I don't think giving a Pokémon a "set" personality is any different than assuming a Pokemon's personality from its facial expression (the smirks of Gengar/Electrode/Cloyster, the rage of Primeape/Gyarados/Mewtwo, the various expressions from the heads of Dodrio and Exeggutor) or its Pokédex entries (Cubone is noted to cry often, Tyranitar razes mountains). I guess its pushed more for starters in promotional material but a Pokemon's general disposition is as much a part of its design as its Moves, Abilities, or other flavor choices IMO.
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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
Huh, that's something I haven't thought about: how do you measure the Pokemon that are made up of multiple individuals? Notably for Dugtrio, Magneton, Exeggcute, Klink, Binacle, and Falinks. Because while Falink's "height" is actually the length of the whole group together (or I guess standing on top of one another), that's still a bit wonky logistically. The measurement should be the height & weight of one individual member of the group (or have multiple if members of the group have different heights & weights).
While I agree the games should at least have a metric conversion, if not go all metric if game mechanics are going to use height and weight for stuff, I don't see how GF not distinguishing between height, length, or wingspan is the translation team's fault.
Pokemon has done that since the start. Maybe not with the Starters, but here's a list of Gen I Pokemon that I can recall supposed to have a set personality even if their Nature suggests otherwise: Spearow family, Meowth family, Mankey family, Slowpoke family, Chansey family, Mr. Mime family, Gyarados, & Mewtwo.
Also, going back to a point above, what about Pokemon that have either multiple members or at least multiple heads? Shouldn't each member/head have their own personality, they all share the same Nature?
Also how can you tell the personality of some Pokemon like the Staryu family?
Finally, even if the Pokemon's design wouldn't technically limit it from having certain personalities, the designs of some Pokemon still says something about the Pokemon and so some Natures wouldn't feel right. Like can you imagine a Lonely Magneton? Timid Machamp? Naive Alakazam? Quiet Jigglypuff?
And I'm just using Gen I, there's a bunch more examples from other gens (I don't quite have the time to look through right now).
Why does everyone assume Oshawott is supposed to be serious? Because it's not smiling in its stock art? Even though we have many other artwork pieces of it smiling (and not just from the anime, heck Oshawott got new stock art for it in BW2 that has it smiling). I just assumed it's not smiling because the artist may have wanted to accentuate the otter design.
(Even though these otters are playing on a water slide they're not smiling, they must be super serious)
I wouldn't say that. All Kalos Starters & Rowlet don't look to have a "determined" personality. Only all the Galar Starters were given "hard" personality traits exhibited by the species by the whole. Also it's not just the newer Starters that did that. I recall Totodile was supposed to be this happy-go-lucky Pokemon.
Let's remember the stock art is going to want to show the Pokemon in the most appealing way possible. Cuter Pokemon they're going to draw them happy or in some way that's charming or will make you empathetic to them. Tougher Pokemon are going to be drawn with fiercer or confident faces and poses. Beautiful Pokemon are going to be drawn gracefully or in a subtle alluring the artist can get away with in a PG game. However, unless the Dex or another official source states otherwise, there's nothing saying the Pokemon can't have its personality reflect the Nature it has. Also just because the Pokemon is said to act in a certain way doesn't mean its going against the Nature but rather maybe that Pokemon has a unique way to combine its species behavior with its individual Nature (you just got to be a bit creative).
Yeah, combined with its big black eyes, Oshawott just looks like a baby who has no idea what the fuck is going on.
I assume it just treats them as a single unit and considers it length/height based on how the pokemon (even if there's 2-6 of them) presents itself. Magneton may be 3 magnemite stuck together, but it's still "Magneton" and its 3 components are treated as one 3-foot-tall unit, to put it another way.
e: If Exeggcute presented itself in a line isntead of as a clutch it would probably be 6 feet instead of 1
I believe the whole interview is in that link in the Twitter status, but it's gone around before that when planning out the Unova starters, Oshawott's role was supposed to be that of the "serious one" (compared to the others). Still cutest starter ever tho.
Maybe at some point after the final design (and before the BW2 artwork) they decided to swap Tepig and Oshawott's roles. Perhaps that's where the anime could have had an influence?
*Looks at Snivy.*
What do you mean it's not the smuggest snake in the world?
A lot of this stuff you criticized isn't really true, mons usually have some character traits in their design, Sentret is known to be paranoid, meanwhile Rookidee won't really have any noticeable character traits in its design.
It's a design choice that really varies from mon to mon and it's not tied to 3D models at all.
You could make the argument that maybe having starters with strong character traits in their design might not be good because of their status as starters, but this has nothing to do with the "3D vs Sprites" argument.
Of course, that's what I was trying to say.
Everyone gets a starter and an adventure with it, bonding with it along the way and often creating a bit of personality for it. It's just that in the recent games, the starters have got such a pre-defined personality that you lose that flexibility in storytelling. For instance, your average Chikorita or Piplup feels like it could be happy-go-lucky, serious, caring, mischievous, or determined to overcome its weaknesses. It's easy to imagine it with a variety of behaviours and facial expressions, because the way it is presented in its games is a blank canvas. A neutral expression and very little in terms of body language.
With 3D models, the designers are free to give a Pokémon a more set personality, and on one hand you can't really fault them for doing so, but the end result is that the starter feels very railroaded into one specific behaviour with pre-defined character traits you can't change. The Pokémon will express one behaviour and one behaviour only, and it will do so strongly. This removes that bit of individuality that previously used to exist.
It's not a fault of 3D models per se, it's more a fault of designers giving the starters a behaviour from the onset. It really adds to that feeling of the games being played for you.
This could easily be a coincidence, but I haven't really considered my starter to be my main partner in any playthrough I've done of a game later than gen 4. Now obviously for some of them I'm doing a run type that prohibits using the starter, but even then I could have easily run different parameters if I cared for it. Again, this could just be that I'm less interested in starters in general (since I went with Aron in ORAS, for example), but it could also mean that newer starters are less engaging to be the focus of a playthrough.
Yeah this just seems like a matter of taste. I found myself more attached to my starters gen 4-8 than I realy did 1-3, even on repeated playthroughs. Except for Snivy, basically, who I kept trying to use and just kept boxing, haha.
Wally Battle Maison rematches: I'll start running Smogon OU sets.
Also Wally running Smogon OU sets:
Also Wally running Smogon OU sets:
Don't be too hard on the guy, he's still figuring out how competitive works. Maybe he's still trying to get a baby Budew/Roselia with good IVs and Technician, and that Roserade is filler :P
He has a Grass/Fire/Water core and a Dragon/Fairy/Steel core (Magnezone not shown) so he's learning.
To be honest, ORAS Wally's rematch team is a "little thing that annoys me in Pokémon" - but not for that reason, exactly. I don't like ORAS Wally in general, really. :l
The thing about Wally is... his character arc is all about how he started out being told that he was too weak to do anything or to be a strong Trainer, but he never gave up, and thanks to the support of his friends - his Pokémon - he finally became one of the best Trainers in the region.
And he still didn't become famous for his strength or become the Champion or anything, but that was okay with him because now he had his friends and he had his freedom, and that was all he ever wanted; he was a perfect example of how people and Pokémon help each other and how there's more to being a Trainer than just winning.
In fact... even when he does want to win, just look what he says about it:
"But I'm not going to lose anymore! I'm going to win! For the Pokémon who gave me courage and strength!"
For that matter, his illness was never just "fixed" - his story showed that he could find strength of his own and go as far as he wanted in life even if his body was holding him back. He does suggest in Emerald that he's working on becoming healthier and more fit, but at no point is that side of him just forgotten.
ORAS threw this out the window.
By the end of ORAS, Wally becomes an exaggeratedly talented battler who's totally focused on winning above all else; to that end, he throws out half of his team and continues to talk about adding and cutting team members after he's defeated (hmm... because he thought they were too weak to do anything or be strong Pokémon, instead of never giving up and supporting them? now where have I heard these before?), and he seemingly he no longer cares that they were the friends who supported him and helped him to go so far.
The dialogue surrounding his postgame rematch highlights this - unlike his Victory Road battle (where he still says "My Pokémon have given me the courage and strength to fight. I have to win for their sake!" before the fight and now adds "Gallade... Everyone.... Thank you so much... I feel like I've been able to take another step forward thanks to you!" after it), all Wally talks about in the postgame is his strength and how he put together the best team he could. He doesn't talk to his Pokémon once, and he only talks about their strength in battle, saying nothing of their relationship.
In every other game, this would be a bad thing - this is why Professor Oak calls out Blue; it's the mindset Silver grows out of; it's the mistake Hop almost makes, and the satisfying conclusion to his arc is when he realizes he was wrong, adds his old companions back and resolves to win with them at his side. None of these three are my favorite rivals, but at least their development is in the right direction...
Wally's competitive nature and his team upgrade are "cool," but they're just blatant fanservice that loses sight of the story he was actually meant to tell. And I mean... the "fanservice" clearly worked - he's one of the most popular characters in ORAS, to the point of being their one cameo in Alola (Anabel didn't exist in ORAS) - but at what cost? I just don't think he's well written as a character any more.
(And as if they were trying to tie his arc in a neat bow, his parents comment on how he's perfectly healthy in the end - not "he's working on getting physically stronger and getting healthier every day," but "like wow I can't believe he's perfectly fine now! never thought I'd see the day! haha it's a miracle right? hope he's careful out there!" By the time he gets his postgame makeover, he no longer is the frail child who works hard to overcome adversity - his health problems disappeared to make room for his new status as the cool competitive rival and the strongest Trainer in Hoenn, as if to say that these character traits cannot coexist.
Not only does this completely miss the point of his arc, but it just adds to the negative implications of his eventual team changes - now that he's no longer dependent on those Pokémon that took him so far, drops them at the first chance he gets in favor of stronger ones.)
To their credit, most of ORAS's characters were straight upgrades over the originals and I mean... RSE Wally was pure and a precious cinnamon roll, but he didn't really have much of a role to speak of, so it's not like he was a favorite character until the remakes ruined him, but Wally stands out as the one person whose overhaul was just... catastrophically bad. There were so many other ways to make him better that would have supported and built upon his original story instead of undermining it, and this was just the worst possible direction he could have been taken.
Also, his final battle theme is so overrated. Like, I actually love his encounter theme, but his battle theme isn't even a proper rearrangement of it - just a grating electric guitar remix.
I find that it's both too short and repetitive to be a battle theme (compare someone like Colress, whose theme was slowed down, rearranged around the same melody and had a new intro designed to work as a battle theme) and, in my opinion, it kinda sounds like it really wasn't meant to be played on the instruments that were used in the remix.
I dunno - it just doesn't sound good to me, but it's an epic rock remix to top off an "empowering" character arc, so it's super popular...
I actually like most of the ORAS soundtrack - maybe even more than the next person - but this one song just doesn't do it for me at all. How is it the most popular one??
The thing about Wally is... his character arc is all about how he started out being told that he was too weak to do anything or to be a strong Trainer, but he never gave up, and thanks to the support of his friends - his Pokémon - he finally became one of the best Trainers in the region.
And he still didn't become famous for his strength or become the Champion or anything, but that was okay with him because now he had his friends and he had his freedom, and that was all he ever wanted; he was a perfect example of how people and Pokémon help each other and how there's more to being a Trainer than just winning.
In fact... even when he does want to win, just look what he says about it:
"But I'm not going to lose anymore! I'm going to win! For the Pokémon who gave me courage and strength!"
For that matter, his illness was never just "fixed" - his story showed that he could find strength of his own and go as far as he wanted in life even if his body was holding him back. He does suggest in Emerald that he's working on becoming healthier and more fit, but at no point is that side of him just forgotten.
ORAS threw this out the window.
By the end of ORAS, Wally becomes an exaggeratedly talented battler who's totally focused on winning above all else; to that end, he throws out half of his team and continues to talk about adding and cutting team members after he's defeated (hmm... because he thought they were too weak to do anything or be strong Pokémon, instead of never giving up and supporting them? now where have I heard these before?), and he seemingly he no longer cares that they were the friends who supported him and helped him to go so far.
The dialogue surrounding his postgame rematch highlights this - unlike his Victory Road battle (where he still says "My Pokémon have given me the courage and strength to fight. I have to win for their sake!" before the fight and now adds "Gallade... Everyone.... Thank you so much... I feel like I've been able to take another step forward thanks to you!" after it), all Wally talks about in the postgame is his strength and how he put together the best team he could. He doesn't talk to his Pokémon once, and he only talks about their strength in battle, saying nothing of their relationship.
In every other game, this would be a bad thing - this is why Professor Oak calls out Blue; it's the mindset Silver grows out of; it's the mistake Hop almost makes, and the satisfying conclusion to his arc is when he realizes he was wrong, adds his old companions back and resolves to win with them at his side. None of these three are my favorite rivals, but at least their development is in the right direction...
Wally's competitive nature and his team upgrade are "cool," but they're just blatant fanservice that loses sight of the story he was actually meant to tell. And I mean... the "fanservice" clearly worked - he's one of the most popular characters in ORAS, to the point of being their one cameo in Alola (Anabel didn't exist in ORAS) - but at what cost? I just don't think he's well written as a character any more.
(And as if they were trying to tie his arc in a neat bow, his parents comment on how he's perfectly healthy in the end - not "he's working on getting physically stronger and getting healthier every day," but "like wow I can't believe he's perfectly fine now! never thought I'd see the day! haha it's a miracle right? hope he's careful out there!" By the time he gets his postgame makeover, he no longer is the frail child who works hard to overcome adversity - his health problems disappeared to make room for his new status as the cool competitive rival and the strongest Trainer in Hoenn, as if to say that these character traits cannot coexist.
Not only does this completely miss the point of his arc, but it just adds to the negative implications of his eventual team changes - now that he's no longer dependent on those Pokémon that took him so far, drops them at the first chance he gets in favor of stronger ones.)
To their credit, most of ORAS's characters were straight upgrades over the originals and I mean... RSE Wally was pure and a precious cinnamon roll, but he didn't really have much of a role to speak of, so it's not like he was a favorite character until the remakes ruined him, but Wally stands out as the one person whose overhaul was just... catastrophically bad. There were so many other ways to make him better that would have supported and built upon his original story instead of undermining it, and this was just the worst possible direction he could have been taken.
Also, his final battle theme is so overrated. Like, I actually love his encounter theme, but his battle theme isn't even a proper rearrangement of it - just a grating electric guitar remix.
I find that it's both too short and repetitive to be a battle theme (compare someone like Colress, whose theme was slowed down, rearranged around the same melody and had a new intro designed to work as a battle theme) and, in my opinion, it kinda sounds like it really wasn't meant to be played on the instruments that were used in the remix.
I dunno - it just doesn't sound good to me, but it's an epic rock remix to top off an "empowering" character arc, so it's super popular...
I actually like most of the ORAS soundtrack - maybe even more than the next person - but this one song just doesn't do it for me at all. How is it the most popular one??
If its any consolation, in the Battle Tree, Wally uses Altaria again along side Magnezone, Gallade, and the Garchomp from the rematches, so the only member from his original team that got kicked out after the main story is Delicatty, which is considered useless outside of Normalize shenanigans. But you're right that nobody calls out Wally on focusing on strength alone. Some people view Wally new arc as a take-that to competitive players leaving behind their main team and focusing only on the best.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
This is material more cut out for the Unpopular Opinions thread, saying you don't like ORAS Wally is a pretty damn spicy take!
I've heard a couple of complaints about Wally's portrayal in the postgame, and looking at his dialogue I definitely don't think it was meant to come off as sinister or anything and I don't see even unintentional connotations like that, more or less like a kid navigating for the first time through competitive Pokemon and overthinking things a bit. If you wanna get granular enough if you look at his final ORAS postgame team and SM Battle Tree squads the only original Victory Road teammate who is permanently replaced is Delcatty. In short, Wally getting more "competitive" seems to be not so much a misguided bid at absolute power above all else like it was for Blue or Hop and more just trying different tactics and builds, something which is a substantial part of being a Pokemon Trainer in-universe.
You yourself explain a big part of the reason why people love ORAS Wally so much more over the original: Regardless of any flawed execution of his new self, it's still a massive improvement over his original counterpart who is very bluntly an extremely flimsy nothing character only marginally above the XY rivals. Wally still carries some of the faults of his original incarnation even (notably the absolutely horrendous pacing of his story) but with far more memorable and well-presented moments when he is on-screen. I'll give you this: Among the various high-profile revamps to the RSE cast ORAS made, Wally is probably on the lower rung (Team Magma and Aqua, Brendan and May and even Wallace got even more attention and care into fleshing them out), but he's still pretty cool and regardless of your own feelings certainly redefined the character for the better for a new audience. I also agree that his theme is pretty overrated, for me the main issue is the loop is way too short, coulda extended it a bit I reckon.
Very good points. That said GF seems to have admitted via other NPCs that, if you want to beat the Battle Maison you may need to train up a better team regardless whether you have a connection with those Pokemon. I think a middle ground could have easily been done:
On Mondays, Wally is training up a team for Single Battles.
On Tuesday, Wally is training up a team for Double Battles.
On Wednesday, Wally is training up a team for Triple Battles.
On Thursday, Wally is training up a team for Rotation Battles.
On Friday, Wally will be training a Multi Battle team alongside one of the other Multi Battle partners (Brendan/May, Maxie, Archie, or Steven).
On Saturday & Sunday, Wally will be training his original team (plus a 6th Pokemon), maybe even have him visiting his family in Petalburg or Wanda/aunt/uncle in Verdanturf instead of being at the Battle Maison.
You can show he's taking battling more seriously but also show he does still care about his original team. But his original team, at least Altaria and Delcatty, are just not competitive Pokemon and if he wants to seek a career as a professional Pokemon trainer he's going to need to have to train separate teams made for that battle format. So weekdays he professionally trains, but weekends he visits his family and uses his casual team.
To be fair, that ideological dissonance between main and post game extends beyond Wally. Wally only starts discarding members of his team once he reaches the Battle Resort, and if you want any chance at success there, you have to do the exact same thing. It's the same story in every single game with a post-game battle facility. The main game preaches the importance of a bond between trainer and Pokemon, and then the post game takes that idea, throws it in the garbage, and tells the protagonist "You thought you were living in a shonen My Little Pony world where the power of friendship conquers all? Fuck that! Welcome to real life, kid. Get good or get out."
I think the underlying issue is that Pokemon games frame almost everything through the lens of battle and competition. They teach players the value of companionship and cooperation, but pretty much the only way the games show the positive effects of prosocial behavior is by saying "it will make you stronger and more able to win". This is not a healthy mindset. Not every friend you make has to bring you tangible success. They just need to be enjoyable to interact with. Likewise, not everyone who brings you tangible success has to be your friend. There's a word for valuing friendship over qualifications. It's called nepotism.
Battle facilities and Amie/Refresh/Camp/Whatever are decent ways to counteract the toxic mindset of the main game (even if Amie and its successors are undercut by giving battle perks) but there need to be more NPCs who acknowledge that friendship and battle effectiveness are not mutually inclusive. More instances like James and his Chimecho, where a competitive trainer and Pokemon clearly have a strong bond, but the trainer doesn't use that Pokemon for in competition. In Wally's case, maybe his Delcatty and Altaria could be found living a domestic life wherever Wally lives (is it Petalburg or Verdanturf?) and Wally would visit periodically sort of like what Pikachu315111 envisioned, or they could just follow him around the Battle Resort.
Just want to say this is easily one of my favourite posts on this site already. I think you pretty much summed up in a few paragraphs a lot of what I've been trying to articulate about Pokémon's archaic design and conflicting messages for ages in a very concise, succinct way. Kudos, this is good shit
Petalburg is where his mom and dad are. Verdanturf is where his cousin Wanda, her boyfriend, aunt, and uncle live. As for where Wally is living, at this point he's probably a travelling hobo like the player, living Pokemon Center to Pokemon Center on his quest to be the best.
DrPumpkinz... hmm, that's a really interesting take with respect to how "friends are necessarily battle partners" is kind of an awkward message for the series to push in the first place.
I hadn't considered it before at all, but you're right that "these are our friends" automatically meaning "we must use them to the best of our ability and make the most of their strength for our own purposes" comes off as kind of selfish in its own way...
Honestly, that's actually a fascinating take in general, and I would love to see a character who was designed around that from the start give it the attention it deserves.
On the other hand, I've always understood the reason a Pokémon accepts a Trainer in the first place to be because a Trainer can help it reach heights it couldn't reach on its own, in very much the same way that Pokémon help Trainers to do things a human can't alone.
I guess the thing that bothers me about it is that, from what we know, Pokémon (or specifically ones that allow themselves to be caught by Trainers and used in battle - "If a Pokémon really didn't want anything to do with humans, it would simply leave... Capturing a Pokémon in a Poké Ball doesn't mean you've captured its heart." and all that) actually do want to become stronger and are competitive by nature, and a Trainer catching a Pokémon is kind of a promise to help them; Wally sort of rubbed me the wrong way because I read his removal of Delcatty from his team as reneging on that promise.
I mean, if we're to read the relationship between people and Pokémon in any positive way at all, I don't think I would consider "being a battling Pokémon" to be an occupation - it's like being a student, or even a client if we think of "training Pokémon" to be the job of the Trainer. Giving up on a business partner because they're not working out for you is one thing, but I think giving up on a student or a client because they're not meeting your expectations is another, and to be honest, that's just how I've always thought to interpret it?
That aside, one of the core messages of the series is, again, "the power of friendship makes you strong" - it's incredibly cheesy and I love it, but it's definitely something the series wants to prove. And whether that's a message that necessarily works well for the competitive angle or if it's something we should really want the series to say about the relationship between people and Pokémon, that doesn't make Wally's arc any less of a contradiction of it.
I actually really like what you and Pikachu315111 have suggested about actually showing Altaria and Delcatty living happily in his home or something - and, in general, the implication that maybe Altaria and Delcatty just didn't want to go as far as Wally did and were satisfied with what he had done for them - but I still dislike what the games suggest: that it's just because they didn't have a place in his competitive dreams any more.
I fully recognize that that's a very real part of the series, especially for real players working in competitions, but it's something every other game in the series has tried to dispel, and I would much rather see the games move in a direction where that's no longer a necessity rather than see the stories move in a direction that embraces that as a necessary evil.
I'm getting slightly off topic and slightly rambly at this point, but to elaborate on what such a direction might mean:
I think features like Ability Capsules, Hyper Training and now the ability to share Egg moves have gone a long way towards making it... at least possible for every Pokémon to reach the full potential of its species I think all that's left on this front is Hidden Abilities, ways to reduce IVs, and making past Gen moves more accessible? - the next step would just be to try to help Pokémon like Delcatty that people feel obligated to cut from their teams.
In fairness to Wally, Delcatty doesn't necessarily have to be viable on the same team as Pokémon like Gallade, Roserade and Magnezone and even then, Delcatty does have that one gimmick strategy in doubles, although I think it kind of just contributes Normalize to an ally and immediately peaces out but in a perfect world, I would like to see every Pokémon made unique enough not to be strictly outclassed and competent enough to be reliable at whatever one niche it's trying to accomplish, no matter what tier it's in. "Everything is equally viable" sounds like both an impossibility and a mess (centralization is important to stop games from being totally team matchup-based), but "everything has a place on a serious team, even if it's a very rare one" sounds like it's perfectly achievable and would go a long way towards supporting the idea that a Trainer can bring out the best in every Pokémon and a "good" Trainer is the one who succeeds at that rather than the one who wins. Definitely agree with you that that's not where we are right now - but I think it's where we should be, not based on the idea that being strong is a trained Pokémon's job but based on the idea that drawing out their potential is a Trainer's job.
I actually think the new standard of dex cuts creates a perfect opportunity to do something like this - sort of like the Clean Slate mods we have here: when you don't have to balance every single Pokémon in existence, it becomes much easier to make sure the Pokémon you do keep all have something valuable to offer. Sword and Shield did next to nothing to that end, but it's something I'd like to see in the future.
Now, personally, I don't necessarily think Wally was really aimed at highlighting that (and if he was, he could've been written to express that better, too), nor that his initial arc makes for the best starting point if you do want to write a character who engages with that perspective, so I still kinda don't like how he was written - when "friendship is what makes you strong" is something the series has been so adamant about promoting for its entire lifespan, it takes more than a character arc just ignoring that to be a compelling counterpoint or a convincing acknowledgment of the flaws in that point of view.
So... I half-agree with your point, and it's definitely something I would like to give more consideration (and to see the series give more consideration!), but I stand by my dislike for Wally specifically. XP
With respect to nothing about Wally's dialogue coming off as all that sinister, though, Yung Dramps: that's kind of my point - that his arc seems totally oblivious to how much it contradicts the main morals of the series, rather than being deliberate about it or trying to make a statement, whether a nuanced one like DrPumpkinz suggests about how legitimate those morals are or a negative one about the nature of Wally as a character.
I hadn't considered it before at all, but you're right that "these are our friends" automatically meaning "we must use them to the best of our ability and make the most of their strength for our own purposes" comes off as kind of selfish in its own way...
Honestly, that's actually a fascinating take in general, and I would love to see a character who was designed around that from the start give it the attention it deserves.
On the other hand, I've always understood the reason a Pokémon accepts a Trainer in the first place to be because a Trainer can help it reach heights it couldn't reach on its own, in very much the same way that Pokémon help Trainers to do things a human can't alone.
I guess the thing that bothers me about it is that, from what we know, Pokémon (or specifically ones that allow themselves to be caught by Trainers and used in battle - "If a Pokémon really didn't want anything to do with humans, it would simply leave... Capturing a Pokémon in a Poké Ball doesn't mean you've captured its heart." and all that) actually do want to become stronger and are competitive by nature, and a Trainer catching a Pokémon is kind of a promise to help them; Wally sort of rubbed me the wrong way because I read his removal of Delcatty from his team as reneging on that promise.
I mean, if we're to read the relationship between people and Pokémon in any positive way at all, I don't think I would consider "being a battling Pokémon" to be an occupation - it's like being a student, or even a client if we think of "training Pokémon" to be the job of the Trainer. Giving up on a business partner because they're not working out for you is one thing, but I think giving up on a student or a client because they're not meeting your expectations is another, and to be honest, that's just how I've always thought to interpret it?
That aside, one of the core messages of the series is, again, "the power of friendship makes you strong" - it's incredibly cheesy and I love it, but it's definitely something the series wants to prove. And whether that's a message that necessarily works well for the competitive angle or if it's something we should really want the series to say about the relationship between people and Pokémon, that doesn't make Wally's arc any less of a contradiction of it.
I actually really like what you and Pikachu315111 have suggested about actually showing Altaria and Delcatty living happily in his home or something - and, in general, the implication that maybe Altaria and Delcatty just didn't want to go as far as Wally did and were satisfied with what he had done for them - but I still dislike what the games suggest: that it's just because they didn't have a place in his competitive dreams any more.
I fully recognize that that's a very real part of the series, especially for real players working in competitions, but it's something every other game in the series has tried to dispel, and I would much rather see the games move in a direction where that's no longer a necessity rather than see the stories move in a direction that embraces that as a necessary evil.
I'm getting slightly off topic and slightly rambly at this point, but to elaborate on what such a direction might mean:
I think features like Ability Capsules, Hyper Training and now the ability to share Egg moves have gone a long way towards making it... at least possible for every Pokémon to reach the full potential of its species I think all that's left on this front is Hidden Abilities, ways to reduce IVs, and making past Gen moves more accessible? - the next step would just be to try to help Pokémon like Delcatty that people feel obligated to cut from their teams.
In fairness to Wally, Delcatty doesn't necessarily have to be viable on the same team as Pokémon like Gallade, Roserade and Magnezone and even then, Delcatty does have that one gimmick strategy in doubles, although I think it kind of just contributes Normalize to an ally and immediately peaces out but in a perfect world, I would like to see every Pokémon made unique enough not to be strictly outclassed and competent enough to be reliable at whatever one niche it's trying to accomplish, no matter what tier it's in. "Everything is equally viable" sounds like both an impossibility and a mess (centralization is important to stop games from being totally team matchup-based), but "everything has a place on a serious team, even if it's a very rare one" sounds like it's perfectly achievable and would go a long way towards supporting the idea that a Trainer can bring out the best in every Pokémon and a "good" Trainer is the one who succeeds at that rather than the one who wins. Definitely agree with you that that's not where we are right now - but I think it's where we should be, not based on the idea that being strong is a trained Pokémon's job but based on the idea that drawing out their potential is a Trainer's job.
I actually think the new standard of dex cuts creates a perfect opportunity to do something like this - sort of like the Clean Slate mods we have here: when you don't have to balance every single Pokémon in existence, it becomes much easier to make sure the Pokémon you do keep all have something valuable to offer. Sword and Shield did next to nothing to that end, but it's something I'd like to see in the future.
Now, personally, I don't necessarily think Wally was really aimed at highlighting that (and if he was, he could've been written to express that better, too), nor that his initial arc makes for the best starting point if you do want to write a character who engages with that perspective, so I still kinda don't like how he was written - when "friendship is what makes you strong" is something the series has been so adamant about promoting for its entire lifespan, it takes more than a character arc just ignoring that to be a compelling counterpoint or a convincing acknowledgment of the flaws in that point of view.
So... I half-agree with your point, and it's definitely something I would like to give more consideration (and to see the series give more consideration!), but I stand by my dislike for Wally specifically. XP
With respect to nothing about Wally's dialogue coming off as all that sinister, though, Yung Dramps: that's kind of my point - that his arc seems totally oblivious to how much it contradicts the main morals of the series, rather than being deliberate about it or trying to make a statement, whether a nuanced one like DrPumpkinz suggests about how legitimate those morals are or a negative one about the nature of Wally as a character.
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Oh make no mistake, I don't think they were trying to make a point with Wally. Wally abandoning his Delcatty and Altaria just because they aren't good is absolutely a dumb idea within the logic of Pokemon. However, I only think it's dumb because the logic of Pokemon itself is so flawed that it turns what should be a normal healthy action into something horrible.
While the student/client interpretation is nice in a vacuum, it somewhat contradicts the "win with your favorites" message of the rest of the game, and it has a few disturbing implications. You say that only the Pokemon who want to become stronger and competitive allow themselves to be captured, but given that this applies to every single wild Pokemon you encounter, including legendary Pokemon who have a duty to maintain the natural order, it suggests that all Pokemon are inherently competitive and frankly power hungry. I find it upsetting to think that every domestic animal resents its caretaker for not training it to beat up other animals, or that anyone in a position of power and responsibility can be swayed from their vital role with a promise of more power (this does actually happen sometimes, but that doesn't make it any less upsetting).
I can't say I paid enough attention to have a real opinion on the particularities of Wally's story, but I do think that a limited dex actively goes against a champion narrative. It inherently pulls it down from "you've helped your team be at the top of the world" to "you've helped your team be at the top of some arbitrary microcosm where you'll never actually know how good they actually are compared to everything else." It's why it was so intuitive to think of Leon as having faked it: he's undefeated... within the houserules a good friend of his made. I absolutely think that pokemon should strive for each mon having its own niche rather than homogenizing the dex, but I'm a lot more willing to accept highly specific niches than limiting the selection to enforce uniqueness.
I don't think anyone with the "Leon's a fake" theory thought such beacuse the dex was limited (otherwise every single champion in the series would be in the umbrella) as much as it's a not-uncommon trope in storytelling based around competition that the big star is a big phony.
see also why everyone pegged Rose as the villain from the first second he was on screen because of course the extremely pleasant but very important owner/philanthropist that loves his region would be a villain.
And also why everyone was suspicious of Lusamine even without the Lillie & Gladion intersections
e: Pokemon take the fake out villain challenge, please.
see also why everyone pegged Rose as the villain from the first second he was on screen because of course the extremely pleasant but very important owner/philanthropist that loves his region would be a villain.
And also why everyone was suspicious of Lusamine even without the Lillie & Gladion intersections
e: Pokemon take the fake out villain challenge, please.
Huh, didn't think of it that way but I kind of like that idea.
Now if they did what I suggested I do think Altaria would probably be used again, probably in the Double/Triple/Rotation battles as base Altaria is better used as a defensive support Pokemon.
So that just leaves Delcatty and I kind of like the idea that, after helping Wally reach the top, Delcatty itself just didn't have it in it to do this competitive battling stuff. So seeing this, Wally "retires" Delcatty letting it live as a domestic Pokemon but on weekdays Wally is being casual and the player also drops by it gets an itch for a good ol' non-competitive battle so joins Wally team. Then after the battle the itch has been scratched and goes to take a cat nap.
I don't think they intended Leon to be a "fake", he is honestly a fairly challenging Champion if you're not careful. It's just that the player is essentially a prodigy as they're being controlled by a human being.