Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[Pokedom10]

: B- -> C

this thing sucks :(. In any reasonable metagame where Magearna is legal there is practically 0 reason to use this thing. Beyond that Magic Bounce is great but not so great that it requires this thing to automatically be used. In fact I feel like Xatu is probably a better Magic Bounce user. At least that one has some moveset variety. It does have a couple niches so I can't really say it should be unranked, which are mainly on focused TR teams (don't use these) or sun teams (don't use these either, in fact use these even less than TR teams).

: A -> A-/B+

I'm not really seeing what this thing does right now???? And don't get me twisted, I love using it. But I'm finding it harder and harder to put it on teams at the moment, whereas before I was slapping it onto everything I built. More Corviknight, Rillaboom, Lando-T and Garchomp all just really suck for it. I've always been more leaning on Mold Breaker but now I don't see why you would use it without Sand Rush; it needs all the boosts it can get. Basically it's got a horrible awful MU spread of "beats these three top tiers better than anything else, and then loses to every other top tier".

A- -> A

This thing is just silly. With just two moves and a Life Orb it hits hard enough that you never have to worry about what's switching in. Sure you can run your standard coverage... but it's one of very few good options that get both Stealth Rock and Taunt. Now, Heatran gets those two as well. But Heatran is slower and doesn't have a Volt Switch immunity, meaning that Nidoking can potentially force even more uncomfortable plays and get the rocks up reliably. I like using Taunt as well to punish any kind of would-be check, a lot of switch-ins really hate getting taunted. If you find that Taunt isn't working you can just use one of the many tried and true coverage moves Nidoking has to smash things into the dirt.

A-

I don't feel like it should drop but I get why people think it should. Losing its prime purpose as the Pheromosa counter does kinda suck. But I've been slapping it onto teams as a boots defogger with speed and Pressure. It works. Not so much more works than it needs to be to stay A-, but it definitely still works.

UR

I never even saw one on the first day of its inclusion. I think that's kinda telling.

 

[Anirav]

A- -> A
In my opinion, this mon is the most underrated pokemon in OU rn. Besides something like SpDef Slowking, this thing has 0 switch ins. With the combination of life orb and sheer force, this hits like a monster truck. It also has access to great utility moves in toxic spikes, taunt, and stealth rock. I personally don't like running utility moves on Nidoking because I feel the best way to utilize this mon is to constantly attack and pressure your opponent. The set below is the one I prefer to use.
Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Superpower
- Ice Beam/Flamethrower
Sludge wave and EP are strong hitting STABS which are a must on Nidoking. Superpower is mainly there for Blissey and Ttar. Ice beam/Flamethrower depends on what your team needs. I prefer Ice beam for lando/dragons. A well played Nidoking will always pick up a minimum of 1 kill per game. The only time I feel Nidoking really struggles is against hyper offense but that's just about it. With everything it has going for it, I believe it definitely needs to move up a rank.

 

[VTMagno]

Gonna post my opinion on some noms:

A+ > S: Agree. Cinderace is an extremely versatile and splashable mon. Just Pyro Ball, Gunk Shot, HJK and Sucker Punch already destroy all of the tier barring Toxapex to the point where some players (myself included) sometimes forego U-Turn, although it's still a great option as well. Even things that can take some hits from it and have reliable recovery like Mandibuzz or Hippowdon but they're one poison from Gunk Shot away from no longer being able to switch into it.

A > A-/B+: Agree. While I wouldn't go as far as ranking it in B, I do agree Mandibuzz isn't good enough for A rank. I see it as a defensive mon that checks a lot, but none of what it checks is done well. It can check Rillaboom, but fears getting Knocked Off due to its Stealth Rock Weakness and after that it will crumble to banded Wood Hammers if SR is up. It can check Spectrier, but it can break its sub while burned and takes quite a lot from Specs Hex. It can check Cinderace, but one Gunk Shot poison and it's only a matter of time before the bunny gets a kill.

C- > UR: Agree. One fairy type on the opponent's team like the omnipresent Clefable and Magearna and this is dead weight. Even in TR teams it struggles and things like Glastrier, Alolan Marowak and Melmetal are much better picks overall.

B+ > A-: Agree. Kyurem is really good in the meta rn and it's not hard to see why. Most team's Ice resists either die to Freeze Dry or they die to Earth Power. One wrong prediction and suddenly they're a few clicks away from losing most of their mons outright. The Sub 3 Attacks variant that's been popping up recently is also really hard to switch into.

A- > B+/B: Agree. As much as it pains me to say it since Moltres was one of my favorite mons to use in the early DLC 2 days, this thing just isn't good rn and hasn't been since the Pheromosa ban. Melmetal has adapted and started running Rock Slide and Toxic, it fears Knock Off from both Rillaboom and Kartana, can't check Cinderace well since it'll end up crumbling to repeated Gunk Shots. It definetly shouldn't be A- anymore, that's way too high for a mon who can't consistently do what it wishes to.

C+ > B-/B: Definetly agree. I'm glad people are finally picking up on how underrated Zeraora is currently. Lando is admitedly a pain but that's one Toxic away from being worn down very quickly, especially if rocks are up or you also Knock Off its Leftovers. It can check and revenge kill dangerous threats that are rising in the metagame like Spectrier and NP Tornadus-Therian which is greatly appreciated for its team.

 

[Finchinator]

to A+

Tornadus-Therian has been tearing it up recently. It did not live up to the initial hype as an offensive behemoth with the Nasty Plot set paired with Heavy Duty Boots, but both the Nasty Plot and utility sets have been soaring in both popularity and effectiveness recently. Regenerator + Heavy Duty Boots allows for repeated entry, Knock Off + U-turn allows for a great deal of chip and positioning for many threatening teammates, and Nasty Plot + an accurate Hurricane opens the door for some unsuspecting sweeps. Tornadus-Therian may not be the face of the tier yet, but it is quickly becoming one of the best Pokemon and we should have this reflected in its rank.

to A

Slowking-Galar is a fantastic specially defensive pivot that is able to avoid being passive due to Sludge Bomb being the single most infuriating move to switch in to for any non-Steel type ever. It also has superb complimentary coverage and a very practical typing both offensively and defensively due to there being no Pursuit in the game. Slowking-Galar has quickly become a top option on bulky-offense and even balance teams due to these chractersitics. It should strongly be considered for a slight bump up.

 

[Lily]

Hey, not much of an OU player in general but I've been laddering the post-Shifu meta a bit just to try it out and it's been pretty fun. Wanted to talk about a Pokemon I really like using atm and why I think it's super underrated in addition to a cool set that you guys should try on it.


From what I've been able to tell anecdotally, Obstagoon is rising a lot in popularity right now. Some of this is most likely just "strong Dark-type breaker now that Urshifu is gone" but it's honestly got a lot of merit in other ways - it's probably the single best Spectrier counter in the game, it doesn't care a ton about Scald users, its solid bulk and Speed tier makes it a decent offensive check to Excadrill, Nidoking, etc. and in theory this all sounds great, but its main issue is that in practice it doesn't last very long because of Flame Orb chip. However, there's a way to bypass this and I firmly believe it to be Obstagoon's best set at the moment.

Obstagoon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This is a set I came up with alongside Sabella in UU during Snake to abuse stalls and popular fat teams reliant on Pokemon like Slowbro (and its Galarian counterpart) among others. RestTalk is really cool on the goon because of how naturally fat it is and how little it needs its coverage. Close Combat is nice and all but in general it's not *that* useful; it only hits Magearna and Corviknight a little harder than Facade, Ferrothorn and Melmetal are not good long term checks if you remove their item and Excadrill and Heatran can't come in on you to begin with. Switcheroo also kinda sucks and is rarely ever clicked, it's a filler move at best. By using these RestTalk instead, you gain the ability to pivot in super safely on Spectrier for a long ass time, Toxapex [be wary of Knock Off, losing your Flame Orb sucks on this set], Slowbro, Slowking, Galarian Slowking, Dragapult, Blissey, Amoonguss etc. and pretty much just eternally fire off nuclear Facades that honestly aren't easy to switch into in OU.

As you can see in this replay, even teams that don't *seem* Obstagoon weak end up struggling a lot to deal with it. I didn't click Rest or Sleep Talk here but the fact that I had it allowed me to pivot into Slowbro forever without worrying about the chip damage. In this one it just clicked Knock Off forever and because that move is so insanely punishing to switch into it got a lot of work done. And finally in this replay it didn't get to do a lot of breaking but it disrupted the team massively thanks to RestTalk and burned through Toxapex's Recover PP with ease.

Obstagoon's overall just a really good mon in this meta and I think it deserves to rise, it's so much better than all the trash in the C ranks like Togekiss or whatever. I think it deserves a fairly drastic rise, probably B or B+, but I'll leave that decision to the VR team.

 

[gye5]

Hey, not much of an OU player in general but I've been laddering the post-Shifu meta a bit just to try it out and it's been pretty fun. Wanted to talk about a Pokemon I really like using atm and why I think it's super underrated in addition to a cool set that you guys should try on it.


From what I've been able to tell anecdotally, Obstagoon is rising a lot in popularity right now. Some of this is most likely just "strong Dark-type breaker now that Urshifu is gone" but it's honestly got a lot of merit in other ways - it's probably the single best Spectrier counter in the game, it doesn't care a ton about Scald users, its solid bulk and Speed tier makes it a decent offensive check to Excadrill, Nidoking, etc. and in theory this all sounds great, but its main issue is that in practice it doesn't last very long because of Flame Orb chip. However, there's a way to bypass this and I firmly believe it to be Obstagoon's best set at the moment.

Obstagoon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This is a set I came up with alongside Sabella in UU during Snake to abuse stalls and popular fat teams reliant on Pokemon like Slowbro (and its Galarian counterpart) among others. RestTalk is really cool on the goon because of how naturally fat it is and how little it needs its coverage. Close Combat is nice and all but in general it's not *that* useful; it only hits Magearna and Corviknight a little harder than Facade, Ferrothorn and Melmetal are not good long term checks if you remove their item and Excadrill and Heatran can't come in on you to begin with. Switcheroo also kinda sucks and is rarely ever clicked, it's a filler move at best. By using these RestTalk instead, you gain the ability to pivot in super safely on Spectrier for a long ass time, Toxapex [be wary of Knock Off, losing your Flame Orb sucks on this set], Slowbro, Slowking, Galarian Slowking, Dragapult, Blissey, Amoonguss etc. and pretty much just eternally fire off nuclear Facades that honestly aren't easy to switch into in OU.

As you can see in this replay, even teams that don't *seem* Obstagoon weak end up struggling a lot to deal with it. I didn't click Rest or Sleep Talk here but the fact that I had it allowed me to pivot into Slowbro forever without worrying about the chip damage. In this one it just clicked Knock Off forever and because that move is so insanely punishing to switch into it got a lot of work done. And finally in this replay it didn't get to do a lot of breaking but it disrupted the team massively thanks to RestTalk and burned through Toxapex's Recover PP with ease.

Obstagoon's overall just a really good mon in this meta and I think it deserves to rise, it's so much better than all the trash in the C ranks like Togekiss or whatever. I think it deserves a fairly drastic rise, probably B or B+, but I'll leave that decision to the VR team.

I think hydreigon is better counter to spectrier. If u are running scarf, u probably want double kick. It works for me

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Double kick is sacrificing a move slot like wisp, hex, shadow ball, mud shot. It appreciates all of those moves and it beats its own checks with wisp + hex. You can run DK but i dont think the reward is worth

 

[gye5]

Double kick is sacrificing a move slot like wisp, hex, shadow ball, mud shot. It appreciates all of those moves and it beats its own checks with wisp + hex. You can run DK but i dont think the reward is worth

If wanna run DK drop mudd shot

 

[Finchinator]

Going to keep this open during the Spectrier suspect test on the condition that nobody discussed Double Kick Spectrier from this point onwards.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-ss-ou-suspect-process-round-9-old-town-road.3676744/

 

[viet noa]

to A+

Tornadus-Therian has been tearing it up recently. It did not live up to the initial hype as an offensive behemoth with the Nasty Plot set paired with Heavy Duty Boots, but both the Nasty Plot and utility sets have been soaring in both popularity and effectiveness recently. Regenerator + Heavy Duty Boots allows for repeated entry, Knock Off + U-turn allows for a great deal of chip and positioning for many threatening teammates, and Nasty Plot + an accurate Hurricane opens the door for some unsuspecting sweeps. Tornadus-Therian may not be the face of the tier yet, but it is quickly becoming one of the best Pokemon and we should have this reflected in its rank.

to A

Slowking-Galar is a fantastic specially defensive pivot that is able to avoid being passive due to Sludge Bomb being the single most infuriating move to switch in to for any non-Steel type ever. It also has superb complimentary coverage and a very practical typing both offensively and defensively due to there being no Pursuit in the game. Slowking-Galar has quickly become a top option on bulky-offense and even balance teams due to these chractersitics. It should strongly be considered for a slight bump up.

i strongly agree with both of these rises. i was initially underwhelmed by tornadus-t, but now i think most of us are starting to understand how good regenerator compliments its utility AND usage of boots.

assault vest slowking-g has been absolutely awesome, but i am curious if calm mind/nasty plot variants of slowking-g hold any value.

as for spectrier, i feel like moving it to s tier would be reasonable. the amount of utility it has, even in spite of learning only 4 useful attacks, makes it amazing on pretty much any team build. specs makes it an amazing special wallbreaker, scarf makes it a nice revenge killer, but the bulky calm mind set is what’s always fascinated me ever since november. with moves like haze, will o wisp, and disable, as well as naturally passable bulk, teams can get SERIOUSLY messed up if you play it right.

choice band double kick kinda nice tho /j

edit: as much as i love xatu, why is it in c tier??? isn’t it outclassed by pretty much every other magic bounce user?

 

[theotherguytm]

edit: as much as i love xatu, why is it in c tier??? isn’t it outclassed by pretty much every other magic bounce user?

As far as I know, its niche is mostly Teleport. It gets access to other tricks like Defog and Roost, but Teleport is the big one.

 

[Empress Mobile]

edit: as much as i love xatu, why is it in c tier??? isn’t it outclassed by pretty much every other magic bounce user?

I would say its access to Teleport/U-Turn gives it its niche, along with Roost to stay healthy throughout a match. While Ferrothorn's prevalence is certainly nothing new, the fact Xatu completely sits on it by resisting Power Whip and being able to viably run a physically defensive set with Rocky Helmet (plus access to Heat Wave) gives it an edge against one of the premier hazard setters of the current metagame. It's nothing flashy, but I've seen it used to great effect.

 

[ScarfchomperL100]

I would say its access to Teleport/U-Turn gives it its niche, along with Roost to stay healthy throughout a match. While Ferrothorn's prevalence is certainly nothing new, the fact Xatu completely sits on it by resisting Power Whip and being able to viably run a physically defensive set with Rocky Helmet (plus access to Heat Wave) gives it an edge against one of the premier hazard setters of the current metagame. It's nothing flashy, but I've seen it used to great effect.

I would also like to add that thanks to it's flying typing and Magic Bounce, that Xatu is a complete hard counter to common Hippowdon sets, only taking temporary sand damage which can be negated by Leftovers if one chooses.

 

[Jonbot]

Surprised to see gastrodon so high on the list. It isn’t great in a metagame where rillaboom, kartana and ferrothorn are viable, especially when a grassy terrain boosted wood hammer or leaf blade ohko max defence rindo berry. Why is it so in B and not in c or b-?

 

[Jordy]

Surprised to see gastrodon so high on the list. It isn’t great in a metagame where rillaboom, kartana and ferrothorn are viable, especially when a grassy terrain boosted wood hammer or leaf blade ohko max defence rindo berry. Why is it so in B and not in c or b-?

Gastrodon fills a pretty nice niche in the current metagame, checking prominent Pokemon like Zapdos, Galarian Slowking, and Nidoking. It is also generally annoying to switch into Scald and Toxic. Given the other Pokemon in B, I personally believe Gastrodon fits in quite nicely.

 

[qwertyman888]

C+ > B-

Gonna discuss something I haven't seen anyone talk about: Zapdos-Galar being in C+. It's the lowest-ranked mon in OU on this VR. There are NO OTHER MONS FROM OU in C+. It's below Nidoqueen and Hatterene, which I honestly find completely unjustified. It's not the worst mon in OU by a long shot, and its ability combined with its typing make it a underrated and fun-to-use Pokemon to threaten Landorus(and most defoggers) with. It does die on its own sword with recoil from Brave Bird, but it can certainly blow holes in a wide variety of teams.

Please at least put it up there with Shifu-R, I can't stand seeing it so low ;-;

 

[Pokeglace17]

C- > C
C- > C
Both are way better than C-
Primarina will always do something with choice specs, if you anticipate just a little, and that is not counting flip turn, which can allow to pivot on Corviknight or Blissey and gain momentum. This is obviously not a particularly good Pokemon, and it is entirely outclassed in its calm mind sets by Tapu Fini, but C- is just too low. Same thing with Arctozolt hail teams. They don't work very often, but when they work, arctozolt is a monster and extremely hard to handle, so C- is just too low.
C- > C+
Ribombee represents the whole playstyle of sticky web, and that playstyle deserves better. Huge threats can have way easier set up thanks to sticky web, such as calm mind Tapu Lele and swords Dance Terrakion. Sticky web is definitely not a top tier playstyle, like hail, sun and trick room, it remains cringe, but it can also do a lot of work, way more work than C-. C+ is more appropriate for that playstyle, oh and shuckle's there too, but Ribombee definitely has a niche as a web setter in C+. Its powerful moonblast along stun spore gives it a good matchup against common defoggers, (beware of excadrill) and it can just do a lot against unrepared teams.

 

[Bananers]

So now with Spectrier getting suspected, and probably banned, I wanted to talk about a few mons that may drop/rise.

Potential Rises

Blissey

Blissey now doesn't have to run Shadow Ball. This is amazing for Blissey as now it can run something else in that slot that won't just be helpful against one mon. Teleport, Stealth Rock, TWave, who knows but it does gain that if/when Spectrier gets banned.

Dragapult

Ah the king of early Gen 8 OU. This got heavily powercreeped with Spectrier's release and was sort of forced to run Scarf on its already massive 142 Base Speed to not lose to Scarf Spectrier. I see this thing rising back to glory, maybe A tier. Its Specs sets, TWave Hex sets, WoW sets, they are all really solid and now it can run them again. Expect this to pick up in usage.

Slowbro

Slowbro was always good even with Spectrier but now that is one less mon that prevents Bro from getting a Future Sight or a Teleport. I can definitely see the Bro rising.

Potential Drops

Mandibuzz
Even with Spectrier in OU there were talks of this thing dropping. It's ability to check Spec kept it in A but with Spectrier gone, I don't see this thing being A anymore, there are just better options for what it does. I'm expecting A-, but maybe B+, it's up to the Council.

Obstagoon
This was the best Spectrier check in the game, at least in my opinion. But with Spectrier probably getting banned this thing loses a lot of its niche in OU. I see it dropping to C with the other usable dark types from lower tiers.

 

[OvertoneSeries]

So now with Spectrier getting suspected, and probably banned, I wanted to talk about a few mons that may drop/rise.

Potential Rises

Blissey

Blissey now doesn't have to run Shadow Ball. This is amazing for Blissey as now it can run something else in that slot that won't just be helpful against one mon. Teleport, Stealth Rock, TWave, who knows but it does gain that if/when Spectrier gets banned.

Dragapult

Ah the king of early Gen 8 OU. This got heavily powercreeped with Spectrier's release and was sort of forced to run Scarf on its already massive 142 Base Speed to not lose to Scarf Spectrier. I see this thing rising back to glory, maybe A tier. Its Specs sets, TWave Hex sets, WoW sets, they are all really solid and now it can run them again. Expect this to pick up in usage.

Slowbro

Slowbro was always good even with Spectrier but now that is one less mon that prevents Bro from getting a Future Sight or a Teleport. I can definitely see the Bro rising.

Potential Drops

Mandibuzz
Even with Spectrier in OU there were talks of this thing dropping. It's ability to check Spec kept it in A but with Spectrier gone, I don't see this thing being A anymore, there are just better options for what it does. I'm expecting A-, but maybe B+, it's up to the Council.

Obstagoon
This was the best Spectrier check in the game, at least in my opinion. But with Spectrier probably getting banned this thing loses a lot of its niche in OU. I see it dropping to C with the other usable dark types from lower tiers.

This is pure theorymon for a hypothetical Spectrier-less meta that doesn't exist and hasn't been played yet. The viability rankings should not pre-empt bans; they should apply the to meta as it currently is.

Bro should rise and Mandibuzz should drop regardless though.

 

[Bananers]

This is pure theorymon for a hypothetical Spectrier-less meta that doesn't exist and hasn't been played yet. The viability rankings should not pre-empt bans; they should apply the to meta as it currently is.

Bro should rise and Mandibuzz should drop regardless though.

Yeah i know its all theoretical. But i do agree Mandi should drop 100%, even if Spec doesn't get banned.

 

[zelda333]

I'll be the advocate for

to A

While I admit it can be very prediction reliant depending on the matchup, there are very few Pokemon that can come in on specs safely without fearing the 2HKO, or many times OHKO. I've been putting sp def corviknight on many of my teams just for this thing, as there is literally no other OU mon that can take 2 psychic/moonblast/focus blast/psyshock (I guess AV slowbro..?) and recover off. Aegislash and AV magearna are decent answers but without any form of recovery besides leftovers, they get chipped by psychic/shock fairly easily. UU has jirachi, celesteela, and slowking, none of which you really see in OU, the first being forced to run wish/protect for longevity, the second's leech seed protect being decent at best, and the third not really being able to do much back.

The reason I wanted to bring lele up now is because it's only gotten better and will continue to get better with bans. Mosa and urshifu were two that could easily revenge kill it. While we certainly don't know for sure what future bans will look like, and it wouldn't make sense for lele to rise until that point anyway, I wanted to point out that the three most common ban requests (spectrier, mag, and cinderace) are all mons that lele would rather be banned as well. And with spectrier likely seeing the ban hammer soon, I think a lot of immediate reactions will be "woohoo I don't need to run a dark type on every team anymore" which will allow psychics to always get more value.

 

[OvertoneSeries]

Gonna make a few nominations:

Slowbro

- A -> A+
Generally just very good. Its ability to bring in and support dangerous threats is amazing, its status as a physical wall difficult for many of the top physical threats to bypass is great (see the recent rise of Zeraora), and it's just very splashable in general. The combination of Scald and Teleport makes it very scary to switch into, with physical attackers like Kart, Zeraora and Rillaboom being scared of burns, and special breakers like Spectrier and Nidoking potentially staring down offensive checks that get teleported in. Generally one of the defining pieces of the meta IMO.

Hippowdon

- B+ -> A-/A
Really not sure what this thing's doing outside of the A tiers. With the steelbirds being a smaller presence than they've ever been, this guy can have a solid matchup with all the most common defoggers between physdef and spdef, as well as being a very good wall that can chip down things like Cinderace, Zeraora and Koko with sand. Also very good at enabling sand sweepers without stacking up on Lando weaknesses (unlike ttar).

Tapu Koko

- A- -> A
One of the best pivots in the meta. Supports HO with screens/Kokolucha, the specs set is super difficult to switch into without a select handful of pokemon, and the boots pivot deals huge amounts of chip while being a fast u-turner with roost to keep it healthy.

Melmetal

- A+ -> A
Still a strong tank, but slowbro's near-omnipresence can make things difficult for it, and it provides little in terms of utility that other steel types don't. It eats burns and helmet chip from half the meta and generally is pretty difficult to justify on a team over anything else. It needs to decide between missing out on Protect and getting chipped to death, missing out on Toxic and being free switches for Slowbro, or missing out on coverage and letting Pex/Zapdos sit on it.

 

[Faless__]

Now that there have been arguments for two Tapus to rise in the ranking, I think it's also good to discuss the only viable tapu left that isn't Rillaboom.

Tapu Fini should be either A- or B+

Now with Magearna and Cinderace being the two of the best mons in the tier and being super splashable, it's in a very bad place, since there being better defoggers like Corviknight, Zapdos, Tornadus-T and even Hydreigon hurts the defog set, and the Calm Mind set has to deal with being shut down by stuff like Ferrothorn, Blissey and Galarian Slowking together with ultimately not being able to deal enough damage to be a real threat.

Other stuff that hurts Fini's viability is being threatened by too much stuff on the tier, splashable pivots like Zapdos, Galarian Slowking and Tapu Koko deal with it easily, offensive threats like the previously mentioned Magearna and Cinderace, Rillaboom, Kartana, Kyurem and Nidoking can break through it without effort. It doesn't shine a lot compared to the two closest water types to its ranking because both can actually manage Cinderace decently, and even other lower waters like Gastrodon or Swampert, although not having the advantage of misty terrain, have the niche of, the first being able to manage Zapdos and having a water immunity that works well in the Rain matchup, and the second having a good pivoting move and Stealth Rock.

Fini also is in a bad place since it can't really handle anything specific except for maybe Barraksewda, that if it doesn't get worn down by numerous Flip Turns, so it can be really hard to fit in a metagame where team slots are specifically required to check different threats and fuffill different roles, and it being in A while the two other Tapus are in A- when they either fuffill important roles or are an actual threat (Koko is a good pivot with actual reliable recovery, with Specs it can hit a lot of the prominent threats in the metagame for really decent damage, all while working as speed control for the team, and Lele has little good switchins to its specs set, and scarf is decent speed control and can work as a good revenge killers) is simply not really accurate.

I also agree with other nominations posted before that I will post here:
A+ > S
A > A+
A > A+
A- > A
A- > A
A- > A
A- > A
B+ > A-
A+ > A
A > A-/B+

 

[AquaVanilla]

C-->B-

I think keldeo is a very underrated mon in OU, this mon is surprisingly good at what it does. While fini is dropping in usage, keldeo can sweep teams with the calm mind sub set that beats toxapex or it can run specs under rain which hits super hard and be a amazing offensive threat. Although keldeo has 108 speed and cant outspeed mons like cinderace or tornt, it can still outspeed mons like (zapdos, garchomp, hydra, volcarona, tapu lele). Keldeo is a massive threat with mons like slowbro since they can provide fs support and if keldeo is specs it can break toxapex. Keldeo also has access to flip turn meaning it can provide nice momentum.

Lets talk about its checks

This thing is the only counter for keldeo, but fini has no viable recovery meaning it cant switch in repeated hydro pumps from keldeo, future sight also can chip down fini repeatedly making into keldeo range. Tapu fini has trouble with keldeo since it gets chipped every time it comes in on keldeo, but its still a good solid check to it.

Toxapex is a good check to keldeo, but its got some problems to deal with keldeo, TOXAPEX does not beat sub cm taunt keldeo, taunt from keldeo means it can shutdown haze and it makes toxapex setup fodder for keldeo and it can sweep teams. Now lets talk about specs keldeo, although specs keldeo cant break toxapex, in rain it can 2hitko toxapex. Keldeo with future sight and specs can breakthrough toxapex super well. Although toxapex can wall specs keldeo, its still gonna be wary of future sight and cm sub keldeo.

Slowking-galar is a decent check to keldeo with assault vest, since its 3hitkoed by specs hydro from keldeo, but like i said with fs support it can break through slowking-galar very well, also is 2hitkoed by specs hydro under rain.

Lets talk about the things that can revenge kill keldeo.

Tapu koko is a massive threat to keldeo, but tapu koko can not switch in well, since its very frail with only 75 spdef which means keldeo can erase tapu koko from existence with a hydro pump under rain.

Scarf lele can revenge kill keldeo, but same as koko it cant switch into keldeos hydro pump meaning it will just die to a hydro specs from keldeo.

Tornadus-Therian can kill keldeo with hurricane, although it has regen, this mon cannot switch into keldeos hydro pump that well, you can try to predict a secret sword or a focus blast from keldeo, but you risk getting yourself killed by a specs hydro.

Rillaboom can revenge kill keldeo with grassy glide but rillaboom really hates repeated secret swords and hydro pumps.


Although keldeo isnt as good as it was in its previous gens, i dont want this mon to be in the same rank as in mons like mimikyu or incineroar, i think this mon deserves a respectable B- tier, since it hits super hard with specs and can beat its checks super well and is very good with future sight support, this pony deserves to be in B-. Its a nice good offensive threat in this meta. (btw dont use scarf keldeo its ass) :D

CALCS
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Toxapex in Rain: 137-162 (45 - 53.2%) -- 31.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex in Rain: 148-175 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini in Rain: 161-189 (46.8 - 54.9%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 80+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar in Rain: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 80+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 139-165 (35.2 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 339-399 (120.6 - 141.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 292-345 (80.6 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 750-884 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Bananers]

Zapdos-Galar C+->B-/B

Seen some others talk about this mon and I agree, it definitely isn't the worst OU mon by a long shot (I would personally give that to Eleki but thats a discussion for another day). Being the only Defiant user in OU gives it a very good niche on Webs HO to punish Defog. Slap a Band on it and you got a pretty strong mon. Say this comes in on a Moltres Defog.

+2 252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Drill Peck vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 415-489 (108 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Destroyed. Now of course you have the threat of getting Flame Bodied, but thats a trade I'd be willing to take as it gets rid of a potential stop to a Cinderace sweep.

Zapdos-G even hits for a lot of damage on resist.

+2 252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Zapdos: 325-383 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Come in on a Defog, and with a little chip Zapdos is history.
Now you may be thinking, well if they see you have Zapdos-g they just won't defog. But thats the thing. On webs if it stays up it is devastating. A sweeper such as Nidoking or Adamant Cinderace can just straight sweep you with webs up. So its sorta a win win.

Now sure Zapdos-G has its downsides. It is pretty weak to chip and doesn't have good recovery. But those apply to Regieleki which is a whole 2 subtiers above it, and Eleki is a sitting duck if a ground type, one of the best types in OU, is on the field. So thats why I am nomming Zapdos-G to at least B-, but I think it is a B mon.

EDIT: and btw, you can take my word for this, I will make a long post on why Regieleki is an awful mon in OU. Just wait