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I haven't really seen much discussion of the big boy and I wanted to know what everyone thinks about it and if it should stay in the tier. I've been enjoying the usual band sets now that AV isn't as useful with the quick drops. Double Iron Bash breaking subs and lead sashes is so clutch. I think it's fine now, you get rewarded for prediction and bully stuff that you are faster than.
Melmetal @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
- Superpower
The thing about KyuB is that you absolutely aren't walling the DDance set, but it shouldn't be sweeping you unless you've badly misplayed. It's got decent bulk, but a terrible defensive typing, it's rocks weak, and it's base speed is <100. You should have at least one, possibly two things that outspeed it when it's at +1, and various chip should guarantee your scarfer can get the kill. I'm not saying it's well balanced, but generally when DDance has swept me it's been a situation where any good setup mon could have done so. That's not QB-worthy.
Kyub's other sets are what I think will push it over the edge. Not in the current meta, because stall is a lost cause with everything we're seeing currently, but when stall starts coming back I can easily see a Sub/DClaw/Icicle Spear/DDance set 6-0ing literally every potential stall team.
The thing about KyuB is that you absolutely aren't walling the DDance set, but it shouldn't be sweeping you unless you've badly misplayed. It's got decent bulk, but a terrible defensive typing, it's rocks weak, and it's base speed is <100. You should have at least one, possibly two things that outspeed it when it's at +1, and various chip should guarantee your scarfer can get the kill. I'm not saying it's well balanced, but generally when DDance has swept me it's been a situation where any good setup mon could have done so. That's not QB-worthy.
Kyub's other sets are what I think will push it over the edge. Not in the current meta, because stall is a lost cause with everything we're seeing currently, but when stall starts coming back I can easily see a Sub/DClaw/Icicle Spear/DDance set 6-0ing literally every potential stall team.
Not fully indicative of how broken Kyube is, but here is a nice replay showcasing how Kyube can flex its great bulk to go ham on the opposing side. Dude had 3 Steel types on standby, I had a bad matchup overall, and I think I was the worst player and even then, with a few smart plays, (and a choke on not immediately harding into Kartana if you ask me) I was able to secure the sweep. If you aren't packing a Buzzwole or Melmetal, I do not think one should ever think they have Kyurem-B 100% covered.
I definitely dont like QB'ing Naganadel over Kyurem-b and Landorus-i, but I think Zygarde getting more ban votes than Lando/Kyu (only 1 fewer than their combined total) is way more suspect tbh. Not sure I understand that at all.
I definitely dont like QB'ing Naganadel over Kyurem-b and Landorus-i, but I think Zygarde getting more ban votes than Lando/Kyu (only 1 fewer than their combined total) is way more suspect tbh. Not sure I understand that at all.
Well, you have to keep in mind the interests of the council. They would look rash banning all of the broken Pokemon at once, so I think they prioritized what they personally felt was the most pressing issue at the time. Genesect is a gimme, it shit all over the entire tier with no effort. The discussion of which is more broken between Kyurem-B, Naganadel, Zygarde, and (even though you didn't mention it) Pheromosa is highly debatable, but it looks like the council took into mind Naganadel's tendency to snowball with minimal counterplay as their top priority. I am actually happy they only banned 2 even though there's additional Pokemon that clearly have no place in OU, as banning a giant slate of Pokemon all at once can lead to a slew of tedious retests that wouldn't be worth the time. I don't think the mentioned mons have long left in the tier, but it's worth giving them a shot for a bit longer.
Will we get to hear council members reasonings for why they voted the way they did? I'm particularly interested in the reasoning for Kyu-B and Lando not getting banned as to me they seem clearly busted. That said I'm not the best player by any means so I'm curious if I'm missing something big that stops them from being broken.
Will we get to hear council members reasonings for why they voted the way they did? I'm particularly interested in the reasoning for Kyu-B and Lando not getting banned as to me they seem clearly busted. That said I'm not the best player by any means so I'm curious if I'm missing something big that stops them from being broken.
Furthermore Finchinator made a great video about Naganadel + Genesect Ban and also said something about the rest of the Pokemon on his youtube channel, which you can find here:
Hope this helps you to understand it a little bit better.
The thing about KyuB is that you absolutely aren't walling the DDance set, but it shouldn't be sweeping you unless you've badly misplayed. It's got decent bulk, but a terrible defensive typing, it's rocks weak, and it's base speed is <100. You should have at least one, possibly two things that outspeed it when it's at +1, and various chip should guarantee your scarfer can get the kill. I'm not saying it's well balanced, but generally when DDance has swept me it's been a situation where any good setup mon could have done so. That's not QB-worthy.
Kyub's other sets are what I think will push it over the edge. Not in the current meta, because stall is a lost cause with everything we're seeing currently, but when stall starts coming back I can easily see a Sub/DClaw/Icicle Spear/DDance set 6-0ing literally every potential stall team.
Who cares about its defensive typing when HDB exists (It's just a wonderful item on it).
Kyurem only needs four moves: substitute, fusion bolt, icicle spear, dd.
Because of its huge bulk it can use substitute on weak attacks and proceed to do multiple DDs.
Its ability is certainly good, but it's not what pushes kyurem over the edge, what makes kyu-b banworthy are its huge stats coupled with its offensive typing/movepool, only melmetal can reliably check it but melmetal is easily chipped during the game, magearna can't comfortably take boosted fusion bolts (especially with terrain support), physical def ferrothorn is easily chipped too and can't comfortably take boosted icicle spears, the rest of the tier can only revenge kill it at the best.
This thing doesn't belong to OU, it never belonged to it in this gen.
I struggle to believe anyone complaining about the Naganadel ban actually played the tier much, to be entirely honest. It was one of the most ridiculous Pokemon OU has ever seen in generations. Nasty Plot + 3A was ludicrous, essentially forcing Heatran, a fringe set on a different Steel, or teams to go full-on fat. If you used Heatran on every team, I guess I get it; Heatran giving a good answer to both Naganadel and Genesect was a convenient way to patch-up builds after all, but even then if you took a second and realized the consequences of building otherwise, then you’d likely reach the same conclusion about Naganadel as everyone ale. There’s a reason why it was unanimous, and that reason should be pretty clear. This type of restriction is never healthy and the same type of logic is applied to most bans honestly.
Anyway, I provided my thoughts on just about everything in a prior post I just hyperlinked, including how I voted. And the entire vote slate is posted in the thread, too. I will say that since then, I’ve come to the opinion that Choice Band Melmetal is insane though — finally got around to using it. It can 2HKO Toxapex, Celesteela, and other bulky resists, which is unheard of honestly. I think it may be balanced right now in such a hectic metagame and I have a lot of fun using it to punish specific things, so let’s not write it off quite yet, but one must be careful playing around it and it’s sheer strength and we should absolutely pay more attention to it. It has been neglected since release imo.
I struggle to believe anyone complaining about the Naganadel ban actually played the tier much, to be entirely honest. It was one of the most ridiculous Pokemon OU has ever seen in generations. Nasty Plot + 3A was ludicrous, essentially forcing Heatran, a fringe set on a different Steel, or teams to go full-on fat. If you used Heatran on every team, I guess I get it; Heatran giving a good answer to both Naganadel and Genesect was a convenient way to patch-up builds after all, but even then if you took a second and realized the consequences of building otherwise, then you’d likely reach the same conclusion about Naganadel as everyone ale. There’s a reason why it was unanimous, and that reason should be pretty clear. This type of restriction is never healthy and the same type of logic is applied to most bans honestly.
Anyway, I provided my thoughts on just about everything in a prior post I just hyperlinked, including how I voted. And the entire vote slate is posted in the thread, too. I will say that since then, I’ve come to the opinion that Choice Band Melmetal is insane though — finally got around to using it. It can 2HKO Toxapex, Celesteela, and other bulky resists, which is unheard of honestly. I think it may be balanced right now in such a hectic metagame and I have a lot of fun using it to punish specific things, so let’s not write it off quite yet, but one must be careful playing around it and it’s sheer strength and we should absolutely pay more attention to it. It has been neglected since release imo.
Pretty happy with the Genesect and Naganadel bans, as they were easily the worst Pokemon to deal with, though I'm surprised none of Landorus, Zygarde, or Kyurem-B managed to reach a supermajority. Those Pokemon are broken in my opinion and I reckon they will definitely be leaving sooner than later anyway.
Moving on, I'd like to talk about a Pokemon I've been playing around with.
Latios is a really good wallbreaker. In a metagame without Pursuit, the STAB combination of Dragon and Psychic is very strong, especially when backed up by access to Mystical Fire in order to overwhelm Steel-types like Corviknight and Celesteela. Besides Blissey and Chansey, Latios really doesn't have any good checks. Heatran should be a sufficient check on paper, but unfortunately it gets overwhelmed quite quickly by Draco Meteor + Stealth Rock, especially if you manage to remove its Leftovers with a Pokemon like Knock Off Clefable.
Latios is a phenomenal wallbreaker, but I do take issue with its lacking defensive utility in comparison to Latias. The drop in bulk is very significant; Latios is not a good check to Swords Dance Blaziken, whereas Latias is very sufficient, and it is also a much worse pivot into Landorus, as you can see by the calcs below:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 289-341 (96 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Latias: 263-309 (84.8 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 148-175 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 129-152 (41.6 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This is an issue I've been running into a fair amount while trying to use Latios: Latias's bulk is very significant. However, the issue with Latias in turn is that it is a much less convincing wallbreaker; it does not 2HKO Corviknight and Celesteela, has a harder time wearing down Heatran, you get the point. I'm pretty curious to see how other people have been going about this.
With the bans of Genesect and Naganadel, I want to share my thoughts about the Pokemon which I believe is the most problematic one in the tier right now, which is Zygarde.
Ever since its introduction, Zygarde has always been a hot topic and a fan favorite Pokemon. We have seen nearly a half of generation revolving around this Pokemon, some heated debates and basically metagame being shaped around it, seeing sets like Hidden Power Ice Tangrowth ( Which could be used for Landorus-T as well, but the main offender was Zygarde as non-Fly z Landorus-T couldn't touch to Tangrowth anyway) and Curse Light Metal Scizor into Mega Scizor, to go against Coil sets. Transitioning to the current generation, Zygarde lost a significant amount of counterplay against it, while its qualities pretty much stayed the same.
1- The Loss of Hidden Power
This is perhaps the biggest and most influential loss that benefits Zygarde. Hidden Power Ice was a very common and popular move on various Pokemon, such as Tangrowth, Landorus-T, Keldeo, and some Electric types such as Tapu Koko and Thundurus. Tangrowth perhaps can be seen as the best Zygarde check, due to everything else being vulnerable Thousand Arrows but the lack of Hidden Power caused Tangrowth to lose 1 on 1 matchup, thus Tangrowth is forced now to run Grass Knot just to break Zygarde's Substitute to not auto lose against Toxic sets which I find to be extremely restrictive. Nearly the entire metagame is weak against Thousand Arrows with the exception of a few Grass-types that are vulnerable to Toxic or are blocked by partners such as Corviknight/Amoonguss.
2- The Loss of Z moves
Zygarde is surprisingly bulky, with a 108 / 120 / 95 spread. This bulk provides excellent setup opportunities against many utility Pokemon and some offensive Pokemon that cant normally 2-3HKO it. Zygarde was somewhat manageable when Z moves existed because the immediate damage was enough to force Zygarde out or secure a kill on it safely. This is no longer the case since this immediate damage is lost and the sheer bulk allows Zygarde to setup against even offensive threats occasionally and has good backup partners in Toxic Spikes and Aurora Veil to ease the job. You may use the argument that "Zygarde also was a decent Pokemon to use Z moves with?", which I would agree but the gains overweight the losses pretty easily.
3- Recent Bans
Nothing much to say about this one, Zygarde lost 2 offensive checks when Genesect and Naganadel got banned. It feared Ice Beam / U-turn mind games against Genesect and Naganadel just threatened it with Draco Meteor if it's not behind a Substitute.
4- Its Sheer Bulk
I briefly mentioned this in section 2, but I can explain this in a bit more detailed here that Zygarde is ridiculously bulky. While running a bulky spread, you can setup Substitute safely against too many utility Pokemon, some examples being Corviknight, Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, Toxapex, Tangrowth (Explained above on how this is forced to run Grass Knot now), many Electric-type Pokemon, Heatran, and its big HP stat allows 101 HP Substitutes that can break through Chansey and Blissey. This bulk further enhanced by Veil and entry hazards, makes Zygarde very prominent.
5- Versatility
Zygarde isn't limited to one set. All it ever needs is having Thousand Arrows in its moveset, and you are free to customize the remaining moves as you want. Being unable to predict the set of Zygarde can be pretty costly, and it's difficult to tell that from the preview. It's not easy to revenge kill for having access to Extremespeed, can run Band sets with good coverage allowing it to hit literally every Pokemon due to properties of Thousand Arrow, can run a plethora of Substitute sets, such as Sub+Tox/Glare/DD/Coil/Protect/Dragon Tail, and can run Dragon Dance with 3 Attacks on a HO team.
Overall I am quite annoyed that I'm forced to run 1 or 2 of its checks in every team to have an opportunity at beating it, and it is just dumb easy to support Zygarde. I think it deserves to be banned, a Pokemon with incredible Bulk, good typing, lots of set options, good coverage, and team options, and hopefully we won't wait for half of a generation for that to happen.
Yeah Zygarde is very versatile and you didn't even mention that it could break through things like Tangrowth with Skitter Smack provided you knocked off their helmet beforehand. Heck, with 188 HP EVs giving you 101 HP Substitutes and 44 Special Defense EVs with a Careful Nature, your Substitutes actually live Tangrowth Grass Knot after you hit it with a Skitter Smack, so if you manage to take it's helmet off then you have yourself a decent path to a Coil sweep that Tangrowth will not be able to stop.
This is like saying that "just use Heatran against Naganadel and you'll be fine". Just because a Pokemon have a counter doesn't mean that it's not broken. I personally also doesn't want Zygarde banned but this is not really a legitamite reason to keep it in the tier (not to mention that Zygarde is extremely versatile and Porygon doesn't like Toxic or being trapped by Thousand Waves on the switch if it doesn't have teleport.).
I am a filthy casual VGC player. I am thrilled with the Genesect and Naganadel bans. Naganadel was most ridiculous OU pokemon. Let's say you have Hydreigon who is a good wallbreakers. However, you give it poison typing instead of dark typing, higher speed base and Beast Boost ability. Not only that, it is a balance breaker that rips apart offence team while it's difficult to revenge kill and counter. You have Naganadel and it's basically Hydreigon on steroid. That cause forced to slap Heatran on to every team because it's only Naganadel counter. Unfortunately, you can pressure Heatran with hazard stack, U-Turn/Volt Switch and many things so Naganadel can beat Heatran later. The teambuilding is heavily straining as long as Naganadel is in the tier, so quickban Naganadel is the right call if we want a healthy metagame.
This metagame pretty much tells me that the loss of hidden power and Z moves still have negative implications. While certain matchups are more feasible since you don't have to worry about coverage like HP Fire and Ice or even the nuke button, those same matchups are now problematic cuz now you need to run certain checks and answers. I think Zygarde is the perfect example as to how a generational shift can initially downplay certain mons with the aforementioned mechanics yet still perform well even without them.
Yo, so Zygarde has been mentioned quite a bit, so I might as well give my opinion on the big snake.
I definitely agree that Zygarde is a very problematic Pokemon right now and something that I want dealt with. I feel the main reason why Zygarde, in my eyes, is so hard to deal with is probably the fact that it bypass its checks and counters even easier than it did last gen because of the lack of HP Ice. Why is this an issue? Because Zygarde is incredibly bulky and the only move it really needs is Thousand Arrows, meaning its incredibly customisable and very easy to use. Now I want to go over the main reason I feel its broken. It can bypass its checks and counters with almost no support or just simply on its own depending on the moves.
Tangrowth can potentially win, well not really because there isn't any HP Ice, and it can lose to SubToxic, or SubProtect Zygarde if there is Toxic Spikes support, not only that but its hard to fit right now. Clefable can lose to SubGlare if the paralysis chance isn't in its favour. Pokemon that outspeed and can potentially KO it like Pheromosa and Landorus-I cannot switch into Glare sets or CB. Get the idea, Zygarde is able to beat everything because its sheer amount of sets and variants make Zygarde incredibly straining in my eyes, because of that I cannot see it really lasting in OU, it simply has too many tools for the metagame there's a lack of Pokemon that can really prevent it from abusing a ton of others. With all of this, I am in favour of this being banned.
_ _ _
So now with that of the way, so I want to touch on a Pokemon that not only is one of the biggest winners to both bans, but something I feel now fits incredibly well in this hectic metagame, Clefable:
Right now, I feel Clefable is at a great place even with all of this offense running around. Its ability to check some of the most potent Pokemon right now like Zygarde, Kyurem-B and Pheromosa makes it a very splashable Pokemon again because its typing is very useful right now especially with Genesect and Naganadel gone, which I feel were the main reasons for its lack of usage. I feel Thunder Wave right now is considerably better than Knock Off right now because its able to cripple stuff like Pheromosa, Heatran, Tornadus-T and Magearna is incredibly valuable for teams that tend to hit hard, now I feel offensive teams are better because Naganadel and Genesect are gone, however they were also some of the most dangerous Pokemon for balance too, especially Naganadel without a Heatran, and Clefable is one of the most splashable balance mons. Overall I feel Clefable is back in business as a fantastic defensive mon and I feel it has more opportunities to fit onto teams since its qualities have a more defined spot in the metagame right now.
But how do you guys feel? Do you think Zygarde is as problematic as people think it is? Do you think there are Pokemon more problematic than it? Other than Clefable, what else do you think has gotten a ton better from these bans? Would love to know your thoughts.
This is like saying that "just use Heatran against Naganadel and you'll be fine". Just because a Pokemon have a counter doesn't mean that it's not broken. I personally also doesn't want Zygarde banned but this is not really a legitamite reason to keep it in the tier (not to mention that Zygarde is extremely versatile and Porygon doesn't like Toxic or being trapped by Thousand Waves on the switch if it doesn't have teleport.).
zygarde doesn't run thousand waves. p2 shouldn't have problems 1v1ing zygarde as long as you can break their subs. this doesn't really matter tho because of how p2 is only really common on one archetype, trick room, where it is used more as a pivot and tr setter than a defensive wall. you're saying the right things for the wrong reason.
zygarde doesn't run thousand waves. p2 shouldn't have problems 1v1ing zygarde as long as you can break their subs. this doesn't really matter tho because of how p2 is only really common on one archetype, trick room, where it is used more as a pivot and tr setter than a defensive wall. you're saying the right things for the wrong reason.
I run thousand waves lol. Got drawn to the thousand waves Zygod set in USUM Ubers and loved it and I tried to carry it over. Maybe it isn't good but it works for me.
As for the other things... you're right. Thanks for that
Zygarde can also run sub/ glare/ thousand arrows/ (protect or coil) very viably to beat Porygon 2 in a vacuum anyways. Just get a glare on the switch and you'll be able to substall their ice beams in most situations. In addition, Pory2 is kind of strapped for moveslots on TR anyways as it needs TR and teleport and for the remaining moves:
shadow ball, recover, then ice beam?/ toxic?
I don't play using TR too much but making you not 6-0'd by spectrier or having recovery seems a lot more important to me than being able to provide a shaky check to Zygarde.
But yeah I also agree with all the above posters strongly Zygarde is a stupid mon and hopefully gets banned soon.
going over the spread first, 56 Spa evs allow you to ohko defensive Lando-t and 56 spe lets you outspeed 4 spe defensive, which is pretty easy to take from Spdef since its so massive. The main benefit of this mon over pretty much any other form of hazard removal is it sits on and pp stalls weak rockers like Clefable and Hippo while beating Lando-Incarn without Rock Slide and regular Kyurem very reliably. Sub allows you to avoid status and PP stall super effective hits, similar to pretty much every other Sub+Roost mon. Freeze-Dry is the stab of choice, forcing out Bulky Waters and only being resisted by Steels and other Ices, meaning its deceptively difficult to switch into.
Problem is, well, its still an Articuno. It cant come in hard on Clef because of Knock, Knock in general bodies it so it can't really come in alot in general, it can't even begin to contest Heatran, Rock moves turn it to dust, etc. Could you make it work if you really tried? Yea, of course, but is it overall worth using? I dont think so, in the long run.
going over the defensive set first, the spread allows you to tank 2 Lando-Incarn Sludge Waves and 2 4 spa HDB Pheromosa Ice Beams from full and pp stall it with Pressure or just force it to predict. Zapdos is a great wall and solid Defogger with the coveted ability to punish U-turn with static. Discharge+heat wave is awfully difficult to switch into and allows you to beat Ferrothorn, really this hasn't changed a whole lot from last gen. Boots are a godsent and allow you to play a lot more recklessly when you don't have to worry about 25% being knocked off your health to defog.
Most notably, Zapdos checks non Gunk Cinderace, Melmetal, Pheromosa, Rillaboom, Tapu Bulu, Dragonite, Kartana, SD Crawdaunt, Torn-T, annoys Victini, counters non Rock Slide Drill, and spams para VS Blissey-less teams to remain relatively active. Pressure dominates passive rockers expectedly, making it great for stally builds, but Static is extremely valuable for diswading making contact with Zapdos, which is quite amazing in its own right.
The Offensive set, on the other hand, turns Zapdos into an extremely deadly wallbreaker under rain, only being walled by the Blobs and Tyranitar, which are often under huge amounts of pressure by Rain teams regardless. Not only that, but Zapdos has great defensive attributes compared to its most obvious competition, Thundurus/Thundy-T, that being greater overall bulk for checking Grasses more reliably, and Roost to remain healthy over longer periods. If you can support Zapdos' vulnerability to huge Spdef walls, it's great at tearing apart Bulky Offense and frailer Balances, pretty much by itself.
Not exactly a surprise but yea Zapdos is good and im pretty confident it'll cement itself as a great Balance/Stall mon.
My favorite of the bunch, Moltres got two big buffs in Scorching Sands to directly hit Heatran, instead of relying on PP stall, and of course HDB to avoid hazards. The absolute biggest benefit of this mon is that its a defogger that actually forces out and defogs on Heatran, which is definitely not something you'll find in other mon besides sets that exist to counter 2-3 mons like Spdef Dragonite. Especially with Gliscor not existing, this is extremely valuable and unique by itself, but of course that's not all Moltres does. Flame Body Punishes U-turns, which is always good, Pressure PP stalls Heatran to really lock it down for Stall-y teams, Flamethrower torches everything but Dragons and Waters, Scorching Sands spreads annoying burns to said bulky waters and hits Grounded Fires hard, and Defog allows you to capitalize on forcing out Rocker Heatran.
The spread listed is what I arrived at as the most helpful, as it allows you to 2hko Spdef Heatran with Scorching Sands with rocks up (50% without), OHKO and outspeed Ada Rillaboom 87.5% of the time, 2hko +1 Offensive Magearna with rocks up (50%~ without) and the leftovers EVs are dumped into Spdef to live 1 +2 offensive Torn-T Hurricane 80%+ of the time. This mon checks Blaziken, SD Rillaboom, Heatran, non Rock Slide Drill, and Pheromosa.
It probably won't not stay OU or anything but its a pretty unique mon that I can see fitting specific builds quite well.
While I was writing this, the Zyg hate really started rolling in and I despise that mon so I might as well touch on it.
I cannot exaggerate how much I want this mon to go, Coil Sub Glare/Toxic and CB combine to have pretty much no solid counterplay, and its so fat that it can take most super effective hits like nothing unless they're extremely powerful (LO latios Draco), which is quite annoying when Genesect is gone to just Revenge kill everything you're weak to, so using fatter teams is alot more appealing, which Zygarde abuses endlessly. Fuck this pokemon, pretty much my least favorite thing still in the tier.
Barraskewda under rain kills almost anything in the meta. The only things that really can wall it are pex/ferro, but pex is not very common, as there are very good electrics atm. And if you're running 3 or 4 flip turn/volt switch/u-turn users, usually everything can force a switch into this and get 2 or 3 mons dead before rain. Also it gets cc wtf
A off-meta pick that I think is very good for rain:
You could literally play this mon with steam eruption only and it would still be good. Its so good under rain, and even out of rain it threatens most mons
Even with Lando-I’s own RP set creeping the forme toward another probable ban, DD Lando-T is especially good in its own right and I think it’ll shine more if/when the former is gone. Same great typing and movepool, but far better bulk, Lefties and Intimidate gives it the option to bluff a defensive set and soft check things early. Thanks to Koko + Eleki spam everywhere, the return of Heatran and no more random HP Ice, it’s free real estate for Lando. 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe is a somewhat nitpicky EV spread, but it does keep Lando’s HP stat odd while retaining a Leftovers number (if you run it) and allow opposing offensive Lando-T to U-turn into a should-be offensive check as you Rock Polish on the switch.
Scarf Pheromosa, Rain, Ice Shard & Aqua Jet mons and other revenge killers have to become more common because Scarf Dragapult—currently the only “meta” mon that outspeeds Lando at +2–now has to run Hydro Pump to revenge Lando, as Lando survives a Modest Draco after SR:
252+ SpA Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 234-276 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
