Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[gye5]

I also agree w the reasons u gave. I def support mence to be ranked but only till C- rather than C+ which is a bit of a stretch.

Btw when would the vr update. I feel like its high time for it

C- is too low, so you think mons like toxtricity, salazze, seismitoad should be ranked higher

 

[The Monday Sundae]

Yeah Salamence should definitely be ranked. It's heavily outclassed as others mentioned, but it's not terrible. Others have pretty much said most of what I think about Mence, but one unique and notable thing about it is that Moxie gives it immediate snowball potential that most other pokemon don't have. Pult is definitely a much better late-game cleaner in general, but Salamence's extra power combined with Moxie gives it a (small) niche that makes it more than completely unviable.

I don't know where exactly it should be ranked but C sounds about right.

 

[death dreigon]

C- is too low, so you think mons like toxtricity, salazze, seismitoad should be ranked higher

Yes cuz mixed toxtricity is just inconsistent but isn't completely outclassed by anything and could shred any team that underestimates it.Salazzle is also unique role as it could toxic the likes of pex or mage,mon u could only toxic through this while sub also gives it some more utility against a favourable matchup. And seismitoad is the only physical rain sweeper that has swift swim.All of these r inconsistent but not outclassed as bad as mence is.mence not only is inconsistent but anything it wants to do is done better by something else and has like one or two perks over them that r pretty negligible over them

 

[YeetYolk07]

Yes cuz mixed toxtricity is just inconsistent but isn't completely outclassed by anything and could shred any team that underestimates it.Salazzle is also unique role as it could toxic the likes of pex or mage,mon u could only toxic through this while sub also gives it some more utility against a favourable matchup. And seismitoad is the only physical rain sweeper that has swift swim.All of these r inconsistent but not outclassed as bad as mence is.mence not only is inconsistent but anything it wants to do is done better by something else and has like one or two perks over them that r pretty negligible over them

Only physical rain sweeper with swift swim?? I might have missed something here but seismitoad is heavily outclassed by barraskewda as a rain sweeper on the physical side and kingdra on the special.

 

[gye5]

Yeah Salamence should definitely be ranked. It's heavily outclassed as others mentioned, but it's not terrible. Others have pretty much said most of what I think about Mence, but one unique and notable thing about it is that Moxie gives it immediate snowball potential that most other pokemon don't have. Pult is definitely a much better late-game cleaner in general, but Salamence's extra power combined with Moxie gives it a (small) niche that makes it more than completely unviable.

I don't know where exactly it should be ranked but C or C+ sounds about right.

C+ because pult still in most cases the superior choice (like to use both on my6same team to overwhelm pixies)

The issue with is that he is heavily outclassed by other mons.

Want a physically bulky but also threatening Mon? Use or

Want a purely special threat that can beat 1 on 1? Use or or even

Want a DD sweeper? Use

Want a late game cleaner? Use .

Want a wish Mon with offensive pressure? Not actually sure about this, but seems like it outclasses Mence. Plus, outclasses Mence on the bulk aspect

Mence just doesn't stand out in any particular way. Perhaps someone innovates with a great Mence set, and I've tried so many, but they come so short from reliable game to game threats.

I don't have an issue supporting this nom, it's just C+, but I don't see the niche this set has that other special attackers can't do.

Jirachi as a wish passer isnt really better than mence, one counter ace and boom, the most dangerous physical mons in the tier. Jirachi fails to check things is supposed like set up mag, rilaboom, and others

ausma edit: please don't double post; compressed your posts together

 

[death dreigon]

Only physical rain sweeper with swift swim?? I might have missed something here but seismitoad is heavily outclassed by barraskewda as a rain sweeper on the physical side and kingdra on the special.

For most yes seismitoad is outclassed by barraskewda thanks for pointing this out. But it has ground stab to get rid of fhe likes of pex which alone makes it competition better than that of mence

 

[YeetYolk07]

For most yes seismitoad is outclassed by barraskewda thanks for pointing this out. But it has ground stab to get rid of fhe likes of pex which alone makes it competition better than that of mence

I mean it's not like barraskewda struggles that much with pex.

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 158-186 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[musiquepkmn]

Only physical rain sweeper with swift swim?? I might have missed something here but seismitoad is heavily outclassed by barraskewda as a rain sweeper on the physical side and kingdra on the special.

As death dreigon mentioned Seismitoad does have niches over Kingdra. Kingdra often runs Choice Specs, which means it is very prediction reliant when trying to hit things like Rillaboom or Toxapex on switch-in. Seismitoad is also able to Demolish even the more specially defensive pexes running around, which Specs Kingdra cannot. Seismitoad's biggest standout factor is its great defensive typing which provides it with an electric immunity, useful for a team filled with water types.

I mean it's not like barraskewda struggles that much with pex.

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 158-186 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yea then pex regens out into Lando or Corviknight and all of a sudden Barraskewda hit Toxapex for 30% rather than 60%.

 

[qwertyman888]

Bisharp C -> A
This is something I haven't seen too much talk about. I feel like his speed tier and solid attack make him a considerable threat. It is extremely potent if it can swap into a defog turn and can run away with the game. Additionally, with the ability to run strong STAB including sucker punch make it a formidable threat to most teams. This is just mainly based on my play against him on ladder but I have found him often very difficult to deal with.

What? Bisharp as a defog deterrent is overall worse than Zapdos-Galar. It's speed tier is much worse and relies on good Sucker Punch play to break offense. Zap-G's STABS are better as well. Bisharp's only real niche is on HO. I'd be fine with Bisharp in B- or even B, as long as Gapdos rises too, but Bisharp is NOT up there with Tornadus-T, Rillaboom, Tapu Fini, and Slowbro. Not even close.

 

[Niftyyyy]

I also agree w the reasons u gave. I def support mence to be ranked but only till C- rather than C+ which is a bit of a stretch.

Btw when would the vr update. I feel like its high time for it

Finchinator is the slowest VR updater there has been but at least he consistently gets it done and does a good job with it.

I nominate Cinderace for S rank. Imo cinderace has been S rank for at least a couple of months now. It is not as good as it was before the new DLC though because it has more trouble fitting zen headbutt for Toxapex when it now wants to have HJK for Heatran switch ins. This is enough to give a strong anti ban argument but not enough to prevent it being S rank imo.

 

[Bananers]

Slowking-Galar A- -> A/A+

This mon is SO good. I wasn't sold on it at first but the more I used it the more I liked it. AV can tank any special hit like its nothing and on top it adds on really nice offensive pressure, unlike Blissey.

I have also found a really interesting way to use this mon. As a trapper. With Future Sight plus its great coverage options it can simply come in on a Pex for example, Future Sight, and then use a coverage move to cover a switch like Ferrothorn. Sure you get knocked by pex but taking one of the opponents potential stops to a sweeper is a great trade, in my opinion.

 

[BT89]

A+ —> A

I personally think Toxapex is overrated in the current meta. Most people will overestimate its abilities to wall most of the meta, and while it is able to wall quite a few mons, as you go higher on the tiering poll, there are just more and more Pokemon that are capable of breaking Pex. Not only this, but in a meta where FuturePort is so relevant, it gets broken too easily. It also gets 2HKOed by relevant offensive threats, such as Garchomp, which it loses to 1 on 1. Overall, really good, just not on the same level as Garchomp, Landorus Therian, and others.

 

[Obsidian297]

I'm very unsure on Pex's viability and it feels like a lot of people here are too. It's a very good wall, but it's not as reliable as it used to. The fact that people believe it's broken speaks to how much people are confused on this mon's Viability.

I think it's between A and A+ for sure, and any lower is dishonest to its strengths.

I'd like to request an experienced player to share their view on Pex, so this ambiguity is removed or at least clarified upon.

 

[BT89]

I'm very unsure on Pex's viability and it feels like a lot of people here are too. It's a very good wall, but it's not as reliable as it used to. The fact that people believe it's broken speaks to how much people are confused on this mon's Viability.

I think it's between A and A+ for sure, and any lower is dishonest to its strengths.

I'd like to request an experienced player to share their view on Pex, so this ambiguity is removed or at least clarified upon.

I agree with this. Pex’s viability right now is quite ambiguous, with it being able to wall most things worse than it and being beat by most things above it. It’s a very awkward place to say the least.

 

[Lando-San]

Stay A+

I'm on the boat of Pex should stay A+. As any defensive mon, it has other mons that can break through, but its defensive prowees are amazing in the metagame. The PhysDef set is able to handle Cinderace outside of the Zen Headbutt that can be scouted with Baneful Bunker, which also allows it to cripple other U-turn users, which is great on this metagame where everything uses boots and is hard to wear down things. On the other hand, you can run SpDef Pex to handle Magearna, which is other of the absurd threats the tier has to offer right now. Being able to handle both of those threats is great.
The mons that threaten Toxapex hasn't changed, so, i don't feel it has to go down.

 

[qwertyman888]

Gonna agree with Lando-San here; I think Toxapex should stay A+ for being the ultimate staple on stall and one of our best Cinderace checks right now. It's not a glueable mon like Corviknight, but in my opinion, it shouldn't drop until Ace is banned. Also gonna say this right now: Toxapex isn't broken, and by no means did it deserve to be on the newest surveys; it's just good in general. No idea why people hate it so much, we literally spam Future Sight now.

 

[Finchinator]

For the sake of transparency, here is a rough timeline of how I picture things moving forward:

• Work towards a VR update starting on Thursday or Friday
• SS OU Tiering Survey results posted on Friday or Saturday
• VR update posted on Sunday or Monday
• Potential tiering response to tiering survey over the week or so following this

All of this is subject to change, but people have been asking about updates and we have a lot going on right now. PM me if you have further questions.

 

[MrHands]

For the sake of transparency, here is a rough timeline of how I picture things moving forward:

• Work towards a VR update starting on Thursday or Friday
• SS OU Tiering Survey results posted on Friday or Saturday
• VR update posted on Sunday or Monday
• Potential tiering response to tiering survey over the week or so following this

All of this is subject to change, but people have been asking about updates and we have a lot going on right now. PM me if you have further questions.

I legitimately don't understand how you can even find time in the day to do all the things you do, especially on top of frequent updates to your Youtube channel. You're a machine.

But at the same time, don't work yourself to death. The world won't end if the VR don't get updated for a few weeks.

 

[ausma]

While we're here, I figure I'll dump some additional thoughts as far as what's currently on the table and lob a couple more noms before the slate ends.

Slowking-Galar: A- to A

Agreed. This Pokemon has been making incredible waves the past couple of months, and I feel as though its rank should definitely rise to reflect this. I don't feel as though it is worthy just yet of A+ since it lacks the glue-like attributes of other A+ contenders, however, it is bar none my favorite special wall in the tier with its genuinely incredible coverage being able to pressure anything willing to take on its dual STABs, powerful Future Sight, remarkable stats, and access to Regenerator letting it operate with incredible consistency for teams in need of a specially bulky pivot. I think my favorite thing about it, though, is its lack of passiveness. Being able to actually adapt to potentially sour matchups such as Trick or switch-ins to its STABs with its natural strength and coverage respectively is a huge standout, imo, especially against the increasingly popular Choice Specs Magearna and how difficult it can be to reliably swap in against it without forcing damage on valuable allies. I think it's definitely worth a rise.

Toxapex: A+ to A

Although I understand the discussion against it, I'm inclined to disagree. In my opinion, Toxapex only really has one major weakness right now, that being Future Sight. This can be a pretty big issue as with Future Sight active, reliably checking what it is supposed to check can be a really tall order and force progress against the Toxapex user. However, barring that, Toxapex is still one of the most reliable walls and checks to Magearna in the tier with Regenerator and a godlike defensive typing, making it a top tier glue that's able to take on the onslaught of a lot of threats like Cinderace, Magearna, and Melmetal, and provide valuable reinforcement for balance teams that can force progress of its own using Scald/Knock Off.

Zeraora: C+ to B+/A-

I agree, but not to A- just yet. I remember initially agreeing with the B- nomination, however, SPL use has really shown just how valuable its niche as a Knock Off/Toxic user actually is. However, it's mostly seen use with Close Combat, which is also very effective, as Knock Off alone can lay out a lot of necessary pressure to Landorus-T by removing its only form of recovery and allow Zeraora to pick off Ferrothorn and Heatran after some prior chip damage. It's also shown just how effective of a wincon it can be even despite that fact, being a dope pivot and progress forcer and cleaning up the rubble in the endgame with its phenomenal speed tier and STAB Plasma Fists alongside CC + Knock Off. It can be prone to chip damage, however. Though, overall, I think i'd like to see a bit more use with it before I agree with A-. Its a surprisingly viable pick.

Cinderace: A+ to S

Easily agreed; it's probably the best offensive glue in the tier, and one that has incredibly explosive potential with its setup variants on HO cores. A fairly obvious rise, in my opinion, that doesn't really need to be parroted.

Dragapult: A- to A

Agreed! Even with Spectrier in the tier, the merit of its Hex and Specs variants have really shined, and it can perform phenomenally on Balance Offense, Balances, and VoltTurns in need of a speedy Dragon-type and general purpose wallbreaker that is able to provide momentum. With its Hex variant, it can also be a pretty great wincon as well in a similar vein to Zeraora, using its utility and pivoting abilities to butter up walls, and then clean using its STAB of choice. However, even from a comparative POV, its defensive typing and status lets it stand out a bit more, especially now that its main competition is removed from the tier.

Corviknight: A- to A/A+

I 100% agree with this. Although I'm not sure where I'd put it yet, I would be comfortable with either tier. Although it initially faced quite a bit of competition as a Defog user, its defensive typing has really been highlighted by the metagame's need for a reliable Garchomp check, and luckily Corviknight is pretty damn good at providing that, removal for balances, and other really nifty matchups against such things as Rillaboom or Landorus-T. I think the thing about Corviknight that lets it really stand out in the current climate, though, really is its typing. Although it provides the unique, aforementioned benefits, being able to afford Leftovers or, imho the preferable option of a Rocky Helmet, lets it not be as prone to Knock Off and even punish pivoting attempts with the latter item choice.

Tornadus-Therian: A to A+

Yeah, Torn-T is shaped like an absolute threat, so this is an easy agree from me. We've been seeing an uprise of Nasty Plot variants, which are utterly devastating to handle due to its super spammable Hurricane and access to very solid coverage in Focus Blast/Heat Wave to punish potential Hurricane switch-ins, or even Knock Off/U-Turn to force progress/garner momentum. It's just, really good.

--

With all of this in mind, I'd like to make a quick nom that's been on my mind lately:

Slowbro: A -> A+

In my eyes, I feel as though Slowbro has earned a place in the A+ ranks. To me, it is probably the best defensive glue and progress forcer in the entire tier. Not only is it attributed with amazing resistances and natural bulk, but it is one of two Pokemon to be graced with the most unique, yet most deadly combination of synergistic attributes we've seen in the tier for a long while. In case that's not obvious, that would be Future Sight + Regenerator + Teleport. Not only is it able to gain momentum super easily using Teleport, but it is able to heal back potential damage it takes as it pivots, while also being able to easily get in a wallbreaker to capitalize upon its Future Sight with. It just does so much, and it's such an effective enabler and backbone component that keeping it in A, to me, is really underselling just how much it provides for bulky offense and balance teams. There's a lot I could say about Slowbro, but I find myself usually having a pretty easy time giving it a place on teams in general despite a few less-than-great weaknesses keeping it from joining the higher A+/S tiers.

 

[qwertyman888]

I actually have one more nomination I want to make, and this one's a bit outlandish, but bear with me:
C to C+

I've found Keldeo to be really, really fun, especially with Choice Specs. Its dualstabs have quite a few resistances in the tier, and yet it still manages to surprise a TON of teams. Most sand teams have NO switchins to this thing. Secret Sword especially sells it for me; it threatens Blissey without setup as a special attacker, which I find really, really neat. I usually use this set:

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Flip Turn

Keldeo got Flip Turn this generation, and it's quite great; you can click it on, say, a Heatran, and pivot to something to threaten any answer the opponent brings in to check Keldeo. In a pivot-spammy meta, it's a very nice way for Keldeo to fit in. But it's also walled by two prominent meta threats.

Tapu Fini easily walls Keldeo, and is the best answer the meta has to it. The only thing Keldeo can even do to it is Flip Turn on the switch, which helps it out a bit but doesn't change the fact that it is absolutely stonewalled. Luckily, Tapu Fini doesn't have real recovery, which is nice.

Pex walls most Keldeo on its own, but Future Sight is really common right now, and Future Sight+Keldeo is as great as it sounds; with Future Sight up and accurate prediction, Keldeo can rip through most fat teams; if Toxapex actually decides to come in, it just takes the FS damagee, and that's a LOT of free chip.

Keldeo has one more wall in Slowking. It's uncommon, but not impossible to find in the meta, and it does pretty well (it doesn't fold to Future Sight either):
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 123-146 (31.2 - 37%) -- 79.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 90-107 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- 51% chance to 4HKO

And no, Slowbro doesn't do as well(assuming helmet).
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 160-189 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Overall fun mon, and having walls doesn't make it horrible by any means. Future Sight makes it a decent threat and it deserves C+ at least.

It has potential I promise

 

[gye5]

I actually have one more nomination I want to make, and this one's a bit outlandish, but bear with me:
C to C+/B-

I've found Keldeo to be really, really fun, especially with Choice Specs. Its dualstabs have quite a few resistances in the tier, and yet it still manages to surprise a TON of teams. Secret Sword especially sells it for me; it threatens Blissey without setup as a special attacker, which I find really, really neat. I usually use this set:

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Flip Turn

Keldeo got Flip Turn this generation, and it's quite great; you can click it on, say, a Heatran, and pivot to something to threaten any answer the opponent brings in to check Keldeo. In a pivot-spammy meta, it's a very nice way for Keldeo to fit in. But it's also walled by two prominent meta threats.

Tapu Fini easily walls Keldeo, and is the best answer the meta has to it. The only thing Keldeo can even do to it is Flip Turn on the switch, which helps it out a bit but doesn't change the fact that it is absolutely stonewalled. Luckily, Tapu Fini doesn't have real recovery, which is nice.

Pex walls most Keldeo on its own, but Future Sight is really common right now, and Future Sight+Keldeo is as great as it sounds; with Future Sight up and accurate prediction, Keldeo can rip through most fat teams; if Toxapex actually decides to come in, it just takes the FS damagee, and that's a LOT of free chip.

Keldeo has one more wall in Slowking. It's uncommon, but not impossible to find in the meta, and it does pretty well (it doesn't fold to Future Sight either):
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 123-146 (31.2 - 37%) -- 79.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 90-107 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- 51% chance to 4HKO

And no, Slowbro doesn't wall Keldeo in the slightest.

Now that you metion keldeo, is a threat that is usually not seeing but I found out that specs under rain and spikes can overwhelm even pex just nuke eveything else give it a try. Make your calcs if you want to be sure

 

[qwertyman888]

Now that you metion keldeo, is a threat that is usually not seeing but I found out that specs under rain and spikes can overwhelm even pex just nuke eveything else give it a try. Make your calcs if you want to be sure

Oh yeah. Forgot to mention it's a monster on rain as well. EXTREMELY fun with either rain or Future Sight, I've just gravitated toward the latter recently

 

[Tapichoa]

So this has probably already been beaten to death, but honestly,

B -> B-/C+

This thing is just bad. It should have stayed in UU. I swear people only use it outside of screens because it's a funny gimmick mon that has just an ounce of realistic viability. Comparing it to other mons currently sitting in B, it sticks out like a sore thumb. There's no way you can tell me this thing is on the same level as Hawlucha, Volcarona, Skarm, etc.. We all already know what's wrong with this thing: a lack of coverage allowing it to be walled by the omnipresent ground type. Spoiler alert: that kills it.

As a specs wallbreaker, I mean. Just have a ground mon on your team, and this thing is left Swifting helplessly, praying to do some damage on your ground switch in. Bulky grasses work here too. It's a complete deadweight until the grounds are down, and it just drains so much momentum until that happens. Maybe you can use it as fodder or something idk lol. That aside, Tapu Koko is just a better electric specs user since it can actually hit grounds with Dazzling Gleam or Grass Knot for decent damage.

The screens set is serviceable, but personally, I think Tapu Koko equally as good (if not a better choice) anyways. Clearing hazards is nice and all, and Explosion is also nice, but imo the utility Tapu Koko gives with Taunt and Electric Terrain is superior. The competition is heavy here, and I don't think Regieleki outperforms Tapu Koko as a screens setter enough (or at all) to merit such a high ranking in conjunction with the often-deadweight specs set.

 

[Bananers]

Melmetal A+ -> A-

This thing hits like a truck sure, but the meta is not very kind to it right now, and 4MSS is massive. You want 5 different moves with this thing. DIB, Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, EQ, and Protect. If you aren't running DIB, why are you running this. If you aren't running Protect you are weak to chip damage like Rocky Helmet and Knock Off/other chip moves. If you aren't running Thunder Punch you are walled by Slowbro, Moltres, and the Flying/Steels. If you aren't running Ice Punch you are walled by Zapdos. If you aren't running EQ you are walled by Pex (if no thunder punch) and Sub Defensive Aegislash. Like I said this thing still hits hard but 4MSS is really tough and the meta hits it pretty hard.

And oh yeah, 252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 124-148 (40.7 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. Thunder Punch doesn't break Toxapex. So EQ is necessary to have a chance.

 

[viet noa]

down to B+ or lower

i can understand that it’s good at setting up sand and stealth rocks. with that being said, outside of maybe getting off a twave, i don’t see a lot of utility in this pokémon. the issue is that it has little to no recovery, meaning it gets worn down very easily. even in spite of all the investments in bulk it has, it still can’t do much against many offensive threats.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 206-246 (50.9 - 60.8%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Libero Cinderace High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 532-628 (131.6 - 155.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 494-582 (122.2 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 224-266 (55.4 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

so in spite of being a defensive pokémon, it really can’t risk switching in on many offensive pokémon. unfortunately that doesn’t sound like an A tier pokémon, in my opinion at least.

it seems like a great defensive tank on paper, but its lack of recovery holds it back tremendously. and frankly, i think hippowdon is better. just my opinion tho

edit: this pokémon is in the same tier as slowking-g and tapu koko ._.