Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

[pqs]

use ev stats divisible by 4 dawg

 

[Jebx]

I want to talk about Durant viability.

Set

Durant @ Leftovers
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 78 SpD / 78 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic
- Protect
- Entrainment
- Iron Head

Durant having a high speed for a freaking metal ant is kinda insane.

Opening with entrainment while having truant can be devastating.

As long as you don't get OHKOed mashing protect with leftovers then when you know you won't get OHKOed playing toxic could basically lead to a win.

I realize that this is easily destroyed by a pp staller, rest and obviously getting OHKOed, but I wanna see how viable just having one of these are.

Thoughts?

Edit: After reading a lot about custap berries, I realize that this counters a lot of custap berry users so L.

As a Durant fan I love how other people are using him, may I ask what the evs are for?
I've been using these 2 spreads mainly:

Hide

Durant @ Leftovers
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 128 SpD / 104 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stomping Tantrum
- Toxic
- Entrainment
- Protect

Stomping Tantrum over Iron Head is not a big deal but it helps against some poison and steel types that you can't toxic. 252 hp 128 spdef lives scarf modest Porygon-Z Hyper Beam, and 104+ speed outspeeds every other variant allowing you to survive Choice Specs Hyper Beam by removing Adaptability. I haven't found a use for any Atk investment yet.

Hide

Durant @ Leftovers
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stomping Tantrum
- Toxic
- Entrainment
- Protect

If Porygon-Z is not a problem this set maximizes bulk while maintaining relatively high speed, mainly for base 75 speed mons such as Dracovish and Dracozolt, this set can probably be optimised especially if Dracovish and Dracozolt are already handled.

 

[Believer86]

Hey everyone, I hope I'm in the right place to make this question.

I started to play 1v1 and fell in love with it only in this gen (but i've been playing pokemon since the launch of red/blue) and I don't know how the meta settles after a new launch...

The question is: Will the legendary powerhouses like Regieleki, Heathran, Naganadel, Tapus, Nectozma, etc. will stay or we're in some kind of pre-ban moment?

 

[Here Comes Team Charm!]

Hey everyone, I hope I'm in the right place to make this question.

I started to play 1v1 and fell in love with it only in this gen (but i've been playing pokemon since the launch of red/blue) and I don't know how the meta settles after a new launch...

The question is: Will the legendary powerhouses like Regieleki, Heathran, Naganadel, Tapus, Nectozma, etc. will stay or we're in some kind of pre-ban moment?

Most legendary pokemon are expected to stick around. Magearna and Marshadow got banned quite early on, Dragonite went shortly thereafter, and nothing else has a lot of ban support at the moment.

Everything you named has negligible odds of ever getting banned. Jirachi, Zygarde-Complete, and Genesect have the greatest ban prospects right now, but common opinion is that they aren't problematic and it's most likely that they'll just stay.

 

[Mubs]

Quick post, but here's the stats from 1v1 Rigged No Johns. Gives a snapshot of the Post-DLC1 SS Tournament Scene in its infancy:

1v1 No 'Rigged' Johns - Overall Usage Stats

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Victini            |  105 |  17.56% |  52.38% |
| 2    | Primarina          |   79 |  13.21% |  40.51% |
| 3    | Genesect           |   75 |  12.54% |  62.67% |
| 4    | Urshifu-*          |   64 |  10.70% |  53.12% |
| 5    | Zygarde            |   60 |  10.03% |  41.67% |
| 6    | Tapu Fini          |   54 |   9.03% |  40.74% |
| 7    | Rillaboom          |   48 |   8.03% |  43.75% |
| 8    | Moltres-Galar      |   43 |   7.19% |  62.79% |
| 9    | Cresselia          |   41 |   6.86% |  63.41% |
| 9    | Jirachi            |   41 |   6.86% |  41.46% |
| 11   | Snorlax            |   40 |   6.69% |  55.00% |
| 11   | Glastrier          |   40 |   6.69% |  52.50% |
| 13   | Garchomp           |   39 |   6.52% |  61.54% |
| 14   | Spectrier          |   35 |   5.85% |  37.14% |
| 15   | Volcanion          |   34 |   5.69% |  61.76% |
| 15   | Darmanitan-Galar   |   34 |   5.69% |  58.82% |
| 15   | Necrozma           |   34 |   5.69% |  52.94% |
| 18   | Registeel          |   33 |   5.52% |  60.61% |
| 18   | Regieleki          |   33 |   5.52% |  54.55% |
| 18   | Tapu Koko          |   33 |   5.52% |  45.45% |
| 21   | Rhyperior          |   32 |   5.35% |  40.62% |
| 22   | Raikou             |   31 |   5.18% |  54.84% |
| 22   | Aggron             |   31 |   5.18% |  41.94% |
| 24   | Togekiss           |   30 |   5.02% |  56.67% |
| 25   | Sylveon            |   29 |   4.85% |  44.83% |
| 25   | Landorus-Therian   |   29 |   4.85% |  37.93% |
| 27   | Dracovish          |   26 |   4.35% |  38.46% |
| 28   | Heatran            |   25 |   4.18% |  40.00% |
| 29   | Blacephalon        |   24 |   4.01% |  45.83% |
| 30   | Zeraora            |   22 |   3.68% |  77.27% |
| 30   | Blaziken           |   22 |   3.68% |  36.36% |
| 32   | Naganadel          |   21 |   3.51% |  66.67% |
| 33   | Tapu Lele          |   19 |   3.18% |  57.89% |
| 33   | Latios             |   19 |   3.18% |  47.37% |
| 33   | Landorus           |   19 |   3.18% |  42.11% |
| 36   | Swampert           |   17 |   2.84% |  70.59% |
| 36   | Haxorus            |   17 |   2.84% |  58.82% |
| 36   | Kartana            |   17 |   2.84% |  41.18% |
| 39   | Dragapult          |   16 |   2.68% |  56.25% |
| 40   | Zapdos-Galar       |   14 |   2.34% |  57.14% |
| 41   | Porygon-Z          |   13 |   2.17% |  38.46% |
| 41   | Clefable           |   13 |   2.17% |  38.46% |
| 43   | Magnezone          |   12 |   2.01% |  66.67% |
| 43   | Diancie            |   12 |   2.01% |  58.33% |
| 43   | Ferrothorn         |   12 |   2.01% |  41.67% |
| 46   | Suicune            |   11 |   1.84% |  63.64% |
| 47   | Archeops           |   10 |   1.67% |  40.00% |
| 48   | Buzzwole           |    9 |   1.51% |  44.44% |
| 48   | Azumarill          |    9 |   1.51% |  44.44% |
| 50   | Mamoswine          |    8 |   1.34% |  62.50% |
| 50   | Articuno-Galar     |    8 |   1.34% |  50.00% |
| 50   | Metagross          |    8 |   1.34% |  12.50% |
| 53   | Aegislash          |    7 |   1.17% |  71.43% |
| 53   | Incineroar         |    7 |   1.17% |  42.86% |
| 55   | Politoed           |    6 |   1.00% |  50.00% |
| 55   | Sawk               |    6 |   1.00% |  50.00% |
| 55   | Moltres            |    6 |   1.00% |  50.00% |
| 55   | Dracozolt          |    6 |   1.00% |  33.33% |
| 55   | Aromatisse         |    6 |   1.00% |  16.67% |
| 55   | Nidoking           |    6 |   1.00% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Kyurem             |    5 |   0.84% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Chandelure         |    5 |   0.84% |  80.00% |
| 61   | Mandibuzz          |    5 |   0.84% |  40.00% |
| 61   | Whimsicott         |    5 |   0.84% |  20.00% |
| 65   | Tyranitar          |    4 |   0.67% | 100.00% |
| 65   | Regidrago          |    4 |   0.67% |  75.00% |
| 65   | Type: Null         |    4 |   0.67% |  75.00% |
| 65   | Rotom-Frost        |    4 |   0.67% |  75.00% |
| 65   | Pheromosa          |    4 |   0.67% |  50.00% |
| 65   | Guzzlord           |    4 |   0.67% |  50.00% |
| 65   | Volcarona          |    4 |   0.67% |  50.00% |
| 65   | Durant             |    4 |   0.67% |  50.00% |
| 65   | Gardevoir          |    4 |   0.67% |  50.00% |
| 65   | Kommo-o            |    4 |   0.67% |  50.00% |
| 65   | Articuno           |    4 |   0.67% |  25.00% |
| 65   | Regice             |    4 |   0.67% |   0.00% |
| 77   | Nihilego           |    3 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 77   | Sudowoodo          |    3 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 77   | Crustle            |    3 |   0.50% |  66.67% |
| 77   | Klefki             |    3 |   0.50% |  66.67% |
| 77   | Gastrodon          |    3 |   0.50% |  66.67% |
| 77   | Vaporeon           |    3 |   0.50% |  66.67% |
| 77   | Ninetales          |    3 |   0.50% |  33.33% |
| 77   | Conkeldurr         |    3 |   0.50% |  33.33% |
| 77   | Keldeo             |    3 |   0.50% |  33.33% |
| 77   | Carracosta         |    3 |   0.50% |  33.33% |
| 77   | Arcanine           |    3 |   0.50% |  33.33% |
| 77   | Venusaur           |    3 |   0.50% |  33.33% |
| 77   | Latias             |    3 |   0.50% |  33.33% |
| 77   | Goodra             |    3 |   0.50% |  33.33% |
| 77   | Celesteela         |    3 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 92   | Rotom-Heat         |    2 |   0.33% | 100.00% |
| 92   | Trevenant          |    2 |   0.33% | 100.00% |
| 92   | Riolu              |    2 |   0.33% | 100.00% |
| 92   | Grimmsnarl         |    2 |   0.33% | 100.00% |
| 92   | Aron               |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Weezing-Galar      |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Crawdaunt          |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Eldegoss           |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Avalugg            |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Rotom-Wash         |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Darmanitan         |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Zarude             |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Dusclops           |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Shelmet            |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Blissey            |    2 |   0.33% |  50.00% |
| 92   | Silvally           |    2 |   0.33% |   0.00% |
| 92   | Hydreigon          |    2 |   0.33% |   0.00% |
| 92   | Pikachu            |    2 |   0.33% |   0.00% |
| 92   | Thundurus-Therian  |    2 |   0.33% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Blastoise          |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Roserade           |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Frosmoth           |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Corsola-Galar      |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Hatterene          |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Darumaka           |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Skrelp             |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Tangela            |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Entei              |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Slowbro            |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Tornadus           |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Espeon             |    1 |   0.17% | 100.00% |
| 111  | Tapu Bulu          |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Hawlucha           |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Raboot             |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Relicanth          |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Alakazam           |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Golbat             |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Krookodile         |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Braviary           |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Golurk             |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Magmortar          |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Scorbunny          |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Grookey            |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Omanyte            |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Celebi             |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Poliwrath          |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Calyrex            |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Aerodactyl         |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Diggersby          |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Accelgor           |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Lucario            |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Drampa             |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Electivire         |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Slowbro-Galar      |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Marowak-Alola      |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Drednaw            |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |
| 111  | Lanturn            |    1 |   0.17% |   0.00% |

Huge thanks to zio for hosting it and congrats STABLE for winning it.

Also, here's this month's stats- definitely an improvement from Regieleki and Dragonite being #1:

1630 Stats from 2020-11-H1:

 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Usage %   | Raw    | %       | Real   | %       |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1    | Primarina          | 14.23963% | 12018  |  5.684% | 4172   | 12.043% |
| 2    | Rillaboom          | 11.23181% | 13943  |  6.594% | 3919   | 11.313% |
| 3    | Zygarde            | 10.39205% | 10980  |  5.193% | 4051   | 11.694% |
| 4    | Victini            | 10.03248% | 8914   |  4.216% | 3056   |  8.822% |
| 5    | Regieleki          |  7.68560% | 19171  |  9.067% | 6129   | 17.693% |
| 6    | Urshifu            |  7.55622% | 10407  |  4.922% | 3758   | 10.848% |
| 7    | Dragapult          |  7.20957% | 15804  |  7.475% | 5132   | 14.815% |
| 8    | Sylveon            |  7.06895% | 10982  |  5.194% | 3895   | 11.244% |
| 9    | Registeel          |  6.75554% | 2734   |  1.293% | 812    |  2.344% |
| 10   | Tapu Fini          |  6.48936% | 7172   |  3.392% | 2384   |  6.882% |
| 11   | Garchomp           |  6.13582% | 11378  |  5.381% | 4055   | 11.706% |
| 12   | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike |  5.85026% | 10024  |  4.741% | 3649   | 10.534% |
| 13   | Jirachi            |  5.76155% | 5614   |  2.655% | 1844   |  5.323% |
| 14   | Porygon-Z          |  5.24917% | 7821   |  3.699% | 2701   |  7.797% |
| 15   | Togekiss           |  5.21296% | 6733   |  3.184% | 2337   |  6.746% |
| 16   | Moltres-Galar      |  4.94843% | 4573   |  2.163% | 1698   |  4.902% |
| 17   | Kartana            |  4.88174% | 8933   |  4.225% | 2811   |  8.115% |
| 18   | Darmanitan-Galar   |  4.70506% | 9913   |  4.688% | 3794   | 10.952% |
| 19   | Sawk               |  4.62825% | 4744   |  2.244% | 1739   |  5.020% |
| 20   | Genesect           |  4.49514% | 7207   |  3.409% | 2543   |  7.341% |
| 21   | Landorus-Therian   |  4.25311% | 4813   |  2.276% | 1745   |  5.037% |
| 22   | Dracovish          |  4.24511% | 8872   |  4.196% | 3363   |  9.708% |
| 23   | Magnezone          |  4.13577% | 5386   |  2.547% | 1987   |  5.736% |
| 24   | Spectrier          |  4.03825% | 5573   |  2.636% | 1968   |  5.681% |
| 25   | Snorlax            |  3.75609% | 6047   |  2.860% | 2365   |  6.827% |
| 26   | Blaziken           |  3.70915% | 13159  |  6.224% | 4364   | 12.598% |
| 27   | Avalugg            |  3.60935% | 5844   |  2.764% | 2420   |  6.986% |
| 28   | Azumarill          |  3.55888% | 4986   |  2.358% | 1552   |  4.480% |
| 29   | Haxorus            |  3.23279% | 6075   |  2.873% | 1783   |  5.147% |
| 30   | Suicune            |  3.20562% | 1939   |  0.917% | 702    |  2.026% |
| 31   | Necrozma           |  3.16719% | 4334   |  2.050% | 1774   |  5.121% |
| 32   | Heatran            |  3.16212% | 6517   |  3.082% | 2034   |  5.872% |
| 33   | Zapdos-Galar       |  2.98020% | 6395   |  3.025% | 2156   |  6.224% |
| 34   | Latios             |  2.76817% | 4602   |  2.177% | 1635   |  4.720% |
| 35   | Tapu Koko          |  2.72660% | 3488   |  1.650% | 1053   |  3.040% |
| 36   | Glastrier          |  2.70425% | 4884   |  2.310% | 2102   |  6.068% |
| 37   | Metagross          |  2.53870% | 3087   |  1.460% | 1003   |  2.895% |
| 38   | Aggron             |  2.36058% | 5253   |  2.484% | 2053   |  5.926% |
| 39   | Volcanion          |  2.30453% | 2255   |  1.067% | 800    |  2.309% |
| 40   | Landorus           |  2.30113% | 4936   |  2.334% | 1666   |  4.809% |
| 41   | Crustle            |  2.27276% | 3616   |  1.710% | 1477   |  4.264% |
| 42   | Cresselia          |  2.27063% | 2220   |  1.050% | 701    |  2.024% |
| 43   | Swampert           |  2.15431% | 4493   |  2.125% | 1786   |  5.156% |
| 44   | Pheromosa          |  2.10572% | 5900   |  2.790% | 1986   |  5.733% |
| 45   | Kyurem             |  2.03782% | 2619   |  1.239% | 904    |  2.610% |
| 46   | Clefable           |  1.98960% | 4400   |  2.081% | 1519   |  4.385% |
| 47   | Zeraora            |  1.95747% | 5117   |  2.420% | 1792   |  5.173% |
| 48   | Naganadel          |  1.84297% | 2680   |  1.268% | 919    |  2.653% |
| 49   | Ferrothorn         |  1.81197% | 5163   |  2.442% | 1793   |  5.176% |
| 50   | Rhyperior          |  1.74843% | 1931   |  0.913% | 652    |  1.882% |
| 51   | Nihilego           |  1.69602% | 1763   |  0.834% | 536    |  1.547% |
| 52   | Rotom-Heat         |  1.64355% | 3387   |  1.602% | 1132   |  3.268% |
| 53   | Tapu Lele          |  1.63081% | 2060   |  0.974% | 651    |  1.879% |
| 54   | Ditto              |  1.61944% | 8651   |  4.092% | 3122   |  9.012% |
| 55   | Articuno           |  1.60640% | 1309   |  0.619% | 408    |  1.178% |
| 56   | Zapdos             |  1.55403% | 1248   |  0.590% | 377    |  1.088% |
| 57   | Corviknight        |  1.47293% | 4355   |  2.060% | 1231   |  3.554% |
| 58   | Regidrago          |  1.46831% | 4783   |  2.262% | 1647   |  4.754% |
| 59   | Aegislash          |  1.41350% | 5245   |  2.481% | 1858   |  5.364% |
| 60   | Arcanine           |  1.40789% | 3755   |  1.776% | 1142   |  3.297% |
| 61   | Chansey            |  1.40407% | 1996   |  0.944% | 663    |  1.914% |
| 62   | Darmanitan         |  1.37504% | 2532   |  1.198% | 907    |  2.618% |
| 63   | Incineroar         |  1.33217% | 2858   |  1.352% | 951    |  2.745% |
| 64   | Blacephalon        |  1.30579% | 2857   |  1.351% | 868    |  2.506% |
| 65   | Thundurus-Therian  |  1.28870% | 994    |  0.470% | 305    |  0.880% |
| 66   | Type: Null         |  1.25276% | 1118   |  0.529% | 389    |  1.123% |
| 67   | Raikou             |  1.17189% | 2242   |  1.060% | 595    |  1.718% |
| 68   | Diancie            |  1.14761% | 1257   |  0.595% | 341    |  0.984% |
| 69   | Excadrill          |  1.06385% | 4505   |  2.131% | 1202   |  3.470% |
| 70   | Whimsicott         |  1.04741% | 4662   |  2.205% | 1714   |  4.948% |
| 71   | Articuno-Galar     |  1.04069% | 1621   |  0.767% | 456    |  1.316% |
| 72   | Tyranitar          |  0.98662% | 2521   |  1.192% | 705    |  2.035% |
| 73   | Moltres            |  0.95773% | 1417   |  0.670% | 483    |  1.394% |
| 74   | Nidoking           |  0.95397% | 1976   |  0.935% | 784    |  2.263% |
| 75   | Toxapex            |  0.94399% | 2682   |  1.268% | 897    |  2.589% |
| 76   | Gardevoir          |  0.93657% | 1643   |  0.777% | 564    |  1.628% |
| 77   | Buzzwole           |  0.91160% | 1432   |  0.677% | 528    |  1.524% |
| 78   | Blissey            |  0.90736% | 2355   |  1.114% | 699    |  2.018% |
| 79   | Latias             |  0.86125% | 1972   |  0.933% | 636    |  1.836% |
| 80   | Malamar            |  0.84493% | 1798   |  0.850% | 657    |  1.897% |
| 81   | Celesteela         |  0.80307% | 1802   |  0.852% | 657    |  1.897% |
| 82   | Volcarona          |  0.75665% | 1857   |  0.878% | 506    |  1.461% |
| 83   | Zarude             |  0.71580% | 953    |  0.451% | 321    |  0.927% |
| 84   | Mamoswine          |  0.71508% | 1601   |  0.757% | 533    |  1.539% |
| 85   | Gengar             |  0.71260% | 4041   |  1.911% | 1265   |  3.652% |
| 86   | Conkeldurr         |  0.70511% | 2945   |  1.393% | 1005   |  2.901% |
| 87   | Gastrodon          |  0.68597% | 2986   |  1.412% | 1080   |  3.118% |
| 88   | Archeops           |  0.66080% | 1357   |  0.642% | 457    |  1.319% |
| 89   | Chandelure         |  0.59767% | 1733   |  0.820% | 515    |  1.487% |
| 90   | Regice             |  0.58712% | 1020   |  0.482% | 257    |  0.742% |
| 91   | Steelix            |  0.57418% | 1510   |  0.714% | 518    |  1.495% |
| 92   | Grimmsnarl         |  0.56917% | 1846   |  0.873% | 573    |  1.654% |
| 93   | Hawlucha           |  0.55646% | 1976   |  0.935% | 685    |  1.977% |
| 94   | Rotom-Wash         |  0.54476% | 1857   |  0.878% | 577    |  1.666% |
| 95   | Bisharp            |  0.53434% | 598    |  0.283% | 196    |  0.566% |
| 96   | Hatterene          |  0.53237% | 1450   |  0.686% | 461    |  1.331% |
| 97   | Bewear             |  0.51030% | 989    |  0.468% | 346    |  0.999% |
| 98   | Togedemaru         |  0.50339% | 3085   |  1.459% | 1137   |  3.282% |
| 99   | Shuckle            |  0.49791% | 2029   |  0.960% | 891    |  2.572% |
| 100  | Shedinja           |  0.48533% | 2020   |  0.955% | 708    |  2.044% |

Typically I'd give commentary but I don't really have the time to do that right now, so feel free to comment on them. As always, have a nice day.

 

[Tol]

1v1 Teambuilding For Dummies And 6v6 Mains

Teambuilding in 1v1 is a large part of the metagame, even more so than it is in any other meta. Despite this, many new players may not know where to begin. Once they have discovered that no, you don't only get one Pokemon and yes, you can run three, the question arises: Where do I go from there? If they have come from 6v6, they will be confused at the lack of traditional team roles and sets (for example, hazards are of vital importance to 6v6 and literally gone in 1v1) and the vastly different VR (we banned an PU mon, Sableye, while Dracovish, an Uber, is considered borderline unviable). 1v1 teambuilding differs from 6v6 in more ways than these, and all of these differences will be confusing to someone trying out 1v1 for the first time who wants to build their own teams instead of just using samples or what they are given by friends. In addition, skill in teambuilding leads to a broader understanding of how teams work, which is a crucial skill for 1v1 players to have if they are going to compete at the tournament level, leading many new players to have no hope of making it into the more prestigious competitions such as 1v1PL or WCo1v1. Lastly, and as the final selling point I have, it's hella fun and playing 1v1 without building your own teams is like (remember to put analogy here before posting). "But wait!" I can hear you cry (in my fevered quarantine imagination). "Wouldn't it be sick if instead of just talking about how cool it is you actually wrote a guide?" My hope is that this will have something for new and old players alike, with new players learning about this meta I've spent so much time with and older players seeing teambuilding from a new perspective.
note: throughout this guide, examples will be from the USUM metagame, because it's what I have the most experience with, but the concepts are applicable throughout any generation of 1v1.

To begin, let's talk about the bare-bones concepts. A team in 1v1 must do these things: A. Have a clear answer for all common metagame threats, and B. Have ways to beat the "kitchen sink" mons and strategies that are uncommon. What does this mean? This means that you need to know what the common metagame threats are and how to beat them! The first of these can be done by looking at the VR, but the second can only be done through playing the meta. For example, you may know that Mega Gyarados is a top threat in USUM by looking at the VR, but only through playing the metagame would you figure out that Mega Metagross, a Steel/Psychic type, is one of the most consistent answers to the Water/Dark MGyara. There are many matchups in 1v1, some that are intuitive (Mega Charizard X loses to Mega Gyarados) and some that are not (Mega Charizard Y beats Mega Gyarados). You must know them all if you are hoping to be able to teambuild at a high level, as this will allow you to effectively cover every common threat. As a general rule, you should have a planned out counter for every Pokemon in S through B, which will generally allow you to beat everything else as well.

Now that you know what you need to be able to beat and how to beat it, how do you actually get started building a team that accounts for all of that? Well, the easiest way to begin is just to pick a Pokemon to build around. Let's say I just cooked up a brand-new Mega Swampert set that I think is cool and I want to build a team with it. So how would I go about doing it? Well, there are a couple of ways. Either way, we're starting with Swampert:

What I would do to find a good partner for it would be to look at the typing matchups. With the example of Mega Swampert, it has one big weakness in Grass types. Therefore, I should look for a good Pokemon with a type that beats Grass, like Fire, Flying, or Steel. While having a typing that covers the weaknesses of the Pokemon you started with does not always guarantee your second Pokemon will cover the starter's weaknesses well, it is usually the case that it will, making this a convenient step. The other method of teambuilding would be to do a more direct analysis of your starting Pokemon's strengths and weaknesses, but making a selection based on type advantages is easier and works just as well. Some immediate examples that come to mind: and the list goes on. You could pick any one of these, but I'm going to pick Mega Charizard Y.

Now that we have our "core" of two Pokemon, we can look at the VR to see what notable MUs we're missing. Here we have pretty bad matchups to sleep abusers (), Greninja, Zygarde, and many common stall mons (), among others. I can see that these Pokemon have a common weakness in Meloetta, so I'll use that as my third choice, giving us this team.

Teambuilding this way is pretty straightforward and can give you some really solid teams. By picking whatever starter Pokemon you'd like, you can have an endless variety of teams at your disposal. You can use the basic sets in the Set Compendium for your Pokemon, provided you become familiar with their matchups.

The Set Compendium is a great resource, but what if I want to make my own specialized sets to fill a niche on my team, like the Mega Swampert in the previous example? Well, if that's the case, then you're ready to be introduced to every 1v1 player's best friend, the Damage Calculator, and to learn how EVs work. (Note: much of what I say in this section will be adapted from this post, which you should totally look at if you want a more in-depth guide on EVing and optimal EVs. This will be more of a beginner's guide.) If you've ever used Pokemon Showdown, you're no doubt familiar with the 252/252 EV spreads recommended for you when you complete a Pokemon's moveset. In 1v1, 90% of the time, these sets are bad and should not be used. This is because unlike in 6v6, where you can want to be generally bulky or powerful to fulfill many different roles during the course of a long battle, in 1v1 we can know exactly which hits we're taking and dishing out and can therefore optimize our EVs to fit the purposes we want. The Damage Calculator helps us do that, and being familiar with how it works is a skill every 1v1 player should have. Once you figure out how to work the Damage Calculator, you can start making yourself some optimized EV spreads!
For example, let's say we want to make a Mega Swampert set that can always live a 200 BP Subzero Slammer (Z-boosted Freeze Shock) from Kyurem-Black. That's easy! Just max out HP, add 188 Def, and we get 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 188 Def Swampert-Mega: 342-403 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. However, you just made a major mistake! You just used 440 out of your 508 EVs (technically 510, but since EVs matter in multiples of 4, the extra 2 don't matter) when you only had to use 420 by maxing out defense first! (252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 168 HP / 252 Def Swampert-Mega: 324-382 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Here we see the first rule of optimal EVs: Raw Def/SpDef is more efficient than HP if you only need defense in the one stat.
Now, since we really want to live everything, let's also make it so that our Swampert can always live a Hyper Beam from Mega Gardevoir! But wait, even with using all of the EVs we have left, it can't do it! (252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Beam vs. 168 HP / 88 SpD Swampert-Mega: 328-387 (85.6 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO). However, if you go back and start by maxing HP, a 252 HP/188 Def/40 SpDef Mega Swampert will live both hits we're throwing at it, and give us 28 EVs left over to use wherever we want. (252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Swampert-Mega: 342-403 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). This gives us the second rule of optimal EVs: Max HP first if you need defense in both stats.
There are some outliers to these first two rules, which come up in the case of Pokemon with really high base Def/SpDef and low base HP, like Durant, where HP EVs are more efficient for physical defense than Def EVs are, and Pokemon with really high base HP and low Def/SpDef, like Guzzlord, where a 124/124 Def/SpDef EV split is better for defense in both stats than 252 HP is.
Some more EV rules:
- Put your nature boost in your highest base stat unless you need another stat to exceed its unboosted maximum.
- If you calc with leftover defensive EVs, put as many into HP as possible.

Now that you know how the tier's matchups work, and what team compositions look like, and how EVs work, you have all the tools to do the most interesting type of building: tournament teambuilding. But before we get into that, let's talk about picking. See, a common idea among newer players is that you're picking against your opponent's team. This is not the case, however. You're picking against what you think your opponent's team is. For example, if I see a Greninja on the other team, I'm probably going to treat it like it's Specs or Waterium Greninja, based on the other members of the team, and pick accordingly. If it turns out that the Tapu Fini I send out to beat it gets OHKOed by Choice Band Gunk Shot, then I have lost even though I picked correctly. Let's look at another example. My team consists of only a Mega Charizard X, and my opponent's team has a Gyarados and a Pinsir. I assume that these are Mega Gyarados and Mega Pinsir, as these are the only sets these two Pokemon run. From my point of view, this is a totally lost game. Mega Charizard X has no way of beating Mega Gyarados, so there is simply no way to win. But when we look at this situation from my opponent's point of view, the outlook is not nearly so dire. All they see is a Charizard, which could either be X or Y. Mega Gyarados may beat Charizard X just fine, but against Charizard Y? That's a losing matchup, due to Zard Y's powerful SolarBeams and special attack stat. Their Mega Pinsir would do much better against a Charizard Y, likely killing it in one hit with a powerful Giga Impact, but the more durable Charizard X would beat it handily. So this unwinnable matchup, because my opponent doesn't know what Charizard set I'm using, becomes a 50/50. You can see the benefit and goal of masking your sets: it can make an optimal play appear suboptimal (if my opponent knew I was X, he would always send Gyarados) and it can make a suboptimal play appear optimal (that Tapu Fini I sent out may not have seemed like such a great idea if I knew that Gunk Shot was incoming). On ladder, all of these points are moot: You see your opponent's team enough times in quick succession that pretty soon what you think your opponent's team is and what their team actually is are the same thing. But in tournament play, where you build new teams for each opponent and they are likely to only see them once? Well, you see how there could be a lot more lure building and cteaming options availible to a savvy teambuilder.
Lure building is pretty simple- designing a team so that it appears to have a weakness, while in fact it does not. This is accomplished by using a Pokemon with a different set than it normally runs. For example, look at this replay of a game that I played vs ggopw in 1v1PL IV. Ggopw built his team so that Scarf Kyurem-Black seemed like an obvious pick for me, as it likely would kill all three of his Pokemon in one or two hits, but then sent out Counter Mega Gengar- a set I had not thought about- to beat me. You can do this with literally any Pokemon that has a potential set that changes its matchup spread drastically. Some ideas: (Ghostium vs Scarf) (Groundium vs SubEndeavor) (Specs vs Band). Another example: I want to lure in Charizard, so I design a team of . This team would easily lose to Mega Charizard Y, however, I make my Aegislash Scarf Head Smash, and send that out when I see a Charizard, luring it in and OHKOing it.
Cteaming is when you design a team to beat a specific opponent. You look at their replays to see what kind of teams they like to use, and analyze them for common weaknesses. For example, look at this replay of a tournament game I played vs motogp in WCo1v1 II. I had seen motogp play throughout the weeks leading up to our game, and I noticed that his teams were largely not accounting for the then-new Zeraora. I built Zeraora teams to use against him and was rewarded with multiple 3-0s. Now, all of this is not to say that you can't just bring basic, solid teams to tournament games- you can, and probably should do that for the majority of your matches. But in tournament play, new avenues of teambuilding are opened up that simply aren't there on ladder 90% of the time, and you need to be prepared for them. Use your knowledge of what makes a good team to spot lures. Is it really all that likely that a competent player would leave such a gaping hole in their team? In hindsight, I should have realized that there was no way that ggopw, one of the best players of all time, would simply not have a way to beat scarf KyuB, one of the most common threats in the ORAS 1v1 metagame. Use common sense and judgement in making these decisions. To combat opposing cteaming, mix up your teams, or perhaps hide your testing and replays. If it wasn't for me being able to watch all of motogp's games, I never would have spotted the Zeraora weakness.

Now that you've read this guide, I hope that you have the tools you need to build your own great 1v1 teams. The 1v1 community has advanced a lot in terms of resources for newer players since I first got into the scene, with developments like the Set Compendium, Pokemon analyses to read, and speed tiers, so with the skills in this guide you should have no trouble jumping right into teambuilding. You will build some awful teams, but that's the great thing about 1v1: you can build and test teams incredibly quickly, helping you get to the good ideas and throw out the bad quicker than a 6v6 metagame. Much thanks to Krytocon for telling me it was a good idea to write this, Potatochan for telling me what I wrote was confusing and helping me to fix it, and to smely socks for telling me I was a boomer. I hope you have a good day and build some sick 1v1 teams.

 

[zioziotrip]

Yo. I keep trying to get away from this damned game but seeing as I'll at the very least be playing/building SS for PL and I believe in actively trying to improve the meta as opposed to just sitting around, I'm gonna go over the meta as is. I understand many are waiting for champs to end but I see no consequence to starting discussion early. That's enough rambling.

Let's talk.

DLC2 saw a large shift introducing many prevalent mons such as Victini, Zygarde, and Genesect. A lot of old faces such as Toge, Urshi, and Prim are as prevalent as ever that being said. As things stand, pretty undisputedly the best three mons are Victini, Urshi, and Prim. Zygarde, Toge, and Lax are not far behind but I'd say suggesting any could take Vic/Urshi's spot doesn't make a lot of sense, maybe there's a case you could make for one of these being better than Prim. Stall mons have made somewhat of a resurgence with Cresselia and Registeel entering the field but in my opinion the best stall mons are still those that have options outside of stall, Cress and Toge being examples of excellent mons able to run a plethora of potent sets. The meta is seeing a lot of innovation in the form of mons like Moltres-G, Urshi-RS, and Spectirer. Some sets such as Specs/Scarf Cress, Occa Shift Gear Genesect, and WP Skitter Smack Zygarde are seeing the light of day. The meta is developing at a pace that I don't think it has before, however, it's not all great. Many players, including myself, are getting frustrated with the meta for various reasons but the most common one I see is that the meta is becoming increasingly difficult to make consistent or diverse team structures as the top mons become increasingly more diverse. Nowhere else is this issue more present than in the case of Victini.

Victini possesses an insanely large movepool. Having a 180 BP physical move and a 130 BP special move for fire stab it bypasses its relatively low attacking stats at 100. Its other options such as Bolt Strike, Energy Ball, Glaciate, Scorching Sands, etc. allow it to blow past many supposed resists. Encore, Trick, and Quick Attack can easily make mincemeat of attempts to shut down Victini w/ status moves. Beyond the movepool, Victini sports both great speed and bulk as a mon w/ all base 100s. The amount of options Victini posses allows it to run basically whatever the hell it wants. Its stats give it relative freedom to go wild as V-Create/Blue Flare or its immense bulk make both reliably tanking hits from it and killing back at the same time an absolute nightmare. This doesn't even account for all the excellent lure sets it has at its disposal such as WP, Specs, Passho, and Shuca. Sets such as LO and Scarf also provide even more hassle in preparing for its offensive sets. All in all, this leaves Victini w/ a small pool of reliable checks. Sure, you could run Prim but then get smashed by Light Screen WP or Passho. "But I will just Encore Victini's screen!" you say. Enjoy doing that as a band Bolt Strike comes flying at your head dome. Overall, despite being a Water vs a Fire Prim is incredibly unreliable. Relying on a combo of setguessing and potentially winning a 50/50. Sure, you could run Moltres-G just to get blown up by an Orb V-Create, be on one health w/ Endure, then get QA'd. Sure, you could run Garchomp then run into Shuca and catch aprox two (2) Glaciates. Band just loses, Custap 50/50s, tho scarf is p reliable. At the end of the day, you have one of two options when building around Victini.

1. Accept you will lose to one(or more) of its sets.
2. Run a niche mon or set that serves little purpose outside of checking Victini and is almost certainly inferior to alternatives.

Examples being Scarf Urshi, Scarf Chomp, Regidrago, Haxorous, and Latias. Yeah I mean sure it works for checking Vic but certainly isn't optimal. All of these mons are preyed on by the still excellent fairies such as Toge, Prim, Fini, and Sylv. (Sidenote: Why is Sylv only B+, that shit destroys a lot of the meta w/ Custap) Other issues these mons share are Urshi, Lax, Rachi, Darm-G, and Registeel. Leaving such a small dent in what you have to check is really harmful to a lot of teams. As is, the meta is trending towards a very MU fishy place. It's less about making the overall more solid team and more trying to cheese the opp w/ some nonsense. Victini makes this issue way worse as such a focus is put on it in the builder and its own versatility increases the chance to pull an unplayable MU. Victini is an incredibly unhealthy presence to the tier. Quick mention of the fact that it+Urshi presents an incredibly weird type dynamic of Vic checking Faires/Flyings that check Urshi and those Fairies/Urshi checking the Dragons that check Victini creating an incredibly awkward issue in the builder. Unrelated to Victini itself but just an example of its presence in the tier causing issues in the builders.
Proof of Concept
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1235338817 - Sice uses SubEncore Victini to completely shut off any chance Toge would have, practically this set doesn't seem to really do much but it's a clear example of Victini abusing its obnoxiously large amount of options to cheese a win
Here is a list of Victini sets that have seen use, or at the very least what I've been able to compile: https://pokepast.es/634ee9a4198ce3b7
I believe credits are due to Elo Bandit Nalei Jirachirelia smely socks dom lmk if you want your set removed or you weren't credited

Victini's diversity comes in wildly different forms. Being at the same time incredibly strong, fairly fast, bulky, being able to run either special or physical, and having various options such as Trick/Encore/Will-O-Wisp/Light Screen provides immense headaches in the builder. Prepping for Victini comes down to having a half-check or running a reliable albeit overall disadvantageous check. Victini is unhealthy for the tier as it puts such a large burden on building, this creates a lot of scenarios where the game is taken out of the player's hand and becomes MU-based. I think the thing is due for discussion and hopefully a suspect.

s/os smely socks STABLE Satanic Beast Bopher dom for helping me understand the meta better by discussion and particular shoutout to smely for helping me structure this post. Peace.

 

[Snowjy]

Hey all! I’m a mediocre player at best and would like to give you some of my thoughts on a theoretical Victini stripped Gen 8 Metagame.

While I very strongly dislike SwSh 1v1 as a whole a Non-Victini laden Meta would be interesting to say the least. It would give mons like Zarude, Buzzwole, Blaziken, and some bulky waters that were previously shit down by the menace that is Victini time to shine. I also think that Zygarde will prance (slither?) right up to the S tier along with Primarina. The prevalence of the aforementioned Prima and Zygod will cause the upbringing of some more niche picks such as Bulky Offense Regice, Physical Tapu Koko, and possibly even Balloon Quick Attack Zeraora. I believe top tier threats such as Ursh-S, Sect, and Rachi will still stay fairly dominant.

I’d also take a little bit of time to talk about a certain lower tier sleeper picks that can work now and even possibly in a Victini ban situation. Note that I’ll likely be posting my thoughts in the VR thread and/or the Sets Compendium submissions as well.

Swampert
Current Rank: C
Shiny form: Better than most
This thing is uber versatile and quite hard to work around in team preview given your team doesn’t have a reliable check to it. The first set that comes to mind of being the most prevalent is YawnTect + Two attacks. You can run Rindo/Chilan or even leftovers on this set. It has/had the ability to check Victini very effectively if you play your cards right and depending on your two attacks of choice. The only reason that I don’t say it’s a Victini counter is because predicting resist berrys isn’t fun and sleep turns could always fuck you up. The only other 2 sets I think have a niche are bulky Band and bulky Specs. Swampert has pretty meh options when it comes to immediate power with it’s water stab as Liquidation is you’re really only option, however it has sone pretty great coverage on the physical side. Some of it’s physical tools include EQ, Liquidation, Ice Punch, Superpower, Outrage, Darkest Lariat, Stone Edge/Rock Slide, and Giga Impact. Specs is very similar except now you get access to the wonders of Hydro Pump and Earth Power. Some other notable tools include Sludge Wave, Ice Beam, and Focus Blast. Definitely lacking on the special side in terms of power and coverage but serves as a niche surprise mon.

Thanks for taking opinions from a sub-par 1v1er like me! Have a nice day!

 

[magicarpe_lvl100]

2020, what a year that was. Obviously, our society faced unprecedented challenges, and life for pretty much every single one of us took a path we didn’t expect it to…
But 2020 was also one of the most intense years the 1v1 community has ever seen, if not the most. Lockdown brought us together, more than ever. But what do we remember of this rollercoaster ? Let’s find out in the…

2020 1v1 Community Poll Results
Co-hosted by Rosa and magicarpe_lvl100 ​

Favorite 1v1 Pokemon of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/4af0d56b33fd67a4
1. Primarina - 9
2. Haxorus - 3
Honorable mentions:
"your mom"

Best teambuilder of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/7b1010a332fd88dc
1. zio - 12
2. STABLE - 11
3. Nalei - 10
Honorable mentions:
"your mom"

Most influential player of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/0c6510ea15d84253
1. zio - 16
2. smely socks - 15
3. STABLE - 5
Honorable mentions:
"me bitch"

Most gimmicky player of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/5b134069ed904d3e
1. 5luke - 17
2. XinosXinos (Yech) - 7
3. eblurb / Joker 1v1 - 5

Luckiest player of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/d3d90b4704715b6c
1. eblurb - 17
2. nolenot - 14
3. Maki - 5
Honorable mentions:
"every1 who beat me"
"not me"

Most intimidating player of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/64b210b912e09ac3
1. XSTATIC COLD - 26
2. ggopw - 13
3. eblurb - 4
Honorable mentions:
"Your mom"

Best new player of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/fa26a3c49b27780d
1. eblurb - 14
2. smely socks - 12
3. crucify - 8

Best ladder player of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/15c5d88ac61ff952
1. Ravonne - 41
2. XSTATIC COLD - 11
3. smely socks - 6

Best tournament player of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/b278b7f1dd5a12ab
1. XSTATIC COLD - 18
2. ggopw - 15
3. eblurb - 6

Best overall player of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/913193098b778bff
1. XSTATIC COLD - 23
2. ggopw - 15
3. Here Comes Team Charm! - 5
Honorable mentions:
"there is no good 1v1 player"

Nicest user of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/3165b50040f9e33c
1. smely socks - 25
2. Jirachirelia - 6
3. Felucia / Krytocon / "me" - 4

Meanest user of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/404d6501039a4052
1. XSTATIC COLD - 17
2. SiceXV - 5
3. STABLE - 4
Honorable mentions:
"1v1 is a very nice and friendly community with no mean users"
"Your mom"

Funniest user of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/e6595b6568191664
1. pqs / pazza - 9
2. "me" - 6
3. nolenot / XSTATIC COLD - 5
Honorable mentions:
"D2TheW"
"Not d2"

Most clever user of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/108aab2223145bb4
1. N/A - 11
2. 5luke - 6
3. Here Comes Team Charm! / "me" - 4

Cutest user of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/9805c4def6c98035
1. smely socks - 10
2. N/A - 7
3. "me" - 6
Honorable mentions:
"Person reading this"
"no"

Most missed user of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/7da635bdfed4a10c
1. pazza - 9
2. ggopw - 8
3. DEG - 6

User that science can't explain?
https://pokepast.es/b8f0542b8191cd96
1. nolenot - 28
2. eblurb - 8
3. pazza / pqs / ryyjyywyy / "me" - 4

User most likely to answer "me" on the other questions?
https://pokepast.es/5e1de4af790ccf27
1. STABLE - 23
2. "me" - 19
3. eblurb / pqs - 6

Overall best user of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/b8651f79baa7433b
1. smely socks - 18
2. ggopw - 6
3. Nalei / "me" - 4

Best ship of 2020?
https://pokepast.es/ed8297098dabccdc
1. Akumajou x leil / Boat - 8
2. crucify x ggopw - 5
3. Le Creme Brule x Yechi / Nalei x SiceXV - 4
Honorable mentions:
"no"

Funniest 1v1 moment of 2020? (Can be through PS/Smogon/Discord/etc)
https://pokepast.es/d64c1dc126cfd76e
1. N/A - 9
2. eblurb winning classic - 5
3. Monsareeasy vs Diancie - 4

Favorite overall 1v1 moment of 2020? (Can be through PS/Smogon/Discord/etc)
https://pokepast.es/1bb430e6537f0545
1. 1v1PL - 7
2. Ursa bans - 5
3. Robyn quitting - 3

If you could make anything happen in 1v1 next year, what would you do?
https://pokepast.es/6817900cd151ffd9


As we left 2020, a whole new year is now awaiting for us. Happy New Year to you all, and may 2021 be the best possible both in and outside 1v1 !

 

[Adam3560]

Hey guys this is my first post on a smogon forum, I hope you like it! I wanted to show a bulky tornadus-t set I made that is able to kill rillaboom, every genesect set, specs dragapult, just about every urshifu set(both forms), and a lot of other "meta" picks right now. Tornadus-t needs some love guys.

This is the tornadus-t set:
https://pokepast.es/8985d056845e4980

Set details:
Hurricane is really powerful, and kills rillaboom/urshifu(among others), icy wind is there for dragapult(maybe garchomp), heat wave kills genesect, and sludge wave kills fairies as well as being a 100% accuracy move which is very handy. The bulk is there especially for choice specs and band genesect, and the speed is there to oustpeed modest and adamant ones, since it takes up too many evs to bulk for that. The reason the speed is 305 not the needed 298 is because the way the natures worked out, putting 0 evs in speed and a positive nature left me with the same bulk but extra speed so I kept it that way. 4 more speed evs would speed tie you with porygon z and 8 evs can be taken out of spdef and put into speed, which will let you outspeed porygon-z, at the risk of losing to specs genesect 6 percent of the time. That would leave you with this: https://pokepast.es/f31351ae9887ac7f. Of course to win a matchup against porygon-z you would have to replace a move with focus blast. 16 evs can be put in speed to outspeed any non-scarf landorus-therian, but would leave you losing to banded urshifu 6% of the time as well. That would leave you with this set: https://pokepast.es/539bc024d9662783.

These are the "threats" in question:
https://pokepast.es/ce3e2e7b2e61c331

Here are replays of important matchups as a proof of concept:
Specs timid Genesect: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270710949
Banded jolly Genesect: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270711515
Banded jolly Urshifu: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270712370
252 HP 4 spdef av adamant Urshifu: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270713984
252 HP 252 spdef av careful Urshifu: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270714584
Specs modest dragapult:https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270709074


Additional information:
Modest/Adamant genesect and Adamant urshifu are both slower than this tornadus-t, so they are not needed to be bulked for. Maximum hp and sp.def urshifu requires two consecutive hurricane hits to kill so its only a 51% chance win. The other urshifus are a 70% chance wins, genesect is 90% win, and dragapult is a 90% win. If somebody runs an assault vest urshifu somewhere between those two levels of bulkiness, hurricane will also have to hit twice unless you opt to replace a move with air slash.

These are the "actual threats" to torn that it can not currently handle:
-Zeraora(fast enough to run adamant band and OHKO torn)
-Primarina(even non-av variants are just too tanky to be killed by hurricane)
-Aegislash(weakness policy variants can tank 2 heat waves and kill torn)
-Snorlax(too much special bulk to be killed)
-Dracovish(too much raw power)
-Crustle(sturdy+stone edge)
-Necrozma(too bulky to get killed)
-Metagross(Can tank and kill if weakness policy)
-Sylveon(can live a hurricane and can OHKO torn)
-Tapu lele(can live a hurricane and can OHKO torn)
-Zygarde(can live an icy wind and OHKO with weakness policy boost)
-Avalugg(thugg is just too good)
-Regeleki(just outspeeds and kills)
-Goodra(tanky enough to live 2 hits from tornadus-t and can OHKO after acid spray)
-Aggron(metal burst and choice band variants just beat tornadus-t, which yeah that's all of them)
Almost all of these threats can be handled by weakness zygarde, which is my preferred teammate to tornadus-t

Please say what you think about the set; tell me some more possible threats; or give me some recommendations in the comments.

Edit:
Found then LoSt(the guy who inspired this post) brought up a valid point that tornadus-t does get sludge wave that can deal with fairies. Tornadus should be able to beat specs and custap berry primarina and some variants of sylveon. Sludge wave drastically improves tornadus-t's matchup with fini since sludge wave provides a 190 power 100 accuracy move instead of a 165 power 70 accuracy move. Sludge wave should either 2HKO or 3HKO a calm mind tapu fini variant. Sludge wave can replace focus blast, although that will cause you to lose to tyranitar. Additionally, avalugg and goodra both wreck my proposed tornadus+zygarde core, so something is definitely needed for those.

Edit 2:
Hey guys I found a way that tornadus can "theoretically" beat necrozma.
Tornadus set:https://pokepast.es/bb40a9c232b746ba
Necrozma set:https://pokepast.es/a2c285ecc52d87ac
Calcs:
252+ SpA Necrozma Prismatic Laser vs. 252 HP / 12 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 306-360 (84.5 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Necrozma doesn't have choice specs cause it got knocked off)

252+ Atk Choice Band Tornadus-Therian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 213-252 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(cb knock off has a 100% chance to 3HKO, and like a 14 percent to 2HKO? Either way, this torn can beat choice specs but still loses to meteor beam :( )

Additionally... https://pokepast.es/30a2a53032c5f453 <--- this absolute frankenstein of a set is ev'd to take 2 photon geysers from necrozma and still 3HKO with knock off. This set will never be viable, just a proof of concept.
252+ SpA Necrozma Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Tornadus-Therian: 153-181 (42.2 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO


Battles:https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1271244545 (prismatic laser)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1271247488 (photon geyser)


This set can obviously be optimized a lot, so advice/recommendations would be much appreciated.

And the cteaming of the year award goes to...

 

[Found then Lost]

Hey guys this is my first post on a smogon forum, I hope you like it! I wanted to show a bulky tornadus-t set I made that is able to kill rillaboom, every genesect set, specs dragapult, just about every urshifu set(both forms), and a lot of other "meta" mons right now. Tornadus needs some love guys.

This is the tornadus-t set:
https://pokepast.es/1adc034af0c63f7e

These are the "threats" in question:
https://pokepast.es/ce3e2e7b2e61c331

Here is a replay of each matchup as a proof of concept:
Specs timid Genesect: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270710949
Banded jolly Genesect: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270711515
Banded jolly Urshifu: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270712370
252 HP 4 spdef av adamant Urshifu: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270713984
252 HP 252 spdef av careful Urshifu: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270714584
Specs modest dragapult:https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1270709074


Additional information:
Modest/Adamant genesect and Adamant urshifu are both slower than this tornadus-t, so they are not needed to be bulked for. Maximum hp and sp.def urshifu requires two consecutive hurricane hits to kill so its only a 51% chance win. The other urshifus are a 70% chance wins, genesect is 90% win, and dragapult is a 90% win. If wanted, focus blast can be swapped out with air slash for a better matchup on 2-hit flying weak mons like sawk and endure hawlucha.

These are the "actual threats" to torn that it can not currently handle:
-Zeraora(fast enough to run adamant band and OHKO torn)
-Primarina(even non-av variants are just too tanky to be killed by hurricane)
-Tapu fini(hurricane misses too much and air slash just isn't powerful enough)
-Aegislash(weakness policy variants can tank 2 heat waves and kill torn)
-Snorlax(too much special bulk to be killed)
-Dracovish(too much raw power)
-Crustle(sturdy+stone edge)
-Necrozma(too bulky to get killed)
-Metagross(Can tank and kill if weakness policy)
-Sylveon(can live a hurricane and can OHKO torn)
-Tapu lele(can live a hurricane and can OHKO torn)
-Zygarde(can live an icy wind and OHKO with weakness policy boost)
-Avalugg(thugg is too good)
-Regeleki(just outspeeds and kills)
-Goodra(tanky enough to live 2 hits from tornadus-t and can OHKO after acid spray)
Almost all of these threats can be handled by weakness zygarde, which is my preferred teammate to tornadus-t

Please say what you think about the set; tell me some more possible threats; or give me some recommendations in the comments.

Edit:
Found then LoSt(the guy who inspired this post) brought up a valid point that tornadus-t does get sludge wave that can deal with fairies. Tornadus should be able to beat specs and custap berry primarina and some variants of sylveon. Sludge wave drastically improves tornadus-t's matchup with fini since sludge wave provides a 190 power 100 accuracy move instead of a 165 power 70 accuracy move. Sludge wave should either 2HKO or 3HKO a calm mind tapu fini variant. Sludge wave can replace focus blast, although that will cause you to lose to tyranitar. Additionally, avalugg and goodra both wreck my proposed tornadus+zygarde core, so something is definitely needed for those.

Ran some Sludge Wave calcs.
SYLVEON
Vs. Bulky Yawn + Babiri Berry Sylveon: 0 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-Therian Sludge Wave vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 178-210 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
36 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. -2 252 HP / 132 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 247-292 (68.2 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This Torn outspeeds this Sylveon, meaning 1-3 turns of sleep beat this Sylv.

Vs. Quick Attack Bulky Sylv (Hyper Voice/Hyper Beam/Fake Tears/Quick Attack): 0 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-Therian Sludge Wave vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 178-210 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
68 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 255-300 (70.4 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If it goes for Fake Tears, it automatically loses, since Sludge Wave 2HKOs. Hyper Beam only KOs on a crit.

Loses to Specs Sylv, though. Hyper Beam OHKOs. There is the 10% miss chance of Hyper Beam, though...
Vs. Specs Sylv: 0 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-Therian Sludge Wave vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 178-210 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If HBeam misses, Torn wins.

PRIMARINA

Vs. Specs Prim: 0 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-Therian Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 64 SpD Primarina: 184-218 (50.6 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
48+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Cannon vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 321-378 (88.6 - 104.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
If I understand correctly, as long as Torn doesn't crit Prim to get it into Torrent, Torn wins 75% of the time, disregarding a crit from Prim.

It isn't going to beat Assault Vest Prim unless you get lucky with misses and misplays, though.

So that's some calcs for you, if you run Sludge Wave over Focus Blast or something like that. Hopefully this isn't too messy or wrong, feel free to correct me mercilessly

 

[Adam3560]

Ran some Sludge Wave calcs.
SYLVEON
Vs. Bulky Yawn + Babiri Berry Sylveon: 0 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-Therian Sludge Wave vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 178-210 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
36 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. -2 252 HP / 132 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 247-292 (68.2 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This Torn outspeeds this Sylveon, meaning 1-3 turns of sleep beat this Sylv.

Vs. Quick Attack Bulky Sylv (Hyper Voice/Hyper Beam/Fake Tears/Quick Attack): 0 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-Therian Sludge Wave vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 178-210 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
68 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 255-300 (70.4 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If it goes for Fake Tears, it automatically loses, since Sludge Wave 2HKOs. Hyper Beam only KOs on a crit.

Loses to Specs Sylv, though. Hyper Beam OHKOs. There is the 10% miss chance of Hyper Beam, though...
Vs. Specs Sylv: 0 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-Therian Sludge Wave vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 178-210 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If HBeam misses, Torn wins.

PRIMARINA

Vs. Specs Prim: 0 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-Therian Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 64 SpD Primarina: 184-218 (50.6 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
48+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Cannon vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 321-378 (88.6 - 104.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
If I understand correctly, as long as Torn doesn't crit Prim to get it into Torrent, Torn wins 75% of the time, disregarding a crit from Prim.

It isn't going to beat Assault Vest Prim unless you get lucky with misses and misplays, though.

So that's some calcs for you, if you run Sludge Wave over Focus Blast or something like that. Hopefully this isn't too messy or wrong, feel free to correct me mercilessly

This is... beautiful. Honestly if tornadus is able to beat so many things, I'd consider it to be at least A- tier on the viability rankings. Who do I contact for that again?

 

[Ginger Princess]

This is... beautiful. Honestly if tornadus is able to beat so many things, I'd consider it to be at least A- tier on the viability rankings. Who do I contact for that again?

You would just make a post on the Viability Rankings thread advocating for the rank

 

[Adam3560]

You would just make a post on the Viability Rankings thread advocating for the rank

Damn news travels fast, will do
News update: I'm probably going to hold off on making the post cause I'm going to try to make at least 3 more sets to try to find the full viability of tornadus-t. Pm me if you have a suggestion.

 

[Adam3560]

Every single viable tornadus-therian set:

I'm back, and I'm never going away. Tornadus-t is the goat, and I have not one, not two, but six sets to show you today.

First off, here are the sets:https://pokepast.es/b2fbeeea7867d6dc

Bulky choice specs:
You know this one... no introduction needed. It's the set I use most and the one you probably all will too.

https://pokepast.es/c4acd079cfdd5807


Offensive choice specs:
A more offensive variant of choice specs tornadus-t is more offensive... but its just bad.(I might just not include this as a set)

The set: https://pokepast.es/7df72db04883c382

16 speed evs are there to outspeed -1 dragapult. The modest nature and 252 spa evs are there for maximum damage output. Rest of the evs are poured into hp, because bulk is alwas handy. Notably, choice specs hurricane OHKOs dragapult, but it just misses anyways.
Offensive choice specs tornadus-t is almost entirely outclassed by life orb tornadus, don't use it. Should I delete this? Reply to this if you guys can see anything this beats that life orb doesn't.


Choice band:
Tornadus's 100 base attack seems pitiful at first in this metagame of uber-hard hitters, but once again, its coverage is what separates it from other offensive picks. So what makes tornadus-t's coverage so great? Tornadus-t is blessed with two amazing coverage moves of knock off, and iron tail. Knock off is able to weaken opponents by knocking off their items in a very choice-heavy metagame, and iron tail is great coverage to hit diancie, which could otherwise tank for specs tornadus, but is unable to handle the power of iron tail. This means that opposing diancie players will always have to be careful of picking diancie against tornadus-t, in fear of a potential iron tail. Additionally, superpower and fly, while having nasty side effects, both have nearly the same power as their special counterparts focus blast and hurricane, while actually being able to hit when you need them.

The set:https://pokepast.es/a90040edac83f7ca


Set details:
Evs are poured into attack and speed, so its fast and hits hard. The evs aren't optimized for anything as of yet, I might work on the set some for if choice band turns out to be good.


Life orb:
Life orb tornadus has the amazing godly power to switch moves, meaning it is the only tornadus-t set so far that can beat zygarde.(very cool). It can also break stall pokemon well enough for the most part, if you can deal enough damage with nasty plot+(insert special move).
The set:https://pokepast.es/c6eaff5f88a2e08d


Set details:
A life orb 0 spa EV +4 icy wind is enough to kill the tankiest of weakness policy zygardes, so all the evs are poured into attack and hp. If you think you are facing an assault vest zygarde, or you think you can live 3 thousand arrows, I'd recommend setting up a 3rd nasty plot just to be safe. None of the evs are optimized for anything really, just 16 evs for -1 dragapult and evs poured into hp for bulk and attack for knock off damage. Life orb tornadus can be used for a lot of things, being the everyman(everytornadus) of the torn-t sets. You can run all physical moves, all special moves, a mix of both, heck you could even run bulk up, and the sets would all be good. However, if you are thinking of running a bulky tornadus-t set, I say just run the choice specs one tbh.

What to use it for:
There are just so so many things you can use life orb tornadus for, I honestly just think its the best possible set it could run. You can run icy wind offense where you slow something down with icy wind then kill it with a hard hitting move like superpower or heat wave, or a set up set where you use nasty plot to boost tornadus-t's amazing coverage moves to immense powers. If you are using icy wind offense tornadus-t, I recommend thinking about what you want to beat with it, and investing the needed bulk/speed to beat that pokemon. Life orb tornaus-t is one size fits all in every sense of the word, and it's your decision what that "fits all" is.

Other move options:
Heat wave
Hurricane
Sludge wave
Superpower
Fly
Air slash
Bulk up
Taunt
Substitute
et cetera


There are going to be even more life orb tornadus-t sets that are viable due to its diverse movepool, but icy wind heat wave knock off tornadus-t is just a suggestion.


Anti-stall tornadus:
Due to good speed, power, and passable bulk, tornadus-therian is an excellent user of the move taunt. Additionally, it resists registeel's form of damage body press, which makes it a 100% counter to registeel, no matter what. Tornadus also beats common stall picks like corsola-galar and toxapex.

The set:https://pokepast.es/99a452feaefc06a2
Set details:
Leftovers is used as recovery for passive damage like burns(from scald), 100 damage moves like seismic toss and night shade, and body presses from registeel. Nasty plot allows tornadus-t to actually kill the things it needs to, and keep the battles short to keep passive damage to a minimum. Air slash and heat wave are the preferred coverage moves, as heat wave is used for consistent super effective damage on registeel, and air slash's mediocre damage output is drastically helped with nasty plot, and doesn't risk any crucial misses like hurricane does. The air slash is nice too I guess. As for the evs...

The funny thing about beating stall in 1v1 is it's actually really easy(in my opinion). You need bulk, or speed to beat it, and all you really need is one move: taunt. The evs for torn are just maximizing special attack and hp on torn, so it can beat stuff that isn't stall as well.

Alternate moves:
Rest is a good option for healing off passive damage and possible status afflictions. Healing damage off with roost is also NOT AN OPTION so thanks a lot?. Knock off can be used for specially defensive corsola-galar, if you really need it. Tornadus also does have toxic, but a lot of the common stall mons like toxapex and registeel can't get toxiced at all so I didn't consider it worthy of a whole moveselot.


Choice scarf:
Choice scarf is definitely the gimmickiest and the least probable item for someone to consider when using tornadus. However, because of its amazing speed tier it is able to run choice scarf with the littlest of speed evs and still outspeed the entire unboosted metagame.
The set:
https://pokepast.es/86c16100a2a218fc
Set details:
16 speed gives +1 tornadus-t enough speed to outspeed dragapult, who is most commonly known for its sub-disable sets. 252 attack EV's plus an adamant nature is required for the most damage when using knock off. A knock off from tornadus-t does more than 75 percent to a non-defensive dragapult, meaning that dragapult is unable to set up a sub: 252+ Atk Tornadus-Therian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 246-290 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Even the most defensive dragapult set I found on the set compendium takes more than 60% from a single knock off; 252+ Atk Tornadus-Therian leaving it unable to live a second one: 252+ Atk Tornadus-Therian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 246-290 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Scarf tornadus-t does not require any bulk investment since it can live most hits from pokemon whose choice items have been knocked off. Choice scarf tornadus-therian is a gimmick for sure, but it is one worth considering when building against sub+disable dragapult(100% counter).


Gimmick sets:
Gimmick sets are fun but bad, use at your own risk. Uhhh some stuff I've just been fooling around with are weakness policy bulk up, cause you're fast enough to bulk up against something that might be a threat, and tornadus has great physical coverage that can kill most things at +2.

Endure+custap berry is maybe viable but I couldn't really get it to work. Endure+weakness policy however, is downright AMAZING to use in conjuction with acrobatics, since very few pokemon can handle a +2 acrobatics from tornadus. Unfortunately, in the world of priority, scarfers, and custap users, endure weakness policy is also unviable, aside from a fun gimmick. When using endure weakness I recommend endure, superpower, sludge wave, and acrobatics as the moves. In terms of weakness berry tornadus? Tornadus can't do much to zeraora, and regieleki is so easy to prepare for it's kind of pointless to make tornadus-t do that. Yache berry coouuld be used as darm-g bait cause it can handle cb and cs variants(correct me if I'm wrong), so idk use it if you want. Charti berry tornadus can theoretically always beat aggron, cause it lives head smash and beats metal burst variants with icy wind+superpower.

https://pokepast.es/c5144c0264d8d08a

Conclusion:
Tornadus-therian has many many viable sets and can beat many many pokemon. Simply put, the more people use tornadus-therian, the less predictable it becomes, and THE BETTER IT GETS. This pokemon is an absoltue powerhouse and it is a flying green swiss army knife, put it on your team(do ittt).

 

[XSTATIC COLD]

Adam3560 the reality of the ladder will show you that none of your sets are good.

 

[Adam3560]

Adam3560 the reality of the ladder will show you that none of your sets are good.

You sound like my dad man

 

[XSTATIC COLD]

dude, it's not to flame you. Thanks to contribute to the meta, but your sets beat a minority of mons...

 

[Adam3560]

dude, it's not to flame you. Thanks to contribute to the meta, but your sets beat a minority of mons...

Haha no I was kidding, no hard feelings I just have nothing to do

 

[Adam3560]

New set idea: klefki stall:

The set:https://pokepast.es/37f7f59515a99ee8
I saw someone using this set on the ladder today, they would've beaten my scarf eruption heatran if they had leftovers instead of air balloon. Is there any way this could be optimized? Basically the idea is just to spam protect and sub as pp stall, its not AS effective as something like zapdos but prankster gives you a better matchup against choice scarfers. I would love to see what you guys think, very creative community.

 

[XSTATIC COLD]

Useless vs dark
Useless vs Steel
No rest so not tanky enough to survive
Weak vs all mons which have super effectives attacks

Santa claus doesnt exist bro.

 

[Adam3560]

Useless vs dark
Useless vs Steel
No rest so not tanky enough to survive
Weak vs all mons which have super effectives attacks

Santa claus doesnt exist bro.

Agree with all except Santa

 

[Adam3560]

New set idea: klefki stall:

The set:https://pokepast.es/37f7f59515a99ee8
I saw someone using this set on the ladder today, they would've beaten my scarf eruption heatran if they had leftovers instead of air balloon. Is there any way this could be optimized? Basically the idea is just to spam protect and sub as pp stall, its not AS effective as something like zapdos but prankster gives you a better matchup against choice scarfers. I would love to see what you guys think, very creative community.

Okay okay I think I've worked out a rough draft . I take your hurtful comments about santa claus and my favorite keychain and counter with a great defensive typing, access to prankster rest+protect, and having enough bulk to live one non super-effective hit.

The set: https://pokepast.es/e0fe158d8aa4ff79

Three example battles:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1273323033

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1273324552

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen81v1-1273328921

 

[XSTATIC COLD]

I really hoped it was a prank... but no.

 

[Adam3560]

I really hoped it was a prank... but no.

I appreciate the pun