Metagame 1v1 Old Gens

[Eeveeto]

Since GSC 1vs 1 is over for me, lets have some nomination from what I saw and experienced with:

Higher than Raikou. Encore is an absurd move in this Tier and really limits counterplay. Barrier, Light Screen, Fire Punch and Toxic all are viable moves that allow Zam to beat what he wants. Grounds and Grasses (except Egg) generally beat Raikou, but not all Steels, Psychics and even Darks (Umbreon can lose to Toxic) consistently beat Zam. He is the best allowed Mon and should be above Raikou.

A > A+ Really flexible Mon. Always (Light Screen + Barrier+ Toxic doesn,t look to be a thing) beats Zam, has a good match-up vs Raikou if EQ and can beat 4 of the other 6 A+ Mons, depending on the set (Starmie and Machamp are the hard Ls). Can also beat the whole A Rank except Vaporeon depending on the set and A- Rank too, excluding Suicune. Of course, it can,t beat everything at the same time, but its very easy to fit into teams and adapt to what you want it to do.

A- > B+. It has an autowin vs Raikou, but so do almost every Ground. Zam match-up is more valuable, but it can still lose to Fire Punch. Almost all of the rest of A and B+ ranks give him huge trouble, most of the time either Marowak, Skarmory or even Scizor are better Mons.

Now, the Unranked Mons army.

UR > B Set used:

Poison Queen (Nidoqueen) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Charm
- Rest
- Poison Sting
- Earthquake

Things that it has better match-up than Nidoking against:
-Non IB Blissey (always outstalls).
-Machamp. Still has a bad match-up, but Nidoking straight up loses this, Nidoqueen has a chance with Charm.
-All Heracross. EQ-less versions just lose. EQ one needs a crit to win.
-Skarmory. At worst, its a Leftovers Skarmory, which ties. If Skarmory doesn,t have Lefties, it always gets outstalled.
-Ursaring. The match-up is still bad (can,t kill fast enough, so will be crit), but Nidoking almost always loses to this.
-Tauros. Crit + another move always kills Nidoking (and it will go for the crit if both use Curse). If the crit happens when Nidoqueen is at full and Tauros is at -6, Nidoqueen will live another move.
-SD and Curse variants of Venusaur.
-Steelix, though still not a good match-up.
-Houndoom. Nidoking only OHKOs this Mon 28% of the time. Nidoqueen never does, but always avoids the 2HKO, while King needs Amnesia to do so. Queen has therefore higher odds to win.
-Jynx. This is still a hard lose, but Queen requires NMI to be OHKOd by Blizzard (and still has higher odds to live one), while King always is (and can,t be OHKOd even without NMI). Crit is the only hope to win (and IB is the optimal play for Jynx user), but Queen can survive one turn more often King.


Other than those, there are some Mons in lower ranks Queen is better against. It is worse against things like Alakazam, Jumpluff, special Venu or Exeggutor, but has enough merits to distinguish from King to be ranked. B looks like the right place, since its a slightly worse King.

UR > B- Set used:

Amphy (Ampharos) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Growl
- Light Screen
- Thunderbolt
- Rest

Similar to Nidoqueen, it works with a PP Stall strategy. Things it beats are:
-Raikou (except Crunch drops and crits).
-Blissey (except many freeze turns or IB + Seismic Toss sets).
-Every water not named Quagsire or not having Mirror Coat (which it can still scout).
-Entei (crits are only chance, but Ampharos hits hard enough to avoid them most of the time).
-Jumpluff (unless Amnesia).
-Articuno (unless Freeze).
-Dragonite (except HP Ground).
-Moltres.
-Charizard
-Houndoom
-Jynx (except freeze)
-Non SD Meganium.

Raikou and Jolteon are obviously better Mons, but I think its on par with Raichu, trading Encore + Reversal with good bulk, higher offensive power and ability to PP Stall some threats. Has a better match-up against both S Rank Mons.

UR >C Set used

Mr. Vampiro (Crobat) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk / 26 Def
- Confuse Ray
- Screech
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Swagger is banned, but Confuse Ray is not. This is the fastest user of the move and has Screech to help its cause. Can win against most of the meta if it haxes enough. Beats every Fight Mon and all Grass ones except Egg without needing to hax. Sub allows it to block Curse from Gengar too.

UR>C Set used:

Lord Helix (Omastar) (M) @ Mystic Water
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Reflect
- Ancient Power

For the most time, its an inferior Starmie. However, it does have a better match-up against Ursaring even if it loses the turn 1 Speed-Tie. It also has higher odds vs Curse Counter Blissey by using Reflect and fishing for freeze when Blissey is awake, and for Ancient Power boosts when its asleep.


UR>B- Set used:

Lava Bosa (Magcargo) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Acid Armor
- Amnesia
- Rest
- Flamethrower

Another PP Stall Mon. Things it can beat:
-Raikou (if not crit, so it can,t be your only check)
-Exeggutor (never 2HKOs, always 2HKOd).
-Blissey (the only way for Bliss to win is to have both Ice Beam and Seismic Toss, fishing freezes).
-Entei (unless 2 HP Fight crits).
-Jolteon ( can go either way, really, depends on the Growth and Amnesia interaction, also rolls).
-Jumpluff
-Skarmory
-EQ Less Tauros: Tauros Double-Edge vs. Magcargo on a critical hit: 113-133 (37.2 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-Venusaur
-Articuno
-Surf and HP Ground less Dragonite.
-Charizard without Dynamic Punch or EQ.
-Houndoom (unless crit, and even then, it does not always KO after one if Mag is a +6).
-Jynx
-Meganium without EQ (no recommended set uses that move).

I think these are enough relevant Mons for it to be a B- at least, maybe a case could be made for B even.

UR>C Didn,t get to use it, but this was the set:

FurritoThePr4h (Furret) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Amnesia
- Curse
- Return
- Rest

Beats (unless hax):
-Raikou
-Egg
-Entei
-Venusaur
-Articuno
-Dragonite
-Moltres
-Suicune
-Gyarados
-Houndoom
-Jynx (unless very high roll of Blizzard T1).
-Kingdra
-Meganium

Can also go toe to toe vs other Curse users. Girafarig and Persian are other normal types that learn Curse + Amnesia, but Furret is bulkier than both of them.

UR>C Had it in the Furret team, so didn,t get to use. Set:


Bosskrow (Murkrow) (M) @ Black Glasses
Ability: No Ability
- Hidden Power [Dark]
- Drill Peck
- Curse
- Rest

Very niche Mon. But beats half of S and A+ ranks:
-Alakazam.
-Egg.
-Heracross
-Machamp (not realiable vs this one, but has the upper hand).

-Jumpluff
-Venu
-Non offensive Gengar (aka 2 sets out of 3).
-Hitmonlee (Drill Peck always prevents it from using Sub, but at the same time is just weak enough to avoid the 150 power Reversal).
-Meganium. And every other Grass type really.

Loses to almost everything else, but chances of encounter the first 4 Mons are very high. 33% of my teams have at least one of them and since Iike to experiment with weird Mons (like Murkrow), the odds will be much higher against other people that are not like me. When I lost the GSC 1 vs 1 tour, the opponent used Alakazam in 3 of 4 games, Heracross in 2 of them and Machamp + Egg in the one Alakazam didn,t appear in. Had I dared to use Murkrow, the result could have been very different.

 

[Trashuny]

The gen 2 tour finally ended, and I had a lot of fun in the tier! So I'm gonna first share some sets I made, then go over my general thoughts on the tier. Then, I'll talk about a potential suspect.

Alakazam

So I watched murman's gen 2 tier list, and a point he made was that he thinks Alakazam has to run encore, psychic, & recover. I have to say, I disagree.

Alakazam @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 216 Spe
- Toxic
- Recover
- Psychic
- Encore

Normal zam with toxic and lefties. Toxic likes to run miracle berry for exeggutor, skarm and other annoying status pokes, but I decided that lefties would be better in the raikou matchup.

Raikou Crunch vs. Alakazam: 142-168 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- 40.7% chance to 2HKO
Raikou Crunch vs. Alakazam: 142-168 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You're faster, so I don't know if it matters a lot, but it did help me vs a starmie's hydro pump. The reduced EVs help vs other Alakazams, for slower encore and toxic damage. I'm not fully sure if slow or fast is generally better, but you only lose out on... dugtrio, with this reduced speed. Not a big deal.

Alakazam @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Barrier
- Psychic
- Recover
- Toxic

I wanted a poke that could beat starmie, marowak, and some other things, so I came up with this set. Even though encore is ridiculous in 1v1, I thought dropping it might not be a huge deal, as a lot of tournament players will try to avoid putting themselves in positions to lose to encore. If an alakazam encores a non attack, you probably lose because once the long encore ends, it can encore you again because of its speed. Anyway, this set helped me a lot in the matchup I got it in https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen21v1-1491594555-i96knoytf6som8wos51opf23p633u1mpw

Alakazam @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Barrier / Counter
- Recover
- Psychic
- Light Screen

A similar idea to the one above. I used this a lot at the end of the tournament. You want barrier for physical attackers like marowak, and light screen for raikou, but you really don't need encore for either. Counter helps vs hidden power bug stuff like exeggutor & slowking using shadow ball.

Alakazam @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 216 Spe
- Psychic
- Recover
- Zap Cannon
- Encore

So after making zap cannon zam for the first time, I had a point where I thought it was stupid. But after some building, I started to like electric coverage for starmie & skarmory. It helps vs the slowtwins, too, I guess. It also helps in the zam ditto. If you want to improve that further, maybe run miracle berry instead of lefties?

Alakazam @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Toxic
- Light Screen
- Encore
- Recover

The anti-dark alakazam.

Tyranitar Crunch vs. Alakazam through Light Screen: 97-114 (30.9 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Houndoom Crunch vs. Alakazam through Light Screen: 103-122 (32.9 - 38.9%) -- 8.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

This set is crazy. I used this a few times in the tournament. With no attacks, you need encore to make sure people don't rest vs you. This set is also good vs Raikou. Sets like these are why I think the poke should be suspected, honestly. Maybe ttar spamming rock slide wins after crunching you? Idk.

Raikou

Raikou @ Mint Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Rest
- Thunderbolt
- Crunch
- Zap Cannon

My first good raikou set. This one tries to beat alakazam as well as possible, even with light screen. If you miss more than 2 zap cannons, you probably lose, unless you get really lucky with paralysis. I'm pretty sure you can miss one and you can still win. Two, maybe, it probably depends on the alakazam set & RNG. Rest mint is really, really good. I think it's way better than lefties, getting to 100% in one turn is better than slowly regenerating health.

Raikou @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Rest
- Thunderbolt
- Crunch / Psych Up
- Reflect

Miracle (lum) instead of mint (chesto) helps vs some stuff. Raikou doesn't really want to be sleeping, it means reflect can wear off and stuff. I think this is the best raikou set overall. Magnet is cool too. This set just does not care about a lot of physical attackers. I used it vs XSC, and I kind of choked, but won regardless. Psych up is cool, too, but I like to just attack instead of copy curses a lot of the time.

Raikou @ Mint Berry
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk / 26 Def
- Reflect
- Rest
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Water]

Beats steelix & rhydon.

Raikou @ Mint Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Toxic
- Rest
- Protect
- Reflect

As good as you can get vs tyranitar. I think you lose if they screech 3 times in a row, hit, and you don't get a double protect.

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk / 26 Def
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Thunderbolt
- Crunch

I used this to c-team Elo bandit. I just thought it was funny. Toxic & Crunch is good for exeggutor. HP flying for heracross of course. It makes your physical bulk a lot worse, but with no reflect or rest I wasn't counting on this to be my physical tank.

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk / 26 Def
- Rest
- Curse
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Return

Curse with HP Flying over tbolt. Yeah, it's kind of bad.

Here's some more raikous I made when I was new to the meta. They suck.

Bad sets

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt
- Crunch

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Def
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

They suck because Raikou sleep talk is really inconsistent. Raikou doesn't have to make games come down to RNG.

Machamp

Machamp @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Scary Face
- Encore
- Cross Chop
- Earthquake

Scary face & encore is a ridiculously good combo. I'll talk more about Machamp's viability later. Miracle berry secures the raikou matchup as much as possible; I didn't want to be ruined by paralysis.

Raikou Thunder vs. Machamp: 159-187 (41.5 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Eeveeto had been using thunder raikou at least once, so I wanted to have the best possible chances vs that. I needed that on the team I used it on, the partners were toxic barrier zam and houndoom, who are not great vs crunch raioku. Not having curse is actually quite a nuisence, I think it means you can lose to ursaring that wins a speed tie. But I think scary face + encore makes up for that; ursarings should not expect to win at team preview, anyway.

Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Light Screen
- Curse
- Cross Chop
- Earthquake

The set I originally wanted to use vs Eeveeto, before realizing it was a bit outclassed by scary face. Still, this set has curse and light screen, meaning you can easily weaken the opponent. I thought it was cool. Probably helps vs stuff like suicune, kingdra, and other special attackers. This set probably also performs better vs ursaring.

Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Cross Chop
- Counter
- Curse / Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Skarmory doesn't want to be encored, so it probably has to drill peck turn 2. Counter beats this, and fire blast is extra safe and covers them cursing.

Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Cross Chop
- Counter
- Curse
- Earthquake

Tries to beat marowak.

Starmie

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Substitute
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Psychic

This is not a new set or anything, but I just wanted to highlight that this set beats every grass type (with sub & ice beam) besides miracle seed HP grass meganium, which you have 2 chances to freeze, anyway. Blocking giga drain is huge.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect
- Surf

Starmie @ Mystic Water
Ability: No Ability
- Reflect
- Recover
- Surf
- Psychic

Both try to beat physical attackers like ursaring that hit harder than you. The toxic one is definitely better & less crit prone.

Starmie @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Icy Wind
- Toxic
Tries to beat alakazam as well as possible. Probably comes down to a bit of RNG with hydro pump accuracy and light screen using encore on toxic.

Starmie @ Scope Lens / Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Zap Cannon
- Recover
- Ice Beam

Kind of the same thing, probably worse.

Starmie @ Scope Lens
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 6 HP / 28 Atk / 24 Def
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt

I wanted to beat vaporeon, scizor, & marowak in one poke. Starmie's coverage is so good.

Starmie Hidden Power Fire vs. Scizor: 234-276 (68.2 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Scizor Hidden Power Bug vs. Starmie: 205-242 (68.5 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Both of these doing almost the exact same is funny.

Magnet Starmie Thunderbolt vs. Vaporeon: 156-184 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- 27% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I didn't like this chance, so I figured a 12.5% chance to crit each turn would be better odds. Starmie doesn't really need lefties.

Starmie @ Scope Lens
Ability: No Ability
- Substitute
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Another counterteam. You only need surf vs houndoom tyranitar & steelix, and they expect it, so if you have good teammates you can go all in on starmie's coverage.

Starmie @ Magnet
Ability: No Ability
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
Helps vs other starmie. Just don't fight miracle berry.

Starmie Thunderbolt vs. Starmie: 153-180 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 19.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Magnet Starmie Thunderbolt vs. Starmie: 166-196 (51.3 - 60.6%) -- 93.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Tyranitar

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Screech
- Earthquake

Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. Tyranitar: 350-412 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
Thick Club Marowak Earthquake vs. Tyranitar: 348-410 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 12.8% chance to OHKO
Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. Marowak: 154-182 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO

You don't really need amazing luck to beat marowak without nevermeltice but with ice beam. I thought lefties would be good for stuff, maybe a raikou that I miss a screech against, or something. This set probably loses to articuno and moltres without rock slide, but I can't think of much else you lose to without it. Gyarados?

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 6 HP / 24 Atk / 24 Def
- Crunch
- Screech
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Tyranitar Hidden Power Fighting vs. Tyranitar: 231-272 (57.3 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tyranitar Earthquake vs. Tyranitar: 170-200 (44.8 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tyranitar Earthquake vs. -2 [Lowered DVs] Tyranitar: 336-396 (88.6 - 104.4%) -- 28.2% chance to OHKO

The lowered DVs suck here. I probably should have calced more when I made this set instead of doing it after, but this set is fine. It can lose vs other tyranitars, unfortunately, but they need to hit a screech, win the second speed tie & high roll an eq to win vs you. You need lefties on this set, or else:

Raikou Thunderbolt vs. [Lowered DVs] Tyranitar: 114-135 (30 - 35.6%) -- 31.9% chance to 3HKO

I find interesting to see when a poke needs lefties and when it doesn't in this gen, Idk.

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Nightmare
- Thunderbolt
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Beats ice beam vaporeon. Piyush was running it the whole tour. Then he used surf ;_;

Marowak

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Bonemerang
- Rock Slide

Helps vs non nevermeltice blissey, and I think no one runs that.

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: No Ability
- Bonemerang
- Rock Slide
- Icy Wind
- Submission

Marowak Icy Wind vs. Tyranitar: 27-32 (6.6 - 7.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Thick Club Marowak Submission vs. Tyranitar: 377-444 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- 61.5% chance to OHKO

I saw a lot of nevermeltice tyranitar, so I decided that Icy wind & submission would be a good lure for that. Murman said that bonemerang might have a better chance to kill, maybe that's true. You have to hit an icy wind & submission to win though, and avoid an ice beam crit or freeze. I did not avoid the crit ;_;

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Dynamic Punch

Good for bad situations, I guess.

Exeggutor

Exeggutor @ Scope Lens
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Atk / 26 Def
- Leech Seed
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Synthesis
Raikou Crunch vs. Exeggutor: 166-196 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Exeggutor Hidden Power Bug vs. Alakazam on a critical hit: 302-356 (96.4 - 113.7%) -- 79.5% chance to OHKO

Designed to combat all the alakazam & raikou spam in the tournament. Not particularly reliable against both, a lucky crunch raikou can mess you up & you are only barely favored to beat toxic zam.

Exeggutor @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Stun Spore
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed
- Psychic / Giga Drain

Tries to be better vs raikou, I guess?

Exeggutor @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Toxic
- Psychic
- Protect
- Leech Seed

I don't remember what this set was for, honestly.

Steelix

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Screech
- Earthquake
- Body Slam
- Rest

I wanted to make the alakazam matchup more reliable without something like scope lens, so I found body slam. Non fire punch or stoss zam (both underrated sets) don't do much to you.

Alakazam Psychic vs. Steelix: 79-93 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk / 26 Def
- Screech
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Body Slam

What do you think HP flying does?

Skarmory

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Curse
- Drill Peck
- Rest
- Leer

The combination of leer and curse is so underrated. I think leer and zap cannon are the most underrated moves in the tier. Leer on skarmory helps you easily win curse wars and not care about counter. Example of being able to play around counter is here https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen21v1-1464143843-y3oohtyz6lrl07baiaszrzzz7v86hw7pw

I don't think I saw anyone else use leer on anything, but I think it is really good. It makes matchups, especially vs something like blissey, way more reliable, and actually allows you to win cleanly.

Slowking

Slowking @ Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Shadow Ball
- Icy Wind
- Psychic / Zap Cannon / Ice Beam / Rest

Alakazam can't do much to this guy. Early on in gen 2 1v1, slowbro and slowking were considered pretty much the same. But slowking is just better, you beat crunch tyranitar and icy wind lets you beat Marowak. You can try out scope lens, but miracle berry is much more reliable, so you don't have to worry about toxic.

Kingdra

Kingdra @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk / 26 Def
- Substitute
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Flying]
Helps vs grass-types and herarcoss. Kingdra just spamming surf is good vs a lot.

Kingdra @ Mint Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Curse
- Rest
- Return
- Surf

Good vs starmie, & other stuff.

Houndoom

Houndoom @ Mint Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Sunny Day
- Rest
Magnet Raikou Thunderbolt vs. Houndoom: 145-171 (41 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Houndoom Fire Blast vs. Raikou in Sun: 207-244 (54 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You sunny day, rest, and then need to hit 2 fire blasts. Honestly, you don't lose much from running this set. From what I've calced, you don't really need charcoal for any specific matchup.

Houndoom @ Black Glasses
Ability: No Ability
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Crunch
- Fire Blast

Black Glasses Houndoom Crunch vs. Slowking: 190-224 (48.3 - 56.9%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Black glasses is for better rolls on slowking. Sunny day & solarbeam are filler moves. Maybe helps vs vaporeon, definitely ice beam.

Houndoom @ Black Glasses
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Def
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower / Counter

HP ice beats dragonite. Don't think I saw anyone use that before

Ursaring

Ursaring @ Polkadot Bow
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 6 HP / 24 Atk / 24 Def
- Curse
- Return
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Polkadot Bow Ursaring Return vs. Marowak: 136-160 (42.1 - 49.5%) -- 60% chance to 2HKO
Polkadot Bow Ursaring Hyper Beam vs. Marowak: 201-237 (62.2 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. -2 Ursaring: 245-289 (68.2 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ursaring Hidden Power Fighting vs. Tyranitar: 228-268 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You beat marowak reliably. You don't lose to counter, either. You also beat a tyranitar that is not particularly lucky.

Scizor

Scizor @ Scope Lens
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Atk / 26 Def
- Swords Dance
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Wing Attack
- Toxic
Toxic is good for forcing things to rest, I guess? You only really need the first 3 moves. Scope lens helps vs barrier zam, Idk why I didn't use it more.

Scizor @ Mint Berry
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Atk / 26 Def
- Swords Dance
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Wing Attack
- Rest
This set beats non-reflect raikou, similar to how the houndoom does. Unfortunately, almost all of them are reflect right now.

Gyarados

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk / 26 Def
- Toxic
- Protect
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Beats a lot of non rest pokes that think they can out power you, like ursaring.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Rest
- Body Slam
- Toxic
- Leer
This counterteamed someone. Probably beats blissey. I really don't remember why I made it.

Meganium

Meganium @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
Happiness: 0
- Swords Dance
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Frustration
I kind of took the venusaur I liked to run and made it a meganium. I needed to not be weak to psychic, initially.

Meganium @ Miracle Seed
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 6 HP / 28 Atk / 28 Def
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Leech Seed
- Earthquake
- Synthesis

Miracle Seed Meganium Hidden Power Grass vs. Starmie: 163-192 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 82.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Starmie Ice Beam vs. Meganium: 137-162 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The most consistent grass-type vs starmie. And by that, I mean you need to not be crit or frozen & get the 82.2% chance to 2HKO. EQ actually damages raikou while it's asleep. I was messing around with poisonpowder to PP stall and force raikou to burn rests, but it just crunch drops you.

Meganium @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Atk / 26 Def
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed / Counter
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
Helps vs exeggutor.

Rhydon

Rhydon @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk / 26 Def
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Leer
- Hidden Power [Flying]

I know, HP flying is exciting. Leer helps win curse wars, and I guess is better blissey.

Entei

Entei @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Toxic

People think this set loses to vaporeon? Well, it doesn't, at least with lefties.

Entei Solar Beam vs. Vaporeon: 166-196 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- 94.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vaporeon Surf vs. Entei in Sun: 129-152 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 Vaporeon Surf vs. Entei in Sun: 195-230 (45 - 53.1%) -- 0.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Entei @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk
- Curse
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Fire Blast
- Rest

Idk why, but I wanted HP ground.


Entei @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Toxic
- Leer
- Fire Blast
- Return / HP Fighting
Beats blissey, I think.

Piloswine

Piloswine @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk / 26 Def
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Curse
- Hidden Power [Flying]

HP flying

Umbreon

Umbreon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 6 Atk
- Growth
- Hidden Power [Dark]
- Rest
- Zap Cannon
With umbreon, you actually have to go out of your way to beat toxic zam. It's sad

Moltres

Moltres @ Sharp Beak
Ability: No Ability
- Agility
- Fire Blast
- Toxic
- Sky Attack

This set is for alakazam. You agility up & see if they're light screen or not. Then, sky attack does ridiculous damage.

Jolteon

Jolteon @ Soft Sand
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Tail Whip
- Toxic
In the middle of the tournament, Raikous started running psych up to beat curse users, jolteon, & other stuff. So I adapted back, and made a set that goes all in on beating raikou. Unfortunately, you are much worse vs zam & pretty much everything else.

Raichu

Raichu @ Mint Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Charm
- Rest
- Thunderbolt
- Encore

I made this before I saw the power of reflect raikou. This set is a good lure, though. Encore is always good.

So now, my viability rankings I made. Thanks Murman for the idea and the template.

I'll give some short descriptions now, of what I think about each poke (only the decent ones) and why I think they should be ranked there. My criteria is pretty simple. If the pokemon is good in gen 2, it's just good. With no EVs & small movepools, pokes are generally straightforward. Things like base stats (huge in gen 2), metagame matchups, easiness to put on teams & how much of a niche it actually has contribute to viability in gen 2.

Explanations

Alakazam: This poke & starmie both in my opinion make the metagame very psychic-centric. Psychic types in this generation have very limited counterplay. You have a few good dark types, heracross, a few good steel types, & other psychic-types, mostly. Like I said earlier, I don't think alakazam is limited to much. It has so many possible good sets. Its one drawback is that it is prone to hax. You have to avoid crits and drops and if you're toxic, hit your toxic.
Raikou: I thought raikou was a healthy top poke at first, but as I kept building, I realized it had more tools than I thought. It is also the opposite of alakazam on the hax side of things; with thunderbolt paras and crunch drops, it can easily spam moves hoping to hax you. Raikou also usually lasts a whle, letting it go for many crits. It beats so much of the metagame with reflect, it is crazy. Its typing ultimately gives it a lot of counterplay, though. Raikou is still very, very good. Not really banworthy, at least just yet.
Starmie: Yeah. I think starmie is s- tier, and the third best poke in the tier. I'll explain. Starmie's stats are quite good. It hits hard and is bulky enough. It also outspeeds almost the entire tier. With just amazing coverage, there is very limited counterplay outside raikou, heracross & blissey. It can also beat alakazam and ursaring with the two different sets I linked earlier. Water, electric, ice, & psychic destroys most of the tier. You can get creative with its items and moves. Scope lens in particular lets you keep going for crits in a longer match like vaporeon. Starmie is ridiculous, and I think outclasses a lot of other water-types.
Machamp: When I first saw murman put machamp at S-, I disagreed. But then I realized how many teams I had to put a psychic-type on just because machamp using encore wins so many matchups. It also has a flexible moveset.
Tyranitar: Beats alakazam & raikou. That is big. The A rank kind of just beats it, but those pokes are so common that tyranitar is a great poke. Has good coverage options, too. Beating blissey is good, as well.
Marowak: Ridiculously strong. Hard to be reliable against. Has more good moves than you would think.
Exeggutor: Has a lot of good tools, good poke, but I struggle to find one set that really shines.
Steelix: With body slam, beats zam and raikou. Has other good matchups as a steel type, too. Very similar to tyranitar.
Vaporeon: Piyush used it a lot, and when I used it a few times it seemed unkillable. Hax prone when it's resting, though.
Heracross: Beats psychic types! But HP flying spam is awful for heracross. Also has big 4MSS.
Skarmory: Destroys a lot of physical attackers. Awesome.
Slowking: Way higher than everyone else would put it, I know, but it is very anti-metagame and is a big winner of the psychic centric metagame. Can beat 5/6 of the best pokes in the tier.
Venusaur: Haven't used it as much lately, with all the psychic spam. But it's still really good. Sub is really nice, if meganium had it venusaur would face stiff competition.
Blissey: I think really overrated. Does no damage. Gets crit. Not a big winner of the psych up raikou trend or how much alakazam there is. Also doesn't like how gen 2 crits work. Has big 4MSS.
Blissey Double-Edge vs. Kingdra on a critical hit: 104-123 (29.4 - 34.8%) -- 10.2% chance to 3HKO
For example. Growl is probably good.
Kingdra: Good stats, good typing. Spamming surf can win a lot of matchups. Has a good movepool. Best when not trying to be a jack of all trades, I think. I like kingdras that have a specific role.
Houndoom: Beats some annoying pokes! It's good to get zam, exeggutor & heracross out of the way.
Ursaring: I used to think it was really, really overrated, now I just think it's a bit overrated. I think the most annoying thing to deal with when it comes to ursaring is slash crits. But if it's not critting you and not abusing polkadot bow, it's probably losing. Loser of reflect raikou spam. I just think it's gotten worse over time. A bit reliant on crits.
Tauros: Fast version of ursaring, without crits. I think it's good but I think normal types aren't that good with all the reflect raikou and psychic types.
Jumpluff: Annoying. Kind of better in practice than on paper, at least from what I've played.
Draognite: Overrated. Hits like a wet noodle and doesn't have as many valuable matchups as people think. Its coverage reminds me of starmie, but just use that poke, honestly.
Porygon2: 4MSS, but has recovery and good stats. Sharpen also helps vs psych up raikou. You have to be careful when using it, has some bad high tier matchups, but can feel unkillable when not fighting them.
Scizor: Kind of like houndoom. Beats good pokes. Also beats most starmie and is a steel-type.
Meganium: Has some amazing matchups. Better vs starmie & slowtwins, and I think now there's not much that wants to toxic meganium.
Gyarados: Just use starmie Imo, but is okay on its own.
Rhydon: Good physical tank, good ground-type, but unfortunately loses to ice beam tyranitar.
Slowbro: Just use starmie or slowking, probably. Maybe better vs ursaring?
Entei: The fire typing is pretty good, and the stats are cool. Jack of all trades master of none.
Dodrio: Even though I think normals have gotten worse, still seems cool.
Piloswine: Has some good matchups
Nidoking: Crazy movepool
Quagsire: Good typing, unfortunately everything else is kind of bad.
Umbreon: 4MSS and doesn't do much.
Muk: 4MSS, bad vs psychic-types and raikou nope, you beat raikou, but struggle with earthquakers.
Jynx: Can probably beat alakazam with like, icy wind & rest, but ice types don't really do much Imo. Relying on blizzard is also bad. At least it can go for freezes.
Moltres: I guess beats machamp and houndoom does not.
Jolteon: Just way worse than raikou. Huge loser of psych up spam. Outclassed.
Articuno: Doesn't really do much in the current metagame, kind of like jynx. I would rather use a starmie than an ice type, honestly.
Mantine: Seems cool, haven't used it
Going to stop going over everything and only go over some
Suicune: You would think it has something unique, but not really. I guess mirror coat, which can be played around. Raikou isn't in a rush to thunderbolt you.
Mr. Mime: Bad, but a winner of an alakazam ban. No instant recovery is awful.
Hitmonlee: Idk why people say it's good, it's not
Clefairy (not clefable): Actually kind of good, unfortunately hax prone with bad stats
Chansey: Does this thing actually do damage? I can't believe this tier found a use for lucky punch, though.
Gengar: Thought it would be good, it's not. Kind of a worse starmie. Curse is cool for blissey. Definitely a winner of a potential alakazam ban.
Electabuzz: Use raikou
Smeargle: Actually has potential
Murkrow: Beats some valuable stuff, has the chance to maybe rise higher. Awful stats, just terrible though.

So now that all of that's done, I'll talk about another topic some gen 2 players have been discussino.

Alakazam in Gen 2​

At the top level of gen 2, a huge portion of the meta centers around alakazam and its counterplay. There really isn't much. There's a few good dark types, heracross, & the steel types (steelix, scizor, & skarmory can win). You have other psychic types like slowking that in some way don't lose to toxic. But overall, I think alakazam is a bad presence in the metagame and should be suspected. For gen 2 standards, its movepool is enormous, and is arguably the best movepool in the tier when it comes to the good pokes after the zapdos ban. It has a variety of ways to win games, ranging from toxic, to stall, to even using coverage. Alakazam has a laughably small pool of pokes to reliably beat it. What may be good vs some sets may lose to a miracle berry or a set with barrier & light screen, for example. Alakazam is also a big user of encore, which forces the opponent to just mindlessly throw attacks at it and hope they win the game. This comes down to RNG a lot of the time, which is really the only drawback of using alakazam whatsoever; it is quite prone to crits and secondary effects. Some players resort to using scope lens to try to fish for crits that otherwise lose the matchup. I think because of these factors, alakazam is a negative presence in the teambuilder and in game. It has a variety of sets with customizability most gen 2 pokemon could only dream of, and makes many games come down to pure RNG. It is overall broken and quite unhealthy at the top level of gen 2.

The tier is really fun in my opinion, if you ignore stressful alakazam spam at the end of a tournament. It's just a very simple 1v1 tier. No EVs means you can calc and figure out an entire matchup in seconds, as well as build teams more productively. There actually is hax in this tier, but I don't know why people act like that is a tier exclusive thing. I know, it's "gen 2 1v1 lol", I thought it wasn't something noteworthy at first, but it is a very unique generation.

That's all I have to say about gen 2. I hope this is just the beginning, it's an interesting tier! Here is the discord, we have an active community! https://discord.gg/X8au84kH8h Also, here's all my gen 2 teams. https://pokepast.es/407c4e73128c497b

 

[XSTATIC COLD]

I just disagree on putting aerodactyl in D, cause i tested a set, and it beats both raikou + alakazam , and others mons like exeggutor, skarmory, steelix, entei... and others.

Aerodactyl @ Soft Sand
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Atk / 26 Def
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Earthquake
- Ancient Power
- Fire Blast

Why soft sand + earthquake?

Soft Sand Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. Raikou: 197-232 (51.4 - 60.5%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

(without soft sand) Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. Raikou: 180-212 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 16.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Why hp bug?

Aerodactyl Hidden Power Bug vs. Alakazam: 165-194 (52.7 - 61.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Aerodactyl Hidden Power Bug vs. Exeggutor: 231-272 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Why fire blast?

Aerodactyl Fire Blast vs. Heracross: 131-154 (38.6 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Aerodactyl Fire Blast vs. Steelix: 166-196 (47 - 55.5%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO (if steelix hasn't iron tail, you win)

Aerodactyl Fire Blast vs. Skarmory: 159-188 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 87.6% chance to 2HKO

It also beats scizor ofc.

Ancient Power is for articuno, (2hko), moltres, charizard. Anyway you still can have a chance to boost all your stats so it's worth.

To conclude, aerodactyl beats 100% alakazam and nearly everytime raikou (94%), but is able to beat other high tier mons.
That's why i'd put it in C tier cause it's always good to have a mon which beats both kazam and raikou, no matter the sets they have.
Anyway you can still change the moves, like putting a fly move for machamp or to beats heracross 100%.
You can put hp fight for tyranitar, or even using charcoal to have a better chance to beat steelix and skarmory.

Charcoal Aerodactyl Fire Blast vs. Steelix: 182-214 (51.5 - 60.6%) -- 93.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Charcoal Aerodactyl Fire Blast vs. Skarmory: 175-206 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- 99.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[SuperMemeBroz]

yea Trashuny mentioned in his post. The Alakazam suspect were to happen at some point. This has 135 SpA and 120 Speed so you are going to outspeed most things. It has encore so if you don’t attack it t1 and you are slower, you lose. It runs barrier and light screen to deal with physical moves and special moves respectively. This has caused Pokémon to run scope lens in order to crit through it and hopefully win. It also runs toxic+encore to deal with mons such as Blissey or even Politoed. Also it can run elemental punches to beat other stuff that it normally loses to.

Here I will mention the MOST NOTABLE Alakazam checks/counters

you lose to light screen unless spdef crunch drops
you win if you hit all of your megahorns
this is what I was talking about. You need scope lens + slash to crit through barrier
one of the only things that beats it regardless of set (attract is banned)
loses to barrier
you can win depending on set
you lose to fire punch
you lose to fire punch
crunch + espeed was made to tech zam
you should win regardless of set (unless it’s light screen toxic but crunch spdef drops on that should also beat that set)
you lose to light screen and you have to hit fire blast but sky attack should win
loses to toxic stall
You use scope lens hp bug to try and break through but still loses to fire punch
not notable but some hp dark scope lens set was made to beat it (just use hp ghost. Dragonite has better attack and Alakazam has poor defense and ghost and dark are literally the same offensively) you lose to ice punch regardless
this can actually beat zam but you lose to thunder/ice punch


I will now show off some sets I made to tech Alakazam

Set 1

Raikou @ Scope Lens
IVs: 22 HP / 26 Atk / 28 Def
- Crunch
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Thunderbolt
- Rest

This was made to beat light screen Alakazam as you scout t1 with crunch and if they are ls, you hp ghost them and if they are for god knows both ls and barrier, you try to crit.

Set 2

Crobat @ Spell Tag
IVs: 22 HP / 26 Atk / 28 Def
- Screech
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Wing Attack
- Giga Drain

An unranked mon at the moment. This 50/50 zam with hp ghost + screech and you’re faster

Set 3

Flareon @ Scope Lens
- Growth
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Curse

Another unranked mon. Scope lens to try to break through barrier zam with a powerful 130 base attack physical ball with good spdef even.

People might say zam should be banned is cause it basically chooses what it wants to beat and being generally unhealthy for the meta while others will argue it’s good but not quite broken with quite a few Pokémon that can mostly reliably beat it. But enough with my rambling it’s time for the suspect.

People will be eligible to participate in the Alakazam suspect if they are/have done the following:
Are a VR council member
Have gotten to Round 7 in the GSC 1v1 Startup Tournament which the following have done:
doc1203
XSTATIC COLD
Revenge Killer
Clouds
Vileman
Jamez
SoulWind
mocrokiller2
Micoy
Kenix
Eeveeto
Blui
SpectralThief
Chiles Habaneros
piyush master

The suspect will run until February 6t at 11:59 PM EST.
If Alakazam receives a supermajority (>66.6%) of ban votes, it will be removed from GSC 1v1.

EDIT: Original Date was the 11th to give people a good amount of time a chance to vote but since almost everyone has voted within the first few days, we have moved the date to the 6th as there are still some few who need to vote.

 

[Elo Bandit]

Some thoughts on Alakazam in GSC 1v1~
Alakazam is currently being suspect tested, and for good reason. During the GSC Startup Tour, Alakazam maintained a 60% win rate and took home the silver medal for usage, only losing out to Raikou.

more stats

usage graphic

winrates graphic

all stats

graph

Alakazam is a reliable and versatile threat in GSC 1v1, able to Encore-lock boosters and walls like Vaporeon while 2HKOing Fighting and Poison types with its speedy Psychic.

Alakazam's Primary Set

Alakazam @ Leftovers
- Psychic
- Recover
- Encore

Beats Blissey, most Dragonite, Fighting Types: Machamp, Primeape, Hitmonlee, Poison Types: Venusaur, Muk, Gengar, Nidoking, Water Types: Vaporeon, Starmie, Gyarados, Suicune, Kingdra, Politoed, and Quagsire.

4th move A
- Barrier
Beats Physical Attackers (unless crit): Marowak, Ursaring, Tauros, non-HP Dark Dragonite, Kangaskhan, Rhydon, and Shadow Ball users.

4th move B
- Light Screen
Beats Special Attackers (unless crit): Raikou, Jolteon, Electabuzz, Raichu, Entei, Typhlosion, Charizard, and Jynx.

4th move C
- Toxic
Beats Stall Pokemon: Exeggutor, Blissey, Porygon2, and opposing Toxic users.

4th move D
- Fire Punch
Beats Steel Types: Steelix, Skarmory, and Scizor.

4th move E
- Zap Cannon
Has the edge against opposing Alakazam and some Psychic resists (s/o to Trashuny for this tech).

Item options: Leftovers or Miracle Berry (GSC Lum Berry)
Opposing Toxic, Stun Spore, Thunder Wave, or Zap Cannon users hoping to slow down or stall out Alakazam can potentially be lured with Miracle Berry, though Leftovers lets Alakazam absorb multiple hits much more reliably, and is generally preferred in most matchups.

Alakazam's Counters

Bug Types: Heracross, Scyther
Dark Types: Tyranitar, Houndoom, Umbreon, Murkrow
Dark Coverage: HP Dark Dragonite, Crunch Raikou (usually)
Speed Control Special Attackers: Articuno, Moltres, Arcanine, Mr. Mime
Toxic + Protect Users: Meganium, Steelix, Xatu, etc.
Critical Hits: Scope Lens Slash Ursaring, Scope Lens HP Bug users

Alakazam's Unsets

Lure sets designed to beat specific Pokemon. However, each of these "unsets" suffers significant opportunity cost compared to Alakazam's primary Encore set.

Unset #1: Sub Psychic

Alakazam @ Leftovers
- Substitute
- Protect
- Psychic
- Toxic / Barrier

Beats Heracross (fishes for a Megahorn miss or 2HKOs with Psychic reading an accurate move vs Sub), at the expense of not being able to use Encore (incompatible with Sub) and no longer beating Blissey, Rest users, Vaporeon, Suicune, Kingdra, or Politoed.

Unset #2: Sub Toss

Alakazam @ Leftovers
- Toxic
- Protect
- Substitute
- Seismic Toss

Beats Tyranitar at the expense of being able to use Encore (incompatible with Sub) and no longer beating Dragonite, Marowak, Blissey, some Rest users, Venusaur, Muk, Gengar, Nidoking, Vaporeon, Suicune, Kingdra, Politoed, Quagsire, Raikou, Jolteon, Entei, Jynx, Typhlosion, Electabuzz, or Raichu.

Unset #3: Slow Anti Mirror

Alakazam @ Miracle Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
IVs: 26 HP / 24 Spe
- Encore
- Recover
- Psychic
- Toxic

Has the edge against opposing Alakazam at the expense of no longer beating Pokemon faster than 85 Base Speed: Magmar, Xatu, Jynx, Kangaskhan, Raichu, Dodrio, Typhlosion, Entei, Charizard, Miltank, Kangaskhan, Jumpluff, Tauros, and Raikou, as well as Marowak, Ursaring, Tauros, non-HP Dark Dragonite, Rhydon, and Shadow Ball users.

Slow Alakazam can drop as much speed as it wants, depending on what matchups it wants to keep and how badly it wants an advantage in the mirror (see Trashuny's post above).

Unset #4: Elemental Coverage

Alakazam @ Leftovers
- Psychic
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

Beats Steel Types: Steelix, Skarmory, Scizor, Ice-Weaks: Dragonite, Jumpluff, and Electric-Weaks: Gyarados and some Starmie, at the expense of no longer beating Exeggutor, Porygon2, Blissey, Rest users, Vaporeon, Suicune, Kingdra, or Politoed.

Unset #5: Screen Barrier

Alakazam @ Leftovers
- Psychic
- Recover
- Light Screen
- Barrier

Alakazam bluffs Encore and uses Light Screen and Barrier to win both Physical and Special matchups: Physical Attackers (unless crit): Marowak, Ursaring, Tauros, non-HP Dark Dragonite, Kangaskhan, Miltank, Rhydon, and Shadow Ball users, Special Attackers (unless crit): Raikou (sometimes), Jolteon, Entei, Jynx, Typhlosion, Electabuzz, Raichu, and Charizard. This comes at the expense of no longer beating Exeggutor, Porygon2, Blissey, Rest users, Vaporeon, Starmie, Kingdra, or Politoed.

Alakazam Teams

Slow Zam Godsquad
Dodrio Zam
Dewgong Zam
Golem Zam
Slow Zam Hera
Slow Zam Champ
Heracross Lure Zam
Tyranitar Lure Zam
Elemental Zam

Though it has a wide range of options, Alakazam has enough opportunity cost tied to each of its sets that it shouldn't be considered broken. It's not difficult to discern what moves Alakazam probably has based on its team's weaknesses at preview. No single Alakazam set is difficult to counter, and it's not too hard to beat the vast majority of Alakazam sets with one Pokemon in teambuilder. I'll likely be voting against a ban though I understand how some perceive Alakazam as unpredictable or overcentralizing.

 

[Elo Bandit]

People will be eligible to participate in the Alakazam suspect if they are/have done the following:
Are a VR council member
Have gotten to Round 7 in the GSC 1v1 Startup Tournament

The suspect will run until February 6th at 11:59 PM EST.
If Alakazam receives a supermajority (>66.6%) of ban votes, it will be removed from GSC 1v1.

Suspect voting has concluded. With fourteen ban votes and six keep votes out of a pool of twenty, Alakazam has exceeded the supermajority threshold and will be banned from GSC 1v1.

Votes

Votes
Keep (6): Elo Bandit, Eeveeto, Jamez, Superstrike66, SpectralThief, Micoy
Ban (14): SuperMemeBroz, RTM, XSTATIC COLD, Mocrokiller2, Revenge Killer, Urfgurgle, Murman, Trashuny, Chiles Habaneros, Vileman, Piyush Master, doc1203, Blui, Clouds
Abstain (2): SoulWind, Kenix

Reasoning

Keep

Though it has a wide range of options, Alakazam has enough opportunity cost tied to each of its sets that it shouldn't be considered broken. It's not difficult to discern what moves Alakazam probably has based on its team's weaknesses at preview. No single Alakazam set is difficult to counter, and it's not too hard to beat the vast majority of Alakazam sets with one Pokemon in teambuilder. - Elo Bandit

It’s not broken. - Jamez

It dominates the tier with Encore + high speed but there is enough counterplay and adaptation. - Eeveeto

While I think Alakazam is the best pokemon in the tier and is very versatile, I don't think it's broken at this moment. Thanks to its versatile movepool, it can run many "unsets" to beat different checks/counters. However, this means that it has to give up running its standard Encore set, which costs it a few MUs. Because of this opportunity cost, I think Alakazam is fine in the tier. - Superstrike66

Sure, Alakazam is one of the strongest in the meta rn, but it does have some checks that easily neutralize it's strength. - Micoy

Ban

It can beat what it chooses to beat. Yea it’s frail but it has barrier and light screen and we’re at a state where you need scope lens to try to break through it. - SuperMemeBroz

Overcentralizing, can beat whatever it wants to, preview vs it can be fairly hard, and can run a lot of different good sets with low opportunity cost; overall broken. - RTM

While Alakazam's sets can be dealt with individually, it is almost impossible to deal with them all at once. It is true that there is some opportunity cost in running certain Zam sets, but the mon's versatility nonetheless makes it a nightmare to go up against - both in the builder and in preview. There are next to zero hard counters to Alakazam when building, so picking often comes down to guessing which set it may be running. Since Zam beats so much of the meta with most of its sets, it is very easy to disguise it and even run an "unset" (a set lacking one or more of its core moves, encore and recover) to bait the opponent's Zam check. Because Alakazam's presence in the tier is so overwhelmingly oppressive and limiting, I consider the mon broken and vote to ban it. - Urfgurgle

I'm like 60-40 but I think a Zamless metagame would be healthier. It has answers and can be crit though but fast encore is just dumb. - Murman

Very bad for the tier at a top level. - Trashuny

Too broken with encore toxic recover and psychic type. Too few counters. - XSTATIC COLD

Limits building a lot. - Revenge Killer

Way too good against pretty much any physical attacker with encore + barrier with its speed tier. Just beats so much of the metagame that if you don't run the specific stuff that beats it you're ded, and that restricts building a lot. - Vileman

As pointed by many others, alakazam is a negative presence in the Meta and it restricts the team-building to an extent. I remember running Scope Lens egg to counter it and ofc rng fishing can't be healthy for any meta. - Piyush Master

In my opinion is a mon that is extremely centralizing and restricts the variety of teams because it has very few counters, and a lot of mons that can win vs it can't do pretty much anything else. I think the metagame will be a lot funnier and diverse without alakazam in the tier. - Chiles Habaneros

Overcentralizing, can tech almost all of its counters and generally a pain to predict and play against. - doc1203

It's too good and highly versatile and can even break through some of it's supposed counters (special walls like Raikou) via moves like encore, toxic, protect. - Blui

Lethal encore and toxic speed, barrier/screen sets, by far the best mon in the tier from my experience and passes the boundaries of being meta-healthy - Clouds

Tagging Kris for implementation.

 

[SuperMemeBroz]

POST ALAKAZAM META

Now that Alakazam is banned from GSC 1v1 (Thank God) I wanted to share my thoughts on how the meta will change



THE NEXT ALAKAZAM

it’s mime time. Now I don’t think mr mime will be as good as Alakazam. It’ll definitely be interesting to see the usage of it post zam. Because of its 90 speed, tons of more Pokémon can deal with it.

yes this will be viable. It’s just worse Alakazam but like with mime, slower speed tier, you have paper defense, and you hit less hard. But can still beat quite a bit of Pokémon.

someone might get creative with this. You have growth and curse. Nothing else much to say.

MAJOR Ws ALAKAZAM BAN

Raikou has reclaimed its throne as being the best GSC 1v1 Pokémon and being the only s tier so far. Crunch was option against Alakazam (which lost to light screen) but you can now run a free extra slot.

Top 5 GSC 1v1 Pokémon. Alakazam was faster with toxic so not much you can do there. But, you are fast and will be destroying most stuff in the tier.

the only dark type I will mention. Like with Raikou, crunch was used for Sam it you don’t really have to use it at this point (unless you want to hard beat mime) it can now run a free 4th move slot.

Steel types now benefit in zam ban cause Kadabra nor the others can’t do much to them

here’s a big one. Alakazam clapped Gengar and now that it’s gone, Shadow ball is a viable option (even though it’s physical) you clap through mime, you’re faster than kad, and maybe espeon also drops to shadow ball.


I’m pretty sure you beat almost every psychic type now. Tbolt drops Starmie. Ice beam drops eggy, dedge can drop espeon and kad and you can probably find a gimmicky set that beats mr. mime. Goat pory

you now nail most psychics (besides starm)

MAJOR Ls OF ALAKAZAM BAN

it lost its main target and everyone runs ho flying to beat it nowadays

scope lens slash crit through zam but since zam is gone, ursa will drop in usage.

rip


I only listed off major Pokémon that were affected positively or negatively. Ok now gn.

 

[DEG]

The ORAS Council has decided to take a look at sleep inducing moves in the metagame. We noticed that the discussion in the SS thread wasn't taking into accounts sleep inducing moves in different gens so we decided to take a closer look at them in ORAS. Sleep Inducing moves ban isn't a new topic but has been around 1v1 for years and it's a controversial issue. Some people see sleep inducing moves as uncompetitive and deserving of a ban since they can turn any matchup into a diceroll since it takes the game out of a player hands, example: Mega Gengar being a fast Hypnosis+Hex user allowing it to nearly always fire a Hypnosis and leave the game into fate hands. Other players think that only inaccurate moves should be banned since they're the one that dice rolls the game like Sing, Hypnosis, Grass Whistle, while higher accuracy moves are just part of the game and probability management. Last but not least, some players think that no action should be taken on sleep since it is part of the game, and can be managed easily with Taunt, and Substitute for example and it's part of the game. The ORAS council held a vote internally and the majority decided to look at sleep inducing moves as individual moves, but we also think the community, specially the ORAS players, should have an input in the decision.

Secondly, after observing closely the past ORAS tournaments, we have noticed that Charizardite X is looking a bit restricting in teambuilding and on preview. Mega Charizard X has a lot of set ambiguity and can generally tech a lot of its checks, counting Mega Lopunny, Greninja, and Mega Diancie, to name a few, but on the other hand its negative trait is that its sometimes not the correct set in some matchups - for example spdf Charizard X checks Greninja but fail to tech Mega Lopunny, though it is sometimes hard to read on preview. On top of that, there's also the possibility of Charizard holding Charizardite Y which has different checks, cause Charizard Y is specially offensive while Charizard X is physically offensive and both, individually have some different checks which either forces you to run the same counter for both Pokemon or try and play the set guessing game on preview. We have decided to take a look on Charizardite X not Y because this Charizard X is the overwhelming entity. To clarify, NO ACTION WILL BE TAKEN yet, or during PL, this is just a message saying that we're actively looking at the metagame during PL and we'll decide after the tournament.

 

[Jabiru]

With the heightened focus around the place of sleep in 1v1 across all generations, I thought I might as well add my two cents.

Now there's been a bit of a debate as to what constitutes a uncompetitive use of sleep with most people agreeing that something like Mega-Gengar in SM being fairly universally considered an abuser, whereas people take a lot less issue with the likes of Jumpluff in the same generation. To take the argument to the extreme, is a Pokémon like Smeargle or Breloom uncompetitive purely because of the random nature of sleep turns or is the fact that they have multiple opportunities to get the sleep turns they may require by utilising substitute in combination with the 100% accuracy of spore sufficient to make them acceptable. To my mind, these users of sleep are valid strategies with fairly reliable matchups. Of course there exists some RNG, but that will always exist in Mons. So the line therefore must lie somewhere in the middle, and in that aspect reminds me of DPP Machamp where no one aspect of the Pokémon was particularly problematic but their combination made for a wholly uncompetitive Mon.

However in looking for an exact point where RNG becomes too much RNG such that it becomes an issue for a metagame, we risk a scenario where everyone's opinion differs and subsequently a consensus may be very difficult to reach. We also start to stray ever closer to the terror that is complex bans (Oo spooky).

Ultimately I understand the frustration with sleep, but I'm of the position that either all sleep should be banned or all sleep should be kept. I fundamentally disagree with attempting to find a line in the sand (You can maybe argue semantics that Yawn functions slightly differently but I honestly do not care enough). I do see value in the less RNG-reliant sleep users and so I personally am leaning on the side of sleep, though I will say it wouldn't be that heinous of an opportunity cost for it to not exist.

Ultimately (x2) (Sorry for the ramble) I think sleep is a contentious enough issue to be worthy of a suspect and so as a DPP main who plays a bit of SM, I'd like to call for DPP to suspect sleep and whether it deserves a place in the tier. DPP 1v1 has historically had incredibly slow tiering action and so this time I'd really like to see our tier getting out in front of an issue and hopefully other generations and councils can follow that lead.

Disclaimer

For legal reasons, this is a shitpost

 

[Elo Bandit]

The ORAS Council has decided to take a look at sleep inducing moves in the metagame. We noticed that the discussion in the SS thread wasn't taking into accounts sleep inducing moves in different gens so we decided to take a closer look at them in ORAS. Sleep Inducing moves ban isn't a new topic but has been around 1v1 for years and it's a controversial issue. Some people see sleep inducing moves as uncompetitive and deserving of a ban since they can turn any matchup into a diceroll since it takes the game out of a player hands, example: Mega Gengar being a fast Hypnosis+Hex user allowing it to nearly always fire a Hypnosis and leave the game into fate hands. Other players think that only inaccurate moves should be banned since they're the one that dice rolls the game like Sing, Hypnosis, Grass Whistle, while higher accuracy moves are just part of the game and probability management. Last but not least, some players think that no action should be taken on sleep since it is part of the game, and can be managed easily with Taunt, and Substitute for example and it's part of the game. The ORAS council held a vote internally and the majority decided to look at sleep inducing moves as individual moves, but we also think the community, specially the ORAS players, should have an input in the decision.

Sleep in ORAS

zzz

I made this video during SM but everything applies to ORAS (except for Dark Void which was nerfed from 80% to 50% accuracy).

Timestamped for hax dependency comparisons between sleep users. Move accuracy is correlated to win rate, but it's not quite the same.

High Accuracy Sleep

Spore (Smeargle, Breloom, Amoonguss)
Dark Void (Smeargle)
Lovely Kiss (Jynx, Smeargle)
Sleep Powder (Venusaur, Jumpluff, Vivillon, Tangrowth, Exeggutor, Roserade, Vileplume, Victreebel, Bellossom, Lilligant, Carnivine, Venomoth)

High accuracy sleep wins ~75% of the time. These moves and associated strategies are competitive because their effectiveness relies on choosing them in the right matchups, not overcoming unreasonable odds.

Low Accuracy Sleep

Hypnosis (Gengar, Gardevoir, Gallade, Mew, Ninetales, Milotic, Malamar, Delphox, Crobat, Yanmega, Poliwrath, Bronzong, Sigilyph, Spiritomb)
Sing (Altaria, Mawile, Chansey, Blissey, Meloetta, Glalie, Eeveeloutions, Lapras, Raichu, Clefable, Froslass, Cinccino, Kangaskhan)
Grass Whistle (Whimsicott, Cottonee, Sceptile, Shaymin, Abomasnow, Cacturne, Leavanny, Meganium)

Low accuracy sleep wins ~50% of the time. These moves and associated strategies are uncompetitive because they replace the player's decision making process with a rough coinflip. If I pick M-Gengar or Cottonee against a team of three attackers that aren't specific counters (4:50), I bypass the entire RPS system of 1v1 and put the game to even(ish) chance that neither player can influence. I intend to vote Ban on these three moves because they pass the acceptable threshold of reliability while disregarding player choices (19:44).

Relic Song

Relic Song (Meloetta)
This move's primary function is to enable Meloetta's Pirouette form. 10 percent (20% with Serene Grace) sleep is not significant enough to consider Relic Song uncompetitive, especially when compared with other low-RNG moves. Following the logic of other sleep moves, if 75% is a win condition, 20% should not be considered a win condition. Meloetta is not an RNG abuser in ORAS 1v1 without Sing.

Yawn

Yawn (Slowbro, Togekiss, Snorlax, Swampert, Blastoise, Empoleon, Eeveeloutions, Camerupt, Hippowdon, Kingdra, Darmanitan, Slurpuff, Emboar, Uxie, Audino, Gastrodon, Kangaskhan, Musharna, Quagsire, Vigoroth, Walrein, Relicanth, Ursaring)

Yawn is a special case. It comes with more opportunity cost than other Sleep inducing moves, since you need to use both Yawn and Protect or Endure. 1/3 of the time, the opponent wakes up on the first turn after Protect, and the sleep strategy falls flat, generating no extra turns. This seems pretty much in line with high accuracy sleep - 25% vs 33% failure. 1/3 of the time, the Yawn user gets one extra turn to attack. This is where most Yawn strategies expect to succeed (2HKOing something that would 2HKO you first). 1/3 of the time, the Yawn user gets two extra turns to attack. This lets some Yawn users potentially cheese otherwise losing matchups (3HKOing something that would 2HKO you). This is the scenario where Yawn comes closest to the point of being considered uncompetitive. Ultimately, I think the opportunity cost of giving up two move slots and giving your opponent an extra chance at counterplay is fair for the amount of RNG offered. Yawn strategies can generally expect to win two thirds of the time, which many players will call good enough, though Yawn is clearly closer to the line of "uncompetitive" than high-accuracy sleep.

TL; DR: Ban Hypnosis, Sing, and Grass Whistle because they enable coinflip scenarios that negate the impact of player decisions.

 

[DEG]

The ORAS Council has decided to take a look at sleep inducing moves in the metagame. We noticed that the discussion in the SS thread wasn't taking into accounts sleep inducing moves in different gens so we decided to take a closer look at them in ORAS. Sleep Inducing moves ban isn't a new topic but has been around 1v1 for years and it's a controversial issue. Some people see sleep inducing moves as uncompetitive and deserving of a ban since they can turn any matchup into a diceroll since it takes the game out of a player hands, example: Mega Gengar being a fast Hypnosis+Hex user allowing it to nearly always fire a Hypnosis and leave the game into fate hands. Other players think that only inaccurate moves should be banned since they're the one that dice rolls the game like Sing, Hypnosis, Grass Whistle, while higher accuracy moves are just part of the game and probability management. Last but not least, some players think that no action should be taken on sleep since it is part of the game, and can be managed easily with Taunt, and Substitute for example and it's part of the game. The ORAS council held a vote internally and the majority decided to look at sleep inducing moves as individual moves, but we also think the community, specially the ORAS players, should have an input in the decision.

View attachment 406691

Secondly, after observing closely the past ORAS tournaments, we have noticed that Charizardite X is looking a bit restricting in teambuilding and on preview. Mega Charizard X has a lot of set ambiguity and can generally tech a lot of its checks, counting Mega Lopunny, Greninja, and Mega Diancie, to name a few, but on the other hand its negative trait is that its sometimes not the correct set in some matchups - for example spdf Charizard X checks Greninja but fail to tech Mega Lopunny, though it is sometimes hard to read on preview. On top of that, there's also the possibility of Charizard holding Charizardite Y which has different checks, cause Charizard Y is specially offensive while Charizard X is physically offensive and both, individually have some different checks which either forces you to run the same counter for both Pokemon or try and play the set guessing game on preview. We have decided to take a look on Charizardite X not Y because this Charizard X is the overwhelming entity. To clarify, NO ACTION WILL BE TAKEN yet, or during PL, this is just a message saying that we're actively looking at the metagame during PL and we'll decide after the tournament.

Sleep inducing moves suspect has started.

Requirements:
- ORAS CUP Finalists
- Played atleast 3 games in WC V and got 1 win
- Played atleast 3 games in PL VI and got 1 win

If you got reqs and I forgot to add you to the convo lmk!

 

[crucify]

The BW council has decided to suspect Jirachi, theres a bunch of posts in this thread going into why its problematic and so far this PL its reached a breaking point of different sets being used (mainly balloon sets being used more alongside scarf) making it arguably broken (uncompetitive argument remains weak imo but i do think its arguably broken and bottom line the tiers better off without it) leading to this suspect occuring. Supermajority of 60% will be required for it to be banned, deadline is 7 days from now or if the supermajority is confirmed

The Requirements will be similar to the recent ORAS sleep suspect:
- Council
- BW CUP Semi Finalists
- Played at least 3 games in BW 1v1 in WC V and got 1 win (minus a couple)

List

eblurb
crucify
DEG
Freddy Kyogre
PA
Potatochan
Sansho
Trashuny
doc1203
torterraxx
XSTATIC COLD
Sky of Doom
Jamez
Mubs
Itchy

 

[crucify]

The BW council has decided to suspect Jirachi, theres a bunch of posts in this thread going into why its problematic and so far this PL its reached a breaking point of different sets being used (mainly balloon sets being used more alongside scarf) making it arguably broken (uncompetitive argument remains weak imo but i do think its arguably broken and bottom line the tiers better off without it) leading to this suspect occuring. Supermajority of 60% will be required for it to be banned, deadline is 7 days from now or if the supermajority is confirmed

The Requirements will be similar to the recent ORAS sleep suspect:
- Council
- BW CUP Semi Finalists
- Played at least 3 games in BW 1v1 in WC V and got 1 win (minus a couple)

List

eblurb
crucify
DEG
Freddy Kyogre
PA
Potatochan
Sansho
Trashuny
doc1203
torterraxx
XSTATIC COLD
Sky of Doom
Jamez
Mubs
Itchy

Over, with 10 ban votes coming in out of 15 possible, the 60% supermajority to ban jirachi has been reached and Jirachi has been banned from BW 1v1! Ban will be in affect for next week of pl, legal for remaining series of this week

Votes

Voter List (15): eblurb, crucify, DEG, Freddy Kyogre, PA, Potatochan, Sansho, Trashuny, doc1203, torterraxx, XSTATIC COLD, Sky of Doom, Jamez, Mubs, Itchy

Ban (10): crucify, DEG, Freddy Kyogre, Sansho, doc1203, XSTATIC COLD, Jamez, Mubs, Itchy, Trashuny
Do not Ban (1): Potatochan
Just wrote "Jirachi" in their vote (1): PA
Yet to vote (3): Sky of Doom, eblurb, torterraxx

tagging Kris to implement, thanks

 

[neomon]

Can we __please__ make relevant tiering decisions in between official tours not in the middle of them

E: Adam3560 the argument for a jirachi ban is almost certainly the exact same as it wouldve been 4 weeke ago so yes this couldve been managed beforehand,and banning something in cg is a completely different case than old gens

 

[Adam3560]

Can we __please__ make relevant tiering decisions in between official tours not in the middle of them

I usually don't reply to one off posts but this one is pretty simple to argue against. Banning things mid tour makes more sense than banning them at any time since it's during tours that things will rise or drop in usage, and metagames will undergo the most development. Clefable was banned during adv swiss, necrozma got banned during pl, and now jirachi was found to be broken and is being banned during pl as well. Additionally, waiting till the end of the tour goes against the point of a ban, which is to quickly remove a broken element of a metagame while it is most relevant to, kind of like removing a cancer tumor as early as you can. That's all I wanted to say I hope you have a great day.

 

[DEG]

Sleep inducing moves suspect has started.

Requirements:
- ORAS CUP Finalists
- Played atleast 3 games in WC V and got 1 win
- Played atleast 3 games in PL VI and got 1 win

If you got reqs and I forgot to add you to the convo lmk!

60% was needed for a ban, so Hypnosis, Sing, Grass Whistle, and Yawn are banned from ORAS 1v1.
Tagging Kris, thank you!

Hide

 

[Trashuny]

After strongly advocating a gen 5 Jirachi ban, I find myself... kind of hating gen 5 after its ban. I'll just get straight to the point. I think the numerous bans throughout the tier has left it in a state where it is decentralized in an unhealthy and unfun way. I don't mind decentralization itself, but it has left the tier feeling very all over the place. Everything good was banned, and now we are left in a tier with no amazing pokemon and no good ways to tackle the variety of pokemon that people commonly run.

Teambuilding gen 5 is kind of a mess right now. It, in my opinion, often comes down to throwing random stuff together and whatever matchup fishes the teambuilder feels like using. In this series that just happened, there was 3 Tornadus in five games. Why??? Tornadus-I (not therian) doesn't even have a set in the sets compendium. Despite this, both players used it when it's really not super good. It's very hard to tell what the "metagame" even is, at this point. Is Tornadus part of the metagame? Should you strongly keep Tornadus in mind when teambuilding? It was completely absent until week 4, where it then showed up 3 times in one series. Obviously, this is kind of a nitpicked and rhetorical point, but I seriously think this is an example of the tier at its worst, when people expected the meta to become better after a Jirachi ban.

It's hard to look at a gen 5 team you've made and feel like it's really complete. All the pokes in the tier operate in very different ways, and the lack of good pokemon left in the tier make it hard to make solid cores. The diversity in the tier is way too overbearing, in my opinion, and very difficult to tackle. Teambuilding to me just feels very unsatisfying, and it's because of how volatile the tier is after ban after ban. I feel like the metagame doesn't give the player good enough tools to make a solid team with.

I don't like to hate on tiers for no reason. Playing gen 5 is probably fun right now, but teambuilding it is pretty bad, and a lot of gen 5 games come down to matchup fishes.

I'm not completely sure what solutions exist. Maybe we unban things? I think if we do nothing, the tier will be gen 4 levels of bad in a year. But unlike gen 4, I think unbans are way more viable of an option.

Banlist: OU Banlist + Focus Sash, Accuracy Moves Clause, Cottonee, Dragonite, Kyurem-Black, Perish Song, Whimsicott, Victini, Togekiss, Mew, Jirachi

You could unban Dragonite, Kyurem-B, Jirachi, Victini, Mew, and maybe Togekiss? I don't know. I'm just trying to offer some sort of solution. Gen 5 kind of feels like a very watered down version of gen 7 to me, with far less players that consistently play it and like it. I don't really know if that made sense, but I just wanted to post about a problem that's kind of been in the back of my mind lately. I really don't like making these negative posts, but I feel this is a genuine problem the tier has.

 

[Lumii]

Teambuilding gen 5 is kind of a mess right now. It, in my opinion, often comes down to throwing random stuff together and whatever matchup fishes the teambuilder feels like using. In this series that just happened, there was 3 Tornadus in five games. Why??? Tornadus-I (not therian) doesn't even have a set in the sets compendium. Despite this, both players used it when it's really not super good. It's very hard to tell what the "metagame" even is, at this point. Is Tornadus part of the metagame? Should you strongly keep Tornadus in mind when teambuilding? It was completely absent until week 4, where it then showed up 3 times in one series. Obviously, this is kind of a nitpicked and rhetorical point, but I seriously think this is an example of the tier at its worst, when people expected the meta to become better after a Jirachi ban.

With all due respect, when your team builds two Tornadus and your opponent happens to bring one as well, there's not much of a case to make about the "overuse of Tornadus" and stuff. One series that went to five games is hardly something worth using to define the state of the entire metagame. I'm saying someone who used Tornadus in Bo5 practice games even before the Jirachi ban, but it feels very odd to make a fuss about all of this due to Tornadus being seen in PL. It's not that Tornadus-Incarnate isn't good, it fills a fun niche on a team, with stuff like Prankster Bulk Up and Flying Gem Acrobatics. The three Tornadus we've seen also included a Tornadus-Therian, which fits the niche of a really fast mon (375 base speed go brrr!) that can be used as a specs attacker with a lot of coverage. I disagree with the fact that they're not really good or even that they're wholly unexpected.

Besides, the tier is naturally going to be really volatile after a ban, but that's what forces players to be creative as they adapt to the current state of the metagame. The tier was centralised around Jirachi, but now that Jirachi is gone, it'll just take a couple of weeks to find something else to centralise around. Making the case that we should unban things after literally one single PL match is definitely not the way to go. Before making any drastic cases towards doing something, I think we would need to wait much longer than a single PL match.

I don't like to hate on tiers for no reason. Playing gen 5 is probably fun right now, but teambuilding it is pretty bad, and a lot of gen 5 games come down to matchup fishes.

I'm not truly sure about the matchup fishes part (mostly because I've only kept my practice games to a select four users this week while prepping for my PL match), but I haven't seen it yet. I'll keep an eye out. In all honesty, I had a lot more fun building this week than I did during the first few weeks, when Jirachi was allowed. I think that there's so many ways to innovate in the tier, which is amazing from a building standpoint. I've thoroughly enjoyed the tier in this past week, having built some things that I've thought in the past to be totally unviable because they're theoretically viable.

Anyways, the metagame will most likely settle around something else soon, making an entire detailed post and possibly proposing unbans after one PL match (due to Tornadus of all things?) seems, at least to me, like jumping the gun...

 

[Itchy]

Wrote this up last night, ty lumi for reminding me to post lol

Yes, teambuilding kinda sucks in BW rn, but idt the solution is to reintroduce mons that been proven to be terrible for the tier. Each successive broken was restricting, yes, but they also held back plenty of others from being fully realized. Snorlax is the new biggest issue imo, however, I am not currently arguing for its ban, at least not without more tournament play. Lax has few full checks, but you can just bet on losing to a certain set and pray the opponent doesn't bring it, or you can tech all sets with some Fighting-types if you're really paranoid. Not quite sure what to do here, but I am against unbanning The Brokens:tm: on principle (the ones I was around for were all pretty reasonable), even if it might make things better than the current state. I am frustrated, but I am also wary of re-adding mons that previously were too much for the playerbase. If we continue to have issues with individual mons, we ban those and keep moving forward imo

 

[LBDC]

Hello, fellow trainers and 1v1 fans! Recently, there is growing a... dissatisfaction with the current SM 1v1 state. Many great players think the metagame is "bad", "cursed slot", and "meme tier". Concerns emerged about Mew and Dragonite, and some players also wanted to take action on sleep and Hypo + Mega Gengar. As such, SM council decided to take action!

in addition, I hijacked the council and took full control of it, in order to end rampant chaos and bring peace and prosperity to the noble land of 1v1.

However, in the past few months, we also saw many great quality post arguing for different, experimental, tiering. 1 EAST thankfully showed to us the light, by analyzing here that bans, after all, reduce the pool of the Pokémon available by removing one Pokémon (you didn't saw this one coming, uh?). In DPP, user STABLE suggested here to unban as most Pokémon as possible to fix a tier. After all, Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon 1v1 are to this date the Pokémon game with most Pokémon coded in the game, and diversity is something we should incentivize more.

As such, today, the SM council have a very serious and important decision to announce. Starting today, we'll be re-test in the metagame Ubers Pokémon each month until the metagame is deemed stable enough by the council. In order to speed up the process, room poll and strawpolls will be used to gauge public opinion and formalize tiering actions. This is a huge decision, but we believe the time to act is NOW! As such...

SM 1v1 is suspect testing Giratina-O!​

We believe Giratina-O may an acceptable and a welcomed addition to the tier.

First of all, despite its good offensives stats (120 in both Atk and SpA), Giratina-O is restricted to Griseous Orb. It means Giratina-O cannot hold a Z-Move like Dragonium Z or Ghostium Z. Most of its offensive STAB moves also have serious issues: Draco Meteor can't be spammed, Shadow Ball is weak without Z-Move, Shadow Force is a 2-turn move that can be stop with very prominent Substitute users such as Mega Metagross, Diancie, and Keldeo. We also thinks Giratina-O may have a 4MSS; in addition of its STAB, it want moves such as Shadow Sneak, Will-O-Wisp, Spite, Calm Mind, Thunder, Iron Head, Heal Block, and Bulldoze, but can't run them all in the same set. Finally, Giratina-O double type (Ghost / Dragon) leaves it weak to prominent Ghost-, Dark-, Dragon-, and Fairy-types such as Blacephalon, Darkrai, M-Altaria, and Mega Audino.

At the same time, we hope that Giratina-O keep in check dangerous Pokémon like Mew, Slowbro, Mega Charizard Y and Manaphy thanks to its 150 / 100 / 100 defensive stats.

Suspect end date is TBD! And so is roomtours. Also, it should goes without saying but as this is a retest into a tier, it would NOT affect PL games anyway.

Happy testing!
(why it is first SM post in this thread in ages lmao) (plz don't delete)

 

[PA]

Its your resident DPP 1v1 player, and as I promised Euphonos and Jamez , I am gonna do my megapost now consisting of vr updates and will share my thoughts on the current metagame at hand.

Music to Enjoy while reading:

Lets Dive right into this shall we ;)

======================================
VR UPDATE

S Rank
Tyranitar

S- Rank
Cresselia
Zapdos

A+ Rank
Infernape
Jirachi
Raikou

A Rank
Clefable
Dragonite

A-Rank
Aerodactyl
Kingdra
Celebi
Heatran
Metagross
Rhyperior
Hariyama
Swampert
Suicune

B+ Rank
Arcanine
Gyarados
Heracross
Hippowdon
Registeel
Rotom-A
Sceptile
Scizor

B Rank
Azelf
Bronzong
Empoleon
Gallade
Staraptor
Tangrowth
Venusaur

B- Rank
Alakazam
Ambipom
Armaldo
Blissey
Gastrodon
Gengar
Moltres
Umbreon

C+ Rank
Dusknoir
Electivire
Gengar
Flygon
Mamoswine
Roserade

C Rank
Azumarill
Flygon
Regice
Slowbro
Torterra
Ursaring


C- Rank
Abomasnow
Articuno
Camerupt
Cradily
Jolteon
Lanturn
Magmortar
Porygon2
Regirock
Spiritomb
Starmie
Walrein
Yanmega

D Rank
Blaziken
Gliscor
Houndoom
Lucario
Magnezone

RISES:
Tyranitar: S- to S
Cresselia: A+ to S-
Zapdos: A+ to S-
Clefable: B- to A
Hariyama: B+ to A-
Arcanine: B to B+
Gyarados: B to B+
Medicham: UR to C+

DROPS (A lot):
Dragonite: A+ to A
Kingdra: A to A-
Registeel: A to B+
Slaking: A to B+
Sceptile: B+ to B
Tangrowth: B+ to B
Weavile: B+ to B
Venusaur: B to B-
Blissey: B- to C+
Dusknoir: C+ to C
Flygon: C+ to C
Mamoswine: C+ to C
Torterra: C+ to C
Abomasnow: C to C-
Camerupt: C to C-
Regirock: C to C-
Yanmega: C to C-


So with that down, let's start talking about the current meta;

===================================


CLEFABLE

The biggest elephant in the room, Clefable has already shown itself to be one of the most dominant threats in the DPP metagame at the moment compared to previous months. I agree that it is even more deadly than it was before due to its banning of Machamp and Togekiss, pertaining more opportunities to customize its moveset to beat certain answers and being able to utilize different items thanks to the change. Main examples are running a physically defensive variant with Counter to tackle some of physical answers such as Dragonite and Metagross. Ice Beam, Thunderbolt and Grass Knot are both viable options in tandem with Calm Mind to cover Pokemon like Celebi, Rest Suicune, Swampert, and Hippowdon. Granted it cannot run all these options in one set, scouting as to what exact set your opponent is running can often be quite the task. I have seen Chople Berry usage fly-in tours to mitigate its weakness to Pokemon utilizing Fighting-type moves such as Hariyama, Choice Band Scizor, and Choice Band Infernape. But even then, Tyranitar reminds one of the biggest roadblocks for Clefable to get over with Taunt and outplaying with Crunch and Stone Edge. Additionally, there are attackers that Clefable loses to such as Choice Band Slaking, Choice Band Rhyperior, and Choice Specs Infernape. Every competent DPP team needs at least one answer to this massive threat to not get destroyed by it and I can only see this issue getting worse with more people starting to realise Clefable's niche just in the same way as to how problematic Togekiss was during its stay in the tier.



TYRANITAR

Tyranitar has been a staple in the DPP as an offensive threat since its introduction to the metagame. Having garnered more attention as a controversial presence in recent months, Tyranitar's diverse set mix allows for it to make the most of its practical attacking movepool and superb natural bulk. These characteristics make Tyranitar very threatening during the preview. Chople Tyranitar is the best set in the tier. It is able to cover an obscene amount and this alone already makes Tyranitar amazing. What most people seem to be undermining at the moment is just how splashable Tyranitar really is. Tyranitar and Cresselia already cover more than half of the metagame by themselves and only really struggle against the likes of Occa Scizor and Slaking. It is very versatile. Items such as Shuca, Custap, Scarf, and Band are all viable options, as well as more untraditional sets such as Choice Specs and Babiri. Of course, there are still some limiting factors such as Tyranitar most likely being Chople Berry, making it easier to prep for. Additionally, wallbreakers such as Choice Band Slaking and Rhyperior can break through it due to its middling speed tier. Overall, Tyranitar is the best mon in DPP by a good margin and is only really threatened through the prospect of Clefable rising in the next few weeks.



CRESSELIA

I've talked about Cresselia a bit before but honestly, I don't think it is as good as the above two in the current metagame. With Clefable and Tyranitar being used more, Cresselia really struggles to have the impact it had when it was popular. Encore Clefable really hurts Cresselia, being unable to Trick it thanks to Encore and not having the capacity to break through it with Specs has made it not as prevalent as it was before. Chople Tyranitar in the same way completely shuts down Cresselia. Don't get me wrong. Cresselia's set diversity is always a threat to look out for upon preview but as Clefable and Tyranitar rise in viability, I can't see it being in the same ranking that it has currently. The ambiguity between scarf and stall sets is really whats keeping it up here, both sets are decent in their own right but nothing too insane.


======================================

UNDERRATED THREATS



I don't know about you but I love Choice Band Slaking recently. With the lack of firepower in the tier, Slaking really shines and combats that statement. Choice Band Giga Impact hits like a truck and being a Pokemon that can beat the Big Three is such a great attribute to have right now. Additionally, stall sets are really underrated, can wall a ton of special walls and potentially lure physical attackers like Choice Band Heracross and Hariyama.




Saw it used in MG and daily officials a few times and it wasn't so bad. Speed tier, coverage, nasty plot, and ability to run both special and physical sets grant it a solid niche. However, it is frail and not quite strong enough to win a lot of the matchups it would like to win.



The best Taunt user in the metagame right now by far. Charti sets completely invalidate Aerodactyl. Quite one-dimensional but it is good at what it does.


Medicham is quite good with the right support. With Shaymin gone, it can utilize its Choice Band set more effectively than before - OHKOing Chople Tyranitar and Clefable while beating non-Choice Specs Dragonite is always a good tool to have under your belt. Fighting-types, in general, have gotten a lot better as Tyranitar cements itself as the best Pokemon in the tier.

Well this is all I have right now folks,
♫ Too da loo ♫

 

[lancert]

Sleep, sleep...? Yes, it's good to sleep, but from a competitive point of view, sleeping is far from being an optimal strategy. I'd like to talk about that again. This has worked well so far, to allow your chances of winning based on RNG! but I don't think this is the best way to do things and I think we should consider banning sleep completely.



1) Sleep adds a completely uncontrollable element of luck to the game.

For reference, in modern generations (4 and up) sleep turns are determined as follows:

- There is a 33% chance that the Pokemon will wake up after one turn of sleep.
- If it does not wake up after 1 turn, there is a 50% chance that the Pokemon will wake up after 2 turns of sleep.
- The Pokemon will always wake up after 3 turns of sleep.

Older generations have a much higher number of turns, but I'm focusing on SM here. If a Pokemon is asleep (which will almost always be the case against the more capable sleep users like Gengar, Venusaur, and Jumpluff due to their ability to threaten speed control or play it defensively. You have no way to outplay him, other than hoping to wake up early, or anticipate, but that's already a lot to beat sleep.


2) Sleep is sorely lacking in SM counterplay

Here are the most common ways to absorb sleep moves (spore, sleep powder):

- Being a grass type.
- Playing Sableye as the best counterplay currently.
- Playing fast Pokemon.
- Possessing an ability like Overcoat, Insomnia or Vital Spirit.

This is a very disproportionate list for something that is so devastating. Sleep isn't too far from an OHKO hit most of the time -> Hypnosis + Hex. This combination is simply uncontrollable, unless you wake up early and are one of the luckier ones to attack offensively.



3) We have already recognised that sleep is a powerful strategy and that we have no obligation to maintain it.

From what I can tell, with this version of sleep, it has become one of the major issues that needs to be addressed quickly. I think most people would agree that sleep is one of them. If we are going to go to such lengths to eliminate something so obviously flawed and dependent on the RNG, why not eliminate it altogether?

If sleep was banned in ORAS, then why is it still allowed in SM??? I agree that this should not automatically apply to all levels and generations, but we really need to ban sleep in SM. Thank you!

 

[zioziotrip]

I don’t think we throw out the baby out with the bathwater with sleep. I agree that Hypnosis, Yawn, and more inaccurate forms of sleep like Grass Whistle are too much of a headache to prep for in conjunction with the rest of their tiers. SM should reflect ORAS’s sleep ban, not ban Sleep Powder and Spore. Jumpluff, Smeargle, and Vivillion are all way less egregious than HypnoGar or WhistleWhimsi. They all have their own issues like susceptibility to speed boosting moves, Taunt, their lacking speed tier, etc. which keep them balanced. Beyond that, they are the least reliant on Sleep with Smerg and Vivillion having nearly 100% accuracy and Jumpluff able to fish multiple times for 2 turns. I believe the current ORAS sleep ban should be reflected across SM and possibly SS, not every sleep move. Thanks.

 

[Trashuny]

Gonna post some gen 6 stuff that I came up with, took out some ev spreads because I might reuse them without thinking about it, sorry

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flame Charge
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
Definitely was not the first person to use these 4 moves together, but I don't think I've seen it recently and definitely don't think with these exact EVs. Things this set helps a lot vs: snorlax, manaphy, venusaur, gardevoir, stall deos, crustle, sawk, jumpluff, vivillon if you get a first turn wake, chansey, and maybe other stuff. Snorlax and mega garde are definitely the biggest two, as they're pretty common and annoying to deal with.

Also funny calc:
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 526-619 (100.3 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mew @ Metronome
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Energy Ball
Wanted to beat a weird group of pokemon including ground types, venusaur, slowbro, manaphy, and some other stuff, so I came up with this set. I think this beats snorlax, metronome helps a lot vs stall. Had to bluff beating gyarados but most people won't assume offensive mew so I was okay with that.

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance
SD Fire fang helps vs other mega maw and registeel. Also snorlax.

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Substitute
- Thunder Punch / Ice Punch
Wanted sub for victini, togekiss, and archeops. Unfortunately, not every archeops carries fly... Jolly is usually better but you want adamant on this set for rolls on victini after they drop their defense with v-create.

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
EVs: 244 HP / 204 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Dark Pulse
- Signal Beam
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Wanted to be really good vs garchomp, and had signal beam for other hoopa and mega gyarados. This set put in a lot of work in tests, specs hoopa doesn't really ever feel weak.

Serperior @ Chilan Berry
Ability: Contrary
- Substitute
- Leaf Storm
- Protect
- Leech Seed
Was weak to porygon-z. You don't really need lefties on leech.

Genesect @ Occa Berry
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Extreme Speed
- Flamethrower
- Metal Sound
Haven't seen much non choice genesect, but I wanted this for PZ. Metal sound is filler but was okay vs stall manaphy (you can still lose to either good rolls or scald burn). I think you need to hit PZ as hard as possible. Also occa berry helps vs meloetta and other random HP fire stuff.

Jumpluff @ Wide Lens
Ability: Infiltrator
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Encore / Infestation
With the increase in random stall stuff like snorlax and manaphy, figured this set had a lot of potential, even if I unfortunately never used jumpluff. Infestation makes you less weak to taunt, but you probably still lose.

Had fun playing and building the tier even if fire/water/filler is obnoxiously solid in the metagame and can make prepping the tier somewhat repetitive. The tier isn't really as boring as it seems, had some other unused stuff I hope to make work in the future

 

[crucify]

Image

watch the video for reasoning. theres quite a few drastic rises/drops on here when you compare it to the current vr that are jarring but thats just how the meta has become. tbh mons below jumpluff shouldnt be used seriously but we ranked em anyway. couple notes after thinking a bit more sableye should be further up in A (better than kyub at least) and terrak should be B+ probably but eh.

besides the vr just wanted to talk about this guy real quick:

i think snorlax should be banned, too good of matchups vs other top tiers with helmet stall and its other sets and techs including charm on stall, band/belly drum, and even curse which ends up making lax restrict building so much and makes it a nightmare on preview for most teams. has a weird zard matchup most of the time but outside of that u got maw, taunt sableye/mew, and le fighting types to beat it reliably, and some other stuff too but not gonna go through every matchup. zard was the elephant in the room going into this tour for a broken mon in oras but thats far more controversial than this should be imo so action should be taken on mr lax first

regardless of lax or building being stale sometimes i had a ton of fun building oras 9 weeks in pl and s/o Leru for using whatever nonsense i made

also ban hypnosis in sm please just do same as the oras vote