This isn't true for the record. Roost only removes a Pokemon's Flying typing. Latios is not a Flying-type and Roost does not remove Levitate for the turn. There is virtually no difference between using Recover and Roost on Latios.
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Gotcha. This is the main reason I'm considering Ttar lol.
Ok. I though that Roost lands a Pokemon whether it's flying or not.
Multiscale Lugia also now has access to Psycho Boost (which can be obtained by purifying Shadow Lugia in Pokémon XD), thanks to the ability patch!The following Pokemon have all returned in the Crown Tundra, and I will list each one alongside the new moves it received. I'll split each move list by categories (physical, special, and status). If there's a missing category, then that means there are no new moves learned for that category.
First, I'll leave a quick list of mons that had moves that were only available through an event that forced these pokemon to be restricted to a nature or an ability. However, due to TM's, TR's, Mints and the Ability Patch item, these moves can now be run without their previous restrictions.
Genesect - Blaze Kick
Raikou - Aura Sphere, Extremespeed, Weather Ball
Entei - Extremespeed, Flare Blitz
Suicune - Air Slash, Extremespeed
Heatran - Eruption*
Eruption is technically still an event move with it's main restriction being that Heatran was forced into a Quiet nature. That is no longer the case with mints and is why it is listed above.
Genesect must be shiny in order to use Extremespeed or Shift Gear.
Hi friends it's me. So its been 3 days and this metagame is while fun, pretty insane and I want to over what I've been seeing in the metagame that caught my eye in the 3 days this has gone on for when building and playing, so lets gooooo.
Gravity Landorus
I find this to be, in my opinion, the best variant on Landorus-I and in my eyes the hardest to deal with. You know how stuff like Corviknight, Zapdos, Tornadus-T, opposing Lando forms and Moltres are some of the best answers to Landorus? Well with Gravity, they are all essentially KO'd by it, especially Corviknight, which is one of the best overall checks to Landorus-I lacking either this move or Focus Blast, but I don't use Focus Blast for 1 reason, the lack of Blissey. The metagame is so riddled with offense and pressure that defensive Pokemon simply do not have an opportunity to breath, and Blissey is one of those Pokemon. Corviknight, on the other hand, even in a metagame like this I feel is still pretty great and still has a place on many teams, and Gravity simply just nullifies it as an answer to this Pokemon. This really goes back to why Landorus-I is so hard to deal with, having to pray it doesn't have the coverage move for you because its able to beat pretty much everything with the correct coverage, and I feel Gravity Landorus-I perfectly displays that.
Swampert
This was brought up already by Finch, and honestly I am really surprised with how consistently good it has been for me every game I played it with. Its a Rocker that is able to check stuff like Blaziken, Landorus forms, Heatran, Garchomp, incredibly well while also providing momentum for teams with Flip Turn, I feel thats incredibly valuable for any team and I'm going to echo this Pokemon because I feel this needs to be used by more people. Its simply a very consistent rocker right now, which is really surprising given how it failed to have a solid niche other than being a rain sweeper because of its Mega form.
CB Genesect
I am mentioning Genesect again because right now I think it is without a doubt, the single best Pokemon in the entire metagame right now, and Choice Band in my opinion is exactly why. This set is ludicrously broken and easily its best set imo, it compresses so many offensive roles just in one set. It is a powerful breaker, revenge killer, offensive pivot and speed control all in 1 slot while also providing some defensive utility in its great typing. This basically makes this incredibly low risk, insanely high reward, and extremely splashable. This Pokemon can revenge kill almost any Pokemon right now, especially ones like Pheromosa, Blaziken, Naganadel, Regieleki and Tapu Koko. U-turn / Extreme Speed / Iron Head are the ones that it really needs and Blaze Kick is the preferred forth, but honestly that isn't even required; you can go either Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. Ice Beam if you want to hit Lando forms and Garchomp without taking Rough Skin and potentially Rocky Helmet damage, and Thunderbolt if you want to hit Corviknight really hard, and it can use these well because Download is simply that good. So yeah, this Pokemon is stupid good and also broken as hell if you didn't know already.
Gravity Landorus
I find this to be, in my opinion, the best variant on Landorus-I and in my eyes the hardest to deal with. You know how stuff like Corviknight, Zapdos, Tornadus-T, opposing Lando forms and Moltres are some of the best answers to Landorus? Well with Gravity, they are all essentially KO'd by it, especially Corviknight, which is one of the best overall checks to Landorus-I lacking either this move or Focus Blast, but I don't use Focus Blast for 1 reason, the lack of Blissey. The metagame is so riddled with offense and pressure that defensive Pokemon simply do not have an opportunity to breath, and Blissey is one of those Pokemon. Corviknight, on the other hand, even in a metagame like this I feel is still pretty great and still has a place on many teams, and Gravity simply just nullifies it as an answer to this Pokemon. This really goes back to why Landorus-I is so hard to deal with, having to pray it doesn't have the coverage move for you because its able to beat pretty much everything with the correct coverage, and I feel Gravity Landorus-I perfectly displays that.
Swampert
This was brought up already by Finch, and honestly I am really surprised with how consistently good it has been for me every game I played it with. Its a Rocker that is able to check stuff like Blaziken, Landorus forms, Heatran, Garchomp, incredibly well while also providing momentum for teams with Flip Turn, I feel thats incredibly valuable for any team and I'm going to echo this Pokemon because I feel this needs to be used by more people. Its simply a very consistent rocker right now, which is really surprising given how it failed to have a solid niche other than being a rain sweeper because of its Mega form.
CB Genesect
I am mentioning Genesect again because right now I think it is without a doubt, the single best Pokemon in the entire metagame right now, and Choice Band in my opinion is exactly why. This set is ludicrously broken and easily its best set imo, it compresses so many offensive roles just in one set. It is a powerful breaker, revenge killer, offensive pivot and speed control all in 1 slot while also providing some defensive utility in its great typing. This basically makes this incredibly low risk, insanely high reward, and extremely splashable. This Pokemon can revenge kill almost any Pokemon right now, especially ones like Pheromosa, Blaziken, Naganadel, Regieleki and Tapu Koko. U-turn / Extreme Speed / Iron Head are the ones that it really needs and Blaze Kick is the preferred forth, but honestly that isn't even required; you can go either Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. Ice Beam if you want to hit Lando forms and Garchomp without taking Rough Skin and potentially Rocky Helmet damage, and Thunderbolt if you want to hit Corviknight really hard, and it can use these well because Download is simply that good. So yeah, this Pokemon is stupid good and also broken as hell if you didn't know already.
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I would like to discuss a pokemon that hasn't been discussed here as of yet that has put in work for me so far and that is Nihilego.
Nihilego @ Power Herb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Meteor Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Grass Knot/Dazzling Gleam
This is the set I've been running,Nihilego has the strongest meteor beam in the game and that is a valuable asset even if it's a niche one as best imo. You'd be surprised how many people underestimate this thing.Genesects straight up be staying in thinking they'll be able to easily win the 1v1 only for them to get OHKOed by meteor beam.Toxic spikes are also a great support, I truly think it's really underrated in this metagame and I think Nihilego is the best setter. The other two main toxic spikes setters that come to mind are Naganadel and Nidoking/Nidoqueen. Naganadel while very good at forcing switch-ins I think is simply a better spikes setter instead because Naganadel appreciates spikes instant damage more than toxic spikes utility in widdling down pokemon with poison. As for Nidoking/Nidoqueen I just don't see the appeal to it. While admittedly it does have a huge up from Nihilego in the fact that it gets better coverage especially earth power that doesn't mean anything when it can't take hits well from both defenses, Nihilego can survive a +2 spectrier and ohko back with Meteor Beam when you're in a pinch and of course, has a lower speed tier than Nihilego. I like pairing Nihilego with mons such as Regieleki since you need to whittle down the ground types any way you can and toxic spikes is a good way to do just that.Sludge Wave is a good reliable stab and for the last move, I've actually been conflicted. Dazzling Gleam can KO zygarde and garchomp when at +1 but grass knot even without plus 1 does a good chunk to hippowdon who is usually used on sand teams which is easily the type of team I have the most trouble with.I've also thought about using power gem but I haven't tried it yet because I don't like the idea of Nihilego's coverage basically being non existent
Nihilego @ Power Herb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Meteor Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Grass Knot/Dazzling Gleam
This is the set I've been running,Nihilego has the strongest meteor beam in the game and that is a valuable asset even if it's a niche one as best imo. You'd be surprised how many people underestimate this thing.Genesects straight up be staying in thinking they'll be able to easily win the 1v1 only for them to get OHKOed by meteor beam.Toxic spikes are also a great support, I truly think it's really underrated in this metagame and I think Nihilego is the best setter. The other two main toxic spikes setters that come to mind are Naganadel and Nidoking/Nidoqueen. Naganadel while very good at forcing switch-ins I think is simply a better spikes setter instead because Naganadel appreciates spikes instant damage more than toxic spikes utility in widdling down pokemon with poison. As for Nidoking/Nidoqueen I just don't see the appeal to it. While admittedly it does have a huge up from Nihilego in the fact that it gets better coverage especially earth power that doesn't mean anything when it can't take hits well from both defenses, Nihilego can survive a +2 spectrier and ohko back with Meteor Beam when you're in a pinch and of course, has a lower speed tier than Nihilego. I like pairing Nihilego with mons such as Regieleki since you need to whittle down the ground types any way you can and toxic spikes is a good way to do just that.Sludge Wave is a good reliable stab and for the last move, I've actually been conflicted. Dazzling Gleam can KO zygarde and garchomp when at +1 but grass knot even without plus 1 does a good chunk to hippowdon who is usually used on sand teams which is easily the type of team I have the most trouble with.I've also thought about using power gem but I haven't tried it yet because I don't like the idea of Nihilego's coverage basically being non existent
On a more OU oriented note, it's the same thing for Heal Bell on Dragonite.
The combination of Imprison + Roost is marginally more viable in OU than the combo of Imprison + Recover. So while technically there is no difference while clicking the move with latis, if you ever come across a cheesy roost+imprison+transform+block mew you'd probably much rather have recover. Its a one in a million scenario, but technically possible.
Alrighty so I've played quite a many games by now, so I have some thoughts on the mons I'd like to share!
Regieleki
There's been a lot of discussion on Eleki, and it's entirely unsurprising as to why. At first, it appeared like a miserable Electric wallbreaker with a blazing speed tier and nothing more, but then we got the data on Transistor, which in tandem with its speed turns Regieleki into arguably one of if not the best revenge killers in the metagame, and an extremely potent wincon in the right hands.
At first, I experimented with a mixed offenses set with Life Orb, which would let it clean games against chipped Ground-types as opposed to necessitating the Ground-type's outright removal first, also allowing for it to revenge kill Pheromosa. While this set certainly works, I've found out quickly how amazing Choice Specs is, especially when paired with Rising Voltage. Although this means outright removal of Ground-types before laying out the foe, it means that Regieleki can win the game on the spot with its nuclear attacks and entirely unrivaled speed tier able to outspeed a majority of Choice Scarf users. Although its movepool is unbearably linear, its power and speed more than make up for it, and have made Regieleki a major surprise for me coming into the tier. I've managed to rack up a lot of elo on the ladder using Eleki as a consistent wincon, and especially with Rising Voltage, it has not at all disappointed.
Its success is a likely surprise to many people, but after using it plenty and thinking on it, I believe the reason behind Eleki's success in execution, despite the severe movepool setback, is because of how incredible it is at forcing in Ground-types, and how the Eleki user can capitalize on that to get in another breaker such as Kyurem-Black, Genesect, Pheromosa, or Spectrier. In combination with hazard damage and the ability to apply major pressure with the help of Eleki's mere existence, wearing down the foe's Eleki check(s) becomes a pretty easy task, and it almost always is a wincon no matter the matchup.
I imagine even if Eleki falls out with the loss of its broken partners, that it will always have a niche in the tier. It's not at all banworthy (at least at the moment), but it's a pretty strong Pokemon in the right hands, and as Gross Sweep mentioned, it is amazing for teaching new players how to detect a wincon and how to get to the point of winning one.
Genesect
Genesect is, without a doubt, the best Pokemon in the tier; more specifically, with its CB Extreme Speed set. I would have said Eleki was the best revenge killer if it wasn't for the existence of Genesect, but Genesect has completely taken the tier by storm, and to nobody's surprise! I won't repeat what everybody else has said, but it is beyond broken. All of its sets are amazing, and it can immaculately prep for literally any matchup it wants, and even if it has blind spots, it can just U-turn and sweep games with CB ESpeed in the late game. It's fucking insane, and is definitely my top suspect for a quickban currently.
Pheromosa
Pheromosa admittedly underwhelms me. I'm not sure if it's the omnipresence of Choice Scarfers, Regieleki, and Genesect outclassing it that's keeping it in check, but I find myself being able to handle it with surprising ease. I can certainly say that it has the potential to be broken, but it can only really get away with HDB in this metagame, and its a lot easier to telegraph and punish than in the past generation; it doesn't help Z-moves aren't around for it anymore to snowball, either. To be honest, I think it has the potential to stay, but only time will truly tell.
Naganadel
Although Z-Draco Meteor isn't around to let it retain its obscene snowballing as far as offensive boosts go, it is extremely good at taking advantage of passive Pokemon and can plow through teams really easily as long as it gets one kill thanks to Beast Boost letting it outspeed literally anything. Although it struggles a lot against offensive teams, it really only needs one kill and Heatran to be gone to really get going, and even in such a speedy meta, I can't see it staying with how absurd it is offensively.
Landorus-I
Landorus-I is an amazing offensive Rocker and stop to Regieleki, and its access to U-turn to bat really helps it out in the Corviknight/Skarmory matchups. Earth Power + Sludge Wave gives it a lot of coverage as far as breaking goes, though I've seen the occasional Psychic as well. I think it is certainly a banworthy threat, but it has a pretty hard time in such a fast meta as it is; I feel it's like Pheromosa where it will probably face justice later when the metagame begins to actually develop.
Though, Zneon made an interesting observation in the form of Gravity, which I've seen to a pretty common degree as well, and it works amazingly, letting the combination of Earth Power + Sludge Wave go wholly unchecked. I personally think it's a bit more consistent as a Stealth Rock setter due to how amazing it is at forcing switches and laying out pressure with its presence alone, but Gravity certainly has a pretty interesting application to the metagame, and is something that shouldn't go without consideration. Overall, it's pretty good, though I can see it leaving in a later quickban round, or possibly a suspect.
Swampert
Swampert is a complete surprise to me, but a very pleasant, welcome one! Flip Turn was a perfect addition to its arsenal, and I mean genuinely perfect. Its bulk and typing by its base is really strong in the metagame, but Flip Turn gives it an incredibly important, massive tool that lets it keep up with such the offensive, momentum-oriented state of everything, and one that hits important targets such as Landorus-I/T super effectively, no less. For this reason, it partners great with Regieleki for its ability to effectively chip down Ground-type targets, dealing with opposing Regielekis, and setting Rocks for its offensive teammates. I expected it to fall to the wayside, but it has a genuine niche right now thanks to the unexpected addition of Flip Turn, and one that I find fairly strong right now.
Spectrier
Spectrier has a similar problem to Regieleki, but with a much more fearsome STAB to bat in Ghost and utility options like Taunt and Wisp to combat its shit matchups. Although Dark-types and Normal-types put a very easy stop to it, its ability to snowball is unlike anything else in the tier thanks to how spammable its Shadow Balls are in general. I find that Nasty Plot + Taunt + 2 Attacks to be its best set, though Choice Scarf is also incredible, and can take games on the spot against more offensive teams.
As the metagame develops, I can see Hex growing in prevalence too, and I think eventually Choice Scarf will become its pinnacle set. Though, its power and speed tier really lets it stand out, even against Dragapult. I can see this thing staying, in all honesty.
Zygarde
Zygarde isn't broken whatsoever, but it is fairly anti-meta against Regieleki builds, being able to spread Glares, set Substitutes, and set-up Dragon Dances to then throw out Thousand Arrows. Almost all Zygardes I see run Glare, which I feel makes complete sense, and works to a pretty egregious extent against offensive teams. Zygarde's in the group of Pokemon that I can see eventually becoming problematic, though--but at the moment, it's pretty palatable and has a pretty neat anti-meta niche.
Landorus-T
Lando is just as good a glue as it was past generation, though I find its defensive Rocky Helmet Stealth Rocks set to be by far its best variant. It's really good at taking on U-turn spam and Melmetal, spreading great chip damage and helping to open up fellow breakers for Bulky Offense and Volt-Turn alike.
Blaziken
It's really hit or miss in such a fast metagame, but another Pokemon that has the capacity to completely claim games in the right hands, similar to Naganadel. I think its cleaning ability is a bit too much, especially with how good it is at taking advantage of passive builds, but it certainly didn't perform as consistently as I expected it to. I still expect it to be gone pretty swiftly, though, and for a good reason.
Kyurem-B
broken broken broken broken broken broken broken broken especially with regi broken broken broken broken Thanks for coming to my ted talk!
In all seriousness, Kyurem-B's breaking power, especially with Dragon Dance, is beyond absurd. It's way, way too good at opening holes and taking advantage of the brutally fast, power crept nature of the metagame with forced switches; in fact, I find it to be Eleki's best partner, as Eleki forcing a Ground-type in is complete free real estate for Kyurem-B to either set up a DD and start breaking major holes in the opponent, or just click a move and get major chip damage on the foe to the point where Eleki or other faster offensive components can just wipe games. tl;dr: fucking absurd mon, as to be expected.
Cinderace
Unexpectedly, I have seldom seen Cinderace on the ladder. I've seen a few, but not enough to make any solid conclusions on it. From my observations, though: it has a rough time. It can't afford to run HDB due to it having the inability to boost its speed naturally, and it has a really awkward speed tier as a result, meaning it really wants a Scarf to keep up with everything, but when Stealth Rocks are everywhere, chip damage racks real fast. I've seen Sucker Punch used a lot too, which certainly helps out, but it's a lot less fearsome than I expected.
Zapdos-Galar
Zapdos is an awesome Choice Scarf user, with amazing dual STABs, U-turn, and access to Stomping Tantrum to batter the Koko matchup. It's super good at keeping hazards up, as a Defiant boost can spell major breaking against the opponent. Even without Defiant, though, the threat of its STABs alone with its base 125 attack is crazy nice. Even if Zapdos falls out of fashion, I think it'll always have a niche in the tier.
Anyway, that's about all I got for now. I have a lot more thoughts, but I just wanted to give the preliminary stuff as far as expected threats and surprising picks go. Thanks for reading!
Regieleki
There's been a lot of discussion on Eleki, and it's entirely unsurprising as to why. At first, it appeared like a miserable Electric wallbreaker with a blazing speed tier and nothing more, but then we got the data on Transistor, which in tandem with its speed turns Regieleki into arguably one of if not the best revenge killers in the metagame, and an extremely potent wincon in the right hands.
At first, I experimented with a mixed offenses set with Life Orb, which would let it clean games against chipped Ground-types as opposed to necessitating the Ground-type's outright removal first, also allowing for it to revenge kill Pheromosa. While this set certainly works, I've found out quickly how amazing Choice Specs is, especially when paired with Rising Voltage. Although this means outright removal of Ground-types before laying out the foe, it means that Regieleki can win the game on the spot with its nuclear attacks and entirely unrivaled speed tier able to outspeed a majority of Choice Scarf users. Although its movepool is unbearably linear, its power and speed more than make up for it, and have made Regieleki a major surprise for me coming into the tier. I've managed to rack up a lot of elo on the ladder using Eleki as a consistent wincon, and especially with Rising Voltage, it has not at all disappointed.
Its success is a likely surprise to many people, but after using it plenty and thinking on it, I believe the reason behind Eleki's success in execution, despite the severe movepool setback, is because of how incredible it is at forcing in Ground-types, and how the Eleki user can capitalize on that to get in another breaker such as Kyurem-Black, Genesect, Pheromosa, or Spectrier. In combination with hazard damage and the ability to apply major pressure with the help of Eleki's mere existence, wearing down the foe's Eleki check(s) becomes a pretty easy task, and it almost always is a wincon no matter the matchup.
I imagine even if Eleki falls out with the loss of its broken partners, that it will always have a niche in the tier. It's not at all banworthy (at least at the moment), but it's a pretty strong Pokemon in the right hands, and as Gross Sweep mentioned, it is amazing for teaching new players how to detect a wincon and how to get to the point of winning one.
Genesect
Genesect is, without a doubt, the best Pokemon in the tier; more specifically, with its CB Extreme Speed set. I would have said Eleki was the best revenge killer if it wasn't for the existence of Genesect, but Genesect has completely taken the tier by storm, and to nobody's surprise! I won't repeat what everybody else has said, but it is beyond broken. All of its sets are amazing, and it can immaculately prep for literally any matchup it wants, and even if it has blind spots, it can just U-turn and sweep games with CB ESpeed in the late game. It's fucking insane, and is definitely my top suspect for a quickban currently.
Pheromosa
Pheromosa admittedly underwhelms me. I'm not sure if it's the omnipresence of Choice Scarfers, Regieleki, and Genesect outclassing it that's keeping it in check, but I find myself being able to handle it with surprising ease. I can certainly say that it has the potential to be broken, but it can only really get away with HDB in this metagame, and its a lot easier to telegraph and punish than in the past generation; it doesn't help Z-moves aren't around for it anymore to snowball, either. To be honest, I think it has the potential to stay, but only time will truly tell.
Naganadel
Although Z-Draco Meteor isn't around to let it retain its obscene snowballing as far as offensive boosts go, it is extremely good at taking advantage of passive Pokemon and can plow through teams really easily as long as it gets one kill thanks to Beast Boost letting it outspeed literally anything. Although it struggles a lot against offensive teams, it really only needs one kill and Heatran to be gone to really get going, and even in such a speedy meta, I can't see it staying with how absurd it is offensively.
Landorus-I
Landorus-I is an amazing offensive Rocker and stop to Regieleki, and its access to U-turn to bat really helps it out in the Corviknight/Skarmory matchups. Earth Power + Sludge Wave gives it a lot of coverage as far as breaking goes, though I've seen the occasional Psychic as well. I think it is certainly a banworthy threat, but it has a pretty hard time in such a fast meta as it is; I feel it's like Pheromosa where it will probably face justice later when the metagame begins to actually develop.
Though, Zneon made an interesting observation in the form of Gravity, which I've seen to a pretty common degree as well, and it works amazingly, letting the combination of Earth Power + Sludge Wave go wholly unchecked. I personally think it's a bit more consistent as a Stealth Rock setter due to how amazing it is at forcing switches and laying out pressure with its presence alone, but Gravity certainly has a pretty interesting application to the metagame, and is something that shouldn't go without consideration. Overall, it's pretty good, though I can see it leaving in a later quickban round, or possibly a suspect.
Swampert
Swampert is a complete surprise to me, but a very pleasant, welcome one! Flip Turn was a perfect addition to its arsenal, and I mean genuinely perfect. Its bulk and typing by its base is really strong in the metagame, but Flip Turn gives it an incredibly important, massive tool that lets it keep up with such the offensive, momentum-oriented state of everything, and one that hits important targets such as Landorus-I/T super effectively, no less. For this reason, it partners great with Regieleki for its ability to effectively chip down Ground-type targets, dealing with opposing Regielekis, and setting Rocks for its offensive teammates. I expected it to fall to the wayside, but it has a genuine niche right now thanks to the unexpected addition of Flip Turn, and one that I find fairly strong right now.
Spectrier
Spectrier has a similar problem to Regieleki, but with a much more fearsome STAB to bat in Ghost and utility options like Taunt and Wisp to combat its shit matchups. Although Dark-types and Normal-types put a very easy stop to it, its ability to snowball is unlike anything else in the tier thanks to how spammable its Shadow Balls are in general. I find that Nasty Plot + Taunt + 2 Attacks to be its best set, though Choice Scarf is also incredible, and can take games on the spot against more offensive teams.
As the metagame develops, I can see Hex growing in prevalence too, and I think eventually Choice Scarf will become its pinnacle set. Though, its power and speed tier really lets it stand out, even against Dragapult. I can see this thing staying, in all honesty.
Zygarde
Zygarde isn't broken whatsoever, but it is fairly anti-meta against Regieleki builds, being able to spread Glares, set Substitutes, and set-up Dragon Dances to then throw out Thousand Arrows. Almost all Zygardes I see run Glare, which I feel makes complete sense, and works to a pretty egregious extent against offensive teams. Zygarde's in the group of Pokemon that I can see eventually becoming problematic, though--but at the moment, it's pretty palatable and has a pretty neat anti-meta niche.
Landorus-T
Lando is just as good a glue as it was past generation, though I find its defensive Rocky Helmet Stealth Rocks set to be by far its best variant. It's really good at taking on U-turn spam and Melmetal, spreading great chip damage and helping to open up fellow breakers for Bulky Offense and Volt-Turn alike.
Blaziken
It's really hit or miss in such a fast metagame, but another Pokemon that has the capacity to completely claim games in the right hands, similar to Naganadel. I think its cleaning ability is a bit too much, especially with how good it is at taking advantage of passive builds, but it certainly didn't perform as consistently as I expected it to. I still expect it to be gone pretty swiftly, though, and for a good reason.
Kyurem-B
broken broken broken broken broken broken broken broken especially with regi broken broken broken broken Thanks for coming to my ted talk!
In all seriousness, Kyurem-B's breaking power, especially with Dragon Dance, is beyond absurd. It's way, way too good at opening holes and taking advantage of the brutally fast, power crept nature of the metagame with forced switches; in fact, I find it to be Eleki's best partner, as Eleki forcing a Ground-type in is complete free real estate for Kyurem-B to either set up a DD and start breaking major holes in the opponent, or just click a move and get major chip damage on the foe to the point where Eleki or other faster offensive components can just wipe games. tl;dr: fucking absurd mon, as to be expected.
Cinderace
Unexpectedly, I have seldom seen Cinderace on the ladder. I've seen a few, but not enough to make any solid conclusions on it. From my observations, though: it has a rough time. It can't afford to run HDB due to it having the inability to boost its speed naturally, and it has a really awkward speed tier as a result, meaning it really wants a Scarf to keep up with everything, but when Stealth Rocks are everywhere, chip damage racks real fast. I've seen Sucker Punch used a lot too, which certainly helps out, but it's a lot less fearsome than I expected.
Zapdos-Galar
Zapdos is an awesome Choice Scarf user, with amazing dual STABs, U-turn, and access to Stomping Tantrum to batter the Koko matchup. It's super good at keeping hazards up, as a Defiant boost can spell major breaking against the opponent. Even without Defiant, though, the threat of its STABs alone with its base 125 attack is crazy nice. Even if Zapdos falls out of fashion, I think it'll always have a niche in the tier.
Anyway, that's about all I got for now. I have a lot more thoughts, but I just wanted to give the preliminary stuff as far as expected threats and surprising picks go. Thanks for reading!
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TCTphantom
formerly MX42
**** this thing.
Genesect is honestly by far the most broken thing in the tier right now. I think the thing that pushes it well over the edge right now is not just how strong it is with its main sets of Scarf and Band, but how customizable it is. I have been rocking Shift Gear, Special Rock Polish, Expert Belt, and Douse and they all put in work. Honestly it is never dead weight is the best part. It always gets momentum, it always punches holes in the opponents team with U Turns, it honestly is super broken. Quickban soon please.
Kyube also is very dumb right now. DD and Icicle Spear push it over the edge so hard. Icicle Spear at +1 rips teams apart. I messed around with Scarf, Band, and the old mixed sets as well. Mixed kind of sucks rn, do not bother using it. Band is scary good at punching things in the face, while scarf is a great lure in this meta rn, shame you are too slow for Naganadel. I think this thing is super dumb though, it is just bulky enough and super strong, it basically guarantees a kill each game.
Boy I got this thing wrong.
I honestly thought Naga would be a lot worse than it was. Turns out that when you are a balanced breaker that rips apart offense for free if you get a boost, you tend to do ok. I thought without Z Draco it would have a much harder time getting that first kill. Problem is, the combo of Draco, Sludge Wave, and Fire Blast is super good especially in this meta. Honestly as bad as Kyube rn.
Lando I I do not think is broken...yet. The problem is that the meta has shifted to hard HO, but it is hard to say that is Lando's fault. A lot of good new toys for offense popped up, Kyube and Naga eat balance alive, and Genesect is the best mon in the meta. It is still super good already with very little changing for it from Gen 7 to 8. Corviknight can beat non Focus Blast variants, but I think this thing will be dumb in the future.
Honestly disappointing so far. That might just be the disgusting amount of Choice Band Genesect, but Phero really takes the hit from no Z Moves way harder than Naganadel did. QD is really bad, you basically will never get to consistently set up in this meta, but even outside of it the lack of Normilium and Fightinium hurt. No more punching through Pex or a weaker mon, sweeping is actually hard. Boots All Out attacker though is quite good. All out attacker sets though have some of the worst 4MSS I have ever seen though. You want CC for stab and Rapid Spin offers so much Utility. But you really also want Ice Beam for Lando, Drill Run for Pex, U Turn for Momentum, and Poison Jab for Clefable. The drop in power from Boots to Life orb hurts, but Life orb is so fragile in this meta that boots is required.
The meta is super hard to evaluate this thing. Without the broken 4, this might be a bigger problem. But the fact stands, 4MSS is bad for Blaziken. You either go for coverage or get Protect to not be dead weight vs offense. Blaziken also suffers from the speed cap being much higher. Without Protect, which you can not afford if you want to not auto lose to balance with Pex or Slowbro, you are in a rough spot since +1 Adamant is still a bit slow. Maybe in the future it might be dumb, but setting up with it vs offense is not likely, while balance has answers to it.
This thing is not broken but I hate it. Glare Spam is annoying as heck.
Scarf Cinderace is actually really cool in this meta. Great vs Kyube, Naga, awesome revenge killer. That being said, yeah this thing I have not encountered once in my laddering. Guess the new toy syndrome of Genesect hit the ladder hard because All Out Attacker sets are still super solid and Scarf is super anti meta rn.
This thing is fun. It still is dumb how Double Iron Bash goes burr, but it has a lot of utility vs offensive builds and is overall something I think is healthy for the meta. Honestly my favorite unban to use, its really nice punishing U Turn spam rn.
Just because the meta is hard for this thing don't sleep on it. Specs is still super good at chunking teams, AV is a good blanket check to Special attackers, and Shift Gear can be nasty in the right circumstances. My second favorite drop to use. Honestly super underrated right now.
TDLR: Genesect is borked. Kybue, Naga, and Lando I are probably too much. Magearna and Melmetal are underrated. Pheromosa is underwhelming and so is Blaziken. If you use Glare Zygarde I do not like you.
Just throwing this out there, don't use Special Rock Polish Genesect. Use Shift Gear+3 special attacks. Same reason you always make it shiny.
**** this thing.
Genesect is honestly by far the most broken thing in the tier right now. I think the thing that pushes it well over the edge right now is not just how strong it is with its main sets of Scarf and Band, but how customizable it is. I have been rocking Shift Gear, Special Rock Polish, Expert Belt, and Douse and they all put in work. Honestly it is never dead weight is the best part. It always gets momentum, it always punches holes in the opponents team with U Turns, it honestly is super broken. Quickban soon please.
Zamazenta Crowned would have been more balanced.
And Gene is so completely wild. That speed tier is a pain, but it reminds me of Lando-T last gen. There's never a time when you're looking at your team wondering what to add when you shouldn't at least consider Genesect.
I know there's some obvious broken stuff right now but lol the meta is three days old chill out with these calls to quick ban.
Like yeah we all know Genesect and Kyub's eventual fate but as little as like 4 days ago the meta was two Clef + Pex cores peckerslapping each other for 80 turns so idk what to tell you. Slap a few Life Orbs on your teams and enjoy some action packed quick matches for the first time in gen 8.
Like yeah we all know Genesect and Kyub's eventual fate but as little as like 4 days ago the meta was two Clef + Pex cores peckerslapping each other for 80 turns so idk what to tell you. Slap a few Life Orbs on your teams and enjoy some action packed quick matches for the first time in gen 8.
Viability List here for the current metagame!
Give me the ClefPex meta please
Really hoping to see some QBs next week. People always complain when it happens too quickly but really, I don't think half of the freed mons needed access to OU in the first place. I respect the council's decision to drop them, as I know they want to be inclusive as possible. But some things just obviously don't belong in the tier, like Kyurem-B and Genesect. I think Blaziken, Magearna, and Naganadel are pretty questionable too, and if they are all suspected at the same pace as pre-Crown Tundra mons it's gonna be a pretty painful experience. I think some people saw minor buffs in mons like Naganadel losing Z moves, without acknowledging it's retained all of its other great qualities and can now viably run Scarf to wreck offensive teams or Specs for more defensive builds.
That is a niche set that could appear more often than you'd think but it would always use Transform before Imprison so it doesn't matter which one you are running. The only thing would be using a set that seeks to use Imprison without using Transform, which no pokemon does even as cheese.
Yeah and I don't really get all the complaining about the shallow movepools. Regieleki would be straight up broken if it had any decent coverage. Koko, Lele and Spectrier would get the boot too. We should be thankful they don't have a good movepool. The more mons in OU the better and more diversity is always good. I was tired of Toxapex just regening all day and spamming Knock Off and fishing for burns. Now there's more counterplay available for example Tapu Fini negating status so you can Swords Dance on it's face with a teammate without risking a burn or getting Toxic'd as you Calm Mind/NP or whatever.
Some more thoughts on the OU metagame.
What? If Mew uses Transform, it can no longer use Imprison. You’ve got to Imprison first, which makes Roost the clearly superior option.
Presenting what I think is probably the best defogger in the tier right now, and that is Tornadus-Therian. I have built a good chunk of teams for DLC 2 now and honestly, I was looking at my favorite ones from those and Tornadus-T is literally in all of them for support.
@ 
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog
- Hurricane
Tornadus-T's selling point to begin with is its insanely good speed tier paired with a decent bulk alongside Regenerator. With a base 121 Speed, it Speed ties +Speed Naganadel and outspeeds a lot of Pokemon in the tier. In past generations, you could punish Tornadus's Regenerator by putting up Stealth Rock, however in this generation, it really is quite difficult to punish Tornadus-T for switching in and out. Heavy-Duty Boots is a blessing for the green genie as it allows it to get in, pull a fast U-turn, and escape, swinging the game's momentum in your favor. There aren't many users faster than Tornadus-T that can knock off HDB before Tornadus-T moves as well, so unless Tornadus-T decides to stay in to Defog or Knock Off, it really is difficult to remove HDB from Tornadus-Therian during a game. As far as I can recall, the four most common ways to Knock Off HDB before Tornadus-T U-turns out are: Weavile (but Weavile would want to click his Ice-type STAB on Tornadus-T, and the Tornadus-T user would probably just manually switch out), Zeraora (same case as Weavile, except with an Plasma Fists), Tornadus-T winning a speed tie against itself (which essentially is a coin flip), and scarfed Knock Off users like Lando-T/Kartana. I should also mention that I haven't seen Zeraora and Weavile being used in any of my DLC 2 games yet.
tl;dr for this paragraph: Essentially, it is quite rare to knock HDB off before Tornadus-T switches and extremely difficult to pressure it via hazards now.
The first paragraph was simply describing how it is difficult to punish Tornadus-T because of its speed and ability. However, there is more to what makes Tornadus-T extremely good and adaptable to fit on most teams. It provides amazing utility via Defog and Knock Off and those are two of the most adaptable moves in the metagame to have. Defog clears terrain, screens, and hazards which is especially notable right now as the Tapus are back in the metagame and Koko and Eleki are common screen setters on HO. Not to mention that Defog lightens the pressure of hazard stacking on your team. Knock Off just weakens the enemy Pokemon by getting rid of their item and is a bit helpful in terms of providing speed control by removing the enemy scarf at times. Scarf is especially getting a bit common in this speed based meta rn with KyuB, Blaziken, Naga, Phero, etc.
There is also a good value in running a Flying-type right now as every other team is carrying a Ground-type Pokemon in order to not get bullied by Eleki. It is always a good thing to have something that can switch into a Ground-type attack (not named Thousand Arrows) freely and then pivot out because of its great speed tier. As for the fourth move slot, Hurricane goes really well as you it deals decent damage because of it being a 110 BP move without factoring in STAB. Taunt can function well in this slot, but without Hurricane, you cannot face Pheromosa directly in a 1v1 as Hurricane allows you to score a kill on it. Pheromosa cannot reliably kill it too because of the investment in HP, though Pheromosa will win in a 1v1 if it carries Triple Axel.
To summarise, the insane support provided by Tornadus-T makes it, in my opinion, one of the best utility Pokemon in the tier right now, and it is easy to form a defensive backbone of the team with Tornadus-T as it provides momentum and support to your side of the field. I would highly recommend you give it a try on your teams if you haven't already.
(side note: I know it gets Nasty Plot this generation now as well, but it hardly fits on a support set, so I refused to mention it.)
@ Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog
- Hurricane
Tornadus-T's selling point to begin with is its insanely good speed tier paired with a decent bulk alongside Regenerator. With a base 121 Speed, it Speed ties +Speed Naganadel and outspeeds a lot of Pokemon in the tier. In past generations, you could punish Tornadus's Regenerator by putting up Stealth Rock, however in this generation, it really is quite difficult to punish Tornadus-T for switching in and out. Heavy-Duty Boots is a blessing for the green genie as it allows it to get in, pull a fast U-turn, and escape, swinging the game's momentum in your favor. There aren't many users faster than Tornadus-T that can knock off HDB before Tornadus-T moves as well, so unless Tornadus-T decides to stay in to Defog or Knock Off, it really is difficult to remove HDB from Tornadus-Therian during a game. As far as I can recall, the four most common ways to Knock Off HDB before Tornadus-T U-turns out are: Weavile (but Weavile would want to click his Ice-type STAB on Tornadus-T, and the Tornadus-T user would probably just manually switch out), Zeraora (same case as Weavile, except with an Plasma Fists), Tornadus-T winning a speed tie against itself (which essentially is a coin flip), and scarfed Knock Off users like Lando-T/Kartana. I should also mention that I haven't seen Zeraora and Weavile being used in any of my DLC 2 games yet.
tl;dr for this paragraph: Essentially, it is quite rare to knock HDB off before Tornadus-T switches and extremely difficult to pressure it via hazards now.
The first paragraph was simply describing how it is difficult to punish Tornadus-T because of its speed and ability. However, there is more to what makes Tornadus-T extremely good and adaptable to fit on most teams. It provides amazing utility via Defog and Knock Off and those are two of the most adaptable moves in the metagame to have. Defog clears terrain, screens, and hazards which is especially notable right now as the Tapus are back in the metagame and Koko and Eleki are common screen setters on HO. Not to mention that Defog lightens the pressure of hazard stacking on your team. Knock Off just weakens the enemy Pokemon by getting rid of their item and is a bit helpful in terms of providing speed control by removing the enemy scarf at times. Scarf is especially getting a bit common in this speed based meta rn with KyuB, Blaziken, Naga, Phero, etc.
There is also a good value in running a Flying-type right now as every other team is carrying a Ground-type Pokemon in order to not get bullied by Eleki. It is always a good thing to have something that can switch into a Ground-type attack (not named Thousand Arrows) freely and then pivot out because of its great speed tier. As for the fourth move slot, Hurricane goes really well as you it deals decent damage because of it being a 110 BP move without factoring in STAB. Taunt can function well in this slot, but without Hurricane, you cannot face Pheromosa directly in a 1v1 as Hurricane allows you to score a kill on it. Pheromosa cannot reliably kill it too because of the investment in HP, though Pheromosa will win in a 1v1 if it carries Triple Axel.
To summarise, the insane support provided by Tornadus-T makes it, in my opinion, one of the best utility Pokemon in the tier right now, and it is easy to form a defensive backbone of the team with Tornadus-T as it provides momentum and support to your side of the field. I would highly recommend you give it a try on your teams if you haven't already.
(side note: I know it gets Nasty Plot this generation now as well, but it hardly fits on a support set, so I refused to mention it.)
On this note, if you REALLY hate Zygarde, go Buzzwole. BU Buzzwole walls the hell out of Zygarde and it's not even bad in this meta game rn. I've been experimenting Buzzwole and it beats all the physical mons available bar the fires and flying. and even then Flying types do not want to eat an ice punch from buzzwole. It also beats KyuB which is nice since I'm so sick of seeing KyuB in team preview and losing easily.Zygarde: This doesn't seem broken right now but that may be because there's a lot of hard hitters going around though. I hate hate hate Glare though because it just Subs until you get paralyzed and DDs as you stare at it helplessly. I just hate hax abuse in general. It's uncompetitive not broken yeah that's the right word. If it wasn't for Glare this would be more than manegeable.
What do you guys think about rain so far? I've been messing around with it the past day and here are my takeaways:
tl;dr
is very good in this meta, 
might be the best Swift Swimmer, and 
has a cool niche on rain
Swampert is definitely one of the best rockers in this meta in general. I started out using the Choice Band set (Liquidation/Earthquake/Superpower/Flip Turn) and was consistently getting 1-2 kills a game with it while checking annoying electric types at the same time. However, I switched to the defensive set with rocks (Earthquake/SR/Toxic/Flip Turn) after struggling to find a consistent rocker for rain (
drained too much momentum, dedicated SR leads were too hard to fit into team building, and rocks on CB wasn't worth it in my eyes because I'd rather attack). So far, I've really liked the defensive set because it has many opportunities to set up rocks, checks/counters many electric types that give rain trouble, baits in bulky grass/water types that wall swift swimmers and hits with toxic, acts as a great pivot + momentum gainer with Flip Turn, and can surprisingly 1v1 many pokemon in a pinch. Overall a surprisingly great addition to the meta.
, , 
Kingdra is certainly a good swift swimmer and I had decent success using a Modest Specs set (Surf/Draco/Hurricane/Flip Turn). While I found this set effective, I did not find it particularly amazing and got tired of being outspeed by fast scarfers, which seem to be pretty common in this fast paced meta (didn't want to switch to Timid and lose the power drop either), so I switched to Barraskewda instead. So far, Barraskewda has not disappointed me much and has been working well as both a wallbreaker for itself and a late game cleaner. The last time I used Barraskewda was actually before Flip Turn was released and I thought the life orb all-out-attacker set was the most effective back then (Liquidation/Close Combat/Psychic Fangs/Crunch), but I've been using the Choice Band set (Liquidation/Close Combat/Aqua Jet/ Flip Turn) so far and really like it. With an Adamant nature, it still outspeeds basically everything bar priority under rain, which again, is really nice in this meta, and hits very hard coming off a + nature base 123 attack. I was initially running Crunch instead of Aqua Jet, but found myself clicking Flip Turn when I suspected Crunch targets (Dragapult, Lati@s) would either switch in or switch out anyway, so Aqua Jet seemed more useful. Speaking of Flip Turn, I find it to be a fantastic move on Swift Swimmers and the fact that it hits so hard on Barraskewda is another pro it has over Kingdra. Finally, I used Omastar for a little while and specifically used the Power Herb, Meteor Beam/Shell Smash/Surf/Ice Beam set. There were some games when this set just plowed through opposing teams and felt really good, but many more where it didn't accomplish much. I think running this Omastar set basically requires another Swift Swimmer to help Omastar break through teams; I had trouble fitting two swift swimmers, Pelipper, and sufficient Rillaboom/electric switch ins (plus rocks/defog and checks for everything else in the meta lol) all onto one team and had more success settling for one swift swimmer instead. That being said, I did not specifically try and build around Omastar and that is probably what you'd need to do to make this set work.
I've been using the Heavy-Duty Boots/Defog set Ruby. described and agree that it is very good. Besides acting as a solid pivot and defogger, Tornadus-T has been a reasonable switch-in to Landorus-I for me and is a good answer for any grass types that annoy rain.
I've found that the Timid Life Orb set of Thunder, Hurricane, Weather Ball, + filler to be incredibly hard for opposing teams to switch into. With all of the pivots that fit well on rain (e.g. U-turn with Pelipper/Tornadus-T, Flip Turn with Barraskweda/Kingra/Swampert) it hasn't been hard for me to get Zapdos in safely, guarantees a kill more often than you might expect. I think Zapdos fits especially well on rain because both Thunder and Hurricane punish common rain answers in water types and grass types respectfully, and Weather Ball blows away any grounds that would otherwise be decent switch ins. That being said, I had trouble finding success with Zapdos until I specifically attempted to build around it. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what move works best in the 4th slot. I've been running Agility which has proven to be useful on rare occasions. Roost seems nice, but I'd almost always rather attack than use it. Pivoting moves such as Volt Switch/U-turn also seem reasonable, but again, I'd still rather be attacking and if these moves aren't doing a lot of damage to whatever switches in, the chip might not be worth the Life Orb recoil (Volt Switch > U-turn for what it's worth because Weather Ball hits grounds). I've thought about Toxic/T-Wave/Heat Wave/Discharge/Charge Beam in this slot too, but am yet to try any of them yet. On paper, 
seems like a similar but possibly better option. It has higher special attack, base 101 speed, volt absorb (which is big), Thunder + Weather Ball as well, and Nasty Plot in addition. However, I think Zapdos is still a better wallbreaker because of how spammable Hurricane is and how great the coverage is between Hurricane/Thunder/Weather Ball. Perhaps Thunderus-T could provide role compression with Volt Absorb and pull off an interesting double dance set or something, however.
I've been running a defensive Pelipper with Scald, Hurricane, Roost, and U-turn. I originally had Knock Off > Hurricane, but the ability to have two STAB moves that do decent damage without investment seems to be working better for me. Interestingly, I feel that this meta is so fast paced that I almost never have an opportunity to Roost and would rather U-turn on a predicted switch to get something else in anyway. With this in mind, using Knock Off or Toxic over Roost may be worth it. However, my logic has been that while I might actually use Knock Off or Toxic more often than Roost, on the rare occasions I choose to Roost, it often makes a great impact on the game in by keeping Pelipper alive for another round of rain which seems just far too important.
Can't say I've used anything else on rain enough to comment on it. I guess I've used (and faced haha)
a lot, but that's because it's a clearly broken 'mon that generates a ton of valuable momentum lol. Overall, I did not face many teams with multiple bulky water/grass types that gave me a ton of trouble. I felt most of the games I lost were because the opponent overwhelmed me before I could overwhelm them, and that seems to be many peoples' experience in this meta regardless of the playstyle they're using.
Here is my favorite replay of the day. In it, and do a good job pressuring the opponent throughout the match. I managed to get up to the high 1500s fooling around, but this replay is from when I was in the mid 1400s. Ironically, I was even facing someone ranked in the 1300s, but I believe it was still a pretty good match.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen8ou-1210456972-0d9xxfhoommjaawgudyc7sh3m83n5v2pw
tl;dr
is very good in this meta, might be the best Swift Swimmer, and has a cool niche on rain Swampert is definitely one of the best rockers in this meta in general. I started out using the Choice Band set (Liquidation/Earthquake/Superpower/Flip Turn) and was consistently getting 1-2 kills a game with it while checking annoying electric types at the same time. However, I switched to the defensive set with rocks (Earthquake/SR/Toxic/Flip Turn) after struggling to find a consistent rocker for rain ( drained too much momentum, dedicated SR leads were too hard to fit into team building, and rocks on CB wasn't worth it in my eyes because I'd rather attack). So far, I've really liked the defensive set because it has many opportunities to set up rocks, checks/counters many electric types that give rain trouble, baits in bulky grass/water types that wall swift swimmers and hits with toxic, acts as a great pivot + momentum gainer with Flip Turn, and can surprisingly 1v1 many pokemon in a pinch. Overall a surprisingly great addition to the meta., , Kingdra is certainly a good swift swimmer and I had decent success using a Modest Specs set (Surf/Draco/Hurricane/Flip Turn). While I found this set effective, I did not find it particularly amazing and got tired of being outspeed by fast scarfers, which seem to be pretty common in this fast paced meta (didn't want to switch to Timid and lose the power drop either), so I switched to Barraskewda instead. So far, Barraskewda has not disappointed me much and has been working well as both a wallbreaker for itself and a late game cleaner. The last time I used Barraskewda was actually before Flip Turn was released and I thought the life orb all-out-attacker set was the most effective back then (Liquidation/Close Combat/Psychic Fangs/Crunch), but I've been using the Choice Band set (Liquidation/Close Combat/Aqua Jet/ Flip Turn) so far and really like it. With an Adamant nature, it still outspeeds basically everything bar priority under rain, which again, is really nice in this meta, and hits very hard coming off a + nature base 123 attack. I was initially running Crunch instead of Aqua Jet, but found myself clicking Flip Turn when I suspected Crunch targets (Dragapult, Lati@s) would either switch in or switch out anyway, so Aqua Jet seemed more useful. Speaking of Flip Turn, I find it to be a fantastic move on Swift Swimmers and the fact that it hits so hard on Barraskewda is another pro it has over Kingdra. Finally, I used Omastar for a little while and specifically used the Power Herb, Meteor Beam/Shell Smash/Surf/Ice Beam set. There were some games when this set just plowed through opposing teams and felt really good, but many more where it didn't accomplish much. I think running this Omastar set basically requires another Swift Swimmer to help Omastar break through teams; I had trouble fitting two swift swimmers, Pelipper, and sufficient Rillaboom/electric switch ins (plus rocks/defog and checks for everything else in the meta lol) all onto one team and had more success settling for one swift swimmer instead. That being said, I did not specifically try and build around Omastar and that is probably what you'd need to do to make this set work. I've been using the Heavy-Duty Boots/Defog set Ruby. described and agree that it is very good. Besides acting as a solid pivot and defogger, Tornadus-T has been a reasonable switch-in to Landorus-I for me and is a good answer for any grass types that annoy rain. I've found that the Timid Life Orb set of Thunder, Hurricane, Weather Ball, + filler to be incredibly hard for opposing teams to switch into. With all of the pivots that fit well on rain (e.g. U-turn with Pelipper/Tornadus-T, Flip Turn with Barraskweda/Kingra/Swampert) it hasn't been hard for me to get Zapdos in safely, guarantees a kill more often than you might expect. I think Zapdos fits especially well on rain because both Thunder and Hurricane punish common rain answers in water types and grass types respectfully, and Weather Ball blows away any grounds that would otherwise be decent switch ins. That being said, I had trouble finding success with Zapdos until I specifically attempted to build around it. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what move works best in the 4th slot. I've been running Agility which has proven to be useful on rare occasions. Roost seems nice, but I'd almost always rather attack than use it. Pivoting moves such as Volt Switch/U-turn also seem reasonable, but again, I'd still rather be attacking and if these moves aren't doing a lot of damage to whatever switches in, the chip might not be worth the Life Orb recoil (Volt Switch > U-turn for what it's worth because Weather Ball hits grounds). I've thought about Toxic/T-Wave/Heat Wave/Discharge/Charge Beam in this slot too, but am yet to try any of them yet. On paper, seems like a similar but possibly better option. It has higher special attack, base 101 speed, volt absorb (which is big), Thunder + Weather Ball as well, and Nasty Plot in addition. However, I think Zapdos is still a better wallbreaker because of how spammable Hurricane is and how great the coverage is between Hurricane/Thunder/Weather Ball. Perhaps Thunderus-T could provide role compression with Volt Absorb and pull off an interesting double dance set or something, however. I've been running a defensive Pelipper with Scald, Hurricane, Roost, and U-turn. I originally had Knock Off > Hurricane, but the ability to have two STAB moves that do decent damage without investment seems to be working better for me. Interestingly, I feel that this meta is so fast paced that I almost never have an opportunity to Roost and would rather U-turn on a predicted switch to get something else in anyway. With this in mind, using Knock Off or Toxic over Roost may be worth it. However, my logic has been that while I might actually use Knock Off or Toxic more often than Roost, on the rare occasions I choose to Roost, it often makes a great impact on the game in by keeping Pelipper alive for another round of rain which seems just far too important.Can't say I've used anything else on rain enough to comment on it. I guess I've used (and faced haha)
a lot, but that's because it's a clearly broken 'mon that generates a ton of valuable momentum lol. Overall, I did not face many teams with multiple bulky water/grass types that gave me a ton of trouble. I felt most of the games I lost were because the opponent overwhelmed me before I could overwhelm them, and that seems to be many peoples' experience in this meta regardless of the playstyle they're using.Here is my favorite replay of the day. In it,
and do a good job pressuring the opponent throughout the match. I managed to get up to the high 1500s fooling around, but this replay is from when I was in the mid 1400s. Ironically, I was even facing someone ranked in the 1300s, but I believe it was still a pretty good match.https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen8ou-1210456972-0d9xxfhoommjaawgudyc7sh3m83n5v2pw
Last edited:
Katy
Banned deucer.
I think Naganadel is one of the most broken out of the drops. It has only less than a handful of checks being Heatran, Blissey, Chansey, and specially defensive oriented Tyranitar. I personally think that naganadel shouldn't be there and its clear why, not only has it only less of a handful of checks, but it can be paired up with something like a Blaziken or Pheromosa to take on these checks as they themselves have a true firepower on their own. Blaziken and Pheromosa can take care of the likes of Heatran and moreover Blissey, Chansey, and SpD Tran. They make up for great partners in this aspect and losing the Heavy-Duty Boots or Eviolite makes it, that after a Nasty Plot and Hazard Damage Naganadel can be a threat in its own right against Blissey and Chansey especially after a Boost due to Nasty Plot in conjunction with Life Orb.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 419-493 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Naganadel Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 305-360 (42.7 - 50.4%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Chansey: 516-608 (73.3 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Naganadel Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Chansey: 378-446 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Naganadel Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 305-360 (42.7 - 50.4%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Chansey: 516-608 (73.3 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Naganadel Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Chansey: 378-446 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Naganadel is too much for OU as its offensive capabilities are just too strong and the sheer firepower is just absurd.
Is a really strong addition with its Speed Boost ability but it has the 4MMS issue and has issues to break through many Pokemon, but I think once the metagame changes it could be seens as a problematic Pokemon. It can be held off by Toxapex if it doesnt run Erathquake on the Swords Dance-Set, it gets checked by Zygarde and also Landorus-Therian, but nontheless its ability in Speed Boost is a bit too strong and checking it might get problematic and Blaziken can really claim things on its own even with the 4MMS.
Oh dear, that boi is just way too strong for the OU-Tier as it can just U-turn out with its Choice Band-Set or just blows holes in the opposing team with its many many coverage options in Iron Head, Extreme Speed, Flamethrower / Blaze Kick, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and many more options to have coverage. I think the main issue with Genesect is, that scouting its Set is really problematic on its own right. Furthermore Gensect can snowball pretty fast after a boost with Shift Gear, which allows it to clean up teams easily in the lategame. Genesect imho doesn't belong in the OU-Tier and I view it as an unhealthy presence.
That boi claims lifes with Dragon Dance, Icicle Spear, Fusion Bolt and Substitute-Set, which it can use pretty comfortably, especially behind Dual-Screens / Aurora Veil teams where its already good Bulk gets strengthened further making revengekilling it rather problematic.
It can use Earth Power as well, to bypass the likes of Magearna, Heatran, and Rotom-Wash / Rotom-Heat due to its ability in Teravolt, which allows it to bypass Levitate from them and then it nails them with E-Power. Kyurem-Black is a very strong and in my eyes unhealthy addition to the OU-Tier and nothing changed for it.
While this Poke has amazing coverage and solid speed-tier alongside a great typing, with Sludge Wave, Psychic, Rock Slide, Earth Power, Knock Off, U-turn, Calm Mind to strengthen its amazing special firepower coupled with a decent bulk, I can see it being suspected tested as I truly view it as the least broken out of the Pokemon for now as I feel Naganadel, genesect and Blaziken as the most problematic Pokemon currently. Not sure how Lando-I will turn out as soon as these elements are removed, but in my opinion its a super great Wallbreaker but I think its the least broken out of them.
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Double ghost offense looks like a pretty terrifying archetype from my experience so far.
Choiced Spectrier is one of the better late-game cleaners in the format, only needing to take a single KO before it steamrolls most teams barring Sucker Punchers. Its biggest issue is that with zero coverage options, it needs Tyranitar / Mandibuzz / Blissey removed before it can even attempt to mount a snowball.
I've been using Spectrier a lot with either Trick + Specs, or NP variants of Gengar, which does a super good job of forcing damage or a Choice lock on these Pokemon and preventing them from acting as Spectrier answers in the late-game. Will-o + Hex Dragapult is decent too. I've not tried Blacephalon or Aegislash but I would imagine these would also make incredible partners for Spectrier as well.
I think there's maybe even an argument for triple Ghost being ridiculously good. Something like Aegislash + Trick Blacephalon + Spectrier all share maybe 3-4 counters between them in the entire tier, and therefore become unhandleable in combination. Biggest issue is making sure Spectrier doesn't reverse-sweep you!
Choiced Spectrier is one of the better late-game cleaners in the format, only needing to take a single KO before it steamrolls most teams barring Sucker Punchers. Its biggest issue is that with zero coverage options, it needs Tyranitar / Mandibuzz / Blissey removed before it can even attempt to mount a snowball.
I've been using Spectrier a lot with either Trick + Specs, or NP variants of Gengar, which does a super good job of forcing damage or a Choice lock on these Pokemon and preventing them from acting as Spectrier answers in the late-game. Will-o + Hex Dragapult is decent too. I've not tried Blacephalon or Aegislash but I would imagine these would also make incredible partners for Spectrier as well.
I think there's maybe even an argument for triple Ghost being ridiculously good. Something like Aegislash + Trick Blacephalon + Spectrier all share maybe 3-4 counters between them in the entire tier, and therefore become unhandleable in combination. Biggest issue is making sure Spectrier doesn't reverse-sweep you!
It's beyond frustrating to play man. The second Lando-I comes in all the momentum in the game shifts instantly to its user. Literally had to slap an HDB Cresselia to not get wrecked by this thing (as a primarily balance user).
Also has much better bulk than you'd expect, can't just revenge it comfortably.
Not to mention being able to play around its "checks" with Knock Off and U-turn
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Some thoughts on the new meta:
In addition to all the reasons people have stated above, it's a mythical. Ban it.
It's a box legend, ban it - although honestly specially-based KB was a bigger threat, and that's purely because of Earth Power, whereas so far I've only seen one physical KB running that so it doesn't get stopgapped by steel types.
Great to see Swampert making a comeback - it has one of the best defensive typings in the game and it's comforting to know that it completely walls
so hard that I've seen one running... Swift of all moves. Flip Turn is a nice addition to its movepool, but I find a utility set with Scald, Toxic, Roar, Stealth Rock to be slightly more versatile as it can do more against most Pokemon and prevent the opponent gaining too much momentum, especially Trick Room teams where you can really have some fun disrupting those.
Speaking of...
Although its movepool is pretty underwhelming, it does actually have some versatility to it. It can trap, set up dual screens (and does a really good job of it being the new speed king) as well as clear hazards, and it has volt switch to pivot as well. Some say its broken as a wallbreaker, but I don't really see any point running it as such, as any ground type is all the opponent needs to stop it.
Part of a box legend trio. Ban it! But seriously this thing doesn't have enough reliable checks to stay in the meta, or at least that's how I'm seeing it right now. And even if it does, it abuses the ever-living shit out of RNG while also having plenty of bulk to avoid its sub being broken, so it has even less viable checks. Not fun.
In addition to all the reasons people have stated above, it's a mythical. Ban it.
It's a box legend, ban it - although honestly specially-based KB was a bigger threat, and that's purely because of Earth Power, whereas so far I've only seen one physical KB running that so it doesn't get stopgapped by steel types.
Great to see Swampert making a comeback - it has one of the best defensive typings in the game and it's comforting to know that it completely walls
Speaking of...
Although its movepool is pretty underwhelming, it does actually have some versatility to it. It can trap, set up dual screens (and does a really good job of it being the new speed king) as well as clear hazards, and it has volt switch to pivot as well. Some say its broken as a wallbreaker, but I don't really see any point running it as such, as any ground type is all the opponent needs to stop it.
Part of a box legend trio. Ban it! But seriously this thing doesn't have enough reliable checks to stay in the meta, or at least that's how I'm seeing it right now. And even if it does, it abuses the ever-living shit out of RNG while also having plenty of bulk to avoid its sub being broken, so it has even less viable checks. Not fun.