No.. only added mons start in OU...
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Metagame NP: RU Stage 1 - I Lost Something in the Hills (Indeedee-M banned)
- Thread starter phantom
- Start date
- Status
Mavis
Banned deucer.
quick post detailing my thoughts on these shifts because I don't have time to make a full video
this will be gone by the end of the month simply due to people spamming it in higher tiers, but right now i really like the added boost grassy terrain gives swords dance sets. whiffing a slightly weaker earthquake 5% of the time sucks ass, but the terrain more than makes up for this. lastly, defensive leech seed sets could possibly be a thing due to the absurd amount of passive healing keeping rilla topped off very well.
wow, this thing cannot do ANYTHING besides set stealth rocks. never once in a game have i seen it do anything besides wall my snorlax out for the first fifteen turns, eat a knock off or a toxic, then promptly become death fodder afterwards. it's a massive momentum drain and most of what it wants to wall is done better by sableye. drampa is also at an all time high, and it completely cockblocks galarsola from doing anything of note. let it go to nu, it'll probably be helpful for their toxicroak infestation.
this is cool, albeit kinda niche. it's a fast frail choice bander that can pull some shenanigans with memento or sucker punch. probably won't last here, but for the time being it's pretty neat.
i haven't seen torkoal a single time since shifts and frankly, i'm not sure if there's much to see. it should more or less be doing the exact same shit it did during alpha before ou stole it during their venusaur obsession set in. albeit, this time gigalith isn't here to get in its way, so perhaps it can get more done since it doesn't need body press. should be a nice addition to balance teams.
goodbye bitch you were a cancer on our tier, plume meta here we come
this will be gone by the end of the month simply due to people spamming it in higher tiers, but right now i really like the added boost grassy terrain gives swords dance sets. whiffing a slightly weaker earthquake 5% of the time sucks ass, but the terrain more than makes up for this. lastly, defensive leech seed sets could possibly be a thing due to the absurd amount of passive healing keeping rilla topped off very well.
wow, this thing cannot do ANYTHING besides set stealth rocks. never once in a game have i seen it do anything besides wall my snorlax out for the first fifteen turns, eat a knock off or a toxic, then promptly become death fodder afterwards. it's a massive momentum drain and most of what it wants to wall is done better by sableye. drampa is also at an all time high, and it completely cockblocks galarsola from doing anything of note. let it go to nu, it'll probably be helpful for their toxicroak infestation.
this is cool, albeit kinda niche. it's a fast frail choice bander that can pull some shenanigans with memento or sucker punch. probably won't last here, but for the time being it's pretty neat.
i haven't seen torkoal a single time since shifts and frankly, i'm not sure if there's much to see. it should more or less be doing the exact same shit it did during alpha before ou stole it during their venusaur obsession set in. albeit, this time gigalith isn't here to get in its way, so perhaps it can get more done since it doesn't need body press. should be a nice addition to balance teams.
goodbye bitch you were a cancer on our tier, plume meta here we come
torkoal isn't any weaker than the fire fox. I really love to see some variety in sun teams. A defensively bulky spinner is the complete opposite of what ninetales did so you have to build your team differently as well. Great addition.
I do want to argument blastoise being allowed in RU can I do this here?
I do want to argument blastoise being allowed in RU can I do this here?
It's very unlikely Blastoise would stay RU. Shell Smash makes it even more disgustingly powerful than Inteleon, and its bulk gives it multiple oppurtunities to set up and start ripping away at teams.
A floor Mat
The Official Floor Mat of Rarley Used
While i used morpeko and i like Xatu, it was super annoying and im glad to see it gone. HAVE FUN IN UU BIRD
A floor Mat
The Official Floor Mat of Rarley Used
Also corosla being here is cool but its a momentum grandma and when the expansion comes, Pokemon like absol and zoroark are going to shred it literally.
Smogon tiers are based on usage. Blastoise is UU because he gets enough usage there, people would need to stop using him for him to join RU. We do not manually place pokemon in lower tiers.
I've been messing around with Rillaboom quite a bit since it got Grassy Surge, and I just wanted to give my two-cents on the Pokemon and the impact of Grassy Terrain.
I can't speak too much on the viability of sets like SubSeed or bulkier variants, as I've only ever used Band or Scarf thus far. That being said, those two sets feel like an improvement with Grassy Terrain, but honestly not as much as I was expecting (perhaps I just didn't use Rillaboom enough prior). It hits harder, that much is for sure, but it doesn't feel like the gap between the two variants is that big, at least in my experience.
However, that only takes into account Rillaboom in a vacuum. While I haven't gotten too much mileage out of Grassy Terrain for Rillaboom itself, it has done wonders for my teams. It's a godsend for bulky teams, as the Pokemon can stick around for that much longer. The weakened Earthquakes can also come in handy, though it does often mean that you have to run the weaker and inaccurate High Horsepower. Anything from walls like Clefairy or Steelix (who greatly appreciates the weakened Earthquakes) to bulky wallbreakers like Copperajah or Bewear to more out-there partners like Sub-Toxic Salazzle pair extremely well with Grassy Terrain. Really, any and every Pokemon can benefit though with more offensive teams it could end up benefitting your opponent more than you.
As for the offensive potential of Grassy Terrain, I personally find it a bit lackluster. There is a wide range of Grass-types who would love having their STAB boosted, but with how many Fire-types are in the tier, I don't think stacking Grass-types is the best idea. Past that, there aren't too many Pokemon who run Grass-coverage, and for most of them, it doesn't really matter since the main target is Gastrodon who'd die to the move anyways. Unburden Hitmonlee might do something, but I wouldn't put my money on it. I could be horribly wrong and there's some hidden tech that'll turn the meta upside-down, but at the moment I'm not particularly impressed.
In a nutshell, Rillaboom is certainly better but not as much as I would've guessed, and Grassy Terrain is awesome defensively and meh offensively. I doubt any of what I'm saying is revolutionary in any regard, but I just figured I'd put it out there. I'll close off by sharing a team that has been serving me well recently. It wasn't built with Grassy Terrain in mind at first, but it's become such an integral part that I couldn't really imagine it without it.
The team
I can't speak too much on the viability of sets like SubSeed or bulkier variants, as I've only ever used Band or Scarf thus far. That being said, those two sets feel like an improvement with Grassy Terrain, but honestly not as much as I was expecting (perhaps I just didn't use Rillaboom enough prior). It hits harder, that much is for sure, but it doesn't feel like the gap between the two variants is that big, at least in my experience.
However, that only takes into account Rillaboom in a vacuum. While I haven't gotten too much mileage out of Grassy Terrain for Rillaboom itself, it has done wonders for my teams. It's a godsend for bulky teams, as the Pokemon can stick around for that much longer. The weakened Earthquakes can also come in handy, though it does often mean that you have to run the weaker and inaccurate High Horsepower. Anything from walls like Clefairy or Steelix (who greatly appreciates the weakened Earthquakes) to bulky wallbreakers like Copperajah or Bewear to more out-there partners like Sub-Toxic Salazzle pair extremely well with Grassy Terrain. Really, any and every Pokemon can benefit though with more offensive teams it could end up benefitting your opponent more than you.
As for the offensive potential of Grassy Terrain, I personally find it a bit lackluster. There is a wide range of Grass-types who would love having their STAB boosted, but with how many Fire-types are in the tier, I don't think stacking Grass-types is the best idea. Past that, there aren't too many Pokemon who run Grass-coverage, and for most of them, it doesn't really matter since the main target is Gastrodon who'd die to the move anyways. Unburden Hitmonlee might do something, but I wouldn't put my money on it. I could be horribly wrong and there's some hidden tech that'll turn the meta upside-down, but at the moment I'm not particularly impressed.
In a nutshell, Rillaboom is certainly better but not as much as I would've guessed, and Grassy Terrain is awesome defensively and meh offensively. I doubt any of what I'm saying is revolutionary in any regard, but I just figured I'd put it out there. I'll close off by sharing a team that has been serving me well recently. It wasn't built with Grassy Terrain in mind at first, but it's become such an integral part that I couldn't really imagine it without it.
The team
A floor Mat
The Official Floor Mat of Rarley Used
I agree, and im using grassy seed hitmonlee right know and its a complete beast, few pokemon can switch into it and revenge kill it with the boost in defense
The Isle of Armor
Obviously there are mons that I might be rating too highly to be above RU usage and maybe some of these suck ass and drop to like PU, anyway p excited to finally have more building options in the near future.
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Random thoughts:
Mold Breaker Druddigon would've been so helpful against Xatu if that was still here. Still seems like a good Rocker, not sure how it'll stack up with Duraludon though.
Slowking + Tangela cores could be interesting to try out. Slowking also gets Teleport which combos quite well with Regenerator.
Magneton could be a fun wallbreaker with Analytic and Specs. Exploud will be a damn good wallbreaker without Swellow to outclass it. Power de-creep helps out Porygon2 a little bit. Palossand could have a niche as a bulky Rocker.
Klefki will be UU easily I'm sure of it.
Alolan forms for Exeggutor and Marowak could have use here but I'm not too too sure.
Others listed here seem fringe viable at best.
Mold Breaker Druddigon would've been so helpful against Xatu if that was still here. Still seems like a good Rocker, not sure how it'll stack up with Duraludon though.
Slowking + Tangela cores could be interesting to try out. Slowking also gets Teleport which combos quite well with Regenerator.
Magneton could be a fun wallbreaker with Analytic and Specs. Exploud will be a damn good wallbreaker without Swellow to outclass it. Power de-creep helps out Porygon2 a little bit. Palossand could have a niche as a bulky Rocker.
Klefki will be UU easily I'm sure of it.
Alolan forms for Exeggutor and Marowak could have use here but I'm not too too sure.
Others listed here seem fringe viable at best.
Double Post Incoming
https://pokepast.es/98220c35f183ffbe
Here's a list of all the updated moves from the Isle of Armor DLC for all the current ranked pokemon in the RU VR
https://pokepast.es/98220c35f183ffbe
Here's a list of all the updated moves from the Isle of Armor DLC for all the current ranked pokemon in the RU VR
I'm not sure how viable this is, but Wishport Wigglytuff (140 base HP) is apparently a thing now. If ever Wigglytuff had a chance to not be absolute dogshit, now is that moment.
It's frail without investment in defenses and with the diminishing returns on an HP stat that high, even with Wish you'd probably want to invest fully in one defensive stat and divert some EVs from HP into the other.
It's frail without investment in defenses and with the diminishing returns on an HP stat that high, even with Wish you'd probably want to invest fully in one defensive stat and divert some EVs from HP into the other.
quick thoughts cus new additions are cool even if i dont like mons that much
rillaboom grassy glide is like, 150% stronger than scizor bp.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Seed Bomb (70 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Grassy Terrain: 237-280 (69.5 - 82.1%)
this is bad. this is very, very bad.
let's hope exploding force doesn't double in damage like rising voltage does, or else that will be another Big Issue. even if it only gets a boost by 50%, a 120 bp psychic stab with terrain is still pretty ridiculous so i'm not looking forward to bulky resists taking 55% from indeedee.
vapo gets a bootleg wishport now which is pretty cool, but it competes with slots like toxic and ice beam. i wouldn't be surprised if flip turn gets popular but i also don't think it's an autopick; i could be wrong though.
reportedly, wigglytuff has wishport now; that seems pretty cool given the 140 base hp, but wigglytuff also sorely lacks in defensive value so iunno how useful that will truly be.
poltergeist golurk sounds fucking awesome and i cant wait to blast people with huge ass ghost attacks. big wak also has an even stronger move, and dusknoir finally has a usable stab. this move could be a cool addition.
scyther could be neat once it makes its way down here, you've got a 120 bp flying move with basically no drawbacks.
wishiwashi has stab uturn now which is kinda dope ngl. choiced clawitzer has an option to pivot now which will be neat when it likely makes its way down here as well. flip turn basculin could honestly be interesting, adaptability stab base 60 uturns sound quite annoying to deal with outside of like vap or plume.
palossand being able to spread burn with stab sounds so wild that i dont think it will make it past uu tbh, given that they don't have hippo. we'll see, but that sounds kiiiiiinda nuts. claydol also can burn shit now which sounds terminally obnoxious and i really hate that they're trying to make claydol a good pokemon.
i kinda hope we get galarian bro, just cus it seems like a neat mon to play with. it's not super fat like kantobro and doesn't have nearly as good a defensive typing, but you have pretty sick offensive coverage since it still gets basically the same moves, and the bulk to take neutral hits and potentially set up. maybe uu takes it, maybe not - i cant think of anything in particular that uu would need it to wall so iunno.
rillaboom grassy glide is like, 150% stronger than scizor bp.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Seed Bomb (70 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Grassy Terrain: 237-280 (69.5 - 82.1%)
this is bad. this is very, very bad.
let's hope exploding force doesn't double in damage like rising voltage does, or else that will be another Big Issue. even if it only gets a boost by 50%, a 120 bp psychic stab with terrain is still pretty ridiculous so i'm not looking forward to bulky resists taking 55% from indeedee.
vapo gets a bootleg wishport now which is pretty cool, but it competes with slots like toxic and ice beam. i wouldn't be surprised if flip turn gets popular but i also don't think it's an autopick; i could be wrong though.
reportedly, wigglytuff has wishport now; that seems pretty cool given the 140 base hp, but wigglytuff also sorely lacks in defensive value so iunno how useful that will truly be.
poltergeist golurk sounds fucking awesome and i cant wait to blast people with huge ass ghost attacks. big wak also has an even stronger move, and dusknoir finally has a usable stab. this move could be a cool addition.
scyther could be neat once it makes its way down here, you've got a 120 bp flying move with basically no drawbacks.
wishiwashi has stab uturn now which is kinda dope ngl. choiced clawitzer has an option to pivot now which will be neat when it likely makes its way down here as well. flip turn basculin could honestly be interesting, adaptability stab base 60 uturns sound quite annoying to deal with outside of like vap or plume.
palossand being able to spread burn with stab sounds so wild that i dont think it will make it past uu tbh, given that they don't have hippo. we'll see, but that sounds kiiiiiinda nuts. claydol also can burn shit now which sounds terminally obnoxious and i really hate that they're trying to make claydol a good pokemon.
i kinda hope we get galarian bro, just cus it seems like a neat mon to play with. it's not super fat like kantobro and doesn't have nearly as good a defensive typing, but you have pretty sick offensive coverage since it still gets basically the same moves, and the bulk to take neutral hits and potentially set up. maybe uu takes it, maybe not - i cant think of anything in particular that uu would need it to wall so iunno.
Magneton @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Steel Beam
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
Choice Specs Analytic Magneton seems like a fun wallbreaker to play around with right now. Even though it doesn't have the best movepool the raw power it gets on switchins thanks to Analytic means it's often able to chunk or even brute force past resistances with its STAB moves (especially if they aren't immune to Ground-type moves, it basically has the strongest Volt Switches known to man lmao), and it got a new toy in Steel Beam that gives it an absolutely nuclear attack to throw around. Seriously, Specs Analytic Steel Beam is so absurdly powerful that Magneton is basically able to sacrifice itself to get a free KO on one of the opponent's Pokemon. Of course Magnet Pull is a very valuable ability too, but i don't think that Magneton has a very good matchup against most of RU's common Steel-Type picks right now, so for now Choice Specs Analytic is the go to set in my mind.
To show you all how absurdly powerful of a wallbreaker Specs Magneton is, i'm going to include some damage calcs below, seriously, the levels of raw damage output that this thing can achieve are almost comical.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Steelix: 138-162 (38.9 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Steelix: 241-284 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 188 HP / 168+ SpD Snorlax: 214-253 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Steel Beam vs. 188 HP / 168+ SpD Snorlax: 333-393 (65.5 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Mudsdale: 280-331 (69.3 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Mudsdale: 492-579 (121.7 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 288-340 (81.3 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 162-191 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 504-594 (142.3 - 167.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Steelix: 241-284 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 188 HP / 168+ SpD Snorlax: 214-253 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Steel Beam vs. 188 HP / 168+ SpD Snorlax: 333-393 (65.5 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Mudsdale: 280-331 (69.3 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Mudsdale: 492-579 (121.7 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 288-340 (81.3 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 162-191 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 504-594 (142.3 - 167.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also, as a final note, it's kinda gimmicky but Rising Voltage Magneton with Pincurchin support surpasses even these damage calcs. If you want to OHKO Snorlax on the switch with a neutral damage special attack, that's how.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magneton Rising Voltage vs. 188 HP / 168+ SpD Snorlax in Electric Terrain: 433-511 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Wanted to drop some thoughts on some mons that may/will likely drop to us in the coming months and their new moves
Poliwrath: This is probably the biggest win from the updated movepools. Poliwrath has a solid movepool to go with its actually pretty decent typing now, most notably drain punch for it's tank set, but it could also work as a bulky CBer now, able to find ample switch ins and fire off CC and Liquidation. Or even go full gimmick with Belly Drum and reversal which yeah, if you somehow find a team with no priority or scarfer faster than you thats gg. or set up rain manually and don't even worry about scarfers.
Slowbro-galar: I'm not sure if we get this but it's pretty outclassed by regular slowbro and it's stat spread is... odd, so its possible. If we do get it, it's actually a hard counter to virizion since it resists both stabs (4x resist fighting) and neutral to zen headbutt and stone edge. With regenerator its a full stop to grass mons all game and if you run colbur (or no item) you can probably stop fighters too. Like I said us getting this is iffy but I could see it.
Tauros: This mon got a lot of great coverage options. CB Tauros seems like a good all around wallbreaker/cleaner, not much to say, very simple mon but with a good speed tier and power.
Scyther: With technician, scyther gets a recoil-less brave bird that can break subs, and of course it loves HDB for it's u-turn spam. RU seems like it will have strong flipturnswitch cores.
Golurk: This is one of the most hyped mons I've seen and I don't get the hype, ghost stab is strong for it but it's still slow with many common weakness, and requires your team to not take advantage of how spammable knock off is.
Talonflame: Not sure if we get this one but if we do, I like a bulky wincon BU set with HDB and dual wingbeat, basically doing what it did last gen before it was banned
Sharpedo: while very unlikely we get this, if we do, its hands down the best cleaner in the tier, with flip turn now to wear down counters and CC for good coverage with crunch. Protect doesn't even seem required on it (but still very good) since flip turn is so good and competes for the 4th moveslot.
Druddigon gets scale shot but is sadly too slow even at +1, but I'm glad to have our ugly boi back.
Decidueye: this is where poltergeist is actually going to find use in RU. CB deci got a big power boost especially with how few good ghost resists we have and none particularly enjoy CB leaf blade - especially useful since what will likely be the best grass resist in the tier, zard, won't want to give up it's item to stop poltergeist.
Lycanroc-Dusk: up there with poliwrath for best movepool expansion, lycan goes from using brick break and fire fang for coverage to close combat, play rough, and psychic fangs, or use rock blast for sub mons. A huge offensive threat in the tier that is a huge improvement on it's last gen counterpart imo.
Biggest Winners of the DLC from what we already had: Zard and Ninetales easily - scorching sands is such great coverage for opposing fire and rock types, these two are definitely top tier
Biggest Loser: Coalossol
Excited to see what drops we get in two weeks!
Poliwrath: This is probably the biggest win from the updated movepools. Poliwrath has a solid movepool to go with its actually pretty decent typing now, most notably drain punch for it's tank set, but it could also work as a bulky CBer now, able to find ample switch ins and fire off CC and Liquidation. Or even go full gimmick with Belly Drum and reversal which yeah, if you somehow find a team with no priority or scarfer faster than you thats gg. or set up rain manually and don't even worry about scarfers.
Slowbro-galar: I'm not sure if we get this but it's pretty outclassed by regular slowbro and it's stat spread is... odd, so its possible. If we do get it, it's actually a hard counter to virizion since it resists both stabs (4x resist fighting) and neutral to zen headbutt and stone edge. With regenerator its a full stop to grass mons all game and if you run colbur (or no item) you can probably stop fighters too. Like I said us getting this is iffy but I could see it.
Tauros: This mon got a lot of great coverage options. CB Tauros seems like a good all around wallbreaker/cleaner, not much to say, very simple mon but with a good speed tier and power.
Scyther: With technician, scyther gets a recoil-less brave bird that can break subs, and of course it loves HDB for it's u-turn spam. RU seems like it will have strong flipturnswitch cores.
Golurk: This is one of the most hyped mons I've seen and I don't get the hype, ghost stab is strong for it but it's still slow with many common weakness, and requires your team to not take advantage of how spammable knock off is.
Talonflame: Not sure if we get this one but if we do, I like a bulky wincon BU set with HDB and dual wingbeat, basically doing what it did last gen before it was banned
Sharpedo: while very unlikely we get this, if we do, its hands down the best cleaner in the tier, with flip turn now to wear down counters and CC for good coverage with crunch. Protect doesn't even seem required on it (but still very good) since flip turn is so good and competes for the 4th moveslot.
Druddigon gets scale shot but is sadly too slow even at +1, but I'm glad to have our ugly boi back.
Decidueye: this is where poltergeist is actually going to find use in RU. CB deci got a big power boost especially with how few good ghost resists we have and none particularly enjoy CB leaf blade - especially useful since what will likely be the best grass resist in the tier, zard, won't want to give up it's item to stop poltergeist.
Lycanroc-Dusk: up there with poliwrath for best movepool expansion, lycan goes from using brick break and fire fang for coverage to close combat, play rough, and psychic fangs, or use rock blast for sub mons. A huge offensive threat in the tier that is a huge improvement on it's last gen counterpart imo.
Biggest Winners of the DLC from what we already had: Zard and Ninetales easily - scorching sands is such great coverage for opposing fire and rock types, these two are definitely top tier
Biggest Loser: Coalossol
Excited to see what drops we get in two weeks!
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Indeedee (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Trick
+
Raichu-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Expanding Force
- Psyshock
Offensive psychic core to destroy offensive builds, Trick Indeede and Nasty Plot + Psychock Raichu-Alola under Psychic Terrain to cripple and destroy Chansey. Spikes are really appreciated on this core so basically you can wear down some of their best offensive checks as dark types and spd steelix. Indeedee its supposed to be my late game cleaner but also psychic terrain abuser so I can pass dark types with Nasty Plot Raichu-A just to spam in late game Expanding Force with Scarf Indeedee to everything else.
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A couple of marginal thoughts regarding some Tutor moves!
Indeedee was already absolutely amazing as a Pokemon; I feel like nobody is here to debate that. Though, it got something in the Isle of Armor that pushed it from a top threat, to an unfathomably dangerous breaker and cleaner that is only stopped by the obviously absurd Chansey (which I'm fairly certain is on the boulevard of being quickbanned extremely soon): Expanding Force.
Expanding Force is a 80 BP move that is doubled in power when Psychic Terrain is active, and even worse is that it stacks with the 1.3x boost. So, in essence, you get effectively a 208 BP move without factoring in STAB. Indeedee has access to this move, meaning that it doesn't have to set up any terrain manually in order to get this move into full effect. So, Indeedee now has an extremely absurd nuke of a move that even pries apart resistances. That being said, there are only three real switch-ins in the tier, those being the resident Dark types in Sableye, Scrafty, and Drapion, the former two of which are promptly outsped and blown away by Dazzling Gleam. Drapion speed ties with Indeedee and takes Dazzling neutrally, but still isn't a switch-in to Specs Hyper Voice, and it is prone to being worn down due to hazards and its rather solid defensive typing by itself.
That's just Specs. With Scarf, you forego a good margin of strength, but in turn Indeedee turns into a horrific revenge killer. Expanding Force gives Indeedee a new margin of power that lets it clean a lot more effectively, claiming KOs that it otherwise needed chip to obtain.
Don't believe me? Check out these calcs. (Expanding Force isn't in the calc yet, so I'm simulating it with a modified Psychic)
With all of this in mind, Expanding Force turns Indeedee from once a great wallbreaker, into an absolutely devastating one that, once Chansey leaves, I feel has the potential to be overbearing in the tier in a kin similar to Dracovish, potentially forcing Dark immunities to be run simply just to check it.
--
Something a bit more interesting: Scorching Sands Charizard.
For some bizarre reason, Charizard was given Scorching Sands, which gives Charizard a coverage move with a healthy burn chance against the Rock types that otherwise wall it. Not only does this give Charizard even more amazing utility, but it actually gives it a legitimate answer to Rock-type checks such as Rhydon.
(Modified to Scorching Sands's 70 BP)
252 SpA Charizard Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 170-200 (48.4 - 56.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This guaranteed 2HKOs standard offensive Rocks Rhydon after Rock damage, which... is huge. This alone might give it the potential to rise even more in the VR, simply because it has an effective option for almost everything in the tier barring Vaporeon.
--
Speaking of Vaporeon!
Guess who can simulate Wishport Clef? This fish. Vaporeon was given Flip Turn, which gives it the ability to effectively wishport its gargantuan Wishes, as well as pivot on potential Virizion switch-ins. With Flip Turn, Vaporeon now is no longer a momentum sink, and while providing amazing utility, is able to pivot on its checks into a dangerous threat, potentially even passing a game-changing Wish.
I imagine that this will be the tool that Vaporeon's needed to cement itself as a top threat in the tier. While I definitely don't think it'll push it over the brim, it is now able to perform even better on Balance builds, and potentially even more Offensive squads due to its new ability to garner momentum. This is absolutely monumental for it.
Indeedee was already absolutely amazing as a Pokemon; I feel like nobody is here to debate that. Though, it got something in the Isle of Armor that pushed it from a top threat, to an unfathomably dangerous breaker and cleaner that is only stopped by the obviously absurd Chansey (which I'm fairly certain is on the boulevard of being quickbanned extremely soon): Expanding Force.
Expanding Force is a 80 BP move that is doubled in power when Psychic Terrain is active, and even worse is that it stacks with the 1.3x boost. So, in essence, you get effectively a 208 BP move without factoring in STAB. Indeedee has access to this move, meaning that it doesn't have to set up any terrain manually in order to get this move into full effect. So, Indeedee now has an extremely absurd nuke of a move that even pries apart resistances. That being said, there are only three real switch-ins in the tier, those being the resident Dark types in Sableye, Scrafty, and Drapion, the former two of which are promptly outsped and blown away by Dazzling Gleam. Drapion speed ties with Indeedee and takes Dazzling neutrally, but still isn't a switch-in to Specs Hyper Voice, and it is prone to being worn down due to hazards and its rather solid defensive typing by itself.
That's just Specs. With Scarf, you forego a good margin of strength, but in turn Indeedee turns into a horrific revenge killer. Expanding Force gives Indeedee a new margin of power that lets it clean a lot more effectively, claiming KOs that it otherwise needed chip to obtain.
Don't believe me? Check out these calcs. (Expanding Force isn't in the calc yet, so I'm simulating it with a modified Psychic)
252 SpA Indeedee Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard in Psychic Terrain: 333-393 (112.1 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Indeedee Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon in Psychic Terrain: 364-430 (103.7 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Indeedee Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Silvally-Fairy in Psychic Terrain: 339-400 (102.4 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Indeedee Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Duraludon in Psychic Terrain: 252-297 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
This is just Scarfed. Specs, on the other hand...
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Steelix in Psychic Terrain: 228-269 (64.4 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers
recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon in Psychic Terrain: 547-645 (132.1 - 155.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon in Psychic Terrain: 357-421 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Corsola-Galar in Psychic Terrain: 291-343 (89.8 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aromatisse in Psychic Terrain: 481-567 (118.4 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Indeedee Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon in Psychic Terrain: 364-430 (103.7 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Indeedee Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Silvally-Fairy in Psychic Terrain: 339-400 (102.4 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Indeedee Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Duraludon in Psychic Terrain: 252-297 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
This is just Scarfed. Specs, on the other hand...
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Steelix in Psychic Terrain: 228-269 (64.4 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers
recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon in Psychic Terrain: 547-645 (132.1 - 155.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon in Psychic Terrain: 357-421 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Corsola-Galar in Psychic Terrain: 291-343 (89.8 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aromatisse in Psychic Terrain: 481-567 (118.4 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
With all of this in mind, Expanding Force turns Indeedee from once a great wallbreaker, into an absolutely devastating one that, once Chansey leaves, I feel has the potential to be overbearing in the tier in a kin similar to Dracovish, potentially forcing Dark immunities to be run simply just to check it.
--
Something a bit more interesting: Scorching Sands Charizard.
For some bizarre reason, Charizard was given Scorching Sands, which gives Charizard a coverage move with a healthy burn chance against the Rock types that otherwise wall it. Not only does this give Charizard even more amazing utility, but it actually gives it a legitimate answer to Rock-type checks such as Rhydon.
(Modified to Scorching Sands's 70 BP)
252 SpA Charizard Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 170-200 (48.4 - 56.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This guaranteed 2HKOs standard offensive Rocks Rhydon after Rock damage, which... is huge. This alone might give it the potential to rise even more in the VR, simply because it has an effective option for almost everything in the tier barring Vaporeon.
--
Speaking of Vaporeon!
Guess who can simulate Wishport Clef? This fish. Vaporeon was given Flip Turn, which gives it the ability to effectively wishport its gargantuan Wishes, as well as pivot on potential Virizion switch-ins. With Flip Turn, Vaporeon now is no longer a momentum sink, and while providing amazing utility, is able to pivot on its checks into a dangerous threat, potentially even passing a game-changing Wish.
I imagine that this will be the tool that Vaporeon's needed to cement itself as a top threat in the tier. While I definitely don't think it'll push it over the brim, it is now able to perform even better on Balance builds, and potentially even more Offensive squads due to its new ability to garner momentum. This is absolutely monumental for it.
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To hardly anyone's surprise, we held a quick vote on Chansey and we reached a majority in order to ban Chansey from the RU tier. Marty and The Immortal please free us thank you.
reasoning
Chansey is capable of checking every special attacker in the tier and even some physical attackers while supporting its team innumerably with its various support moves including Wish, Heal Bell, and Stealth Rock. Due to how difficult it is to break, games oftentimes focus to an unhealthy degree on beating opposing Chansey. While Chansey is passive, Its ability to make use of Teleport allows it to find use on a variety of teams and also lessens available counterplay. In addition, its access to various status moves allows it to seriously cripple any would-be checks, making its lack of offensive presence only a minor issue. Chansey’s unprecedented defensive and support capabilities make it too much for the RU tier to handle.
Concerning Indeedee, since I got that question ten times in the last hour or something, we're not going to vote on it just yet. The reasoning here is that the only reason to hold a quick vote now would be due to the new move Expanding Force, yet acting based on mechanics that not 100% confirmed is something we want to avoid, especially as we started hearing more from testing that it might not be the boost implemented at the moment.
reasoningChansey is capable of checking every special attacker in the tier and even some physical attackers while supporting its team innumerably with its various support moves including Wish, Heal Bell, and Stealth Rock. Due to how difficult it is to break, games oftentimes focus to an unhealthy degree on beating opposing Chansey. While Chansey is passive, Its ability to make use of Teleport allows it to find use on a variety of teams and also lessens available counterplay. In addition, its access to various status moves allows it to seriously cripple any would-be checks, making its lack of offensive presence only a minor issue. Chansey’s unprecedented defensive and support capabilities make it too much for the RU tier to handle.
Concerning Indeedee, since I got that question ten times in the last hour or something, we're not going to vote on it just yet. The reasoning here is that the only reason to hold a quick vote now would be due to the new move Expanding Force, yet acting based on mechanics that not 100% confirmed is something we want to avoid, especially as we started hearing more from testing that it might not be the boost implemented at the moment.
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Epic DLC post
Ninetales got a new move in Scorching Sands, being able to beat old fire types that would otherwise beat it like Coalossal and Turtonator. Ninetales was alredy an amazing threat, and this will make it even better.
Grassy Slide makes Rillaboom even harder to deal with, being now hard to revengkill with the usual scarfers. Stuff like Salazzle and Charizard are still good and reliable checks, but other than that this mon is just crazy at this point. Abuse it while you can.
If this mon wasnt alredy super good before, i feel like now its gonna be mandatory for every team. Ninetales and RIllaboom are both top tier threats, and being able to check both in one slot while also keeping hazard control its just amazing. Sidenote here, but please dont use Will of Wisp Jellicent, ive seen too many Charizards 1v1ing it because of that. It also got Scorching Sands, which can be cool ig.
Those two finally got an usable ghost stab in Poltergeist. Both can abuse it well with Choice Band, and i can see them being good wallbreakers now. Especially now that Golurk can run both Dynamic Punch and Stone Edge, while Gourgeist has a very strong Power Whip to 2hko most resists and a good priority move in Shadow Sneak, while the typing and decent physdef makes it a decent check to a decent bunch of stuff. Being walled by Drapion and completely stopped by Drampa isnt great, tho.
We all know how stupid Indeedee is now with Expanding Force, wont waste too much time on it.
Talking about Indeedee, this mon counters it pretty well and also helps vs Virizion and Salazzle. Kinda decent but easy to abuse, especially with the low PPs on the recovery.
I've seen people toying with those two, and honestly they arent even that bad. Rising Voltage makes Raichu-Alola even more annoying to deal with, and Spikes from Pincurchin help a lot.
As said above, this lost his niche of checking most of the fire types in the tier while setting up spikes for free. It can check Salazzle, but still a strong lose regardless.
This mon has been dropping pretty hard alredy, but Vileplume, Virizion, Drampa and tons of fire types being around dont really help it. It doesnt really check much in the current meta, its still a decent defogger tho.
Very cool wall that can blanket check pretty much everything and now can Teleport too.
Scyther with Boots and Dual Wingbeat is a very scary threat for the metagame, being able to knock the few steel like Steelix and Copperajah. Its also very fast and has a decent typing, so it can come in and revengkill a lot of stuff.
Didnt test this one much yet, but i cant really see it being unviable. Amazing physdef bulk and Regen make it one of the best blanket check to every Physical Threat, while Knock Off and Sleep Powder are amazing support moves.
This is all i had for now, will try to keep this updated with whatever i test later.
Ninetales got a new move in Scorching Sands, being able to beat old fire types that would otherwise beat it like Coalossal and Turtonator. Ninetales was alredy an amazing threat, and this will make it even better.
Grassy Slide makes Rillaboom even harder to deal with, being now hard to revengkill with the usual scarfers. Stuff like Salazzle and Charizard are still good and reliable checks, but other than that this mon is just crazy at this point. Abuse it while you can.
If this mon wasnt alredy super good before, i feel like now its gonna be mandatory for every team. Ninetales and RIllaboom are both top tier threats, and being able to check both in one slot while also keeping hazard control its just amazing. Sidenote here, but please dont use Will of Wisp Jellicent, ive seen too many Charizards 1v1ing it because of that. It also got Scorching Sands, which can be cool ig.
Those two finally got an usable ghost stab in Poltergeist. Both can abuse it well with Choice Band, and i can see them being good wallbreakers now. Especially now that Golurk can run both Dynamic Punch and Stone Edge, while Gourgeist has a very strong Power Whip to 2hko most resists and a good priority move in Shadow Sneak, while the typing and decent physdef makes it a decent check to a decent bunch of stuff. Being walled by Drapion and completely stopped by Drampa isnt great, tho.
We all know how stupid Indeedee is now with Expanding Force, wont waste too much time on it.
Talking about Indeedee, this mon counters it pretty well and also helps vs Virizion and Salazzle. Kinda decent but easy to abuse, especially with the low PPs on the recovery.
I've seen people toying with those two, and honestly they arent even that bad. Rising Voltage makes Raichu-Alola even more annoying to deal with, and Spikes from Pincurchin help a lot.
As said above, this lost his niche of checking most of the fire types in the tier while setting up spikes for free. It can check Salazzle, but still a strong lose regardless.
This mon has been dropping pretty hard alredy, but Vileplume, Virizion, Drampa and tons of fire types being around dont really help it. It doesnt really check much in the current meta, its still a decent defogger tho.
Very cool wall that can blanket check pretty much everything and now can Teleport too.
Scyther with Boots and Dual Wingbeat is a very scary threat for the metagame, being able to knock the few steel like Steelix and Copperajah. Its also very fast and has a decent typing, so it can come in and revengkill a lot of stuff.
Didnt test this one much yet, but i cant really see it being unviable. Amazing physdef bulk and Regen make it one of the best blanket check to every Physical Threat, while Knock Off and Sleep Powder are amazing support moves.
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I have to say, I think my new favorite mon in the tier is Scyther who fits in perfectly.
I've been experimenting and running a 4 attack set. With U-turn, Knock off, Duel Wingbeats and Quick Attack. And max Att/Spe and it's been doing wonders.
It outspeeds pretty much the entire tier except for like 4 mons. U-turn is very spammable now due to HDB and a stab u-turn coming off 110 attack hurts anythig that switches in. Duel Wingbeat means it can take a big chunk off anything that doesn't resist it and tries to switch in. Especially things like Charizard trying to come in on the u-turn and now being 2hko'd. Knock off is just like the best move in the game. Quick attack gets boosted to 60 power with Technician which while not amazing is good at taking down weakened, trailer mons.
I've been experimenting and running a 4 attack set. With U-turn, Knock off, Duel Wingbeats and Quick Attack. And max Att/Spe and it's been doing wonders.
It outspeeds pretty much the entire tier except for like 4 mons. U-turn is very spammable now due to HDB and a stab u-turn coming off 110 attack hurts anythig that switches in. Duel Wingbeat means it can take a big chunk off anything that doesn't resist it and tries to switch in. Especially things like Charizard trying to come in on the u-turn and now being 2hko'd. Knock off is just like the best move in the game. Quick attack gets boosted to 60 power with Technician which while not amazing is good at taking down weakened, trailer mons.
The pokemon I'm most excited for here is probably slowbro-galar
In my opinion, it will most likely fall to RU because of a lack of viability in OU and UU.
In my mind, I envisioned a calm mind set, something that looks like this.
Slowbro-Galar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shell Side Arm
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
Regenerator is easily g-slowbro's best ability as quick draw is pretty underwhelming and own tempo is very situational.
16 evs in speed so it can outspeed steelix and fire off Flamethrowers for super effective damage.
"0 SpA Slowbro-Galar Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Steelix: 136-160 (38.4 - 45.1%)"
This calc shows that slowbro can catch steelix on the switch and beat it as well.
Flamethrower does massive damage to scyther as well.
But g-slowbro's biggest niche is that it hard counters virizion, which is probably the best mon in the meta.
Virizion's stabs cant even touch this thing and it can fire off super effective stab psychics at will.
It also counters fairies well with shell side-arm.
Very excited for this guy
In my opinion, it will most likely fall to RU because of a lack of viability in OU and UU.
In my mind, I envisioned a calm mind set, something that looks like this.
Slowbro-Galar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shell Side Arm
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
Regenerator is easily g-slowbro's best ability as quick draw is pretty underwhelming and own tempo is very situational.
16 evs in speed so it can outspeed steelix and fire off Flamethrowers for super effective damage.
"0 SpA Slowbro-Galar Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Steelix: 136-160 (38.4 - 45.1%)"
This calc shows that slowbro can catch steelix on the switch and beat it as well.
Flamethrower does massive damage to scyther as well.
But g-slowbro's biggest niche is that it hard counters virizion, which is probably the best mon in the meta.
Virizion's stabs cant even touch this thing and it can fire off super effective stab psychics at will.
It also counters fairies well with shell side-arm.
Very excited for this guy
phantom
Banned deucer.
The RU council just held a quickvote: Indeedee-M is now banned from SS RU.
reasoning
Now that Indeedee has gained Expanding Force, the only Pokémon capable of holding it off are Dark-types. Its power and incredible Speed tier has made it into the single best wallbreaker in the tier. Previous checks such as Snorlax and Steelix are no longer effective due to the raw power of Expanding Force. Due to the fact that Indeedee sets no longer necessitate Psyshock, it can dedicate the rest of its moveslots for coverage options that beat the handful of viable Pokémon immune to Expanding Force. Indeedee also has the option to run Choice Scarf sets, which while not having the same level of power, are a nightmare for offensive teams to deal with, making it a bit unpredictable and even more strenuous for teambuilding. In order to beat Indeedee, teams oftentimes need to dedicate entire cores towards checking it, thus resulting in the meta being heavily warped around its presence. This level of centralization has been deemed far too unhealthy for the tier.
We’ve been getting questions as to when we will be holding another voting slate. After this vote, we don’t plan on voting on anything until after the tier shifts in 10 days. The reason being is that we expect these tier shifts to alter the course of any other votes that take place. As a result, it would be premature for us to commit to voting on anything else when the results would likely be invalidated by the upcoming shifts. We made the exception on Indeedee for several reasons: The first is that we don’t expect enough mons to drop that could potentially make it manageable. The second is that we have several important tournaments going on right now, and for a mon as overbearing as Expanding Force Indeedee, we believe it would be best for the tier’s tournaments if it was removed asap.
tagging Marty and the The Immortal to please ban Indeedee male from the RU ladder. Thank you.
reasoning Now that Indeedee has gained Expanding Force, the only Pokémon capable of holding it off are Dark-types. Its power and incredible Speed tier has made it into the single best wallbreaker in the tier. Previous checks such as Snorlax and Steelix are no longer effective due to the raw power of Expanding Force. Due to the fact that Indeedee sets no longer necessitate Psyshock, it can dedicate the rest of its moveslots for coverage options that beat the handful of viable Pokémon immune to Expanding Force. Indeedee also has the option to run Choice Scarf sets, which while not having the same level of power, are a nightmare for offensive teams to deal with, making it a bit unpredictable and even more strenuous for teambuilding. In order to beat Indeedee, teams oftentimes need to dedicate entire cores towards checking it, thus resulting in the meta being heavily warped around its presence. This level of centralization has been deemed far too unhealthy for the tier.
We’ve been getting questions as to when we will be holding another voting slate. After this vote, we don’t plan on voting on anything until after the tier shifts in 10 days. The reason being is that we expect these tier shifts to alter the course of any other votes that take place. As a result, it would be premature for us to commit to voting on anything else when the results would likely be invalidated by the upcoming shifts. We made the exception on Indeedee for several reasons: The first is that we don’t expect enough mons to drop that could potentially make it manageable. The second is that we have several important tournaments going on right now, and for a mon as overbearing as Expanding Force Indeedee, we believe it would be best for the tier’s tournaments if it was removed asap.
tagging Marty and the The Immortal to please ban Indeedee male from the RU ladder. Thank you.
- Status