Metagame 1v1 Old Gens

[PA]

if you're poisoned you lose anyways cause it negates leech recovery lol

Ty kind sir

 

[DEG]

Hello my friends, what are your thoughts on freeing oras explanations after 2 months?

 

[Inkreativ]

Ok so two things,

1.

Hello my friends, what are your thoughts on freeing oras explanations after 2 months?

Didnt you get it in PM's? Or am I mistaking something?

2.
Due to a password being known by me, i checked how active our esteemed ORAS Council is, and whether some members are rightfully talking smack about the activity of some other members.

So i present to you the Dates of the last contribution of the council members:

187 Fan: (tut mir leid dass ich das so machen musste, aber so eine Faulheit nervt mich auf ner Council)

18th of March

TDA: 12th of March

Robyn: 19/24th of March

Elo Bandit: Votes on the VR-shift

Whalee: Votes on the VR-Shift


So, make up your own opinion about this.

Have a nice day

Inkreativ

 

[DEG]

Maybe it's time to open up a case chief!

 

[Mubs]

Compiling stats from gens before BW is really trash but w/e

Heres the stats of ADV post classic:

ADV

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Metagross          |   23 |  14.20% |  65.22% |
| 2    | Aerodactyl         |   12 |   7.41% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Raikou             |   11 |   6.79% |  54.55% |
| 4    | Marowak            |   10 |   6.17% |  60.00% |
| 5    | Registeel          |    8 |   4.94% |  37.50% |
| 5    | Alakazam           |    8 |   4.94% |  37.50% |
| 5    | Swampert           |    8 |   4.94% |  25.00% |
| 8    | Salamence          |    7 |   4.32% |  42.86% |
| 9    | Blissey            |    6 |   3.70% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Heracross          |    6 |   3.70% |   0.00% |
| 11   | Milotic            |    5 |   3.09% |  80.00% |
| 11   | Gyarados           |    5 |   3.09% |  80.00% |
| 11   | Dodrio             |    5 |   3.09% |  80.00% |
| 11   | Sceptile           |    5 |   3.09% |   0.00% |
| 15   | Medicham           |    4 |   2.47% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Zapdos             |    4 |   2.47% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Gengar             |    4 |   2.47% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Moltres            |    3 |   1.85% |  33.33% |
| 19   | Victreebel         |    2 |   1.23% | 100.00% |
| 19   | Vaporeon           |    2 |   1.23% | 100.00% |
| 19   | Dugtrio            |    2 |   1.23% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Starmie            |    2 |   1.23% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Tyranitar          |    2 |   1.23% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Miltank            |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Claydol            |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Espeon             |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Regice             |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Cradily            |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Beautifly          |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Kingdra            |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Gardevoir          |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Cloyster           |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Granbull           |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Skarmory           |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Jirachi            |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Armaldo            |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Nincada            |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Flygon             |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Jolteon            |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Steelix            |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Ditto              |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |

Lets get a bit of the obvious noms out of the way as the VR is stupidly outdated


A- -> S
A+ -> S
B- -> A+ / S
C -> B / B+
B -> C / UR
B- -> A / A+
B- -> A / A-
UR -> C / C+
B -> B+
UR -> B-

ADV is cool as a metagame but leftovers should be banned, imo. Struggle mechs are a bit too stupid this gen.

As always, thanks for reading and have a nice day

 

[Ginger Princess]

stableprince569 now has been post ownership of ADV 1v1. neomon will still remain in the ADV council.

 

[STABLE]

ADV Update
4 new sample teams have been added!
Speed tiers have been added!

Pokesartoolcay has been added as a member of Council, this does bring to an even number of 6 members, but that doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment. We're still open to accept new members that know enough about the tier and are willing to contribute.

VR updates are coming soon.

 

[DEG]

It's rly sad that you got a whole oras "active" council that didn't even bother writing explanations for their bad ORAS vr shifts even after a full month. Maybe you're not knowledgeable enough to write about it lmao. Anyways, i'll ignore that and spark some discussion myself and see if you'll care.

Kyurem-Black: Really has no business rising to the top of the chart, it's predictable af and its other sets are mediocre at best which too much opportunity loss to be found, it's only good against bad people. Every team has a kyub counter without even trying and that without bending EVs and movesets. Mega metagross, Mega Mawile, Heatran, Latios, mega gyarados, rhyperior, pz can all deal with it, adding to that genesect if it doesn't run a shitty hp fire set. Kyurem-Black should definitely drop to S- if not to A+ rank.

Mega Slowbro: Back to A it should go. It's great and everything but it has iffy matchup against a lot of S rank Pokemon, notably Zards, and Gyarados. Plus the there's lot of genesects, greninjas, gardevoirs that limits it. Opinion matters here so I'm not sure but ig I'd drop it to A.

Victini: Ye, no. There's no way Victini can make it to the A ranks without anyone batting an eye. It's borderline, it's really bad. It seems like its good since it can run bulky wow, specs, band but in reality it's only good on paper. Zard x, kyub, gyarados, altaria, most rocks and waters can defeat it even if it runs eball / focus blast. Most are bulky enough to withstand a hit just hit it back effectively, or boost+endure+Custap, metagame shifts isn't helping its way to the top. B+ is okay, but its no way on the levels of manaphy, dnite and gard. Let's not forget that it's not rly splashable on any team.

Heatran: Let's move this thing up to A+ or S-, it's definitely the best Fire-type after zards and it also beats zards except the brickbreak lures shit. Heatran has so much positive matchups in todays metagame, can effectively pick its checks with Air Balloon / Specs with little to no opportunity cost. V strong against meta picks like mawile, metagross, zards, genesects, altaria, whimsicott, garchomp and other stuff.

Gyarados-Mega: I can't believe you moved kyub to S and downgraded Gyarados to S-. It's easily top 3 Pokemon which lot of free EVs and bulk, plus it literally has 2 amazing abilities in Intimidate>Mold Breaker which lets it easily deal with famous rock sturdy users and physical attackers. Just put EVs sprinkle em with DD, taunt, some moves and you got urself a monster that punishes unprepared users. You need to have dedicated counters for it and predict against the taunt.

Terrakion: B Lose to fairy and co but very effective against the most used zards/heatran+kyub+pz stuff. Can also beat whimsicott.

I got bored but there's lot of questionable stuff down there, why is serperior B-, why did talonflame rise? Keldeo? why did jumpluff got to B not B+ and mega ampharos still B+

++
toyed w/ it for a little bit it can run a sturdy offensive set and another counter set since counter/sturdy isn't compatible. rock-types are strong in 1v1 due to the omnipresence of charizards and heatran. regirock can beat all/most fire-types, its incredibly bulky that it can withstand many attacks that let it defeat mega-metagross, pz, mega lopunny, terrakion if EV'd correctly w/ counter, kyub/haxorus/garchomp too with some mind games. though, its pretty weak to some meta picks notably water-types (gren+Dos+bro), sab, mawile and is extremely prediction reliant and if they have sub you mostly lose unless edge quake can hit effectively. i'd move it to B- or B. i don't want to share the set publicly but i can give it to 187fan.

eh p lackluster and mostly prediction reliant, its good as it can beat some stuff and can run 2 different sets but it just do a limited job and is definitely not as threatening as sawk, ttar, aggron etc.. so ye just drop it to B

its p cool and can defeat many unprepared teams, amazing coverage that lets it take on non-flame charge zard, fairies, rock types and steels specially threats like maw, meta, gard-mega, sylveon, whims, sab, heatran which is p dope for a C+ pokemon, imo i'd bump it up to B, B- is also understandable.

criminally underrated, not only it can cheese some matchup with hypnosis but its enormous speed stat let it use sub+disable against choiced pokemon, it also has will-o-wisp+hex which can easily defeat some physical attackers and even some stally-ones. it's p fragile and lose to a lot of things since Ghost/Poison is a blessing and a curse, great offensively, not so great defensively. B- seems better than C+

with other mons bumping some stuff to B- and with current B- mons i don't think it should be stuck down there. its one of the most reliable zard check, can also check both kyub and gyarados too which is cool+victini+altaria+pz. p weak to strong waters and steels so its kinda not amazing but still good nonetheless. B seems more fitting.

pretty lackluster, typing is eh and you'd be better off running a stronger water or fire-type anyway. lose to all/most dragons, some waters, mega bro, ttar. it can beat steels, heatran, but meh there's better choices that beat more. Drop to B-

After PL, i agree victini should stay in A- so you can ignore my nom in the previous post.

Amazing wallbreaker can defeat most/all stall sets since its typing is effective against the best stallers in 1v1, fire is generally a good type with the abundance of fairies and steels, plus QD makes it fend off lot of pixilated hyperbeams, can run great bulk and some berries shenanigans to resist water/rock attacks and get a QD off. Bug buzz+OH is all that it needs with QD, last move can be substitute or roost. prob outclassed by other fire-types but it has its niche and def not C. C+ or B- is good.

that's all for today!

 

[Kaif]

SolarflareRo is leaving the BW council, thanks for everything

 

[Ginger Princess]

Nomming Nidoking for D/C-/C in USUM

Nidoking (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 240 Atk / 36 Def / 48 SpA / 184 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Poison Jab
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam

This lure is actually really useful in SM; it has Poison Jab to hit relevant fairies like mega gard, lele, tapunium fini, with scarf to outspeed and ohko greninja, Ambipom, and naganadel, ice beam coverage to bop Garchomp Lando-T (also jumpluff too ig but eh). EQ beats Zeraora and Magearna. Nidoking tears apart Serperior teams, who usually runs mons like Magearna, fini, garchomp, lando-t alongside it. It also has the potential to lure in and beat Pokemon like Clefable and Registeel, who may increase their SpDef, expecting a special attacker, as that is the role Nidoking serves in 6v6 (nidoking almost always beats Clefable anyway). Great anti anti-meta threat, I think with combination of matchups that are uniquely his, most specifically its ability to body Serperior w/o sacrificing any of the aforementioned mus, which is something mons like Megagross (which the mons I listed all mostly lose to) struggle w/ beating all at once with the 4mss. Its going to have trouble with the tip top threats (most notably the Chars, dnite, mgyara, scarf PZ, Meloetta and Mew) but that can be solved with good team support.

Calcs

240+ Atk Nidoking Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Magearna: 242-288 (66.6 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ Atk Nidoking Earthquake vs. +2 248 HP / 0+ Def Magearna: 122-146 (33.6 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
240+ Atk Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 96 HP / 188 Def Tapu Lele: 318-374 (104.2 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ Atk Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Gardevoir-Mega: 434-512 (128.7 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ Atk Nidoking Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 334-394 (117.1 - 138.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ Atk Nidoking Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ambipom: 340-400 (116.8 - 137.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ Atk Nidoking Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Naganadel: 390-462 (135.8 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
48 SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 360-424 (100.5 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
48 SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 376-444 (112.9 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ Atk Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 24 Def Serperior: 320-378 (90.6 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery (2hkos even after seed recovery obv)
48 SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Jumpluff: 324-384 (109.4 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ Atk Nidoking Earthquake vs. 48 HP / 120 Def Zeraora: 330-390 (100.3 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Zeraora Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Nidoking: 47-56 (15.5 - 18.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Outrage vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Nidoking: 209-247 (68.9 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (beats bulk up electrium)

240+ Atk Nidoking Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 324-382 (104.1 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (This is neat too but its unlikely you'll find 0 bulk normalium PZ in tour much, and you lose to scarf).

240+ Atk Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Clefable: 278-330 (70.5 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ Atk Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. +1 252 HP / 236+ Def Clefable through Reflect: 93-111 (23.6 - 28.1%) -- 89.4% chance to 4HKO
240+ Atk Nidoking Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Registeel: 188-224 (51.7 - 61.7%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1103255053 Also this tour game replay to prove what i mean.

 

[Inkreativ]

Ok, Ink here.
Im gonna talk a bit about the usage stats of the PL and explain a bit, why i think the stats are like they are.

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Snorlax            |   19 |   7.14% |  63.16% |
| 2    | Dragonite          |   16 |   6.02% |  43.75% |
| -    | Rotom-Appliance    |   13 |   4.89% |  38.46% |
| 3    | Cresselia          |   10 |   3.76% |  70.00% |
| 3    | Kingdra            |   10 |   3.76% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Jirachi            |    9 |   3.38% |  55.56% |
| 5    | Hariyama           |    9 |   3.38% |  33.33% |
| 7    | Aerodactyl         |    8 |   3.01% |  62.50% |
| 7    | Swampert           |    8 |   3.01% |  25.00% |
| 9    | Togekiss           |    7 |   2.63% |  85.71% |
| 9    | Rhyperior          |    7 |   2.63% |  57.14% |
| 9    | Zapdos             |    7 |   2.63% |  57.14% |
| 9    | Raikou             |    7 |   2.63% |  42.86% |
| 13   | Shaymin            |    6 |   2.26% | 100.00% |
| 13   | Suicune            |    6 |   2.26% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Celebi             |    6 |   2.26% |  16.67% |
| 16   | Umbreon            |    5 |   1.88% |  80.00% |
| 16   | Azelf              |    5 |   1.88% |  80.00% |
| 18   | Entei              |    4 |   1.50% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Tyranitar          |    4 |   1.50% |  75.00% |
| 18   | Dusknoir           |    4 |   1.50% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Machamp            |    4 |   1.50% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Rotom-Heat         |    4 |   1.50% |  25.00% |
| 18   | Gengar             |    4 |   1.50% |  25.00% |
| 18   | Ambipom            |    4 |   1.50% |  25.00% |
| 25   | Armaldo            |    3 |   1.13% | 100.00% |
| 25   | Flygon             |    3 |   1.13% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Jolteon            |    3 |   1.13% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Metagross          |    3 |   1.13% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Rotom-Wash         |    3 |   1.13% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Bronzong           |    3 |   1.13% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Infernape          |    3 |   1.13% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Scizor             |    3 |   1.13% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Heracross          |    3 |   1.13% |   0.00% |
| 25   | Tangrowth          |    3 |   1.13% |   0.00% |
| 25   | Weavile            |    3 |   1.13% |   0.00% |
| 25   | Gallade            |    3 |   1.13% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Hippowdon          |    2 |   0.75% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Gyarados           |    2 |   0.75% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Empoleon           |    2 |   0.75% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Moltres            |    2 |   0.75% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Rotom-Fan          |    2 |   0.75% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Registeel          |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Electivire         |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Cradily            |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Slaking            |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Steelix            |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Rotom-Mow          |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Torterra           |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Regirock           |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Heatran            |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Magnezone          |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Rotom-Frost        |    2 |   0.75% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Gastrodon          |    2 |   0.75% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Absol              |    2 |   0.75% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Sceptile           |    2 |   0.75% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Mamoswine          |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Camerupt           |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Leafeon            |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Azumarill          |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Slowbro            |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Staraptor          |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Roserade           |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Articuno           |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Marowak            |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Feraligatr         |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Gardevoir          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Clefable           |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Honchkrow          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Toxicroak          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Lopunny            |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Magmortar          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Mismagius          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Ludicolo           |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Abomasnow          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |

So, we see Snorlax peaking the stats in front of Dragonite. Snorlax is a very good alround Pokemon with the ability to beat nearly all the pp stall Pokemon with its band set and having various other options, of which only a few unsets arent that good.


Dragonite's usage rose with the Yache-DD set becoming more popular and thats deserved. Dragonite is a very good Pokemon, even though its missing Multiscale, Band, Scarf and Yache are still all good options and its a deserved 2nd place.


The special thing about the Rotom-Forms is one of the lowest win rates, 38%. That can be explained with the few sets the different sets can run and that they can't really catch you off guard. Le Creme Brule played a nice stall set, which is definitely a step into the right direction for Rotom.


The only S mon, Zapdos, is only tied 9th in usage with a decent win rate of 57%. The metagame got faster, and Zapdos PP-Stall set is outclassed by Aerodactyl. Also Zapdos' Specs and LO set isnt so relevant anymore. It has to fall in the VR.


Hariyama is also often used. I cant say much about that since i never used it, but Spitfire, who used it a lot, will have his reasons.


Shaymin, Entei and Armaldo all have in common, that they have a 100% winrate with atleast 3 uses. These 3 are all mons that you need to watch out for and they can all run various sets, except for maybe Entei.


Thats it for now. Thanks for reading and have a nice day!
Inkreativ

 

[STABLE]

NEWS
DezShizzels has been added as the newest member of the ADV Council, congrats!!

we're also currently discussing the whole Struggle thing, so something will likely be done in regards to that in the future.
Peace

 

[STABLE]

Re: Ties in ADV 1v1 roomtours

After recent events with some ADV battles going to turn 1000 in roomtours because of how Struggle works in Generation 3, the issue has been brought to the Council. After discussing it, we have come to the conclusion that the best course of action would be to set some sort of "Tie rule"

When two players find themselves in a match that would end up going to turn 1000 (happens if both players run out of PP and both Struggles do 6% damage or less), the game is to be coinflipped with the use of the command !pick

In case one of the two players doesn't agree to the !pick rule, a roomauth is supposed to step in and /forcewin the player chosen by the !pick

This rule will only be enforced in roomtours and Live Tournaments (if there will be hosted any in the future), since tying is part of the game and can be achieved with /forcetie, but it only constitutes an issue in roomtours.

 

[IBM]

Re: Ties in ADV 1v1 roomtours

After recent events with some ADV battles going to turn 1000 in roomtours because of how Struggle works in Generation 3, the issue has been brought to the Council. After discussing it, we have come to the conclusion that the best course of action would be to set some sort of "Tie rule"

When two players find themselves in a match that would end up going to turn 1000 (happens if both players run out of PP and both Struggles do 6% damage or less), the game is to be coinflipped with the use of the command !pick

In case one of the two players doesn't agree to the !pick rule, a roomauth is supposed to step in and /forcewin the player chosen by the !pick

This rule will only be enforced in roomtours and Live Tournaments (if there will be hosted any in the future), since tying is part of the game and can be achieved with /forcetie, but it only constitutes an issue in roomtours.

That’s... already what happens. Congrats the 30 ADV council members successfully made the decision to do literally nothing. The only reason a game went to 1000 turns in a room tour was because there were no room staff online. Every other time the game is decided by !pick. This is just such a confusing decision to me because the council members made a big deal talking this solution up but it turned out to be nothing. I have an actual solution that doesn’t rely on a blind !pick. In a battle where it’s obviously going to last forever (Regi vs Regi) (Blissey vs Blissey) It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out which matches are going to last forever. Have the person that struggles first lose. This way there is still some skill involved in that you have to retain as much pp as you can, and only when both Pokémon have the same moves and the same speed is the match decided by a coinflip (speed tie at the struggle turn). Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

 

[The Official Glyx]

I haven't been like, super dedicated to oras for a long time, though I figured I'd go ahead and drop a nom for ORAS here-

Victini -> A/A+

While most of its sets need to be a smidge unconventional, they more or less all work really well, and it can be built to beat near anything it wants.
The set that got me to think of this nom was the WP set I saw I think Whaleeeee using in PL.

Victini @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 152 Def / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Bolt Strike
- V-create

Dunno if these are the same EVs Whaleeeee used, but Speed outpaces Adamant Gyarados, Atk is to 2HKO Heatran as reliably as possible, Def is to live Scarf Dnite as reliably as possible after Wisp.

This set covers a good chunk of the top mons between the likes of Gyarados, (some) Kyub, Heatran, Altaria, Sableye, Azumarill, Dragonite, etc, that most other sets would normally struggle with, while still retaining a good chunk of the wins it normally gets with sets like Band/Specs/Scarf/Life Orb/etc.

The fact that you can run multiple Victini just makes it that much more obnoxious to deal with.

I dunno if official tours mean much of anything, but I've been pulling this guy a lot in them (the few that I do join) and getting tons of wins out of it.

 

[STABLE]

That’s... already what happens. Congrats the 30 ADV council members successfully made the decision to do literally nothing. The only reason a game went to 1000 turns in a room tour was because there were no room staff online. Every other time the game is decided by !pick. This is just such a confusing decision to me because the council members made a big deal talking this solution up but it turned out to be nothing. I have an actual solution that doesn’t rely on a blind !pick. In a battle where it’s obviously going to last forever (Regi vs Regi) (Blissey vs Blissey) It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out which matches are going to last forever. Have the person that struggles first lose. This way there is still some skill involved in that you have to retain as much pp as you can, and only when both Pokémon have the same moves and the same speed is the match decided by a coinflip (speed tie at the struggle turn). Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

For the record, our decision was indeed to not do anything that could end up having unforeseen consequences and be counterproductive. Leftovers ban has been brought to the table and refused more than once for multiple reasons, and I believe it's most likely not gonna be discussed again.
While this is also what happened before, the rule used to be more of an unofficial convention that you would follow for time-saving reasons, while it is now a written rule that everyone must follow.
In regards to your "First Struggle Loses" rule, that has also been discussed, but our goal was to circumvent an inconvenience without having to modify any of the game's core mechanics. If the game were to end up in a tie, it is only fair for the winner to be decided through use of 50-50 odds, instead of resorting to variables that would otherwise never be considered.
Hope this post was helpful to explain our reasonings, if you ever have any other perplexities feel free to ask.

 

[Here Comes Team Charm!]

If I may ask: why doesn't ORAS have species clause while all other gens do? Meta differences? Less versatility in sets? Council thought it was funny?

 

[Synonimous]

DPP Council Update

We are beginning a Snorlax suspect and have VR shifts coming soon! Sets will continue to be added to their respective mons on the VR as well along with EV reasoning.

 

[Mubs]

If I may ask: why doesn't ORAS have species clause while all other gens do? Meta differences? Less versatility in sets? Council thought it was funny?

Forgot to answer this:

Essentially, ORAS was the first 1v1 gen to go "Mainstream" in a sense, and gen61v1 iirc started with no species clause. When oldgen development started, there was a species clause; but the people who played during that meta still played 1v1 at that time (good amount still do as we speak), and they wanted its removal, so it happened.

 

[Ginger Princess]

Announcement

ORAS Council has been reformed. The new council will consist of DEG, 187 Fan, Lancer Fr, OM, and Whaleeeee. Leadership has been transferred to DEG, as well.

 

[DEG]

Announcement

ORAS Council has been reformed. The new council will consist of DEG, 187 Fan, Lancer Fr, OM, and Whaleeeee. Leadership has been transferred to DEG, as well.

As leader I will now finally set the oras explanations free! Shifts coming soon!

 

[DEG]

Hello, ORAS post-PL changes.

VR Changes

Rises

S- > S

A+ > S-

A > A+

A- > A

A- > A

B+ > A-

B > B+

B- > B+

B- > B

B- > B

B- > B

C+ > B-

C+ > B-

C > C+

C+ > B-

C > C+

UR > C+

UR > C

Drops

A > A-

A- > B+

B+ > B

B+ > B

A- > B

B+ > B

B > B-

B > C+

B > C+

B- > C+

C+ > C

C+ > C

C+ > C

C+ > C

C- > UR

Some explanations;
Doesn't really fit into the S- rank as it on-par with the best of the best, its Spdf is probably the best rn an it can easily muscle through a bunch of specially offensive and offensive threats with a combination of Metal Burst + Sucker Punch + STAB/SD. It's able to beat top tier Pokemon counting PZ, Kyurem-Black, Mega Gyarados occasionally, Genesect, Gardevoir, Greninja, Sab-mega and etc..

Bulky af, splashable af, pretty good against most physical threats thanks to mega+priority wisp turn 1 + foul play / burst. Rly good against bunch of dragons, normal types, and lot of things that can't hit it super effectively. Struggles against prominent Fairy and Fire-type Pokemon that's why it's S- and not S.

Not a surprise, prime zard killer, amazing typing in Fire/Steel which allows it to muscle through fairies too notably mega-maw. Don't really have much ground-types roaming and with air balloon it negates the ground attack from choiced Pokemon. Still struggles against some top picks notably all water-types, and dragonite.

Unexplored pre-tournaments now after WC/Classic/PL it has become one of zard checks, rock/fairy is great offensively, it can also beat mega gyarados and some dragons, also can run multiple sets such as specs, weakness policy, mega stone.

Anything that can reliably kill zards is ranked high but this thing can actually beat most if not all special attackers like pz, heatran, meloetta, genesect which is really amazing in ORAS.

Drops are self explanatory, if anyone has any opposition or need better/unfluffy explanations either tag me here or DM me on discord ill be happy to respond :)

We're also revamping both sets compendium and sample teams, should be out soonish-

 

[Synonimous]

Hello, ORAS post-PL changes.

VR Changes

Rises

S- > S

A+ > S-

A > A+

A- > A

A- > A

B+ > A-

B > B+

B- > B+

B- > B

B- > B

B- > B

C+ > B-

C+ > B-

C > C+

C+ > B-

C > C+

UR > C+

UR > C

Drops

A > A-

A- > B+

B+ > B

B+ > B

A- > B

B+ > B

B > B-

B > C+

B > C+

B- > C+

C+ > C

C+ > C

C+ > C

C+ > C

C- > UR

Some explanations;
Doesn't really fit into the S- rank as it on-par with the best of the best, its Spdf is probably the best rn an it can easily muscle through a bunch of specially offensive and offensive threats with a combination of Metal Burst + Sucker Punch + STAB/SD. It's able to beat top tier Pokemon counting PZ, Kyurem-Black, Mega Gyarados occasionally, Genesect, Gardevoir, Greninja, Sab-mega and etc..

Bulky af, splashable af, pretty good against most physical threats thanks to mega+priority wisp turn 1 + foul play / burst. Rly good against bunch of dragons, normal types, and lot of things that can't hit it super effectively. Struggles against prominent Fairy and Fire-type Pokemon that's why it's S- and not S.

Not a surprise, prime zard killer, amazing typing in Fire/Steel which allows it to muscle through fairies too notably mega-maw. Don't really have much ground-types roaming and with air balloon it negates the ground attack from choiced Pokemon. Still struggles against some top picks notably all water-types, and dragonite.

Unexplored pre-tournaments now after WC/Classic/PL it has become one of zard checks, rock/fairy is great offensively, it can also beat mega gyarados and some dragons, also can run multiple sets such as specs, weakness policy, mega stone.

Anything that can reliably kill zards is ranked high but this thing can actually beat most if not all special attackers like pz, heatran, meloetta, genesect which is really amazing in ORAS.

Drops are self explanatory, if anyone has any opposition or need better/unfluffy explanations either tag me here or DM me on discord ill be happy to respond :)

We're also revamping both sets compendium and sample teams, should be out soonish-

Drop KyuB to A+ already you cowards

 

[Close]

SM PL Usage

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Charizard | 68 | 12.78% | 52.94% |
| 2 | Gardevoir | 56 | 10.53% | 51.79% |
| 3 | Dragonite | 50 | 9.40% | 46.00% |
| 4 | Gyarados | 47 | 8.83% | 55.32% |
| 4 | Zeraora | 47 | 8.83% | 40.43% |
| 6 | Serperior | 46 | 8.65% | 50.00% |
| 7 | Metagross | 45 | 8.46% | 60.00% |
| 8 | Tapu Fini | 43 | 8.08% | 55.81% |
| 9 | Heatran | 40 | 7.52% | 37.50% |
| 10 | Tapu Lele | 38 | 7.14% | 50.00% |
| 11 | Garchomp | 37 | 6.95% | 51.35% |
| 11 | Greninja | 37 | 6.95% | 40.54% |
| 13 | Mawile | 36 | 6.77% | 55.56% |
| 14 | Primarina | 33 | 6.20% | 45.45% |
| 14 | Altaria | 33 | 6.20% | 36.36% |
| 16 | Victini | 30 | 5.64% | 60.00% |
| 16 | Porygon-Z | 30 | 5.64% | 50.00% |
| 18 | Incineroar | 27 | 5.08% | 62.96% |
| 19 | Slowbro | 26 | 4.89% | 57.69% |
| 19 | Magnezone | 26 | 4.89% | 34.62% |
| 21 | Aegislash | 25 | 4.70% | 68.00% |
| 21 | Volcarona | 25 | 4.70% | 44.00% |
| 23 | Landorus-Therian | 24 | 4.51% | 54.17% |
| 24 | Magearna | 22 | 4.14% | 59.09% |
| 24 | Venusaur | 22 | 4.14% | 45.45% |
| 24 | Tapu Bulu | 22 | 4.14% | 40.91% |
| 27 | Sableye | 21 | 3.95% | 42.86% |
| 27 | Kommo-o | 21 | 3.95% | 42.86% |
| 29 | Hoopa-Unbound | 20 | 3.76% | 65.00% |
| 29 | Registeel | 20 | 3.76% | 45.00% |
| 31 | Donphan | 19 | 3.57% | 63.16% |
| 31 | Zygarde | 19 | 3.57% | 52.63% |
| 31 | Genesect | 19 | 3.57% | 47.37% |
| 34 | Kyurem | 18 | 3.38% | 55.56% |
| 35 | Ambipom | 17 | 3.20% | 64.71% |
| 35 | Kartana | 17 | 3.20% | 58.82% |
| 37 | Meloetta | 16 | 3.01% | 50.00% |
| 38 | Tyranitar | 15 | 2.82% | 60.00% |
| 39 | Aggron | 14 | 2.63% | 50.00% |
| 40 | Sawk | 13 | 2.44% | 61.54% |
| 40 | Clefable | 13 | 2.44% | 46.15% |
| 42 | Pheromosa | 12 | 2.26% | 58.33% |
| 42 | Diancie | 12 | 2.26% | 58.33% |
| 42 | Swampert | 12 | 2.26% | 41.67% |
| 45 | Naganadel | 11 | 2.07% | 72.73% |
| 45 | Celesteela | 11 | 2.07% | 54.55% |
| 45 | Togekiss | 11 | 2.07% | 45.45% |
| 45 | Mew | 11 | 2.07% | 45.45% |
| 45 | Haxorus | 11 | 2.07% | 27.27% |
| 50 | Necrozma | 9 | 1.69% | 66.67% |
| 50 | Manaphy | 9 | 1.69% | 55.56% |
| 50 | Zapdos | 9 | 1.69% | 33.33% |
| 53 | Type: Null | 8 | 1.50% | 75.00% |
| 53 | Krookodile | 8 | 1.50% | 50.00% |
| 53 | Medicham | 8 | 1.50% | 37.50% |
| 56 | Porygon2 | 7 | 1.32% | 71.43% |
| 56 | Entei | 7 | 1.32% | 28.57% |
| 58 | Camerupt | 6 | 1.13% | 83.33% |
| 58 | Archeops | 6 | 1.13% | 50.00% |
| 58 | Pyukumuku | 6 | 1.13% | 50.00% |
| 58 | Crustle | 6 | 1.13% | 33.33% |
| 58 | Whimsicott | 6 | 1.13% | 33.33% |
| 58 | Lopunny | 6 | 1.13% | 33.33% |
| 58 | Blaziken | 6 | 1.13% | 16.67% |
| 58 | Gallade | 6 | 1.13% | 16.67% |
| 58 | Nihilego | 6 | 1.13% | 0.00% |
| 67 | Ferrothorn | 5 | 0.94% | 100.00% |
| 67 | Deoxys-Speed | 5 | 0.94% | 80.00% |
| 67 | Ninetales-Alola | 5 | 0.94% | 60.00% |
| 67 | Jumpluff | 5 | 0.94% | 60.00% |
| 67 | Avalugg | 5 | 0.94% | 40.00% |
| 72 | Rotom-Heat | 4 | 0.75% | 100.00% |
| 72 | Blacephalon | 4 | 0.75% | 75.00% |
| 72 | Diggersby | 4 | 0.75% | 75.00% |
| 72 | Scizor | 4 | 0.75% | 50.00% |
| 72 | Araquanid | 4 | 0.75% | 50.00% |
| 72 | Durant | 4 | 0.75% | 50.00% |
| 72 | Weavile | 4 | 0.75% | 25.00% |
| 72 | Carracosta | 4 | 0.75% | 25.00% |
| 72 | Gengar | 4 | 0.75% | 25.00% |
| 72 | Shaymin | 4 | 0.75% | 25.00% |
| 72 | Magneton | 4 | 0.75% | 25.00% |
| 72 | Latias | 4 | 0.75% | 0.00% |
| 84 | Pinsir | 3 | 0.56% | 66.67% |
| 84 | Regice | 3 | 0.56% | 66.67% |
| 84 | Slaking | 3 | 0.56% | 66.67% |
| 84 | Musharna | 3 | 0.56% | 66.67% |
| 84 | Pidgeot | 3 | 0.56% | 66.67% |
| 84 | Heracross | 3 | 0.56% | 66.67% |
| 84 | Steelix | 3 | 0.56% | 66.67% |
| 84 | Illumise | 3 | 0.56% | 66.67% |
| 84 | Terrakion | 3 | 0.56% | 33.33% |
| 84 | Hydreigon | 3 | 0.56% | 33.33% |
| 84 | Mantyke | 3 | 0.56% | 33.33% |
| 84 | Mamoswine | 3 | 0.56% | 33.33% |
| 84 | Jynx | 3 | 0.56% | 0.00% |
| 97 | Abomasnow | 2 | 0.38% | 100.00% |
| 97 | Quagsire | 2 | 0.38% | 100.00% |
| 97 | Umbreon | 2 | 0.38% | 100.00% |
| 97 | Nidoking | 2 | 0.38% | 100.00% |
| 97 | Raikou | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Chansey | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Volcanion | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Alakazam | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Darmanitan | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Audino | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Volbeat | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Meowstic | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Scrafty | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Onix | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Tangela | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Vivillon-Fancy | 2 | 0.38% | 50.00% |
| 97 | Gigalith | 2 | 0.38% | 0.00% |
| 97 | Ludicolo | 2 | 0.38% | 0.00% |
| 97 | Golem | 2 | 0.38% | 0.00% |
| 97 | Smeargle | 2 | 0.38% | 0.00% |
| 97 | Empoleon | 2 | 0.38% | 0.00% |
| 97 | Suicune | 2 | 0.38% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Seismitoad | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Espeon | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Landorus | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Tentacruel | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Chandelure | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Thundurus-Therian | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Lucario | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Aerodactyl | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Vivillon-Marine | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Salamence | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Sylveon | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Azumarill | 1 | 0.19% | 100.00% |
| 119 | Virizion | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Shedinja | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Articuno | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Skarmory | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Hitmontop | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Klefki | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Wailord | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Ursaring | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Swadloon | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Murkrow | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Vigoroth | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Lycanroc-Dusk | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Hitmonlee | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Banette | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Marowak-Alola | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Vaporeon | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Sceptile | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Drampa | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Cryogonal | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Talonflame | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |
| 119 | Jirachi | 1 | 0.19% | 0.00% |

Hello guys! I've wanted to do this post for some time, but I've never had the time and timing to do it. I would like to analyze a couple of things and try to "transport" them inside the VR. I think that some VR are not entirely correct, don't reflect the current metagame (I dont say it with an "arrogant air" , but it is only my thought).

( > A+) https://pokepast.es/11364c149510d743

With the rise of the Serperior team and the strong pressure of pokemon like Dragonite, Gyarados and Zeraora, Gardevoir turns out to be the best option that the metagame can offer. Ability to wisp and to be a good response also to various stall mons due to CM (or Taunt and Psyshock are viable realities) and the ability to have an offensive able to scary the subbbers and non-subbers (HVoice + HBeam). In this moment of the metagame is a threat of all respect like the A +

( > A- / A ) https://pokepast.es/2ce0e7b0cf54e162

The data speak , this pokemon has centralized team building and absolutely does not deserve the place where it is now. LeechStall is an autowin tech and combined with Contrary + Excellent Speed makes it one of the central mon of the metagame ... Thinking of having nothing against serp in sm is autoloss. Excellent as "core partener" of most metagame pokemon, eg: RegiSerp. Viable set also the mirror coat set for huts Garde & Kommo-or its main counters.

Main Solid cores with serp:
- Victini / Serperior
- Garchomp / Serperior
- Metagross / Serperior
- Serperior / Registeel
- Aggron / Serperior
- Gyarados / Serperior
- Dragonite / Serperior
- ...

This ability to fit solidly with most pokemon of the metagame is certainly not a characteristic like B + mons

(>B+ / A-) https://pokepast.es/29201a8e773dcd14

For the same reason as serperior: the ability to centralize the building and cover most of the metagame pokemon. One of the best staller atm, together with Slowbro-Mega, and for the same reason, having nothing for him in your team is crazy since the usage of this mon has become stable and relatively high.

(> A- / A) https://pokepast.es/920399fb4aabe08f

definitely yes. The "trend" of the metagame means that this mon must take at least one position. In addition to the usage data, its sets are able to scary a large part of the current metagame.

( >B+) https://pokepast.es/8247d84994daf0d2

Being able to beat the top of the metagame so well, is not for everyone. Taunt+ Metal Burst+ be a killer chars, Sturdy&Filter atm is a functional and effective combination. In my opinion, a position must earn it.

Other Shift (Maybe i forgot some mons)

> A+
> A
> B-
>B
>B+
>B-
>B-
>B+
> B-/c+
> B-
> B
> B
> B-
> B- / B
> B-
> C
>B-
> C
> C+

 

[DEG]

Hello :)
With WC around the corner some outsiders will be learning ORAS/BW so I decided to revamp the sets compendium for ORAS and BW to make it easier for them. Sets were provided by respective councils and I put them up inside a pokepaste. Thank you both councils for your collaboration. If you any comment/question, DM me! :)

ORAS: https://pokepast.es/6785f5dce2cfdc72
BW: https://pokepast.es/e54e721d04c87cd0
Both have missing Pokemon and sets and they will be added over time.

ORAS Council has also added more sample teams! Decided to keep the old ones for now, but they will be replaced soon, so if you have any team you'd like to submit DM me!

Thank you~