Resource SS ZU Viability Rankings v2 - Update @236

[5gen]

Hello all, results are in! Here is the voting sheet.

Articuno ranked at A-

Rises

Coalossal C+ to B
Cradily UR to C
Crustle UR to C
Ferroseed A- to A
Kabutops B to A-
Kingler B+ to A-
Liepard B to B+
Lilligant UR to C
Ludicolo B- to A-
Magneton B+ to A+ (was banned)
Malamar C to B-
Manectric C+ to B
Ninetales C+ to B+
Perrserker C to B-
Qwilfish A to A+
Rotom-F B- to B
Runerigus C- to C
Silvally-Ground A to A+
Stunfisk UR to B-
Stunfisk-G B to B+
Tangela B+ to A
Thwackey B to B+
Trevenant B- to B
Whiscash UR to C

Drops

Abomasnow C to UR
Avalugg C- to UR
Beartic C- to UR
Cofagrigus A to A-
Cramorant B+ to B-
Exeggutor C+ to C
Golbat B- to C+
Hippopotas C- to UR
Jellicent B to B-
Miltank A- to B+
Musharna C- to UR
Piloswine A to A-
Rotom-S A to A-
Sandslash C to C-
Silvally-Dark B+ to B-
Silvally-Poison C+ to C-
Silvally-Water C to C-
Throh B- to C
Type: Null B to C

Because Magneton was banned, we plan to have another VR update within two weeks or so. Discussion points should revolve around that (i.e Pokemon that increase or decrease in viability post-Magneton).

 

[viet noa]

to B+, maybe A-

my points from my last post still remain. the combination of specs tbolt and overheat makes switching into manectric’s attacks a nightmare, especially since manectric stands out as a stronger and faster specs user than rotom. it’s able to completely obliterate opponents like ferroseed, without having to rely on trick. nevertheless, it still cripples walls with switcheroo just like rotom does with trick. i think rotom is still an overall better pokémon due to its utility, but manectric is one of the most potent choice item users out there. it even stands out as the fastest scarf user in zu.

also, with kingler and clawitzer being in publ now, alongside magneton being banned, this gives manectric far less competition as a choice item user.

 

[kay]

Raises:

B+ --> A-
Rapidash is such an amazing meta call right now (namely the bulky utility sets) with its ability to instantly improve your match up against Frosmoth, Nintales, Centiskorch, Thwackey, and dgleam Alcremie. On top of being amazing glue its also a huge pain to switch into fast fire/ground coverage when backed with toxic, so when teams struggle to not only switch into it but also break it while it invalidates core parts of teams, it really feels good.

A --> A+
Rock blast Garbodor is one of the few spikers that can reliably get past Articuno while also applying immense pressure on your opponent with the ever present rocky helmet + aftermath combo that can make things like Skorch feel like dead weight as long as its alive in a more proactive way than Qwilfish can. Garbs really sitting at the top of the meta right now as its incredibly hard to actually break and turns certain pokemon into liabilities with its ability to soft check half the tier just by being alive even at 10% hp

B+ --> A-
Slowly but surely the metas been swinging back to Rhydons favor to claim its spot in the meta we all knew it had the potential to take. Rockers that can directly deal with Articuno are huge asset to teams right now and Rhydons able to do that while also sporting its electric immunity, normal resistance, fire resistance, and enough bulk to shrug off the secondary stabs/coverage options aimed at it. While the best set for it is defensively EV'd, you can definitively run it as an offensive rocker or even as a RP + SD sweeper and its still fantastic.

B+ --> A-
It took a few bans but Ninetales much like Rhydon is finally claiming its spot in the limelight. With its ability to soft check Frosmoth while covering the coveted higher then 95 speed tier, Tales can take off in a lot of match ups when given the opportunity of 1 boost thanks to its amazing coverage. Not a ton to say about it other then its just really solid outside being pretty weak before setting up which I think keeps it out of the higher A's.

B- --> B+
A lot of people were saying Stunfisk was going to die off after the Magnet ban but its been able to hold its ground as a premiere special sponge being able to wall out the likes of Ninetales, Rotom, Mane, Skuntank ect which its galarian counterpart fails to be able to do. With access to Toxic as well its able to constantly apply pressure to Articuno teams as well which is a huge boost for it with how the meta is shaping out.

(dark)
B- --> B+
People kinda forgot about this and I've been able to sneak up on a lot of people not expecting it and blow teams open with it. Darks are insanely good in the meta right now and vally dark is able to not only play to those strengths but also abuse the fact its the only vally form that can muscle past Persian-a with x-scissor and seriously dent Tangela with multi-attack. With access to x-scissor as your coverage option it frees you up to be able to run flame charge which can instantly win the game in some spots which makes this super dangerous.


Drops:

A- --> B/B+
Articuno is proving to be a powerhouse in the meta which has left Piloswine in the unfortunate lose-lose of having to either accept you're never useful in the articuno or semi stall match ups or start teching stone edge and losing what really made it good in the first place with priority coming from your offensive rocker, which at that point you really just have to ask yourself why you're not using Rhydon.

B+ --> B-
This hasn't been relevant in a long time. Its no longer really staple on any cores and has largely fallen by the wayside with teams opting for different rockers as what miltank offers no longer is of much metagame value currently.

(ghost)
A --> B+
This was really good at abusing miltank cores but that day is long past. I think this drop has been a long time coming as its pretty much non existent right now as defensive cores just aren't nearly as bothered by the fact it can set up a sub and be immune to seismic toss. In the right match ups it still can be scary but it falls way below the other A ranked mons.

B- --> C
We lack any good set up sweepers you'd need something like Ditto for. Its not good for the Silvally, Frosmoth, and Cofa which is a huge issue for justifying it on a team. Its just not relevant anymore

 

[5Dots]

C -> B-
An outstanding Uxie (and against electric types in general) matchup and a fantastic matchup against Voltturn teams makes this ghostly rune a strong anti-meta threat, something Cofagrigus wishes it could do. It could offer to run offensive to wreck unprepared leads as its attack is great for a defensive SR setter. Much like Cofagrigus, it also has a wide utility movepool, as it can perform the traditional ID + BP wincon, or cripple opponents via other methods, such as Toxic Spikes or Will o Wisp.

C+ -> B-
Magneton‘s departure and Stunfisks being less demanding to answer it means good news for Klinklang. Stall being eased of mag? Not yet. Klinklang can still pull off its traditional shift gear set and blow by Audino + Pyuku teams like nobody’s business.

C->B-
With weather being more prominent (not you sand), Leafeon gets more time out to be in the sun as an extremely dangerous wallbreaker that can destroy fat teams. It’s hard to stomach its hits, especially at +2. Ferroseed shivers at the thought of knock off/weather ball, and even resists like Skunktank want nothing to do with solar blade at +2.

 

[Jett]

Two important noms that have been left out so far:


A+ to S.
I think that Kangaskhan is the best Pokemon in the current meta, given how strong cheese (Rain, Grassy Terrain, even Sun) are, and how good priority, especially Fake Out, is when it comes to neutralising these sort of teams and buying turns against them. It is also amazing against the archetypes more associated with a standard metagame such as Bulky Offense and Balance, and is particularly good at keeping most of the Choice Scarf users on these team in check (screw Sawk). Kangaskhan itself has become a staple on these teams mainly due to its incredibly offensive presence, although its naturally solid bulk give it opportunities to break past teams even without pivoting, and it has the added bonus of being great against Silvally-Ghost.


A to A+.
Tangela is incredible at the moment due to the abundance of physical threats in the metagame, and its ability to blanket check most of these Pokemon while preserving momentum thanks to Regenerator meaning fewer turns need to be wasted on recovering. Its generally utility is very solid in general, and it alone forced several physical attackers to run options to deal with it specifically, such as Silvally formes occasionally opting for a special attack such as Flamethrower or Ice Beam. While I do think it is a little overrelied on in builder, this is mainly due to its great role compression as a physical wall which isn't overly passive, and a great defensive pivot for several different archetypes (stall, semi-stall, and balance mainly).

 

[kay]

Few noms I left out of my other post but I wanted to still get the nominations in

S --> A+
This one to me has been a long time coming. Right now rockers are under serious pressure to be the defensive glue of a team and Uxie really only holds the slot of "rocker fighting resist" which a lot of teams can do without and need other rockers for their defensive utility. Where Uxie really shines right now is pretty much solely on volt turn or weather, and while they're incredible play styles right now I think its a bit of a stretch to have this mon still in S especially when its never getting rocks down vs Articuno.

A+ --> S
Pretty much what Jett said. Kanga is the defining feature of a lot of balance teams right now as it instantly gives you a winning match up against so many of the cheese teams running around. But more than just that, it also just breaks so many teams down that lack Tangela now that Cofa is on the decline.

A- --> A
No longer is Audino just a stall mon. Slowly but surely Audino has been finding itself as a core staple on a lot of semi stall/fat teams for its ability to scout and pair with Cuno to back it up with heal bell to create an unmatched grind game without needing to commit to a full stall game plan.

A- --> A
I was really torn on this one but the impact Articuno has on the tier has not been subtle. It alone has shifted the tier so much and I think its pretty clear this mons a top player in the metagame. There's also so much flex room with the mon between options like u-turn, heal bell, offensive, sub toxic, and no defog sets that you can really justify it on almost every team if you really wanted. There are some pretty huge downsides to consider when running it which I think should keep it out of A+ but when you properly support it this thing is a monster.

UR --> C+
Okay this ones kind of a silly looking one but I swear by this mon being good right now. It pairs near perfectly with Articuno to cover all the rockers/spikers it can't defog on like Rhydon, rock blast Garbodor, fast taunt Qwilfish, and Coalossal. It also hard walls Silvally-ground so you can just slow u-turn on it if it tries to set up into something faster that can deal with it like Basculin.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1329210986-65m9fpf5jgeg2k0mtlfzlq5dglrluiepw

EDIT:
I don't have replays of it in action but I do have some from other people. Ivysaur deserves a rank so nomming for B- to start with because suns pretty monstrous and its legitimately good on sun

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1331656162 (czim vs hoen)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1328574293 (gye vs yovan)

A+ --> A
With things like Garb, Qwil, Coal, and now Rapidash on the rise, the king of fat killer is starting to have a hard time doing that against a lot of fat teams. We're past the point where Altaria is the only Skorch resist people are running and its starting to get harder to justify it as a breaker when a lot of builds have naturally started adapting to it

 

[viet noa]

to A+

maybe it’s just my scrubby playstyle losing to any defensive core, but audino does a fantastic job at absorbing hits from the best of them. a lot of times, you have to rely on a combination of knock off/switcheroo, taunt, and strong attacks in order to finally wear down this pokémon’s bulk. obviously audino isn’t infallible, but defeating audino with good team support is far more difficult than “bring this counter to kill it with supereffective attack”. audino, as mentioned in the previous comment, is far from just a staple on stall teams. it can provide great amounts of healing for bulky offensive teams to thrive, and i’d imagine that premier offensive wallbreakers like the silvally forms love getting a wish granted to them. especially considering that silvally-ground already has the utility of absorbing volt switches. audino might be really passive, but the support it provides to many different teambuilds makes up for that.

to C+ or B-

i know a lot of people view cradily as a bit of a gimmick, and while there is some truth to that due to most hazard setters being better, i think cradily has a genuine niche that’s better than its current ranking implies. having a water immunity is a nice luxury with basculin and wishiwashi being present, and having an electric resistance is nothing to snooze at. due to its natural bulk, it can potentially spread status vs unsuspecting opponents, or annoy opponents with leech seed; this is all while still getting stealth rocks off. while choosing other stealth rock setters is generally a better choice, i feel like cradily holds its own.

to A-

i don’t feel like there’s much to explain, as ninetales is quickly gaining popularity as a great special wallbreaker. there’s been less and less competition for it, it has great coverage, and its speed tier is quite desirable.

 

[gglrg]

to B- / C+
Who?? This mon has been on the downfall since sneasels ban and rightly so. Offensive sets are pretty weak and don't really offer anything over other fightings like sawk and gurdurr and the popularity of the rising tangela and ever present walls like qwilfish and uxie and revengers like manectric and rotom don't help it's case either. Defensive sets are pretty bad and passive and rather uses other rest talk pokemon like throh and wishiwashi who pack pivoting and knock off respectively which gives them an advantage.

to A-
I think liepard should be on par with the other rain pokemon in ludicolo and kabutops. It packs a great ability in prankster and very good utility moves in , encore, knock off and u-turn to provide support for it's team and does it very well. Edit: Would like to add that pivot sets with knock + u-turn and nasty plot dark pulse copycat sets are also pretty decent but not as good as the weather setting support.

to A+
This is THE physical wall you should be using right now. It blankets a majority of physical attackers and big threats like kangaskhan silvally ground and sawk while packing a brilliant ability in regenerator gives it longevity so it can check everything in the long run and isn't worn down easily.

to B+ maybe A- (bit of a stretch)
Frostom I think is getting better now that electric competion and a soft check in magneton is gone. Boltbeam is some of the best coverage you can get abusing pokemon like articuno altaria and tangela getting a free set up with nasty plot especially if running substiute with a good speed tier tying rotom-fan and outspeed non-scarf sawk and max speed articuno and flapple. It's not short of options with volt switch pain split substitute and defog for hazard removal while also being able to run a scarf set that outspeeds the aforementioned sawk, but it's not as good.

to A
Shiftry is the best abuser on sun teams as it packs a deadly stab knock off, solar blade and potential coverage in heat wave to blow away shiinotic and tangela with a boosting move in growth makes it the best abuser on the sun teams. Off sun shiftry is also great with a very good swords dance set that dents major holes in the opposing team with stab knock off and a priority sucker punch which is very good on spikes teams as it puts more pokemon into it's range like silvally ground and cincinno. Leaf storm is a very powerful second stab that can dent tangela and blows away waters and grounds like runerigus who thinks it can take a knock off with colbur berry.

to C+/B-
Agreeing with hiss here and saying that cradily deserves a small bump. Kangaskhan checks are very nice ti have in this meta while packing storm drain to wall basculin and great utuiliy in recover and toxic with rock blast/giga drain and earth power as options for attacking and electric resitances can come in very handy vs manectric and rotom.

Other noms in previous posts I strongly agree with:
higher
to higher
higher
to A+
to S
to way lower
all higher
(ghost) lower

 

[JdRDMS]

Well activity has certainly surged recently after the near 72 hours of silence after the update. This was another big one, and with Magneton, Clawitzer, and Kingler being banned, we already have to start preparing for another one. Though I suppose that's part of what makes being in a lower tier like ZU so interesting. Anyway, here's my nom:

Boltund: C -> C-
I never really felt like this was that great, even when the v2 VR was first posted back in February. However, especially now, the meta has been really unkind to it. The rising presence of Unovan Stunfisk and Cradily has not been kind to it in the slightest. Both are not that great, but they have both gotten ranked, have seen a fair amount of discussion, and they completely wipe the floor with this ugly dog that is a disgrace to the cuteness of its prevolution.

VS Stunfisk-U and Cradily

252 Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Boltund Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Stunfisk: 161-190 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Stunfisk Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Boltund: 246-290 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Boltund Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 144-170 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Cradily Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Boltund: 102-121 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(Yes, of the four main moves Boltund runs, Psychic Fangs is the strongest)

Other things Boltund doesn't like

- Rhydon becoming better again.
- Tangela being so prevalent (Fire Fang can't 2HKO even if Tangela doesn't have an Eviolite)
- Fantom can tank a Thunder Fang, and (along with Regular Utility Rotom) can burn it with Will-O-Wisp, making it nearly useless for the rest of the match).
- Runerigus becoming more prominent (Crunch almost never 2HKOs, and Rune can OHKO it with Earthquake with no investment).
- Boltund also can't really afford to lose its Life Orb (without it, it usually fails to OHKO Shiftry with Fire Fang). Combined with its general frailty, switching in is virtually impossible, especially against Knock users, so you have to rely on sacking or pivoting to bring it in safely.

- However, with its Life Orb, Boltund will slowly be worn down even without taking hits. Combined with the fact that it usually isn't strong enough to OHKO the things it wants to, it can be surprisingly easy to revenge kill for a mon with 375 Speed, especially if your opponent has a Scarfer. Back to Shiftry again, after Boltund attacks just twice, Sucker Punch will usually OHKO. ​

However, I don't feel like Boltund is completely unusable, and it should definitely remain ranked. Especially as a late-game cleaner, Boltund can be really scary when its checks and counters have been weakened or eliminated. And without a Choice Item, Strong Jaw and Life Orb allow it to take a decent bite out of most offensive threats, especially with its very high natural speed. Even saying that though, something like Scarf Sawk is much more terrifying as a cleaner, with better speed, power, moves, and abilities, it doesn't require as much support, and is relatively safe to use to break something early on. On the other hand, I feel like Boltund requires too much support to be effective enough, and it just isn't as strong as it wants to be. Therefore, I think it should drop to C-.

 

[viet noa]

my opinion on some of the current noms so far:

down to A+ - Agree
i was hesitant at first, but after realizing that there’s more to life than voltturn offense, yeah, i agree that uxie isnt as good as it once was.

to A - Strongly Agree
as it turns out, my first impression of articuno was completely wrong. not only has articuno stood out as more than just a new toy, but this pokémon is absolutely fantastic. its defensive capabilities have defined the tier, and if you don’t have an articuno check or counter on your team, you’re getting walled eventually. honestly, i would raise articuno to A+, as it’s such a defining part of the meta right now even in spite of its flaws.

to S - Kinda Agree?
i do believe kangaskhan is a metagame-defining threat, but it does get walled by some notable defensive pokémon like tangela. still though, i understand the sentiment of putting it in s tier.

to C- - Disagree
i think that its speed tier and ability to clean up vs offensive teams is still too valuable to make it c-. i get that it’s mostly ass besides that, though.

nevertheless, i’m still salty that boltund isn’t the same dog breed as yamper. wtf game freak

another nomination of my own (yes i know i comment a lot already):

to B- or B

i get the fact that it essentially only sees usage as a stallbreaker, but i think with balance teams becoming a lot better (as kangaskhan continues to rise), the chip that it can get with super fang/brave bird + the utility of taunt/toxic/uturn/whatever makes it genuinely good as a support mon. not to mention, besides skuntank, there aren’t a ton of stallbreakers in the tier to begin with. its versatile movepool, alongside bulk that’s good enough to not even need eviolite, puts it into a category that’s more than just a niche. i think it’s good.

edit: golbat also has potential as a defog user, as it can switch into attacks like close combat without needing an eviolite.

 

[Apagogie]

Let's add my contributions

Eldegoss C+ -> B-/B

Eldegoss becomes a decent pokemon. In this metagame where hazard stack is so common and where we lack of hazard controlers, a little green blob which is consistently able to spin and to gain life at every switch finds naturally a decent place in common teams. This Pokemon is difficult to wear down without toxic and is able to offer a good support to teams without being too punished, especially with leech seed or a powder. Some stack hazards team enjoy its presence more than tangela and despite some trends playing in its defavor, it's pretty consistent at what it does to rise in the B ranks in my opinion.

Stunfisk-Galar B+ -> B-
The magneton ban affects a lot of its viability and allows people to discover new rockers and getting away with a galar-stunfisk which is considered as passive in the current metagame. Despite an uncommon decent match up against frosmoth and articuno, galar-stunfisk struggles to adapt to a metagame where spikes, weathers, fire types are on the rise. Its lack of recovery and access to toxic makes it easy to weaken and abusable for most of teams. It is still usable in some teams and in some stalls but I don't think it will recover a day its past glory.


Trevenant B -> B-/C+
I tested decently Trevenant lately and it's alright. B doesn't reflect its current viability that being said. The current popularity of Tangela, the number of fire, poison, flying and bug types which increase as a consequence make its grass stab pretty ineffective and abusable against most of teams. Poltergeist stays nice and all but I would really like to be locked on an other thing that's something which directely invites Kangaskhan or other pretty common mons such as Alola-Persian, Audino or Cincinno. Life Orb doesn't match well with Spikes & it really needs an offensive item to inflict damage. Outside of grassy terrain, taking the slot of the usual grass type makes the teambuilding more demanding with trevenant, especially to find ways to pressure Silvally-Ground. I think Trevenant can be solid with a good support but its consistency in the current metagame doesn't reflect its current rank and it's pretty challenging to play overall.

Spiritomb B -> C+
Spiritomb in B is a relic of the Sneasel metagame when it was a deadly wincondition in stall and a way to limit the number of times Drampa could click hyper voice in a game. Spiritomb is still somewhat threating in the right conditions but it's less and less seen in stall where it covers finally a number really limited of threats and where it doesn't improve a lot of its match up. Spiritomb doesn't like either the offensive playstyles which are on the rise, it despises hazards and boots make its recovery far more questionable, its weather match up is also pretty weak and invites breakers more than it would like. Like Trevenant, B looks a bit out of place and we have more interesting mons to explore at the moment.

Whiscash C -> Unranked
I don't think it should have been ranked last update. That being said, Magneton has been banned since the last time and it was the main reason to rank it in the first place. This pokemon simply is too average compared to our other friends in our tier and lacks of a clear niche to stay currently ranked in the viability rankings.

I also find Skuntank a bit too high in the viability rankings but I cannot find appealing arguments about it.

 

[viet noa]

I also find Skuntank a bit too high in the viability rankings but I cannot find appealing arguments about it.

i hate to do a one-liner, but stuntank could potentially fall to A-. it’s very very good, but just not amazing. it may be one of the few inherent stallbreakers in the tier, but it’s not as easily splashable as other pokémon in the tier.

 

[gye5]

I wanna make two noms
to C+ I dont know why this was unranked, (maybe beacuse of the magnet meta) this physical that check the best two mons in the tier kanga and ground vally. it has competition from tangela at this role because of its typing and movepool, but lugg has some benefits like spin, body press to beat stuff like audino and other fight weak mons and even stone edge if u want that hit on skorch.

to B- After fighting Beksel, (who didnt win because of those misses unfort) I came to the conclusion that golbat is a defogger with some unique traits like being very bulky with evio, a toxic inmunity and even inflitrator for sub mons. this mon check stuff like the fighting, skorch and grasses. And o yeah that toxic can hit mons behind a sub.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1330379191

 

[Toto]

Thwackey B+> A.
Choice band Thwackey is amazing right now, it just does it all. Need a rain check? Revenge killer? Wallbreaker? Late game sweeper? Pivot? Knock off? This monke has got you covered! The meta is very favourable for Thwackey currently as it checks both Silvally-Ground and rain (which should both be banned btw) whilst also fitting in nicely on the popular VoltTurn bulky offence playstyle. Grassy terrain is also a nice bonus for your teammates and can be paired well with mons such as Qwilfish, Garbodor and Coalossal to reduce their weakness to Earthquake whilst also providing passive recovery.

 

[DC]

Some rises for the C-rank peeps:
(Poison) C- to C/C+
I've been testing and playing some games with many of the Poison-types in the tier and found this one to be a surprisingly decent option. Being immune to Toxic in a meta where everything carries Toxic is really good + you get a soft check to Fighters and a Knock Off absorber. There was a brief discussion in ZU disc about sets, and I definitely agreed that mixed with work up / multi / flamethrower / grass pledge or surf is the best to pressure defensive cores like Tang + Rhydon.

C+ to B-
Another good Poison-type and one of the best stallbreakers we have rn next to NP Skuntank. Its a Defogger that is immune to Toxic. 4x resistant to Fight, and has access to Taunt and reliable recovery. Super Fang + Taunt is a godsend to neuter these bulky builds that are gaining traction plus Infiltrator to counter Sub users. Golbat does have 4 mss, where you want to fit a lot of good options like Super Fang, Brave Bird, Roost, Defog, Toxic, Taunt, and even niche options like U-turn and Poison Fang, but this speaks more to its versatility than serving as a hindrance.

C- to C+
I got rekt by this thing in room tours, so I decided to try it out. Hat is really good at countering the top spikers like Ferroseed and Qwilfish and shutting down these Spikes-stacking teams, which helps to lower the effectiveness of wallbreakers like Kang and Sawk. Being weak to Knock Off sucks, but you get the benefit of being immune to Toxic and Taunt while also being able to support the team with options like Nuzzle and Healing Wish.

C to C+
Not much to say but this thing should rise with sun viability also rising. It kinda handles a lot of the stuff that special sun attackers struggles with by virtues of having a really strong Knock Off and Double-Edge.

Noms I agree with:
Fire-types from B+ to A-
Definitely agree. NP Ninetales hits the right Speed tiers and has really great coverage to cover all its checks. Rapidash is in a similar boat. I think the SD set is moderately good, since nothing really switches into Fire / Ground / Electric coverage, outside of Altaria and Appletun???. The utility is really good rn, cuz all of the notable wallbreakers like Thwackey, Frosmoth, and other Fire-types cannot really break it and fall to Fire / Ground coverage.

to Higher
Not sure if it is A material, but it is for sure A- rn. KnockTurn + strong priority is difficult to manage, especially with Spikes support, as all of its checks are reliant on items to consistently check it.

, , and to Higher
I group all these Pokemon together, as they basically define a certain aspect of the tier. Tangela is pretty much everyone's go-to physical wall, since it has everything you ever want: Knock Off, reliable recovery, and status. Articuno is super versatile and annoying to face (SubToxic players ) and you can really tailor it to fit a plethora of different uses. Kangaskhan is the defining wallbreaker of the tier and is difficult to contain without something that can consistently switch into it like Tangela or Cofagrigus; it also basically neutralizes all the cheese builds in ZU (which is honestly not a bad thing).

 

[Beksel]

Golbat C+ to B
This pokémon is just amazing for stallbreak ! Super Fang/Toxic + Taunt destroy some balanced/stall.
Double resist Fight is so amazing versus Gurdur/Cofagrigus/Sawk (Lack Stone Edge).
The bulk of eviolite make he can come on Centiskorch and pressure this with Brave Bird.
Also he was unnafected by Toxic so he was very hard to break for commun fat mon like Ferroseed/Audino/Tangela/Garbodor/Altaria/Pyukumuku/Clefairy.

Unfortunately Knok Off is everywhere in ZU and Golbat is weak SR, this 2 fact make he was less effective for check some threat that he should...

 

[gye5]

I want to make a nom. to C this ise type has proven that it has potencial to be a threat, without vanilluxe (with snow warning) as a competitor
it can show what ice stab can do, unlike stuff like glaceon, it has a great offensive movepool with boltbeam+focus blast to hit everything hard and even ancient power for skorch and making sure that cuno cant take easily its attack unlike t bolt (u can get a boost), couple with a massive special bulk, compesate its lack of power compare to glaceon (dont get me wrong it hits hard), it can provide a lot of both offensive and defensive utilitu, checking things like rotom, altaria, special basculind, tang and more. Although, its ice typing leave it vulnerable to a lot of types, slow asf and despite being a dangerous wallbreaker, teams packing audino can toxic it out, and stalling it out. In conclucion, it deserve to get explore more
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1332487233

 

[5Dots]

UR -> C-/C
While Swoobat is considered to be a premier Grassy Terrain sweeper, Thwackey and Tangela’s rises means that other Pokemon like Drifblim get a chance to rise as well. Strength sap is really annoying for other physical teams to deal with, and can serve as a serviceable knock off sponge once it enters the terrain.
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1331876912-ly7tqvwg2915ioeidiw321o5w30poe8pw
Drifblim was able to use its window of opportunity to become a devastating sweeper, as unlike Swoobat, it can outspeed Alola-Persian/non-scarf Cinccino, Ivysaur under sun, and Ludicolo under rain. The replay has it KO 3 pokemon and open up the opportunity for its teammates like thwackey to finish the job.
-> UR -> C+
Ivysaur has really proven itself to be a dangerous sweeper, as +2 weather ball has the chance to even OHKO Articuno. Its role in sun teams fits really nicely, as its toxic immunity, being the more bulky grass type all-around and access to poison stab is important given how Tangela is extremely popular.
Replays: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1331997551-erqzkrj7gduf3dos34agkdgwi3cujjipw
Ivysaur was able to use its good bulk and get 4 hefty KOes, which when combined with some opportunities against more defensive/balanced teams, enabled it to pull off a nice sweep, and it was able to use its typing to thwart Alola-Dugtrio’s potency.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1332539783-u8pli0y4lnufmu5ryz3y33v4axuyz97pw
While Ivysaur was unable to reach the same success as the previous replay, even premier wall Articuno is by no means a way to stop the sun team, and it got OHKOed for it.

C to C+
Not much to say but this thing should rise with sun viability also rising. It kinda handles a lot of the stuff that special sun attackers struggles with by virtues of having a really strong Knock Off and Double-Edge.

Already thought Leafeon was an underrated threat, and I’m glad to see its been given more attention. Agree with nom.

to C+ I dont know why this was unranked, (maybe beacuse of the magnet meta) this physical that check the best two mons in the tier kanga and ground vally. it has competition from tangela at this role because of its typing and movepool, but lugg has some benefits like spin, body press to beat stuff like audino and other fight weak mons and even stone edge if u want that hit on skorch.

to B- After fighting Beksel, (who didnt win because of those misses unfort) I came to the conclusion that golbat is a defogger with some unique traits like being very bulky with evio, a toxic inmunity and even inflitrator for sub mons. this mon check stuff like the fighting, skorch and grasses. And o yeah that toxic can hit mons behind a sub.

Avalugg could be decent if Leaf Storm Tangela, weather, or Frosmoth didn’t exist. I think it’s okay in some stall builds and stopping Kanga and Silvally Ground is nice but Tangela is a far more consistent physical wall with regen. Rapid spin is nice but it faces competition with Cryogonal and Coal for the job.
I think it’s fine in UR though I can see it getting a C- if it gets more physical threats to deal with.

Stunfisk-Galar B+ -> B-
The magneton ban affects a lot of its viability and allows people to discover new rockers and getting away with a galar-stunfisk which is considered as passive in the current metagame. Despite an uncommon decent match up against frosmoth and articuno, galar-stunfisk struggles to adapt to a metagame where spikes, weathers, fire types are on the rise. Its lack of recovery and access to toxic makes it easy to weaken and abusable for most of teams. It is still usable in some teams and in some stalls but I don't think it will recover a day its past glory.

Even prior to Magneton’s ban, Mag was often present in terrain teams, which could result in Thwackey switching in and greatly hindering its potency as a check. Now that the magnet’s away, Stunfisk is a SR setter that finds it more difficult to keep up in the weather wars, as it might find itself to be setup fodder against threats like sun or rain teams. Liepard could encore it as soon as it sets rocks, then use the time to set up weather and gain momentum. G-Stunfisk I feel should drop.

B- --> C
We lack any good set up sweepers you'd need something like Ditto for. Its not good for the Silvally, Frosmoth, and Cofa which is a huge issue for justifying it on a team. Its just not relevant anymore

Disagree, the rise in sun means that Ditto has a new weapon to make opponents think twice before using growth/swords dance. Ditto is still an excellent way to prevent things from going out of hand, especially against foes like Rain Qwilfish, Sun Shiftry, and SD/FC Silvallies.

C- -> C
Don’t get me wrong, Carracosta has struggled ever since it dropped into ZU. I’ve tried using Solid Rock mixed shell smash sets (Ice beam + Stone Edge + liquidation/aqua jet) and they’ve actually worked fairly decently as a tang lure. having sturdy also makes it a decent suicide lead; in fact its really similar with crustle and has jet to differentiate itself. In a 1v1 scenario, positive matchups against Silvally-Ground, Altaria, Articuno, Rapidash, and the aforementioned tangela makes it a perfectly fine sweeper as well. I think it deserves a chance for a slight rise for its capabilities to run several sets. With rain out of the picture, it has less to worry about getting swept and could focus more on the rise of tangela.

 

[viet noa]

to C or C+

bulky swords dance + sub is able to completely wall tangela, as well as getting the potential to wreak havoc against opponents after a swords dance boost. it’s a great special tank, and can potentially get a sub/sd up if it switches into an attacker that can’t answer it (which includes a lot of opponents)

 

[5gen]

Gourgeist-Small B to B+ or A-

Gourgeist-Small excels in the current metagame as a breaker with Choice Band or Life Orb because Gourgeist-Small's Speed lets it threaten top mons like Silvally-Ground, CB Sawk, non-Choice Scarf Rotom, Uxie, and so on. Ghost / Grass is a pain to switch into defensively for teams and while Tangela comfortably switches into Gourgeist-Small's STABs, LO Fire Blast can 2HKO and CB/Scarf can just cripple it with Trick. Gourgeist-S can also provide solid defensive utility for offense and bulky offense alike with Heavy Duty Boots and Synthesis, which is pretty useful for teams that need a soft check to Pokeon like Silvally-Ground, Sawk, CB Thwackey, etc.

Jellicent B- to B

Jellicent should rise because of trends such as rain/offensive Water-types, Rhydon, and Fire-types like Nintales and Rapidash. Moreover, the ability to pivot into Sawk and Gurdurr and shut down walls such as Ferroseed, Audino, Clefairy, and Wishiwashi thanks to Taunt makes Jellicent flexible as a wall in practice. As in, it can wear down teams, help prevent entry hazards from going up, limit clerics, and force progress all while being a solid check to Water-, Fighting-, and Fire-types and a good soft check to offensive Ground-types. However, Jellicent does struggle with Pokemon like Rotom, Manectric, Tangela, Articuno, etc that see strong usage right now which is why I'm not nominating it higher.

Jynx C to C+

Jynx has seen some more usage/experimentation lately because of its ability to threaten Tangela builds and limit offensive Water-types like Basculin and Ludicolo due to Dry Skin. While Jynx does not have many setup opportunities, it capitalizes on trends like Tangela, Qwilfish, Garbador, and Altaria and also has a good Speed tier+Lovely Kiss. Hence, Jynx is enough of a threat to warrant a slight rise.

 

[gye5]

I wanna make a nom to C-, I still think it has potencial, great defensive utility and some versatility like using sub toxic to mess up with rockers, deffogers that usually beat it and scout for basculin and manetric.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1337902538
ignore the fact I miss clicked with cradily.

 

[viet noa]

to B+
jellicent is a really annoying wall that is able to check premier physical wallbreakers in the tier. almost all of these physical breakers hate getting burned, and also hate getting their stats lowered by strength sap. almost all physical wallbreakers in zu cannot OHKO this pokémon, as it can survive things like power whip from centiskorch and a +2 multi-attack from silvally-ground. additionally, with its solid defensive typing, it should realistically rise alongside the rise of rain abusers like qwilfish and fire types like rapidash.

i also agree with rising palpiGOAT to at least C-, as it has its niche in checking manectric & basculin while also having utility in toxic & stealth rock.

 

[gye5]

I wanna make another nom, to B+. This isnst seen as much as it should be, even outside of trick room this a menace, despite been slow and its low spe def, its typing is great defensebly and great offensive movepool. AV and banded sets are fine, I think band is superior right now, with stall rising this can 2ko every single mon in those or come close to it. Is fast enough to outspeed those teams and hard to ko back for that style. Against offense u wanna get this and get a KO or provide support with u turn so this mon will be useful in most cases.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1338686590-br9r15o6jh64yhbfr1sv4owbpjdhxjjpw

 

[Gangsta Spongebob]

to A+/S-

Tangela is simply amazing. Nothing can stand up to the plethora of physical attackers in the tier like it can, with it notably being the best solution to the Silvally-Ground, with even a +2 U-Turn not 2HKOing. And with it's fantastic bulk, reliable recovery AND Regenerator, it extremely hard to wear down.

The best part of all of this is that Tangela isn't some momentum sink like other Silvally-G answers. 100 Special Attack is quite good, and combined with Leaf Storm/Giga Drain, it is not only able to stop the oppodent's momentum dead in its tracks, but wrestle it back in your favor. And this isn't even discounting the amazing utility it offers. Knock-Off is just amazing utility that makes a true Tang switch-in almost nonexistant. Toxic and Sleep Powder furthur make Tangela hard to come into, as do you want your wall to risk coming into a Toxic, or something like Centi being completely sidelined by Sleep Powder or Knock?

Tangela does have flaws, but while important they're not at all dealbreakers. Its biggest flaw is a genuinly awful Special Defense. However, it doesn't even take Special Moves that terribly, as it often isn't OHKOed by powerful Special STABs such as Specs Rotom's Shadow Ball, and thanks to Regenerator even on the skin of it's teeth Tangela can remain in the game. It's reliance on Eviolite in such a Knock-heavy Meta is another real problem, but it still has great physical bulk and longevity even without its Item. Finally Sleep Powder Tangela often struggles to fight off Grass Types, but since they fear Toxic and Sludge Bomb players must be weary of Tangela before that last move is revealed.

And finding support for Tangela isn't at all hard. This UMPL a strong duo of Tangela + Rapidash has seen effective use as a terrific Core that takes advantage of these 2 Pokemon's differing strengths. Coalossal also works great, resisting all of Tangela's weaknesses, letting Tangela's Knock Off removse the target's HDB for its Hazards.

In short, Tangela is amazing for just how effective it is on almost every team. It is the go-to physical wall of the tier, but is even more than all that. It has shown consistently great usage in UMPL, from 5th place in usage, to 4th, to 1st. We live in Tangela's ZU now, and A+ or S- is where it should be on this VR.

 

[kay]

Raises:

A --> S
This mon is literally the face of ZU right now. It does exactly two thing in the meta right now: Wall everything physical and cripple things with sleep and knock off. Despite only doing two things, its completely warped building and has given rise to entire cores being viable just off its back, and mons are coming up and down in the meta in relation to it like how trapping with things like Kanga or lures specifically to nail this are coming out. We all know what this does and I think its fair to say its clearly earning its spot in S right now.

B- --> A-/A
An insane jump for a criminally under rated bird. Cramorant has been everywhere recently and probably one of the safest noms on here. This things jumped right into the meta and found a very nice home as a pain to deal with mon that offers a way out against some of the scariest mons in the tier ranging from Skorch, Frosmoth, scouted Sawks, and even NP Skuntank while also covering your defog slot. It really just offers too much that teams are looking for in one slot, and while it wont answer these forever it'll at least gives you something to play for in almost every match up to keep you from losing which often times can just be enough.

A --> A+
I find myself using Sawk more and more these days and with Damp Rock banned its one down side as a scarfer of being slower than rain is no longer an issue. CB is still able to totally annihilate Tangela cores and Scarf is an insane cleaner that's still going to offer utility with Knock Off to help cripple its own switch ins. No matter if they have an answer to Sawk or not, you're always getting value out of it and with Rotom going more and more to non choice scarf sets, Sawk finds itself as the premier Scarfer in the tier with its other options still finding insanely successful viability.

A --> A+
This one might be a little controversial, but Skuntank feels so good right now. Taunt NP is such a good win condition and with Stunfisk-g taking a nosedive in viability you're not punished anymore for not having Fire Blast. It also just is a generic Cremie answer which is insanely valuable right now. It kind of struggles with Cram being popular but I feel comfortable supporting a rise anyways

B+ --> A-
This to me is just the new age Basculin. You trade the speed tier for even more insane breaking power to the point where only dedicated answers like Clefairy and Sp.D alcremie are the only answers to it. Its really only going to be doing well vs fat teams as it lacks the speed tier to really go off vs anything faster, its still in my mind one of the best breakers the tier has to offer right now given the right high momentum support to constantly get this in and going off.

(super)
UR --> B+
I'm baffled this isn't ranked because its ridiculously good right now. On paper it looks like it competes with Tangela but its got some really relevant compression of offering a lot of way Tangela does, but also being a top tier fighting resist, plus its not weak to Poison so you're actually more prepped for the Tangela match up compared to Tangela as you can hard switch this into other Tangela and threaten it out with status which is something Tangela can't afford to do thanks to fearing both Knock and Sludge Bomb. It finds its way on to so many of my teams which is why I just assumed it was right in B+ this entire time so I didn't even bother to save replays on it. (sorry not sorry on the no replays)

A- --> A
This this is hell to deal with and in pure frustration I'm nomming it up because it feels like Skuntank and SD Perrserker are really the only consistent answer to it. You can trick it a scarf but your opponent really needs to play into that for it to work and if they don't let themselves get tricked and you use butn your trick on something else you kinda lose. I don't really have a lot to say about it other then its way too flexible and even if you're only accounting for the Stored Power sets, its still hell.

Drops:

A+ --> A
This one might also be a little controversial, but cores have really been shifting away from Persian thanks to Tangela taking over the meta and really taking its job. It'll always have a foot in the meta thanks to its ability to catch all answers all the Silvally and as a pivot, but right now with Vally opting for u-turn its going to end up getting chipped out all game. Its just hard to justify it when almost every balance team starts with Tangela and it can't switch into Kangaskan which is the premier breaker right now so you're going to have to pair this with a dedicated Kanga switch in which is generally Tangela anyways and then you ask yourself why you're still using this.

A- --> B-
With damp rock now banned it now only has its offensive pivot hazard removal set to play off of which while okay aren't really the greatest. Definitely deserves the drop.

A- --> C+
While it does have some sets outside of rain (LO 4 attacks, specs, and even offensive sub seed) its really going to take time to see if this ends up as just a niche pick like it looks on paper or if it'll find some footing. I think C+ is a pretty fair place for it given its untested merit in the meta in this new landscape for it.

B+ --> B-
Now with Damp Rock banned it lost its main niche as a rain setter. It pretty much only has sun and its offensive sets to rely on now and those aren't anywhere near B+ right now