Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[Lord Xen III]

But unless a revenge killer has a trapping ability, switching out is always an option though for the opponent.

Ofc as already mentioned regieleki flaw is that it has very poor defensive utility so it's not consistently detering threats from setting up or getting kills or massive chip damage on the pivots that regieleki needs to get in.


But as a revenge killer its doing its job fine.

Regieleki however is not able to make progress consistently with the various viable electric immunities, however it's still able to consistently function as speed control and provides solid removal given its able to force grounds to switch In a lot.


I'm not sure that it needs a rise though. As previously mentioned we have more grounds back in the tier.


But I'm also unsure because there is not much in B that regieleki can be directly compared to as a point of reference.

The most similar mon to it is excadrill in that excadrill is a spinner that doubles as speed control but excadrill actually has decent defensive utility and also hits like a truck after an SD. But that's why Drill is in A- anyway and why regieleki is where it's at.

 

[GourdsProtector]

My point was the sweeper wouldn't be on the field anymore.

And how will that benefit you? I mean, losing now or losing later - you're still losing regardless...

 

[JoeMama]

And how will that benefit you? I mean, losing now or losing later - you're still losing regardless...

If it switched out it hasnt hit leki so leki can just beat the sweeper later

 

[NeonJolteonWasUsed]

C+ -> C-

Seeing as Regieleki is the hot topic of the week, and I've been meaning to do this nom for a while, I'll drop my two cents.

I love the Regis, I really do, they're some of my favorite all time legendaries, but I couldn't disagree more with the notion of Regieleki being good.
It just has absolutely nothing going for it right now outside of extremely fringe utility in Rapid Spin, or extremely specific offense structures, as anything else it tries to do leaves it painfully outclassed.
For example, yes, its higher speed tier allowing to get the jump on Scarf Kartana is enticing, however, most Scarf Kartana users will acknowledge this, and instead of staying in, will just go hard into their Ground, Granted this can be exploited if your opponent is using Lando, and you happen to have Galarian Zapdos, or Bisharp, but that would be assuming you even have Galarian Zapdos or Bisharp in the first place, which is just too fringe of a scenario to justify instead of just using a better revenge killer.
Offensively as a wallbreaker, it's almost entirely worthless, providing absolutely nothing other wallbreakers don't already, with the added downside of being totally stonewalled by any Ground type just existing in their immediate victinity, and even if you were to go through all the effort of removing their ground as early as possible just for Regieleki to have an impact. Oppertunity cost becomes its own entirely new issue, where It would've been far easier to just use Tapu Koko, and pressure their Ground with repeated Dazzling Gleams and U-Turns.

Even as a Screens Setter, its original only tangible niche, it's starting to get outclassed in, by not one, but two Screens leads in Tapu Koko, and Alolan Ninetales, who can each bring their own unique utility to a team Regieleki fails to provide itself.
Tapu Koko can provide electric terrain, to potentially enable a very dangerous Hawlucha, and thanks to U-Turn, Tapu Koko is not required to sacrifice itself to keep up the team's momentum, letting it set up terrain and screens sometimes multiple times a game, on top of Taunt preventing hazards from ever going up, due to its excellent speed tier outpacing a majority of stealth rock users.
Alolan Ninetales provides both Light Screen, and Reflect in one fell swoop with Aurora Veil, which saves a ton of time for such offensive teams, on top of its ability to enable the deadly Arctozolt to clean late game, Alolan Ninetales also provides Encore, or even Hypnosis to bring in its teammates safely, and again, like Koko, thanks to this, can set up Screens and Hail multiple times per game.
Now, with all that said. What does Regieleki provide?
Rapid Spin
that's about it.
Now, this sounds great! On paper...in Practice, Regieleki's speed tier unfortunately works against it as a Spinning Screens lead. As often the opponent will be able to underspeed Eleki, and set up rocks again on the same turn they spin, or even worse, Regieleki can be totally shut down by the opponent putting their rocks up, and then immediately going to their ghost type on the Rapid Spin. Meaning Regieleki will have gotten screens up, and absolutely else, while getting those screens up is good, you would've much rather preferred to have used Tapu Koko, who could taunt them before they could set up rocks, or use Alolan Ninetales, who can Encore on their Stealth Rock Turn, and send something in to use it as setup fodder, while still getting screens up. Which makes both of them already provide miles more consistent utility outside of setting screens than Regieleki could.

I just don't see the arguement when it comes to Regieleki. It provides nothing other perfectly viable Pokémon don't already, while requiring comical amounts of team support just to have it do its thing. The ubiquity of its total counters don't do it any favors either. Regieleki just finds itself outclassed at every turn, at everything it wants to try and do. If anything I'd argue Regieleki should drop a couple ranks rather than rise like the top posts are saying.

Anyway thanks for coming to my Ted Talk about why being a Regi fan hurts like a thousand needles. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go cry myself to sleep because GF Refuses to make an OU Viable Regi.

 

[Smashburn]

Aside from the above post, please try to keep small conversation to a minimum. Multiple small posts flood the forum, and the Conversations tab exists for a reason if you have any disputes.

C+ -> C

On the subject of Regieleki, I'm personally in favor of a drop. Recent trends have made it more difficult to facilitate it during an average match, and what it brings to the table over other 'mons that fill a similar role is subpar to say the least I agree. However, I would like to clarify that Regieleki's staying niche isn't just Screens or Rapid Spin individually: the speed control it offers as a fast pivot fits on certain offenses is what solidifies a spot in the meta. Regieleki isn't entirely worthless as a breaker either, it still puts enough on the table to be terrifying when positioned correctly. This isn't to say Regieleki won't have its shortcomings, but I think downplaying it entirely to something like C- or even UR beats a little too hard.

 

[BT89]

you guys.


C+ -> C+

I see little reason to change Regieleki’s placement on the viability ranking right now. I still find that it works very well as one of the more reliable entry hazard removers as well as a rather dangerous speed control option. Sure, the variance in grounds in the current meta isn’t exactly doing it any favors, but I feel that C- or UR is a definitive underestimation and a rather mean placement for Regieleki.

Eleki is much more of a team player than an individual threat or breaker. Luring Ground-types is a rather good thing, as forcing in a ground can be capitalized on quite well by a team mate, like Zapdos-G or even something like a Choice Band Weavile or Nidoking. Sure, it is the exact opposite of splashable, but nothing in the C-ranks is truly splashable anyways.

Also Screens sucks, don’t argue that it is why Eleki is bad lol, the only set is HDB Rapid Spin. That set is rather solid though, able to continuously wear down teams that rely on Lando as their ground still, and is rather potent as a cleaner if given a solid opportunity. I know, “but you can say that about any mon!”, but in this case, the opportunity is way easier than a legitimately unviable or even a C- Pokemon. The “ridiculous” amount of support it needs is really just a good answer to the grounds, which every half decent team will have naturally.

Yes, Regieleki is very flawed, but so is every Pokemon in the C+ rank, i.e. Dracozolt’s horrendous inconsistency into Landorus-T and Hippowdon teams, Mandibuzz often being too overrelied on to check too many threats, Swampert being outclassed as a Stealth Rock setter, etc. But Regieleki’s upsides are still rather major and warrant it staying in C+.

 

[Lord Xen III]

you guys.


C+ -> C+

I see little reason to change Regieleki’s placement on the viability ranking right now. I still find that it works very well as one of the more reliable entry hazard removers as well as a rather dangerous speed control option. Sure, the variance in grounds in the current meta isn’t exactly doing it any favors, but I feel that C- or UR is a definitive underestimation and a rather mean placement for Regieleki.

Eleki is much more of a team player than an individual threat or breaker. Luring Ground-types is a rather good thing, as forcing in a ground can be capitalized on quite well by a team mate, like Zapdos-G or even something like a Choice Band Weavile or Nidoking. Sure, it is the exact opposite of splashable, but nothing in the C-ranks is truly splashable anyways.

Also Screens sucks, don’t argue that it is why Eleki is bad lol, the only set is HDB Rapid Spin. That set is rather solid though, able to continuously wear down teams that rely on Lando as their ground still, and is rather potent as a cleaner if given a solid opportunity. I know, “but you can say that about any mon!”, but in this case, the opportunity is way easier than a legitimately unviable or even a C- Pokemon. The “ridiculous” amount of support it needs is really just a good answer to the grounds, which every half decent team will have naturally.

Yes, Regieleki is very flawed, but so is every Pokemon in the C+ rank, i.e. Dracozolt’s horrendous inconsistency into Landorus-T and Hippowdon teams, Mandibuzz often being too overrelied on to check too many threats, Swampert being outclassed as a Stealth Rock setter, etc. But Regieleki’s upsides are still rather major and warrant it staying in C+.

I agree with this, though if there is any argument at all for leki dropping to C it's because of the resurgence of grounds with reliable recovery, namely gastro and to a lesser extent hippo.


Chomp, lando and zeraora can be chipped over time since they almost never run things like rest , which means eleki plus Future Sight and/or hazard support can break through them over time.


But when the ground can now also just click recover, eleki's progress making is stunted even further since its unable to chip almost all of the electric immunities, as it lacks both coverage and u-turn like koko does.

 

[Smashburn]

I agree with this, though if there is any argument at all for leki dropping to C it's because of the resurgence of grounds with reliable recovery, namely gastro and to a lesser extent hippo.


Chomp, lando and zeraora can be chipped over time since they almost never run things like rest , which means eleki plus Future Sight and/or hazard support can break through them over time.


But when the ground can now also just click recover, eleki's progress making is stunted even further since its unable to chip almost all of the electric immunities, as it lacks both coverage and u-turn like koko does.

In addition to the use of Gastrodon and to some extent Hippowdon and Blissey, Excadrill and Tyranitar have also been trending which impacts Eleki. Now, that doesn't entirely remove Eleki's efficiency as part of a team, but it means it gets less value on average. Another part of the reason I think Regieleki is less deserving of C+, but I also think the same of a few of the other C+ 'mons as well.

 

[Magcargo]

Also Screens sucks, don’t argue that it is why Eleki is bad lol, the only set is HDB Rapid Spin. That set is rather solid though, able to continuously wear down teams that rely on Lando as their ground still, and is rather potent as a cleaner if given a solid opportunity. I know, “but you can say that about any mon!”, but in this case, the opportunity is way easier than a legitimately unviable or even a C- Pokemon. The “ridiculous” amount of support it needs is really just a good answer to the grounds, which every half decent team will have naturally.

I agree. In every single game that I've played where the opponent had a Regieleki, they always ran an offensive set, not the dual screens set. And the offensive set was always the most threatening since it always leads to a to telegraphed switch into Landorus-Therian or another Ground-type, which the opponent would capitalize on. I do not have experience using or facing the Dual Screens set, but it seems bad to me because it doesn't run any STAB to threaten defoggers like Tornadus-Therian or Corviknight and sacrifices Regieleki's main threat factor, which its ridiculous speed and power. I would appreciate it if a higher level player explained to me why this set is considered Regieleki's only "viable" set since I do not see its advantages over other Dual Screen users like Ninetales or Tapu Koko.

As for Regieleki itself, I see it as a somewhat match-up fish Pokemon similar to Blastoise. That being said, I'd argue Blastoise itself is a bit low since it quite an effective cleaner if preserved well throughout the match. You need to keep it in the back of your mind against some teams, because revenge killing (barring Rillaboom Grassy-Glide) it is not an option like it is against other Waters. Either moving Regieleki down or Blastoise up seems appropriate in this case.

 

[Moyashi]

C+ -> C

On the subject of Regieleki, I'm personally in favor of a drop. Recent trends have made it more difficult to facilitate it during an average match, and what it brings to the table over other 'mons that fill a similar role is subpar to say the least I agree. However, I would like to clarify that Regieleki's staying niche isn't just Screens or Rapid Spin individually: the speed control it offers as a fast pivot fits on certain offenses is what solidifies a spot in the meta. Regieleki isn't entirely worthless as a breaker either, it still puts enough on the table to be terrifying when positioned correctly. This isn't to say Regieleki won't have its shortcomings, but I think downplaying it entirely to something like C- or even UR beats a little too hard.

Gonna hop in for a bit to agree with Smashburn. While the resurgence of Gastrodon does it no favors, Hippo seeing some new usage and the continued existence of other grounds, it's not in as favorable of a place as it was. This is enough to drop it to C, but the notion of C- is much too harsh when it still has a place on specific structures. The threat it poses to weakened teams without a healthy ground is still immense, and while Gastrodon is resurging and thus its less likely to be offensively threatening there, the value of its spin is still there.

Plus, the classic "bait ground in and switch to Gapdos" strat still works vs Gastro, which obviously doesn't grant a defiant boost but Gastro can't take banded stabs. The kinds of structures Leki fits on are less common nowadays as they aren't quite as effective, but Leki compresses valuable roles on these types of teams and thus still has a decent, If very specific niche, and thus it shouldn't go lower than C.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Can't wait for the mods to come in and blacklist Regieleki from discussion lol. The thread got derailed again

 

[Smashburn]

Can't wait for the mods to come in and blacklist Regieleki from discussion lol. The thread got derailed again

I don't see any deviation from discussion lol, before it was just Omari being himself again and more people complaining about Weavile. If anything this was an improvement.

 

[Finchinator]

Are Smogon Regieleki ruining the metagame?

 

[odt]

I've quite been happy with the results of running sub + def EVs on boots eleki.
Regieleki @ Heavy-Duty Boots
EVs: 100 Def / 244 SpA / 164 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Substitute
- Rapid Spin
- Electro Ball

0 Atk Ferrothorn Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Regieleki: 65-77 (21.5 - 25.5%) -- 18.8% chance to break a 75HP Sub
244 SpA Transistor Regieleki Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 133-157 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
244 SpA Transistor Regieleki Electro Ball (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 217-256 (80 - 94.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (means you revenge kill LO versions by subbing on the sucker)

Speed is for ScarfKartana +4 extra EVs to guarantee a high power Electroball on Bisharp


Easing predictions and sometimes stalling out toxic/LO dmg has offered a lot more value than Ancient Power did for me. It also prevents easy culls which is great for cleaning after you've made the way for it.

 

[Deleted User 595640]

To make a very inflammatory post, here's a team I made that has both Regieleki and Regidrago that had decent success on ladder. I think they are both bad and unreliable, BUT, they have more than a sliver of viability. Both nearly mandate switches by the opponent, which means they are great for hazard stacking teams and the 'ol breaker double switch. Without those things, you're just banking on the opponent bringing a bad team. but once they are free? Boy oh boy do they clean up. They also happen to make an oddly nice offensive pairing. Regidrago destroys any and all grounds that its electric counterpart might bring in.

Of the two, Regieleki is more viable and has a number of usable and uniquely viable sets, albeit with lots of required support. These cannot be replicated by other pokemon, but they are all super niche.

Regieleki sets

https://pokepast.es/fd60e785a43eecd2

Defog Denying (Regieleki) @ Life Orb
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Serious Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Assurance
- Explosion
- Wild Charge

Keeps hazards up/off vs everything

Specs (Regieleki) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Electro Ball
- Swift
- Ancient Power

Probably the worst and most matchup fishing set there is. Requires tons of support, especially if on electric terrain.

Screens (Regieleki) @ Light Clay
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Rapid Spin / Volt Switch
- Explosion

Physical (Regieleki) @ Life Orb
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 252 Atk / 144 SpA / 112 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Wild Charge
- Volt Switch / Extreme Speed
- Screech
- Explosion

Makes a ground go boom and a blissey go pow. Really bad if your opponent has seen it before. extreme speed kills weaviles from 50% that try to ice shard you.

Toxic Spikes Fiend (Regieleki) @ Leftovers
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 100 Def / 248 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Thunder Cage
- Volt Switch / Rapid Spin

Spread toxic and then this cheeses down a bunch of grounds and grasses. tech straight outta UU.

Rapid Spin (Regieleki) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 60 HP / 36 Def / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Electro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Ancient Power / Explosion

sdt set. It is the speedy thing that doesn't die unless it wants to.

Regieleki up
Rank Regidrago already

Noobs don't grasp the power:

 

[Finchinator]

We are not reverting back to being That Regidrago Thread.

I appreciate your passion and interest Son of Veez, but we have spent pages on this matter and don’t need another sinkhole situation. PM me if you want further elaboration

 

[Deleted User 595640]

OK mr Finchinator i gotchu. no regidrago.

In that case, I would like to talk about the use of Dracozolt, A.K.A., Regielkidrago, as a Choice Banded Hustle Breaker.


Zekrom Jr. (Dracozolt) @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Fire Fang
- Outrage
- Earthquake

What's it do?

• An electric type that OHKOs Ground Types. Wow.
• Loses you the game 20% of the time. Wow
• Comes in on: Zapdos, MONKE, Birds, Water things
• With all landorus being SpD and slow, they think dracozolt is an easy switch in. nop.
• I have tried some life orb sets too, which ruins lando-water-steel cores, but you die really fast if they have contact punish. something to explore i think.

Prove It

Bolt Beak
one does not simply switch into bolt beak
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 418-493 (94.3 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 309-365 (90.6 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

You can't wall it w/ bulk.
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole in Electric Terrain: 423-498 (101.1 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Outrage

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 292-345 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 349-412 (83 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not showing garchomp or that slug thing.

Earthquake for Def Heatran

Firefang for ferrothorn and nerds who use shedinja:
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 348-412 (98.8 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

(P.S. this team also has Regidrago)


Replays
putting in WORK vs stall
Stall gives up
breakin stuff
breakin stuff 2

Dracozolt to B-. it's only ranked for the sand rush sets, which should be C- rn. too many fat grounds for that nonsense.

 

[Baloor]

OK mr Finchinator i gotchu. no regidrago.

In that case, I would like to talk about the use of Dracozolt, A.K.A., Regielkidrago, as a Choice Banded Hustle Breaker.


Zekrom Jr. (Dracozolt) @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Fire Fang
- Outrage
- Earthquake

What's it do?

• An electric type that OHKOs Ground Types. Wow.
• Loses you the game 20% of the time. Wow
• Comes in on: Zapdos, MONKE, Birds, Water things
• With all landorus being SpD and slow, they think dracozolt is an easy switch in. nop.
• I have tried some life orb sets too, which ruins lando-water-steel cores, but you die really fast if they have contact punish. something to explore i think.

Prove It

Bolt Beak
one does not simply switch into bolt beak
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 418-493 (94.3 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 309-365 (90.6 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

You can't wall it w/ bulk.
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole in Electric Terrain: 423-498 (101.1 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Outrage

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 292-345 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 349-412 (83 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not showing garchomp or that slug thing.

Earthquake for Def Heatran

Firefang for ferrothorn and nerds who use shedinja:
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 348-412 (98.8 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

(P.S. this team also has Regidrago)


Replays
putting in WORK vs stall
Stall gives up
breakin stuff
breakin stuff 2

Sir this is the vr. General meta analysis and exploration type posts like this are more relevant to the metagame discussion thread. Editing this post to be more of a “why dracozolt should rise” than a “here’s what my dracozolt set does” will make it fit better here.

 

[agentkeval]

nah hol up whats terrakion, bulu, and eleki doing all the way down there x.x
bro rilla is mad low too

C -> C+/B- (ion care just raise it a level or two)
this mon is crazy bruh. extremely strong breaker with sd or band, and can deal massive amounts of damage once in. its got a nice speed tier n beats half the meta. thats all i gotta say bruh

C+ -> B/B+
this thing got many names. hella horn leech, rain destroyer, sd + click buttons, and many more. its a demon of a mon. literally doesnt die and beats so many of the common archetypes u see right now (rain, sand, fat, sometimes bo). sub sd, sd 3a, band, and even scarf are all insanely good.

B+ -> A-
same reasoning as bulu's. it is basically the same mon but less bulky and has priority, making it better vs offensiver teams, but also v good vs rain, sand, and sometimes BO/fat.

C+ -> B-/B
fun fact - i had a hard time spelling this mons name! anyways, i would like to nom this mon cuz of a set i've been liking: sub tect trapper. u got lando or chomp to toxic the grounds, cuz ofc, who doesnt like a good lando lando interaction in the first 10 turns! after grounds r toxiced eleki subs, tects, and does its shit. good set, good mon. also, its insane endgame imo, just due to its speed being faster than 99% of the tier's scarfers.

 

[Baloor]

POST WORLD CUP OF LOOR VR CHANGES (HUGE) (BIG OPINION WARNING)

RISES

A- -> A
this shouldve rose last slate but since then it only proven itself even more since. every game this guy was in during world cup, he went over time. crazy utility, crazy coverage, crazy win con. see luthiers game vs that italian guy which basically explains everything.

A- -> A
swiss army knife of OU. basically does anything you want it to do. insane winrate in wcop (mostly on that ferro spikes team). everybody kinda knows what tini does blah blah utility blah blah good typing and bulk but I want to just mention what changed on why it should rise. taunt tini on spikes is terrifying. it can force a ton of chip then just deny recovery. Encore is equally as good but i think the introduction of people using taunt is what makes tini more of a threat than its been. also the lesser used band set can just blow up a ton of teams as well.

A- -> A
this is kind of a more personal opinion rather than a general reflection of the meta i guess. clowns winrate in in wcop is kinda not good but i find the rise in scarf sets make this mon even more scary than it was before. considering your counterplay vs scarf and specs is completely different if you dont have a ttar, the guessing game blace can force can be a headache in your attempt to not get snowballed. having the strongest sball in the tier is nothing to laugh as this tier has been heavily defined by not losing to sball since the beginning, no matter how good or bad the ghosts got. trick makes the mon decently effective vs fat (though id still not heavily rely on him too much and bring something in back for guys like blissey). specs hits everything insanely strong and scarf can just flat-out win sometimes. the best counterplay is obviously rocks but with optimal play, even with rocks up, you can still maximize the value you get out of the turns blace comes in.

B+ -> A-
bulky sets on balance plagued the pools stages of wcop. rillaboom is able to keep up excellent late game pressure against more offensive builds by just existing and bulky sets seemingly never die. LO sets are still pretty scary to face on HO. while the hype for monke is slowing down, I dont see why it shouldnt rise at the moment if we matchup-y mons in A- already while its significantly better than anything in B+. i predict this guy to just be a trend that lasts a little past OLT like gastro but heym theyre fun mons! worldest fakest water resist though

B -> B+
found its way on to several spikes and balance builds to good success. being a steel thats not super afraid of zone at the jump is pretty good, soft checking a ton of top threats as well. offers a ton of utility, sd sets having a ton of coverage and defog sets being, well defog. i wouldnt slap this on a team and call your mu vs stuff like lele and weav fine and would prob recommended stacking checks to these guys but at the moment scizor being able to soft check so much is decently helpful.

B -> B+
mu chicken is getting some decent mu fishes rn

B -> B+
another mon that found itself on a ton of spike stacks and clef balances. this guy is basically a less cool gastro but can get the job done nonetheless. the ground typing is obviously very valuable and having one that can recover is insanely annoying. solidifies its niche over gastro by having sand stream which can be good for fat builds to help wear down the other team, resetting weather can be very good too.

B -> B+
i said earlier I wasnt a fan of this mon but im basically rising all the guys you see on skarm fats sooooo we might as well rise him.

B -> B+
scary rain guy, adapted to the gastro meta and washtom meta with pwhip. frog is a threat.

B- -> B
now scratch everything i said about the skarm fats builds bc they lose to crawdaunt in rain

C+ -> B-
we've seen some weakness policy stuff as well as some utility stuff lately for rachi. while its wcop winrate is horse shit, i think its niche is on the level of some the stuff im putting in B-.

C+ - B-

I think zolt is worse than excadrill for sure but zolt is actually not bad as a mu fish sometimes. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-634574 see this world cup game where suapah got the exact type of mu im talking about. BO teams with ground lando/chomp is where this thing thrives. its decently bulky and its typing isnt bad either. functions fine as a C+ mon.

i said this before but i wanna take a jab at getting this in b-. zolt doesnt like the rise of grounds with recovery but can absolutely farm teams that lack those guys. people cite spdef lando as a issue for him, however, theres a couple reasons why this isnt that huge of a problem atm. lando is not usually running max hp max spdef atm, a lot of them are running speed or mixed defenses which makes chipping lando a lot easier. sand also has a ton of options to abuse lando mus that can go in zolts favor. you can also run jank shit like toxic to put lando on even more of a timer. I really like using this guy atm and he can smash a ton of bo and offense builds given the right positioning.

UR -> C- !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-637120 we got lucky

DROPS

A -> A-
heavily underperformed in wcop. a bit too passive outside of future sight and lots of offensive teams can take advantage of it. needs to run some spdef in its spread to perform consistently as a water resist but the drop in physdef makes it less good vs other none water typed physical threats. neither of the twins should drop below A- as regen water pivots are still super good in general. just this is more reflective of bros current state.

B+ -> B
increase of zap, koko, skarms have not been nice to him. also increase of other grounds that are not lando kinda throw gzaps original gameplan for a loop. lots of pokemon that can outpressure it at the moment and gets worn down pretty fast. still a strong breaker but B+ is too generous.

B -> B-
still a fun mon but very inconsistent as a wincon. has a hard time finding set up opportunities, and even when it does its dealt with pretty easily. fatter sets are being used that dont have agility and go for like rest/taunt stuff, which are cool. but very mu fishy and outclassed by other fat breakers that we have in tier. being a dark type wincon is still okay in sball go haha meta but has a hard time positioning itself by anybody who is not mimikyu stardust or storm zone.

B -> B-
i was indifferent before but after some testing i have a opinion. mews current fat set is not good. literally checks nothing and just exists to set spikes i guess? cosmic cheese will always farm certain teams but people with brains have figured their way around it now. mews current gameplan is just very inconsistent and is more in line with my vision of B-. if people experiment with more offense sets that are not cosmic power than maybe id even consider rising it but as it stands, mew is not very good right now.

C+ -> C
rise of ground types with recovery makes this things mu fish even worse than it was already. a lot of people convinced this is good have never seen a gastro in their life. the mon still farms bad ladder players but in tours hes been dead for a long time, even before the recovery ground type rise. despite being the naturally fastest mon in the meta, leki still somehow gets pressured into taking chip a lot of the time as well. its just not worth a team slot.

C+ -> C
nobody is using heater but skypenguin and its worse with gastro and hippo on the come up

C+ -> C
yes this again. insanely passive, cant even properly check what its meant to outside of like kart i guess. you can take advantage of how passive this is very easily. knocking it makes it basically useless. literally nobody uses this in tours and its only used on ladder by a certain somebody and people using their teams for fun.

C+ -> C-
i said leki was not worth a team slot, well this guy straight up terrible. functionally outclassed by lando in every way and the slug is the better water/ground in this meta. only niche has is as a tran check but with no recovery other than rest, literally use ANYTHING else. this one hurts me because mudkip is my favorite mon

might edit this if i think of anything else

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

C- -> C

I feel like the meta trends are somewhat in Glastrier's favour... Slowbro isn't doing too hot right now, Dragonite is better than ever, Hippo and Bulu are rising in usage. These are all Pokemon that Glastrier can take advantage of, due to its massive bulk and access to Substitute. Besides that, Glastrier has the interesting ability to exploit many balance structures with a SubSD set, as many of their pokemon do not invest in speed and ice+ground is still an insane combo that allows Glastrier in combination with Substitute to beat Galar Slowking and many Heatran variants as well as exploit choiced Victini. Its adamant sets outspeed Clef and Ttar. Glastrier can usually 1v1 Corvi and Skarmory if they lack Iron Defense, and Ferrothorn if it lacks Gyro Ball.

I feel like Glastrier isn't the kind of pokemon that can only be used on trick room teams - I've used it on a Lele + Shifu structure and found that it can take advantage of Future Sight pretty well to secure a win against Clefable and Toxapex. It should move up, I think the meta is pretty kind towards it now.

You can even use Close Combat to beat Melm if you wish to

 

[Baloor]

View attachment 442139 C- -> C

I feel like the meta trends are somewhat in Glastrier's favour... Slowbro isn't doing too hot right now, Dragonite is better than ever, Hippo and Bulu are rising in usage. These are all Pokemon that Glastrier can take advantage of, due to its massive bulk and access to Substitute. Besides that, Glastrier has the interesting ability to exploit many balance structures with a SubSD set, as many of their pokemon do not invest in speed and ice+ground is still an insane combo that allows Glastrier in combination with Substitute to beat Galar Slowking and many Heatran variants as well as exploit choiced Victini. Its adamant sets outspeed Clef and Ttar. Glastrier can usually 1v1 Corvi and Skarmory if they lack Iron Defense, and Ferrothorn if it lacks Gyro Ball.

I feel like Glastrier isn't the kind of pokemon that can only be used on trick room teams - I've used it on a Lele + Shifu structure and found that it can take advantage of Future Sight pretty well to secure a win against Clefable and Toxapex. It should move up, I think the meta is pretty kind towards it now.

You can even use Close Combat to beat Melm if you wish to

im on record on saying this mon is hot shit before but I actually agree with the slight rise. It’s had some okay enough tournament showings and constantly plagues ladder. Current trends are kind to it for the most part so I do think C is a more suitable rank for this guy for the time being. Don’t get me wrong he’s still pretty bad but there’s some good mus he can take advantage of that make him slightly better than a ton of the C- mons and more in line with the Sun duo in terms of viability.

 

[Ctann]

I am very curious why Regieleki is even being seriously discussed as a viable Pokémon in OU.

it’s a major threat with speed + damage output, I’d give it that..

but no one has figured out how to force damage on the grounds that check it, at least not yet.

And unfortunately, it can’t do it itself.

I’d love to see stats on what percentage of teams in the 1800+ range are using either a ground type or an electric immunity.

My guess: over 90%

so usually, this means at best, your eleki will be blindly checked by a ground, which is kept at 50% or better HP until the end of the match. You try to double switch to get advantageous matchups.. but what if that is predicted?

so you’re relying on luck/reading the play… to have some sort of semblance of success?

Eleki is great on paper, not great in practice, due to the prominence of immunities, and it’s inability to do anything. It’s so easy to pressure back an eleki team when it’s an effective 5v6 because your opponent needs to predict in order to 1. Get eleki in and 2. Double switch to get an advantageous matchup

—

there’s legitimately great Pokémon with a unique OU niche like being rated as similar to eleki?!?

here’s an example of why Bulu is so much more relevant to OU:

- checks major threats like urshifu and garchomp
- can use a bulk up set to sweep entire teams lacking a poison type
- can use swords dance set to lure birds and ko
- supports teams with terrain, enabling pivots to have an easier time finding an advantageous matchup
- can actually threaten ALL of its switchins, except physical defense glowking. That’s literally 1 switchin it can never touch. The rest can be either:

a. chipped and then either give up a momentum turn whilst recovering HP or switch out sub 70% HP

b. Get surprised due to guessing wrong set , such as corviknight coming in on a bulk up set, and suddenly Bulu gets a free opportunity for +2 def, and your Corv U turns out to Kartana , which can no longer KO and has to sack itself to get Bulu into sub 50% range and deny it the horn leech recovery, because if you had used your Weavile instead, Bulu would recover back the damage from triple axel

c. Trade hits, and suddenly your check to Bulu can now be overwhelmed by the Bulu partner, such as Kartana or melmetal, which might share similar checks.

d. Bulu can switch out into a pivot that appreciates the terrain, such as Tyranitar, heatran, Kartana or glowking. These can take advantage of most of bulus common switchins (flying, poison, and buzzwole users in this example)

—



Eleki has nothing going for it in the utility department. It is just a threat in team preview that tells the opponent “preserve your electric immunity until eleki faints”. Even rapid spin isn’t true utility.. because the opponent will often predict it and just OHKO back on that turn instead of switching out.

 

[Negative Charge]

Can we blacklist regeleki please brother in christ make it stop. its viability does not change and will not change barring a movepool refresh in Gen 9

 

[Endrism]

there’s legitimately great Pokémon with a unique OU niche like being rated as similar to eleki?!?

here’s an example of why Bulu is so much more relevant to OU:

- checks major threats like urshifu and garchomp
- can use a bulk up set to sweep entire teams lacking a poison type
- can use swords dance set to lure birds and ko
- supports teams with terrain, enabling pivots to have an easier time finding an advantageous matchup
- can actually threaten ALL of its switchins, except physical defense glowking. That’s literally 1 switchin it can never touch. The rest can be either:

I'm gonna use this as a fantastic segway to get away from Eleki because I ABSOLUTELY agree with this point.

C+ > B-/B.

Through my experimentation with SubSeedPunch Bulu + BandTar, I believe C+ is CRIMINAL for Bulu. Its defensive utility allows it to forget about offensive SD sets that Rilla likes to use, and instead opt for a SubSeed approach. (Now I'm not saying the Focus Punch is required, it's funny as hell, but CC would prolly be better in most scenarios.) Anything that would normally check Bulu gets majorly inconvenienced by Substitute with the exception of Infiltrator Pult. Zapdos that want to outspeed and KO with Hurricane? Sorry bud you'll have to break the sub, taking a leech seed in the process just to watch Bulu swap out next turn. Heatran want to KO? CC/Focus Punch behind Sub will ruin your entire day bucko. Any stall mon trying to status you to nerf the Bulu? Sorry I'm already behind sub, and you'll have to break that if you want any chance, and I can't guarantee that I wont just put the sub back up because I just recover so much health from Leech Seed + Leftovers + Grassy Terrain + Horn Leech.

And even if you wanted to run offensive, Bulu has some very good coverage to deter checks from coming in. Close Combat, Horn Leech, Stone Edge, Megahorn, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower, Zen Headbutt, Wood Hammer, and Superpower. All fantastic moves that Bulu can use to handle different things. It also has great utility moves like Roar/Whirlwind, Toxic, Taunt, Synthesis, the aforementioned Leech Seed and Substitute, and even oddball picks like Disable and Screens. Setup moves Swords Dance and Bulk Up also bring some big help to the table.

Here's my funny SubSeedPunch set, but you can absolutely swap out Focus Punch for CC if you don't want to use the Focus Punch:

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 132 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Focus Punch / Close Combat
- Horn Leech

124 Atk OHKO's Offensive Heatran with Focus Punch after rocks chip, and 132+ SpDef lives 2 Shadow Balls from Specs Pult after rocks chip. I highly recommend giving Bulu more love than it gets, because I personally consider it on par with Boom, but trying to get it up to B+ immediately wouldn't be agreed on, so a push into the lower Bs is what I'm aiming for.