Serious Religion and Politics

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
To preface, any religious hatred should be left out of this thread. Everyone deserves to believe in what they want without being called slurs and whatnot. There's a fine line to be walked here.

--

Historically, religion has had an indisputable amount of influence on politics in many countries. You could even say it's dominated some country's politics. Personally, I've been fascinated by the topic and would love to explore it.

In England, there was a well-documented political sling during the Tudor era where we had Protestants and Catholics taking rights from each other when new rulers followed the opposite religion. Henry VIII notably broke from the Catholic Church, which forbade divorce, to establish the Church of England. This led to the "English Reformation", which was fueled by intent to advance Protestantism. This eventually led to "Royal Supremacy", where England kind of broke from Rome completely and Henry VIII was excommunicated. Opposition to the Royal Supremacy was actually punishable by death! Religion was a huge thing in English politics back then.

From what I've seen in present times, American politics has heavy Christian influences, particularly from right-wing factions. Hell, there's even been attempts to make it more of a Christian nation in its Constitution. It's not uncommon for presidents to swear in using a bible, sometimes two, though there's many exceptions. There's been many attempts to merge church and state by fringe groups of Christians as well, often citing anti-Islam or antisemitic rhetoric when doing so.

Middle eastern countries appear to have quite a few Islamic political movements with heavy influences from various branches of Islam, such as Sunni or Shia Muslims. However, there's a ton of these, and I'm not too educated on this, and would love to learn more.

There are some notable cases of religious discrimination in politics as well, which I find interesting for discussion. One of the most notable cases of this would be the antisemitic rhetoric that's often spouted by hate groups to gain footing. The Nazi Party notably utilized this in Hitler's rise to power, eventually leading to the Holocaust and genocide of Jewish communities. You really don't get much clearer religious discrimination than that. Turkey has also had an extensive history of religious discrimination against numerous groups. However, this is more blatant racism (particularly against Kurdish people) than anti-religious sentiment.

Overall, there's a lot of interesting areas for discussion here, and I'd love to hear people's thoughts on it. If I've misunderstood anything, feel free to correct me!
 
The reason why religion has a large influence on politics today traces back in the medieval era, where religions played a vital role in ruling of the kingdoms. The Christians went on to crusades for the glory of the Church while the Muslims also expanded their kingdoms. The laws enacted back then were based on what was moral in their respective religion. The influence of religion in politics just keeps on being passed on through generations. Since OP mentioned the battle between King Henry VIII and the Catholic Church, I would want to share a historical drama series in 2007-2010 titled The Tudors. It's a good series and you could see that the Church leaders were political powerhouses back then.

In the Philippines, the influence of the Catholic Church is quite strong that divorce is still illegal in the country. The divorce bill has been filed multiple times in the Senate to no avail. Estranged couples have to go to civic annulment of marriage, which is a very long process and much more costly. The only people able to get divorce in the Philippines are the Filipino Muslims. The Reproductive Health Law, which guarantees universal access to methods on contraception, fertility control, sexual education, and maternal care, lasted almost 2 years as a bill before being passed as a law on 2012. The bill was a highly divisive topic due to the protests of the Catholic Church against it.

Although still influential, religion actually has far less influence on politics today than before due to the separation of the church and the state being applied to most countries. The decrease is and will be slow and gradual. I think that on this day, religion has the strongest political influence on countries with a state religion (non-secular countries), where a certain religion is officially endorsed by the state. In some of those countries, there is religious discrimination on people not following the state religion.
 
Basically all modern countries have separation of church and state on some official level, though there are often a lot of laws influenced by religion. The role that religions do primarily play is to protect their interests, which can be good or bad (although the bad tends to get more attention).

Historically religion in government was a lot more common and there are still plenty of countries where that's still the case, but I think it's a declining thing on the whole.
 
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Dorron

BLU LOBSTAH
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Sry for bumping this but this is a topic I really like talking about. I think religion and politics are pretty interesting as a discussion topic not only because of how these have influenced history but also because of letting you know much more about the ideas and mentality of the people you argue this with.

For me, religion has always been in my life, although not because of me entirely. My entire family was and is catholic, we even have draws and statues at home. However, this is not my case. Since when I was about 11, I started to question about God's existence and why my mother had always tried to guide me across Catholicism. When meeting up with my family, they didn't give me any strong reason to believe in God's existence, nor in other. That was how I started knowing more about the atheism. I also used to talk about these things with a friend when I was young, so this helped me to feel like I was not alone in this.
Nowadays, I still am atheistic, and honestly I don't think this will ever change, but I am totally open to discuss this with whoever wants to.


About politics, I've always been a bit oblivious to it as I've always found it very doctrinal. I try to not discussing politics with my parents or any member of my family in general as they are so stubborn and even if I showed them proof of their political party being shit and the one they don't vote managing things well, they wouldn't listen to me. It's been common for me to have classmates whose ideas are totally primitive and, for any reason nobody would ever know, exactly the same as their parent's and grandparent's ideas. This is how the country won't progress. The mindset of our political leaders must be up to date, not stuck in the 20th century. And the ones who aren't stuck in the 20th century are totally extreme, so it is hard to find people who won't get offended by your different political opinion. I hope this is not the case here!
 

Liza Hawkeye

Banned deucer.
idk abt religions, im more intrested in common sense, my parents religious and i see them as snob.
they also was rather political yet dumped cuz being burden and useless, i never involved and see it as war instead of fruitful game.
 
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Candy Corn

Banned deucer.
When it comes to American politics, I must say that I am rather disappointed with everything as a whole. I am not talking about policies or anything though. I don't like how biased the media is, and I am speaking about both sides of the spectrum. Left and Right Wing media outlets both spin stories to make their viewers hate the opposing party. It's frustrating to watch as people tend to just take what they hear and apply it to themselves. I think everyone would be better off staying away from political news outlets and just form opinions on things themselves as events happen.

I also think political parties are just awful in general. I'm very conservative and traditional in my thinking, but I don't necessarily support the republican party. Despite what they claim, they do everything the Democratic party does, it's just under a different guise. Politics are the same, no matter your party. It's all about gaining support, it's all about painting negative pictures of your opponents, and it's all about playing into certain things that trigger your supporters.


As a Christian, I find this behavior wrong. I also find that God should be the center of my life, and not a political figure. So I choose to base my actions according to God's word, and try not to get too wrapped up in politics.
 

Dorron

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When it comes to American politics, I must say that I am rather disappointed with everything as a whole. I am not talking about policies or anything though. I don't like how biased the media is, and I am speaking about both sides of the spectrum. Left and Right Wing media outlets both spin stories to make their viewers hate the opposing party. It's frustrating to watch as people tend to just take what they hear and apply it to themselves. I think everyone would be better off staying away from political news outlets and just form opinions on things themselves as events happen.

I also think political parties are just awful in general. I'm very conservative and traditional in my thinking, but I don't necessarily support the republican party. Despite what they claim, they do everything the Democratic party does, it's just under a different guise. Politics are the same, no matter your party. It's all about gaining support, it's all about painting negative pictures of your opponents, and it's all about playing into certain things that trigger your supporters.
I totally agree. Here in Spain there are like five political parties and I don't identify with any of them. The only thing they do is to talk shit about the other parties instead of proposing solutions for the endless list of problems the country has. They are just trying to have the best image they can in social media to simply raise taxes and other shit. I also find political parties in general stupid with the system we have rn. Imagine if things are so wrong here that the radical right party is getting even more and more votes due to the other parties doing nothing important.

Nobody can do anything to help this but the one who is benefied by this.
 

shnowshner

You've Gotta Try
is a Pre-Contributor
I could easily ramble for hours on this subject but I'm not an expert in either field, so I want to make clear that much of what I say is my own.

American politics are a diasaster and most people in the country probably don't know why, but those outside of the US can often tell if they have any political inclinations. Not to say that our country isn't divided, but that divide is less political and more cultural. American politics are, in large part, one big cultural battle, with other aspects simply... left out. You ask an American how the parties fall on the "Political Spectrum," and you'll almost certainly see the Republics on the right of the center and Democrats on the left. From their persective, this is obvious, but from a global perspective, Republicans and Democrats are both right-wing parties! Hilarious, right? It's awful.

I only learned this because I took a politics class in college and my professor was a Turkish immigrant, who almost certainly left her home country because her views (and those of her family as well) were not 100% in line with God-Emporer Edroğan. Her perspective was a mixture of European and Middle-East/Near East and as a result she has a very in-depth understanding of political theory and respective ideologies. So when she came to the States to teach at the college I attended, she was, no joke, completely baffled at the state of American Politics. To her, the parties were pretty much the exact same: she couldn't figure out why everyone saw them as polar opposites.

American Politics are largely defined by cultural values, since no party wants to deface Democratic values and the lauded "freedom" Americans need to stay nourished. Capitalism is also beyond question as the public sees it as integral to America's idenitity, while political parties are never, in their current state, going to reform the system that keeps their wealthiest donors afloat. Because American's don't like the term "corruption" and are more partial to "lobbying." So with system of government set-in-stone and none of the major parties wanting to sever ties with their income, the Democrats and Republicans end up quite similar.

I have seen some more radical leftists view this dynamic as an effort to push the United States further right and keep Socialism out of the country. Personally I associate this phenomena to two things:
  1. This country is largely run/persuaded by morons and people who care only for their own success, maybe at the same time.
  2. The United States is inherently right-wing, so this is sorta inevitable.
The 2nd reason is the main attachment to this thread: the country being so skewed to the right is at least partially a result of Christian influence over the past hundreds of years. It's funny, though; depending on one's perspective the status of Christianity in the US is vastly different. You go to practically any church service in the United States and I guarantee you'll hear something about how far the state has "turned away from God." Meanwhile as I wander the internet all I have hear from its endless supply of millenials and zoomers is how insufferably religious the country is. Cool, isn't it? Two opposing viewpoints look at the same thing and come up with different conclusions of its nature.

My belief is that this is because the United States has adapted itself into the mold of being a nation built upon Christian doctrine, without actually ever having been one as we would like to think today. Because Christianity itself is practicing the teachings of the New Testament, which is different from what said works actually teaches. The form, and understanding of Christianity of the first Europeans to set foot in the Americans, of the founding fathers, of the North and South during the Civil War, and of today, are quite different. As such, the social and cultural aspects of the United States have a lot of roots in Christianity, some more obvious and some more subtle, but the core of the nation has never truly been Christian. I feel like this partially explains how some people can see a nation losing its religion as others see it only digging itself further inwards. Really, this makes sense: someone who's a devout Christian will be acutely tuned to anything which is against their beliefs, and from my perspective the more "Christian" a person is, the less they see others as so (this obv sounds conceited but trust me when i say this is overwhelmingly true). Conversely, someone who's been disillusioned from Christianity and holds a negative perspective on it is going to have problems when their beliefs are on the line.

Adding to all this, religion (and lack thereof) has been found to be the #1 thing people tend to identify with the most, and with the greatest passion. I sadly am basing this mostly off of memory from a class I took, but people tend to be much more lax on identifiers like race, gender, nationality, etc. than to religion. This isn't too hard to undersrand; race is already sort of a made-up old world thing people used to gratify themselves. Quick history lesson: "whiteness" as a concept in the US used to exclude Irish people until enough Irish writers asserted themselves as white that the people just assumed they always were. At least it was either the Irish or the Jews, maybe both. Either way, it paints the picture of how race is basically a social construct, even if I'm exaggerating a bit.

Religion often supercedes these other identifiers and becomes the sole thing a person values about themselves. Try to have a person committed to their religious beliefs do something which doesn't conform to said values, and you'll find it extremely hard if not impossible for some. Insult a person's gender or ethnicity and you're bound to face retaliation, but not to the extremes taken with religion. The range of action goes from setting yourself on fire and dying as protest to government persecution all the way over to Charlie Hebdo being attacked because they drew Islam's most sacred prophet.

With all that in mind, it's no shock that religion plays a huge role in American political theatre, as most of the main cultural issues have some connection to biblical teachings. Right now the big three for Christians are abortion, religious freedom, and the entirety of LGBTQ+ related topics. Abortion is pretty straightforward and has lots of fun side-branches like neurodiverse people feeling discriminated against, eugenics, and America once again focusing on the outcome of a problem (unwanted pregnancy) instead of the problem itself (oversexualization, lack of education, lack of responsibility, generally shitty women's rights). Religious freedom is the result of Covid-19 shutting down churches who proceed to complain about left-wing protests being allowed as usual. I could say more but all of the Covid-19 controversy is really stupid and constantly mired by double standards. Look at the Governers of California and New York for examples. The last one is also pretty obvious and is essentially divided into three camps: "gay is morally based," "gay is morally cringe," and "gay is morally cringe but holy shit let people exist for fucking once, do you even know what they've gone through."

I would say that Christianity is on the downward trend right now, in part due to the boomer generation being super unpopular for a variety of reasons, and the political boogeyman that is Donald Trump certainly didn't do any favors after he fractured the Republican Party and accordingly pissed off or radicalized a lot of Christians. In fact this may be the lowest point it's ever had. Historically however this is to be expected: the state of Christianity in the United States has usually be sinusoidal in nature, as there's a reason we had two Great Awakening events. Theologically such a pattern lines up with the events of Judges, where the Israelite's would obey the commands of God until their respective Judge died, after which the people would start doing their own thing until a new Judge was raised up. AFAIK there's no exact time frame for this, the way it's written makes it seem like the moment a Judge died everyone immediately started worshipping Satan or something, but realistically I imagine it was a generational process much like it seems to work today.

I've talked about the United States enough, I think we can all agree that things are sorta depressing over here despite how wealthy we are in comparison to much of the world. I remembered how the OP mentioned persecution and the more general topic of religious extremism. Islam gets the worst of this, I cannot say why because I'm not an expert, probably has something to do with easily misinterpreted doctrine or the Middle East getting exploited by the West and hating everything about them or something. Even then some Islamic terrorist groups are basically just drug and munitions and oil cartels but with the guise of religious brotherhood.

I feel like people aren't aware of the extent of persecution arcoss the world. Western society isn't free from discrimination in both private and public sectors, but it gets REALLY bad in some places. China is one of the worst offenders: I don't think a lot of people know about how badly Christians are persecuted there, but it's serious. More and more churches are becoming underground societies as the government will gladly destroy and detain anything which goes against them. The reason you don't hear about this as much largely comes down to the media outlets you use (partly bias and related issues, partly most media outlets barely mentioning anything global) and China not really wanting people to know. Not to mention how the Muslim Uyghur population has things way worse as they're essentially being ethnically cleansed. Normally secularism/atheism is sort of a "neutralization" of religious practice and, as a political power, tends to not care what religions do so long as it's not, you know, causing problems. I think China serves as a strong reminder that atheism can become just as extreme, when it stops being "not having religious beliefs" and becomes "there shouldn't be religious beliefs."

The main takeaway is that religion and politics are heavily intertwined. There's no motivating factor greater than religious values and their place in society, and politics is all about motivating people to support your cause.

Ffs I spent like 4 hours typing this hopefully it makes some semblance of sense, if not don't worry I never said I wasn't a confusing person
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
The 2nd reason is the main attachment to this thread: the country being so skewed to the right is at least partially a result of Christian influence over the past hundreds of years.
Evangelist christianity wasn't as significant in the first 3/4ths of the 20th century. It seems simple to trace a powerful religious conservative presence in America from the mayflower compact to the present, but it's lazy history writing. There was an active effort to make christianity political in the second half of the 1900's, culminating in what we see today, but it wasn't inevitable. The movement endured because neoliberal policies vacated the state from vast swaths of rural america, leading to private religious organizations stepping in to provide education, healthcare, and social services that were provided through the state during the New Deal policy era. This coincided with the onset of culture wars, as these private organizations used this opportunity to proselytize and propagandize. With progressive politics absent from about 196x-present, neoliberalism ignored or encouraged the formation of radical rightwing christian movements and failed to consider the consequences of the retreat of the state from the social life of most of America.

My point is that it is easy to blame religion, but highly inaccurate. Neoliberal capitalist ideology is what allowed rightwing religious groups to gain power, after religious organizations had significantly retreated from politics in the first 60 years of the 20th century. The right intentionally and successfully activated Evangelicals following the collapse of the new deal.

As for the 'Uyghur Question', I recommend that you do your own research and decide how comparable or not the situation is to the situation with incarceration of minorities in the U.S or the U.S funded ethnic cleansing of Palestine and other Muslim populations. Of course China's coercion of the Uyghurs is condemnable, but is by no means an excuse for, and is increasingly a distraction from, the gross criminality of the West. Interestingly, the oligarchy that pulls the strings in the U.S is highly economically tied to China, including the GOP who's policies are the main cause of 'socialist' China owning piles of U.S debt. Further, the supposed friction, i.e the media talk about a new Cold War, between the U.S and China actually helps to stabilize the nationalist movements in both countries.
 

shnowshner

You've Gotta Try
is a Pre-Contributor
Evangelist christianity wasn't as significant in the first 3/4ths of the 20th century. It seems simple to trace a powerful religious conservative presence in America from the mayflower compact to the present, but it's lazy history writing. There was an active effort to make christianity political in the second half of the 1900's, culminating in what we see today, but it wasn't inevitable. The movement endured because neoliberal policies vacated the state from vast swaths of rural america, leading to private religious organizations stepping in to provide education, healthcare, and social services that were provided through the state during the New Deal policy era. This coincided with the onset of culture wars, as these private organizations used this opportunity to proselytize and propagandize. With progressive politics absent from about 196x-present, neoliberalism ignored or encouraged the formation of radical rightwing christian movements and failed to consider the consequences of the retreat of the state from the social life of most of America.

My point is that it is easy to blame religion, but highly inaccurate. Neoliberal capitalist ideology is what allowed rightwing religious groups to gain power, after religious organizations had significantly retreated from politics in the first 60 years of the 20th century. The right intentionally and successfully activated Evangelicals following the collapse of the new deal.

As for the 'Uyghur Question', I recommend that you do your own research and decide how comparable or not the situation is to the situation with incarceration of minorities in the U.S or the U.S funded ethnic cleansing of Palestine and other Muslim populations. Of course China's coercion of the Uyghurs is condemnable, but is by no means an excuse for, and is increasingly a distraction from, the gross criminality of the West. Interestingly, the oligarchy that pulls the strings in the U.S is highly economically tied to China, including the GOP who's policies are the main cause of 'socialist' China owning piles of U.S debt. Further, the supposed friction, i.e the media talk about a new Cold War, between the U.S and China actually helps to stabilize the nationalist movements in both countries.
Ah so it comes back to Neoliberalism, classic. Thanks for the insight.

FYI I wasn't trying to downplay stuff going on in the west, rather showing that persecution is a very widespread and ironically indiscriminate; i.e. how Christians, a group that, from the Western perspective most of us probably have, is often associated or at least indifferent to the deplorable actions of Western governments and organizations (the oppressors) can just as easily find themselves living in fear of imprisonment or death every day. I singled out China because their government doesn't take kindly to any religion at all, granted said religious institution isn't one of the party's multiple puppets. The point being, that religious persecution is and has always been awful, but I feel people are often not aware of how much further down it goes, because it can be hard to understand that a group/groups which hold a lot of power in one side of the world might be among the most vulnerable on the other side.
 

Mario60866iPod13

Banned deucer.
Regarding politics, I prefer not to get involved with them. I am not democratic or Republican, and I am closest to libertarian if anything.

With religion, I am self-identified as Idealist Catholic. You might also hear this called "Black Catholicism" it's a special type of catholicism where you believe the only two laws in life are to love one another and love God above all else. It's also very anti-discriminatory; I believe in acceptance of the LGBT community and believe very firmly against parents being allowed to control their children's behavior. (Actually I believe it's a mortal sin) my belief in sin is that the only true sin is taking away the rights of another person and every sin is some variation of this.
Regarding heaven, I believe that each person is given their own infinite and personal time and space to experience (literally) anything they want and then after Last Judgment, instead of being placed on a new earth, God opens up a general area of heaven where we can come together outside our personal places but the general area is governed by God. Each of its seven segments is for different things (for example the Fifth heaven is for our unholy favorite things like games and food, but the seventh heaven is the highest of the seven where God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit reside with the Ark of the Covenant.)
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
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Jesus was a radical who kicked greedy merchants out of God's house, and was executed by the state for telling poor people to love thy neighbor and that the weakest and least powerful would inherit the Earth. Why do we Christians focus on foot-note bigotry when there's more important things-- like universal love for humanity?

Hot take:
The teachings lend themselves to creating folks like MLK and Cornel West, and such radicals of democratic and socialist Christianity are the real prophetic voices in line with Jesus' teachings. Can we get some more preaching of Liberation Theology in here?
The hierarchical structure, traditionalism, ingrained authoritarianism of the church and its history of wielding power and tendency to protect existing systems [of oppression] is what makes it act Conservatively, and be susceptible to hijacking by fascists.

But I mean-- this is a point in world history where even the Pope is now a Communist by American standards.

Full text of the Pope's Speech:
https://www.vatican.va/content/fran...1/10/16/videomessaggio-movimentipopolari.html

Best Excerpt:
I ask all the great pharmaceutical laboratories to release the patents. Make a gesture of humanity and allow every country, every people, every human being, to have access to the vaccines. There are countries where only three or four per cent of the inhabitants have been vaccinated.


In the name of God, I ask financial groups and international credit institutions to allow poor countries to assure “the basic needs of their people” and to cancel those debts that so often are contracted against the interests of those same peoples.


In the name of God, I ask the great extractive industries -- mining, oil, forestry, real estate, agribusiness -- to stop destroying forests, wetlands and mountains, to stop polluting rivers and seas, to stop poisoning food and people.


In the name of God, I ask the great food corporations to stop imposing monopolistic systems of production and distribution that inflate prices and end up withholding bread from the hungry.


In the name of God, I ask arms manufacturers and dealers to completely stop their activity, because it foments violence and war, it contributes to those awful geopolitical games which cost millions of lives displaced and millions dead.


In the name of God, I ask the technology giants to stop exploiting human weakness, people’s vulnerability, for the sake of profits without caring about the spread of hate speech, grooming, fake news, conspiracy theories, and political manipulation.


In the name of God, I ask the telecommunications giants to ease access to educational material and connectivity for teachers via the internet so that poor children can be educated even under quarantine.


In the name of God, I ask the media to stop the logic of post-truth, disinformation, defamation, slander and the unhealthy attraction to dirt and scandal, and to contribute to human fraternity and empathy with those who are most deeply damaged.


In the name of God, I call on powerful countries to stop aggression, blockades and unilateral sanctions against any country anywhere on earth. No to neo-colonialism. Conflicts must be resolved in multilateral fora such as the United Nations. We have already seen how unilateral interventions, invasions and occupations end up; even if they are justified by noble motives and fine words.


This system, with its relentless logic of profit, is escaping all human control. It is time to slow the locomotive down, an out-of-control locomotive hurtling towards the abyss. There is still time.

--Based Pope Francis
 
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shnowshner

You've Gotta Try
is a Pre-Contributor
Jesus was a radical who kicked greedy merchants out of God's house, and was executed by the state for telling poor people to love thy neighbor and that the weakest and least powerful would inherit the Earth. Why do we Christians focus on foot-note bigotry when there's more important things-- like universal love for humanity?

Hot take:
The teachings lend themselves to creating folks like MLK and Cornel West, and such radicals of democratic and socialist Christianity are the real prophetic voices in line with Jesus' teachings.
The hierarchical structure, traditionalism, ingrained authoritarianism of the church and its history of wielding power and tendency to protect existing systems [of oppression] is what makes it act Conservatively, and be susceptible to hijacking by fascists.

But I mean-- this is a point in world history where even the Pope is now a Communist by American standards.

Full text of the Pope's Speech:
https://www.vatican.va/content/fran...1/10/16/videomessaggio-movimentipopolari.html

Best Excerpt:
I ask all the great pharmaceutical laboratories to release the patents. Make a gesture of humanity and allow every country, every people, every human being, to have access to the vaccines. There are countries where only three or four per cent of the inhabitants have been vaccinated.


In the name of God, I ask financial groups and international credit institutions to allow poor countries to assure “the basic needs of their people” and to cancel those debts that so often are contracted against the interests of those same peoples.


In the name of God, I ask the great extractive industries -- mining, oil, forestry, real estate, agribusiness -- to stop destroying forests, wetlands and mountains, to stop polluting rivers and seas, to stop poisoning food and people.


In the name of God, I ask the great food corporations to stop imposing monopolistic systems of production and distribution that inflate prices and end up withholding bread from the hungry.


In the name of God, I ask arms manufacturers and dealers to completely stop their activity, because it foments violence and war, it contributes to those awful geopolitical games which cost millions of lives displaced and millions dead.


In the name of God, I ask the technology giants to stop exploiting human weakness, people’s vulnerability, for the sake of profits without caring about the spread of hate speech, grooming, fake news, conspiracy theories, and political manipulation.


In the name of God, I ask the telecommunications giants to ease access to educational material and connectivity for teachers via the internet so that poor children can be educated even under quarantine.


In the name of God, I ask the media to stop the logic of post-truth, disinformation, defamation, slander and the unhealthy attraction to dirt and scandal, and to contribute to human fraternity and empathy with those who are most deeply damaged.


In the name of God, I call on powerful countries to stop aggression, blockades and unilateral sanctions against any country anywhere on earth. No to neo-colonialism. Conflicts must be resolved in multilateral fora such as the United Nations. We have already seen how unilateral interventions, invasions and occupations end up; even if they are justified by noble motives and fine words.


This system, with its relentless logic of profit, is escaping all human control. It is time to slow the locomotive down, an out-of-control locomotive hurtling towards the abyss. There is still time.

--Based Pope Francis
Granted Pope Francis is way more left-leaning than his predecessors AFAIK (sorry not catholic), but the point about Capitalism becoming intertwined with Christianity is definitely true. I swear every service at my church for the past MONTHS have derailed back into socialism and how it's destructive anti-God nature is sweeping the nation. Or like, maybe people are turning to it because of gross economic and sociopolitical inequality? Now I'm not a economist or theologian, personally I think socialism vs. capitalism is like arguing over pineapple on pizza. I think any system can work if people, governments, and other organizations are willing to scrutinize those in power, and the whole economist system is carefully moderated. TL:DR Capitalism isn't so much bad it's just the United States is bad at it. In fact, that's probably the reason for any downfall of social-economic theories, such as with the USSR.

Seems like the bigger problem is how socialism restructures culture and personal identification, which I don't really have enough knowledge on to say anything. Think it's a bit overblown though.

One of my favorite things about the gospels and teaching of Jesus is specifically that he was super radical in his teaching. I feel like Christians today only recognize Jesus because there's a book in front of them saying so. The timeless story of Jesus was that God presented himself in plain sight to humanity and the most religiously educated people of the time were so off on their own teachings and beliefs, they were unable to recognize and proceeded to execute their own God. There's a lot of biblical themes in that one statement, but for sake of time, I do think American Christians are in a similar situation now. We've associated so many things with Christianity that simply aren't relevant or misunderstood, and it appears a lot of right-wing leaders and influential personalities are more than willing to use that to their advantage.
 
With regards to this conversation, it's always important to recognize that religion sacralizes dominant norms and values more than it influences the culture at large. The culture informs the religion more than the religion informs the culture, even if there is interplay.
 
Edit: Regarding Christianity's influence in the US, it's important to clarify it's just Catholic.
Can you expand on this? Do you not think that evangelical Protestantism has influenced the US?
 
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I'll be honest, I wrote all this late on my phone so I left out a lot. It very much does, just not quite the same degree as catholic (which statistically, has more followers and has had more vocal communities in recent history from media and otherwise). I was only thinking in Catholic vs Orthodox cause of my prior irl history with Catholics compared to a comparative lack of Protestant. Me implying it didn't by leaving it out wasn't correct and was irresponsible though.
Yeah I asked because I'm genuinely curious, wasn't trying to detract from your perspective or anything. From what I understand, I feel like I hear and read a lot more about Protestantism/evangelism than I do about Catholicism. Obviously Biden is a Catholic and is the president so that's a lot of political power, but I don't really get the sense that there's a large monolithic Catholic demographic that's directing policy in the US. On the other hand, it feels to me that there's much more connectedness between the Republic party and evangelical Christianity (e.g. the southern US). Your post made me curious about the ways in which you feel Catholicism has directed the direction of the country politically, because that's not something I've really thought about.
 
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