Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread

TailGlowVM

Now 100% more demonic
wait one more question, if they are treated as separate mons why is the OU level ban of Power Construct and not the individual Zygardes that have the ability?
I assume it is because the dex on Smogon and PS does unfortunately have to display them as one, so it would be misleading to say that one Zygarde is banned and the other is not when you look through the OU list and see one Zygarde with both abilities?
 
wait one more question, if they are treated as separate mons why is the OU level ban of Power Construct and not the individual Zygardes that have the ability?
Because it's inconsistent. On the smogdex it says Power Construct is banned rather than Zygarde + Power Construct being banned because it would seem like a complex ban. Same thing on Pokemon Showdown, the way it appears in teambuilder does not accurately represent how it is actually tiered. Regardless of if you agree with them being tiered separately or not the whole thing is one inconsistent exception.
I assume it is because the dex on Smogon and PS does unfortunately have to display them as one, so it would be misleading to say that one Zygarde is banned and the other is not when you look through the OU list and see one Zygarde with both abilities?
The dex doesn't have to display them as one if it doesn't want to but it does because you know that's what makes logical sense. It would make sense to tier them as one as well, but Smogon does not for some reason.

Honestly the way Smogon handles tiering of alternate forms is really messy and full of exceptions when it really should not be, but I'll digress as that's not really a discussion for here.
 
What is the differentiating principle? That Darm-G's non form changing ability is the broken one, but Zygarde's isn’t
Basically. It's a similar situation to megas in gens 6 and 7. Mega Mawile and Mega Lopunny were OU while Mawile and Lopunny were in PU, but Mega Garchomp was OU despite not having enough usage because it's tethered to Garchomp, who was decidedly OU.

It's impossible for UU to allow only Mega Garchomp or for OU to allow only Zen Garmanitan because these Pokemon necessarily begin the match in their base forms. This is in contrast to Silvally and Zamazenta, whose alternate forms are active from the start of the match and cannot revert, and are thus technically able to be used on a lower tier than their base form.
 
Can someone lay this out for me because it has always bothered me.

OU has banned Power Construct because it gives access to Complete Form. Sure, this works because there is an alternative ability available for Zygarde 10 to use - aura break. From Bulbapedia -
  • Zygarde is the only Pokémon to have two standard Abilities
  • Despite having two standard abilities, it is also the only one with this trait that cannot change its ability with the Ability Capsule, instead requiring the Zygarde Cube to do so.

Where I am going with this is that an ability has been banned that is present only on a single line of Pokémon. Rather than banning Pokémon #718 entirely to prevent access to the broken ability, just the broken ability has been banned. Is there a strong difference than this and banning something like Gorilla Tactics? Before you jump to say that Power Construct is more a Pokémon than an ability, how is that demonstrably different than Zen Mode Darmanitan? In Zygarde’s case, the form 50% health change ability is broken but the non-changing ability is not. Form change ability banned. In Darm Galar’s case, the form change 50% health ability is not broken, but the non-form changing ability (gorilla tactics) is banned. Entire mon banned.

What is the differentiating principle? That Darm-G's non form changing ability is the broken one, but Zygarde's isn’t?
The difference between Zen Mode and Power Construct is that Power Construct is a permanent in-battle transformation similar to megas, primals, Battle Bond and Ultra Necrozma. All these forms are tiered separately from their base.

Darmanitan can switch back and forth in battle, so it is more similar to Castform or Aegislash where they are tiered together. I think aside from Darmanitan, all Pokémon that can switch back and forth between forms in battle have one ability (Castform, Aegislash, Cherrim, Eiscue, Morpeko, Minior, Wishiwashi, Meloetta).
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
I'm interested in building with Indeedee because of the expanding force damage output + ghost immunity. Is specs the most viable set?
It can work. Also Terrain Extender might be a thought to think about. But Choice Specs is probably its best set:
Indeedee (M) @ Choice Specs / @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
- Mystical Fire / Dazzling Gleam
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock / Trick (when its Choice Specs set)

Expanding Force alongside Hyper Voice is a great dual STAB option, alongside Mystical Fire for Steel-types such as Magnezone, Aegislash, Ferrothorn, and Corviknight and Skarmory. Dazzling Gleam can also be an alternative for Pokemon like Hydreigon, Weavile, and other Dark-types such as Mandibuzz. This probably might be its best set. You can try and make it work alongside Pokemon such as Hawlucha with Psychic Seeds as its item, Garchomp is also an option, as it is protected from Ice Shard coming from Weavile and the less common Mamoswine due to Indeedees Terrain, so it gets tougher to revengekill. Other partners could be Zeraora, Volcarona, and Dragapult.

However, Indeedee is a Pokemon which has to be played with carefully and its usually entirely outclassed by Tapu Lele, but for this purpose especially the set given / suggested above shoudl do the trick.

Hopefully that helped. :)
 
I've been deciding to meme with toxtricity a bit and I'm not exactly sure what to run. The two sets I've been thinking of right now are the specs set and then the shift gear set with drain punch to screw with blissey. Going to be running it with sp def corv to deal with lele and ground types, but I don't know what other fat defensive mons to pair it with.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
I've been deciding to meme with toxtricity a bit and I'm not exactly sure what to run. The two sets I've been thinking of right now are the specs set and then the shift gear set with drain punch to screw with blissey. Going to be running it with sp def corv to deal with lele and ground types, but I don't know what other fat defensive mons to pair it with.
Try pairing it with a Stealth Rock setter and Electric immunity like Landorus-T or Garchomp, which also helps with Heatran. This supports Toxtricity nicely and provides a great balanced piece to the team, too.
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
ohaiyo fam,

returning player who left before the dlc was dropped. can someone bring me up to speed with regards to ou? I see that there are a lot of new toys to play with and since ace and mag are banned, i assume it's prolly going to be a lot more fun to play.
Hello,

since I covered everything in this post right here I think that will help out as well. An amazing team with contributors currently work on the OU analysis and we already have a lot of OU analysis out there, which can also explain a lot more in-depth: https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/formats/ou/ some of the analysis are finished already. Be sure to check that out. Furthermore the OU Metagame Discussion Thread is a very helpful source, as we always discusss current happenings within the tiers metagame.

Hopefully that helped! :)
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
ohaiyo fam,

returning player who left before the dlc was dropped. can someone bring me up to speed with regards to ou? I see that there are a lot of new toys to play with and since ace and mag are banned, i assume it's prolly going to be a lot more fun to play.
Well, the number one threat right now and the one that many are discussing that deserves a suspect test is Dragapult. Is a straight forward mon. Almost like a built in choice scarf, no pursuit, spammable stab, all that stuff. I guess specs is the most common set right now but you could still run into some random boots, status hex, choice band and sometimes dragon dance

Garchomp is right behind Dragapult as an offensive threat. Scale shot turns it into a terrifying sweeper after a swords dance and it still doesn't easily go down even at -1 defense. Other than that, Garchomp is still doing Garchomp stuff

Tapu Lele and Kyurem are now among the tier's best choiced wall breakers. Lele's stabs are very difficult to handle unless accounted for and Kyurem's is on a whole new level. Even resists cannot hope to withstand them without a reliable recovery over the course of a game unless it's 4x resist

Weavile and Bisharp are now also among the best breakers but not necessarily choiced. Stab knock off and powerful priority makes them incredibly dificult to face

Corviknight, Heatran, Toxapex and Ferrothorn are still obnoxious as ever. Iron defense body press metal birds are somewhat common rn because they can deal with the two mentioned dark types while Heatran is still such a pain in the ass to switch into. If Heatran is annoying then Pex and Ferro are a lot worse

While Tornadus Therian was hyped up because of nasty plot, it's actually fallen quite a bit of and I would guess that's because of hurricane's accuracy. Remember, if it's not 100% accurate, it is 50% accurate

Zeraora and Tapu Koko are still on top of their game providing speed control and a way to annoy the ground types that would check them

Finally, Landorus Therian is still as popular as ever

Basically, whatever you do, make sure you have a plan for Dragapult because ghost is an incredibly spammable type and even specially defensive stuff like Pex can be ruined by some rng nonsense with spd drops
 
Try pairing it with a Stealth Rock setter and Electric immunity like Landorus-T or Garchomp, which also helps with Heatran. This supports Toxtricity nicely and provides a great balanced piece to the team, too.
Ok thank you. Toxtricity gang appreciates your contributions. Just one quick question which would you prefer offensive or defensive chomp for a rock setter role?
 
What’s the general consensus on Heatran? It seems that a fair portion of the player base wants it tested after Pult is dealt with.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
What’s the general consensus on Heatran? It seems that a fair portion of the player base wants it tested after Pult is dealt with.
A vast majority of the playerbase did not want anything suspected as of a month ago and even now it is only a sample size of a dozen or so posters in the metagame discussion who want Dragapult dealt with. Before we take an even larger leap to tackle something many people just regard as very good, not broken, like Heatran, let's see if Dragapult even needs to be handled to begin with. One step at a time and those steps have to be calculated.
 
I've been finding Landorus-T pretty hard to use since it doesn't have a great Speed-tier or reliable recovery. How is Landorus suppose to be played? And what teams does it fit on better than Garchomp?
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
I've been finding Landorus-T pretty hard to use since it doesn't have a great Speed-tier or reliable recovery. How is Landorus suppose to be played? And what teams does it fit on better than Garchomp?
Electric immunity, Ground immunity, defensive pivot vs Garchomp, Excadrill, Zeraora, Tyranitar, etc., potential physical breaker, potential physical sweeper, revenge killer if choice scarf, Stealth Rock setter or Defogger if utility, etc. -- Landorus-T is splashable due to how many practical roles it can fulfill.

Garchomp has a distinct niche due to greater speed tier and being able to handle Heatran well, but this alone only is needed on so many teams. Both have pros and cons, but ultimately you see a bit more Landorus-T at the moment.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
I've been finding Landorus-T pretty hard to use since it doesn't have a great Speed-tier or reliable recovery. How is Landorus suppose to be played? And what teams does it fit on better than Garchomp?
To add on to what Finch said, Lando's biggest use is to be a buffer against physical attackers that aren't galarian Zapdos or Bisharp that provides a lot of utility with knock off, u turn, rocks, defog, toxic and whatever else Lando has in its belt. The keyword is buffer because over the course of a battle, Lando will eventually die to them. It's just supposed to buy you a couple turns so that its teammates can pick up the slack. There's also a suicide lead role for hyper offense since it has a strong boom

Garchomp on the other hand is used more as a wall breaker or sweeper, sometimes both due to how scale shot works
 
I've been finding Landorus-T pretty hard to use since it doesn't have a great Speed-tier or reliable recovery. How is Landorus suppose to be played? And what teams does it fit on better than Garchomp?
Lando is so annoying to play against but fun to use. Your right that it's speed and lack of reliable recovery are problems, but that is part of why it has consistently through the last several generations managed to be the most used mon and often S tier mon without ever being outright broken.


I have found success using either the suicide lead or Swords Dance Rock polish set on HO, since Lando hits so hard with +2 Eq or Stone edge coming off of base 145 attack. When not using that, I use its bulky defensive pivot set since it checks lots of mons in the tier long enough over the course of a match to allow your team to break through. And between Intimidate, Toxic, Stealth Rock, Knock off And Defog, it has plenty of utility.


Don't know how "viable" it is per say, but I have even found success using Smack Down on offensive sets with SD which allows me to betterdeal with the Metal birds ( allowing another sweeper weak to Skarm/Corv to break through the enemy team) and is a more accurate alternative to stone edge.


As the other two posters above pointed out, there are plenty of ways to play Lando due its strength and versatility.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
is swords dance crawdaunt good for rain team?
Rain is incredibly restrictive as it almost always gonna have a ground type, swift swimmer, hurricane user, Ferrothorn and Pelipper. You could slot it in in the final slot but that would miss out on another rain benefit which is perfect accuracy thunder, unless of course you chose Zapdos as the hurricane user. Those five slots are basically mandatory as if you're not gonna abuse the rain, why bother using it. More importantly, Crawdaunt would not help rain's matchup against the ultimate rain killer, Kyurem and the swift swimmer would already be the main offensive water. I guess Crawdaunt would be good as backup but I still think it's not worth it
 
Rain is incredibly restrictive as it almost always gonna have a ground type, swift swimmer, hurricane user, Ferrothorn and Pelipper. You could slot it in in the final slot but that would miss out on another rain benefit which is perfect accuracy thunder, unless of course you chose Zapdos as the hurricane user. Those five slots are basically mandatory as if you're not gonna abuse the rain, why bother using it. More importantly, Crawdaunt would not help rain's matchup against the ultimate rain killer, Kyurem and the swift swimmer would already be the main offensive water. I guess Crawdaunt would be good as backup but I still think it's not worth it
I wanna build HO rain consist of pelipper, ferro, barraskewda (swift swimmer), np spa tornadus (hurricane user), np thundurus (volt absorb + thunder) and the last would be sd crawdaunt. I don't wanna use urshifu because i dislike choice locked mon, only banded barraskewda. To deal with kyurem maybe close combat barraskewda & 2 focus blast torndurus can do it, I never good at playing other than setup spam HO.
 

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