Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[bb skarm]

I gotta agree with Incineroar being a usable mon. Down in UU it’s considered one of the most splashable mons for any team and it’s a ridiculously good intimidate pivot. Up here, it gives a lot of teams a hard time because it can switch into an attack and pressure the opponent into either having their item knocked off or becoming weaker with Parting Shot. In this meta it actually checks a lot of mons on the special side. Spectrier is a huge one obviously. Gives rillaboom a really hard time with intimidate and can do a ton with Flare Blitz or pivot out again. Blacephelon isn’t the most common mon atm but hates seeing this thing. Dragapult can somewhat dent it but also OHKOed with knock off. It’s really got a lot of utility in one slot and I can totally see myself sneaking it on to a team or two. It’s bulky as shit and intimidate is one of the best ability in the games, even if you’re not checking everything you can use it as a last ditch effort to switch in and lower another mon’s attack.

Sample set:



Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Flare Blitz
- Parting Shot
- Toxic

Pretty fun and easy set to use. A really cool thing about Incineroar is that it’s main STAB, Knock Off, has great utility and actually still hits pretty hard simultaneously, almost to the point where it’s annoying for really any mon to switch into this thing. I also really like Parting Shot on this thing - if you’re running it on more offensive builds, it opens up SO many opportunities for a breaker to come in and wreck havoc or if it’s later in the game for a setup sweeper to start setting up. In terms of actually using it, Id think about using it just like you would Lando-T - switching into mons that really don’t want to deal with it or don’t want their attack lowered. Spam Knock Off as much as you can, like I said with STAB it does respectable damage and removing items is a huge key to winning really any game. If your opponent has a mon like Spectrier sitting in the back don’t give this thing up too early because it has no recovery and really makes spectriers life hard. The speed EVs creep corvi btw. Overall a fun set that does so much in one slot.

Incine has huge competition from the aforementioned Lando-T and understandably - lando-t has rocks, STAB EQ, a better offensive presence, and also intimidate. When it comes to trying to justify using incineroar you really primarily need to be evaluating your weakness to spectrier aegi etc. as well as smaller things like emergency checking Kyu-B and dragapult. It’s a situational niche mon, but it can definitely be plugged in sometimes for Lando-T and be a solid pivot.

Incine also obviously has fantastic synergy with the Pex, as pex can switch into its fighting/water weaknesses and incine can pivot back in for psychic attacks (although they do share a ground weakness). The only real issue I have with it is no recovery is really annoying so you have to pair it with like teleport clef or something, which can make your team a little stally if you’re running Pex too. But overall a niche, usable mon in this metagame where offensive pokemon are running rampant.

 

[AM]

I feel like we should only have this zama discussion when we get the bans for the broken stuff in the meta rn. It might change and make zama overwhelming when we get rid of some stuff so I dont think its worth doing it rn.

Have yall had any sucess with g-zapdos? Maybe I'm just bad at teambuilding but I never really know where to fit it or if its worth using it in this meta rn. Its certainly not worth in most cases when you just want to use k-zapdos

G-Zap works on webs. In most other cases the slot can be used for something else but I think it works best on that archetype pair it with some additional breakers to overload its checks cause a lot of the fatty mons might be able to sit on fighting moves but not so much continous brave birds.

 

[TURBODERP]

Sample set:



Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Flare Blitz
- Parting Shot
- Toxic

Incine also obviously has fantastic synergy with the Pex, as pex can switch into its fighting/water weaknesses and incine can pivot back in for psychic attacks (although they do share a ground weakness). The only real issue I have with it is no recovery is really annoying so you have to pair it with like teleport clef or something, which can make your team a little stally if you’re running Pex too. But overall a niche, usable mon in this metagame where offensive pokemon are running rampant.

Great stuff, definitely gonna try it out.

I think Teleport+Future Sight Slowbro is another great partner and potentially even better than Pex for more offense-oriented teams. The double-pivot core cover each others weaknesses pretty well (still gotta watch out for stuff like Nidoking though) and keep up the momentum quite nicely (or at least aren't a big momentum drain). Plus, Incineroar can check some of the more common switch ins to Future Sight with Toxic/Knock for the Dark types like Mandibuzz and Flare Blitz for the Steels like Melmetal and Ferrothorn. Even Heatran hates taking a Knock Off.

G-Zap works on webs. In most other cases the slot can be used for something else but I think it works best on that archetype pair it with some additional breakers to overload its checks cause a lot of the fatty mons might be able to sit on fighting moves but not so much continous brave birds.

IMO this is pretty accurate, but I think Scarf G-Zapdos might fit on some teams to punish Defoggers (especially Lando-T) once Kyurem-B/Zygarde likely get the boot. Brave Bird + CC is a nuts combination - After rocks, Standard Scarf Lando-T straight up gets OHKO'd by +1 (Defiant boost) Brave Bird...or 2HKO'd by CC. Stuff like Max PhysDef Pex dies to +2 Brave Bird into an unboosted BB.

 

[Vincent210]

I kind of feel like is genuinely worth discussion right now, considering that it's actually got quite a few upsides in this meta?

This thing dies to one uninvested Spirit Break, Wicked Blow is super resisted, and CC doesn't ever OHKO, nor 2HKO (lets say you click Prankster Reflect) on a physically invested Grimm. Iron Head hurts, but that never stopped Clef, and also doesn't OHKO. I would not suggest ever making this your primary shifu switch-in or anything, but its definitely not bad at it, and will indeed force the mon out while never dying to Wicked Blow + Coverage move, so I thought it's worth mentioning. What I really wanted to get at was...

This thing hates snarl. Prankster taunt invalidates all its set mixes cept' specs. Burning snarl on the switch also isn't a big deal, since Spirit Break will still -1 your Spec and chip it even if its not hitting at full, and can do that more than once throughout the game, and its not like they can just hide behind a sub not to deal with that, either. Dark Pulse means nothing here as well, and we don't even need to talk about Disable, since Grimm gets to simply choose whether or not to deal with that junk by clicking Taunt. What this also means is that if you're using Screens Grimmsnarl, Spectrier is literally a free opening to get up screens, as you don't care about it at all, and if you feel like you do, you just click taunt first and shrug it's unboosted clicks off like nothing.

Prankster Taunt means gets a shout-out here for shutting down screens in a way most of the meta cannot. Prankster Light Screen gets a shout-out too I guess, but like in most cases you can use the same turn gaining momentum by switching into your ground type so like why? I guess if you really wanted your offensive ground mon to come in under a light screen.... anyway

If this comes in, that lets Grimmsnarl in. It has nothing to click, you're immune to both stabs, Spirit Break hurts and neuters. Gives you another free pair of screens. Clicking Spirit Break into this also limits what you allow in after it.

There are some other noteworthy uses, like if it catches Zygarde on the double and allows you to totally refuse its opportunity to set up while posing a threat in the Tarrows vs Spirit Break slugging match (rip if its banded, but you still either Taunt or take 80-95% of the thing with you before switching out and a reflect is still up you just win), but mainly-

I think this thing is neat. Screens are good, Prankster Taunt is extremely useful, Spectrier hates it, and its typing has a few uses in this meta.

The opponent opening with Melmetal means being forced out and/or losing a mon, though.... fun fact, same is true of Shuckle. Open Melmetal if you see the thing on preview (if you're not banded its a roll, though). Not that you'll run into Shuckle, really. What was I on about again?

Right, use the Grimm's Faerie Tales mon, A Tale of Two Screens and a Salty Monster is a pretty underrated book.

Edit: Going to reread some of those calcs because I think I made a mistake~

 

[Superperson00]

Interrupting the ZC debate to offer a fairly interesting challenge to the forum. With a still-adjusting meta, great viable options all the way down in RU and Magearna/Heatran/Red Greninja back in ladder, we've never had a more diverse range.

If you could only pick two mons from each tier, what's the best ladder team you could create right now? What's the chances of niche guys like Zarude, Togekiss and Terrakion of getting OU placement when the meta settles? I've seen a lot of appreciation for lower mons like Grimmsnarl and Incineroar, so it's made me curious.

 

[Empress Mobile]

yall do this legit every single generation since it's arrived (arena trap). it's a broken game mechanic and I promise you, almost any argument you come up with someone has already tried and it's been hashed out multiple times. I don't understand why this keeps being repeated. If you really want to try and bring new points you really gotta read through the lengthy history of all of the posts and suspects (because for some reason there were multiple despite the game not changing) and see what u were gonna say because no one has said or tried anything new in this thread like at all..


and can someone explain why tf the shield dog is being discussed? I sincerely want to know bc from my pov I’m like wtf is wrong with yall. is this a meme?

I have to agree entirely with all of this. Virtually any call for AT to get unbanned imo have a loose understanding of what makes the strategy broken in the first place. The higher power level generally makes abuse of trapping worse, not better. It can lead to a more lopsided game after the desired target has been trapped and removed. It has proven to be too much for every OU tier with team preview, and even got the boot in Gen 4 with Sash alleviating mispredictions on the Dugtrio user's part and Rocks forcing damage on the mons Dugtrio can't trap. There is nothing about this metagame suggesting Dugtrio would be a healthy addition to it.

I agree about Zamazenta-C as well. It's a tank that outspeeds most of the offensive metagame. I think people underestimate the attention it would demand in teambuilding, as it would probably easily require multiple mons ganging up on it in most matches. I don't even know what the motivation behind wanting it to drop so bad is. The power level in OU is probably higher than Gen 6 right now, possibly on par with last gen's. Something being awful in Ubers, a highly over centralized tier, doesn't mean it belongs in OU. Early chatter about it didn't seem too serious. It's strange to see the idea gain traction. And the idea of Zamazenta in its base form in OU is beyond ridiculous to me, no idea how anyone could seriously suggest that.

 

[Finchinator]

Kyurem-Black and Zygarde are now banned from SS OU!

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kyurem-black-and-zygarde-are-now-ubers.3673491/

 

[clean]

We have been freed!

Can't wait to start enjoying the metagame a whole lot more now that those two are gone.

 

[bb skarm]

me using boots dragonite as my ddancer now

 

[TURBODERP]

I think Blaziken really benefits from these bans, it'll be interesting to see if that ends up being the case.

 

[Finchinator]

Also a brief note: if you post something along the lines of "now that these two are gone, stall is going to be too powerful" without any other substance or specific evidence from your games (of course, if you have a valid claim, then by all means), then I will personally delete your posts or go out of my way to respond to them for the sake of inflating my own like count -- ideally the latter

This thread (and prior editions of it) have been through a lot of that this generation and I understand the frustrations, but these bans really opened up balance and bulky-offense as much as anything else and stall was a far cry from problematic before them. Let the metagame settle for a few days, try out the new Pokemon that face less stiff competition with these guys gone, and try all sorts of fun stuff. Right now is a time for creativity, pushing the boundaries of the metagame, and finding out what is next, not mindless complaints and archetype bashing. Let's just remember to stay on topic and I am really excited to hear what everyone has to say!

 

[G-Luke]

Can UU get back Buzzswole now? Tired of running tanks that do nothing but eat hits recover switch rinse repeat. At least in UU I can run CB and wreck shit.

 

[TheTraininator]

I think now with the two op bulky boosting dragons finally getting the boot, OU now lacks any glaringly (heh) broken Pokémon, which is good. There’s been some concern about the likes of Pheromosa and Urshifu-SS, but I think most people would probably agree that suspect tests are probably the way to go past this point. At any rate, I’m curious to see if the likes of Buzzwole and Zarude are going to fall off with Zygarde gone or if they will stick around for other reasons, and how Regieleki will respond with yet another Ground type getting the boot.

 

[musiquepkmn]

Despite these bans making waves, many balance teams may not even change. Buzzwole still covers a large portion of the metagame, and although its main two targets were Kyu-B and Zygarde, it's ability to reliably deal with Rillaboom, Kartana, Urshifu, Melmetal (with rocky helmet), and the plethora of ground types that arise from Regieleki's existence means any balance teams with it will not likely change. Of course, Zarude is no longer a great anti-meta pick as it really only uniquely beats Spectrier. Melmetal definitely will see a temporary drop in usage, as it now no longer is the sole way of reliable beating many KyuB sets, although it will likely still remain OU as Band sets have incredible power, and AV sets function as an amazing tanks due to the mono-steel typing. Zygarde being banned also has a lot of repercussions too, as without zygarde many teams will have to go out of their way to include a different ground type like Nidoking, Landorus-T, or Swampert, as Excadrill and Garchomp aren't exactly what you would call widely slappable. This also means that Koko was indirectly nerfed, as it often got by on the fact that most teams' ground immunity was weak to stab dazzling gleam.


I've also been yearning to talk about this for a while: Nidoking's rise to OU. Many people see this as incredibly surprising and as a ladder HO trend. However, although I can't say I predicted it, I think it is incredibly justified. Let's take a look: the most common balance teams at the moment use something similar to Slowbro-Blissey-Buzzwole-Zapdos/Moltres (which is why Taunt Cm Fini and Taunt Roost Koko are so popular). For many players this is a somewhat automatic team structure: plop in the defensive core and you're good to go. However, there are two things missing from this structure that you may have noticed: it lacks a ground type and a tspikes absorber. The first is incredibly important, as Specs Rising Voltage from Eleki does upwards of 70% to Blissey. The latter is not important as all but Buzzwole are usually immune to tspikes, but due to how common they are having an absorber doesn't hurt. Nidoking fulfills these two roles while really only having one commonly used consistent defensive answer in the tier (Blissey). This offensive-defensive role fits in perfectly with common balance structures not involving Toxapex, and the tendency to always draw in Blissey can be capitalized by a double switch to a threatening partner attacker. Other options for a ground type in these two slots are usually Landorus-T or Swampert, but using Landorus-T often leaves you with lacking breaking power and Swampert's longevity issues are annoying when it's niche suggests that it often take hits. Nidoking fits this slot nicely with added utility, and its fourth moveslot being filled with rocks alleviates Blissey's moveslot issues.

Can UU get back Buzzwole now? Tired of running tanks that do nothing but eat hits recover switch rinse repeat. At least in UU I can run CB and wreck shit.

Yes this is how I often feel about the current meta. Many of the best blanket tanks right now pretty much have to be used on balance teams due to their utility, but lack of regenerator or other useful defensive ability, as well as non-astronomical bulk means that games are pretty much just one person pivoting around with their threats while the other is on the defensive foot performing healing duties until someone makes an aggressive play that, whether it works or not, just changes momentum in the other direction or gives a player an offensive opening. The defensive player usually has no need to make such aggressive plays as one mistake would cause them the game. So far common balance cores have been able to pretty much cover everything, so unless the opposing player has a niche breaker threat like I guess Diggersby or some other physical threat that can hit both Buzzwole and Slowbro hard, the games are just monotonous rinse-and-repeat scenarios until someone gets impatient. Idk if this is how its supposed to be or if i'm just playing the game wrong but either way I'm not experienced enough to be able to sus out why this would be. Maybe i'll just go play some Nat Dex RU that tier is fun.

edit: Reading back this is just a long boring rant. Maybe I should make a Youtube Channel. Also hmu in pms if u wanna join Nat Dex RU

 

[hmsa2012]

With both Zygarde and Kyurem-B gone, this will give balance/bulky offensive teams some breathing room. I also believe that this will be one of the more balanced metagames we will be seeing due to the fact that team building will kinda feel less restricting.

I wanna shoutout the council for handling the bans well compared to what we have seen in past metagames. Thank you for letting us play with broken / absurd shit and using public opinion to determine the state of OU. While I do think some mons were seriously problematic, at least players (especially those new in the community) were able to use such mons and help them cultivate their opinions as to why so and so got the boot. Helps develop such communities and creates a more informed basis in chaotic metagames.

 

[Red Raven]

Man, I go out for a couple hours and this greets me when I get back. I even bought lots of snacks for no reason and now it seems it was well worth the money spent. At least now I'm finally free not to use Buzzwall since its two main targets are gone and that I'm free to build a team with five pokemon instead of four

Now I'm really hoping that other setup sweepers rise back to ou since they won't be overshadowed by Kyurem anymore

 

[P3DS]

The loss of kyurem B and Zygarde is definitely healthy for the metagame. The sheer bulk and offensive output of Zygarde vs the near unmatchable power of kyurem lead to some very unhealthy scenarios. The ban of both was defo incoming.

On to the format at large, I feel eyes need to be on blaziken, spectrier, Melmetal, pheromosa and magearna. All 5 have either been banned to Ubers at one point, or are a force to be reckoned with.

lost Zygarde as a check. With how potent this pokemon is, only 4mms can hold it back. SD Blaziken is brutal, and it's checks and counters fall to one of its coverage moves, depending on the choice. The only upside is its sheer fragility and survivability. Flare blitz and life orb take its toll on the walking KFC, but you have generally traded blaziken for at least 1 of your opponent's pokemon. I feel that this could get out of hand. Even the for mat's best walls would be fearing the chicken. It's best counterplay in the format are strong aqua jet users, like Azumarill and Crawdaunt.

we all know the strength of magearna. To be fair, I don't feel its boosting set is as strong as it was during the Isle of Armour, however, it could still be a potent threat. Strong STABs paired with a fantastic defensive typing and bulk, it's extremely strong. I feel we will need to see more of this prior to any ban, but I feel it's got some brokenness, especially with one check leaving.

is just a strong glass cannon. It excels at pivoting, and abusing weakness. It gained a new niche as a hard hitting hazard removing pivot. It's physical pool received a nice boost with triple axel and close combat, but I feel its fairly well kept in check. It might need checking as, like with Cinderace from IoA, pivots are in a fantastic spot thanks to HDB, and phero has high speed and STAB U-turn. We will have to keep an eye on it.

is a tanky CB menace. It's bulk, for some, is too much to handle along side the offensive power it can exude. STAB double iron bash and iron fist, coupled with CB is just dirty. Add in a phenominal physical move pool, and a couple of other sets, and we have a winner for the scariest thing to stare down in the format. It does have drawbacks though: low SpDef and speed can be taken advantage of, and a lack of reliable recovery hurts the tankiness (alleviated by wish passers somewhat).

is the dark horse (:P) of the format. It's sub+disable set is nasty, specs is nasty, scarf is nasty, nasty plot is nasty... Its just an offensive behemoth. This pokemon can snowball fairly easily... I'm not sure if it's lack of moves is going to make it better or worse to face. Ghost is phenominal offensively, with resistance and immunity only from dark and normal types. I see spectrier in the future really hurting.

 

[Katy]

Some Sets I wanna adress I find really potent in the current metagame (Pre- and Post-Ban of Kyurem-B & Zygarde):

Magearna @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

This Magearna-Set is basically the BoltBeam-Coverage alongside Focus Blast as this Set hits most of the Pokemon in the OU-metagame neutrally or for super effective damage output. It is usually ran on Hyper Offense such as Screens or Aurora Veil. Although Magearna is a very bulky Pokemon with a superb defensive typing, it can still take advantage of the Weakness Policy-boost as it has still a plethora Pokemon, which try to check it ofensively or defensively, such as Heatran, Excadrill, Cinderace, and Jirachi aiming to get rid off it with super effective STAB-Moves. But Under Screens / Veil it is able to withstand these moves but is able to get the boost due to Weakness Policy, therefore making Magearna on Hyper Offensive-teams a dangerous threat. BoltBeam hits - as mentioned above - most Pokemon in the tier and Focus Blast dents holes into Heatran, Melmetal and hits Jirachi as well for neutral damage.
Magearna appreciates teammates such as Regieleki or Ninetales-Alola to setup the Dual-Screens for it. It's also helpful to have Landorus-T as a common partner to set the Stealth Rocks. Other Teammates, which can act in a very active fashion are Cinderace with its Bulk Up + 3 Attacks-Set, Zarude, Pheromosa, Blaziken, Sub+Plot Spectrier, Latios, and Tornadus-T.


Spectrier @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grim Neigh
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Mud Shot

This Set finds more and more popularity on the ladder, as it is faster than Dragapult, Jolly Blaziken at +2 and Adamant Sand Rush Excadrill in the Sand Stream granted by either Tyranitar or Hippowdon. It also outspeeds Timid Kingdra in the rain. Therefore this Set is a threatening option to revengekill chipped Pokemon in the current Metagame. Mandibuzz, Tyranitar (SpDef-Versions), Choice Scarf-Dragapult and Urshifu-S or Hydreigon can deal with this Set pretty well. But I still find that very Spectrier-Set really interesting and it currently thrives on the ladder as the Speed-Tier coupled with Scarf puts it above pretty much all Pokemon, even outrunning certain Threats under Sand / Rain and with its amazing Ability in Grim Neigh this Set can be very threatening.


Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aura Sphere
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Trick

Due to the Ban of Kyurem-Black and Zygarde this specific Set can be really good in the Metagame as it is able to break past common threats such as Heatran, Ferrothorn, it deals hefty damage to Blissey with a Specs-boosted Psyshock and Draco Meteoer coming from an amazing SpA-stat alongside Specs is a move which guarantees a lot of OHKOes against neutral targets. Aura Sphere can also help vs Melmetal, Excadrill, Kartana, and most importantly Tyranitar. Trick is the last Slot and can help vs very bulky threats and set-up sweeper alike with locking them into a move such a Recover, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, or Nasty Plot.

All in All: I think these 3 Sets can perform pretty well and have some really great assets which makes them appealing on certain team archetypes and can perform pretty well in the current metagame and with the bans of Kyurem-Black and Zygarde the latter, Latios, has also more freedom to run a Choice Specs-Set without being outsped by these bulky Dragons.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day y'all.

​

 

[ViZar]

Kyurem-Black and Zygarde are now banned from SS OU!

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kyurem-black-and-zygarde-are-now-ubers.3673491/

Now with those two gone, let's talk about the winners and losers of those bans.


BANNED

The Winners:

Offensive Ground-types

Zygarde gave those Ground huge competition, due to Glare and Thousand Arrows, a Ground STAB that can hit Flyers & Levitators. Kyurem-B also played a huge part into their Viability due its Ice STAB demolishing Garchomp, Landorus-I and Nidoking. With those two being gone, they can establish as good offensive grounds. Garchomp, Landorus-I and Excadrill can still run defensive sets and not be checked by Zygarde and Kyurem-B.

Flyers & Levitators

As I said Zygarde had Thousand Arrows, which could hit Flyers & Levitators. It also hit the first four mons, listed above, for super effective damage. Kyurem-B could also hit Zapdos, Moltres and Corviknight super effectively and thanks to Teravolt it could Earth Power Rotom-Heat. Those mons, mentioned above, can now use their Ground Immunity on mons, who lack Stone Edge. Special mention goes to who know lost one of its checks/counters in Kyurem-B. Teravolt ignored Mulitscale and even if it didn't Icicle Spear would still defeat it. Dragonite can know run a defensive and offensive more effectively with Kyurem-B being gone.

Offensive Electric-types

Zygarde was the number 1 most used Pokémon and now that it and the resistent Kyurem-B being gone, Koko and Eleki have more times to fire off their attacks. Koko will get much better since the best replacement for Zygarde, that being Garchomp, can't take Dazzling Gleam as well as Zygarde did. Eleki still has the same issues and Grounds still counter it, but now it has lost one of the best Ground-type answers, so maybe it could see some use.

Other Winners

Yes I know, I could've put Gapdos, Pelipper and Tornadus-T in the Flyers & Levitators section, but I feel like that those didn't fit there. Gapdos can switch-in more easily and Pelipper and Tornadus-T represent more the rain teams and they definetly enjoy the depature of Kyurem-B. Magearna was checked well by Zygarde, and now it can run more sets without being forced to switch-out on a move that has no immunities. Toxapex enjoys both mons being gone, since it got super effectively by both. Dracozolt like the electrics lost Zygarde as an enemy and now it can be used on Sand teams more efficiently. is also worth mentioning, since Zygarde was a really good check it.


The Losers:

Lost Viability

Buzzwole still has some defensive role in the meta, being able to check Pheromosa, Urshifu-S, Melmetal, Rillaboom, Garchomp, Landorus-T and Excadrill, but there are also some mons that it struggles against like Magearna, CInderace, Blaziken, Latios, Dragonite, Urshifu-R and Barraskewda, both in- and outside of rain. Zarude lost one viable niche in OU. It was a great check to Zygarde and its only other roles are as a check to Spectrier and a mon that isn't easily stopped by Toxapex. Spectrier has better checks to it and the Toxapex match-up is still a difficult one.

Still Viable and Great Pokémons

Thanks to Infiltrator Dragapult can revenge kill Zygarde and a unboosted Kyurem-B after sub, but it still has the highest speed stat in OU after Pheromosa and Regieleki and a big move pool to make use of. Clefable was a great check to Zygarde and Kyurem-B with Unaware, now it can run Magic Guard more often and still be a good mon. Melmetal checked both banned mons easily, but now he lost them. Still Melmetal has huge attacking power with great bulk to deal devastating damage. Ferrothorn is still great. Stealth Rock, Leech Seed and Knock Off provide so much utility and it still checks many offensive mons. Rillaboom could revenge kill Zygarde easily, but now it is a good check to the new offensive Grounds and Rain Teams.


All in all, I really love the ban of Zygarde and Kyurem-B. Both were broken and limiting and OU is going to be more fun now.
I think that Pheromosa, Magearna and Melmetal will be the next "too good" mons and main topics of discussion.
​

 

[FrozenVoltz]

I just waked up only to see that Zygarde and Kyurem-B got banned.


What a great way to start a day

 

[pkmnthebest]

Kyurem-b was stupidly op for the OU tier, only melmetal was a "supposed" check (with numerous flaws), thing is that both icicle spear and fusion bolt weren't contact moves so phys def gyro-ball ferrothorn was a check only on paper, while magearna was mediocre due to zygarde's existence.
Glad that this beast is out of OU now.

 

[shadowpea]

This morning I ate breakfast, go on the computer, came on the forums, and saw that Black Kyurem and Zygarde has been banned.

There's no better way to start a day than kicking two broken-ass pokemon to Ubers :D

What do you guys think it next on the chopping block? Phero? Melmetal? Toxapex? Or did we manage to finally balance the tier?

 

[Negative Charge]

Zygarde is banned! No more glare! No more glare!!!

I think these two bans will really open up set diversity. Exciting stuff for sure. Someone above said that Koko and Regi will get better but I don’t really agree, a ground type will still be mandatory for building either way so it’s not like regi will be getting dramatically better.

 

[kazam1228]

Someone above said that Koko and Regi will get better but I don’t really agree, a ground type will still be mandatory for building either way so it’s not like regi will be getting dramatically better.

While I do agree that a ground type will still be almost mandatory for building, I still think that Koko and Regi will still get better. While there are still good ground types in the metagame rn (Garchomp, Swampert, etc.), it really hurt Koko and Regi that the most used mon and arguably one of, if not the best mon in the metagame was a ground type. Having Zygarde banned really helps Koko and Regi, even if there are some great ground types still around.

 

[AM]

The loss of kyurem B and Zygarde is definitely healthy for the metagame. The sheer bulk and offensive output of Zygarde vs the near unmatchable power of kyurem lead to some very unhealthy scenarios. The ban of both was defo incoming.

On to the format at large, I feel eyes need to be on blaziken, spectrier, Melmetal, pheromosa and magearna. All 5 have either been banned to Ubers at one point, or are a force to be reckoned with.

lost Zygarde as a check. With how potent this pokemon is, only 4mms can hold it back. SD Blaziken is brutal, and it's checks and counters fall to one of its coverage moves, depending on the choice. The only upside is its sheer fragility and survivability. Flare blitz and life orb take its toll on the walking KFC, but you have generally traded blaziken for at least 1 of your opponent's pokemon. I feel that this could get out of hand. Even the for mat's best walls would be fearing the chicken. It's best counterplay in the format are strong aqua jet users, like Azumarill and Crawdaunt.

we all know the strength of magearna. To be fair, I don't feel its boosting set is as strong as it was during the Isle of Armour, however, it could still be a potent threat. Strong STABs paired with a fantastic defensive typing and bulk, it's extremely strong. I feel we will need to see more of this prior to any ban, but I feel it's got some brokenness, especially with one check leaving.

Use Blitz, CC, Tpunch, SD with Blaziken with screens support and boots and you’re going to be wiping out a lot of teams, honestly its the only set it needs right now. I use it with grimmsnarl but any decent screen setter should work because things like fini and moltres stop being switch ins, the former being set up fodder once a light screen is up.

The CM shift Gear Stored Power Draining Kiss Mag set I think is a bit too much for the tier. It doesnt take too much for it to snowball either. Only a healthy Heatran might be a good check and a couple of other things but once it gets that kill after a boost the game is probably over, not accounting for some of the other sets it can use effectively. Zyg ban might help open the door a bit but I think after some time it should be considered looking into.