VGC “Why do you have Ho-oh on a rain team?” VGC 2019

[R-B-Y]

Short answer: I like it, rain doesn’t bother it much, it kills grass types
Long answer:
I began building this team after Darkmalice mentioned ho-oh on a rain team, which interested me. I found that ferrothorn, Ho-oh and Kyogre formed a pretty solid core, and after a LOT of playtesting found this combo to work well.


Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Kyogre is Kyogre, the 2019 season is literally just kyogre now. It forms the core of this team, with ferrothorn and ho-oh, and is the main end-game “sweeper” sort of. I find it’s usually better to bring it out later in the game, when everything’s been softened up enough to allow for a water spout rampage. Otherwise, pretty standard set.

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 132 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Ferrothorn is here to do a lot of things. This spiky boi removes xerneas, necrozma-dm, kyogre, etc never ending list. The evs always ko no bulk kyogre with power whip, with the rest dumped in HP and Special Defense.

Tapu Lele @ Focus Sash
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Grass Knot
- Protect

Lele is probably the least important mon here. I put it in here as filler, really, and because of that it doesn’t really do anything in battle. I find myself rarely bringing it, and when I do, it only lets off one or two psychics before being shot down. Otherwise, standard set.

Ho-Oh @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Tailwind
- Brave Bird
- Protect

The MVP of the team. Simply put, I love Ho-oh. It has tailwind, bulk, 50% burn chance, great offensive typing, etc. I use it to remove grass types, to set tailwind, and bother xerneas and necrozma-dm a lot. Just because kyogre is everywhere doesn’t mean this isn’t good, it basically handles everything in the meta other than it. Evs maximise damage and outspeeds necrozma-dm. The rest is dumped into HP. I flip between protect and recover in the last slot a lot, but recover has saved me more than protect has.

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psyshock
- Icy Wind
- Helping Hand

Cresselia is here to counter opposing trick room. It’s mostly brought in case of hard trick room teams, or if the opposing team seems super speedy or weak to ferrothorn. Fairly standard otherwise, the move pool I doubt a bit though.

Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Muddy Water
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball

Fini is here to stop Yveltal and incineroar, to a lesser extent. Very standard apart from shadow ball, which can be helpful to deal with lunala.


Threats:
A few. Incineroar and groudon are major pains in the butt, and opposing tsareena and ferrothorn are pretty annoying too, especially once ho-oh eventually wears down.

 

[Darkmalice]

I'm glad that this team started with my comment =D

If you're not finding Lele useful, you could give Ho-Oh a Misty Seed and replace Lele. I think Hitmontop would make a good replacement, as it checks Incineroar and Ferrothorn with STAB, and Groudon (Wide Guard to block Precipes Blade). FO, Intimidate, and Wide Guard greatly benefit Ho-Oh both generally and by setting up Tailwind (as well as the rest of the team), and Feint can punish opponents who attempt to stall Tailwind or Trick Room. Hitmontop also has that middling Speed that benefits from both TR and Tailwind. I also considered removing Fini, but I feel that would weaken your Yveltal match-up too much. Plus instead of denying Fake Out for your opponent, you can switch your Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn into predicted Fake Outs.

I feel your Kyogre should run Scald over Origin Pulse. The reason here is Wide Guard Solgaelo, who otherwise walls Kyogre's STAB moves. It can also be somewhat difficult for your team to deal with a Wide Guard Solgaleo particularly when using Kyogre, since the only teammates that can hit it super-effectively are Ho-Oh (which is neutral in rain) and Fini by locking itself into a generally weak move.

I think Cresselia should drop Psyshock for another support move like Ally Switch. It has its uses, but it does very little damage in this metagame to anything except Hitmontop. Ally Switch seems to have more use to me, for example, protecting allies from Yveltal's Sucker Punch.

Also your Ferrothorn EV spread is inefficient. 252 HP / 228 Atk / 28 SpD with a Sassy nature nets one extra SpD point.

 

[R-B-Y]

I'm glad that this team started with my comment =D

If you're not finding Lele useful, you could give Ho-Oh a Misty Seed and replace Lele. I think Hitmontop would make a good replacement, as it checks Incineroar and Ferrothorn with STAB, and Groudon (Wide Guard to block Precipes Blade). FO, Intimidate, and Wide Guard greatly benefit Ho-Oh both generally and by setting up Tailwind (as well as the rest of the team), and Feint can punish opponents who attempt to stall Tailwind or Trick Room. Hitmontop also has that middling Speed that benefits from both TR and Tailwind. I also considered removing Fini, but I feel that would weaken your Yveltal match-up too much. Plus instead of denying Fake Out for your opponent, you can switch your Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn into predicted Fake Outs.

I feel your Kyogre should run Scald over Origin Pulse. The reason here is Wide Guard Solgaelo, who otherwise walls Kyogre's STAB moves. It can also be somewhat difficult for your team to deal with a Wide Guard Solgaleo particularly when using Kyogre, since the only teammates that can hit it super-effectively are Ho-Oh (which is neutral in rain) and Fini by locking itself into a generally weak move.

I think Cresselia should drop Psyshock for another support move like Ally Switch. It has its uses, but it does very little damage in this metagame to anything except Hitmontop. Ally Switch seems to have more use to me, for example, protecting allies from Yveltal's Sucker Punch.

Also your Ferrothorn EV spread is inefficient. 252 HP / 228 Atk / 28 SpD with a Sassy nature nets one extra SpD point.

What about replacing fini with koko? With hitmontop and kyogre i feel the incineroar situation would be well handled already, and koko would be a better mon in general and check to yveltal as well. It also helps with the kyogre situation, now that I realised if ferrothorn drops then my team is just destroyed by it.

 

[Darkmalice]

What about replacing fini with koko? With hitmontop and kyogre i feel the incineroar situation would be well handled already, and koko would be a better mon in general and check to yveltal as well. It also helps with the kyogre situation, now that I realised if ferrothorn drops then my team is just destroyed by it.

I like that idea (when used with Hitmontop since it needs Lele's Sash to check Kyogre). I agree it's better againt Yveltal, whilst you maintain your sleep protection.

Tapu Koko @ Focus Sash
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Nature's Madness
- Volt Switch
- Protect

Nature's Madness helps against Shadow Shield Lunala, Lightning Rod users, and Electric-mon resists like Ferrothorn and Groudon.

Ho-Oh would then need an item change. Electric Seed or Aguav Berry, the former better with Recover (or Roost) and the latter with Protect.

If you have issues with Kyogre, try a Wiki Berry on Ferrothorn over Rocky Helmet. It'll let it last longer so that it can hang around to check Kyogre (and Xerneas) more often. I find it procs often against those two, whilst it helps if you use Ferrothorn as a win-con (often I find it great for ensuring the double Leech Seed).

 

[Jxturbo]

I suggest that thunder be replaced with thunder punch and bolt switch with maybe u turn as tapu koko’s Special Attack I s quite weak

 

[revelations]

I suggest that thunder be replaced with thunder punch and bolt switch with maybe u turn as tapu koko’s Special Attack I s quite weak

TBH I don't play any VGC but those suggestions are quite inaccurate as His team is rain- He's running a rain team and that Tapu Koko is there to abuse it with Thunder+Electric Terrain. Also on Koko's Special Attack being weak: it IS visibily lower than Phys Atk. however its lack of great Physical electric moves and no physical fairy moves its Physical attack stat isn't benefiting it.

 

[Jxturbo]

TBH I don't play any VGC but those suggestions are quite inaccurate as His team is rain- He's running a rain team and that Tapu Koko is there to abuse it with Thunder+Electric Terrain. Also on Koko's Special Attack being weak: it IS visibily lower than Phys Atk. however its lack of great Physical electric moves and no physical fairy moves its Physical attack stat isn't benefiting it.

Yeah true,but I used thunder punch Tapu Koko on battle tree and it wrecks and what if the opponent is fairy ,it does not have any special steel type moves

 

[revelations]

Yeah true,but I used thunder punch Tapu Koko on battle tree and it wrecks and what if the opponent is fairy ,it does not have any special steel type moves

That's battle tree, not competitive mons and just because Koko doesnt have a special steel move doesn't make it bad. It still hits fairies hard with STAB Thunderbolt/Thunder and tbh you should me more worried about ground types than a steel type.

 

[Kowasabii]

Not much of a vgc player, but would swapping volt switch or protect with HP water be viable? Helps it deal with ground and gets a boost from the rain. Obviously still doesn't deal with Groupon though

 

[revelations]

Not much of a vgc player, but would swapping volt switch or protect with HP water be viable? Helps it deal with ground and gets a boost from the rain. Obviously still doesn't deal with Groupon though

He has a Kyogre so not really