CaP Prevos - Nohface Typing Discussion

[DHR-107]

Hey all! We are back at it, and this time we are going to be looking at the process for Nohface!

We're going to be working over the last of the Gen 4 prevos and get them completed and up to Gen 8 standards over the next few weeks. We're going to be looking at getting all the stages minus movepool done relatively quickly, which is why we are here now to look at the typing for Nohface!

Nohface is currently getting full artwork over here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cap-prevo-nohface-art-submissions.3667725/

Kitsonuh is currently listed as Steel/Ghost. This typing will automatically make any slate if we decide to have to go to a vote.

We have a fair bit of flavour reasoning for leaving it as a Steel type in the fact that Mawile, Wormaddam Trash and Galarian Meowth exist. However, I am open to see what else people think!

We'll have this up for 72 hours (Three days)!

 

[Zephyri]

My proposed typing for this mon would be pure Ghost. As it stands, there's nothing particularly metal-like about it, barring maybe the horns. Furthermore, pokemon have gained the Steel type on evolution on numerous occasions, some examples being Riolu, Drilbur, and Corvisquire. Normal-Ghost also seems like an alright option, although I do like it a bit less than pure-ghost. I strongly advocate against pure Steel... there's nothing that points to the steel type at the moment and a lot more that says ghost.

 

[Quanyails]

I think pure Ghost should be on the slate. The design has little Steel flavor inspiration besides the little ear spike things, while the ragged blue body and beady red eyes are spooky to me.

The typing order is arbitrary for the sake of competitive purposes, so there's no reason Kitsunoh's type order should remain Steel primary and Ghost secondary. Furthermore, Onix gains Steel as a primary type when evolving to Steelix, so depending on evolution method, a change in primary typing can make sense, if we elect not to swap Kitsunoh's primary/secondary types.

 

[MrDollSteak]

I want to echo support for Mono Ghost-typing. I dont think there's enough steel flavour in its basic design. I would support either ret-conning Kitsunoh to be a Ghost/Steel type, or keeping it as is, as Galarian Slowbro shows precedent for an evolved Pokemon moving its prevolutions primary type to a secondary.

 

[Reviloja753]

I want to also throw my support for a pure Ghost typing. There is nothing in the design that indicates a Steel typing whatsoever, and it just makes sense. The name of it (at least for now, not sure if it’s gonna be renamed) is Nohface, as in no face. The Steel typing comes from the “face” it gets when it evolves, among other factors. As such, it makes perfect sense to me to give Nohface a pure Ghost typing.

I’d like to briefly say I also support Normal/Ghost, though perhaps not to the exact same extent. Considering that the artist behind Nohface has stated it has legs and that it’s just being hidden by fur, and the fact that Kitsunoh as is gets a boatload of Normal-type moves to begin with, I can easily say Normal/Ghost working out. My only real issue is adding Normal over Steel feels just an inch forced, but it’s just a gut feeling. Ghost and Normal/Ghost would both be perfectly fitting type combinations for Nohface.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Almost no Pokémon shift their primary type to a secondary on evolution. The only exceptions I'm aware of are Mr. Mime-Galar (which honestly shouldn't count) and Slowbro-Galar. Just Ghost breaks this pattern.

Normal/Ghost seems lit though, for reasons listed by others.

 

[Zetalz]

I'll throw my hat into the mono Ghost lot as well and to add onto what's been said about possibly retroactively changing Kitsunoh's type order, I really don't think this is necessary for our purposes. Quany and MDS both gave good examples of mons that change their primary type on evolve/shift their primary to secondary (the Galarian Slowbro example in particular).

While I'm not wholly against changing Kit's type order, something I am more against is giving it a different primary type such as Normal/Ghost as suggested by Zephyr. While Normal is already a bit of a stretch to turn Steel (at least imo) I take more issue that this would be the third cap prevo to have it's primary type changed to Normal (Voodoll and Scratchet being the first two). You can definitely make arguments for those two to not have their evolutions primary types, but with regards to Steel I just don't see it working out the same. We shouldn't feel forced to giving it Normal (or any other off the wall primary for that matter) when there do exist alternatives.

although it would be nice to get some people to stop talking about a Normal/Ghost cap finally lmao

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

Pretty much further agreement on the pureGhost typing. Nohface has no mask to cover its...lack of face, and the masks are pretty much the main flavoring for Kitsunoh's Steel typing, so it makes sense for the nature of Nohface just be a ghosty. People above have given good reason why the primary type change ain't an issue.

And to further discuss, while I don't hate Normal/Ghost I really dont see the necessity of it since the former typing serves the flavor fine.

 

[Menshay]

Pure Ghost seems the most natural, and I cannot see anything Normal in Nohface's design.
If a strong necessity to have a dual typing is felt I could see Dark/Ghost fitting somewhat, but again, this time I don't see any need to overcomplicate things.

 

[MrPanda]

I don't see better alternative than pure Ghost typing. Nohface hasn't any steel/metallic flavor besides the ears/horns that aren't a big stuff on your design actually, then Steel/Ghost doesn't seem to fit it properly. Normal/Ghost just sounds like "Hey, we must make a Normal/Ghost CAP. Why don't make it this?". Normal has been a very confusing type about what it means along the years, but what's the point in Nohface being a Normal type? Just because it looks like a fox?

 

[Bughouse]

I have no particular issue with taking Steel out of the typing, based on Kitsunoh's level up or egg movepool and agree that pure Ghost, along with altering the order of Kitsunoh's typing to make more consistent flavor sense.

While Kitsunoh was created in an era where Main Typing and Secondary Typing were selected separately, there's fundamentally no reason that the typing order otherwise matters, and secondary Ghost by evolution is very strange.

As of Gen IV when Kitsunoh was made, though, only 2 Pokemon had a secondary Ghost typing via evolution: 1 is Froslass, which was pretty much forced by virtue of Snorunt being an existing Pokemon from a prior generation (much like the Onix->Steelix example being given as why changing primary is ok. It's really not. This is a huge outlier with a clear explanation that Kitsunoh does not have. Nohface and Kit are both DPP mons.), and the other is Shedinja, who is a very strange evolutionary case.
By contrast, Steel had been added as secondary via standard evolution process to: Forretress, Empoleon, Wormadam, Lucario, and Probopass, (and changed as Secondary for Scizor)

 

[Mova]

Hey, I would not mind if Nohface is treated as mono Ghost if we change Kitsunoh to Ghost/Steel. The latter's order is more fitting for Kit since the mask is gained upon evolution. Also, even though Slowpoke- and Slowbro-Galar evolve from Psychic to Poison/Psychic, and Mime Jr. can evolve from Psychic/Fairy to Ice/Psychic in Galar, that is a more recent addition to the game.

 

[Ducky Mioda]

I guess Nohface should be a dual-type Fairy/Steel Pokemon, considering how some Pokemon change types upon evolving...

 

[G-Luke]

I support pure Ghost typing. Gamefreak has clearly established that typing order doesn't seem to matter, with the introduction of Galarian Slowpoke. It is a Psychic type, that evolves into a Poison / Psychic. If Game Freak can do it, I don't see why we can't do it too.

Screw Normal typing. I am genuinely tired of Normal type baby CAPs evolving into another typing. Nothing about Nohface is normal. IT HAS NO FACE THATS NOT NORMAL

 

[theotherguytm]

Yep, mono Ghost sounds like the way to go here. I also don't see a need to change Kitsunoh's typing order, but it seems the majority of the thread is going that way, and it follows precedent from the time.

 

[Quanyails]

Just a reminder that Nohface is a pre-evo to a Gen. IV CAP. I'm not sure if we should be using Gen. VIII Pokemon as justification. (It doesn't dissuade me from pure Ghost, given the other arguments for it, though.)

 

[snake]

I think there’s some decent reasoning to retain Steel / Ghost. Nohface does get Metal Sound and Meteor Mash via egg moves. Metal Sound is generally learned by Pokemon with Steel-, Electric-, or Rock-type typings, while Meteor Mash is generally known for being used by Steel-types (though Riolu does get it by Egg Move, so maybe this is a bit of a moot point). Also, Nohface has those horns on its head which could point towards having Steel typing.

That said, Kitsunoh does get Metal Claw by evolution move, so mono-Ghost wouldn’t be awful. I would just find it annoying to have Ghost turn into Steel/Ghost. Gracing the return of CAP LC with another untrappable Ghost-type is also kinda neat, though I understand that’s not the primary goal here.

 

[Bughouse]

If changing Kit's typing order is too edgy, then yeah Steel/Ghost -> Steel/Ghost is of course fine.
There's just barely enough design elements to justify Steel on Nohface and the movepool would obviously work fine with it too.

However, I would like to know how this will be resolved... my preference is Ghost, but only if Kit's typing order changes to match. I'm not voting for Ghost->Steel/Ghost as "flavor" cuz ew.

 

[DHR-107]

Hey all,

Slate will be the following based on CC:

Steel/Ghost
Ghost + keep Kitsunoh's typing Steel/Ghost
Ghost + update Kitsunoh's typing to Ghost/Steel

Normal/Ghost and Pure Steel didn't get much say so we've ignored those.