Project Personal SS DOU Viability Rankings

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Darkmalice

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Random thoughts where I felt useful:
  • Tier 1. Kyurem-B as just overall really strong, soft-checking much of the metagame and have to account for AV + DD. Rillaboom super splashable, excellent glue and strong sponge with AV. Can also use more offensive spread like Eject button. Kartana tier 1 as best end-game cleaner imo and can threaten its checks (3 most common Fire-types either weak to Sacred Sword or don't resist Leaf Blader, other Fire-type users like Dragapult and Genesect have to lock into Fire, Fighting types weak to Leaf Blade or Sacred Sword)
  • Tier 2. Urishfu close to Tier 1 but I felt needed too much support to shine (it's Tier 1 in a Goth metagame). Fini ain't Tier 1 anymore with the offensive and Grass-based becoming gradually more unkind to it
  • Tier 3. Moved some stuff down as felt Tier 2 was too large. Blastoise is good, just doesn't seem necessary to have a full dedicated supporter in this metagame. Mew is good, just not to the level of the others. Lando-T is definitely not Tier 2.
 

Noelle

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My viability Rankings. The pokemon that are highlighted are subject to change, but i'll probably talk about each one individually
Tier 1: Dominant pokemon with very few bad matchups (kyurem, kartana) or are just extremely splashable and fit on almost every team (rillaboom, fini)
Tier 2: Pokemon that are good but match up poorly against the tier 1 or other tier 2 mons
Tier 3: Pokemon that are a little inconsistent but have a solid niche
Tier 4: Pokemon that i think have potential, but are either just worse versions of other pokemon (scrafty, pelipper) or are just inconsistent (registeel, cresselia, nihilego, spectrier, ect.
Tier 5: Pokemon that are pretty bad rn and match up poorly against a lot of stuff
UR: I either have no idea what these pokemon do (latias, suicune, entei) or they're just garbage (regieleki, dusclops, ect.)

Subject to Change:</p><p>Tapu Fini: Tapu Fini is great. It can wall pretty much every special attacker after a few calm minds and hits incredibly hard, but because of the popularity of rillaboom and kartana, it might drop down a tier. Even kyurem black and zeraora can bea it after it's been chipped
Urshifu R: It's good, but consistently loses to rillaboom, kartana, and fini and has a pretty bad matchup against kingdra and volcanion too. Might move it down a tier depending on where the meta goes from here
Naganadel: Hot take: Naganadel is underrated. Specs naganadel matches up well against a LOT of the current meta, even stuff that probably should beat it. It drops a draco on zygarde and kyube, sludge bomb/waves fini and triple axel tsareena, flamethrower/fire blasts kartana, excadrill (outside of sand) genesect and rillaboom, and can run tbolt to hit stuff like politoed, pelipper, and maybe even kingdra if you don't want to drop a draco on it for some reason. It can be a tailwind support as well because of it's great speed tier, and set up tspikes while it's out (it might actually not get tspikes, i forgot and i don't feel like checking rn). And the things that do beat it (scarf lando, excadrill, dragapult) aren't very popular on ladder from my personal experience. idc if i get shit on for this, naganadel 100% deserves to be tier 2 imo, but everyone seems to hate it for some reason and i just don't get it
Kommo-o: Kommo-o is solid against anything that isn't a fairy type. The problem is, well, fairy types. It's inconsistent, but it has potential. I might move it up a tier, but no higher than tier 3
Cresselia: Honestly cress is pretty inconsistent, but once it gets set up stab stored power is gonna be hittin different. The problem is if your opponent has incin, urshifu rapid or kartana you're fucked. Probably moving down to UR, fini is much more consistent and harder to ignore
Registeel: same thing as cress. it's inconsistent but once it gets set up it's near impossible to remove, but if your opponent brought a crit mon you're fucked. Moving down to UR, just use metagross for a tanky steel type, and just use diancie if you wanna do body press stuff
Tornadus: I've literally never seen this thing on ladder, but it might be good, so it might move up a tier
Entei: Again, literally never seen this thing, but it might move up once i do some research
Also the tiers aren't ordered
Volcanion: I saw actuarily put this is tier 1. I've never really struggled with it, so i wondered why theythought it was tier 1, and then i thought about it. Great bulk, 2 4x resists (and one immunity if you count water absorb), can 1v1 fini in some scenarios because it resists both of it's stabs and doesn't even die to a +4 moonblast iirc, and it also hits hard. get this thing some leftovers and slap it behind a sub and it can be extremely difficult to remove. it honestly doesn't even need tr, it'sbulky enough that it doesn't even matter if you're moving last. I'm not sure if it's tier 1,but it's definitely at the top of tier 2
 

Idyll

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Now that I'm back in the fray for SS DOU, I'm here to answer the call with the Official People's Champ's Based™ SS DOU Viability Rankings, complete with trademark assessments of Pokemon honesty-dishonesty and better visualized evaluations of Pokemon strength and value relative to each other within the metagame!



[KEY NOTES]

The x-axis is on the Pokemon's viability, pretty much. Essentially, this is based on the Pokemon's general effectivenss; they're basically my personal VR placement, as seen on the labels at the bottom. This is self-explenatory

The y-axis is on the moral implications of using the Pokemon. People that I interact with would know that I occasionally describe Pokemon as either honest or dishonest, or somewhere between the two; this is essentially for ranking Pokemon along this spectrum. It's tough to exactly to describe so what I'll be saying here is a rough definition, it's really more about seeing the Pokemon with the heart and soul. Honest Pokemon tend to have straightforward and fair kits, they tend to not bullshit you in game, and you'll know what's coming e.g. Nihilego, Rillaboom, and Incineroar; on the other hand, dishonest Pokemon are the ones that make your blood boil whenever you face them, due to having kits that are BS in some way or being teched for the meta to a deranged degree e.g. Kartana, Latias, Escavalier. Pokemon in the middle tend to be straightforward but they either are anti-meta to a fault or have aspects of their kit which are are wack e.g Urshifu-R, Buzzwole, Moltres-G; or they're metagame-neutral but have some sketchy characteristics about them e.g. Zeraora, Amoonguss, Politoed.

[DESCRIBING QUADRANTS]

I'm going to be describing the quadrants here, along with justifications for 2-3 for each as examples.

Top-Tier—Honest are the based Pokemon. They're the good mons in the meta that are by themselves fair to play against; there's nothing really anything that will catch you off-guard, and if you have proper preparation and metagame knowledge nothing should surprise you. Dragapult, for example, is as honest as it could be with Choice Specs since it effectively is just a fast hard-hitter with decent resistances, though gets docked some honesty due to how DD can go guerilla. Rillaboom controls terrain, brings speed control with Glide, and pivots out; the only thing that can be dishonest about it is the flex moveslot but that's easy to prep for. Lastly, Heatran can be seemingly dishonest due to how it's raining down Eruptions in Tailwind, but really it's just doing its job as a strong hitter that's otherwise unremarkable if not for an accomplice in Kartana.

Top-Tier—Dishonest are the gamers. They're good, but they're honestly disgusting; they either have some satanic in their kits, can do satanic stuff in practice, or are teched against the meta to a degree that only demons would do. The prime example of this is Kartana as its ability to 50% crit lets it apply some crazy pressure that can't be Intimidated and it's also generally the best Tailwind setter in the tier, making it pretty much the best Pokemon in SS DOU rn. Zapdos is around here because it specifically exploits good match-ups against Urshifu-R and the Grass-types while also being able to set fast Tailwind, though it's fair enough by itself that it's closer to the center.

Garbage—Honest is the mished category of Pokemon. They're respectable, but they're obviously flawed in some way or another. Nihilego, the most honest Pokemon in SS DOU, is a prime example of mished as it literally has only one set and you know what's coming, but it's obviously limited as it's walled by Zygarde and Metagross, it's prey to Kartana and Rillaboom, and outside of attacking it offers no utlity to the team. Porygon2 is here because it just sets Trick Room and sits around as it tries to use its coverage to do damage; outside of variations between Toxic and Thunderbolt, there's really nothing that can qualify as dishonest about it as what it does is incredibly telegraphed.

Garbage—Dishonest is what we call Gastrodon-tier. It's so named because Gastrodon is (or should be) widely recognized as a piece of shit Pokemon that's only good for one specific niche, which it fulfills to a sharp degree. Of course, since this is a spectrum of sorts the Pokemon here qualify in degrees. Tornadus, Latias, and Naganadel are here for pretty much the same thing; they're Tailwind-setters that are faster than Kartana and resist Grass, and they have their respective qualities that make them decent picks over the others. Kommo-o, one of the more neutral Pokemon here, has some good match-ups all around but one can't help shake the feeling that it's only really popping because Tapu Fini is not as popular as it should be (and it matches up well vs Z Strts HO), with this exploitation of trends having a hint of dishonesty to it. Registeel is here because it can be a bit satanic once stuff like Heatran are down, as it can Iron Defense to victory or something.

[CLOSING]

As always, this is all personal opinion, though as far as I'm aware this is an objectively correct and accurate chart; do note that the distance between placement and my actual personal perception may vary. Opinions can be shared to me on the DOU Discord server. I also have the template for this if you wish.

Here is the Tiermaker version of my Personal VR, though note that some Pokemon are missing.
 

Noelle

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NEW TIER LIST!!!


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Broken Tier: I don't think "average" and "kyurem black" have ever been used in the same sentence since the beginning of time. Do i even need to explain this one? hits everything for at least neutral damage, objectively has the best stats out of everything else in this format, and has the ability to beat literally every single one of it's checks. A hard counter to kyurem literally doesn't exist. examples?

+1 136 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 374-440 (109.6 - 129%) -- guaranteed OHKO so urshifu beats kyurem huh? Same thing happens to fini btw, and if you wanna talk about the assault vest set moonblast won't even kill, even at +3 while fusion bolt 2hkos without investment:

+3 156 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 88 SpD Assault Vest Kyurem-Black: 378-446 (83.4 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 136 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Tapu Fini: 274-324 (79.8 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and dd kyube just fucking kills you once it gets set up (moonblast still doesn't kill at +0 btw)


Remember how i said diancie was a hard counter a while ago? well uhh

+2 136 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Diancie: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and diamond storm doesn't even kill btw, it barely 2hkos on the best possible roll. seriously, what the fuck is this pokemon (also earth power 2hkos for the av set but dd kyube has an easier time with diancie because your teammates can just click fake out to allow for it to get free setup turns until you can 2hko with fusion bolt and not worry about weakness policy, while av has to worry about weakness policy constantly)

I could do this for literally every kyube check but i think you get the idea. Kyurem black has the ability to straight up just beat every single one of it's checks depending on the set, and if you guess wrong you can literally just autolose depending on the matchup. 100% deserves a suspect test and i will not shut up about this thing until it gets one

Tier 1: ok, now i can talk about not completely broken mons. kart is broken 50% of the time. it has access to tailwind and is still a massive threat offensively. The only reason it's not going in kyube tier is the 4x weakness and low spdef are extremely abusable when playing against it and it actually has hard counters unlike kyu b (zapdos, latias, genesect, naganadel, dragapult, ect.) rillaboom just fits on literally every style of team. i've never seen a team and thought "yeah rillaboom is dogshit on this team". it just works well with everything and straight up invalidates so many of the pokemon in the lower tiers, like dracovish for example. urshifu is a pokemon that i never really thought was that good. it definitely deserves t1 but it's not as good as the other mons in t1 and it's much more abusable (literally every pokemon above it beats it. kart and rillaboom are self explanatory and i showed the kyu b calc)

Tier 2: I'm not gonna go over every pokemon in t2, just ones i think stand out. I think tsareena is pretty good. blocking priority without being invalidated by rillaboom (looking at you lele) is pretty valuable and it has a great movepool. I've already explained buzzwole in th acutal viability rankings thread, but basically it's great into everything in t1 and a ton of stuff in t2 and 3. it's not perfect, but i love it, and you should too. lando incarnate is something i should experiment with more, but it hits really hard and has pretty good coverage so it goes here ig. politoed and kingdra are here bc i like rain and everything else is self explanatory imo

Tier 3: This is stuff that's good, just kinda matchup dependent. again, not gonna go over every single pokemon like i did for t1, basically, t3 is the border of what i think if viable.

Tier 4: t4 and trash tier kinda blend together. i think all the pokemon in both of these tiers are trash outside of a few exceptions like ttar and steela, which i don't think are complete shit. Most of these pokemon have SOME kind of niche i guess? still wouldn't recommend using them though

TRASH: exactly what it sounds like. trash. complete garbage pokemon. 0/10, wouldn't recommend
 
We are back! Regular season of SCL has concluded, so it's time for everyone to post their personal Viability Rankings! Here are some reminders from the original post.
  • Use this amazing tiermaker created by zeefable to not only make it easier for yourself, but also so the thread looks nice. All pokemon either ranked on the VR or DOU by usage is included, as well as some other Pokemon that have seen some ladder/tournament usage.
  • No description is required. Feel free to just drop your tiermaker and dip. Of course, any explanation is appreciated.
    • Please note if the Pokemon in your subranks at ranked by viability, alphabetical order, or just random.
  • If you want to make a formal nomination, be sure to do so in the actual viability rankings thread, or else it probably won't get voted on.
  • I will like every post to encourage participation.
Lastly, I'm going to tag some players that were drafted to play Doubles in SCL, as well as those who did well in Majors and Seasonals. Even if I do not tag you, you are still encouraged to post your viability rankings. I want to hear as many people's opinions as possible. Everyone's ranking will be weighed the same.
 

Noelle

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I'll explain some of these ig

RE: Tapu Fini: This is my favorite pokemon in the tier. It's tier 2 and i still think its underrated, and idc who disagrees. Tapu fini is a very solid pokemon with a ton of different sets and regardless of what set you pick it's almost never useless. As someone who's been using fini almost exclusively for over a year its easily, like, top 5 pokemon in the tier and 100% deserves t1 (at least on my vr)

RE: Kyurem-Black: look at its stats

RE: P2: look at its stats

RE: Urshifu: I don't think urshifu is that good rn. It has p bad mus into a lot of t1 and 2 on this list and it's scl winrate isnt anything to write home about (not including mirrors). It's not bad, i just think it has a lot more problems in this bulkier meta

RE: Celesteela: The best bad pokemon in the tier. I don't get the hype, meteor beam is a cool set, its just too slow and doesn't hit particularly hard. I get why its used, its just too matchup dependent imo.

RE: Zygarde: lando is just better. zyg usage has been dwindling recently, it just doesn't hit hard enough and the natural bulk isnt enough to make up for it

RE: Rillaboom: Rillaboom hasnt felt as good recently, idk. It's not bad and never will be, I just feel like it's a bit harder to justify using rn, idk, a lot of stuff has good matchups into it and tsareena's high usage along with psyspam limit how much it can do with grassy glide and fake out stuff.

Re: Scrafty: Fuck this thing, its bad don't use it

ik not everyone will agree with my takes but i also don't care, fini is t1 and dont let anyone tell you otherwise. (i forgot but tiers are loosely ordered)
 

Meminger21

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The Tier 1, 1.5, 2 and 3 are ordered.

Tier 1.5: Basically Diancie and Incineroar are way better than the Tier 2 pokemons but I don't think they reach the same level of dominance of Tier 1 mons. Urshifu-R is also there because of the lack of checks to it, now it isn't as dominant as it was a few months ago but it's still very threatening. And there's also Zygarde that I said on the VR thread should also be here, but Landorus is now one of the best in the tier, being hard to justify two ground types on a team and it also doesn't hit strong enough, I still put it on top of t1 though.

I didn't talk in detail about the pokemons of the Tier 1.5 on the VR thread so I'm gonna do it here:

:Diancie: Diancie's bulk allows it to survive almost any non-boosting attack that isn't Steel-type, activating WP and using powerful Diamond Storms. Not only that but it can almost always use TR at least once in a match and paired with Volcanion they can break the most of the tier. It can also soft check Kyurem-B, probably the best pokemon on the tier rn.

:Incineroar: Incineroar's access to Intimidate, Fake Out and Parting Shot makes it the best utility pokemon on the tier. I also threatens Rillaboom with its STAB and checks Kyurem-B. Being able to use Knock Off is also incredible this generation since there's no megas or z-moves.

:Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: Urshifu-R can probably 2HKO the whole tier apart from Fini and Amoonguss, but it has a bad Sp Def and some important weakness, this way pokemons like Rillaboom, Zeraora, Landorus and Naganadel can all move first and threaten it.
 
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All tiers roughly ordered.
Some brief thoughts:

Tier 1 is basically Rilla, Incin and 4 mons that can win a game by themselves if you give them an inch. There is a bit of a gap between Rilla and Diancie but I think you have to respect Diancie and Amoong both at the builder and in game enough to put them at Tier 1. I got smashed by Tenzai's Amoong yesterday and Spurrific spent the majority of his SCL game vs Para asleep from Spore.

Tier 2 is basically the rest of the consistently good mons and your choice of water/fire/steel is largely going to come down to the rest of the team.

Tier 3 has a bunch of interesting mons. Celesteela is really threatening but you have to play it more carefully than other top threats because it kinda sucks if you waste your Meteor Beam. Tsareena can be a real pain to deal with considering a lot of teams can rely on Fake Out to deal with opposing threats. Earth Power / U-Turn / Stealth Rock / Toxic Lando-T sets suck but the Banded set is something I think should be explored more often. Memo brought it twice in SCL and it managed to take 2 kills each game while providing some utility.

Tier 4 starts to become pretty niche. I don't really believe in Zapdos outside rain, being a base 100 speed Tailwind bot is not worthy of Tier 3 and Hurricane is a terrible move.

Tier 5 ranges from usable mons to stuff that someone used once and it didn't suck. I would consider putting Gigalith at the very bottom of 5, but that is more that I don't trust Ttar as a sand setter than I think it is a good mon.

A bunch of the UR mons could be cool in the right circumstances but I don't think they do enough to rank them.
 
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