Metagame np: SV DOU Stage 0: Start Over | Flutter Mane, Tatsugiri Quickbanned

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Arcticblast

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Hey, look at me! I'm playing current gen again! I haven't done that since Isle of Armor!

This meta is a lot of fun. I love it when you can have hyper aggressive teams and super bulky teams in the same space, and boy does this meta deliver--on one hand, Chi-Yu Flutter sun is super aggressive and hard to handle, and on the extreme other end you have stuff like Garganacl and Ting-Lu that make you absolutely fight to break through them. I really have no idea how to teambuild yet so I've just been building the same old goodstuff teams that I've always played, and it seems like it's working out okay for now. My favorite stuff I've put on teams so far: Tera Normal CB Dragonite, Chien-Pao, Glimmora, Tinkaton (I don't care if it's not good, I WILL use it)

I agree with getting rid of Shadow Tag. It's not impossible to play around by any means, but I can see this meta settling in a pretty fast-paced state for a long time, and Shadow Tag can do a lot of damage in that environment, so I think for game health reasons it can go. I think Tera is super cool; it makes games play out in a way we've never seen before and it feels fresh. The game has only been out for a week, but so far I haven't seen anything that would make me dislike the mechanic, and unlike Dynamax, reading someone's Tera activation actually feels super satisfying.

I think some of the new items are pretty messed up, but that feels like a "we'll get to it later" deal.
 
Having seen the discourse on the general meta trends, I wanted to type up a preliminary role compendium to help players find Pokemon that fulfill each of the main roles in the current DOU meta. This is by no means a comprehensive list, so I’d appreciate feedback and input on adding Pokemon and roles. Further, the distinction between Common and Uncommon users in this compendium is highly subject to change since we’re still in the early stages of the meta, so please let me know if you think anything should move between common and uncommon (and let me know why). As a side note, I've used Pikalytics' usage stats, the SS Role Compendium, and my own experience on the ladder to determine which roles/moves to include here.


Speed Control

Tailwind: (Common) :roaring-moon: :salamence: :iron-jugulis: (Uncommon) :pelipper: :hydreigon: :kilowattrel: :talonflame: :murkrow: :dragonite: :volcarona: :scizor:
  • Notes: Murkrow is the only Tailwind user with Prankster.
Icy Wind: (Common) :flutter-mane: :iron-bundle: (Uncommon) :chien-pao: :gyarados: :gastrodon: :abomasnow: :tatsugiri:
  • Notes: Seemingly no usage for Electroweb, but Ampharos and Magnezone get it.
Trick Room Setters: (Common) :armarouge: :scream-tail: :farigiraf: :gothitelle: (Uncommon) :bronzong: :flutter-mane: :hatterene: :oranguru: :mimikyu:

Trick Room Beneficiaries/Teammates: (Common) :amoonguss: :brute-bonnet: :ting-lu: :torkoal: :iron-hands: :kingambit: :garganacl: (Uncommon) :annihilape: :pincurchin: :dondozo: :indeedee-f:


Terrain & Weather Setters // Beneficiaries

Electric: :pincurchin: // All Quark Drive Pokemon + :bellibolt: :sandy-shocks:
  • Notes: Quark Drive activates in ETerrain, boosting the user’s highest stat by 1.3x (Speed is boosted by 1.5x). Other ETerrain beneficiaries are electric-type attackers.
Psychic: :indeedee-f: // :armarouge: :hatterene:


Sun: :torkoal: // All Protosynthesis Pokemon + :chi-yu: :arcanine: :armarouge: :scovillain: :ceruledge: :iron-moth: :volcarona: :talonflame:
  • Notes: Protosynthesis activates in the Sun, boosting the user’s highest stat by 1.3x (Speed is boosted by 1.5x). Other sun beneficiaries are fire-type attackers and Pokemon with Chlorophyll.

Rain: :pelipper: // :dondozo: :tatsugiri: :iron-bundle: :wo-chien: :iron-jugulis: :gastrodon: :palafin-hero: :barraskewda: :golduck:

Snow: :abomasnow: // :chien-pao: :iron-bundle: :baxcalibur: :cetitan:
  • Notes: Snow now boosts the defense stat of ice-type Pokemon by 50% and no longer does chip damage as of Gen 9.
Sand: (Common) :tyranitar: (Uncommon) :hippowdon: // :houndstone: :ting-lu: :garganacl: :garchomp: :great-tusk: :iron-treads: :glimmora: :iron-thorns: :orthworm:


Utility

Fake Out: (Common) :grimmsnarl: :iron-hands: :tinkaton: :gothitelle: (Uncommon) :raichu: :hariyama:

Redirection: (Common) :amoonguss: :brute-bonnet: :indeedee-f: (Uncommon) :volcarona:
  • Notes: Redirection moves are Rage Powder and Follow Me
Pivot Move: (Common) :grimmsnarl: :scizor: :annihilape: :dragapult: :iron-bundle: :palafin-hero: (Uncommon) :cyclizar: :murkrow: :kilowattrel: :meowscarada: :pelipper: :slither-wing:
  • Notes: Pivot moves referenced here are U-Turn, Volt-Switch, Parting Shot, Flip Turn, and Shed Tail
Healing: (Common) :indeedee-f: :amoonguss: :gothitelle: (Uncommon) :brute-bonnet: :lilligant: :wo-chien:
  • Notes: Healing moves are Heal Pulse and Pollen Puff
Intimidate: (Common) :arcanine: :gyarados: :salamence: (Uncommon) :tauros-paldea-water: :tauros-paldea-fire:

Knock Off: (Uncommon) :great-tusk: :meowscarada: :pelipper: :tinkaton: :grafaiai: :hariyama:

Spore: (Common) :amoonguss: :brute-bonnet: (Uncommon) :toedscruel:

Screens: (Common) :grimmsnarl: (Uncommon) :abomasnow: :scream-tail: :dragapult: :indeedee-f:
  • Notes: Abomasnow gets Aurora Veil alongside Snow Warning
Haze: (Common) :murkrow: (Uncommon) :chien-pao: :palafin-hero:

Phaze: (Common) :ting-lu: (Uncommon) :tyranitar: :hydreigon: :gyarados: :garchomp: :arcanine:
  • Notes: Phazing, or pseudo-hazing, is the removal of stat changes by forcing a switch on an opponent’s Pokemon. Moves included here are Roar, Whirlwind, and Dragon Tail.
Trapping: (Common) :gothitelle: (Uncommon) :dugtrio: :roaring-moon:
  • Notes: bang oth
  • Other Notes: Roaring Moon gets Jaw Lock to trap itself and an opponent
Stat Debuffs: Treasures of Ruin :chi-yu: :chien-pao: :ting-lu: :wo-chien:
  • Notes: Debuffs ally and opponents


Hazards

Stealth Rock: (Common) :tyranitar: :glimmora::ting-lu: (Uncommon) :scream-tail: :hydreigon: :garganacl:

Spikes: (Common) :glimmora::ting-lu: (Uncommon) :garchomp: :iron-thorns: :gastrodon:

Toxic Spikes: (Common) :glimmora: (Uncommon) :toedscruel::pincurchin: :clodsire: :iron-moth:
  • Notes: Glimmora can spread Toxic Spikes using the move or its ability
Sticky Web: (Uncommon) :spidops: :masquerain:


Attackers

Spread Attackers
:
  • Heat Wave: (Common) :chi-yu: :arcanine: :torkoal: :armarouge: (Uncommon) :iron-moth: :volcarona: :skeledirge: :salamence:
  • Earthquake: (Common) :ting-lu: :dondozo: :great-tusk: :garchomp: (Uncommon) :dragonite: :gyarados: :iron-treads: :roaring-moon: :tyranitar: :baxcalibur:
  • Rock Slide: (Common) :tyranitar: :ting-lu: (Uncommon) :iron-hands: :garganacl: :dondozo: :garchomp: :great-tusk: :iron-treads:
  • Snarl: (Common) :chi-yu: :arcanine: (Uncommon) :ting-lu: :wo-chien: :houndstone: :murkrow: :iron-jugulis: :hydreigon: :skeledirge:

Setup Attackers:
  • Calm Mind: (Common) :flutter-mane: :armarouge: (Uncommon) :sylveon: :scream-tail:
  • Nasty Plot: (Common) :gholdengo: :rotom-wash: (Uncommon) :chi-yu: :hydreigon:
  • Quiver Dance: (Common) :volcarona: :lilligant:
  • Dragon Dance: (Common) :roaring-moon: :dragonite: :gyarados: (Uncommon) :tyranitar: :dragapult: :baxcalibur: :salamence:
  • Bulk Up: (Common) :annihilape: :palafin-hero: (Uncommon) :great-tusk: :corviknight: :ceruledge:
  • Swords Dance: (Common) :chien-pao: :tinkaton: :kingambit: :scizor: :garchomp: (Uncommon) :baxcalibur: :ceruledge:
  • Commander: :dondozo: :tatsugiri:
    • Notes: rip bozo
Priority Attackers:
  • Extreme Speed: (Common) :dragonite: :arcanine:
  • Sucker Punch: (Common) :chien-pao: :brute-bonnet: :kingambit: (Uncommon) :grimmsnarl: :meowscarada: :pincurchin:
  • Jet Punch: :palafin-hero:
  • Shadow Sneak: (Common) :ceruledge: :houndstone: (Uncommon) :iron-valiant: :mimikyu:
  • Bullet Punch: (Common) :scizor: (Uncommon) :hariyama:

Terastal Users

Until I gain more experience with the tier, I'd point to this post by PrimRose.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-sv-dou-stage-0-start-over.3710920/post-9411744
 
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Hello again! You may have noticed that I didn't mention Terastallization in my last post while talking about potentially banworthy things in the metagame. The reason being I forgot I felt that the topic deserved it's own post, as I plan to go into a lot of detail here. I don't have much else to say here, let's get into the actual post.

Terastallization is this generation's gimmick, and it allows you to change the type of one of your Pokémon every battle. This gimmick has no inherent drawbacks such as requiring an item slot, and unlike Mega Evolutions and Z Moves, you can Terastallize any of your Pokémon and not just one designated Tera Pokémon. This makes Terastallization similar to Dynamax in the sense that you can use it on different Pokémon depending on what matches up best into your opponent. Its applications are equally diverse, with it being a great offensive and defensive tool. Additionally, you can Terastallize into a type you already have to receive a STAB bonus of 2x. This could be considered unhealthy due to the inherent unpredictability and variance that comes with allowing any Pokémon to be any type. Giving any Pokémon adaptability is also quite a worrying thought considering all of the monstrous offensive powerhouses added this generation. The purpose of this post is to give some of my own opinions on Terastallization and some cool ways I believe it could be used.


Prominent Users


This format has been out for a week at the time of writing this, so it's pretty early to say what the best users of Terastallization are yet, as several applications of it have most likely gone undiscovered at this point in time. Despite this, I'll still take this time to highlight some offensive and defensive uses of Terastallization that stand out to me.

Offensive Uses


Flutter Mane

:xy/flutter mane:

Flutter Mane is by far the most broken offensive user of Terastallization. Being able to Terastallize into a pure Fairy type to power up your already very strong Dazzling Gleams as well as remove your weakness to Ghost-type attacks for the mirror is insane on a Pokémon with Flutter Mane's stats. I don't think Terastallization is the problem here, however. Flutter Mane is an extremely good user of it, but that's moreso because Flutter Mane is broken rather than the gimmick itself being problematic.
Chi-Yu
:xy/chi yu:

Chi-Yu is the only other debatably broken user of Terastallization. Tera fire Heat Wave hits extremely hard, especially when boosted by Torkoal's Drought on the Sun teams it frequently finds itself on. Removing its Dark typing also has some niche defensive applications, like being able to take Fighting-type attacks more easily. Chi-Yu is undeniably an amazing example of an offensive Terastallization user, but Terastallization doesn't fix any of Chi-Yu's flaws as a pokemon, it just boosts it's already insane damage output, which is a common theme with using Terastallization to boost a type you already have.
Dragonite
:xy/dragonite:

Dragonite is my personal favorite offensive use of Terastallization. Tera normal Extreme Speed hits extremely hard for a priority move, making it an insane late game sweeper allowing it to ignore all current speed control active. Dragonite also has great offensive coverage outside of Extreme Speed, making it a great offensive asset overall. You don't even really need to run speed on it because of Extreme Speed's high priority bracket, allowing you to invest more in bulk and allow Dragonite to work in and out of Trick Room. While I personally think this set is amazing, it's not without counterplay. You essentially don't have a tera Pokémon if your opponent has means of blocking priority, and you're giving up your great defensive typing in Flying/Dragon for pure Normal, meaning you also lose your Earthquake immunity.
Brute Bonnet
:xy/Brute Bonnet:

Brute Bonnet is interesting because it's Terastallization options also have utility defensively. There are the obvious options of Grass and Dark to power up it's stabs, but it can also run Tera Fighting. Fighting resists nearly all of it's natural weaknesses and gives you a stronger Close Combat, which is nice in this format because of the amount of Dark-types.
Slither Wing
:xy/slither wing:

Slither Wing has some interesting options for offensive Terastallization. Again, the obvious options of Bug for strong First Impressions and U-Turns and Fighting to power up Close Combat are still there, but it also has more interesting options like Fire on Sun teams to boost Flare Blitz to insane levels and Ghost with Tera Blast, which gives you unresisted Ghost/Fighting coverage (though admittedly at that point you're most likely better off using Annihilape outside of Sun teams)


Defensive Uses

Glimmora

:xy/glimmora:

Glimmora is the premier Hazard Stack Pokémon in SV DOU. It can set hazards without actually having to waste turns setting them with it's ability Toxic Debris. It has a 4x weakness to Ground however, which is a problem in this meta because Earthquake finds itself on nearly every team. Tera Flying can be used to give yourself an Earthquake immunity to not only give yourself a partner to click Earthquake next to, but are also immune to opposing Ground-type attacks, which can catch opponents off guard and allow it to set more layers of Spikes.
Wo Chien
:xy/wo chien:

Wo-Chien is a fairly niche pick in the current meta, but it has it's uses. Specifically Tera Water with Leech Seed. Water doesn't have much synergy with it's original typing of Grass/Dark, Water is just a solid defensive typing that lets it survive longer to click it's support moves. It functions pretty similarly to support Tapu Fini sets from the last generation and fits very nicely on hazard centric teams.
Arcanine
:xy/arcanine:

Arcanine's main defensive Tera options are Water and Grass. Grass is nice to hit Ground, Rock, and Water-types with Tera Blast and also gives you an Earthquake resist. Water also resists or is at least neutral to a lot of Arcanine's natural weaknesses as a pure Fire-type. Water/Fire coverage is also extremely good neutral coverage on most things. Arcanine isn't a Pokémon you want to Terastallize in a lot of matchups, but it's nice that it has such solid options if it does find itself in a situation where it needs to Terastallize for whatever reason.
Gothitelle
:xy/gothitelle:

Gothitelle isn't a Pokémon that you'll see Terastallize very often, but it does have some decent options. Tera Fairy allows Gothitelle to resist most moves that it would otherwise be weak to (other than Ghost-type attacks which become neutral) making it a nice defensive option. Tera Normal is an option that allows it to more easily sponge hits from Flutter Mane, which is very valuable. Gothitelle has some respectable Terastallization options, but you generally don't want to waste Terastallization on a Pokémon as passive as Gothitelle.
Gyarados
:xy/gyarados:

Gyarados's Water/Flying typing synergizes perfectly with Ground type Tera, and has offensive and defensive utility. Defensively, you resist everything that Gyarados would otherwise be weak to, and offensively your Earthquakes hit that much harder, which Dragon Dance sets greatly appreciate. Gyarados is a great candidate for Terastallization in most matchups, and has proven itself to be one of the best uses of the gimmick.

Final Thoughts

As for my full thoughts on Terastallization, I believe it's a good, healthy addition to the meta and adds a new dimension to the game that's really interesting to explore both in teambuilding and gameplay. You could argue that Terastallization causes unnecessary variance due to the fact that any pokemon can become any type, but I don't think this is the case. I would actually argue that Terastallization rewards good, creative teambuilding. If I use Tera Grass Arcanine to beat my opponent's Ting-Lu for example, I not only had to have saved my Terastallization up until that point in order to use it to beat my opponent's Pokémon, but i also had to have intentionally chosen that tera type in the builder to deal with that specific Pokémon while being aware of the opportunity cost that comes with that. Personally, I think that's an extremely healthy and balanced dimension to add to the game. There are some Pokémon that are broken with Terastallization, like Flutter Mane and debatably Chi-Yu, but those Pokémon are largely broken because of outside factors unrelated to Terastallization. Like, Flutter Mane would still be broken regardless of whether or not it could Terastallize. But that's just my opinion, which ultimately probably doesn't really matter, but I thought i would share it anyway. Alright, that's all I have to say, have a damn good day (or night, idk when you're reading this) :D
Wanted to suggest some niche Tera users that help with specific matchups:

tyranitar.gif


Tyranitar has several defensive Tera options, but Tera Steel allows it to completely wall and annihilate Flutter Mane. It removes Tyranitar's weakness to Dazzling Gleam and OHKOs with Heavy Slam. This also boosts your Heavy Slam against targets that Tyran otherwise can't do much to, like Tinkaton, Grimmsnarl behind screens, and a very tiny boost against Garganacl. Unfortunately this involves giving up the SpDef boost from sand, so it's only really worth it if the rest of your team needs Flutter Mane gone.


Garganacl.png



Speaking of Garganacl, Tera Grass turns the tables on would-be Rock type checks like water and ground. Tera-grass helps Garg immensely against Dondozo, Ting-Lu, and Wo-Chien, resisting their STABs and gaining immunity to Leech Seed. It prefers preserving its rock typing (or potentially Tera Water) into sun teams, however.


Roaring Moon.png


Tera Flying Roaring moon was all the rage in the first few days of the meta, and I still think it can be incredibly threatening when you have speed control on your side. Consuming Booster Energy gives you STAB Acrobatics that kills nearly any non-resist. It can also make for a decent partner to an EQ-spamming teammate such as Ting-Lu or Great Tusk. Another Tera type I've seen on Moon is Steel with Iron Head, which seems mostly defensive.

ARmarouge.png


Armarouge is a great check to sun teams thanks to Flash Fire. This means you can use Tera types such as Grass and Steel while retaining Fire immunity. Regular STAB-boosting Tera types are powerful enough on this mon (boosting Expanding force or Heat Wave/Armor Cannon to crazy levels) but Tera Grass removes your Water, Rock, and Ground weaknesses, allowing you to hit them back with a STAB Energy Ball.


These are the main Teras I can think of apart from the ones that you mentioned, and I'm excited to see how the meta changes as players discover more synergies.
 
Having seen the discourse on the general meta trends, I wanted to type up a preliminary role compendium to help players find Pokemon that fulfill each of the main roles in the current DOU meta. This is by no means a comprehensive list, so I’d appreciate feedback and input on adding Pokemon and roles. Further, the distinction between Common and Uncommon users in this compendium is highly subject to change since we’re still in the early stages of the meta, so please let me know if you think anything should move between common and uncommon (and let me know why). As a side note, I've used Pikalytics' usage stats, the SS Role Compendium, and my own experience on the ladder to determine which roles/moves to include here.


Speed Control

Tailwind: (Common) :roaring-moon: :salamence: :iron-jugulis: (Uncommon) :pelipper: :hydreigon: :kilowattrel: :talonflame: :murkrow: :dragonite: :volcarona: :scizor:
  • Notes: Murkrow is the only Tailwind user with Prankster.
Icy Wind: (Common) :flutter-mane: :iron-bundle: (Uncommon) :chien-pao: :gyarados: :gastrodon: :abomasnow: :tatsugiri:
  • Notes: Seemingly no usage for Electroweb, but Ampharos and Magnezone get it.
Trick Room Setters: (Common) :armarouge: :scream-tail: :farigiraf: :gothitelle: (Uncommon) :bronzong: :flutter-mane: :hatterene: :oranguru: :mimikyu:

Trick Room Beneficiaries/Teammates: (Common) :amoonguss: :brute-bonnet: :ting-lu: :torkoal: :iron-hands: :kingambit: :garganacl: (Uncommon) :annihilape: :pincurchin: :dondozo: :indeedee-f:


Terrain & Weather Setters // Beneficiaries

Electric: :pincurchin: // All Quark Drive Pokemon + :bellibolt: :sandy-shocks:
  • Notes: Quark Drive activates in ETerrain, boosting the user’s highest stat by 1.3x (Speed is boosted by 1.5x). Other ETerrain beneficiaries are electric-type attackers.
Psychic: :indeedee-f: // :armarouge: :hatterene:


Sun: :torkoal: // All Protosynthesis Pokemon + :chi-yu: :arcanine: :armarouge: :scovillain: :ceruledge: :iron-moth: :volcarona: :talonflame:
  • Notes: Protosynthesis activates in the Sun, boosting the user’s highest stat by 1.3x (Speed is boosted by 1.5x). Other sun beneficiaries are fire-type attackers and Pokemon with Chlorophyll.

Rain: :pelipper: // :dondozo: :tatsugiri: :iron-bundle: :wo-chien: :iron-jugulis: :gastrodon: :palafin-hero: :barraskewda: :golduck:

Snow: :abomasnow: // :chien-pao: :iron-bundle: :baxcalibur: :cetitan:
  • Notes: Snow now boosts the defense stat of ice-type Pokemon by 50% and no longer does chip damage as of Gen 9.
Sand: (Common) :tyranitar: (Uncommon) :hippowdon: // :houndstone: :ting-lu: :garganacl: :garchomp: :great-tusk: :iron-treads: :glimmora: :iron-thorns: :orthworm:


Utility

Fake Out: (Common) :grimmsnarl: :iron-hands: :tinkaton: :gothitelle: (Uncommon) :raichu: :hariyama:

Redirection: (Common) :amoonguss: :brute-bonnet: :indeedee-f: (Uncommon) :volcarona:
  • Notes: Redirection moves are Rage Powder and Follow Me
Pivot Move: (Common) :grimmsnarl: :scizor: :annihilape: :dragapult: :iron-bundle: :palafin-hero: (Uncommon) :cyclizar: :murkrow: :kilowattrel: :meowscarada: :pelipper: :slither-wing:
  • Notes: Pivot moves referenced here are U-Turn, Volt-Switch, Parting Shot, Flip Turn, and Shed Tail
Healing: (Common) :indeedee-f: :amoonguss: :gothitelle: (Uncommon) :brute-bonnet: :lilligant: :wo-chien:
  • Notes: Healing moves are Heal Pulse and Pollen Puff
Intimidate: (Common) :arcanine: :gyarados: :salamence: (Uncommon) :tauros-paldea-water: :tauros-paldea-fire:

Knock Off: (Uncommon) :great-tusk: :meowscarada: :pelipper: :tinkaton: :grafaiai: :hariyama:

Spore: (Common) :amoonguss: :brute-bonnet: (Uncommon) :toedscruel:

Screens: (Common) :grimmsnarl: (Uncommon) :abomasnow: :scream-tail: :dragapult: :indeedee-f:
  • Notes: Abomasnow gets Aurora Veil alongside Snow Warning
Haze: (Common) :murkrow: (Uncommon) :chien-pao: :palafin-hero:

Phaze: (Common) :ting-lu: (Uncommon) :tyranitar: :hydreigon: :gyarados: :garchomp: :arcanine:
  • Notes: Phazing, or pseudo-hazing, is the removal of stat changes by forcing a switch on an opponent’s Pokemon. Moves included here are Roar, Whirlwind, and Dragon Tail.
Trapping: (Common) :gothitelle: (Uncommon) :dugtrio: :roaring-moon:
  • Notes: bang oth
  • Other Notes: Roaring Moon gets Jaw Lock to trap itself and an opponent
Stat Debuffs: Treasures of Ruin :chi-yu: :chien-pao: :ting-lu: :wo-chien:
  • Notes: Debuffs ally and opponents


Hazards

Stealth Rock: (Common) :tyranitar: :glimmora: (Uncommon) :ting-lu: :scream-tail: :hydreigon: :garganacl:

Spikes: (Common) :glimmora: (Uncommon) :ting-lu: :garchomp: :iron-thorns: :gastrodon:

Toxic Spikes: (Common) :glimmora: :pincurchin: (Uncommon) :toedscruel: :clodsire: :iron-moth:
  • Notes: Glimmora can spread Toxic Spikes using the move or its ability
Sticky Web: (Uncommon) :spidops: :masquerain:


Attackers

Spread Attackers
:
  • Heat Wave: (Common) :chi-yu: :arcanine: :torkoal: :armarouge: (Uncommon) :iron-moth: :volcarona: :skeledirge: :salamence:
  • Earthquake: (Common) :ting-lu: :dondozo: :great-tusk: :garchomp: (Uncommon) :dragonite: :gyarados: :iron-treads: :roaring-moon: :tyranitar: :baxcalibur:
  • Rock Slide: (Common) :tyranitar: :ting-lu: (Uncommon) :iron-hands: :garganacl: :dondozo: :garchomp: :great-tusk: :iron-treads:
  • Snarl: (Common) :chi-yu: :arcanine: (Uncommon) :ting-lu: :wo-chien: :houndstone: :murkrow: :iron-jugulis: :hydreigon: :skeledirge:

Setup Attackers:
  • Dragon Dance: (Common) :roaring-moon: :dragonite: :gyarados: (Uncommon) :tyranitar: :dragapult: :baxcalibur: :salamence:
  • Nasty Plot: (Common) :gholdengo: :rotom-wash: (Uncommon) :chi-yu: :hydreigon:
  • Quiver Dance: (Common) :volcarona: :lilligant:
  • Bulk Up: (Common) :annihilape: :palafin-hero: (Uncommon) :great-tusk: :corviknight: :ceruledge:
  • Swords Dance: (Common) :chien-pao: :tinkaton: :kingambit: :scizor: :garchomp: (Uncommon) :baxcalibur: :ceruledge:
  • Commander: :dondozo: :tatsugiri:
    • Notes: rip bozo
Priority Attackers:
  • Extreme Speed: (Common) :dragonite: :arcanine:
  • Sucker Punch: (Common) :chien-pao: :brute-bonnet: :kingambit: (Uncommon) :grimmsnarl: :meowscarada: :pincurchin:
  • Jet Punch: :palafin-hero:
  • Shadow Sneak: (Common) :ceruledge: :houndstone: (Uncommon) :iron-valiant: :mimikyu:

Terastal Users

Until I gain more experience with the tier, I'd point to this post by PrimRose.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-sv-dou-stage-0-start-over.3710920/post-9411744
Some things that may be overlooked is status conditions. Thunder wave and Will-o-wisp are viable ways to control speed and physical attackers, respectively.

Spore is still a threat and most teams should at least have one viable switch in.

Other things to note is that too few players use Wide Guard and Quick Guard (considering how more people are using priority moves).
 
Seeing as Singles OU has started their discussion on terastilization, where is the doubles community wanting to take it? It feels a lot more balanced in here in my opinion and has much more room for even more creative sets, but there is still potential for it to become problematic. I want to see it stay as I'm having a lot of fun with it, but I also want a healthy meta game.

I don't actually know, was dynamax banned in gen 8 DOU? I only really played VGC, so I am new to this part of Smogon.
 

jeronipuff

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Seeing as Singles OU has started their discussion on terastilization, where is the doubles community wanting to take it? It feels a lot more balanced in here in my opinion and has much more room for even more creative sets, but there is still potential for it to become problematic. I want to see it stay as I'm having a lot of fun with it, but I also want a healthy meta game.

I don't actually know, was dynamax banned in gen 8 DOU? I only really played VGC, so I am new to this part of Smogon.
DMax was banned but not as quickly as it was banned in singles.
 
Some things that may be overlooked is status conditions. Thunder wave and Will-o-wisp are viable ways to control speed and physical attackers, respectively.

Spore is still a threat and most teams should at least have one viable switch in.

Other things to note is that too few players use Wide Guard and Quick Guard (considering how more people are using priority moves).
I agree, I've seen very little usage of T-Wave and Will-O compared to Spore which is why it slipped my mind when making this post. I'll add it in soon. Thanks for the feedback!
 
I feel that Snow or Rain teams with Ice Spinner may be a good anti-meta choice, given the introduction of Protosynthesis and Quark Drive. Unfortunately I don't have enough doubles experience to make a good sample team myself.
 
I feel that Snow or Rain teams with Ice Spinner may be a good anti-meta choice, given the introduction of Protosynthesis and Quark Drive. Unfortunately I don't have enough doubles experience to make a good sample team myself.
On page one, I still have my triple swift swim team and ice spinner on floatzel has been really good on low ladder at least.
 

Actuarily

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The DOU Council has completed the first slate of voting. The results are below:

Shadow Tag: 5/7 Ban votes (71.4%)
Swagger: 0/7 Ban votes (0.00%)

As a result, Shadow Tag is banned!

Swagger will be voted on again in the next round of votes. We will also be keenly listening to discussion on this thread for what new elements should be eligible for quickban in the next round of votes, which is to be completed next Saturday December the 3rd.

Tagging Kris to implement. Thank you!
 
As a result, Shadow Tag is banned!
Ngl, a little surprised. I haven't had to deal with it much, so Idk how much of an issue it has been so far this gen. I guess its nice to not let it get there though, I imagine the council has enough experience to go "Why is this thing allowed back in again? Let's not." Thanks for the update you guys :)
 
Actuarily said:
As a result, Shadow Tag is banned!
Would much rather terastal be banned. Given team preview I feel like it is a much easier to predict how a goth will be used to pin vs trying to predict a terablast of any possible type run on one of six mons. To me it seems that should be the focus of the bans. I would also advocate for banning of flutter mane and inclusion of a sleep clause before worrying about gothitelle as well. Either way, this meta is a disaster at the moment but I am enjoying it. I feel these dex cuts have limited my personal play style and I feel like I don't have the mons to play as streamlined as I'd like, if that makes sense. I also feel like implementing revival blessing might help remedy random tera-4x-effective instakills and the issues that causes, but I would most definitely prefer a ban, having never been a big fan of gimmicks that newer games have implemented.
 
Would much rather terastal be banned. Given team preview I feel like it is a much easier to predict how a goth will be used to pin vs trying to predict a terablast of any possible type run on one of six mons. To me it seems that should be the focus of the bans. I would also advocate for banning of flutter mane and inclusion of a sleep clause before worrying about gothitelle as well. Either way, this meta is a disaster at the moment but I am enjoying it. I feel these dex cuts have limited my personal play style and I feel like I don't have the mons to play as streamlined as I'd like, if that makes sense. I also feel like implementing revival blessing might help remedy random tera-4x-effective instakills and the issues that causes, but I would most definitely prefer a ban, having never been a big fan of gimmicks that newer games have implemented.
This past weekend the focus was on bans that had been implemented in previous metas. I think they wanted to give us more time to experience the new stuff before voting this upcoming weekend. I think then is when they will vote on terastilizing.
I really hope terastilizing doesn't get banned as I'm having a lot of fun with it, but I totally get if the council finds it broken enough to ban. I do hope they give the players a chance to suspect test it rather than quickban as this will have so much of an impact on how the meta evolves.
 
Could someone help critique my team and explain why i'm not able to ladder more than 1200 or so?

Click & Kill (Annihilape) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rage Fist
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Poison Jab

MemesMemesMemes (Jolteon) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pin Missile
- Thunderbolt
- Protect
- Volt Switch

Flash (Wo-Chien) @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pollen Puff
- Giga Drain
- Foul Play
- Protect

Not Whimsicott (Murkrow) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Haze
- Thunder Wave
- Tailwind
- U-turn

Homelander (Palafin) @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jet Punch
- Ice Punch
- Close Combat
- Flip Turn

I Smile Back (Chi-Yu) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Lava Plume
- Hex
- Snarl

I usually open up with Anihillape and Jolteon, Pin missile Anihilape, use rage fist with anihilape, then volt switch out into murkrow, which i use to tailwind and thunder wave

murkrow is also present to use haze on dondozo.

murkrow can pivot into palafin, whichI then pivots back out to trigger the ability and then, usage of pokemon is dependent on situations

I've struggled to consistetnly use the core gimmick, and chi-yu tends to be my main sweeper. I also find that chi-yu and palafin both being choice'd ends up screwing me over.

Torkoal is also a consistent problem.

I also don't really know how to use EVs optimally.

Finally, I'd ultimately like to transition this team to VGC when that starts, hence no repeated items
 
uh hi first time posting on smogon, i wanted to make a post sharing a doubles ou i personally use that i call "Astros ultra meta gen 9 doubles ou team"
zoom.jpg

first up is the combo i found by myself that i call "electric weed" thats meowscarda and iron hands

electro hoe (Iron Hands) @ Room Service

Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Fake Out
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch

chug jug (Meowscarada) @ Room Service
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pollen Puff
- Trick Room
- Ally Switch

- Helping Hand
so the idea behind this combo is to be the leaders and start the match, have iron hands lead with a fake out and meowscarda use trick room, after that its just belly drum with iron hands and then pollen puff with meowscarda for the healing and then the rest is up to you

the next combo is the very common dondozo+ Tatsugiri that i call "the fat man"
maxresdefault.jpg


feesh (Dondozo) @ Leftovers

Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Bulldoze
- Crunch
sushi chad (Tatsugiri-Droopy) @ Leftovers
Ability: Commander
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Memento
- Outrage
- Protect

- Dragon Pulse

not alot i can really add to this set just send out dondozo and tatsu at the same time and your set

and for the final combo its another common set of slaking and Grafaiai which i call the "valorant e-couple"

download.jpg

chad (Slaking) @ Life Orb
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch
- Brick Break

gansta (Grafaiai) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Doodle
- Encore
- Parting Shot

- Poison Jab


just land doodle with grafaiai and your set to have a slaking sweep, make sure to put drain punch to good use so you dont accidentally die to life orb

thats all thank you for reading my first ever post im sorry if this is a bad post mods bye

also heres the pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/3fccb495bc31b6a6

EDIT: changed chug jugs moveset and. gave him acrobatics so he doesn't die from earthquakes
chug jug (Meowscarada) @ Room Service
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Pollen Puff
- Trick Room
- Acrobatics
- Helping Hand
 
Last edited:

Actuarily

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Moderator
Seeing as Singles OU has started their discussion on terastilization, where is the doubles community wanting to take it? It feels a lot more balanced in here in my opinion and has much more room for even more creative sets, but there is still potential for it to become problematic. I want to see it stay as I'm having a lot of fun with it, but I also want a healthy meta game.

I don't actually know, was dynamax banned in gen 8 DOU? I only really played VGC, so I am new to this part of Smogon.
Would much rather terastal be banned. Given team preview I feel like it is a much easier to predict how a goth will be used to pin vs trying to predict a terablast of any possible type run on one of six mons. To me it seems that should be the focus of the bans. I would also advocate for banning of flutter mane and inclusion of a sleep clause before worrying about gothitelle as well. Either way, this meta is a disaster at the moment but I am enjoying it. I feel these dex cuts have limited my personal play style and I feel like I don't have the mons to play as streamlined as I'd like, if that makes sense. I also feel like implementing revival blessing might help remedy random tera-4x-effective instakills and the issues that causes, but I would most definitely prefer a ban, having never been a big fan of gimmicks that newer games have implemented.
This past weekend the focus was on bans that had been implemented in previous metas. I think they wanted to give us more time to experience the new stuff before voting this upcoming weekend. I think then is when they will vote on terastilizing.
I really hope terastilizing doesn't get banned as I'm having a lot of fun with it, but I totally get if the council finds it broken enough to ban. I do hope they give the players a chance to suspect test it rather than quickban as this will have so much of an impact on how the meta evolves.
Regarding tiering looking at Terastialization, it will not be banned by quickban. The generation defining mechanic deserves a much deeper look, and community input, than a council quickban is able to offer.

We’re closely monitoring the singles discussion on Tera and the potential options they are weighing. If the doubles community feels Tera is worthy of suspecting, we could potentially consider these same options. That being said, we’d much rather have some metagame development occur and allow players to get a feel for how strong Tera is before we’d consider a suspect, so we’d want to wait a little while before really getting into that discussion.
 

Actuarily

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Moderator
Could someone help critique my team and explain why i'm not able to ladder more than 1200 or so?

Click & Kill (Annihilape) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rage Fist
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Poison Jab

MemesMemesMemes (Jolteon) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pin Missile
- Thunderbolt
- Protect
- Volt Switch

Flash (Wo-Chien) @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pollen Puff
- Giga Drain
- Foul Play
- Protect

Not Whimsicott (Murkrow) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Haze
- Thunder Wave
- Tailwind
- U-turn

Homelander (Palafin) @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jet Punch
- Ice Punch
- Close Combat
- Flip Turn

I Smile Back (Chi-Yu) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Lava Plume
- Hex
- Snarl

I usually open up with Anihillape and Jolteon, Pin missile Anihilape, use rage fist with anihilape, then volt switch out into murkrow, which i use to tailwind and thunder wave

murkrow is also present to use haze on dondozo.

murkrow can pivot into palafin, whichI then pivots back out to trigger the ability and then, usage of pokemon is dependent on situations

I've struggled to consistetnly use the core gimmick, and chi-yu tends to be my main sweeper. I also find that chi-yu and palafin both being choice'd ends up screwing me over.

Torkoal is also a consistent problem.

I also don't really know how to use EVs optimally.

Finally, I'd ultimately like to transition this team to VGC when that starts, hence no repeated items
So for this team, my main thought is do you need this many choice scarf holders on a team where you’re also running prankster tailwind? I bet you could make Chi-Yu a life orb set and be able to carry protect. Annihilape could probably do something similar, a set like life orb (or clear amulet to neuter intimidate) with rage fist/Close Combat/Tera blast/protect with a steel Tera type could be good.

I’d also consider replacing the Jolteon with something like friend guard Maushold. Maushold can use beat up to power up rage fist, and it also has useful traits such as follow me and the friend guard ability to help support your sweep. Something like this could be good to try:
Maushold @ Focus Sash
Ability: Friend Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Beat Up
- Follow Me
- Encore

I think if you cut Murkrow’s u-turn (it’s not doing much damage anyways) and replace that with taunt, combined with the added protects, you’ll be in a much better position vs Trick Room. Also if your opponent is able to get Torkoal in under Trick Room, you can find a safe switch to bring in Wo-Chien and activate its water Tera to stall out Trick Room turns.
 
So for this team, my main thought is do you need this many choice scarf holders on a team where you’re also running prankster tailwind? I bet you could make Chi-Yu a life orb set and be able to carry protect. Annihilape could probably do something similar, a set like life orb (or clear amulet to neuter intimidate) with rage fist/Close Combat/Tera blast/protect with a steel Tera type could be good.

I’d also consider replacing the Jolteon with something like friend guard Maushold. Maushold can use beat up to power up rage fist, and it also has useful traits such as follow me and the friend guard ability to help support your sweep. Something like this could be good to try:
Maushold @ Focus Sash
Ability: Friend Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Beat Up
- Follow Me
- Encore

I think if you cut Murkrow’s u-turn (it’s not doing much damage anyways) and replace that with taunt, combined with the added protects, you’ll be in a much better position vs Trick Room. Also if your opponent is able to get Torkoal in under Trick Room, you can find a safe switch to bring in Wo-Chien and activate its water Tera to stall out Trick Room turns.
Thanks for this--Gonna rework this for VGC before trying to fix it for DOU, mainly in that I can't use either of the Ruin Mons I use, but for both cases, I can't use beat up as rage fist fodder if its steel terra type, and I will make Annihilape an easily readable terra if i do terra to fighting instead.

I may try playing around with it, but unsure whether its really the best way to handle it.

I will also probably test different items on one of Murkrow and Maushold, since I'm trying to avoid doubling up, but open to suggestions

Would you say theres any alternatives to Wo-Chien or Chi-Yu I could look into? Any specific questions about VGC will obviously be directed there but since you already understand the premise of the team, I suppose its worth asking.

I also have the intent to turn this into a team in game, and I have a Hyper Trained Shiny Breloom that I'd lvoe to use, but i don't know if it is a usable mon in doubles!
 
uh hi first time posting on smogon, i wanted to make a post sharing a doubles ou i personally use that i call "Astros ultra meta gen 9 doubles ou team"
Hello everyone, Astroblastyt here, and I've decided to do something big
I've decided after long and hard thought... i will be remaking my doubles. ou team cuz it sucks
ok enough joking around time for the remade team
Combo 1: electric kush v2

show.png


electro hoe (Iron Hands) @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Fake Out
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch

nothing much changed with my buddy electro hoe but I decided room service is kinda worthless on an already very slow mon so I decided to make it clear amulet to avoid parting shot, intimidate, and. other moves that ruin the belly drum sweep.

meowscarada.png

chug jug (Meowscarada) @ Room Service
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Pollen Puff
- Trick Room
- Acrobatics
- Helping Hand

The chug jug is the exact same, if it ain't broke don't fix it

NOW FOR THE NEW COMBOS
Combo 2: THE BACKUP BIRDS



Menu_SV_Flamigo.png



Bro bird (Flamigo) @ Ability Shield
Ability: Costar
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Wide Guard
- Low Kick
- U-turn

Now I realized that when or if meowscarda fucking dies we need emergency support, that's where the amigo bro flamigo comes in, just simply switch out of chug jug, and BOOM you have a 4x atk flamingo
also, the ability shield may seem like an odd pick, but. grafariai and slaking are EVERYWHERE and i dont wanna risk giving costar to slaking

927.png

back up (Espathra) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Helping Hand
- Lumina Crash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball

now trick room and iron hands arent guaranteed to work all the time, so as a back up i decided to add flamigo and the 2nd bird bro: esparthra
if or when iron hands die, switch into espartha i honestly cant say anything else

FINAL COMBO:
THE POWER OF THE SUN


torkoal_by_phantombima_d9s3eki-fullview.png


turtle. (Torkoal) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Protect
- Eruption
- Flare Blitz
- Flamethrower

hes torkal, enough said



Menu_SV_Flutter_Mane.png

Phantom (Flutter Mane) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Helping Hand

life orb flutter mane enough said


thank you for reading
pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/2e87bc2e7f274c2d
 

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