Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

[TheNegotiator]

Milotic is not really a good partner for this specific Steelix set. Torment Lix was designed to exploit Suicune's ability to burn PP with Pressure in combination with their complementary typing. If you're looking for a Sturdy Pokemon, I think you'll be more at home with Skarmory who can definitely act as a more stand-alone Pokemon than Steelix. Skarmory has great synergy with Pokemon such as Flygon or Swampert.

one last question: would you say that it's worth it to have sub on milotic to try and dodge OHKO users? I would likely run a set of surf/toxic/recover/sub if that was the case. I wouldn't like missing out on ice beam but things like mence are prolly still manageable.

(I"m also aware that's not a foolproof anti-OHKO measure as you can still get quick claw sheer colded (or horn drilled) but it's still very good at avoiding OHKO moves)

 

[submenceisop]

one last question: would you say a near-perfect anti-OHKO measure (i.e Skarmoy or Torment Steelix + Pressure Suicune) is necessary to get really high streaks on the tower? It would be difficult to fit either of those on my CB Aero team, as Skarm and Aero don't have great synergy (outside of aero being able to pivot into fire moves) and I don't have access to a Suicune outside of the frlg one, which has terrible ivs

Torment and pressure is the best way to deal with it. I have both on my current team... with thief too, which borderline guarantees that I will out stall it provided I get the thief off. This drastically reduces the risk, but doesn't eliminate it. I can still get hit by a QC OHKO move. You just have to accept the L if that happens.

I'm not a fan of using Aerodactyl because it doesn't have the defensive synergy or bulk. CB in particular is only really viable as a lead and it doesn't provide any scouting support, no thief support, speed control or real way to support the team defensively. If you are using it for tower, I would say it's niche is probably as a pressure staller. CB is fun to use and it's nice when it works, but I don't think it's particularly great for long streaks.

Edit: Actaeon also used curse Aero in dome with pressure. That's actually a really fun way to use it too.

 

[TheNegotiator]

Torment and pressure is the best way to deal with it. I have both on my current team... with thief too, which borderline guarantees that I will out stall it provided I get the thief off. This drastically reduces the risk, but doesn't eliminate it. I can still get hit by a QC OHKO move. You just have to accept the L if that happens.

I'm not a fan of using Aerodactyl because it doesn't have the defensive synergy or bulk. CB in particular is only really viable as a lead and it doesn't provide any scouting support, no thief support, speed control or real way to support the team defensively. If you are using it for tower, I would say it's niche is probably as a pressure staller. CB is fun to use and it's nice when it works, but I don't think it's particularly great for long streaks.

thanks for the response! I think if I do try to go for a long streak with CB Aero, it would prolly be in the pyramid, as it achieves OHKOs on quite a lot of the wild pokes

I would be a bit difficult to teambuild with tho. I'm thinking Aero + Bliss and some sort of tank that can take physical hits well. I'll figure it out tho.

Really, Aero has a lot of potential, but its lack of defensive utility (outside of switching into normal, fire, and ground attacks once or twice) makes it hard to teambuild with

 

[iSoNkei]

Just wanted to know, with a Calm Protect + Torment Steelix, how do you play against Walrein 4? Surf does over 70 percent to it and even if you manage to torment it, it will still be able to kill Steelix with one of its coverage moves

My plan with my team (Aerodactyl, Steelix, Milotic) is to switch between Steelix and Milo, baiting out sheer cold until it runs out of pp but i'm not sure if that will work

If you are too afraid of 1-hit-KO moves you can consider Skarmory as a replacement for Steelix. A Carefully Sturdy Skarmory can take a Surf or two from Walrein-4 and is not afraid of EQ's from Rhydon. I have been using one for a while now and it does it's job pretty darn well. Some adjustments have to be made though in your team since you will have trouble against Electrics.

 

[Kommo-o]

Slight minor update, but I have now officially taken over the #1 spot on Level 50 Dome streaks and GUCCI GANG has hit 125 wins on retail. The only change on the team is that I have finally updated Suicune for Dome purposes and its Speed has been bumped to 148 Speed EVs. As pointed out by dgice, this allows Suicune to outspeed all Heracross variants on Dome making it a lot easier to deal with in the case that you jump in against it as a lead.

I'll later update the big post with this change but I'll leave an updated Pokepaste here and of course I attach a picture of the feat itself.

 

[Pokechad94]

If you keep getting bodied by Scyther (1 or 2) take one of the plethora of good rock types that are available in the early rounds: Omastar, Lunatone, Relicanth, or even Gligar with Aerial Ace.

Wow, yeah that's a brilliant idea. I'll give up on my Zangoose/Grumpig/Seviper set that sweeps 99% of threats set for a crappy rock type that might have a slightly better chance of killing Scyther but will cripple me in every other fight.

 

[YumaKuga]

Wow, yeah that's a brilliant idea. I'll give up on my Zangoose/Grumpig/Seviper set that sweeps 99% of threats set for a crappy rock type that might have a slightly better chance of killing Scyther but will cripple me in every other fight.

I mean sure they are shitty rock types, but hey you can maybe kill a Scyther now. In all fairness as much as you didnt like the suggestion, try not to come off as rude like you are. It was only a suggestion, not an attack on your 99% effective team setup, if you prefer going and still dying to Scythers then by all means keep doing that.
Also who's troll alt is this

 

[Kommo-o]

Wow, yeah that's a brilliant idea. I'll give up on my Zangoose/Grumpig/Seviper set that sweeps 99% of threats set for a crappy rock type that might have a slightly better chance of killing Scyther but will cripple me in every other fight.

There's no need for you to being rude with someone who was offering you legitimate good advice to overcome the hurdles you had been going through in Factory. As someone who hates everything about Factory, I admit that I actually took a good laugh at reading your shitpost. I'm all in for banter but I guess that PokeChad needs to spend his time trolling on the internet with random strangers rather than going out to the gym, read a book or get a girlfriend. I guess therapy wasn't enough for you.

 

[Actaeon]

Long time no post, but I've got an interesting and surprisingly simple team to share for anyone interested in getting high streaks with extremely good probability without too much understanding of the Frontier and technical maneuvering in-battle.

The team was based on my analysis of cancerKou and cancerAero, see this post for more in-depth information and statistical analyses. The idea is that Raikou outspeeds all physical threats except Crobat, while being able to wall Jolteon without any help. Its niche is being able to stall out all significant PP without speed control, and therefore the extremely reliable Skarmory can be used as the lead Thief crippler. In free/extra turns, the opponent's Accuracy is reduced, so Latios can setup eventually. This particular Latios is from my old Alakazam/Skarmory/Latios team and is special because it OHKOs the very dangerous second/third poke Quick Claw Metagross and Snorlax sets, so the most they can do is break my Substitute.

Skarmory (F)
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Thief
- Whirlwind
- Sand-Attack
- Torment

The most dependable lead. Gets Thief off against any QC physical (think of Rhydon, Ursaring, Golem, etc) and importantly discourages early use of Explosion. It survives a Quick Claw critical hit Ice Beam or Surf from Walrein-4, which is the toughest Special move it can tank. Moreover, it can usually Whirlwind out Explosion users without taking too much damage. Sand-Attack is for when Thief is not immediately needed, Whirlwind is for setup sweepers such as DD Salamence, Curselax, DD Gyarados, Scizor and such. These Pokemon usually keep boosting until they can (almost) KO Skarmory, so usually it's possible to use Whirlwind without much cost of HP.
The last move, Torment, is almost never necessary but it's a nice insurance against Crobat, who outspeeds Raikou. Technically it's possible to use Rest, Toxic, Protect or even an attack such as Aerial Ace (for Breloom) in this spot, but then it would be wise to give Raikou full Speed EVs so it outspeeds Crobat. Personally I think Torment can be extremely useful in weird or pinch-like scenarios, because against some opponents this enables Latios to setup for free by making use of smart switching and/or Substitute. Crobat is deal with because Skarmory ensures the -6 Accuracy against it, and with Torment you don't have to be that afraid of repeated Sludge Bombs and Confuse Rays against Raikou.

Here are some blessed defensive calcs:
255+ SpA Whiscash Surf vs. 252 HP / 244 SpD Skarmory on a critical hit: 127-150 (73.8 - 87.2%)
255+ Atk Rhydon Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 12+ Def Skarmory: 49-58 (28.4 - 33.7%)
255 SpA Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 244 SpD Skarmory on a critical hit: 142-168 (82.5 - 97.6%)
255+ Atk Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 12+ Def Skarmory on a critical hit: 140-165 (81.3 - 95.9%)
255 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 244 SpD Skarmory: 144-170 (83.7 - 98.8%)
0- SpA Golem Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 244 SpD Skarmory: 42-50 (24.4 - 29%)

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 220 HP / 108 Def / 180 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Protect
- Substitute
- Rest
- Flash

The inspiration of the team, but Sleep Talk has been replaced by Flash since Sleep Talk proved to be too situational. Outstalls pretty much every special attacker; by the time you have to use Rest they'll only have weak moves left (e.g. Starmie-3 will have 2 Ice Beams left and only Thunderbolts after that). Inflicts -6 Accuracy extremely well and usually leaves the field at full HP on the switch to Latios, so it's ready for even more stalling if absolutely necessary.

The EVs were taken from this post once again; they give Raikou a Leftovers number (1 mod 16), the blessed 173 Speed tier and the rest is put into Defense so it can take some weaker physical moves if needed (after the more dangerous moves are outstalled). These EVs make Raikou a moderately good mixed wall of sorts. Here are some calcs that might end up mattering at some point, although Raikou taking hits outside of its Substitute is a rare feat anyway:

255+ SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Raikou: 51-60 (26.4 - 31%)
255+ Atk Crobat Sludge Bomb vs. 220 HP / 108 Def Raikou: 73-87 (37.8 - 45%)
255+ Atk Crobat Sludge Bomb vs. 220 HP / 108 Def Raikou on a critical hit: 147-174 (76.1 - 90.1%) (but you Protect since it's Tormented)
255+ Atk Scizor Silver Wind vs. 220 HP / 108 Def Raikou: 63-75 (32.6 - 38.8%) (lives the next one as well if it gets the omniboost)

Latios (M) @ Dragon Fang
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 44 HP / 36 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Recover
- Dragon Claw

There's a saying: if it works, don't change it. This Latios was EV'ed to setup against accuracy-reduced Choice Band struggles with Recover, so it's certainly strong enough of the defensive side in this new environment where they don't have the Choice Band. For this reason I was able to optimize it a little further; it now has a little more HP so its Substitute (which sports 40 HP) is even sturdier against special attacks, mainly Regice's Ice Beam. It OHKOs QC Metagross amongst others:

+6 244+ SpA Dragon Fang Latios Dragon Claw vs. 170 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 178-210 (101.1 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 244+ SpA Dragon Fang Latios Dragon Claw vs. 170 HP / 170 SpD Snorlax: 260-307 (101.5 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 244+ SpA Dragon Fang Latios Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 255 SpD Scizor: 148-175 (102 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Aggron, Steelix and Umbreon are also guaranteed OHKOs.

+6 244+ SpA Dragon Fang Latios Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 255 SpD Blissey: 211-249 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This doesn't give Blissey enough time to outstall Dragon Claws by using Calm Mind + Softboiled.

+6 244+ SpA Dragon Fang Latios Dragon Claw vs. 255 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 179-211 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Here are some defensive calcs from powerful Struggles and attackers that either outspeed or survive +6/+6 Latios' assault:

255 Atk Pure Power Medicham Struggle vs. 44 HP / 36 Def Latios: 40-48 (24.8 - 29.8%) -- always breaks the Substitute
In Medicham's case, you just wait until it misses enough. Repeated critical hits don't realistically get through Recover at -6 Accuracy.
255+ Atk Rhydon Struggle vs. 44 HP / 36 Def Latios: 36-43 (22.3 - 26.7%) -- 43.8% chance to break the Substitute (used to be 50%)
255+ Atk Heracross Struggle vs. 44 HP / 36 Def Latios: 35-42 (21.7 - 26%) -- 31.3% chance to break the Substitute

Starmie's Ice Beam, Gengar's Ice Punch, Manectric's Crunch don't break the Substitute without a critical hit.

255+ SpA Regice Ice Beam vs. +6 44 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 37-44 (22.9 - 27.3%) -- 62.5% chance to break the Substitute

So what are the problems?
There's a couple of scenarios to watch out for. I'm listing the most realistic ones here:

• Even though Skarmory and Latios are opposite gender, Attract Breloom can be a nuisance. Raikou should be able to get off six Flashes though.
• Quick Claw Breloom can always wreak havoc if it Spores on turn 1. Against Breloom, use Thief under any circumstances. This also disrupts Focus Punch if you wake up.
• Quick Claw Latios-2 critical hitting Skarmory with Thunderbolt and haxing through Raikou as well (very unlikely)
• Too many setuppers on one team; think, for example, of a team consisting of DDMence, DDGyara and Fearow (Keen Eye). I encountered this exact team, kept Whirlwinding until Fearow came out and still setup to +2 without a Substitute against its Struggles, which is enough for Latios to sweep (Gyarados was Twave so Substitute in its face to block it). This is a great example: it might not be possible to fully setup in this case, but Skarmory is able to reveal their entire team so you know exactly "what you need".
• Some Pokemon are able to inflict relevant damage on Skarmory when you try to Whirlwind them out. These include Zap Cannon Forretress and flinch-haxing Regirock. It's not clear how to best handle these; follow your instinct ;) One idea is to make Skarmory a little bulkier on the physical side (you don't really have to be able to survive that crit Walrein Surf/IceBeam anyway).

Come to think of it, these problems are shared with the boss of all teams, IRIDESCENCE. While IRIDESCENCE is even sturdier against the problem teams and therefore better, this team sets up way faster and is less boring to use.

Thanks for reading! Don't be afraid to use this :)

 

[Kommo-o]

CHOCOLATE D-I-S-C-O​

It's been a while since I attempted the Battle Tower again but I wanted to introduce everyone a new team that I have been playing recently on the Discord that I really felt in love with. I'm happy with how this team worked and the innovations I made in order to grind on wins. The results so far are not living up to its potential but I genuinely believe this team can hit 1000 wins with some small luck on its favor. Before you dig into this post, I wanted to let you know that Quick Claw Regirock is the main sweeper of this team. How is it working? Start scrolling down and find out!

Warning: Jojo references

Team Building

• 
  The original idea was to use Registeel for obvious reasons. Not only it provided perfect synergy with Zapdos and Grumpig, but it also resisted each other's weaknesses and it could even allow PP stalling. However, as someone who has extensively knew how to use Registeel, I knew this was not going to work in practice for various reasons: Registeel's weak base Attack doesn't allows it to sweep as the single sweeper on this team and when you consider I had to pair it with Gyarados on DDW, that pretty much shows why. Registeel can't beat Pressure users that resist its main STAB like Raikou and Entei who often use Rest or have a way to boost their stats (Calm Mind + Double Team). It also struggles against Water types who resist its STAB and have ways to recover the lost health (Ludicolo).
• 
  The next idea was Snorlax but this was short-lived for various reasons. Normal STAB sucks and depending on the coverage move you choose, you will inevitably get walled by something which completely beats the purpose of using a mono-sweeper on a Trick team.
• 
  At first, I didn't really consider Regirock as a serious option but when I started to look into the list of Curse users, I felt that Regirock was worth a try. STAB Rock is really potent, it has no immunities and Regirock learns Earthquake which means that it gets the only coverage move it will ever need. Regirock also resists Normal which shouldn't make an issue setting up against Choice Banded Normal types like Granbull or Usaring if needed.

Peppa (Grumpig) (F) @ Choice Band
IVs: 31-4-31-31-31-31
EVs: 214 HP / 204 Def / 92 Spe
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Torment
- Reflect
- Icy Wind


This is pretty much Actaeon's Grumpig set. I haven't experimented a lot with Alakazam and Linoone, but hands down, this is the best Trick user in G3 and if you think otherwise, then your opinion is invalid. While Grumpig doesn't has Alakazam's or Linoone's speed, it makes it up with bulk and a pseudo-resistance to Ice, thanks to Thick Fat, which is really amazing. Trick is pretty much standard stuff. You lock the opponent into a single move and then you focus on having your next Pokemon set up as much as you can until it eventually struggles and pretty much set up the win. Torment exists mostly for special attackers preventing the AI from using the same move twice in a row. It also makes set-up easier for Zapdos as you can Protect while they use their attack and set up Double Team on the turns the opponent has to Struggle. Reflect is my biggest innovation on Actaeon's set. Unlike submenceisop and Actaeon I wasn't running Skill Swap and my team lacked an Intimidate user or Mud Slap which would've forced me to run this move. Since Zapdos raises its own evasion and I am not using de-buffing moves, I felt that Reflect suits the bill in here. With Reflect up, Zapdos takes a pittance from Metagross' Shadow Ball or Meteor Mash which allows it to comfortably set up on it. It also allows Grumpig to survive Explosion from the likes of Golem or Steelix if they decide to explode on turn 1 which allows Grumpig to survive and set up for later. Reflect also has the advantage of weakening Struggles from strong physical attackers like Ursaring or Snorlax. The benefits the team gains from Reflect has convinced me that if you're not running Skill Swap, this is the best move you can get as filler. The last move is Icy Wind and with Grumpig's speed investment, it allows Grumpig to outspeed neutral 252 Spe Jolteon and Crobat after a speed drop.

The EVs are pretty simple and I didn't make changes from what Actaeon typically runs: 92 Speed EVs with a Timid nature outspeeds all Metagross sets and Salamence 4 as well. The 214HP EVs and 204 Def EVs allows Grumpig to survive Rhydon's Megahorn and Banded Metagross' Shadow Ball, meaning that Grumpig can pretty much set a Reflect or Torment depending on the situation.

Stormbreak (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
IVs: 31-10-30-31-31-31
EVs: 220 HP / 2 Atk / 60 Def / 228 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Double Team

This is submenceisop's Zapdos and as a Baton Passer you won't be able to find a better candidate than Zapdos. It's good defensive typing, excellent stats and speed allows it to perform this role extremely well. Normally, once Grumpig Tricks an opponent and cripples it with Torment, Zapdos switches in to start the set-up that will inevitably allow Regirock to boost its stats and sweep. Protect and Substitute are bread and butter as Zapdos can protect on the attacks that would normally break its Substitute while it sets up Double Team on Struggle. Thanks to Pressure, this becomes a deadly combination that allows Zapdos to stall the opponent's PPs until it burns it out. It also allows Zapdos to stall out from moves that would otherwise put him in danger until the opponent. Double Team is an important move as it allows Zapdos to increase its evasion and pass them down to Regirock with Baton Pass. On most cases, once you get into +6 evasion and under a Substitute, Regirock becomes the recipient which allows it to continue the set-up and prepare it for the sweep.

Just like Grumpig, I didn't deviate from submenceisop's Zapdos set either: 228 Speed EVs allows Zapdos to outspeed Espeon by one point meaning that it can set up on it before it breaks its Substitute. 220 HP and 60 Defense are placed for bulk. With Reflect up, Metagross Choice Banded Shadow Ball / Meteor Mash fails to break its Substitute.

CHOCODISCO (Regirock) @ Quick Claw
IVs: 30-31-30-19-30-30
EVs: 242 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]


The main star of this team and the main sweeper. Once Zapdos is fully set-up, most of the time, the opponent will have its PP dried up and with the Choice Band locked, it will only be able to use Struggle. With evasion and a sub, Regirock now has all the turns it needs to set up Curse to bolster its Attack and Defense all the way to +6 in order to start a sweep. Hidden Power Rock was chosen as the main STAB due to Rock Slide's shaky accuracy. While that extra 5 base power allows Regirock to OHKO Flygon at +6, it does not compensates the 90% accuracy which can result in inconvenient misses. Earthquake allows Regirock to crush Steelix, Metagross and Rhydon into smithereens while hitting anything that resist its Rock STAB. While Flygon and Breloom are the only two Pokemon that resist both HP Rock and Earthquake, once Regirock is fully set-up, these two can't do anything to stop its sweep due to Regirock's defense boosts tanking their super-effective STABs while being unable to break its Sub at +6 if it didn't took lots of damage before. I had a lot to think when it came to the last move and while it would've been weird to use Substitute without recovery, this allows Regirock to set up again. With Substitute, Regirock protects itself from status moves that could cripple it, OHKO moves that ignore the evasion boosts it built up and attacks that could OHKO it. I wish I could fit Rest somewhere since I've been on situations where Regirock could've really used the HP recovery, but Regirock really needs both of its attacks and without Sub, Regirock would be relying completely on just the Substitute Zapdos passes on, which can be easily broken if the opponent's Struggle is powerful enough. What really makes me feel proud about this Regirock set is how effective Quick Claw has been as the item of choice: It seems like a meme choice, but it does so extremely well. With Substitute, Lum Berry is extremely situational and while Hard Rock is tempting, once I tested Quick Claw, I haven't looked back. With Quick Claw, Regirock can occasionally outspeed the opponent and KO the opponent which pretty much allows it to keep its Sub intact against a faster opponent while continuing its sweep. Sometimes, getting a priority Curse is also nice when setting up since it reduces the opponent's damage.

Regirock needed max Attack in order to achieve OHKOs on Skarmory at +6, so I had to RNG one through Method 4 on Pokemon Box. Anyways, 242 HP with the IV combination allows Regirock to hit 185 HP and create an extra sub thanks to the uneven numbers. The rest is dumped into Special Defense to bump its defenses a little bit. With Regirock's Defense already being immense, I didn't found any notable calculations that would benefit from having extra Def EVs.

Threatlist

• Quick Claw users can be dangerous, but the worse ones are the users who run Explosion. While Grumpig might be able to Trick them, if they go down with Grumpig, the team loses its main way to set up. I normally use Reflect against them just to survive the T1 Explosion shenanigan.
• If it gets locked into Curse, it becomes annoying because a +6 Struggle with a Choice Band hits very hard. You want to Torment in here so that Zapdos can freely set up the evasion boosts while Protecting on Struggle.
• Psych Up is pretty annoying and it normally forces the team to set up all over again because it makes me obligated to not build up on the evasion boosts. Fortunately, most Psych Up users are easily stalled up by Zapdos and once it burns their PP, it can set up again. It's a very long process though.
• Normal types with strong attacks are dangerous as it pretty much means Grumpig won't have a 2nd turn to live. Reflect is necessary but it usually means Zapdos will only have a few turns to build up on evasion boosts. Mega Kick Granbull / Ursaring are easily stalled out but Double Edge Ursaring is scary...
• While not as dangerous as Claydol or Steelix, Shiftry can still mess up the team. However, once Grumpig sets up Reflect, Zapdos bosses this motherfucker even if it decides to Explode.
• Sticky Hold prevents Trick, which means that Grumpig cannot lock it into a move. Add Sludge Bomb's 30% chance of poisoning and having access to QC and Explosion, makes Muk the biggest threat to this team. I have no choice but to take him 1-v-1 with Regirock and Earthquake it.
• Avoid tricking against these Pokemon and simply set up against them

Pretty sure they are out there more threats but will update this section as I find them

Exportable

http://spo.ink/chocolate

Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I haven't been able to record a video of how this team works and so far I have only limited myself on streaming it through the Discord. Special thanks to Actaeon and submenceisop for creating the Grumpig and Zapdos sets. Thanks to both of you, Regirock has finally claimed a place on Gen 3 Frontier!

 

[Addri Trainer]

I can’t believe I didnt posted since I created this user back in 2014 xD

Well, weeks ago I played with a team based on Wobbuffet, mainly, to obtain the Gold Symbols in Battle Dome and Battle Tower with the least difficulty possibly. Watching all the teams in this thread, maybe this is not the best option, but I didn’t wanted to spend several turns to get the streaks. Said that, I have been able to get a streak of 17 tournaments in open level in the Battle Dome. I post here to see if someone can help me to make a better team, and, if it's possibly, to appear in the ladder, hehe.

No further delay, the team is basically this:

- Wobbuffet
- An Special Attacker
- A Physical Attacker

1. Wobbuffet: Essentially, the lead of the team. All the team is based on Wobbuffet. Depending on the Pokémon Wobbuffet is facing, I can choose between these options:
- Trap him with Encore.
- Return the attack with Counter or Mirror Coat.

After Wobbuffet encored the Pokémon, I change depending on the type of the Pokémon, his stats and moveset. The Pokémon I have used are the following:

/

or

(read below)

Wobbuffet
Nature: Bold
156 HP/ 166 Def/ 188 Sp Def
Encore
Counter
Safeguard
Mirror Coat

Latias (or Latios):
Nature: Modest
165 HP/ 13 Def/ 252 Att Sp/ 80 Spe
Calm Mind
Psychic
Dragon Claw
T-Bolt

Salamence:
Nature: Adamant
252 HP/ 252 Att/ 6 Spe
Dragon Dance
Aerial Ace
Earthquake
Brick break.

And yes, I have also thought that the two attackers being weak to Ice and Dragon, can be a problem.

As Physical Attacker, I've opted for Tyranitar sometimes:
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Att/ 6 Spe
Dragon Dance
Aerial Ace
Earthquake
Rock Slide

The point is, Tyranitar doesn't give me the same confidence with Rock Slide, and Aerial Ace doesn't gain STAB. Preferably, I wanted two attackers with the possibility of boosting their attack and speed, so I set Dragon Dance earlier than Sword Dance or similar. Another preference was Aerial Ace to attack Pokémon that use Double Team.

As for the objects, Leftovers for Wobbuffet for the large amount of HP he has, to counter the attacks. Lum Berry for Lati@s and ... the truth is that the object for the physical attacker I have had many doubts. I opted for Focus Slash to try and hold the 1HKO Moves, or Cheri Berry for paralysis.

Threats: A lot. Despite the Pokémon with effective types, I had these problems:

1. Rock-type Pokémon: Aerodactyl, Tyranitar, Regirock, Steelix, Armaldo… I remember several Rock Slides that made Wobbuffet recoil and you can get into a lot of trouble if you can't counter the blows.
2. Pokémon with 1HKO moves.
3. The paralysis or confusion at Wobbuffet. Wobbuffet must be in full condition to be able to hit back.
4. If I encore a Pokémon with a boosting-move as Calm Mind or Curse.

And I'm sure many more, but I don't feel like thinking anymore seeing the hours that are in Spain xD

About proves, I have recorded the battles against Tucker for the gold and the 15-streak battle. But are recorded in .MOV because I recorded them with a Canon, so I can’t put it here but maybe I will convert them in .AVI to upload to YouTube. I can upload photos of the streak and the tournament I loss.

Thoughts?

 

[submenceisop]

People on discord know how I've been disappointed with Salamence. It's incredibly hard to set up... with a million haxy water types in this generation, but it's nearly un wallable when fully set up. I practically gave up on it completely... but Actaeon got me to use baton pass Zapdos with it and it's how well it works. Baton passing evasion to sweepers haven't really been explored and it's certainly the best niche Zapdos has.

The team structure is basically thief crippler lead, zapdos and (insert sweeper here). The thief user must have: reliable speed control, thief/trick and a decent speed tier. At the very least, the thief use has to be naturally faster than Haxrein and friends (base 65). Thief leads are essential to ensure that Zapdos can properly do it's job.

Thief leads I've tried include Stantler, Politoed, Grumpig and Hypno. Each one has it's own distinct niche. Stantler has intimidate, Politoed has perish song and damp to prevent explosion leads, Grumpig has torment, reflect and a solid base 80 speed tier. Hypno has thunder wave, no special weaknesses and good overall bulk.

I actually prefer Hypno here as my last losses have been to special threats like Raikou, Starmie and Latios. This Hypno is ev'ed to live a non crit Rhydon's Megahorn, with the rest in special defence. T-wave for speed control, Flash as a filler (unfortunately the accuracy is a let down). Reflect is also something that's possible here as well... but Grumpig is more viable with it's higher speed.

View attachment 354918

Damage Calculations.
252+ Atk Rhydon Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 180 Def Hypno: 161-190 (83.8 - 98.9%)
252+ SpA Starmie Surf vs. 252 HP / 76+ SpD Hypno: 56-67 (29.1 - 34.8%)
252+ SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 76+ SpD Hypno: 63-75 (32.8 - 39%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Absol Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 180 Def Hypno: 161-190 (83.8 - 98.9%)

View attachment 354914

This Zapdos set is pretty straightforward. Leftovers number in HP, enough speed to out speed Espeon and the rest in physical defence. The bulk can be played around with for Zapdos IF there are relevant damage calculations. From my experience though, I think it's safer to have the speed just in case Hypno can't t-wave.

Zapdos stalls most things really comfortably with thunder-wave and flash support. Although the flash support is inaccurate, it is usually able to stall out PP safely eventually. Pokemon with lots of PP like Starmie, Latios, Gengar remain threats... but hypno basically guarantees that they will be thunder-waved at the very least.


View attachment 354919

Salamence is my sweeper. I chose the 201 attack stat here, as I found this sufficient. Curse Skarm is still annoying, but you should still have Zapdos to outstall the fly.
I actually had a lot of fun with SHARP Beak Mence... as this even guarantees the 1ko on AI Zapdos and ensures you never lose to Curse Skarmory. Unfortunately, you can get haxxed with status in situations where sh*t goes wrong. In one variation... Raikou managed to get through Zapdos and thunder waved Salamence = GG.

The cool thing about the evasion is that it gives Salamence multiple chances to win. The evasion helps you safely set up and even get another chance to ko things like focus band Blastoise and bright powder Walrein. This salamence also sets up on struggles instead of most moves.

*Edit: Lost @ 197 wins to Lum Medicham, Mr Mime and QC Skarmory. Lum Medicham always breaks Zapdos's sub. Couldn't pressure stall.

Team: Incredibly OP in most situations. Struggles a bit against explosion leads like regirock, metagross, QC turn 1 ohko users. Strong physical attackers critting hypno. Curse skarmory is annoying to deal with.

Time to live up to my username and prove Salamence is truly OP.

https://pokepast.es/3494e609d4c61949

Well, I made adjustments to the team. Medicham 4 was giving me a lot of problems, so I changed the Hypno spread to reach the blessed 106 speed tier with a TIMID nature. This out speeds most QC users, while retaining the physical bulk. Unfortunately, this does make Raikou and Starmie a bit shakier, but the additional speed allowing you to out speed up to 0 speed Metagross has been very appreciated.



I didn't modify Zapdos's set. Unfortunately, Zapdos can tank some shadow balls with the physical defense investment. I considered more special defense investment for non stabbed thunder punch and crunch, but it wasn't worth the trade off.

252+ Atk Nidoking Shadow Ball vs. 220 HP / 60 Def Zapdos: 43-51 (22.2 - 26.4%)



Salamence was adjusted to have 228 attack evs instead of 220. This allows Salamence to OHKO Zapdos @ +6, 50% of the time rather than 44%. Sharp Beak was also used, as Lum wasn't activating enough to be useful. Sharp Beak allows you to guaranteed OHKO Zapdos and guaranteed 2ko Curse Skarmory.

+6 228+ Atk Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 152-179 (92.1 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+6 228+ Atk Sharp Beak Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 166-196 (100.6 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

How to use this team.

Hypno uses T-wave against all of these threats : Raikou/ Aero/Jolteon/Starmie/ Sceptile/ Crobat.
Thief if you suspect QC.
Spam flash until you faint.

With the accuracy debuff, Zapdos can safely double team and stall out the AI's PP. Salamence boosts up to +6 with +6 evasion.

Threats/ Issues.
Baton pass into Jolteon/Raikou Starmie (Espeon and Medicham sets are dangerous)
Explosion into Gengar/Starmie.
Hypno getting crit by Lum berry Starmie or Raikou
Curse Snorlax. Very difficult to deal with even after stealing the QC, as +6 struggle can really make things difficult for Salamence to set up.

Lost @ 240 wins. Weezing Exploded into Hypno. Ice punch Gengar beats both Zapdos and Salamence.
Still proud of creating the best Salamence team to date. The evasion really helps Salamence not get haxed by bright powder (most of the time)

https://pokepast.es/a9c5e9ecae4cd195

 

[Actaeon]

I built a new team for Open Level, utilizing a strategy I always thought of as being way too gimmicky. It turns out that after fabricating some funky, one-time-use novelty EV-spreads and having the right team members, the strategy is way more flexible than I expected. The Open Level team I will be sharing today achieved a 140 win streak today! I will do my best to explain not only the team, but also the lengthy thought process that informally proves this is the only way to go.

I've always wanted to build around Tyranitar, but in particular around Sand Veil in Open Level. The reasoning for "having" to use Tyranitar in Open Level is as follows: if an optimized Level 50 team, like IRIDESCENCE, is used in Open Level it has trouble functioning because of Sand Stream and the haxy Tyranitar + Dragonite sets the Frontier offers. If you don't use Tyranitar yourself in Open Level, then it will by definition be a Level 50 team that is worse; it's the only way to build a team without being a worse version of another Level 50 team, since Dragonite is still outclassed by Salamence even though it has some extra special bulk to survive non-STAB Ice Beams. Luckily, Tyranitar offers unique sweeping and lead sets that are not available in Level 50; we all know how devastating the HP[Rock]/Earthquake/Dragon Dance/Substitute set can be once it properly sets up, and Focus Bands can never activate twice on Pokemon like Blastoise. Moreover, if Tyranitar gets to +4 it's usually game over already, unless you encounter Flygon or Claydol. Tyranitar's bulk, especially on the physical side, makes it able to setup against unboosted Struggles without even carrying Leftovers. But the Dragon Dance sweeper is not where we are going with this; I'll leave it to submenceisop to post about the Skarmory + Raikou + DDTar setup we've been theorymonning about.

Since the Pressure stallers that have useful crippling moves (i.e. not Aerodactyl) are all susceptible to Sandstorm, this is not really an option without a weather-changing move; otherwise they become fodder after your own Tyranitar came out, or get into trouble against opposing Tyranitar earlier. If we want actual synergy, we need to be somewhat capable of dealing with the Sandstorm ourselves. Since Rock/Steel/Ground has bad Special Defense in general, it's hard to accomplish actual stalling, and while Blissey can deal with the damage in general (and Cradily might survive some turns if it doesn't get critically hit), it adds another Fighting-type weakness and it's nearly impossible to find a decent lead to back up this "backup". Also, stalling is dangerous because the opponent is not guaranteed to last through Sandstorm, making it so that losing your setup fodder becomes inevitable sometimes.

The idea of using Sand Veil was attractive to me, but:

• Cacturne is too slow, not bulky enough, can't LeechSeed-sweep without risking a move on the Salac Berry, and many more problems;
• Sandslash has nice Attack and a powerful STAB Earthquake, but can only sweep and needs Salac Berry too. Also, it can basically only setup on Struggles which is not easy to guarantee on a Sand team. It can also never KO the entire Frontier and only gets one shot; provides no defensive synergy whatsoever.

Gligar is the only viable Sand Veil user because it has an acceptable Speed tier and can be used as either a sweeper or an Accuracy-reducing staller like on the Mono Flying team (where it provides an essential Electric immunity). Its typing is unique and while its BST it quite poor, it still provides the flexibility of switching into Earthquakes, Electric-moves and if needed, Fighting-types due to its decent Defense, which is important with Tyranitar on the team. If you want to make use of Gligar's Sand Veil though, then Tyranitar has to lead on most kind of teams, otherwise you can never rely on Gligar being effective without first switching into Tyranitar; this is not something you can afford in some scenarios.

This is how I made a team setting up a sweeper using Tyranitar lead + Gligar glue (Protect/Sub/Sand-Attack/Dig), setting up Sandslash as the sweeper. But Tyranitar is not a good crippling lead, since it's only useful crippling move is Thunder Wave (and the sub-par Mud-Slap). It doesn't even learn Thief to do something about Quick Claw, and doesn't have the typing to use Roar effectively against the problem Quick Clawers. Too much weight falls on Gligar's shoulders, and it doesn't have the stats to consistently cripple Quick Claw Fighting or Water-types for example.

Before last week, I always thought any Gligar set would need Substitute and Protect, which means it can't really sweep with Swords Dance because it would only have access to one Attack. Since Earthquake leaves too many immune Pokemon, this would have to be Aerial Ace or HP[Flying] and that's walled by too much. So I left this idea behind.

But then I thought "what the hell", if we're relying on Sand Veil anyway, we might as well accept less crippling and just spam Substitute like in the competitive scene (where this kind of Gligar was banned!). Against a paralyzed opponent that has one or more accuracy reductions, this is going to be heavily in my favor and if I only get to +2 or +4 behind a Substitute, I'm pretty much satisfied if Tyranitar is still alive. Optimizing this strategy lead to the team I'm presenting.[/SPOILER]

The Team

J.W.HARDIN (Tyranitar) (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 124 Def / 136 SpA / 248 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Crunch
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

FONDA LINA (Vaporeon) (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Sand-Attack
- Wish
- Protect

GOLDDIGGER (Gligar) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake

Set explanations

Tyranitar, named after one of the most famous gunslingers of the true desert-reminiscing West, John Wesley Hardin, is a crazy one-trick-pony lead sometimes. Other times it's a valuable last-poke-standing, preventing Gligar from getting stalled, and yet other times it does so much damage to a team that the rest of my team can cleanup using Sandstorm damage without even setting up Gligar. The reason it can do all these things its because of its amazing BST, which lets it damage problematic Pokemon just enough so they fall to chip damage from Sandstorm guaranteed, and tank stuff like Metagross' Meteor Mash / Rhydon Earthquake and Starmie's Surf/Hydro Pump at the same time. This explains the EVs. Note that this exact stat result is also obtainable by running a Bold Nature with different EVs.
Since Tyranitar lives so many hits in Salac range, this item is used to outspeed Starmie after a Surf, so Tyranitar can either deliver the finishing second Crunch if needed and cripple the next Pokemon. Nailing the 330 tier after Salac is amazing. The Salac strat also works against Metagross. If Quick Claw doesn't activate the second turn, you kill it with fire.
Ice Beam is for Dragons that might boost, and also Flygon whose Earthquake is a tad too much for Vaporeon to switch into in Sand.
Tyranitar is a good Pokemon to keep alive when possible, for example to stallbreak Curse Skarmory if Gligar ends up having to fight that.

Vaporeon's name origin is the song "Fonda Lina" by J. J. Cale. It's about a lady of pleasure that "has a void to fill" and tries to attract men by "hanging over her bosoms". I don't really know why this Vaporeon makes me think of her. Maybe it has to do with the line "She's not impatient, just excited, Expectations, very high". That's how I feel about this set.
Vaporeon tanks a crit Cross Chop and still lives to Sand Attack in Sand (this explains the simple EV spread). It switches in on many Water-types and just spams Sand-Attack so Gligar can setup. I think it's the only viable Pokemon to use here because of Water Absorb, Wish, a 100% accuracy-lowering move and making the AI predictable if they have a Water move + Thunderbolt, for example. Vaporeon really helps against bulkier, powerful Sandstorm-resisters because it can always choose to just kill them if crippling isn't realistic (e.g. Regirock). Sacking Vaporeon is a common scenario. Note that Wish can give Gligar an extra Substitute if timed right and if this is expected to be better than an extra Sand-Attack. Vaporeon is not so easy to use; sometimes you have to accept that stalling won't work anymore because they're going to die to Sandstorm. In that case, you keep the health high with Wish. In other cases, you just spam and faint as soon as possible while crippling. Because of Sand Veil, it doesn't matter that much if you use 4, 5 or 6 of them anyway. Note that being weak to Sandstorm is actually a necessity!

Gligar is a digger, and on this team it doesn't fish but 'dig' for misses. This is going to result into the Gold symbol at least, hopefully, hence Golddigger seemed appropriate. Both Gligar and Vaporeon are Female because I think the memes are more important than the team's success. Not like it's going to matter much anyway. Aerial Ace is chosen over Hidden Power [Flying] because the latter doesn't achieve many more KOs and I don't want to (A) miss against Trace Gardevoir, (B) get outstalled by Double-Teaming Pressure users.
Gligar's EVs are simple again: the HP gives it an extra Substitute, full Attack because you won't always boost to full anyway and just want to hit as hard as possible. It doesn't KO everything, but Substitute stalling in Sand "completes" some KOs and it has a great matchups against most Sand-immune Pokemon anyway due to its typing and Sand Veil. It outspeeds Houndoom. You can run full Speed if you want, but I found that this small bulk investment gives Gligar more chance to tank weaker Aerial Aces and non-STAB Rock Slides, for example, with its Substitute. Even Extremespeed sometimes! Finally, it allows Gligar to switch into lead Heracross a little safer.

Here is a sample streak:

If anyone's interested, I can make a more detailed description of problems and their handling, but the best way is to find out for yourself! To be honest, I'm still figuring out a lot myself. But with this flexibility, you can squeeze out a lot of wins in a very exciting and engaging way.

 

[Pokechad94]

There's no need for you to being rude with someone who was offering you legitimate good advice to overcome the hurdles you had been going through in Factory. As someone who hates everything about Factory, I admit that I actually took a good laugh at reading your shitpost. I'm all in for banter but I guess that PokeChad needs to spend his time trolling on the internet with random strangers rather than going out to the gym, read a book or get a girlfriend. I guess therapy wasn't enough for you.

I guess you'll join him on my block list. Have a nice day :)

 

[Kommo-o]

F*CK FACTORY​

So after a while, as someone who despises everything about Factory, here I am. Playing Factory. Yes, that one place I swore I would never go back to. I decided to play Open Level, mostly, to see how far I could get assuming I don't get haxxed on the process. I should mention something: My intention was not to play for any particular record but mostly, just for fun. Despite this, after a few days playing Factory, I got a 43 win record. Nothing to be proud of but still decent to write a post out of it. Still, fuck Factory.

Round 1:
Swaps:

Round 1

My initial draft in here was pretty solid. I had Flygon 1 with a decent Attack stat, Flareon 1 which was decent and Ludicolo 1. I pretty much had a solid party from start and it did pretty well on carrying me over. I lead with Flygon since STAB Earthquake is really valuable and Ludicolo 1 having Thunder Punch for the opposing Water types was key on me choosing it. Flareon was the weakest link on this team but it did okay, at least, until I had the opportunity to upgrade on it and replacing it with Arcanine 1. Throughout the round, I never found myself on the need of swapping again.

Round 2:
Swaps:

Round 2

This round was the one in which I made the most swaps in here becuse my initial draft was mediocre at best with Granbull 2 (meme material) and Dugtrio 2 being part of it. Medicham 2 was the only decent Pokemon on this round because of Salac + Reversal, which pretty much did the dirty work on this round. I had no qualms on swapping out Granbull for Milotic and continue throughout the round. Later I had to bring Manectric in for a Water specialist, which worked well. After that, I got a Metagross 2 which was really awesome and replaced Dugtrio with. Later, Snorlax came later and I ended up replacing Medicham with. My final team ended up pretty much being formed by Milotic 2 / Metagross 2 / Snorlax 2 and did pretty well throughout the round. Shout-out to Metagross 2 on copying Umbreon's 2 evasion boots and wrecking it with a crit Meteor Mash after a Swagger.

Round 3:
Swaps:

Round 3

The only goodstuff from this round was Starmie 3 and Rhydon 3, which was okay for the intial draft. Apart from Jolteon 3 which was meme material, my other options were average at best (I remember having Glalie 3 and Dewgong 3 as options). I decided to take Jolteon because it could paralyze foes at best and at least it could even Baton Pass Agility boosts to Rhydon, which funnily enough, it did worked out. Later, Jolteon got replaced by Miltank, but it didn't lasted long when Forretress 3 showed up. Special attacking Forretress might sound like a joke for you but Actaeon made a set out of it and I adapted it to Tower usage, so I was familiarized with it and chose it simply due to team synergy. I remember having to explode into Cradily 3 because Forry couldn't touch it outside that, but at least it managed to paralyze it with Zap Cannon.

Vs Factory Head Noland:

vs

It's safe to say that Rhydon was going to do some dirty work in here and it did extremely well on this fight. Rhydon got a QC kill vs Ampharos with Earthquake and while it had to tank Electabuzz's Ice Punch, it was pretty much dead at the end of the turn with another Earthquake. I attempted the AI strategy of landing the infamous QC OHKO Drill but it didn't worked and Rhydon had to go down against the Swampert. Forry came out and Giga Drain it to death despite Surf being unable to deal more than 50% of damage.

Round 4:
Swaps:

Round 4

While my memory is still fresh on this round, I have to say this was a swap intensive round because I did a shit ton here. Miltank 4 did an MVP performance vs an Exploud and set it up all the way to +5 Curse and +6 evasion to clean up a team. I got Dusclops in and replaced Claydol since I woke up feeling dangerous today. Then, Milotic 4 came up and pretty much became a good core with Sceptile. Claydol 4 came back to my draft again and since I had Milotic now, it was only natural to pick him it. Scpetile / Milotic / Claydol made for a decent core, however, this came close to a loss on the 6th battle where I completely regret not swapping out Milotic 4 for the Lanturn 4: Walrein 4 managed to survive Sceptile's Leaf Blade and OHKO back with Ice Beam. Worst part, Claydol didn't even finished off and had to tank two Ice Beams. Fortunately, Slaking 4 came next and decided to waste his turn Yawning while Claydol exploded on its ass. This pretty much left Milotic alone vs Umbeon 4: the worst Umbreon set in G3. I got away with Surf landing on every attempt in Umbreon. Even though it managed to get a +2 evasion and poisoned Milotic, I got away with it. I feel swapping for Lanturn would've made dealing with Walrein more easily, although you never know how that would've played out with that Umbreon. On the last battle, I just decided to swap Claydol out for Salamence (for no reason at all) only for Sceptile to finish off the Water type specialist on the last round.

Round 5:
Swaps:

Round 5

This was probably one of the best drafts I ever got in a draft selection at Factory. While Salamence 5 might pretty much be Salamence 4's fatter cousin, it still has Dragon Dance, Earthquake and Rock Slide. I got Snorlax 2 again and the best part is that while Ludicolo was okay on the first battle, I got the chance to immediately swap it for a Swampert 4. This was pretty much the only swap I ever did on this round and the only one the team needed. Can you actually fucking imagine Factory gave me a team of Salamence / Snorlax / Swampert on a single round? I can't either and I haven't looked back ever since. Probably one of the worthy moments on this round was going to a set-up war against Latios 7 with Curse against Dragon Dance, only for Snorlax to come out on top and sweep the opponent's team of legends. Also fuck the Zapdos 2 who got a crit against Swampert. Too bad it became food for Salamence. I have to say, I got a jumpscare on the 4th battle when a Youngster came up with Rhydon and Lapras on the same team. Fortunately, Rhydon didn't picked Horn Drill and got pooped by Salamence's Earthquake after taking damage from Lax before. Also, the Lapras was Lapras 5 and it got owned by Salamence with a boosted Rock Slide that forced a flinch only for the last mon to be a dead Mr. Mime. Shout-out to Jeremy leading with a Jolteon set on the last battle who only Baton Passed to Marowak and Hariyama which both got owned by Swampert thanks to them switching into Earthquake (and Swampert being faster).

Round 6:
Swaps:

Round 6

Round 5 was blessed but round 6 was not a good draft. It wasn't terrible simply because of the Latios 5 which made things a bit better. It has Calm Mind and Thunder Wave which complements Rhydon (?). Either way, Miltank did dirty the first opponent but I lost my cow to a Hypno of all things. After setting up to +3, Latios got past it and pretty much killed a Snorlax on a critical hit, which I did not hesitate to replace Miltank with. However, the 3rd battle was a hugely complicated affair due to Latias 6. Rhydon had no business doing something here but it had the blessing of taking out an Articuno 3 and Tentacruel with QC activating those kills. However, Latias gave the team a huge load of shit. It finished off Rhydon. After that, Attract pretty much crippled Snorlax and it barely moved other than landing two Shadow Balls which were not enough to kill a higher IV'd Latias. This pretty much left my Latios against it, which moved first and Attracted but fortunately, Latios landed the finishing blow. So much for Attract hax. I swapped out Latios for Latias and I got the better end of the deal since the Latias had higher IVs.

Streak got the closest to lose in here: Kindler Alfredo sends Scizor out and it woke up feeling dangerous. I had to swap into Rhydon and after revealing Counter, it turned out to be Scizor 1. However, since I knew that none of my team members could come close to OHKOing, I attempted to do the Uber thing the AI does when it comes out for blood to end up your streak. I still keep forgetting this only works for them when they're doing it and not me. Rhydon goes down after missing 3 Horn Drills and then Snorlax comes out. I have no choice in here but to Swagger Scizor knowing that I'm playing with fire and this was my best chance to win anyways. Scizor gets confused and hits itself on the first turn, which is really amazing. However, the Scizor is at +2 and next turn it lands a Metal Claw which does a lot of damage as I Psych Up. However, Snorlax brings it to the red after landing the +2 Mega Kick. Unfortunately, Snorlax goes down and Scizor doesn't gets confused again. This pretty much leaves Latias against a weakened Scizor and 2 healthy Pokemon. After killing Scizor, Salamence comes next dealing a good amount of damage with Dragon Claw. This not only reveals it is Salamence 7/8 since they are faster than Latias 6, but it left a weakened Latias against a Flareon as the last mon. If it picked Shadow Ball, it was all over. I've come to think myself I got a flower growing from my ass because this Flareon turned out to be Flareon 1 but Attract and Thunder Wave saved the streak here. Didn't moved at all and Latias managed to finish it off with 3 Dragon Claws. This battle made it worthwhile to swap the Scizor 1 in.

Vs Factory Head Noland

vs

Rather than explaining what happened, it's better if you saw this haxfest by yourselves. I won, but at what cost lol.

If you were able to bear with me on this mega huse wall of text, you'll see that I probably deserved to lose this round but I had so much luck on my favor it was almost ridiculous and unbelievable that I won this round, including the boss fight vs Noland.

Round 7:
Swaps:

Round 7

So I got a pretty crap draft in here. No synergy, no balance, just vibes. In here, after wiping the floor with the Ground specialist on the first battle, didn't had anything more to swap from. But my team ended up losing at the 43rd battle against a Kindler. Slaking lead against Gengar and I swapped into Regice hoping that it was one of the special sets. Turns out it was Slaking 3 and it got choice locked into Shadow Ball. Regice paralyzes Slaking and I proceed to build up on the evasion boosts. However, Slaking managed to get a critical hit, which put Regice on the red. Even though I had to start to go on the offensive and attempted to chuck its health down with Ice Beam, it eventually hit Regice again and I ended up losing him. Next was Starmie who 2HKO'd it with Psychic, however, the next Pokemon was Zapdos. I had Ice Beam but there was nothing I could do knowing well that Zapdos could tank it. Zapdos then proceeds to toast Starmie with a Thunderbolt. All I had was Gengar and it was us against the world. At least we had family, or so I hoped. Gengar revenge kills Zapdos with Ice Punch and the last mon is a fucking Regirock. Gengar 8 has no SE moves on Regirock, so unless I got a miracle paralysis or some hax, it was over. Well, all I can say is that at least Gengar got to Destiny Bond and both of our Pokemon got KO'd which inevitable ended the streak in here.

There was nothing I could do, but I probably should've swapped in the Nidoking from the previous round since Nidoking 4 could've helped against the Zapdos or the Regirock. I was afraid that the overlap with Psychic weakness would make me too vulnerable. Oh well, but this pretty much happens when you get an extremely shitty draft like I did here.

Loss at battle #44

 

[submenceisop]

As you can tell, I've tried Salamence with multiple different set ups. This time, I am using MEMENTO Gardevoir + Zapdos + Salamence. Shout out to all who have been watching me on stream. Especially Actaeon for his help optimizing the spread. I reached 273 wins... which makes it officially the best Gen 3 Salamence team!

Gardevoir Set Explanation.

Gardevoir (M)
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thief
- Thunder Wave
- Memento
- Icy-wind

1. Male for Attract Espeon. Also opposite Gender as Salamence
2. 132 speed. Outspeeds Latios & Latias (reaches 132 speed)
3. Lives a crit T-bolt from Raikou, avoids a 3ko on Starmie
4. Live Ursaring's Double edge
5. Does NOT avoid a Rhydon's Megahorn,

252+ Atk Rhydon Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Gardevoir: 185-218 (105.7 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

255+ SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir on a critical hit: 147-174 (84 - 99.4%)- Guaranteed 2ko

252+ SpA Starmie Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 67-79 (38.2 - 45.1%)

252+ Atk Ursaring Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Gardevoir: 138-163 (78.8 - 93.1%)

170 Atk Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Gardevoir: 83-98 (47.4 - 56%)

Zapdos Set Explanation

For general purposes, Zapdos should run the 220 HP/ 62 Def/ 228 speed. This seems to be the most useful as a catch all situation.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
IVs: 10 Atk / 30 Def
EVs: 220 HP / 34 Def / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Double Team

This Zapdos however, is ev’ed with memento in mind.

1. 193 HP for a leftovers number
2. 228 speed to out speed Espeon and Gengar
3. Tanks Modest Latios Dragon Claw after Memento.... 100% of the time... barring a critical hit of course.
4. Enough physical defence to tank Weezing's sludgebomb 100% of the time... most of the time for Muk.

-2 252+ SpA Latios Dragon Claw vs. 220 HP / 28 SpD Zapdos: 40-48 (20.7 - 24.8%)

-2 252+ SpA Latios Psychic vs. 220 HP / 28 SpD Zapdos: 45-54 (23.3 - 27.9%)

-2 252+ SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 220 HP / 28 SpD Zapdos: 32-38 (16.5 - 19.6%)

-2 252+ Atk Muk Sludge Bomb vs. 220 HP / 34 Def Zapdos: 41-49 (21.2 - 25.3%)

As you can see, Memento synergizes incredibly well, instead of relying on the inaccurate flash (which does not stack with double team).

Salamence Set Explanation

Salamence (F) @ Lum Berry / Sharp Beak
IVs: 31 HP / 31 Attack / 31 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
EVs: 244 HP / 236 Atk / 14 Def / 16 Spe
Ability: Intimidate
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Dragon Dance

Meet "Salamandra".

1. Near Maximum HP Investment (244 HP Evs) 201 HP !!
2. 236 Atk for a 56.3% chance to ohko Zapdos.
3. 16 speed @ 30 speed iv
   • Out speed Slaking/Zapdos before a boost
   • Out speed Crobat/Jolteon @ +1
   • Rest in physical defense to tank struggles

The only thing that survives are Solrock /lunatone (which does not show up past 49), Zapdos (lives 43.7% of the time) and Skarmory. Curse Skarmory has a chance to avoid a 2ko (needs to minimum rolls or no crit).

Item choice

1. Lum helps in desperate situations when the set up gets ruined by explosion or QC.
2. Sharp Beak guarantees the Curse Skarm 2ko and Zapdos.

+6 236+ Atk Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 153-180 (92.7 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO. Guaranteed with Sharp Beak.

+6 236+ Atk Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 100-118 (58.1 - 68.6%)
+6 236+ Atk Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 67-79 (38.9 - 45.9%)

How to play this team.

Gardevoir's Role

1. Use Thief for potential QC users. Memento next turn.​
2. Thief into Memento on Absol 2​
3. Use Thief on Metagross. If you don't get crit, thunder wave it.​
4. Use Icy-Wind against faster Lum Berry targets (Starmie, Jolteon, Raikou, Gengar)​
5. Use Icy-wind against faster White herb Fires (Houndoom, Arcanine). Then Memento.​
6. Thunder wave potential Dragon dancers like Kingdra/Salamence/Gyarados​
7. Use Thunder wave on Crobat(dangerous if it crits shadowball, Aerodactyl), - just in case it gets an ancient power omni-boost.​
8. Memento straight away against targets you DON'T need to thief or provide speed control (Zapdos already out speeds)​
   1. Weezing/Dewgong/Electabuzz/ Espeon/ Flygon/ Medicham etc.​

Zapdos

1. Completely outstall the AI's moves and baton pass +6 evasion to Salamence

Salamence

1. Receive +6 Evasion from Zapdos
2. Set up 6 dragon dances on -3 struggles or earthquake .
3. Time to Sweep

*The evasion really helps Salamence set up safely with a good amount of heath. It also helps when fully set up. In situations such as focus band/qc or bright powder activations, Salamence can set up another substitute.

Threats and Issues (Difficult leads)

List of faster/QC OHKO users. Big problem if you don't get the thief off.
- Whiscash 4,
- QC Rhydon (Rhydon 1, 3, 2, 4 – easiest to hardest to deal with)
- Arena Trap Dugtrio 3 and 4
- Wailord 4
-Donphan 3
- Walrein 3
-Lapras 8
-Seaking 2
-Nidoking 1

Explosion Leads (Most dangerous listed)- Other ones are also dangerous, but Zapdos can tank their stab move with memento.
-Golem 3, Golem 4
-Steelix 3
-Muk 4- Especially Stickyhold Muk.
-Regirock 1, 2 & 6
-Regice 3
-Forretress 4

Metagross 4, Metagross 5, Metagross 6, Metagross 8, Metagross 7

Icy wind targets (5-15% chance to miss!)
-All Starmie.... most dangerous is Starmie 3
-Raikou
-Gengar 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8. Especially Gengar 5 and 6 - Has shadow Ball and strong special moves. Missing Icy wind is terrible here.
-Jolteon 4. You trace Volt-Absorb. If you miss icy wind or get flinched... DON'T SACK Gardevoir. Try to bait out the thunderbolt to heal and try again.

QC crit from Physicals
- Ursaring 2
-Granbull 3
-Aggron 4
-Snorlax 4- No safe moves, struggles become too strong- have to dodge while setting up.

Potentially Dangerous Brightpowder
--Crobat 4
- Salamence 4 and 5

Baton pass
-Medicham 1
-Umbreon 1- Baton passing evasion to a dangerous sweeper
- Espeon 1
-Scizor 4
-Jolteon 3- Agility passing

-Roar Users (Remember NOT to boost up to +3 evasion until other moves are safely stalled out!
-Articuno 1
-Zapdos 1
-Suicune 3
-Raikou 3 and 5

Metagross 4 Simulations Via Actaeon

CASE 0: ZAPDOS FAINTS BEFORE PASSING
CASE 1: ZAPDOS PASSES +6 EVASION
CASE 2: ZAPDOS PASSES BETWEEN +3 AND +5 EVASION
ZAPDOS VS PARALYZED, NON-QC METAGROSS4 USING TURN 2 DOUBLE TEAM ------------------------------------
Case 0 happens in 475 of the 10000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.044 0.052
Case 1 happens in 9353 of the 10000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.93 0.94
Case 2 happens in 242 of the 10000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.021 0.027

ZAPDOS VS HEALTHY, NON-QC METAGROSS4 USING TURN 2 DOUBLE TEAM ------------------------------------
Case 0 happens in 199 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.175 0.225
Case 1 happens in 759 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.732 0.784
Case 2 happens in 51 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.039 0.066

ZAPDOS VS HEALTHY, NON-QC METAGROSS4 USING SUBTECT FROM THE START ------------------------------------
Case 0 happens in 686 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.657 0.714
Case 1 happens in 309 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.281 0.338
Case 2 happens in 8 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.004 0.016

The optimal play from the simulator via Actaeon is that you have to double team turn 2 versus Metagross 4.

https://pokepast.es/46c6eb1530803ee1

 

[Adedede]

just for fun

That's a bold statement indeed.

 

[justonepost]

My top Pokemon for the Emerald Battle Frontier:

Leftovers: Spore, Substitute, Baton Pass, Belly Drum/Dragon Dance
Choice Band: Double-Edge, Earthquake, Shadow Ball, Hyper Beam
Leftovers: Mirror Coat, Counter, Encore, Destiny Bond
Leftovers: Surf, Ice Beam, Recover, Refresh/Confuse Ray
Lum Berry: Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Substitute/Rock Slide
Leftovers: Calm Mind, Dragon Claw, Recover, Charm/Protect; Thunder Wave, Flash
Lum Berry: Calm Mind, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam
Leftovers: Earthquake, Rock Slide, Rest, Sleep Talk
Lum Berry: Meteor Mash, Earthquake, Explosion, Agility
Salac Berry: Ability:Swarm: Swords Dance, Megahorn, Reversal, Substitute/Endure
Chesto Berry: Dragon Dance, Rest, Earthquake, Body Slam; Substitute/Endure, Flail
Bright Powder: Substitute(breed), Belly Drum, Flail, Shadow Ball; Charm, Thunder Wave, Sand Attack, Trick
Choice Band: Ability:ThickFat: Trick, Torment(Protect), Flash, Reflect/Icy Wind

Honorable mentions:
Leftovers: Ability:RainDish: Rain Dance, Surf, Ice Beam, Giga Drain; Leech Seed, Toxic, Protect, Synthesis
Quick Claw: Spore, Substitute, Swords Dance, Focus Punch
Chesto Berry: Curse, Amnesia, Rest, Aerial Ace/Rollout
Chesto Berry: Ability:Synchronize: Calm Mind, Rest, Psychic, Thunderbolt
Chesto Berry: Ability:Sturdy: Sand Attack, Rest, Thief, Whirlwind
Bright Powder: Ability:NaturalCure: Psychic, Surf, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt
Lum Berry: Grudge, Endure, Spite, Flamethrower

Secondary:
Leftovers: Toxic, Seismic Toss, Milk Drink, Heal Bell; Thunder Wave, Mud-Slap, Growl
Chesto Berry: Earthquake, Rock Slide, Rest, Sand Attack/Fly
Bright Powder: Swords Dance, Substitute, Baton Pass, Silver Wind

FireRed:
Chesto Berry: Calm Mind, Rest, Surf, Ice Beam (COL/XD)
Lum Berry: Double Team, Moonlight, Baton Pass, Sand Attack/Charm
Bright Powder: Charm, Thunder Wave, Sand Attack, Thunderbolt
Leftovers: Ability:ThickFat: Curse, Rest, Body Slam, Shadow Ball
Chesto Berry: Swords Dance, Agility, Rest, Baton Pass; Silver Wind, Steel Wing

FireRed honorable mentions:
Chesto Berry: Dragon Dance, Rest, Earthquake, Aerial Ace; Brick Break
Leftovers: Ability:NaturalCure: Toxic, Seismic Toss, Soft-Boiled, Heal Bell
Chesto Berry: Calm Mind, Thunderbolt, Crunch, Rest (COL/XD)
Thick Club: Ability:RockHead: Swords Dance, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Double-Edge
Salac Berry: Swords Dance, Reversal, Aerial Ace, Substitute/Endure
Leftovers: Calm Mind, Charm, Morning Sun, Baton Pass
Chesto Berry: Ice Beam, Mind Reader, Sheer Cold, Rest

FireRed secondary:
Chesto Berry: Dragon Dance, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Rest
Lum Berry: Perish Song, Protect, Mean Look, Destiny Bond
Chesto Berry: Thunder Wave, Flash, Rest, Thunderbolt; Drill Peck

 

[Kommo-o]

My top Pokemon for the Emerald Battle Frontier:

Quick Claw: Spore, Substitute, Swords Dance, Focus Punch
Choice Band: Double-Edge, Earthquake, Shadow Ball, Hyper Beam
Leftovers: Mirror Coat, Counter, Encore, Destiny Bond
Bright Powder: Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Rock Slide
Leftovers: Surf, Ice Beam, Recover, Refresh
Leftovers: Calm Mind, Recover, Dragon Claw, Charm
Lum Berry: Calm Mind, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam
Leftovers: Earthquake, Ice Beam, Surf, Rock Slide
Choice Band: Meteor Mash, Earthquake, Explosion, Agility
Salac Berry: Ability:Swarm: Swords Dance, Megahorn, Reversal, Endure
Bright Powder: Dragon Dance, Endure, Flail, Earthquake

Honorable mentions:
Leftovers: Rain Dance, Surf, Ice Beam, Giga Drain; Leech Seed, Toxic, Protect, Synthesis
Chesto Berry: Calm Mind, Rest, Psychic, Thunderbolt/Fire Punch
Bright Powder: Substitute(Breeding:Kecleon), Belly Drum, Flail, Attract; Trick(Choice Band), Charm, Thunder Wave, Sand Attack

Bad:
Leftovers: Curse, Amnesia, Rest, Aerial Ace
Leftovers: Milk Drink, Heal Bell, Body Slam, Earthquake; Thunder Wave, Mud-Slap, Growl
Chesto Berry: Sand Attack, Rest, Drill Peck, Steel Wing
Chesto Berry: Sand Attack, Rest, Earthquake, Rock Slide
Bright Powder: Swords Dance, Substitute, Baton Pass, Silver Wind

FireRed:
Chesto Berry: Calm Mind, Rest, Surf, Ice Beam
Lum Berry: Double Team, Sand Attack/Curse/Charm, Moonlight, Baton Pass
Leftovers: Curse, Rest, Body Slam, Shadow Ball
Bright Powder: Swords Dance, Agility, Silver Wind, Steel Wing; Rest, Baton Pass

FireRed honorable mentions:
Bright Powder: Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Brick Break
Bright Powder: Dragon Dance, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Aerial Ace
Bright Powder: Reflect, Calm Mind, Thunderbolt, Crunch
Leftovers: Toxic, Seismic Toss, Soft-Boiled, Heal Bell
Thick Club: Ability:RockHead: Swords Dance, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Double-Edge

Best Team for Battle Tower: (+No special items, attacks or games required)

Are you listing the Pokemon available on your games? FYI we do have a Frontier tierlist that I made with the help of other users in here. If you're talking about the best team you can come up with the Pokemon you have available, I think that you can make better combinations using different Pokemon other than Breloom or a Hidden Power-less Gyarados. Also, don't use FRLG Raikou/Suicune, these are glitched to 0 IVs.

 

[YumaKuga]

My top Pokemon for the Emerald Battle Frontier:

Quick Claw: Spore, Substitute, Swords Dance, Focus Punch
Choice Band: Double-Edge, Earthquake, Shadow Ball, Hyper Beam
Leftovers: Mirror Coat, Counter, Encore, Destiny Bond
Bright Powder: Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Rock Slide
Leftovers: Surf, Ice Beam, Recover, Refresh
Leftovers: Calm Mind, Recover, Dragon Claw, Charm
Lum Berry: Calm Mind, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam
Leftovers: Earthquake, Ice Beam, Surf, Rock Slide
Choice Band: Meteor Mash, Earthquake, Explosion, Agility
Salac Berry: Ability:Swarm: Swords Dance, Megahorn, Reversal, Endure
Bright Powder: Dragon Dance, Endure, Flail, Earthquake

Honorable mentions:
Leftovers: Rain Dance, Surf, Ice Beam, Giga Drain; Leech Seed, Toxic, Protect, Synthesis
Chesto Berry: Calm Mind, Rest, Psychic, Thunderbolt/Fire Punch
Bright Powder: Substitute(Breeding:Kecleon), Belly Drum, Flail, Attract; Trick(Choice Band), Charm, Thunder Wave, Sand Attack

Bad:
Leftovers: Curse, Amnesia, Rest, Aerial Ace
Leftovers: Milk Drink, Heal Bell, Body Slam, Earthquake; Thunder Wave, Mud-Slap, Growl
Chesto Berry: Sand Attack, Rest, Drill Peck, Steel Wing
Chesto Berry: Sand Attack, Rest, Earthquake, Rock Slide
Bright Powder: Swords Dance, Substitute, Baton Pass, Silver Wind

FireRed:
Chesto Berry: Calm Mind, Rest, Surf, Ice Beam
Lum Berry: Double Team, Sand Attack/Curse/Charm, Moonlight, Baton Pass
Leftovers: Curse, Rest, Body Slam, Shadow Ball
Bright Powder: Swords Dance, Agility, Silver Wind, Steel Wing; Rest, Baton Pass

FireRed honorable mentions:
Bright Powder: Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Brick Break
Bright Powder: Dragon Dance, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Aerial Ace
Bright Powder: Reflect, Calm Mind, Thunderbolt, Crunch
Leftovers: Toxic, Seismic Toss, Soft-Boiled, Heal Bell
Thick Club: Ability:RockHead: Swords Dance, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Double-Edge

Best Team for Battle Tower: (+No special items, attacks or games required)

I would beg to differ and say that Skarmory is not a bad mon for the tower whatsoever. Same with Registeel. They just have a specific playstyle but even they excel in this gens tower *glances at Kommo-os based Jojos reference team with the German Registeel*
Also your best team is sadly not the best team for tower no offense here. Especially looking at your top emerald pokemon, there are just better Team combinations right there like with Metagross who imo is amazingly good and fun to use over a one trick pony Breloom or a meh level Gyarados who got shafted this gen because of no physical special split. Gyarados is still good don't get me wrong but he's very hidden power flying specific
I'm just confused by the post in general because it comes off incorrect to me as well.
Seriously Skarms good, just look at first place on the board

 

[Kommo-o]

CHOCOLATE D-I-S-C-O​

It's been a while since I attempted the Battle Tower again but I wanted to introduce everyone a new team that I have been playing recently on the Discord that I really felt in love with. I'm happy with how this team worked and the innovations I made in order to grind on wins. The results so far are not living up to its potential but I genuinely believe this team can hit 1000 wins with some small luck on its favor. Before you dig into this post, I wanted to let you know that Quick Claw Regirock is the main sweeper of this team. How is it working? Start scrolling down and find out!

View attachment 355882​

Warning: Jojo references

Team Building

• 
  The original idea was to use Registeel for obvious reasons. Not only it provided perfect synergy with Zapdos and Grumpig, but it also resisted each other's weaknesses and it could even allow PP stalling. However, as someone who has extensively knew how to use Registeel, I knew this was not going to work in practice for various reasons: Registeel's weak base Attack doesn't allows it to sweep as the single sweeper on this team and when you consider I had to pair it with Gyarados on DDW, that pretty much shows why. Registeel can't beat Pressure users that resist its main STAB like Raikou and Entei who often use Rest or have a way to boost their stats (Calm Mind + Double Team). It also struggles against Water types who resist its STAB and have ways to recover the lost health (Ludicolo).
• 
  The next idea was Snorlax but this was short-lived for various reasons. Normal STAB sucks and depending on the coverage move you choose, you will inevitably get walled by something which completely beats the purpose of using a mono-sweeper on a Trick team.
• 
  At first, I didn't really consider Regirock as a serious option but when I started to look into the list of Curse users, I felt that Regirock was worth a try. STAB Rock is really potent, it has no immunities and Regirock learns Earthquake which means that it gets the only coverage move it will ever need. Regirock also resists Normal which shouldn't make an issue setting up against Choice Banded Normal types like Granbull or Usaring if needed.

View attachment 355867
Peppa (Grumpig) (F) @ Choice Band
IVs: 31-4-31-31-31-31
EVs: 214 HP / 204 Def / 92 Spe
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Torment
- Reflect
- Icy Wind


This is pretty much Actaeon's Grumpig set. I haven't experimented a lot with Alakazam and Linoone, but hands down, this is the best Trick user in G3 and if you think otherwise, then your opinion is invalid. While Grumpig doesn't has Alakazam's or Linoone's speed, it makes it up with bulk and a pseudo-resistance to Ice, thanks to Thick Fat, which is really amazing. Trick is pretty much standard stuff. You lock the opponent into a single move and then you focus on having your next Pokemon set up as much as you can until it eventually struggles and pretty much set up the win. Torment exists mostly for special attackers preventing the AI from using the same move twice in a row. It also makes set-up easier for Zapdos as you can Protect while they use their attack and set up Double Team on the turns the opponent has to Struggle. Reflect is my biggest innovation on Actaeon's set. Unlike submenceisop and Actaeon I wasn't running Skill Swap and my team lacked an Intimidate user or Mud Slap which would've forced me to run this move. Since Zapdos raises its own evasion and I am not using de-buffing moves, I felt that Reflect suits the bill in here. With Reflect up, Zapdos takes a pittance from Metagross' Shadow Ball or Meteor Mash which allows it to comfortably set up on it. It also allows Grumpig to survive Explosion from the likes of Golem or Steelix if they decide to explode on turn 1 which allows Grumpig to survive and set up for later. Reflect also has the advantage of weakening Struggles from strong physical attackers like Ursaring or Snorlax. The benefits the team gains from Reflect has convinced me that if you're not running Skill Swap, this is the best move you can get as filler. The last move is Icy Wind and with Grumpig's speed investment, it allows Grumpig to outspeed neutral 252 Spe Jolteon and Crobat after a speed drop.

The EVs are pretty simple and I didn't make changes from what Actaeon typically runs: 92 Speed EVs with a Timid nature outspeeds all Metagross sets and Salamence 4 as well. The 214HP EVs and 204 Def EVs allows Grumpig to survive Rhydon's Megahorn and Banded Metagross' Shadow Ball, meaning that Grumpig can pretty much set a Reflect or Torment depending on the situation.

Stormbreak (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
IVs: 31-10-30-31-31-31
EVs: 220 HP / 2 Atk / 60 Def / 228 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Double Team

This is submenceisop's Zapdos and as a Baton Passer you won't be able to find a better candidate than Zapdos. It's good defensive typing, excellent stats and speed allows it to perform this role extremely well. Normally, once Grumpig Tricks an opponent and cripples it with Torment, Zapdos switches in to start the set-up that will inevitably allow Regirock to boost its stats and sweep. Protect and Substitute are bread and butter as Zapdos can protect on the attacks that would normally break its Substitute while it sets up Double Team on Struggle. Thanks to Pressure, this becomes a deadly combination that allows Zapdos to stall the opponent's PPs until it burns it out. It also allows Zapdos to stall out from moves that would otherwise put him in danger until the opponent. Double Team is an important move as it allows Zapdos to increase its evasion and pass them down to Regirock with Baton Pass. On most cases, once you get into +6 evasion and under a Substitute, Regirock becomes the recipient which allows it to continue the set-up and prepare it for the sweep.

Just like Grumpig, I didn't deviate from submenceisop's Zapdos set either: 228 Speed EVs allows Zapdos to outspeed Espeon by one point meaning that it can set up on it before it breaks its Substitute. 220 HP and 60 Defense are placed for bulk. With Reflect up, Metagross Choice Banded Shadow Ball / Meteor Mash fails to break its Substitute.

CHOCODISCO (Regirock) @ Quick Claw
IVs: 30-31-30-19-30-30
EVs: 242 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]


The main star of this team and the main sweeper. Once Zapdos is fully set-up, most of the time, the opponent will have its PP dried up and with the Choice Band locked, it will only be able to use Struggle. With evasion and a sub, Regirock now has all the turns it needs to set up Curse to bolster its Attack and Defense all the way to +6 in order to start a sweep. Hidden Power Rock was chosen as the main STAB due to Rock Slide's shaky accuracy. While that extra 5 base power allows Regirock to OHKO Flygon at +6, it does not compensates the 90% accuracy which can result in inconvenient misses. Earthquake allows Regirock to crush Steelix, Metagross and Rhydon into smithereens while hitting anything that resist its Rock STAB. While Flygon and Breloom are the only two Pokemon that resist both HP Rock and Earthquake, once Regirock is fully set-up, these two can't do anything to stop its sweep due to Regirock's defense boosts tanking their super-effective STABs while being unable to break its Sub at +6 if it didn't took lots of damage before. I had a lot to think when it came to the last move and while it would've been weird to use Substitute without recovery, this allows Regirock to set up again. With Substitute, Regirock protects itself from status moves that could cripple it, OHKO moves that ignore the evasion boosts it built up and attacks that could OHKO it. I wish I could fit Rest somewhere since I've been on situations where Regirock could've really used the HP recovery, but Regirock really needs both of its attacks and without Sub, Regirock would be relying completely on just the Substitute Zapdos passes on, which can be easily broken if the opponent's Struggle is powerful enough. What really makes me feel proud about this Regirock set is how effective Quick Claw has been as the item of choice: It seems like a meme choice, but it does so extremely well. With Substitute, Lum Berry is extremely situational and while Hard Rock is tempting, once I tested Quick Claw, I haven't looked back. With Quick Claw, Regirock can occasionally outspeed the opponent and KO the opponent which pretty much allows it to keep its Sub intact against a faster opponent while continuing its sweep. Sometimes, getting a priority Curse is also nice when setting up since it reduces the opponent's damage.

Regirock needed max Attack in order to achieve OHKOs on Skarmory at +6, so I had to RNG one through Method 4 on Pokemon Box. Anyways, 242 HP with the IV combination allows Regirock to hit 185 HP and create an extra sub thanks to the uneven numbers. The rest is dumped into Special Defense to bump its defenses a little bit. With Regirock's Defense already being immense, I didn't found any notable calculations that would benefit from having extra Def EVs.

Threatlist

• Quick Claw users can be dangerous, but the worse ones are the users who run Explosion. While Grumpig might be able to Trick them, if they go down with Grumpig, the team loses its main way to set up. I normally use Reflect against them just to survive the T1 Explosion shenanigan.
• If it gets locked into Curse, it becomes annoying because a +6 Struggle with a Choice Band hits very hard. You want to Torment in here so that Zapdos can freely set up the evasion boosts while Protecting on Struggle.
• Psych Up is pretty annoying and it normally forces the team to set up all over again because it makes me obligated to not build up on the evasion boosts. Fortunately, most Psych Up users are easily stalled up by Zapdos and once it burns their PP, it can set up again. It's a very long process though.
• Normal types with strong attacks are dangerous as it pretty much means Grumpig won't have a 2nd turn to live. Reflect is necessary but it usually means Zapdos will only have a few turns to build up on evasion boosts. Mega Kick Granbull / Ursaring are easily stalled out but Double Edge Ursaring is scary...
• While not as dangerous as Claydol or Steelix, Shiftry can still mess up the team. However, once Grumpig sets up Reflect, Zapdos bosses this motherfucker even if it decides to Explode.
• Sticky Hold prevents Trick, which means that Grumpig cannot lock it into a move. Add Sludge Bomb's 30% chance of poisoning and having access to QC and Explosion, makes Muk the biggest threat to this team. I have no choice but to take him 1-v-1 with Regirock and Earthquake it.
• Avoid tricking against these Pokemon and simply set up against them

Pretty sure they are out there more threats but will update this section as I find them

Exportable

http://spo.ink/chocolate

Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I haven't been able to record a video of how this team works and so far I have only limited myself on streaming it through the Discord. Special thanks to Actaeon and submenceisop for creating the Grumpig and Zapdos sets. Thanks to both of you, Regirock has finally claimed a place on Gen 3 Frontier!

I finally got some small footage of Regirock and how well it works as the main sweeper of this team. I had Actaeon join me in the commentary, so I hope that everyone enjoys the video in which me and Actaeon discuss how the team works while playing it.

 

[justonepost]

I would beg to differ and say that Skarmory is not a bad mon for the tower whatsoever. Same with Registeel. They just have a specific playstyle but even they excel in this gens tower *glances at Kommo-os based Jojos reference team with the German Registeel*
Also your best team is sadly not the best team for tower no offense here. Especially looking at your top emerald pokemon, there are just better Team combinations right there like with Metagross who imo is amazingly good and fun to use over a one trick pony Breloom or a meh level Gyarados who got shafted this gen because of no physical special split. Gyarados is still good don't get me wrong but he's very hidden power flying specific
I'm just confused by the post in general because it comes off incorrect to me as well.
Seriously Skarms good, just look at first place on the board

Are you listing the Pokemon available on your games? FYI we do have a Frontier tierlist that I made with the help of other users in here. If you're talking about the best team you can come up with the Pokemon you have available, I think that you can make better combinations using different Pokemon other than Breloom or a Hidden Power-less Gyarados. Also, don't use FRLG Raikou/Suicune, these are glitched to 0 IVs.

This post should just be a general overview for beginners, so that they know which pokemon are generally considered to be good (by me.)
I know that many people think that Skarmory is good, well I had bad experiences with it.
I never used Rng Manipulation therefore Hidden Power Gyarados isn't for me, but I came up with this(and it's surprisingly good).
Oh, I didn't know that with Suicune, but I never played GameCube, still thanks.
I haven't seen your interesting tier list before, looks great to me, i have ranked with specific movepools/strategies as a difference.
But doesn't Steelix has 4 weaknesses(3 in your post) and no OHKO protection(up to gen.5)?
Yeah, i know what you mean, first place on board is Skarmory. But this team is extremely slow and you have to evaluate your enemies,
I wanted a team that is easy to make and fast. I think there are many unbeatable teams such as Trick (Grumpig, Linoone) and Cripple
(Latias, Skarmory, Umbreon), my suggestion was just an example. Anyway thanks for your replies to my post.

 

[Kommo-o]

This post should just be a general overview for beginners, so that they know which pokemon are generally considered to be good (by me.)
I never used Rng Manipulation therefore Hidden Power Gyarados isn't for me, but I came up with this(and it's surprisingly good).

Gyarados is a very underwhelming sweeper without a STAB. Salamence can at least use Aerial Ace, which comes at the bonus of not missing. However, Flail is a very weak move, even at 1 HP and it relies on weakening itself. You can't rely on building Dragon Dance boosts while shooting to survive an attack. You can still get freezed by Enduring an Ice Beam or paralyzed by Enduring a Thunderbolt. Also, depending on what level you are playing, Tyranitar's Sand Stream will pretty much end a Gyarados sweep at 1 HP. (You're also listing Bright Powder with Endure, who has the same chances of failing by spamming it) if the attack misses, your Endure is fucked.

RNG abusing for Hidden Power is definitely worth its time when you're willing to get the best Pokemon possible for Frontier. There's a lot of guides and resources available and with some patience, you can definitely learn how to RNG abuse.

I know that many people think that Skarmory is good, well I had bad experiences with it.

I don't think it's a matter of "people thinking Skarmory is good". Skarmory is one of the best Pokemon you can use and it has been massively proven by the best players on this forum. It's fine to dislike him if you're not a big fan of slow set-up teams, but Skarm is definitely one of the best. Just ask Adedede who owns the #1 record on the thread.

But doesn't Steelix has 4 weaknesses(3 in your post) and no OHKO protection(up to gen.5)?

Yep, this is a typo. I just got it fixed so thanks for letting me know! Also Sturdy does give protection against OHKO attacks in Gen 3.

I wanted a team that is easy to make and fast. I think there are many unbeatable teams such as Trick (Grumpig, Linoone) and Cripple (Latias, Skarmory, Umbreon)

Fast teams are decent enough to grind for Symbols, but if you're aiming higher, you'll need a more carefully devised plan because in the end, Gen 3 is one of the generations with the highest luck factor being involved (Quick Claw, Bright Power and Focus Band). Going all out offense won't solve these issues which is why we devise strategies such as Substitute sweepers, Thief, Whirlwind, etc that we come up with and why these teams are capable of aiming for high streaks.

Either way, thanks for sharing this. It's always good to have any kind of healthy debate and I'm happy to know that you weren't posting just for the sake of trolling. There's plenty of things you can learn in here by taking a deep dive. It's not easy but feel free to ask questions whenever possible.

 

[YumaKuga]

This post should just be a general overview for beginners, so that they know which pokemon are generally considered to be good (by me.)
I know that many people think that Skarmory is good, well I had bad experiences with it.
I never used Rng Manipulation therefore Hidden Power Gyarados isn't for me, but I came up with this(and it's surprisingly good).
Oh, I didn't know that with Suicune, but I never played GameCube, still thanks.
I haven't seen your interesting tier list before, looks great to me, i have ranked with specific movepools/strategies as a difference.
But doesn't Steelix has 4 weaknesses(3 in your post) and no OHKO protection(up to gen.5)?
Yeah, i know what you mean, first place on board is Skarmory. But this team is extremely slow and you have to evaluate your enemies,
I wanted a team that is easy to make and fast. I think there are many unbeatable teams such as Trick (Grumpig, Linoone) and Cripple
(Latias, Skarmory, Umbreon), my suggestion was just an example. Anyway thanks for your replies to my post.

Before I write all this I wanna say this is not meant to be rude or anything, just my two cents to your post and my thoughts. Personally I dont see how it could help beginners as an overview, when a few of the Pokemon even if they are meant to be examples per say have very subpar movesets and on top of that you do not explain any of the moveset choices in general. Also I see you did edit the post to remove what you claimed to be the best team for Emerald Tower and that's what I mainly want to talk about first. Personally I think its fair to not only you, but everyone else here for you to explain as to why you think its the best team for Tower. I say this because you had listed no examples for how you played it, how far it even got in Tower, no threat list etc Its just a very bold claim to make on your first post and not adding any backing up evidence as to why hurts its credibility to the team. Now its true you do not have HP flying Gyarados because you dont RNG manip (IMO gen 3 is one of the easier gens to do it in) But you technically could do old fashioned egg breeding like me and still have access to it, even if it is tedious. If your best team for tower was just an example, again its best to always provide lots of details as to why it works because it helps a lot of people like me to better understand it.
Tbh any team fast or slow, hyper offense or stall you still need to evaluate your opponents Pokemon. At least that's what I do so I can not only help understand what my team is good or bad against, but it also helps me when I want to do a write up about the team in the future when I share it.

Again these are just my thoughts on this. I just in the end feel its more fair to the longstanding veterans here to provide clear and cohesive examples as to why your team is the best for Tower and is somehow better then theirs. And to finish off, any team is beatable, its just depends when the rng is not if your favor at a given moment and you start losing accuracy coin flips. As much as I wish there can be a team that will always win 100% and never lose, but in the tower when the RNG is already not in your favor, sooner or later you will have a loss

Okay okay final part of this post. Why no Starmie though for your top emerald pokemon, the things amazing and fun to use imo
Again sorry for the long post, just my thoughts and welcome to the thread

 

[Kommo-o]

Ah the thing with OHKO is because i use German Pokewiki and there is a big confusion cause in german you say only KO-Attack to OHKO.
I'm far from perfect, but i had a feeling that this list could be very triggering cause ultimately the strategy is decisive, not the pokemon itself.
But i definitely wouldn't say that the list has subpar movesets(no Hidden Power, too few Substitute?), I'm actually very proud of the movesets because i think they are the best.

You're absolutely right that this list could offend many cause they use especially Skarmory, in the end this is only my honest personal opinion.
Starmie is in my opinion outclassed by Latios because they have identical movesets and type weakness. Originally i had a Starmie: Lum Berry Ability:NaturalCure: Cosmic Power, Recover, Psychic, Surf in "Bad" but i decided it is too "bad".

Anyway i originally only wanted to post this and finish with it. There is somtimes incredible hax with critical, freezing, sleep, flinch, confusion combined with Quick Claw bad prospects, so really invincible is probably indeed impossible.(but theoretically yes;)
No Problem i love long posts, that's why this time i write a little bit more freely and not so deliberately. Sorry that i only write just now, thanks for the invitation but i think i'm done (My Name is JustOne(controversial)Post).

Just figured I'd let you know there was no offense taken (at least from my part). Of course, we can all agree or disagree on many things. Although I have to mention that in order to claim that certain "X" thing is better than "Y" you need to back up these kind of claims. Starmie is one of the best all-out attackers in Gen 3 and what makes it a decent offensive weapon is the coverage options it gets. It is outclassed and inferior to the Lati@s brothers, no doubt about that and almost everyone in here will agree with you on that. However, Starmie is a very fary cry from being considered "a bad Pokemon." For players who can't RNG a good Lati@s with high IVs, Starmie is a great option for them.

Regarding the move-sets suggestions you posted, if you can't get a Registeel with Hidden Power Steel, just avoid using it. Without a Hidden Power of the same type, it's not even worth considering alternatives or other options because Registeel's offensive stats aren't great and as a defensive Pokemon, it can't really afford to run such low base power attacks.

You also suggested Breloom as a top tier Pokemon. How does Breloom justifies itself being a much better Pokemon than other such as Blissey, Skarmory or even Snorlax? The x4 weakness to Flying, subpar Speed, multiple weaknesses and lack of bulk, doesn't makes it "the best" Pokemon to use. While it has access to Spore and Focus Punch, Breloom can only use its Fighting STAB because the other STAB is special-based. This means it can't beat Water types like Starmie, Slowbro or even Gyarados. Additionally, sleep turns are not meant to last forever, you can get as less than 1 turn of sleep and that's it. Quick Claw also doesn't solves the Speed issue because it only has a 20% to move first, so this doesn't means it will always be faster than Pokemon like Moltres or Salamence.

Absolutely, i think there is always hax and bad luck with for example freeze. Gyarados was originally in my Honorable mentions but after i tried it out it exceeded my expectations and i really consider it to be that good. Bright Powder lowers accuracy of Toxic to 75%, Will-O-Wisp to 65% and Thunder Wave to 90% but with full set up you get normal speed again.(yeahh)
Lum Berry will only be good once (very good), but Bright Powder will always be good and eventually >6times. I don't know how the majority thinks of Gyarados, but i can put it in honorable if that's really better this way. Originally i created the list for myself and my guys who would still be interested, but somewhere i have to share this. (could be of some use)

Re: Brightpowder, it only reduces the accuracy of a certain move, but this doesn't means it will always work. While a Lum Berry can be consumed only once per battle, it basically does it job which is preventing Gyarados from getting permanently crippled by paralysis, let you escape from an unexpected freeze or burn from a fire attack. This isn't something Brightpowder will protect you against and it can be the decisive factor on getting a sweep or being beaten down by the opponent. Even if it's a one time use, Lum Berry, on most cases will always end up being the superior item.

Of course a little bit evaluation must be done, but i didn't plan to use a programm to do so, but probably you must use it anyway if you want to reach a wr streak.(i didn't up to now)
I really appreciate these accurate, long descriptios as well, cause they consider many things and mostly add more value.

If you are referring to Actaeon's DomeAssistant, it's just a tool that gives you the possibilities of which sets the opponents can carry. We only use at most a spreadsheet that pretty much gives us the information on the kind of Pokemon that the AI is using. Damage calculator is used simply to calculate how much damage you can receive from a certain attack. Helps a lot on teambuilding as otherwise you can customize your EVs based on what you want to survive.

With all being said, my intention is not to attack you though and I do appreciate you shared this with all of us. We're always welcome to hear more about how to rank or judge a certain Pokemon over others, although if you can provide more valuable information as to why you believe certain Pokemon is better than others, would be great!