Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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But Cyclizar gets outspeed by Dragapult and Chien-Pao and it gets OHKOed by them before it can use Shed Tail.

Pawmot and Breloom have Mach Punch so they can deal Massive damage to Cyclizar.

252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pawmot Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 306-362 (108.5 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 398-471 (141.1 - 167%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You can simply not bring Cyclizar in on the things that stop it from using Shed Tail.
 
But Cyclizar gets outspeed by Dragapult and Chien-Pao and it gets OHKOed by them before it can use Shed Tail.

Pawmot and Breloom have Mach Punch so they can deal Massive damage to Cyclizar.

252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pawmot Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 306-362 (108.5 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 398-471 (141.1 - 167%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This requires them to be out on the field before or on the turn Cyclizar comes in to KO him before a Sub happens, which any player with two colliding Brain Cells probably would not bring Cyclizar in for unless it's sac fodder and thus probably too weak to Shed Tail anyway (very rare with Regenerator).

Dragapult's value is not necessarily beating Cyclizar itself, it's ignoring the Sub it passes and the Screens it's paired with to minimize set-up opportunity. Even then this doesn't strictly make Cyclizar a good or bad presence just because one major Pokemon counters its strategy without effort.
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
You can simply not bring Cyclizar in on the things that stop it from using Shed Tail.
Or—and this sounds dumb but hear me out because this is just another way for Cyclizar to be braindead—run a special Scarf set. You OHKO Pult with Draco (eliminating the only real threat to SubScreen teams) and Pao with Overheat. Cyclizar’s other three moveslots are basically filler so I decided to fill them with something that beats the things that outspeed it. This isn’t the main Cyclizar set by any means, but the fact that it can 1v1 Dragapult or Chien-Pao and still be able to successfully pull off a Shed Tail (or several) later in the match makes it even more of a problem.
 
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But Cyclizar gets outspeed by Dragapult and Chien-Pao and it gets OHKOed by them before it can use Shed Tail.

Pawmot and Breloom have Mach Punch so they can deal Massive damage to Cyclizar.

252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pawmot Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 306-362 (108.5 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 398-471 (141.1 - 167%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I don't understand how you're still allowed to post here. You consistently contribute nothing but irrelevant calcs and the worst non-sequitur "arguments" I've seen outside of Youtube comments and you seem to lack a fundamental understanding of how we structure and balance competitive metagames and the contexts in which certain threats and mechanics are being discussed as potentially broken. You seem to think that naming a few random things that can OHKO a threat somehow indicates that threat isn't broken in the bigger picture, and in cases such as Cyclizar you don't even seem to understand how that Pokemon is being used in the first place. It isn't trying to Shed Tail in front of common priority users or Pokemon who outspeed it; any player with two functioning brain cells is going to know that Mach Punch is incoming and hard switch to one of Cyclizar's 5 other fucking teammates to deal with that. Slapping a Breloom on your team isn't going to magically stop Cyclizar from passing on your other 5 Pokemon, and has no bearing on whether or not it's a healthy presence in the metagame.

This will probably sound toxic, but at some point the only solution is to learn to play the fucking game before butting into discourses about competitive balance with poorly thought-out and irrelevant arguments and calcs. This is a consistent thing across dozens of posts with you to the point where a lot of people seem to think you're intentionally trolling. All it does is derail otherwise productive conversations when 10 people jump on you to point out how whatever garbage you posted is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, a bad argument, and/or just flat out wrong.
 
As I said in my previous post, I’ve been mostly inactive so I apologize if there has been a well-known meta development to account for this, but why is Iron Valiant no longer on the tiering radar? What is able to reliably answer its various sets?

Also, I understand that a decision regarding Tera likely needs to be made before looking into mons that may be problematic with Tera, but since Tera is included in the current metagame, I’ll continue down that path for a moment. I’ve seen people talk about how if Tera remains, Dragonite should be examined because of the Tera normal Extremespeed set, and I understand that perspective, but is it a similarly common sentiment concerning Kingambit? I feel like Kingambit abuses Tera just as hard, if not harder, than Dragonite and it’s even more unpredictable by virtue of having several viable Tera types that can allow it to completely reverse sweep an otherwise lopsided game.
Sylveon eats valiant alive for breakfast, regardless of the set. AV iron hands can tank a choice specs moonblast to the face and clap back with heavy slam for an ohko. scizor bullet bunch also completely destroys it. Yes its strong and can do mixed attack shenanigans, but its also made of wet paper and can't reliably outspeed most of the bigger threats without booster energy, or kill most of the tankier mons without choice specs.
 
Okay its time for another maybe discovery!

Dragalge isn't too bad of a toxic spikes setter. I don't know (or even think tbh) how they aren't outclassed by Glimmora, but Toxic Spikes in conjunction with Adaptability, strong STABs and great bulk (with ways to boost it) has brought me pretty far in lower ladders
 

Goodbye & Thanks

Thrown in a fire?
Sylveon eats valiant alive for breakfast, regardless of the set. AV iron hands can tank a choice specs moonblast to the face and clap back with heavy slam for an ohko. scizor bullet bunch also completely destroys it. Yes its strong and can do mixed attack shenanigans, but its also made of wet paper and can't reliably outspeed most of the bigger threats without booster energy, or kill most of the tankier mons without choice specs.
Ok, thank you for the reply. Still though, is there much in OU that can reliably switch into Valiant repeatedly without scouting the set? I think that on paper, Amoonguss seems like it could be a good way to scout sets but you would likely need to pair it with an unaware mon like Dondozo in case the Valiant is SD + Psycho Cut or something, and that feels like a pretty particular team building restriction. Specs Psychic/Psyshock probably does too much for Amoonguss to scout against that set anyway, although I’m not sure what coverage options are usually run on Specs sets. It has so many viable sets from specs, SD, special Life Orb, and either physical or special Booster Energy (CM Booster Energy is really good) that I feel like it’s very difficult to form a game plan from preview as to how you can handle it. I can’t speak with complete certainty about Sylveon this generation but it’s always been pretty lackluster and more of an early generation/newer player trap (I’m not insinuating you, or anyone else, is an inexperienced player by the way - I’m just commenting on my perspective of Sylveon). Its set variety also makes planning to revenge kill Valiant a risky proposition, since if it’s Booster Energy or you’re using scarf Gholdengo and the Valiant has SD Shadow Sneak, you can be in a lot of trouble. Scizor does seem like a good Revenge Killing option and it’s pretty good in the current meta regardless, but it can’t reliably switch into Valiant. I said this before but I come from an SM background, so my perspective is influenced by that, and I’m used to things like having to decipher the Magearna set, scout for Protean Gren, and to a lesser extent, scout for some Z moves or predict the Mega Zard form, so I don’t think that Valiant is necessarily unbalanced because of its set variety. Rather, I’m just saying that my familiarity with SM (and the relative power level and team variety/building flexibility in the tier) makes those less apparent sets/mons feel more manageable, so I appreciate insight on how players are building for and approaching Valiant in SV.
 
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IS IT TRUE?
No, OU Pokémon can counter Chi-Yu?
No, switch ins at all?

If the above is true, Do you know what this means?
It means the reason Chi-Yu has no counters in OU is because all his counters are in Uber and he belongs in Uber.

THUS, I END MY POST THE SAME WAY I BEGAN MY POST, I NOMINATE CHI-YU FOR A BAN TO UBERS.
Tyranitar is pretty good. It counters any potential sun boost and gets the sand Sp. Defense boost at the same time and threatens it out with Rock STAB or ground coverage.

Azumarill with HP investment can often switch into it a couple times without even having Thick Fat or AV and threaten it out with Aqua Jet. Not a perfect counter, but it makes dealing with it somewhat easier.

Goodra is something I've been wanting to try since it is a Dragon with insane special bulk, but I honestly haven't tried it yet and don't know the Tera dark calcs as well and if that side of it is viable.

In theory, a dark/dragon like Heidreigon or even Roaring Moon could be made into a special defensive set because both the STABS are resisted. But most people would prefer to run offensive Roaring Moon because it's really strong in that role.

There is also the problem of Chi-Yu having a Tera type to counter its potential counters like Tera Grass to hit T-tar and Azu. Or potentially Tera Fairy to hit the dragons and dark types, which is everything I named here except Azu. I've personally seen Tera grass a few times. Azu could run Sap Sipper over a better ability to account for that possibility, but then it has less resistance to a potential Tera fire STAB.

The scary thing about Chi-Yu is it often doesn't even need to Tera, and if it does, it's often strong enough to brute force its way through would be defensive checks. It also has the option for double STAB ters bonuses, which can be just insane amounts of brute force power to deal with.
 
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alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Okay its time for another maybe discovery!

Dragalge isn't too bad of a toxic spikes setter. I don't know (or even think tbh) how they aren't outclassed by Glimmora, but Toxic Spikes in conjunction with Adaptability, strong STABs and great bulk (with ways to boost it) has brought me pretty far in lower ladders
With full Sp. Def investment and Leftovers/Black Sludge, Dragalge avoids a 2HKO from Specs Chi-Yu in the sun (unless it Teras). That’s the single thing I can think of that Dragalge has over Glimmora.
 
so basically, you have scizor as the best & most reliable counterlead to grimmsnarl. sets such as this & this are good ones, though there is a variety of sets scizor can run using terablast etc,. the first set will ohko almost every grimmsnarl at lead, as they need to be nearly max-def to survive bp reliably; the second set can either deal heavy damage, or tera and ohko. your choice.

as for other advice, just try to play in a manner that limits the screens grimmsnarl can get up. do this by forcing/taking opportunities for good chip, playing around the screens they do have up, and maintaining your own pressure.

Just a small thing but wouldn't thief be better than night slash on that first set? Lose the high crit rate but gain 20 BP, and maybe something will end up happening with knock off once in a hundred games.


What EV spreads are peeps using for Ting-Lu. Is it better to do mix investment in it's defensive stats, or go all in on one over the other?
Generally it's being run with max SpD, to take advantage of vessel of ruin. It makes it a generally very hard to break tank. You could shift a bit of investment into defence and keep enough spd to not get 2HKO'd by major special threats but it's already pretty bulky physically without investment.
 

KamenOH

formerly DynamaxBestMeta
I’m not sure, but something tells me you might just have a teeny tiny bit of a bias towards offense and leaving broken mechanics in the tier, DynamaxBestMeta.
And yet you sit here and dont offer any retort beyond name calling. Even a refusal to engage would be more constructive, as it establishes you as the more sound individual. Trust me when i say the name's outdated, made by a less experienced person, and if it could be changed i would have done so a year ago.
Yes, I am biased towards offense, and tera as a mechanic. However, who says tera is definitively broken, when we have a whole thread arguing that very point? The post by Advaita provides rather strong points in Tera's favor.
 
Or—and this sounds dumb but hear me out because this is just another way for Cyclizar to be braindead—run a special Scarf set. You OHKO Pult with Draco (eliminating the only real threat to SubScreen teams) and Pao with Overheat. Cyclizar’s other three moveslots are basically filler so I decided to fill them with something that beats the things that outspeed it. This isn’t the main Cyclizar set by any means, but the fact that it can 1v1 Dragapult or Chien-Pao and still be able to successfully pull off a Shed Tail (or several) later in the match makes it even more of a problem.
Scarf Cyclizar feels alright, but is predictable as soon as the opponent knows it's scarfed, and drains so much momentum if it doesn't come off, at least in my experience. I know a lot of people do only use it for shed tail, but losing the utility of being able to Knock Off or Rapid Spin before using Shed Tail is a massive loss on more defensive setup. It wasn't as good as standard HDB Cyclizar when I tried it, but I reckon Scarf has more of a place in HO teams where you're more likely to win or lose a game on a single prediction anyway. Definitely a nasty surprise set though, and as you said a nice way to make Cyclizar even more brainless if you just need that guaranteed Shed Tail.

Speaking of making things more brainless, has anyone else been experimenting with Chi-Yu tera types to stop its few counters?

I've run into relatively few Ttars and Blisseys on the ladder and had no problems because my team is stacked with Body Press already, but has anyone found success with Tera Blast Fighting or maybe even Grass? Or Ghost to screw over priority?

I'm mostly asking because I never find myself clicking anything except Dark Pulse/Overheat/Flamethrower no matter the set, and I want to get some value out of that fourth slot, plus I rarely need that extra power from Tera Fire because it's already busted enough. Currently running Gen 1 Charizard kiddie strats with Fire Blast in the fourth slot, because I literally never needed to click Psychic to guarantee a kill in about 30 games.
 
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For the moment your best bets are spedef ttar, av azu, Spedef gastro, anything with good spedef, good hp and can tank at least 1 of the 2 stabs and basically being faster than it, which is hard but duable, unless of course it teras into something and that might change your plans a bit, also Dondozo does not counter chi yu due to his low special defense and chi yu can just dark pulse his way out
I've been using Dragonite with Screens support against Chi-Yu, and from my experience it works. Multiscale allows Dragonite to eat a Dark Pulse and set up a Dragon Dance in its face, and given Chi-Yu's poor physical defense, you can kill with Extreme Speed and Earthquake most of the time
 
Speaking of making things more brainless, has anyone else been experimenting with Chi-Yu tera types to stop its few counters?

I've run into relatively few Ttars and Blisseys on the ladder and had no problems because my team is stacked with Body Press already, but has anyone found success with Tera Blast Fighting or maybe even Grass? Or Ghost to screw over priority?

I'm mostly asking because I never find myself clicking anything except Dark Pulse/Overheat/Flamethrower no matter the set, and I want to get some value out of that fourth slot, plus I rarely need that extra power from Tera Fire because it's already busted enough. Currently running Gen 1 Charizard kiddie strats with Fire Blast in the fourth slot, because I literally never needed to click Psychic to guarantee a kill in about 30 games.
If you're mostly facing offensive teams (lol), flame charge has been very good for me. Relatively easy to maneuver to a position where you can flame charge on a switch and then just take out their entire team. Obviously only works without a choice item but I'm not sure what you're running currently.
 
mentally preparing myself to snag the maushold analysis the second the reservation index is posted
I've seen a lot of different sets for Annihilape, but posting the two extremes (and assuming he's terastalized into Fairy/Water/another neutral to normal):

252+ Atk Technician Maushold-Four Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Annihilape: 310-370 (85.8 - 102.4%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Technician Maushold-Four Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Annihilape: 220-270 (51.8 - 63.6%) -- approx. 2HKO

+1 Drain Punch kills you stone dead even without investment, but the mice can reliably revenge offensive sets and unreliably revenge defensive ones.
 

Almirante Matthew

Living an Euclidean life
Goodra is something I've been wanting to try since it is a Dragon with insane special bulk, but I honestly haven't tried it yet and don't know the Tera dark calcs as well and if that side of it is viable.
Goodra has a base stat of 150 in Special Defense, Beads of Ruin lowers it by 25%, leaving it with 113 in SpDef. It seems good compared with others:
Edit: Calcs made with the method commented by Divine Retribution
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 118-139 (30.8 - 36.2%) -- 55.4% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 95-112 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 158-186 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


You can invest more to better result. If it not AV, you need to invest more in SpDef to survive:
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Goodra: 136-162 (35.5 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Goodra: 110-129 (28.7 - 33.6%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Goodra: 182-216 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO


On the other hand, Goodra has access to Surf, and can threaten it with Draco Meteor:
0 SpA Goodra Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 120-142 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO

0 SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 129-153 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


This is without invest in Special Attack, even at 252+ it can't OHKO it:
252+ SpA Goodra Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 164-194 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 177-208 (70.5 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Almirante Matthew

Living an Euclidean life
Yeah, that's not how it works. Beads of Ruin doesn't lower the base stat, it lowers the actual stat, which includes modifiers from EVs/IVs/nature/etc. You can (roughly) simulate this in the calculator by increasing the base power of the move Chi-Yu uses to 1.25x. It's not exact but it's much closer than just multiplying the base stat by 0.75.
I didn't know that :row:, thanks for the info, now I can make better calcs :)
 
Skeledirge is so strong (and fun) in OU!
It is especially useful with full def.spe. investment: able to absorb Iron Valiant, Volcarona and even Gholdengo hits efficiently while also being able to tank physical hits very well (before depositing a gentle will-o-wisp). Only gets 40% from Extreme Speed Tera Dragonite for example.
View attachment 470821
And it's so pretty with a cute bird friend!
You should defenitelly try Big Croc!
I always use thing. Unaware + Roar is good to shut down setup sweepers.
 
It's been a few days- how do people feel about Pawmot/Revival Blessing? It's solidified itself as a gimmick to me, but a very very good gimmick if piloted even decently. Idk if it's broken, but not much feels worse than finally dealing with a big menace and it being brought back next turn by a mouse with a scarf.
 
Some interesting finds thanks to foofootwo

rage fist caps it’s power after 6 hits, at least according to his test results. The theoretical maximum for ragefist is 350, and it can’t go any higher than that. No more revival blessing shenanigans lol

 
I know this is 8 pages old, but I like this set a lot, but I think Future Donphan does it better. I think the point of Assault Vest (with wish support) I feel, is that you can basically beat any Gholdengo, force them out and get a spin. I think Future does it better cause of a higher SpDef and a Make it Rain resistance. Ancient is taking like 40% even with vest from Rain, while Future is much less than that, like 20. I also think you need Knock Off to make sure you can break balloons without giving the opponent a free turn.

Iron Treads @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Normal / Water / Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Volt Switch

I'm sure there's a better spread that can balance power and bulk, but Knock+EQ still always KOs Gholdengo and Volt Switch+Rocks+EQ also basically always KOs. And I'm stupid and bad at EV spreads.
In the case of out speeding Gholdengo specifically or just in out speeding in general yeah i have to agree with you that Treads is the better choice but as far as general bulk and damage output without investment i still slot in Tusk. Yes you definitely miss those points of spdef and spd but you hit harder in the switch in. Its 68atk evs to make Treads get the atk+ on terrain which is definitely lower than Tusks needed 232spd to hit 294 but Tusks has better hp/def. With that said i think if you specifically want it to be a hard check to goldy then Treads is definitely the way to go, but if youre using it for a catch all i think i still prefer Tusks. Thats said i never even thought to try treads out so off to testing! Thank you.
 
Yeah, that's not how it works. Beads of Ruin doesn't lower the base stat, it lowers the actual stat, which includes modifiers from EVs/IVs/nature/etc. You can (roughly) simulate this in the calculator by increasing the base power of the move Chi-Yu uses to 1.25x. It's not exact but it's much closer than just multiplying the base stat by 0.75.
I didn't know that :row:, thanks for the info, now I can make better calcs :)
The actual buff is 100/.75 = x1.33~, which is way more than you think. So aside from doubles applications and SoR weakening Body Press, they are as strong as Tough Claws/Adaptability.
 
Ok, thank you for the reply. Still though, is there much in OU that can reliably switch into Valiant repeatedly without scouting the set? I think that on paper, Amoonguss seems like it could be a good way to scout sets but you would likely need to pair it with an unaware mon like Dondozo in case the Valiant is SD + Psycho Cut or something, and that feels like a pretty particular team building restriction. Specs Psychic/Psyshock probably does too much for Amoonguss to scout against that set anyway, although I’m not sure what coverage options are usually run on Specs sets. It has so many viable sets from specs, SD, special Life Orb, and either physical or special Booster Energy (CM Booster Energy is really good) that I feel like it’s very difficult to form a game plan from preview as to how you can handle it. I can’t speak with complete certainty about Sylveon this generation but it’s always been pretty lackluster and more of an early generation/newer player trap (I’m not insinuating you, or anyone else, is an inexperienced player by the way - I’m just commenting on my perspective of Sylveon). Its set variety also makes planning to revenge kill Valiant a risky proposition, since if it’s Booster Energy or you’re using scarf Gholdengo and the Valiant has SD Shadow Sneak, you can be in a lot of trouble. Scizor does seem like a good Revenge Killing option and it’s pretty good in the current meta regardless, but it can’t reliably switch into Valiant. I said this before but I come from an SM background, so my perspective is influenced by that, and I’m used to things like having to decipher the Magearna set, scout for Protean Gren, and to a lesser extent, scout for some Z moves or predict the Mega Zard form, so I don’t think that Valiant is necessarily unbalanced because of its set variety. Rather, I’m just saying that my familiarity with SM (and the relative power level and team variety/building flexibility in the tier) makes those less apparent sets/mons feel more manageable, so I appreciate insight on how players are building for and approaching Valiant in SV.
Commenting on sylveon because I think it’s incredibly underrated right now anyways, I managed to peak top 100 with it a week ago and I’m currently hovering around 1600. There’s mainly 2 sets I’ve been using, the classic utility set with hyper voice, wish, protect, calm mind and max hp/def evs. tera type is something defensive usually, I prefer poison so I don’t get stopped by toxic during CM sweeps. The big problem with that set is that it struggles against gholdengo, which is a problem when he’s the most used Pokémon in the tier, and that set lends itself to more passive play anyways, which just isn’t great right now. I do think if you want a wish passer sylveon is the best one but wish passing is in a rough spot as long as hazard stack continues to dominate.

That leads me to the second set I’ve been using these past few days to great success. Modest AV sylveon with some hp, some defense, max sp-atk and hyper voice, shadow ball, psyshock, and hyper beam. Im not joking when I say this set checks or counters 90% of the top Pokémon right now, only really losing to steel types like corvi, kingambit, and scizor. Plus, kingambit and scizor really do not appreciate taking a hyper voice to the face on switch. Goldie dies to hyper voice + shadow ball with any hazards up and you’re guaranteed to live make it rain, even from a max sp atk specs gholdengo. It also makes a great anti-lead, able to force the opponent onto the backfoot and rack up damage before it goes down. Notable Pokémon that you win against off the top of my head, in no particular order.
  • Glimmora: can’t kill you in 2 sludge bombs without a lucky poison but you can kill him in 2 psyshocks, and you won’t trigger toxic spikes while do
  • Grimmsnarl: dies to 2 hyper voice with light screen up and gets ohkod without it, so he either dies for both screens or is forced out with only one
  • Garchomp: gets ohkod by hyper voice, and earthquake does negligible damage in return
  • Great tusks: can’t ohko you without booster energy or sun, both of which are telegraphed, and he easily gets killed by hyper voice.
  • Chien pao: does negligible damage to you and dies to hyper voice.
  • Chi yu: set dependant, scarf 3hkos you and hyper voice 2hkos. Specs will 2hko you, but you can employ the forbidden hyper beam tech for an 80% chance to ohko him first
  • Dragonite: 3hkos you with no boosts and 2hkos you with +1. hyper voice 2hkos from full, or ohkos if multiscale is broken. If you come in on the dragon dance, tera fairy hyper beam ohkos him through multiscale, which usually isn’t worth it but its still funny.
  • Iron valiant: already mentioned, but she can’t remotely scratch you and dies to a single hyper voice
  • Espathra: set dependent if you’re switching in but you’ll always win if you both start from neutral. Hyper voice hits behind substitute so she can’t even stall
  • Cyclizar. Hyper voice hitting behind subs means you can kill pretty much anything that switches in except for the aforementioned steels.
  • Ting-lu: hyper voice is a 3hko because he’s a tanky bastard, but that’s better then a lot of other Pokémon and he can’t do much back.
  • Annihilape: gets 2hkod by hyper voice and can’t touch you unless he’s already eaten multiple hits. Bonus points if he tries to taunt you first for no reason
  • Iron moth: can’t ohko you but gets ohkod by psyshock
  • Dondozo: takes too much damage from hyper voice to set up with rest and sleep talk.
  • Skeledirge. Set dependent but shadow ball will 2hko all but the most specially bulky skeledirges.




    And so on, there’s a lot of more niche mons like hands and baxcalibur you do great against as well. I’d definitely recommend at least giving it a shot, especially if the cheese stick gets banned.
 
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