Social LGBTQIA+

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
Sorry for not getting to this earlier, it was irresponsible of me.
the original callout post was worded needlessly harshly though.
It's quite alright. I've been told I can be intimidating to talk to because of my wording patterns, so I suppose Chloe didn't know what else to do. It's something I'm trying to work on.

It was short-sighted to open the floodgates for those kinds of memes; Cong tends to value more high-effort posting and Chloe was here for that, so the criticism is well-grounded. With that said, I've added a "No Meme" rule to the OP. If people want to continue with the memes, the Smogoff meme thread suffices. Pokepride also has a meme channel, for what it's worth.
 
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Exeggutor

twist
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
I was having a discussion about this with some online friends a few days back, thought it might be interesting to post it in here. My mates and I were talking about the word queer and my personal dislike for it, especially the way it's been watered down to mean just about anything by various different communities wanting a piece of activism. A few days later, in a conversation with my girlfriend, she referred to the general LGBT population as "the queers" and I just about felt my skin crawl.

I cannot stand that word whatsoever. The connotations it has are really terrible, and the sort of people I associate self-identification with queer as a label with are not the type I want to be around. It's a very personal decision that I'm aware of, but it's one of the more confusing pieces of "slur reclamation" that I've seen, if only because it's shifted to also include just about any form of nonconformity.

I wish it wasn't mainstreamed so much. It's a word that's still used in a harmful way to this day.

On a happier note, my nan and uncle have apparently dropped off a bunch of sequins and ornaments that we've had in the family for years at our house and said I could use them to "make an outfit for Pride." It's the first time they've gone ahead and acknowledged & supported me being different. I have barely any sewing experience, but those are getting used somehow.
 

brightobject

there like moonlight
is a Top Artistis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I was having a discussion about this with some online friends a few days back, thought it might be interesting to post it in here. My mates and I were talking about the word queer and my personal dislike for it, especially the way it's been watered down to mean just about anything by various different communities wanting a piece of activism. A few days later, in a conversation with my girlfriend, she referred to the general LGBT population as "the queers" and I just about felt my skin crawl.

I cannot stand that word whatsoever. The connotations it has are really terrible, and the sort of people I associate self-identification with queer as a label with are not the type I want to be around. It's a very personal decision that I'm aware of, but it's one of the more confusing pieces of "slur reclamation" that I've seen, if only because it's shifted to also include just about any form of nonconformity.

I wish it wasn't mainstreamed so much. It's a word that's still used in a harmful way to this day.
re: "identifying" as q: Thinking about it w relation to queer theorists, "queer" is something you act or feel and not necessarily something you can "be" (something conceived in opposition to identity politics from what i can tell). But it's also become political shorthand for a wide breadth of non-comforming behaviors / people. In that sense I don't think I'd ever call myself queer, but I feel comfortable thinking about lgbtq groups that are marginalized and targeted by social policies / violence as queer. I'd like to think that the latter is hopefully not an extension of said violence, and of course if someone didn't want to be referred to in that way it would just make sense to respect their wishes there.

For me, the use of queer pejoratively (and I guess...non pejoratively? now that its been 'reclaimed') seems similar to the use of gay--if anything I've seen many, many more people use gay pejoratively than queer(I recognize how anecdotal that is and I'm just including it to provide context for my own opinion on the matter). Queer started as describing "non-normalcy" generally (the example I hear thrown about is an old northern english saying 'theres nowt so queer as folk') and became more specifically about gnc / non heterosexual men and women in the late 19th / 20th century. The core connotation is demonizing deviancy or non-normalcy... The 'evil' of existing outside sex / gender norms is taken for granted and not really baked into the etymology itself. That feels like something appropriate to reclaim to me, since the norm is constructed, and existing outside the binaries set up for us by society is ultimately neutral.

Outside of personal usage / identifiers, there is definitely the risk of alienating and fragmenting community spaces (a relatively benign example would be a community event called BBQueer held by the local lgbtq org at my school was pretty contested), which generally feels like a net loss. There's a fundamental tension in the label of queer resisting definition (which I think a lot of people encourage for better or worse), and its supposed political / material value as some kind of descriptor-especially when so much queer theory has yet to trickle down into mainstream discourse or policy in any meaningful way. But ultimately that's something that we just have to be vigilant about in the ways it's being used (you mentioned 'wanting a piece of activism' which feels all too real), similar to other forms of pinkwashing and gay labels. The problem is absorption or being made 'trendy' in such a way that it allows people to ignore the liberation of marginalized lgbtq ppl, and I think there are ways to use queer that avoid those pitfalls.

If the question is why use queer when it runs the risk of alienating people and ultimately is used very similarly to gay / lgbtq / etc...part of the attraction of the term for me is its definitive non-normativity. That is to say, since it by definition implies nonconformity, it has a certain level of resistance to mainstreaming. That's definitely very idealistic since it has already been mainstreamed in many ways lol, but for me that gives it a level of political power that feels useful, even if it's fraught.

This is a tough topic and I'm glad you're opening the floor for it. I've seen the conflict hinted at in a variety of lgbtq places but never really explicitly addressed. Writing this very rambly post (that really doesn't come up w any answers) made me reexamine a lot about how/why I use the word in my day-to-day--I know you weren't exactly asking to have a drawn-out discussion about this but I think it's a good conversation to be having itt. The term being too amorphous / too trendy are definitely huge things to grapple w, and I'd love to hear more abt your / other ppls thoughts on the issue.
 
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Exeggutor

twist
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
re: "identifying" as q: Thinking about it w relation to queer theorists, "queer" is something you act or feel and not necessarily something you can "be" (something conceived in opposition to identity politics from what i can tell). But it's also become political shorthand for a wide breadth of non-comforming behaviors / people. In that sense I don't think I'd ever call myself queer, but I feel comfortable thinking about lgbtq groups that are marginalized and targeted by social policies / violence as queer. I'd like to think that the latter is hopefully not an extension of said violence, and of course if someone didn't want to be referred to in that way it would just make sense to respect their wishes there.

For me, the use of queer pejoratively (and I guess...non pejoratively? now that its been 'reclaimed') seems similar to the use of gay--if anything I've seen many, many more people use gay pejoratively than queer(I recognize how anecdotal that is and I'm just including it to provide context for my own opinion on the matter). Queer started as describing "non-normalcy" generally (the example I hear thrown about is an old northern english saying 'theres nowt so queer as folk') and became more specifically about gnc / non heterosexual men and women in the late 19th / 20th century. The core connotation is demonizing deviancy or non-normalcy... The 'evil' of existing outside sex / gender norms is taken for granted and not really baked into the etymology itself. That feels like something appropriate to reclaim to me, since the norm is constructed, and existing outside the binaries set up for us by society is ultimately neutral.

Outside of personal usage / identifiers, there is definitely the risk of alienating and fragmenting community spaces (a relatively benign example would be a community event called BBQueer held by the local lgbtq org at my school was pretty contested), which generally feels like a net loss. There's a fundamental tension in the label of queer resisting definition (which I think a lot of people encourage for better or worse), and its supposed political / material value as some kind of descriptor-especially when so much queer theory has yet to trickle down into mainstream discourse or policy in any meaningful way. But ultimately that's something that we just have to be vigilant about in the ways it's being used (you mentioned 'wanting a piece of activism' which feels all too real), similar to other forms of pinkwashing and gay labels. The problem is absorption or being made 'trendy' in such a way that it allows people to ignore the liberation of marginalized lgbtq ppl, and I think there are ways to use queer that avoid those pitfalls.

If the question is why use queer when it runs the risk of alienating people and ultimately is used very similarly to gay / lgbtq / etc...part of the attraction of the term for me is its definitive non-normativity. That is to say, since it by definition implies nonconformity, it has a certain level of resistance to mainstreaming. That's definitely very idealistic since it has already been mainstreamed in many ways lol, but for me that gives it a level of political power that feels useful, even if it's fraught.

This is a tough topic and I'm glad you're opening the floor for it. I've seen the conflict hinted at in a variety of lgbtq places but never really explicitly addressed. Writing this very rambly post (that really doesn't come up w any answers) made me reexamine a lot about how/why I use the word in my day-to-day--I know you weren't exactly asking to have a drawn-out discussion about this but I think it's a good conversation to be having itt. The term being too amorphous / too trendy are definitely huge things to grapple w, and I'd love to hear more abt your / other ppls thoughts on the issue.
Thanks for giving such a detailed response! I know we don't talk too often, but you're always really insightful.

I'm going to say from the getgo that I have little interest in engaging with queer theory now and probably never will. I don't come at these things with some sort of academic mindset, I'm stupid as fuck, all of these are just feelings.

That is to say, since it by definition implies nonconformity, it has a certain level of resistance to mainstreaming.
The lack of definition is something that really bothers me. I had a talk with a few older, millenial LGBT people that I speak with pretty regularly, and I was really baffled by the insistence of some of them that, for example, kink is inherently queer, by virtue of its deviation from the norms of sexuality. Existing as an implication of nonconformity means that queer is all-inclusive in the best and worst ways.

It's also a word I associate with obfuscated identities - I don't believe anyone should feel pressure to label themselves as they want, or to reject labels, but an umbrella term like queer also removes the nuance and difference between different LGBT people. It attempts to make a larger universal "queer" culture or experience that doesn't really exist. Generally, I've found myself unable to relate to the sort of person who self-describes as queer, because it speaks to an experience wrt their gender and/or sexuality that does not align with mine in the slightest.

It's also a term I associate with a particular type of LGBT person - young, liberal, American, very online. None of those are bad things, but it's also people from that crowd that tend to refuse to recognise or downplay people's objections to having it used as an umbrella term.

I'm really glad to have a discussion going to be honest! It's nice to hear your thoughts, it'll be nice to hear what other people think too if anyone shares.
 

brightobject

there like moonlight
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Thanks for giving such a detailed response! I know we don't talk too often, but you're always really insightful.
<3 likewise

And re:engaging w theory, thats fine. If the theory is going to be effective it should be applicable without having studied it for five billion years. I'm certainly not super familiar w a lot of queer theory myself by any means, but my general thoughts on it are if it has no use in helping real ppl parse and deal w their stuff its just academic circlejerking

The lack of definition is something that really bothers me. I had a talk with a few older, millenial LGBT people that I speak with pretty regularly, and I was really baffled by the insistence of some of them that, for example, kink is inherently queer, by virtue of its deviation from the norms of sexuality. Existing as an implication of nonconformity means that queer is all-inclusive in the best and worst ways.

It's also a word I associate with obfuscated identities - I don't believe anyone should feel pressure to label themselves as they want, or to reject labels, but an umbrella term like queer also removes the nuance and difference between different LGBT people. It attempts to make a larger universal "queer" culture or experience that doesn't really exist. Generally, I've found myself unable to relate to the sort of person who self-describes as queer, because it speaks to an experience wrt their gender and/or sexuality that does not align with mine in the slightest.
I think label-chasing is generally a huge problem but not something i rly attribute to the queer label. If anything it feels like it helps to have a larger umbrella to use while younger ppl are still experimenting and making mistakes...i feel like its a product of the social media era + the hypervisibility of lgbtq communities w how deeply their aesthetics have been co opted and overly classified. From what I have learned about the idea of queerness, it exists in opposition to binaries, including the queer / non-queer binary (i.e....you have to prove yourself or express yourself in a certain way to "claim" queerness). It feels more about recognizing the different and nuanced experiences of all people in the way we butt up against the norms that society (i guess focused around sexuality and gender expression, but since those things are so intertwined with like everything else...). Just like the label of LGBT (and frankly most labels), I feel like their primary use is practical / political in terms of creating some kind of space through which to advocate for one's humanity in the face of incredibly punitive cis/heteronormative laws (which exist everywhere lol). In the sense that all LGBT ppl (hopefully) want laws to be loosened in terms of their slavish obedience to those norms, i think there is a real solidarity there. Or we should aim for one at the very least.

It's also a term I associate with a particular type of LGBT person - young, liberal, American, very online. None of those are bad things, but it's also people from that crowd that tend to refuse to recognise or downplay people's objections to having it used as an umbrella term.
lol...well u read me dead on haha (except the liberal part ig). Is queer something thats not used as much in the uk / outside of the us?

I guess my general impression of the modern lgbt / whatever movement is that its incredibly fragmented and slowed down by lots of this kind of infighting over labels. I'm not sure where this should stop or start--language obviously has weight and power but ultimately we should still be focusing on material rather than superficial changes. There's probably some point where we can recognize that certain semantic threats are much more dire and significant than others and agree to disagree on the rest. I hope this doesn't come across as me being dismissive lol--i want to keep this conversation going but it's more of a desire to learn rather than trying to get an epic win for queerness. I think what we both want is communities where there is mutual recognition and respect for people's preferences in terms of language and labels...up to a point ofc
 
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TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
How hard is it to like...... just not go to the hot take presses without knowing the history of a thing. Queer, as an umbrella term, quite literally was the most common term for non cis non hetero people in the early 1900s. It was co-opted and used insultingly (much like it’s successor ‘gay’ was) but it’s origins were in self-identification and community.

If you want to talk about the shitty impulse of people to try and smuggle in shitty politics like “kink is queer” great have a blast but it’s not because they use a certain word it’s because they don’t know shit about what they’re talking about. It’s not queer for Janet Susans to find getting spanked by her husband arousing. Queerness is very specifically about non conformity relative to heterosexuality and cis normativity.

I mean I really do think there’s a rich bed of criticism to be levied towards the people who try to make every facet of their personality into a marginalized minority and the hyper shitty extensions that come from that kind of approach to politics, as well as how often they attempt to co-opt existing words to fit that world view. But you’re misdiagnosing that problem as having to do with the word they’re co-opting.
 

brightobject

there like moonlight
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Valk put it better than I could have about the "misdiagnosis" of queerness as the disease. To be honest though I'm uncertain what the solution to that problem of such co-opting is, especially when it's happening on such a large scale...bleh. Guess calling it out when it happens is the first and most important step.

Anyway, I took her criticism to heart and ended up doing some digging on the history / usage of queer to check my perception of the word (thanks libgen), figured some cliff notes on the topic* would be nice to share itt. Always cool to learn more abt this kind of history and the existence of these subcultures in the early 1900s* and beyond has been largely made invisible.

This all gets generally very tricky since the modern categorization of ppl into a heterosexual / homosexual binary, et al. (or even the modern conception of sexuality as a category) is a pretty recent invention, so the chronology and history become obtuse very quickly. Honestly, doing research into this made me aware of just how young a lot of these binaries are. The often blurry lines between endonym and exonym (labels created and used internally by a group, and labels used for a group by outsiders) don't help matters, either.

Anyway in the late 1800s/early 1900s, queer / fairy / f*g / etc were used relatively interchangeably by the larger public in referring to the 'gay community' (notable pejorative examples can be found in a lot of the material surrounding the trial of Oscar Wilde). Internally, however, each of these words also denoted specific social subcategories. 'Queer' specifically meant men who assumed the (accepted) sexual or cultural roles of women. Men who retained masculine behaviors were not considered "homosexual" if they pursued "queers" or "fairies" (is it just me or is this shit kind of ahead of its time). Sexuality was defined more by gender performance than it was physical sex until the mid-late 1930s / 40s / 50s. The separate decades having to do w the various neighborhood cultures (Euro-American, middle-class, African-American, etc) in NYC adopting the idea of compulsory heterosexuality at different moments in history.

By the 1910s and 1920s, queer's usage shifted as the sexual regime changed (though different people still used it differently). Queer men (whose classification had already started shifted to being based on homosexual preference versus gender presentation) largely considered themselves interested in "normal" men and rejected the effeminate presentation of the "fairy." (definitely feels regressive but perhaps thats just me). Ultimately though, the takeaway for me is how the word seemed more focused on practical concerns, creating more specific classifications to navigate social interactions effectively and subtly.

In the 30s and 40s, "queerness" became a rallying cry for a set of really vicious press campaigns against homosexuality, mostly revolving around the threat to children posed by "queer" people. During this transitory period (s) queerness often became a site of internal violence against "queer" people as the "gay" community sought to establish itself in some kind of normalized space. So the older models of 'queerness' more fundamentally intertwined with gender nonconformity basically got cannibalized as part of the cultural backlash to the blooming gay culture in urban sites during Prohibition - definitely where a lot of transphobia associated with the gay community today can be traced back to.

The difference between queer et al. and gay is actually the opposite of what it might be considered to be now: earlier terms denoted different types of homosexual men - effeminate (in the case of queer), conventionally masculine, etc. The "gay" label brought together, deemphasized their differences through the emphasis on the presumed similarity of character demonstrated through their choice of sexual partner. Sometime around this time is where the idea of "trade" men who willingly had sex with other men while maintaining otherwise conventional lifestyles became a marker of being "closeted" and not "truly gay."Actually wild (like the rest of this book-very excited to keep reading!).

...I couldn't find anything specifically about terminology used amongst lesbians at the time. I found a decent number of sources about the lesbian subcultures in NYC during the 20s and 30s, but nothing specifically outlining their parlance...please someone help me out here!


*Mostly jumping off of the introductory chapters of George Chauncey's Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World, 1890–1940. this post is so heavily indebted to the one book (and is very much an imperfect paraphrasing of its content), so if there's other conflicting info / divergent, obscure histories out there I really wanna see it.

To pull this back into the present though: Again, very cool to learn abt the history of the word in this period / just queer history in general. I'm definitely gonna read up some more on the pre- and post- war eras since it's obviously where a lot of our modern conceptions of gender and sexuality started to take concrete shape. There had always been a gap in my knowledge here before the 70s...so this is only the start! I still think my feelings on the word queer are very much positive. It's been used in a lot of different ways in the past century or so (contrary to my expectations it has very much been used by authorities and the mainstream media as a derogatory term to create real harm-I've mostly associated more pathologic terms with the former, perhaps naively) but the core idea of nonconformity feels like it has kept it coming back.

Re: kink...it feels very similar to the word queer in that it basically just describes something that is "off" (and seems to have originally been used as a noun for a 'sexual deviant' similarly to queer). So how is kink not inherently divergent from the idea of 'vanilla' heterosexuality? I feel like if the argument is a political one, it makes little sense to try to claim something like kink is 100% conforming...isn't the problem/ difference more along the lines of a lack of societal punishment / persecution (depending on one's interpretation of kink)? Or is kink another word that's been co-opted and totally washed out to include every kind of 'erotic' behavior? I admit I've not seen the word used too often so I'd love to see its meanings / differences in function crystallized.
 
This is the culmination of over 4 years of hard work and exploration of oneself, and I couldn't be happier.

When I was a little kid, I never really fit in with boys; instead, I went to play with the girls. I always tried to fit in with the girls instead, and for moments, I forgot all of the gendered norms, and I was able to be my true self. Ever since then, I have tried to do anything to go back to those days, but without me ever knowing. I've pretended to be a girl online, and I looked at other women and thought, "I wish I was that person." I acted much more feminine, adopted a higher pitch voice and tried to grow my hair out, all for a goal I didn't even know I was aiming for. The main thing that kept me down was the radical transphobia present in my surroundings, which had placed a deep inner transphobia in me. Whenever I had considered that option, I thought to myself, "No, I can't be trans, I don't want to be trans" and I let myself suffer for longer. I also have extreme anxiety which prevents me from speaking my real feelings and instead just using a coping mechanism like humor or even breaking down. Life was like a giant egg, where my feelings and thoughts were contained in that egg, bound outside of the rest of the world, and I didn't have the strength to hatch.

But, like all eggs, it finally cracked open.
 

Kate

Metamodernity
is a Tiering Contributoris a Past SCL Champion
RBTT Champion
I'm not sure where to begin this, but I'll try and make this coherent.

It's been a while since I've posted here. A year in fact, since I came out. With Covid hitting, It's hard to say whether a year has flown past or dragged on. Regardless, I don't think I'm quite the same person who first sat down to write a post that would still disguise some of my true feelings. I felt trapped, and not just by my gender identity but the results of bottling in emotions for years. I had to act a certain way, talk a certain way, because letting people see the inside of me was much scarier than hurting people. Even after I came out, I felt I was always going to be who I was before, no matter if I had changed or not. I would always be seen like that, and expected to act accordingly. So I kept doing terrible shit, even if I wanted to stop. It was an excuse for not wanting to be better as much as possible. It took a lot to want it, to want to be someone who people could respect and like. And I thought that would be it, once I found that motivation, but equal parts of me felt like a fraud, and still do. I've gotten opportunities to start over that some have never gotten, and I've barely done anything with them.

I came out to my mom in July, and my cousin in November, with varying results. My cousin is supportive and I love her for that, but based on the results with my mom it may be a bit before I ever tell my dad, especially considering some of the comments he's made and continues to make. I never thought growing out hair or doing benign stuff like shaving my legs could be a source of so much derision. I wish I could be that person who stands up to injustice or just stands up in general, but that has never been me. It hurts more than anything to be spat at and told I don't care about anyone or anything. I'm scared at how much I've internalized it. I thought as time passed I would grow to like how I look a bit more, but if anything I'm angry at how little progress I've made. When I first posted here, I was still lying to myself. I wanted to believe I didn't have dysphoria because I was so used to invalidating everything I felt. Yet no matter how much I want to not have to deal with hating almost everything about me, it's a reality.

It's undoubtedly been a year of highs and lows. My depression has gotten even worse and my anxiety affects me seemingly constantly. There are some days where I can barely do anything but lay in bed and think about who I am. I have a severe lack of motivation and it often boils into school and work. On the other hand, I've been able to be express myself far better online, and through that I've met people who I cherish with all my soul, even if I don't think I deserve to know them. I've had brushes with dark places on multiple occasions, and I fell in love. I've been harassed on here for simply being myself, and also fully fell in love with music. I think the most accurate way to describe this year would be an experience. There's been tears, laughter, frowns, smiles, bigots, friends. I've done so much wrong and I guess this has been my year of trying to not only live with that, but make things right. I can't say I'm fully there. I still doubt myself, both in character and gender. But it's perspective from others that helps me sort what is true and what I want to put on myself. Above all though, I'm Kate, I'm bi and trans, and you bet your ass I'm not going anywhere. Thank you
 

Steorra

nya smells
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Discord Leader
All my life I've always felt like a weird human being, all of my habits were a bit unorthodox and I've always pondered on why so. In recent years something I've thought about in specific is just me and how I felt about being a male and it not being something suited for me. 1-2 years ago i was hanging out with friends and specifically female friends and felt some kind of connection when they were talking about theirselves, i didnt think much of it though, move to like 5 months ago or so i was staring into space and thinking about someone I lost while listening to a song that spoke of the true heart and started having dreams of a mixture of both and made me feel misplaced.

After about a month of thinking about it, interacting with some lgbtq+ friends and reading the thread on smogon, i decided i wasnt happy with my current gender identity or such and thought back to myself that maybe i fit female more and i started doing more female associated things and felt a vibe and then one day someone called me she irl after knowing of my troubles and it vibed with me so i decided then that this was the right path. After a few months at that state though, I wasn't feeling fully fulfilled with myself as much as the first few days or so with that identity. I also started reminiscing of someone I knew in the past that I've long lost and how they were one of the few people I was more sociable towards and that stirred up a lot of feelings in me, mostly making me more depressed as usual. After thinking about it once more I started exploring being non-binary and talked to a few irl friends that identified as such.

After talking to them and thinking some more, I thought that non-binary might suit me best, I've never felt a particular attachment to either gender, and even when I was younger I always thought so. I will most likely have to keep my old identification the same irl due to this country not being very friendly to lgbtq folks so I'm more or less open to any pronouns. I haven't really been able to interact with much humans due to covid, as socially introverted as I am I do miss conjugating with some of my friends physically, and hence haven't really been able to find anyone I love in particular irl but hey hope is covid ends sooner rather than later.

tl;dr I identify as non-binary and don't really mind any pronoun.

Cenane faded love Yami Avery Kate omi ♥️ Solaros & Lunaris Plague von Karma Ainzcrad and whoever else, no matter how long I've known any of you or how much I've talked to any of you, you've been great friends to me. idk what I would've done during lockdown and being in seldom a lot, but talking to any of you always brought something to me. Im pretty socially introverted so getting the chance to talk to any of u is a great opportunity for me and I'm grateful.
 
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hello,

i don't really use the forums much anymore and i'm not really sure how many people will see this but i'd like to discuss something. for the past few years i've used she/they pronouns. feel like queer is just the best umbrella to describe myself. anyway, moving forward i'd appreciate for others to refer to me with gender neutral pronouns (they/them). i still do identify with she/they, but i feel that neutral pronouns feel correct for the time being and i'd like that to be reflected in my interactions here. thank you so much.

hope everyone is doing well, and having a great day. :heart:
 

sensei axew

i’m not a stop along the way, i’m a destination
is a Community Contributoris a Three-Time Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
i didn’t really want to post this but i just need to let something out.

i’m so sick and tired of living in a world with so much hatred towards me simply because of who i’m attracted to. for context, yesterday i was at the beach on a date with this guy that i really like. we’re just minding our own business like cuddling when this group of 4 guys come up to us and start cursing us and calling us the f slur and all of that. and now today after an argument my dad goes “its all because youre a stupid fucking f slur”. and i just sat there unphazed like it was normal. and because it is. this happens so often to me that its almost a daily occurrence especially with my family who still tries to set me up with girls even though ive told them a million fucking times that im gay.

and idk what i’m trying to say but i just want to live my life being able to love who i love without being consistently judged and harassed for it. all i’m asking is to be treated like a normal guy who is simply attracted to guys but at this point, even in the middle of deep blue new jersey, i don’t see see that ever happening
 

Oglemi

Borf
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i didn’t really want to post this but i just need to let something out.

i’m so sick and tired of living in a world with so much hatred towards me simply because of who i’m attracted to. for context, yesterday i was at the beach on a date with this guy that i really like. we’re just minding our own business like cuddling when this group of 4 guys come up to us and start cursing us and calling us the f slur and all of that. and now today after an argument my dad goes “its all because youre a stupid fucking f slur”. and i just sat there unphazed like it was normal. and because it is. this happens so often to me that its almost a daily occurrence especially with my family who still tries to set me up with girls even though ive told them a million fucking times that im gay.

and idk what i’m trying to say but i just want to live my life being able to love who i love without being consistently judged and harassed for it. all i’m asking is to be treated like a normal guy who is simply attracted to guys but at this point, even in the middle of deep blue new jersey, i don’t see see that ever happening
Not a solution I would recommend to everyone, or really advocate in general, but anecdotally I've removed the toxic Trumpers in my family out of my life and I'm much happier for it. This is mostly my mother's side, and while I do miss them to a degree, because it's not like they're inherently bad people or abusive, having had not interacted with them since the start of Covid I can say with confidence I feel way better off having not seen them than when I would see them for every holiday and events normally. My boyfriend can say the same, which primarily includes his dad. Not sure how much I'll see them once Covid is "over," but I have a feeling it'll be far less than previously. I've given up on just "dealing" with people.

Anyway I guess my rambling is, if possible, just removing yourself from people in your life that cause you stress is an option, even if family.

Nothing we can really do about assholes on the street/beach tho
 

Theia

Say my name until you love me
is a Tournament Directoris a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnus
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So today my grandad was talking to me about how I should start looking to get married and preparing for kids (I'm about to turn twenty, calm down), so I tried to explain to him what being aromantic is, since this isn't really ever a topic I've broached with him, or anyone in my family for that matter. For context, he is very strongly right wing, and believes that any sort of LGBTQ+ portrayal in the media means that it's "the media forcing their 'diversity agenda' down our throats" or some shit. To make a long story short, he doesn't believe that aromanticism is a real thing, and that I'm "too young to know what I want" and that "one day I'll want children". Needless to say, I'm a little bit annoyed.

Just want to take this opportunity to tell everyone that you matter. Your experiences matter, your identity matters, who you love and how you choose to love them matters and nobody gets to tell you otherwise.
 
Hey y'all, I am just here to say, as a Trans woman and a Lesbian, to everyone having issues, or anything related: You are so fucking valid. Don't matter if you're gay, trans, ace, or whatever the fuck you are. Be who you wanna be. Be happy, your happiness matters more then everything. Love you all. And if you are having some kind of issue; don't worry. Be strong and pull through it, because I know you can.
 
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Tranquility

Kuru~Kuru
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I'm Bi, been so for about 2 years now (and also have been using my pronouns as they/them). Not something that I really care about myself but it's help me find a self identity through stressful times and allow me to be truly myself, and I hope whatever preference you guys have can help y'all live your lives to the fullest just like it has for me.
 
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i have couple of online freinds who are gay , the prob is that we all live in china , i have the chance to live in Macao so there is less danger but most of them live in ultra anti LGBT regions like Inner Mongolia or the Shanghai area

Finalement l'OMS (Mondial Organization of safe and healty?) reconnait qu'etre transsexuel n'est pas une maladie!

I'm so happy.
En anglais ca se dit World Health Organizationet ca fait un bout de temps que c est pas recconu comme une maladie , en revanche les organisations religieuse et anti LGBT bien evidemment disent que oui
 

Annika

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Programmer
PS Admin
hello :) i've been thinking some more about stuff that i wanna get off my chest again, so i wrote another needlessly long essay about stuff, feel free to skip it entirely, read some portions, or read it all, up to you!

bi the way:
romance / sex inbifference: within ace and aro spaces, aside from the obvious spectra of romantic and sexual attraction, there also tends to be spectra for romance / sex in terms of willingness to do it despite your lack of attraction (but it's not exclusive to aro and ace people), so you can be asexual and sex favorable, for example, which means you don't get attracted to anyone sexually, but you're down to have sex and might even actually pursue it / enjoy it, etc. or you could be aromantic and romance repulsed, which means the thought of romance is gross or incomprehensible to you, and you'd never see yourself in a relationship, etc. a comparison i like to make here, is with food, imagine allo people have hunger occasionally (as romantic / sexual attraction) but aro / ace people don't, if you're not hungry you can still eat food, so romance / sex favorability is just how much you like that food. if you're favorable it's like pizza on a friday night, tasty french fries with your sauce of choice, or a bar of semisweet chocolate. if you're indifferent it's like a good ol' rice or like a salad, nothing too interesting, but nothing you can't eat sparingly and sporadically. and if you're repulsed, well, then it's just like a gross olive... or a conspicuous pickle... or a very disgusting pumpkin... or just mushroom stew... you get the idea (how the hell do people eat those????)! i wonder if doing that metaphor with drinks instead of food would be better, given the double meaning of "thirsty", but i think the idea is easier to digest with food (get it?), so i'll leave the analogy as is, hahaha!

so... i was wondering where exactly i lied in either spectra, and i came to the conclusion that i think i am indifferent to either, but i can't know for sure, as you can imagine, i don't have much field experience, and it's not like the pandemic is allowing for much of that, anyway. but that got me thinking, if i am in fact, indifferent and not repulsed, what genders am i cool with having relationships with? do i even have any preferences?

i am obiviously straight, r-right?: so my whole life i thought i was straight, as most people do, since i never really had any romantic or sexual drive for the other gender (or any gender, for that matter) i just kinda had nothing to challenge the heteronormative status quo. you know, straight until proven otherwise? that's how society usually sees thing. and hey, i looked at girls and got aesthetic attraction, they are beautiful! and since i was never taught to look at men in the same light, i just never saw it as "my sexuality" but rather me just "me looking at a guy and thinking he looks kinda cute", which, for a lot of straight people is possible. so even though all i had for either gender was mostly just similar levels of aesthetic attraction, for women i translated that as romantic / sexual attraction, and for men i just thought of as nothing (which is kinda is, but still).

and honestly? heteronormativity is strong. it's really hard to challenge the world view that's been planted into your head for all your life, you need a lot of counter-evidence to be able to challenge it. i remember watching natalie wynn's video: shame [1], in which she talks about how her and many other women, cis or trans, took so long to realise they weren't straight. in fact, this video was a big inspiration to get me to start thinking about this. it's honestly something really hard to challenge, or at least it's been for me.

so after a lot of thinking i came to realise that i don't really have a preference for a particular gender, i am not attracted to any of them, but were i to find myself in a relationship, i'd be happy with any gender, women, men, non-binary, and so on!

obiented aroace: thankfully, the ace community has me covered, there's a term called oriented aroace, which entails exactly people who are aroace, but experience other forms of attraction or preference to gender. i think it originally is aimed at distinguishing tertiary attractions (such as aesthetic, alterous, platonic, etc, from romantic and sexual), but it can also be used to disclose preference, for the case of someone who isn't romance / sex repulsed. i don't personally feel the need to disclose or explore other forms of attraction within my orientation, but all power to those who do, of course! it can be very important for aro and ace people especially! but for me, when i say i'm bi-oriented, i mean mostly that i have a preference for any gender if i were to "eat without being hungry", going back to my prior analogy.

to bi or to pan: i think i prefer the term bi over pan for me personally because, ironically, while i kinda am gender blind for myself (feeling very agender with that beard and those boardshorts!), i am not gender blind for other people. i see attraction to women as one thing, for men another, and for non-binary people something else entirely. natalie said in her video how her aesthetic attraction to men was comparable to looking at a sturdy greek pillar or building, and i think that is the perfect comparison for me as well. it definitely feels different to me, whereas looking at a woman is like looking at the venus de milo or something, and pan usually carries the gender blind concept with it (at least as far as i know it does), which doesn't really apply to me for the reasons i've stated.

relationship adbice: now, i've answer the question i initially set out to ask, but i don't think my problem is wholly solved here. like, i think i'm sex indifferent and bi-oriented, but what do i do with that? how will i ever get into a relationship with someone i'm by definition not attracted to? society often places on men the role of being active / pursuing the relationship (and i am cis passing as fuck), so how will i ever take on that active role, for someone i'm not attracted to? should i just wait until someone reaches out? it's happened before, once or twice, but i was too shy to act on it. and most importantly, will i even enjoy it? will i even be comfortable? these are all questions i have no idea how to answer. i feel lost in a maze of loneliness that i never will be able to get out. in one hand, i don't really mind, because i'm not attracted to anyone, and i'm pretty introverted, so i'm comfy where i am, but... on the other hand i do mind, i mind it a lot, i want to be able to experience these things! if only once! i don't wanna feel like a failure (not just in societies eyes, but mine also)... and there are so many barriers in the way... i don't know how, when, or how to begin explaining to someone about my sexuality and orientation, it will literally take, like, at least half an hour...? how do i explain to a straight or bi girl that i am not attracted to her and that i might be uncomfortable doing some stuff with her but i wanna do it still? how do i explain to a gay or bi guy that i am not attracted to him but it's not internalised homophobia. it's just... a lot, and i don't know what to do about it, how to do it, or when to do it. hopefully i'll be able to figure out how to navigate myself on all this, but, i'm not sure how soon that'll be, it still feels like i am nowhere near close to that...

labils: one last thing i wanna touch on, is how looking out for and having so many labels makes me feel a bit uncomfortable in a sense, like i'm trying to get attention or whatever (but trust me, attention is the last thing i want). "bi-oriented aro/ace agender, do you really need all that?" and no, honestly i don't. i wish there was a world where i wouldn't need to explain myself to other people, but i do, and labels are a great way to communicate things. it can also make you feel welcomed in a community, knowing there's people out there like you, that you're not just a freak of nature that no one will ever love (or well, maybe this last part is ironically true). but yeah, these are important to me. and i don't need to disclose everything all at once, i can use the labels when and where they're relevant. e.g. a guy asks me if by chance i'm not straight and i could say i'm bi. or a girl asks me if i'm uncomfortable with anything and i could say i'm ace and so and so. now these are obviously very hypothetical scenarios that would never happen in real life, but i'm just trying to illustrate a point here. labels are important for communication, and for a sense of belonging, so yes, that's why i need 5 words to explain my orientation and gender, sorry not sorry.

to abbrebiate: i am aroace (as i've said in my prior post [2]) but also bi-oriented, what that personally means to me, is that i do not get romantic or sexual attraction towards people of any gender, but i am open / indifferent to those kinds of relationships with people of any gender, that's all!
loving the bi puns
 

Kaiju Bunny

♥・゚: * ̄(♡ㅅ♡❀) ̄
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Artistis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Art Leader
So before I even get into the main point here, I'll be honest with y'all, I'm just a naturally very shy person, especially when it comes to this sort of stuff, so if something comes out awkward, I wholeheartedly apologize, though I've been trying to find a proper way to present this for like, a month
:psytear:

To put things shortly, I can finally say with full confidence that I am a demigirl! c:

I probably should've known this at a way younger age; there were plenty of hints to it, though knowledge in general of lgbtq+ didn't extend much further than just those who were gay and those who were lesbian when I was still in grade school, when these self "hints" started popping up for me. When I was very young (at least, to the best of my memory), my birthday and Christmas toys were always heavily geared towards your stereotypical young girl. I had Barbies, Bratz, Polly Pocket, Care Bears, etc.; you know, "girl" stuff. My mom must've caught on quick that this sort of stuff never appealed to me though, as when I got the chance, I showed her I was much more interested in other things. One of my favorite childhood toys was a stuffed spider, I had a few of those plastic bug toys, I watched Transformers with my brother, and generally, I enjoyed making messes in mud puddles and playing video games. At some point, I grasped the concept of a "tomboy," and for a while, smol me did consider that I was just that (though identity was still a pretty muddy concept to me. I think I was like, 7 or 8 when I was thinking that I was a tomboy because I hated overly girly things).

As I grew up, I eventually ignored my self "hints" and attempted to force myself to be your average ordinary typical girl, most notably in Middle School. I had plenty of "teen girl" magazines, would buy new clothes and make up, and would even attempt to hang out with friends and go to the mall, but come High School, I realized that just... Wasn't who I was to any extent, and it was doing way more harm than good to try and be something I clearly wasn't.

Speaking of High School, that's when things became insanely unstable for me. On one hand, I was way more accepting of who I was as a person. I accepted I loved video games and watching LPs, I accepted that I enjoyed sweatpants and sweatshirts when I went out instead of always getting gussied up in skirts and dresses. I still thought of myself as a girl, but I accepted there was more to it than just stereotypes. But something wasn't right still.

You'd think I'd fully accept myself for who I was at this point, but every time I told myself I was a girl, something would just feel off. I never let it bug me too much though. At this point (Junior / Senior years of HS), being lgbtq+ was becoming a lot more prominent in my school as my friends and others started discovering who they truly were as people, which was great and filled me with so much happiness for them because they were happy too! Fsr though, my brain didn't jump on this opportunity to truly discover who I was? I think my main problem was receiving wicked backlash from my family if they had ever found out, so I always just stuck with I was a girl, plain and simple.

Maybe I was a late bloomer, but I didn't start noticing and listening to my self "hints" until a couple of years into college. I had noticed I preferred to hang out with male friends and really only ever hung out with male friends. I just always saw myself as "one of the guys," and I'd frequently play games with them online like Monster Hunter and Warframe to name a couple.

To make something clear, I just wanna make a quick disclaimer and mention that I don't feel like a dude to any extent, nor do I think I ever felt I was ;; I just... Didn't feel like a girl.

And now we're here. Things have been clicking into place for quite a while now for me. With the help of some of the PS! and Smogon communities (you guys know who you are c:), I'm pretty much fully comfortable with who I am as a person.

I no longer worry so much about my weight and being obsessed with being skinny (I at one point was attempting to drop to 125 lbs because I believed it to be far more feminine than the 150 I was at before, even though my doctor expressed immediate concern and told me I'd suffer from anorexia if I tried to given my body type, but I'm now at a comfortable 143 lbs! Though I'm hoping to make it down to at least 135), I'm more comfortable with having such a bulky frame (I like to joke I have "football" shoulders because at least to me they're awfully wide), and I'm most importantly very comfortable with my voice, which was something I struggled with for a while. For short context, I believe my voice to be surprisingly low, far lower than what I'd ever be comfortable with, but now that I know who I truly am, I feel it's really quite fitting and now actually gives me confidence c:

ofc I obviously still know I'm very feminine and accept this part of me, but now I can fully accept the not so feminine parts of me too n.n

Thank you for reading if you chose to! I figured now would be the best time to share given the beginning of pride month! Hoping it's a great month for everyone! Take care!

 

Annika

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PS Admin
sorry for this post on the first day of pride month, which should definitely be more celebratory... I just needed to get things out... I know I shouldn’t complain about too much because my life has gotten better and better recently. I’m not in too dark of a place anymore, but a lot of things are really up in the air for me right now. I just have to make it through these next two and a half months or so, and then I move out to college! Make it there, I can really think that I’ve made it!
You shouldn't feel like you have to apologize for talking about anti-LGBT sentiment during Pride month. Pride isn't just about rainbows and happy LGBT people; it's also for people in difficult situations and those facing oppression. Speaking out about transphobia is just as appropriate for Pride as sharing a happy coming-out story.
 

Ren

i swore lips were made for lies
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I'm not really sure how to do these things but in case you all didn't know, this is me coming out as asexual to the entire Smogon community rather than just friends who asked the right questions or said the right things. Happy pride month!
 

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