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Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

Can we start seriously talking about Hoopa? A lot of people have been calling it broken. Its very strange that after a big tour we have basically no discussion on the meta. There's a lot of sv players in tours but during discussions maybe a few show up. Feels like people's efforts/time investment is not entirely valued, often being ignored/made fun of. People will continue moving to other tiers/quitting if this happens. I've myself had many occasions where I feel like posting something but don't because it feels like it will never be worth it.

More on the state of 1v1: Ladder Tour was a decent burst of activity, but it was still much smaller than it could have been. The moment it ended, the ladder went back to its usual dead state. A big part of this comes down to motivation—there’s barely any incentive left for people to join or improve at 1v1. There needs to be a way to fix the ladder staying dead. Maybe we could use last year’s custom avatar as a reward for this ladder, and if not, then come up with some other incentive.
Instead, we’re busy posting in the 1v1 Other Tiers thread, even though we already know no one really cares about it. UU, NatDex, and other tiers aren’t even played by most people.

I did not agree with Senior Staff's strange decision of removing a CA from champs last year. Not only does it make no sense looking at the crimes committed, it threw multiple people's year-long efforts in the trash. This has only continued as we continue to bleed players. I have multiple friends who decided to move to an different tier entirely because of this, and are probably never coming back after the death of 1v1's reputation. If the senior staff wanted to fix 1v1 they failed, if they wanted to kill 1v1 their decisions make more sense.
 
Hoopa = Poopa Xd
OM = No M (No Mlayerbase at all)

It has been crickets surrounding hoopa lately which is fitting because U only need a low bp physical bug move to kill it with with anything (Double Entendre) ("Bars MMM!"). If u think that is overcommitment for one pokemon (S tier), play ss and see its really not; Ur choice.

Out of the oms the only even worth considering is nd but it was a complete joke in ndampl (Go team! #champs). Been a scramble of development lately but its giving procrastinating study till the night before an exam.
...
Ladder is gonna be dead just after lt because burnout exists, you don't feel like studying right after an exam period ends.

U are flogging a dead horse with your last point, stuff happened and it might not have been justified just let it go tho.

#Pce Out
 
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Instead, we’re busy posting in the 1v1 Other Tiers thread, even though we already know no one really cares about it. UU, NatDex, and other tiers aren’t even played by most people.l
what did Natdex do to you?

Can we start seriously talking about Hoopa? A lot of people have been calling it broken. Its very strange that after a big tour we have basically no discussion on the meta. There's a lot of sv players in tours but during discussions maybe a few show up.
We sure “a lot of people” isnt just you? Bc I’ve seen basically no one discussing banning anything because most people don’t think anything needs action
 
I'm bored on a train so heres my thoughts on the mons mentioned in the survey before the results are out.

:hoopa-unbound: This mon is the epitome of flexible 1v1 top tier there isn't really a good argument for banning it. It's way too easy to check and doesn't "force" bug moves like Genesect forced fire moves. I'll reiterate from my pre-PL post that hoopa's flexibility and ambiguity is often to its detriments: Its most popular/well used sets lose more matchups than they gain.
You cannot build into a versatile top tier mon's superposition in 1v1, it makes bad teams more often than not. I do not think its bannable and I do not support a suspect test.

:iron crown: Crown is still good. I have no idea why but I feel like WP sets are being undereused right now, especially those that can slot in agility or be really bulky. Spa booster with its 500 slashes still acts as the "main" set for this mon, and we have seen AV and Specs pop up again this PL. Its weakness tends to be in its weakness to other top tiers :hoopaunbound: :garchomp: :volcanion: :volcarona: :garchomp: :roaring moon: and things like the LO prim set that makes it hard to slap on a team as "the fairy check", though you can ev it for something more akin to a 50/50. Run hyper beam on spa for better bolt it wins trust me.

:Pecharunt: God I hate this creature. Pecharunt is the togekiss of our generation where in theory it loses to a lot but it can just hax 90% of its checks into oblivion. In theory steels are its most consistent checks but even those can lose out to curse sets. It has a lot more set diversity than you would expect, and offensive sets can really put in work aside from their surprise factor. Its a pretty good check for a lot of dragons, doesnt lose to fairies much, and finessses common glues like volcanion. The primary thing holding it back is that theres a whole 3 mons out of the top 10 that lose to it, even when its farming most of the rest of the tier. Did you know volcarona runs fiery dance? Run it! It beats pecharunt!

:ursaluna: This mon has somewhat fallen off but its set diversity goes beyond just custap/band/av/orb. I think its one of the most flexible mons in terms of EV spreads. Physical vs Specially defensive sets both have their place in the meta and it can sometimes be a headache figuring out which one it is on preview. Speed investment, especially on flame orb sets also flip a lot of stuff into its favour. I want to re-mention taunt counter, which is still underused despite just how much it flips. It also has a great niche due to being one of the more consistent hoopa checks.

:Iron Valiant: It was sad to see WP val lose to max def sylv in finals but I think that set is a testament to just how much this mon can do. Between The hundred variatoins of EncDis, Band, Specs, Subversal (liechi, attack booster, and speed booster), and now WP, it can really switch up the details of its MU spread while maintaining its big matchups.

:primarina: There is nothing to be said about primarina that hasn't been said already. Just run timid LO more because that set is fire. Spdef specs is also great since you beat bolt and you can tech half the common checks with one of sitrus and kebia berry.

Note: Can we stop dooming about OMs/Natdex for no reason. People are having fun and playing pokemon, which is the reason we are on this site in the first place.
 
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custap should be banned post-world cup. had a conversation with the greatest minds in 1v1 DripLegend Nuxl RADU Potatochan zioziotrip LittEleven eblurb and decided it provides 0 value to the tier and actively deteriorates quality in builder/game. would address ongoing frustrations w mons like hoopa, luna, prim aka mons that have 5 viable items each

encourage people to post their thoughts. include a personal vr if ur eliminated from world cup
 
custap should be banned post-world cup. had a conversation with the greatest minds in 1v1 DripLegend Nuxl RADU Potatochan zioziotrip LittEleven eblurb and decided it provides 0 value to the tier and actively deteriorates quality in builder/game. would address ongoing frustrations w mons like hoopa, luna, prim aka mons that have 5 viable items each

encourage people to post their thoughts. include a personal vr if ur eliminated from world cup

Personally, I could go either way on Custap.

I think it's definitely telling that virtually every one of the top pokemon have a viable custap set, and it definitely makes all of these pokemon just that much harder to counter. It's also incredibly frustrating in match to try and play around a potential custap set. The existence of custap berry makes pokemon like Iron Moth worse, as it's essentially forced to run a niche move to consistently beat things it should otherwise reasonably beat.

That being said, it's definitely a weird ban. It's already a non-pokemon element which goes a bit contrary to established tiering policy. It has been an element in some of our bans as certain banned pokemon like Snorlax, Mimikyu, and Archaludon all ran strong custap sets, but it's not like banning custap berry would realistically make these pokemon healthier.
 
Personally, I could go either way on Custap.

I think it's definitely telling that virtually every one of the top pokemon have a viable custap set, and it definitely makes all of these pokemon just that much harder to counter. It's also incredibly frustrating in match to try and play around a potential custap set. The existence of custap berry makes pokemon like Iron Moth worse, as it's essentially forced to run a niche move to consistently beat things it should otherwise reasonably beat.

That being said, it's definitely a weird ban. It's already a non-pokemon element which goes a bit contrary to established tiering policy. It has been an element in some of our bans as certain banned pokemon like Snorlax, Mimikyu, and Archaludon all ran strong custap sets, but it's not like banning custap berry would realistically make these pokemon healthier.
I think he’s pointing out that the pokémon that benefit from custap shouldn’t be unbanned but the item itself should be banned regardless of a mon that was already banned benefited from it or not
 
here is why i think all current samples we have are bad except 1. I just went through every sample and noted what they lost to or had horrible mus into

https://pokepast.es/ece1ef02d96927ff
loses to opposing lando band val wake av urshifu you also lose to band hands
https://pokepast.es/be7aea6b6458c991
loses to some zapdos scarf hoopa spectrier loses to basculegion
https://pokepast.es/0e69ec9243d0f566
loses to tales
https://pokepast.es/18b340ccb1045fe2
you have to roll val + you also roll tales and you have to also hit head smash vs tales and you have to setguess carona and defensive woger and honestly probably more
https://pokepast.es/5ab71b5d752d9976
has to setguess zapdos has to setguess opposing hoopas and you lose to av hands
https://pokepast.es/469cbf7513528e7b
val setguess you 50/50 prim lose to balloon gross lose to donphan
https://pokepast.es/746a5a80f6de02dc
setguess prim setguess hands setguess gross loses to mana loses to meow loses to ape
https://pokepast.es/08f2a35d9bcfa519
loses to woger loses to prim you 50/50 crown somehow??????????? loses to mana somehow someway it loses to diancie loses to darkrai
https://pokepast.es/ef162e7f6f176df6
just look at the scizor set and its mono thunder bolt

i think we should have higher standards of what can be a sample team. A sample shouldn't lose to multiple S or A tiers because samples serve as an introduction to 1v1 for new players. because if they have bad teams and keep losing on the ladder because the samples lose to Hoopa, they are probably less likely to stay and instead they just go find another format. also none of these samples are in line with the current metagame trends
 
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my-image (2).png


Since I played SV7 in WC I feel qualified enough to post a VR of the current meta. Most of the lower placements are irrelevant order wise and are just tossed randomly on there but I believe everything on this list is a loadable pokemon (bar swampert I added him here to dunk on him screw that guy). If I missed any mons I probably don't rate their value as loadable at this moment.

Most of the meta is just the benefits of being faster than 348 or being able to statcheck mons using high bulk and go from there. Not very fun or organized but it is what it is.

S tier: Luna Shifu benefit hugely from custap sets in addition to ATales being the default agreed better edisabler. Hoopa is very good at forcing weird coverage to be run so it sucks to load a bit but the additions are never free. I feel loading Hoopa is a way to boost your teams preview presence by a bunch and hide sets so its utility as a mon far surpasses its utility in game unlike the other three here. It was one of my most used when I had to hide garbage sets because of how well it stat checks random pokemon. ATales is a lot higher but I'm sure this is a bubble that will break with time. Shifu is a very good mon to load because of Tales' presence meaning you can use scarf more / av without being punished by Val which used to be a lot more common before. Has a lot of good MUs as well and flexible move wise. This is probably what SS Shifu wishes it was. TPunch also kills the basculegion fish thank me when u beat ppl with it in indivs who copy the same set every game.

S- tier: Gross Hoodra are the best steels in the tier for sure. Knock and Counter on Hoodra are easily some of the most evil moves to have to plan around on preview. Gross can run whatever it likes because of its new stab in Psy Fangs meaning its just a lot more powerful as a fighting type answer. Not foolproof though obviously. Spectrier probably enjoys this meta a lot more with the Val drop because you can taunt ATales. Draining Kiss generally performs very well atm, lot of mileage. Its also one of the most anti cheese mons in the sv landscape because of how it interacts with custap; unlike say SS where it gets finessed by every lum pokemon. Expect this guy to drop with time. Val pretty sad but that guys good just give him a few metas to come back around. Zap is good yeah.

A+: The last super serious tier, most of the value these mons bring to the table is being the best of their roles to be good seconds and thirds. Volcanion steep drop off post drago but the Pokemon is very loadable because of its flexibility with items and natural bulk. Scald++ also helps to that end. I like Flare Blitz AV the most followed by Shuca/Balloon then Specs Hyper Beam for just how well it performs vs a random meta mon. I love Wellspring but that guy has 4mss af, atleast she gets cool moves to compensate and force bad sequences. Counter is a decent set but I think every time ive seen it loaded its lost lmao. Manaphy good albeit worse with rise of Tales, LO Alluring cant be default set anymore. Stall is good though. Volcarona kinda bad when forced to load passho. Crown is OK but wp is far worse vs high tier mons, best set is definitely speed booster atm and SPA booster needs to hit focus blasts to win which is like yea i dont like this mon. Could be good into certain structures but I've never been enthused to build with this guy.

A -> solid brings with some static mus that are important. Not that good at finessing stuff though.
A- -> meta mons that suck to load in some form (e.g have to run obese sets to be runnable / one dimensional / end up being weaker because of optimal evs / rely on rolls)
B+ and below -> Fish tier


I couldn't really touch on it but I find Custap to be one of the more ugly parts of the tier because of the low anti item distribution. It definitely shapes a lot of the good pokemon in the tier to become really good because you have to run fat sets to beat them through custap and that decreases those mons loadability. SV is way easier to vibe play with custap yeah, which sucks and you have little downside to loading a lot of those sets minus the loss of random coverage move (NOO MY PSYCHIC MOVE FOR OKIDOGI). I would like other people to talk more about whether they enjoy its presence before deciding on whether to bother suspecting it though because its just a sentiment I have.

also disclaimer ASIA sv was very fragmented don't expect our indiv opinions to line up even though we teamed for like 7 weeks lol. s/o panchams squad deddd bea fancy akeras kaif glitched for helping with the relearning sv journey, i filed away most of the panchams sets to learn with before I started building stuff of my own. thanks for everything!
 
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