessary.

It's quite a beautiful environment you gotta admit.
See to a lot people furscales is not as appealing as full on darm sweeping(when it works)
Attack oriented teams are just better for two types of people
People who aren't patient and people who don't like switching a lot(In this meta)

Another thing(off topic)- wouldn't something like a scarf or band dragon type with dragon tail destroy contrary teams?

 

[Wolfein]

It's quite a beautiful environment you gotta admit.
See to a lot people furscales is not as appealing as full on darm sweeping(when it works)
Attack oriented teams are just better for two types of people
People who aren't patient and people who don't like switching a lot(In this meta)

Another thing(off topic)- wouldn't something like a scarf or band dragon type with dragon tail destroy contrary teams?

It would if dragon tail didn't have a negative priority. Though on FurScales stall, phazing/haze should be pretty easy to include, with Haze Toxapex, Milotic , Quagsire and Mantine, Roar Lapras, Bewear, Vaporeon, Beartic Avalugg, Steelix or even A-Persian for that matter, Whirlwind Lax and Mandibuzz and Dtail Milotic, Kommo-O and Goodra.
You just gotta let people adapt to Contrary, but obviously, feel free to show me if i'm wrong, i don't play stall.

 

[bonk]

So I was able to break 1500 with a contrary + unburden + psychic seed team:

Proof of 1500 Peak

The Team Paste

Indeedee (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Final Gambit

Hawlucha @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Acrobatics
- Brave Bird
- Brick Break

Dragapult @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower

Darmanitan @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower

Crawdaunt @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Knock Off
- Crunch
- Superpower

And I saw Z was running a more efficient version of contrary unburden psychic seed on ladder.

I now think Contrary should be banned from experience.

I also think Regenerator should be banned for the similar reasons outline by others above. Some well played and balance Pressure+Regen+Furscales teams I was unable to break through, but even when I could, I can see that Regen is still leading to endless battles.

Dropping the Contrary team here so that it can run around on the ladder more and either be fully countered or adapted further to the point it clearly needs to be banned.

If you're wondering how to play it, it's pretty mindless, lead Shuckle then after your satisfied spamming toxic knock off and stealth rocks final gambit to Indeedee, then eventually switch in Hawlucha and the team is ready to go from there.

Feel free to play with the sets, Indeedee's item and switching out last two boosting abilities (Sheer Force & Adaptability) for faster mons. I'm sure there's something more broken out there. I don't personally recommend Rotom-H because levitate will lose your protection to priority and prevent you from abusing Webs on your side (if the opponent misplays and gets up Webs), maybe Infiltrator Chandelure instead for an Overheat abuser, which frees up Curse Body from Dragapult. If you really want the Electric STAB then maybe Zeraora who has access to Superpower.

Happy Grinding!

 

[TexanSansei]

So I was able to break 1500 with a contrary + unburden + psychic seed team:

Proof of 1500 Peak

View attachment 235456

The Team Paste

Indeedee (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Final Gambit

Hawlucha @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Acrobatics
- Brave Bird
- Brick Break

Dragapult @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower

Darmanitan @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower

Crawdaunt @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Knock Off
- Crunch
- Superpower

And I saw Z was running a more efficient version of contrary unburden psychic seed on ladder.

I now think Contrary should be banned from experience.

I also think Regenerator should be banned for the similar reasons outline by others above. Some well played and balance Pressure+Regen+Furscales teams I was unable to break through, but even when I could, I can see that Regen is still leading to endless battles.

Dropping the Contrary team here so that it can run around on the ladder more and either be fully countered or adapted further to the point it clearly needs to be banned.

If you're wondering how to play it, it's pretty mindless, lead Shuckle then after your satisfied spamming toxic knock off and stealth rocks final gambit to Indeedee, then eventually switch in Hawlucha and the team is ready to go from there.

Feel free to play with the sets, Indeedee's item and switching out last two boosting abilities (Sheer Force & Adaptability) for faster mons. I'm sure there's something more broken out there. I don't personally recommend Rotom-H because levitate will lose your protection to priority and prevent you from abusing Webs on your side (if the opponent misplays and gets up Webs), maybe Infiltrator Chandelure instead for an Overheat abuser, which frees up Curse Body from Dragapult. If you really want the Electric STAB then maybe Zeraora who has access to Superpower.

Happy Grinding!

After using this team for quite a bit I noticed some things
It's pretty good. After the hawlucha sweeps half the team they forfeit.
In limited situations including one where I faced someone with the same exact team I got swept pretty badly
Note: I use the Crawdaunt after Shuckle just because adaptability powers up physic, superpower hawlucha, and draco meteor Dragapult
Good team my guy.

 

[STEEVEEHOLT]

So I was able to break 1500 with a contrary + unburden + psychic seed team:

Proof of 1500 Peak

View attachment 235456

The Team Paste

Indeedee (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Final Gambit

Hawlucha @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Acrobatics
- Brave Bird
- Brick Break

Dragapult @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower

Darmanitan @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower

Crawdaunt @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Knock Off
- Crunch
- Superpower

And I saw Z was running a more efficient version of contrary unburden psychic seed on ladder.

I now think Contrary should be banned from experience.

I also think Regenerator should be banned for the similar reasons outline by others above. Some well played and balance Pressure+Regen+Furscales teams I was unable to break through, but even when I could, I can see that Regen is still leading to endless battles.

Dropping the Contrary team here so that it can run around on the ladder more and either be fully countered or adapted further to the point it clearly needs to be banned.

If you're wondering how to play it, it's pretty mindless, lead Shuckle then after your satisfied spamming toxic knock off and stealth rocks final gambit to Indeedee, then eventually switch in Hawlucha and the team is ready to go from there.

Feel free to play with the sets, Indeedee's item and switching out last two boosting abilities (Sheer Force & Adaptability) for faster mons. I'm sure there's something more broken out there. I don't personally recommend Rotom-H because levitate will lose your protection to priority and prevent you from abusing Webs on your side (if the opponent misplays and gets up Webs), maybe Infiltrator Chandelure instead for an Overheat abuser, which frees up Curse Body from Dragapult. If you really want the Electric STAB then maybe Zeraora who has access to Superpower.

Happy Grinding!

Even with a team like this, I couldn't beat a team with fur coat ice scales regen. How are people breaking through that + stamina with offense?

 

[bonk]

Even with a team like this, I couldn't beat a team with fur coat ice scales regen. How are people breaking through that + stamina with offense?

It's really Regen that makes this tougher than it should be. To get past it you just rely on stacking abilities to your Special Attacking Dragapult, boost w/ Draco to +6 and *usually* you can reverse 6-0.

Not always though, since the damage you're doing beforehand isn't always going to be permanent damage with Regen.

This said, if Regen AND Unaware is banned, Contrary should definitely be banned too, since there's absolutely no way to stop Contrary then.

Or use Z's suggestion of Contrary AND Unaware legal, but Regen banned, since Regen leads to endless games in Stall vs Stall. This still allows for Contrary to be played & counterplayed.

 

[TexanSansei]

It's really Regen that makes this tougher than it should be. To get past it you just rely on stacking abilities to your Special Attacking Dragapult, boost w/ Draco to +6 and *usually* you can reverse 6-0.

Not always though, since the damage you're doing beforehand isn't always going to be permanent damage with Regen.

This said, if Regen AND Unaware is banned, Contrary should definitely be banned too, since there's absolutely no way to stop Contrary then.

Or use Z's suggestion of Contrary AND Unaware legal, but Regen banned, since Regen leads to endless games in Stall vs Stall. This still allows for Contrary to be played & counterplayed.

Yo got into the first 400(With your team) for the first time which sounds pathetic but hooray!

(Gxe pretty low but that's fine)

When you get beaten by two 1 health mons just cause they had sturdy
Edit: Got to first 200 as of now(If a guy that sucks as much as me can get to the top 200 contrary needs to be banned)

 

[iLlama]

Noticed this meta was OMotM and I remembered it being insanely broken last gen so I was a curious what changes were made to it. It's cool to see ability combination restrictions being implemented to really curb the crazy shit that people can make. Figured I'd share one of the builds I've been messing around with and maybe push some discussion for elements that feel overbearing. I've mainly focused on trying to build the most consistent stall team I can (though I've made some wild offenses as well) and after a lot of testing and theorizing I think I've come up with a fairly solid build for now:

Stall Build

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Toxic

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Haze
- Recover

Persian-Alola @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot

Frosmoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- U-turn
- Defog

Weezing-Galar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Defog
- Toxic
- Strange Steam

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Spirit Break
- Taunt

The team itself is straightforward; Knock Off and status, chip with rocks and Iron Barbs, and shut down setup with double Prankster Haze. I've been testing a multitude of mons in Weezing and Grimmsnarl's spots such as Hippo, Rotom, Salazzle, Mandibuzz, and a few others but these two have performed the most consistently. Ferro can probably be replaced with something with a better typing for the team but I enjoy using its vast utility and bulkiness. Thus far this team really has yet to run into any major matchup problems thanks large in part to Regenerator. In fact, probably 90% of all the battles I've played, not including the ties, consist of me switching mons and taking full advantage of a full team with passive healing with no real repercussions. I think that here is where a notable problem lies. Based off all the crazy stallbreaking and wallbreaking builds I've run into, the biggest problem for my opponent has been dealing with Regenerator and from what I can tell there isn't a solid way to handle it.

The only team I've run into that's pressured these stall builds at all has been Sand Spit builds, which I'm curious as to why Sand Spit + Sand Rush is unbanned while Sand Stream + Sand Rush is banned but I digress. Regardless of this pressure, the actual comp itself isn't difficult to manage rather its use of Glare spam on Sandaconda can score the team a key paralysis once in a while to break through mons without getting hit by priority Haze. This offensive strategy's glaring weakness is if sand isn't up then the Sand Spit build can't take full advantage of its power through Sand Force and, judging by how often I switch and how passively I've been playing these matchups, it can't fully break through this stall because every situation can be totally reset when you have Regenerator available. If I try to phase a +2 Crawdaunt with Toxapex and I end up getting paralyzed, I can pretty much reset the situation by switching to another mon based on whatever I think the Crawdaunt's moveset is. All the while this Crawdaunt is taking chip damage from Iron Barbs and possibly from other sources as well be it status, Life Orb, Leech, etc. The Craw player is stuck with thinking about whether or not to setup more or continue guessing with attacks and taking chip.

Now with this example you might think that Prankster is a problem here and maybe it is. My thinks is that Prankster's strength here directly relates to the use of Regenerator because you have all these option for priority utility ready to go because they just got back 33% of their HP. I mean really just take a look at my team. The only mon with a healing move is Toxapex and that's just so I can stall out contrary mons.

Just giving two cents on my experience with the meta so far but maybe this will will spur some more focused discussion. From my perspective I don't think this OM is far off from being more diverse and competitive. I'll toss in a few theorycrafts I've been making too. Nothing too solid but fun to use nonetheless.

Crit Sweeper Malamar

Persian-Alola @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Knock Off

Frosmoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Stun Spore
- Defog

Malamar @ Leftovers
Ability: Suction Cups
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Block
- Acupressure
- Rest
- Night Slash

Flapple @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Outrage
- Bullet Seed
- Grav Apple

Unfezant @ Leftovers
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- Taunt

Drapion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

Status Spam Hex Chandy

Tsareena (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Knock Off
- Encore

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Haze
- Recover

Persian-Alola @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot

Frosmoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Stun Spore
- U-turn
- Defog

Chandelure
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Hex
- Psychic
- Will-O-Wisp

 

[DrPumpkinz]

If you'll forgive the theorymonning of someone who just follows this thread and doesn't actually play, might Prankster + Taunt + Setup be an effective stallbreaking strategy? It sounds like one of stall's nastier tricks is using Prankster Haze to stop setup in its tracks, so in theory being able to block the Haze with a priority Taunt might be useful. In practice, it might run into issues due to only leaving room for two attacking moves, and I imagine Prankster isn't that useful on offensive teams beyond this specific purpose, at least when compared to the mileage defensive teams get out of it.

Food for thought. inb4 stall starts running Oblivious and Aroma Veil