Resource SS ZU Viability Rankings - Update @67 [Locked due to DLC 2]

[Toto]

Sorry for the lack of detail in the explanations but just deal with it, I'm doing this post cause I think my nominations are pretty accurate and speak for themselves although if you want more explanations then the previous posts are a great read.

New pokes
:Gourgeist-Large: S Easily best mon in the tier, very versatile with many great sets
A+ Best spinblocker and special wall, useful on spikes staking at stall teams
A+ Best spinner, great movepull and stats
A great stabs and movepull, with many sets ,scarf, specs, and nasty plot 3 attacks
A great ability in competitive, can be used on webs as an offensive threat or on stall with stored power set
A- great ability again with defiant however gets warn down easily by rocks, lo and recoil so can be revenged easily
B+ best rocker, great typing, movepull, abilities and speed stat
B+Great abilities with regenerator and somewhat natural cure. Great defensive stats and can run items other than eviolite
B+ Best unaware user, backbone of stall
B outclassed by corsola
B many other better grass types, still spore, leech seed, strength sap can be annoying

Rises
A- > A great typing, movepull and speed. Just a very good mon that fits well on any team
B- > A- premiere defogger now togetic has gone, also counters gourgeist and stored power gothitelle
B- > B+ Underrated rocker than can take on mackoke, also best tr lead and has magic coat to stop taunt
C > B- walls Mr mime galar and few other popular mons and can spin block. Also got poltergeist
C > B- Best mon with spikes and t-spikes

Drops
A+ > A Pyukumuku's back, lots of priority in current meta, still a threat for unprepared teams
A > A- Better psychics dropped and dusclops popularity isn't good for it either
A- > B Don't know why this is rated highly. Agree with missangelic reasoning but think it should drop lower. Imo B is generous
B+ > B think vullaby is better and being 4x weak to ice is not good right now
B+ > B-There are better spikers out there, weak to ice and many better grass types
B >C Gothitelle just does it better and most good teams have a dark type making duosion useless
B- > C too frail to be a good magic bounce user. If you predict the switch most things just 2hitko
B-> UR Get this thing out of here. No reason to use it ever unless its your favourite mon then go ahead :)

 

[Tuthur]

I won't explain much the nom for the New Pokemon, since they are pretty obvious.
DLC NFEs:
New to B, it is extremely bulky and is our best Wish Passer. It is very good in a lot of balance, even if it dislikes the new hazard heavy meta.
New to C, a nice pivot that kinda struggle in the current meta but has a niche.
New to C, niche defogger that compress a lot of utility but it is too weak to be higher.
New to B+, best Stealth Rock users for very offensive teams (especially Sticky Web) thanks to fast Taunt. It also has the strongest Knock Off in ZU. However, its average bulk prevents it from rising higher.
New to C, less bulky Licki but that provides momentum and has instant recovery.
New to B-, potent pivot that doesn't mind that much the hazard heavy meta thanks to regenerator and can abuse Trubbish's TSpikes thanks to Fake Out.

Drops from PU:
New to S. I don't think I need to explain why it is the best Pokemon in the tier.
New to S. The second best Pokemon in the tier imo, it is very versatile thanks to access to Nasty Plot, Rapid Spin, and Healing Wish. Defensively its checks are limited to Shedinja and Dusclops, while offensively it is limited to priority users, Drakloak, Persian, and TOrb Linoone.
New to A. Very versatile, but it lacks the speed tier and access to Nasty Plot that its Galarian cousin has.
New to A+. Incredible special spong, that fits on everything but HO.
New to A. Brave Bird + Close Combat makes Farfetch'd almost unwallable, while First Impression makes it an incredible threat versus offense, being able to revenge kill everything fast after some chips.
New to A. Gothitelle is excellent. While it faces competition from Oranguru thanks to its Ghost immunity and access to Focus Blast, Gothitelle is super good at keeping hazard on the field with Competitive or Taunt.
New to B. Corsola doesn't make waves. It is weak to what are imo the 5 best Pokemon in the tier (Gourg, Mime G, Closp, Choke and Klang). However, it is a great rocker and chek to stuffs like Persian, Shedinja and Linoone.
New to B+. Stall is viable again, but not enough for A-ranks, at least yet.
New to B. Potent and bulky rocker for bulky offense, however it lacks usefull resistances and invits the dangerous Grass like Gourg and Ivy.
New to A-. Reliable check to Gourg if itemless, Spore is a broken move, and it counters 90% of the Machokes. Great mon.

Old Mon
C to A-. While this can be excessive to rise that much Trubbish, Zugubu dominated their opponent with Trubbish in ZULT and with very potent hazard removal deterent like Dusclops, Shedinja, Farfetch'd, and Gothitelle. Moreover, its one of the few remaining great checks to Machoke since Togetic left, but it also checks the mighty Gourgeist.
C to B+. It hardwalls our 2 Spinners as well as non Shadow Ball Guru, Eiscue, and Whiscash. Thanks to very strong Poltergeist and X-Scissor for Dark-types, it can be very hard to wall it.
B- to A-. The most reliable hazard control atm, but also a great counter to Gourgeist.
B+ to B. Galarian Mime really hurt Screens offensive viability.
A+ to A-. Pyukumuku and Shedinja exist.
A- to B+. Luna faces to much competition as a Psychic-type now.
B+ to B. Without Pincurchin and with Trubbish being extremly popular, Dartrix is a less effective Defoger.
B- to B+. The most reliable check to Farfetch'd, that's also bulky enough to handle some other top tiers physical threats like Machoke and Silvally-Ice, as well as setup sr.
B- to B. Trubbish, Palpitoad, Cufant, and Corsola are some of the most common hazard setters and Natu blocks them all. Moreover stall is viable again thanks to Pyuk and Clops and Natu fits very well in this archetype.
C to B. Like for Trubbish, preventing hazard removal is easier now than it was before, therefore Swirlix offense are much stronger than they were.

 

[Cheezy]

This is a update to my previous post with more placements but they will be very short.

Placements:
B: In my opinion, a lot people have been overrating this. It's typing leaves it weak to many types and it's bulk is very average, but it does have Stealth Rocks, Recover, and Regen.

:Farfetch A-: Very good movepool and ability, and Flying type is a great offensive type, but at the same time it is worn down too easily by Rocks. Knock Off/Brave Bird/Close Combat covers a majority of the metagame and 90 Attack is very good for hitting hard.

A+: Great spinner being able to beat the majority of grass types as well as dishing out good damage. It can outspeed many Pokemon and sweep easily with NP, and it has a very good support movepool as well.

A: Slower than Mr Mime but great nonetheless. It's STAB is unresisted by most Pokemon except Klang and Cufant. Specs hits very hard just like Mime-G. Theres not much to say about it because I covered all of the good parts about it in the Mime-G placement.

B+: All of it's sets are basically outclassed by Mime. No secondary STAB, slower, less Special Attack, and not as good support moves. Cosmic Power is still really good though and it's good at keeping hazards on the field.

Rises:

A- to A: Cufant has just gotten really good throughout ZU so far. It can switch into Farfetchd's Brave Bird, it's resistant to both Mimes STABS, it can deal with Shiinotic, and beat both new Rockers in Palpitoad and Corsola with Power Whip.

UR to C/B-: Grookey can help support a lot of Pokemon right now. Grassy Terrain can help give recovery to Pokemon that don't have it like Gothitelle, Oranguru, the Mimes, and so on. It can also support the best breaker in ZU right now which is Gourgeist-Large, as well as supporting the numerous other Grass types in the tier. Band can also deal quite a lot of damage under Terrain.

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

Noms!

URs

URs
:Gourgeist-L: S: Incredible power and bulk with a ton of variability. CB might see the most usage, and rightfully so; Poltergeist solidifies it as a wallbreaker. Even with CB sets it 1v1s faster attackers with super effective coverage like Persian, the Mimes, and Gastly thanks to its natural bulk and priority. Its hard to say what this things counters really are, as even something like Vullaby or anything itemless to be Poltergeist-proof has to worry about Trick. Not to mention the physdef sets, which are stellar walls in their own right. And there’s even experimental sets with Flame Charge and Weakness Policy, SubSeed sets, you name it. Gourg is easily the meta-dominator at the moment, and is only held back due to its relevant weaknesses and vulnerabilities every set has to face.
A+: Star walling capabilities with a lot of tricks up its sleeve. Passivity isnt its biggest issue now that it can run Poltergeist and / or Shadow Sneak to beat the Mimes and Gourgeist if it really wanted. Even with a Knock Off weakness, when it loses its item it still is super bulky, and has the upside of being immune to Poltergeist then. Regardless, Dusclops at its best is a wall thays a staple for stall and bulkier teams, and is undoubtedly top tier.
A+: One of the best general walls thanks to its passable all-around bulk and Regenerator + Recover. Having a Normal resistance is also great, and being one of the few walls that can run Rocky Helmet and not Eviolite is awesome for punishing Persian, Silvally-Ice, and Klang. It also fits nearly everywhere as a bulky Stealth Rock user, and status with Scald and Toxic is always punishing. Theres a decent amount of variability in coverage and spreads that I believe can be tweaked and explored too; special def with Power Gem / Stone Edge to 2HKO Galarian Mime? Why not! Can’t get enough of this mon, just wish it didn’t have such a weakpoint to the ever-relevant Grass. At least there aren’t any offensive Electric types to worry about!
A+: I had first thought this would be absolutely broken due to its coverage and Speed tier alone, but the meta’s adaptation of more priority-based attackers and relevant walls like Dusclops and Bronzor have somewhat put it in check. Still awesome for its coverage that will always keep you guessing, especially when it can run Rapid Spin and Nasty Plot to boost it. Sometimes they’re together in the same set, and even that’s dangerous. Super centralizing nonetheless, never forget about this mon when teambuilding.

A: Not as much utility as its Galarian form, but Fairy as a subtype rocks. It’s also a tad stronger, and finds itself using Choice Specs and Scarf sets more than Nasty Plot or the like. That’s totally fine cause it’s great at these roles, and is one of the best fully-evolved special attackers to support in this fashion. Another reason it isn’t on par with its other form is that it’s frailer physically and vulnerable to hazards, which makes it easier to pick off in a priority-dominate meta.

A: We last left Pyukumuku at A-, so this could be seen as a rise of sorts. I believe it’s justified due to the need of a general Unaware wall that stall benefits from, and stall got tons better with Dusclops, Corsola, Gourg, Shiinotic, and all the new NFE walls to choose from. It virtually has one weakness as offensive Electric types don’t exist and Electric coverage is somewhat rare; you’re more likely to run into Freeze Dry if anything. This rise is dual parts justified with me believing stall is better and that there are great mons that need Pyukumuku’s Unaware as a backbone to support them against sweepers and some setup-based stallbreakers late game.

A-: Shii probably had a better chance to shine if there wasn’t so many viable Grass-types already, but that’s not saying there isn’t room for it to be worthwhile. Strength Sap and Spore are still two great status moves to abuse, and like Corsola, a wall being able to hold an item like Rocky Helmet is a blessing in this meta. This is compounded by its ability Effect Spore for some cheeky status fishing when switching in on Fake Out and U-turn from Persian and Mienfoo, but there’s something missing about it. Gourg essentially is the better wall unless the team really can’f afford another Ghost- and Dark-type weakness, as the reality is Gourg walls much of the same mons like Machoke, Persian, and Ground-types. It gains an edge against Darks like Scraggy and Krokorok, but then loses an edge against Cufant and Klang. All in all it’s a decent sidegrade to Gourg defensively but is no where near Gourg offensively with its Choice Specs set, which isn’t too worthwhile in the first place.
A-: Surprisingly good? This mon somewhat fits into the mantra I preached earlier that ZU is a priority meta, and having First Impression is a blessing for fetch. It’s also a strong Brave Bird user for all the Grass-types, but is sadly slower than Gourg and ties with Ivysaur. There’s also a slight 4mss situation where it love to fit Roost, Leaf Blade, Defog, Swords Dance, Close Combat, Knock Off, and even Quick Attack but it obviously can’t fit it all and you’ll need to work around its short comings. That said, those shortcomings aren’t too hard to patch, and there’s a lot to get out of this lil birb.

B+: While really strong, it’s still only a mono-Psychic type. Even its defensive boosting sets kinda have competition with Duosion, while anything offensive has the Mimes to compete with. With Nasty Plot, this thing is virtually Oranguru but a little bit faster, a little bit stronger, and access to Competitive so it has a niche on hyper hazards / webs. Again though the competition with better Psychics and even Oranguru’s Ghost immunity makes it short of the A ranks imo, unless I’m really missing the hype of its niche on hyper hazards / webs.
B+: Not much more to say about this mon other than that it’s an expendable Stealth Rock user that can beat most other Stealth Rock setters. Scald and Earth Power hits almost every setter for super effective damage, while nailing a Jigglypuff with Toxic is also satisfying. It can be kept around to check Wartortle or Toxic a wall like Pyuk if needed, but without recovery and no stand-out stats it’s somewhat pigeonholed into the B ranks.
B+: Tested out this mon a lot and it’s been a pleasure to use! Strong Water / Ice coverage for its Choice Specs set is awesome, and Flip Turn to pivot when predicting switches is also satisfying. Its pretty strong, with not much liking to come into a specs Hydro Pump or super effective Ice Beam, and even has noticeable defense despite being without an Eviolite. It works best on VoltTurn teams where it doubles as the team’s punisher and an additional pivot, and will need the support of faster pivots like Persian and Galarian Linoone so it isn’t revenge killed so easily by faster threats. It also competes with a few better Water-types while only being mono-Water itself.
B: It’s actually okay as Togetic replacement that instead of clearing hazards sets them. Can wall some special attackers but not the strongest of like Octilerry nor Nasty Plot Goth / Mimes, but at least can get its hazard up and chip with Seismic Toss.

:lickitoung: B: Decent special wall with a great utility movepool. Again another stall option worth entertaining, and with Oblivious it has the added bonus of not immediately falling to Taunt Galarian Linoone nor Torracat. Still a tad bit passive with a weak Knock Off and Seismic Toss, not to mention the inability to fit all the support it wants due to its recovery, Wish and Protect, requiring two move slots.

B-: not impressed by this mon, and it even competes as a lead rocker with Onix and Dwebble. I think it’s okay due to STAB Knock Off being legit, but nothing to write home about.
B-: Probably a brave post to have this above C but Stunky’s typing alone solidifies it as relevant. Dark/Poison is incredibly anti-meta, giving it switch-ins to all the relevant Ghost- and Psychic-types so that it can Crunch and Sucker Punch them. With Taunt and Aftermath, walls and physical attackers can always be inconvenienced, and Stunky never goes wasted. You can squeeze the last bit of utility out of it with Defog, Toxic, or Play Rough as well to round it out. The biggest downside is its stats, being a whole league down then everything else worth mentioning.
C: Sturdy with dual hazards is cool. Hazards are just awesome in general here and being able to set 2 from the get go can be worthwhile when it works. Also beats down Natu with Stone Edge and Knock Off, with Knock also being good if you decided removing Machoke’s Eviolite was more important than a layer of Spikes.

Rises / Drops

Rises:
B+ to A-: One of the most relevant stallbreakers that has a really good defensive typing. It also has enough natural bulk to check HO threats like Wartortle, and if anything is is an overdue rise.



B- to B+: Stopping hazards from getting up while pivoting with Teleport is huge. It also shutdowns most stall as it offers a free way to pivot into wallbreakers / stallbreakers safely. Passive hazard setters like Hippo, Palpi, and even Trubbish fail to beat it if invested correctly. Its typing and lackluster can be underwhelming but that’s the trade off for awesome MUs against the defensive meta.



C to B+: It walls the Mimes and threatens back with Gyro, and still has Toxic and Stealth Rock for utility. As a specially defensive wall its a Klang without pivoting or the general firepower, but it still scares enough to warrant it a serious niche.



C to B+: Lot of hype for this mon as the new premier Tspikes user. Giving it a conservative rise and waiting to see if it is actually top-tier worthy.



:shedninja: C to B: It’s working now more than ever but there is a lot stipulations on this mon. So high-risk, high-reward when playing with it, but players found ways to support it to moderate success.



C to B-: Doesn’t have the defensive integrity that Charja offers, but is a better suicide lead with its speed and Misty Explosion. I consider webs to be average so I don’t feel as if this should be higher.





Drops:



A+ to A: While its true there’s better special attackers and physical walls that can deal with it, Eiscue is still one of the most worthwhile sweepers to support due to how immediately fast and strong it gets instantly when setting up against physical attackers.



A to A-: Competing with better Psychic-types and stallbreakers, I don’t think Oranguru is A worthy in the current meta.



A- to B+: Its sets are running into trouble with better wallbreakers or sweepers. The huge amount of Water- and Grass-type walls really isn’t helping it beyond its SubToxic set, which then now struggles with the rise of Bronzor.



C to UR: Better web users for either defensive merit or momentum. No need.

 

[czim]

tiny post since most of the needed noms were already made

UR->B- Our best offensive Electric-type that also doubles as a good way to trap and severely damage (or remove) Steel-types like Klang and Cufant. Klang without Volt Switch is removed easily by Magnemite, which is appreciated by mons like Eiscue, Icevally and Mr.Mime-Galar. Cufant has more outs like Whirlwind or High Horsepower but the chip damage is nice. Magnemite's STAB combination is also pretty hard to switch into outside of Palpitoad.

Some calcs and replays to back it up

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1146212160
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1146202903
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Klang: 105-124 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- 97.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Thunderbolt vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Cufant: 229-270 (67.9 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Cufant: 142-168 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnemite Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 306-360 (84 - 98.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

UR->B- Don't forget this little guy please, good bulky attacker that has an unique typing combination that gives it Key Resistances to Ice, Water, Fighting and Dark, checking stuff like Machoke, Beartic, non-Zen Headbutt Eiscue, Scraggy and Hakamo-o and can sweep with Belly Drum while having a pretty good attacking movepool including Aqua Jet and Knock Off. It also has been seeing some defensive usage with Sap Sipper which should be noted. Overall isn't as good as it was before the July shifts (unfortunately) but deserves to be ranked.

UR->C Alternative rocker to Hippo that can be sacked to avoid Spin vs the likes of Mr.Mime and Wartortle. The shifts weren't very kind to it though with the loss of Silvally-Rock and Pincurchin and the 80 grass, ice and water types we got.

UR->C Similarly to Sandygast, Slowpoke was a mon that was very good in the DLC meta until the July shifts came out. Slowpoke is still viable though as a physical wall with slow Teleport and access to Trick Room+Teleport for dedicated teams.

 

[5gen]

I'll be locking this some time on Thursday and then council will begin voting after that. Be sure to get your noms in before Thursday (probs evening EST).

 

[Apagogie]

Silvally-Ice A- -> A
Our only vally remaining. Despite of the fact SD variants struggle a bit against Corsola, Pyukumuku and also Klang which is really common right now, Mixed/Special Vally is a nice balance breakers against bulky teams and is a new figure of the ice spam with Galarian Mime. It also works effectively in voltturn core with Persian or Galarian Linoone to pivot around bulkier builds. It's generally as the same level as Persian and Galarian Linoone (which should be A for the latter) and is better than mons like Whiscash or Lunatone

Solrock B- -> A-
I will go until A-. Big jump but it's the best Farfetch'd answer in the tier right now and also one of the most effective mon against Machoke. It's also able to beat SD Silvally-Ice consistently and provides therefore a good compression for balance team in being a reliable stealth rocker. It stays a bit weaker against Galarian Linoone and Persian compared to other stealth rockers but except Corsola and maybe Sudowoodo, none of them really appreciate switching into them so A- doesn't look exaggerated.


Cufant A- -> B
Cufant lost a ton of utility with the departure of most of our Vally. It doesn't switch in well against our top tiers/new mons such as Band/LO Gourgeist-Large, Machoke, FB Galarian Mime, regular specs Mime and Close combat Farfetch'd. It suffers as well from a huge competition between our rockers which are more than ten currently. As an example, Corsola punishes more effectively physical attackers such as SD Vally-Ice, Persian and Galarian Linoone thanks to Rocky Helmet and has a better longevity with recover + regenerator. It is weak to new trends such as mixed/special Vally-Ice or answers mons which see a decrease in viability like Eiscue, making it globally less useful. If Cufant is still viable to play a cheap klang with rocks or a more offensive variant, it is not anymore a face of the metagame and a drop in B reflects more its viability in the current metagame.

Gloom A- -> B
Its weakness to Ice spam, psychic types and its unability, unlike Ivysaur, to pressure Dusclops/Klang make Gloom less interesting to play right now. It stays a correct switch in to Machoke able to remove toxic spikes but outside of this aspect, its passivity makes it undesirable against bulky builds which are on the rise.


Onix B -> B-
With the emergence of stall/bulky builds, HO is slightly less effective than it used to be. A drop in B- will represent better its place in the metagame.

Mudbray B- -> C+/C
Outside of the klang match up, you don't really want to have a ground type stealth rocker currently due to Gourgeist-Large and ice types dominating the tier. It's able to answer only few physical mons like linoone or persian but always at the cost of its item and isn't impressive versus the rest of the tier. It's crazy how we have only a tiny pool of physical attackers right now. Also, the fact that we gained sandygast and krokorok doesn't help mudbray either. It suffers as well from competition of hippo which has a reliable recovery and sand stream to kill immediately shedinja. Mudbray stays good against klang and some rockers but doesn't deal with anything notable except that.

Skorupi C -> Unranked
Sorry Ho3n, I just think the utility of Skorupi right now is pretty limited. Trubbish and Koffing are better users of t-spikes for bulkier teams and in offense, the ability of venipede to set up both spikes and t-spikes offers a more reliable match up, especially against teams with a t-spikes absorber. The utility of knock off + toxic spikes is not enough in my opinion to keep skorupi in the VR.

Delibird C -> Unranked
It has been barely viable until here and its suicid lead set which is really the only thing it can do hasn't been used seriously in any kind of team except with the purpose to play delibird. The spinblockers and Galarian Mime in spinner for offenses don't help either but even without that, delibird is just really bad and doesn't deserve to be ranked.

EDIT :

Klang A -> A+
If it's not too late, I would like to have at least the rank of Klang discussed. Klang is a blanket switch in to half of the tier similairly than dusclops, I just don't think it's as the same level as persian but at step above. Sets with SG, rest toxic or even some dark specs sets allow klang to be one of the hardest mon to break in the tier but also one of the most versatile. It's one of our five best mon in the tier right now.

 

[5gen]

Hey all, here's the second VR update of the generation. The tier shifts had a tremendous impact so this is a particularly large update. As always, here is the sheet (czim is voting as a rotational member). Also, in the case of ties we use the status quo or the nearest drop/rise (i.e Krokorok and Natu both had votes 3 B+, 2 B, 1 B- , averaged out to B).

New Pokemon

Corsola ranked at A-
Dusclops ranked at A+
Dwebble ranked at C
Farfetch'd ranked at B+
Fletchinder ranked at C
Gothitelle ranked at A-
Gourgeist-Large ranked at S
Jigglypuff ranked at C
Krokorok ranked at B
Lickitung ranked at B
Magnemite ranked at C
Marill ranked at C
Mienfoo ranked at B-
Mr. Mime ranked at A
Mr. Mime-Galar ranked at A+
Palpitoad ranked at B
Pyukumuku ranked at A-
Sandygast ranked at C
Seadra ranked at C
Shiinotic ranked at B
Slowpoke ranked at C

Rises

Bronzor C to B-
Ivysaur B+ to A-
Klang A to A+
Linoone-G A- to A
Natu B- to B
Shedinja C to B
Solrock B- to B+
Stunky UR to C
Trubbish C to B
Vullaby B- to A-

Drops

Cherrim C to UR
Cufant A- to B+
Delibird C to UR
Dottler C to UR
Eiscue A+ to A-
Gastly B to B-
Gloom A- to B+
Hakamo-o B to B-
Lunatone A- to B+
Maractus B+ to B
Morgrem B+ to B-
Mudbray B to C
Onix B to B-
Oranguru A to A-
Pupitar C to UR
Scraggy B to B-
Skorupi C to UR
Wartortle A+ to A-
Whiscash A- to B+

 

[Spacial]

C --> UR
As sad as I am to say this, Sliggoo just sucks right now. It's a special wall that loses to the most common special wallbreakers right now (both Mr. Mimes, Nasty Plot Gothitelle, etc), and its physical fragility makes it easy for most conventional physical attackers to break through it as well. To make matters even worse, Ice-types are incredibly common, which heavily diminishes whatever defensive utility Sliggoo could potentially offer to a team. As for attacking sets, just use any other good special attacker lol

 

[5gen]

Locking this due to massive tier shifts

 

[5gen]

Hello all. With the quick ban slate over and two weeks into this meta, the viability rankings need an overhaul. ZU has a practically new metagame, so the plan is to create a viability rankings version 2. As such, any and all nominations must be made in this thread in order to be included in the next slate.

Due to tier shifts being roughly two weeks away, here is how the VR update will be scheduled:

August 17th to 23rd: Period to make nominations. The VR will be locked late Sunday night gmt -4.
August 24th to 31st: Period for council to discuss and vote. Update is scheduled to happen before the tier shifts do.

Just a personally note (I don't speak for council here), it isn't ideal to have such a potentially big update right before shifts given the risk ZU's meta may heavily change, but I feel it is better than sticking to a viability list for the next three weeks to a month. Reminder to avoid posting one-liners and derailing the thread.

Edit: VR will be fleshed out with sub ranks

 

[My Gender is Egg]

As nobody has made any nominations yet lemme say some things, these are my first nominations so sorry if I'm doing something wrong.
Dedenne: New -> B-/C+: While we used to consider it a joke Dedenne has been surprisingly solid at the moment, specially due to the fact that fairy stab currently is incredibly spammable and pairs well with Volt Switch and allows it to differentiate itself from Raichu for being able to reliably hit Pokemon that pose a threat to things such as Fraxure (even resisting all of its moves bar Poison Jab),Gourgeist and Vibrava with a great STAB Dazzling Gleam and from Emolga by having a slightly better typing, higher special attack and not being forced to bring HDB. It also can be paired with Raichu since it is able to wear down it's checks making it easier to Raichu sweep. Of course while being slightly bulkier than Emolga and Pikachu it has almost non-existent bulk, it still is walled by Ivysaur and Gloom and it's damage can be lacking sometimes.
Dedenne @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pickup
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot/Toxic
I felt that SubRecycle was way too cheesy of a set and decided to go Choice Specs to hit hard right of the bat, stabs are self explanatory and the last moveslot is filler since you really don't need to use it.
A -> B/B-: The cat is in a tough spot at the moment, Pikachu giving it insane competition, the Speed Tier rising so that it is not recommendedto run Adamant anymore and the 2 new rock types are all a problem for it, Stonjourner and Carkol make it good to run Water Pulse, which it needs LO in order to be able to clumsy beat them, combined with the new hazard options and stuff like Flame Body and Rocky Helmet make it extremely easy to wear down.
B+ -> A- Meteor Beam is seriously underrated on this Pokemon, It is a potent win-con that is not stopped by Pijachu at all and while CB Fraxure and Sucker Punch/Bulky Trevenant are problems to it most of the other new shifts are exploitable by it or indirectly helped Lunatone, specially with the lower usage of Dusclops+Pyukumuku cores and more checks to Gourgeist such as Vespiqueen and Carkol. And it's definitely not frail, being able to serve as a soft check to Swoobat without Giga Drain and other useful resistances to Psychic, Normal and Flying.
Lunatone @ Power Herb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rock Polish
- Meteor Beam
- Power Gem
- Psychic
Ice Beam can also be run for Vibrava and Bulky Grasses not weak to Psychic such as Shiinotic.

 

[Splebel]

New -> B+/A-

Vespiquen has always had bad luck. A defensive pokemon with x4 weakness to stealth rocks? Yeah good luck. But with the inclusion of HDB in gen 8 and ignoring the logistics of it even wearing them since vespiquen has no feet vespiquen can finally do what it was meant to do, being a wall/support. Vespiquen is very tanky and usually take hits very well and even some that it is weak to, barring rock of course. It is one of best users of heal bell/aromatherapy in this tier and with it's plethora of support moves it can fill a variety of roles. Defog allows it to remove hazards, tspikes allows it to set up entry hazards, u-turn for a slow pivot, and it's both attacking stats aren't bad and it can go offensive if it wants to.

That being said there are some downsides, one is it's heavy reliance on hdb. If it loses that then it becomes way harder for it to switch in if Stealth rocks are up. x4 weak to rock is also not good since stonjourner is running around and will just delete it. Ice, Electric, and to a lesser extent Flying, and to an even lesser extent fire weaknesses do not help it either. This seriously holds it back from being A tier in my eyes but I can still see it making it to A-. It's existence has caused some pokemon to run rock moves that don't normally run them maybe. Either that or it's 'cause of Swoobat.

New -> S or whatever the highest is

Swoobat is very contentious. Some think it's ban worthy, others do not. Both sides can agree though that this thing is good. It is similar to Gothitelle and Duosion in that it likes to setup boosts and sweep. What makes it different from both of those is that it has the second highest speed in the tier and the ability simple that allows it to boost faster. It has a variety of sets that revolve around boosting and if a team is unprepared for it then they will get destroyed. It is not without it's flaws though.

Swoobat's best set is usually considered it's grassy seed set, that set requires you to use Grookey or another pokemon that knows grassy terrain and so it can make teambuilding for it quite limited. More general sets have to contend with it's subpar defense that leaves it open to attacks from physical priority users like Pikachu, Persian, and Sudowoodo. Sucker punch destroys general Swoobats if they do not run sub. Also it's reliance on stored power makes pokemon that are immune or resist psychic to be decent switch ins. Steels, basically Klang, do need to watch out for heatwave while darktypes like Zweilous need to watch for airslash. Swoobat also needs to watch for scarf users like Stonjourner, and Raichu but both have trouble with gseed varients. Scarf Glalie with Frost Breath is probably the most consistent answer to gseed swoobat that isn't another Swoobat in my opinion. However because when making teams you need to be constantly thinking "how am I going to deal with Swoobat?" amd the asnwer is a very select group of things It's not enough to put a dent in Swoobat's viability.

 

[Toto]

Here are my thoughts on the new drops (well at least the high tier mons)

S - Both mons are banwothy imo, they both limit teambuilding extremely and make the meta not fun to play. I've ranted enough about these two so don't have much more to add. I know every tier has to have mons that are the best but these two just aren't it.
Stonjourner
Swoobat

A+
Pikachu is a healthy addition the the tier giving the tier a great revenge killer, wallbrecker and mixed attacker. However pika has flaws and it has many more counters than the s tier mons and is super frail so has a hard time switching in.

A
Beheeyem is a powerful wallbreaker thanks to its huge base Special Attack stat with analytic ontop of that. Beheeyem can run many sets such as specs ,nasty plot, future sight and even trick room. It hasnt seen much usage due to mushurna but it is a very solid mon.
Fraxure is another excellent walbrecker this time thanks to its great base 117 attack stat with again a great ability in mold breaker. Like Beheeyem this mon has a varirty of sets to run such as banned, regular 4 attacks, dragon dance and swords dance+scale shot.
Grapploct again has a massive attack stat but this time its not really a wallbrecker. Grapploct can function as a great wincon on balance with either a bulk up set or power up punch+av and semi-reliable recovery with drain punch
Vespiqueen is a great defogger thanks to heavy duty boots preventing its 4x rocks weakness and great bulk. It is also a great natural check to Bellossom and having a slow u turn is great for pivoting.

A-
Bellossom looks great on paper with quiver dance+ sap sipper with a solid stat distribution but its doesnt live up to it potential right now in the meta. It gets walled by many common mons like vespiqueen, ivysuar and klang without them even trying to counter bellossom.
Raichu has a great movepull and speed tier and is a very solid mon. I personally haven't used it much so dont have much to say. Shame it dropped with pika as its overshadowed

B+
Carkol
Leafeon
Stoutland
Trevenant

B
Dedenne
dunsparce
Seaking
Togetic
Vibrava
Whirlipede
B-
Emolga
Lopunny

 

[CashKP]

Alright time to do some VR stuff for the new mons as well. Just ranking things I have currently tested enough

S
- Very annoying to play against because one slight mistake or misread on the set can cost you the game. We have very limited answers and because terrain is such a strong archetype on it's own it can be difficult to keep your answers healthy. I actually agree with no quickban but I would like a suspect.

- Stonj is just extremely easy to slam on every team. Hits very hard and has a lot of coverage moves. On top of that it has some utility in being able to set rocks and even use eject pack (as seen in ZUPL). Overall I think Stonj is a pretty easy S and never makes your team worse.

A+
- Very strong with light ball + coverage. Good utility with Knock Off and has nice momentum gain with Volt Switch. Priority spam is also really good and things that resist/are immune to prio dont like getting hit by Knock. Only draw back is it dies to just about every move and can easily get chipped by Hazards + Rocky Helmet

- Vespi feels insane. Bulk + recovery in roost. Great utility in defog + toxic spikes paired with a nice slow U-Turn. Very easy to build with and around and Tspikes are very good right now. Drawbacks are very weak to Knock Off and gets very pressured by Stonj which are everywhere

A
- Extremely dangerous and I think slightly under utilized. Has good set up options with Swords Dance/Dragon Dance combined with scale shot. Also every powerful with band but sometime hates being locked into a move. Has very good coverage options like Superpower and Poison Jab to hit some of the Dragon answers.

- Assault Vest and Band are both good. Has enough coverage to hit basically everything pretty hard. Gets priority in sucker punch as well. Feels very oppressive some games and has options to break or clean. Even options like Octolock are unexplored.

- Not bad as a scarfer but better with Nasty Plot. Has coverage in Surf/Grass Knot/Focus Blast to kill common electric switch ins. Very good base speed + Nasty Plot power boost can just wipe teams. But it's pretty frail and gets killed by a lot of prio or chip

A-
- This is on the boarder of A-/A for me. Very strong with multiple sets but hard to get in a lot of times + lots of people running swoo answers that also deal with this.

B+
- Needs basically perfect conditions to win and super bad vs Klang with is common. But can be very annoying to deal with if you can get it in the right spot

- Just a lot of good utility. Rocks + Spikes + Rapid spin + Flame Body. Just gets worn down so fast over the course of the game

- Just another terrain abuser. Band crushes everything but you need to predict well to not give free turns

B




B-

 

[OranBerryBlissey10]

New to A Trevenant has the toughest of competition in Gourgeist, but should be considered a sidegrade instead of a downgrade. They boast the same typing and have similar movepools, with Trevenant having slightly better coverage. Their stats are mostly samey or don't matter much, except for their attack and defense: Gourgeist has a lot more defense while Trevenant has significantly more attack. This allows Gourgeist to switch in easier and makes it harder to revengekill. However, Trevenant's more offensive nature is preferable in Grassy Terrain teams, which is the best kind of team rn imo due to Swoobat. Grassy Glide is an amazing new move and because of the priority, having a higher attack stat is more valuable over higher defense. Its excellent coverage in Rock Slide and Drain Punch can allow it to circumvent its checks like Vullaby or Zweilous. Trevenant has had an excellent showing in zupl so far as well and deserves a spot in the A ranks.

New to B+ Carkol provides hazards, hazard control, solid stats, and has a punishing ability which is great against pivoting and Fake Out users as well as be a solid check to Gourgeist, Trevenant, Leafeon, Grookey, Torracat, Lampent etc.

A to B- Completely agree with Egg here. Its damage output is too low, it fails to actually succeed in its job as speed control in some cases, Pikachu is a better priority/knock/pivot user most of the time, and it gets screwed over by RH users, Carkol and ghosts, all of which aren't uncommon.

Wanted to do more noms, but ig I'll have to wait until after the thread lock is gone.

 

[5gen]

Hey all, the VR update is finally done. Because the viability list was more recent and accurate than the viability rankings, we decided to put the whole viability list in a sheet and vote on everything. Keep in mind that this update is for the August metagame before tier shifts took place and before Swoobat was banned. Also, all ties were discussed internally and on the ties we could not get a majority vote on, we averaged votes out.

Here is the voting sheet. It has reasoning from each council member.

Changes

High
Beheeyem --> A-
Bellossom --> B+
Dusclops --> A-
Fraxure --> A-
Gourgeist-Large --> A+
Grapploct --> A
Hippopotas --> A
Klang --> A+
Linoone-G --> B+
Mr. Mime --> A-
Mr. Mime-Galar --> A
Persian --> B+
Pikachu --> A
Raichu --> A
Shiinotic --> B+
Silvally-Ice --> A-
Stonjourner --> S
Vespiquen --> A
Vullaby --> A

Mid
Carkol --> B+
Charjabug --> B
Corsola --> B
Dedenne --> C+
Dunsparce --> B-
Glalie --> B+
Gothitelle --> A-
Grookey --> A
Ivysaur --> B+
Krokorok --> B-
Lunatone --> B+
Machoke --> B+
Morgrem --> B
Oranguru --> B
Palpitoad --> A-
Pyukumuku --> B
Seaking --> B
Shedinja --> C
Solrock --> B-
Stoutland --> B
Togetic --> C+
Trevenant --> A
Vibrava --> B-
Wartortle --> B+
Whiscash --> B+
Zweilous --> A-

Low
Beartic --> B-
Bronzor --> B-
Cufant --> C
Dartrix --> C
Drakloak --> C
Duosion --> C-
Eiscue --> C+
Emolga --> B
:farfetch Farfetch'd --> C
Gastly --> C
Gloom --> C+
Greedent --> C-
Hakamo-o --> C+
Lampent --> B-
Lickitung --> C-
Lopunny --> C-
Maractus --> C
Marill --> C
Mudbray --> C+
Munchlax --> C
Natu --> C+
Octillery --> C+
Onix --> UR
Sandygast --> UR
Scraggy --> C-
Seadra --> C
Sliggoo --> C
Slowpoke --> UR
Stunky --> C-
Sudowoodo --> C-
Swirlix --> C
Torracat --> C
Trubbish --> C
Vulpix-Alola --> B-
Whirlipede --> C+

 

[fart goblin]

I'm new to this whole nomming thing but I think a mon that should at least be given a chance is Shellos.

Shellos is a lot like its evolution Gastrodon, being bulky water types that can recover and spread status. While Shellos obviously has lower defensive stats than its evo, when paired with Eviolite it's shockingly bulky, even more than its evolution! (I've calc'd; it's not *much* more bulky, only taking a few bit less percent from, say, a Banded Fraxure Outrage, but for a LC mon that's amazing)
Shellos also gets access to some great support moves, like Toxic, Recover and Clear Smog (no Stealth Rock, sadly, if it had it I'd be more positive). It also gets some nice offensive moves like Scald and Earth Power. Its typing is also good defensively, being mono water and only weak to Grass and Electric.
While normally near-useless, one of its abilities (Sticky Hold) lets it prevent its Eviolite being knocked off. This is fantastic and allows it to stay bulky the whole game as well as weakening Knock Off.

However, it's not without its flaws. It lacks the Ground type of its evolution, meaning it is slightly worse defensively and loses an immunity to Electric. Not having passive recovery also sucks since it's worn down a bit easily. The weakness to Grass especially hurts considering how common it is in the tier with prominent threats like Gourgeist-Large and Trevenant. Still, its other traits make up for these short comings.

Because of these advantageous traits, I'd say it deserves a rating of at least C+. It's a good old fashioned bulky Water-type, and in a tier lacking in those it's quite welcome. It also walls common physical threats like Stonjourner, Hippopotas (not quite a physical attacker but dies to Scald anyway lol), and Silvally-Ice. However, its weakness to Grass and Electric (which are pretty common) and mediocre special bulk keep it from being truly fantastic.

 

[AllTerrainVen0moth]

heres my nom
C -> UR
We have hattrem now, come on

 

[5gen]

I'm new to this whole nomming thing but I think a mon that should at least be given a chance is Shellos.

Shellos is a lot like its evolution Gastrodon, being bulky water types that can recover and spread status. While Shellos obviously has lower defensive stats than its evo, when paired with Eviolite it's shockingly bulky, even more than its evolution! (I've calc'd; it's not *much* more bulky, only taking a few bit less percent from, say, a Banded Fraxure Outrage, but for a LC mon that's amazing)
Shellos also gets access to some great support moves, like Toxic, Recover and Clear Smog (no Stealth Rock, sadly, if it had it I'd be more positive). It also gets some nice offensive moves like Scald and Earth Power. Its typing is also good defensively, being mono water and only weak to Grass and Electric.
While normally near-useless, one of its abilities (Sticky Hold) lets it prevent its Eviolite being knocked off. This is fantastic and allows it to stay bulky the whole game as well as weakening Knock Off.

However, it's not without its flaws. It lacks the Ground type of its evolution, meaning it is slightly worse defensively and loses an immunity to Electric. Not having passive recovery also sucks since it's worn down a bit easily. The weakness to Grass especially hurts considering how common it is in the tier with prominent threats like Gourgeist-Large and Trevenant. Still, its other traits make up for these short comings.

Because of these advantageous traits, I'd say it deserves a rating of at least C+. It's a good old fashioned bulky Water-type, and in a tier lacking in those it's quite welcome. It also walls common physical threats like Stonjourner, Hippopotas (not quite a physical attacker but dies to Scald anyway lol), and Silvally-Ice. However, its weakness to Grass and Electric (which are pretty common) and mediocre special bulk keep it from being truly fantastic.

If you want to nominate a currently unranked Pokemon to be ranked, replays are a requirement. Preferably, these are replays against high level players so that you really show us that this Pokemon can put in work.

Unless you add replays showcasing Shellos's niche in the current metagame, it will not be added onto the next slate. I'd also like to see you expand upon what Shellos does in the current metagame rather than describing the mon itself and why it should be used over other walls or bulky Water-types (i.e more of what you said in the last paragraph, less fluff).

heres my nom
C -> UR
We have hattrem now, come on

Normally I'd delete posts like these but this one is extremely obvious. As such, this is the only Hatenna nom the thread should have.

 

[czim]

NEW STUFF
-> B-/C+ - This one is a bit worse than I expected, having a ground type that can't really check Stonjourner and Electrics is really tough for teambuilding and I usually favour Whiscash or Palpitoad in my builds whenever I tried Dugtrio. It's not terrible but its just not that good
-> A - Really good mon that all teams need to account for and can support offensive and defensive teams in a lot of ways, similar to our A ranked Vespiquen, so this fits.

RISES
A -> A+ - What even switches into this thing comfortably? This can run a wide variety of sets and be threatening on pretty much every single one of them, similarly to our A+ mons Gourg and Klang. This is very strong and it definitely edges out of A.
B+ -> A-/A - You can hate me all you want but one thing is for sure, Whiscash is really damn good in this metagame. Switchins are limited and it has a ton of defensive utility resisting Steel, Electric and Rock giving it several switchins during the match. Checking Stonjourner while being able to wallbreak is a fantastic trait and this mon deserves to be higher.
B+ -> A- - Here we go again on this one too, Ivysaur has been slowly edging itself into the meta as balance cores start to be more reliable and it's impossible to switch in as its used to be. Definitely edges the B+ mons and alongside Whiscash is just getting better. I swear i probably nommed Ivysaur and Whiscash up for what now, 3rd time?
B- -> B - Krokorok became a lot better recently with Grass spam being edged out of the meta and Hattrem dropping, its obviously still a B mon but it's one of the best offensive rockers in the metagame, and an interesting alternative to Stonjourner since it has 2 key immunities.
B- -> B - What even switches into this thing comfortably in this metagame? Most special tanks are weak to it such as Klang, Vespiquen and Dusclops and despite its flaws Lampent is a very threatening mon that is underprepped for, and can usually just spam whatever STAB your opponent is weak to.
C+ -> B- - Nothing really changed for it but this was definitely lower than it should've been in the first place, scary Choice Specs user and has some unexplored potential with Sub Recycle sets.
C+ -> B- - This just feels out of place as well, Whirlipede seems more in place with other niche hazard setters such as Dunsparce and Solrock.

DROPS
A -> B+/A- - Grassy Terrain is still good but its way less threatening than it used to be. Swoobat being removed from the meta made balance teams less easy for them to steamroll through builds and this is more fitting of their place in the meta right now.
A -> A- - Still good and annoying but Vespiquen seems like the superior Defogger right now ( and it doesnt even need run Defog that much), Swoobat being removed and Grassy Spam being less common just makes Vullaby less necessary.
A- -> B+ - A victim of Hattrem for sure. It's definitely still a good check to Stonjourner and Electric-types but teams are prefering offensive hazard setters which pushes it out of the meta in favor of other mons such as Whiscash.
A- -> B+ - Same deal as Vullaby, its utility is less necessary due to Grassy Terrain being less common and its just not as good.
B+ -> B- - This seems out of place with the other B+ ranks, feels more at home with niche hazard setters such as Solrock and Dunsparce.
B- -> C - Hattrem dropping is awful for Bronzor, it's just way too weak to even pressure Hattrem with minimal chip. It's still useful but much less so
C+ -> C - Gloom is just rough to use right now, it struggles to take advantage of our prominent physical attackers and most of the time it's just an inferior Shiinotic, Ivysaur or Bellossom on whatever it tries to do.
From here on out its cleanup time
C+ -> C-/UR - Natu likely still has a small niche as Magic Bounce + Teleport but idk if this is enough to warrant a rank because Hattrem is just a better bouncer (Also I can't nom Hatenna to UR since big boss 5gen said so)
C->C-/UR - How the mighty have fallen . Cufant is just not good, its not even the best Steel-type rocker anymore since Bronzor can beat G-Mime 1v1. Hattrem dropping is just the final nail in the coffin, making Cufant even less reliable.
C->UR - With Hattrem dropping these 2 are just terrible right now, HO webs is just even less reliable since Swirlix can't setup vs Hattrem and Trubbish is just an inferior Fighting-check to Whirlipede or Vespiquen, all that can pressure Hattrem more while setting Toxic Spikes.
C- -> UR - Both are just awful mons that were ranked for their tiny niches but honestly, those niches just aren't useful enough to warrant a rank in this metagame.

 

[kay]

Well now that Iron Defense klang is out of the bag I might as well make a post about my thoughts on the VR to reflect the current meta we're seeing in ZUPL as well as some of my own personal thoughts


Rises:

A+ --> S
Welcome to Klang meta. From week 1 klang has been a monster inside ZUPL and with the advent of Iron Defense Klang we're seeing a lot of would be counter play to Klang be totally removed which basically leaves Whiscash, BU grap, knock off + Palp, and trick scarf as the only real forms of counterplay against it. It also finds opportunities to set up in almost every match up with little to no support thanks to the insane defensive uses Klang also boasts by being able to wall out almost half the tier.

B+ --> A+
Whiscash is by far the best wall breaker in the tier. Not many teams have answers to water/ground/ice coverage and thanks to its amazing typing its able to also be one of the few Klang counters as well as an offensive answer to the ever popular Stonjourner which allows you to start breaking holes into teams whenever you're able to get it in which is more often then you'd expect for a mon of its speed tier.

B+ --> A-
Machoke is extremely good in this meta because a lot of teams just can't deal with its bulk + knock off + power. And right now with Knock off being valued so heavily to deal with ID klang and confusion being able to just get you there vs klang too, it finds itself in a very favorable position in the meta and carves out a niche for itself that Grapploct can't compete with.

A --> A+
Mime-g is honestly one the scariest set up sweepers in the tier. As an ice type not bothered by Klang or hazards thanks to boots it finds itself in a really cool spot of pick your fodder if you ever get it set up to +2 because Ice beam/Psychic/Focus Blast has almost no switch ins at +2.

A- --> A
The really abusive thing about regular Mime is that it shares almost none of the same switch ins as mime-g which makes it a really cool dark horse to run as teams will be less prepped for it on average then Mime-g while also offering a lot of sought after utility such as Healing Wish and Trick that you wont find in any other places.

B --> B+/A-
Sand is really cool and after bringing it in week 3 of ZUPL I've had it in high regards ever since. Not a lot to say about it other then its just an extremely good late game finisher after you can get a few walls knocked off or chipped like Vullaby or Hippo.

B+ --> A-
This mon is such a pain to actually break and with knock off you even lack switch ins to it because it actually really hurts. I found in a lot of my games using it that my win conditions more often then not was just don't let ivy get knocked and it literally just wins some games on its own.

B- --> B+
Okay so this ones a little bit of my own brain craft turning out to be really good so I figured I'd nom it for a bump and explain.

Solrock is the only rocker in the tier where you can get the role compression for scarf Stonjourner answer as well as an answer to mime-g (and soft answer to regular mime as it can trick scarf you or break you with NP if its willing to lose 65-78% for it) and with access to recovery it means you get that much sought after longevity that you'd want out of your Stonjourner asnwer.

the set for those wanting to try

Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Toxic
- Morning Sun

Drops:

B+ --> B-
Power crept out. We gained so many new hazard removal mons and the SS sets just aren't as threatening as they once were.

A- --> B
With Swoobat gone this mon lost a lot of its viability as the premier defensive swoobat answer. Physically defensive sets however still hold an interesting place in the meta as a hard stop to grassy terrain teams so it can still hold on to a little bit of viability, but for such a niche use and the sp.d sets of old becoming bad as every good special attacker in the tier has a way around it, I think its time to drop.

B+ --> C
This mon does nothing relevant in the tier for us. Sure its an ice resist but being rocks weak while not being able to run boots really hurts any defensive merit it has and use for spike stack is at an all time low thanks to Hat dropping.

B+ --> B-
Another case of power creep and losing Swoobat really removing the need for Dark types. It really offers nothing that you can find from other mons in the meta that do its job better.

B+ --> B
Swoobats gone so scarf sets are really bad and spike sets just get ruined by Hat being in the tier. It still can be annoying for some teams to deal with as taunt + super fang is extremely annoying to get past if you don't have hat so its still okay. Just nothing amazing.

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

UR > A: Awesome hazard control that is exploited by pivots that bring it in safely. The two sets I've seen, a dedicated hazard prevention RestTalk Set and Three attacks + Healing Wish, both have good merit to them in how they function. Its bulk is able to stomach attackers like Choice Scarf Stonjourner and Grapploct, but is taken advantage of by Klang and Vullaby. It's also not the most fun to make the team's Psychic-type be so slow and weak, which limits teambuilding for other potential sweepers or wallbreakers less the team can afford to stack Dark- and Ghost-type weaknesses.

UR > B: Painfully average, it's the Speed and coverage that makes it noteworthy. The biggest issue is that the meta relies on bulky Ground-types as checks to Stonjourner, Klang, and Pikachu, and Dugtrio cannot switch into any of them. At the end of the day, there's just better Choice Scarf or fast users to chose from.

A > A+: Now that its sets have been figured out, teams are absolutely loving Grapp as a wallbreaker / balancebreaker. Easily one of the most threatening mons in the meta, it has enough coverage and inherent support to break through and even sweep some of the more prepared teams, depending if it opts for Octolock, Bulk Up, Subsitute, Sucker Punch, ect.

A > A+: Okay yes it's true I used Vespiquen all 5 games for ZUPL LOL. But a slow pivot and great special bulk, so much so that it even tanks Galarain Mr. Mime's Freeze Dry of all things, makes it an incredibly viable pivot. That, and the fact it's one of the only handful of viable Defog

A > B+: Grassy Terrain took a hit with Swoobat gone. It's no longer top meta and instead an interesting sub-playstyle for players to pick apart.

B+ > A: I guess in Grassy Terrain's place are two reliable, meta-dependent breakers in Whiscash and Ivysaur. The former has a super valuable defensive typing that also covers a lot offensively, arguably breaking more in 3 moves than what its competition aims to do with 4. The latter was under appreciated as of last shift imo, but the typing allows it to absorb Toxic Spikes on top of being an awesome support mon to tear apart bulky teams; even against HO, it has enough natural bulk to check some attackers so long as its healthy. In short, both are apt for the current meta and state of affairs, wouldn't be ZU without them.

Mostly agree with Kay and Czim on their norms as well. There's not too much more to add as this month's shifts + Swoobat ban didn't cause any turmoil in the meta.

 

[JonAmon 25]

RISES:

C- > B- or higher: Not much has changed about Lickitung, but I just personally think it was ranked way too low. Lickitung is almost a requirement on stall with it’s Heal Bell and Wish support and high special bulk. It’s even decent on balanced teams as a special wall, able to use Knock Off and Heal Bell to differentiate itself from Klang as a more support mon. Definitely still a momentum sink, but significantly better than what it’s currently ranked.

C+ > B-/B: Mudbray is able to beat the two best Pokemon in the meta in Stonjourner and Klang and other physical attackers like Fraxure and Stoutland in conjunction with almost nothing in the tier wanting to switch into it’s strong Earthquake or Toxic. Very decent mon that’s held back by a lack of reliable recovery

B- > B: Despite what risin_glory said, I actually think Vibrava should rise. Vibrava is the only Defogger in the tier that is able to beat Ston, which combined with only taking 6% from rocks and being immune to both Spikes/Webs allows very easy pivoting and hazard removal

DROPS:

B+ > B-/C+: Carkol is just so incredibly easy to wear down to be worth it for hazard removal in most situations. Being weak to Stealth Rock, hit by spikes, and lacking any type of recovery makes it unreliable at Rapid Spinning and hazard setting throughout the game.

 

[AstilCodex]

First time nomming stuff. Imma try to make it quicker on those already covered. (Spoiler: I didn't)

New ones:

New to B. Dugtrio its a fast offensive ground and it sometimes hard to switch into with balance teams but its also hard to get it in cuz its so frail and doesnt count as a ground type cuz u fear ston and electric types anyway. I think B its okay for dug now but it may be lower.

New to A. Hattrem its a solid addition to the tier that supports pretty much every playstyle and sits on lots of setters even the offensive ones. Annoying to face but overall a great mon in the tier.


Rises:

A to A+ Its incredibly annoying to switch into this thing as it always gain smth out of the turn when its in. Its really bulky and has the tools to bypass its checks. Also this thing doesnt have true counters as it only has checks. Prob spritzee and marill are the only things that switches nicely against Grapp lol

A to A+ Pikachu its such a menace to balanced and offensive teams as its a safer way to check and stop potential faster threads in Fake Out+Espeed and it just koffs and volt switches on bulkier ones. I feel like its better than the ones in A rn.

A- to A We honestly lack good ice switch-ins. If u look at current vr from S to B only Klang, Corsola, Turt and Pyuku switch comfy into MU (Carkol fears Surf) and these mons can get crippled easily besides klang. Icevally SDs on a lot of mons cuz its natural bulk and Flame Charge gives it the speed boost to not lose against scarfers and can easily sweep after that.

B+ to A- Pretty much what czim, kay and Ho3n said so this post isnt that long lmao.

B to B+ I genuinely love this mon. Emolga its a fast offensive pivot that has been gaining popularity and its a real pick as a defogger. Great speed tier and typing alongside with boots makes it a fine glue for a balanced team, ground types doesnt like koff and grass fears air slash. All its funcionality makes it edges out of B for me.

B- to B Krok its one of the best offensive ground that we have rn. Typing its pretty good and its offensive capabilites its nothing to sleep on (Better than Duggy imo) Both offensive rocks and scarf are good sets and I think this mon its a little underexplored.

B- to B If Stout its B this has to go there too. Beartic its crazy strong and its flaws get mitigated when its under rain or snow. Tho this playstyles arent that good, Beartic alone makes them exist so the abuser its actually a mon that highlights as a weather mon over the abusers. Only thing that makes this suck its is speed and thats why weather its there.

B- to B Our fire types sucks but if there was one fully evolved itll be so good lol. Lampent its really hard to get in but its hard to switch into at the time as main walls are weak to its STABs. Also it can run a enough variety of sets that makes you scout for it first. B mon imo.

C+ to B-/B Why is this so low lmao. It actually doesnt get outclassed by the other electric as fairy type makes it have a good niche and some good resistances. Maybe B its too much but def not a C mon.


Drops: (I'm lazy on this part)

A+ to A It just doesnt feel as dominant as it one was so I think rn A+ its too much.

A to A-/B+ Idt grassy terrain is as solid as it once was without Swoo so this has to fall a spot or two.

A to A- This mon its not that good right now as it gets pressured easily by rocks and koff and there are better ways of hazard removal rn. Also as I said Gterrain and psychics arent that dominant its less needed.

A- to B+ This might be just me, but I don't like this mon rn. As a wall being so passive relying so much on resttalk and being afraid of polter and koff makes it fall from the As from my perspective.

A- to B+/B Palp has been losing its place as a rocker mainly cuz of how passive it is. Hattrem sits on it. And overall its not great, still a good ston and electric check but even those (Pika, Raichu and Emolga) can koff and crippled it bcuz of the lack of recovery that this mon has.

A- to B+ Same as Vulla, its just not that good rn as grassy and psychic guys arent that prominents. This doesnt fit the As.

B+ to B/B- As much as I like Car, its true that this thing aint that good. Its niche as a setter its not enough to justify how its easily pressured by rocks and just neutral hits making it a bad spinner and the fact that it cant run boots makes less viable. Flame Body its scary but thats it

B+ to B Somehow this doesnt feel that good rn as its better to pick another mons to fits its roll. (Persian, Stout or Pikachu).

B+ to B Glalie feels kinda meh compared to the other ice types like gmime and icevally. Also being an ice type isnt great for a spike setter.

B to B-/C+ I dont think that this mon was ever a B material. Even more now that Swoo its gone and I havent seen screens been relevant at all to justify it being that high.