Other 1v1 Tournament Policy Discussion Thread

[prunyy]

hello guys i think 1v1cl should be something like this:
8 teams, each pick 4 tiers (1 group 1, 2 group 2, 1 group 3)
group 1:
bo7 flex 1 (sv, ss, usum, oras, bw)
bo7 flex 2 (sv, ss, usum, oras, bw)

group 2:
bo5 flex 1 (sv, ss, usum, oras, bw)
bo5 flex 2 (sv, ss, usum, oras, bw)
bo5 flex 3 (sv, ss, usum, oras, bw)
bo5 flex 4 (sv, ss, usum, oras, bw)

group 3:
bo5 flex w/ more tiers 1 (sv, ss, usum, oras, bw, dpp, adv, nd, uu, maybe others)
bo5 flex w/ more tiers 2 (sv, ss, usum, oras, bw, dpp, adv, nd, uu, maybe others)

This is good cuz you have bo7 slots, bo5 slots, and possibility dpp, adv, nd, uu representation. Everybody happy

Picking same tier not allowed to force more tiers to be played, but if opposing manager picks same slot as you then it's ok, such as you pick SV7 and opponent also picks SV7. But you cant send smth like SV7, SV5, USUM, DPP.

Self buys should be flat 15k for 100k budget, using formula is weird cuz 1 bad season ≠ always low price.

"why 8 flex? boo!!"
This tour needs to be distinct from 1v1pl and WC, I think this is the best way to keep the collection of team tours interesting and have variety. Tournament will not be dictated solely on the draft or flex picks if managers do their job well.

"goose larper i dont like 8 flex slots managers are bum johners :(("
Submit tiers Sunday night and lineups Monday afternoon (12 hours for lineup) Whatever is good for hosts and managers but the week should be up by mid Monday.

"hey there arent many dpp or adv or nd or uu players D: one team can just spam that slot for free with a good player!!!!"
People who play tiers very well that are less popular would go to a higher price, making the team likely weaker in another slot. If there is a super strong player on every slot on a team then you guys messed your draft up.

Qs:
Should group 2 be split into something like:
bo5 pl flex 1 (sv, ss, usum, oras, bw)
bo5 pl flex 2 (sv, ss, usum, oras, bw)
bo5 og flex 1 (ss, usum, oras, bw, dpp, adv)
bo5 og flex 2 (ss, usum, oras, bw, dpp, adv)

Should second self buy be more costly than first?

How to do tiebreak?

thanks for coming

 

[Anonymous1634]

1v1cl thoughts:

we should definitely rename it, we should still call it 1v1CL IV tho cause higher number = cooler

6x10 > 8x8, makes it stand out more compared to pl and highlights more tiers (we certainly have enough for consideration)

no thoughts on selfbuys, tb should have at least one bo7 (ideally all bo7)

SS/SM/ORAS/BW/DPP/ADV/ND should be locks, idk why no adv is up for discussion and natdex clearly has a large support base. the mainers can decide bo5 or 7 for these

no hate but the gap between gsc and adv in terms of playerbase and competitiveness is quite a bit, I really don't think there's any justification for including gsc over anything else

multigen seems like it would be cool (I would prefer bo7 no rby/gsc but you could do bo9 as a way for people to possibly play a little rby/gsc), however I also don't think it's better than uu or the options below

I think UU deserves a slot, there's definitely enough sv mainers willing to throw themselves here especially if no sv. good opportunity to develop the tier more and also easy to introduce newer players who might only know sv

that brings us to my preference for the final two slots: SV7/SV5 > Flex/Flex
I think a tour with limited sv would be best to still have hype matches with mainers who might not play otherwise, but we certainly don't need more than 2 slots. don't really get the people who think it's overrepresented, cg is always gonna be the most popular tier with people who want to play it as much as possible.

regarding flex, I will acknowledge the argument that it helps promote more collaborative team environments; however, I don't think this will ultimately improve that much nor do I think this was a particularly major issue in the first place. a good/bad team environment comes from the managers and players, and having two flex slots that overlap with other slots will only do so much to increase teambuilding collaboration. I would be fine I guess with flex replacing both sv or sv/uu but that seems kinda meh. oh yeah also no flex-only spots that's pretty terrible

"ok but what if we had more flex slots or almost all flex?" yeah this probably would help promote collaboration, but I also think it would be more hassle than its worth. for starters it's much more difficult for managers and hosts to resolve lineups each week, and it also makes it harder to scout/compare/analyze individual results (these are both problems with flex in general). you also have to determine what tiers can be flexed and if there's a limit per tier, especially if you do something complex like prunyy's proposal, all of which would be difficult to agree upon. tldr: many flex = many complications and idk why we would bother, 2 flex is ok tho.

to summarize my thought on slots: SV7/SV5/SS/SM/ORAS/BW/DPP/ADV/ND/UU > (SV/UU)/SS/SM/ORAS/BW/DPP/ADV/ND/Flex/Flex

 

[LittEleven]

I would like to propose the tour spotlight ND and take the form of Classic League over Championship league coz this is like an unofficial, meta deserves a tour for it and there's a decently big enthusiastic playerbase PLUS YOU CAN DRAFT PEOPLE TO PLAY NATDEX UNLIKE WC. Also gives us a chance to trial promising metas like ND to give more info on whether we need our PL slot to be most recent oldgen bo5 because it's been debatable how good the slot is across the years.

Putting CG SV in a tour meant to spotlight old gens is unsavory to me since pl is 3x SV (7+5+5) and wc is 4x sv (7+7+5+5); along with UMPL UMBD most seasonals all being dedicated to CG. OGPL has been the best tour 3 years straight in terms of average game quality so we shouldn't be changing the formula, especially when we accomodated the lack of SV in this tour in wc e.g having a lot more SV. It's fine if we want to add it to make sure slots are consistently powered but I don't agree with it being the draw to the tour in any way, and it should be more disposable than old gens that don't get a real tour like ADV and DPP.

I also disagree with any combination of major flex slots due to how they interact with one meta only players: if i draft two ORAS players who are good, and flex ORAS every week, it doesn't mean i can get two ORAS slots because i can't be guaranteed flexed into (this is actively disincentivised because i have two good oras players); this leads to talent drafted just being benched and localized rather than distributed which sucks. Flex slots that are global and only for metas in the tour are ok though I don't prefer their existence currently.

8 slots:
ND7/ND5/SS/SM/ORAS/BW/DPP/ADV

10 slots:
ND7/ND5/SS/SM/ORAS/BW/DPP/ADV/(Flex+Flex / UU Slot + UU slot / Rotating OM Slot (???) + UU slot / SV + UU slot) etc pick your poison.

My preference for this tour would be to include UU if it goes to 10 slots in some fashion but I understand if people do not enjoy the idea enough to justify that and am not attached to it. I think every slot in my listed 8 slots should be compulsory otherwise.

 

[RADU]

throwing this out there: theres been a big push towards bo7 recently and 1v1cl is an experimental tour anyway, so why not make every slot bo7 as a bit of an experiment? the biggest deterrent to 1v1 being mainly bo7 is that it would be hell prep-wise; lets put that theory to the test and see if its manageable/better

 

[fake tom numbers]

throwing this out there: theres been a big push towards bo7 recently and 1v1cl is an experimental tour anyway, so why not make every slot bo7 as a bit of an experiment? the biggest deterrent to 1v1 being mainly bo7 is that it would be hell prep-wise; lets put that theory to the test and see if its manageable/better

Flex slots+bo7 on all tiers sounds like a pain; especially for the first few weeks when players are learning new tiers and now have to build more (and the usual benefits of bo7 like cteaming/switching usage or w/e doesnt apply if you don't have a good grasp on your meta)

Also yeah sv slots in le old gen tour is bad, at most 1 since over that you're just stealing good players from other gens=worse gameplay

Also also super unclear direction on what this tour should be; ogpl was super simple (the oldgen tour) but now it just seems like a mess (flex slot simulator? oms/natdex/uu?? gsc/sv???)

Also also also no more than 2 flex slots pls (flex slots are bad both from manager/slotting perspective and player perspective unless u wanna learn multiple tiers but alas)

 

[luser]

Flex slots discourage skill. There are many posts here from people who did not experience flex slots as a manager, and I wanted to speak on how flex slots actually impacted our tournament experience. There are two conceivable reasons why a serious team would use their flex slot: slot an overdrafted player in their preferred tier, or pick into an opponent's weakest tier.

In the first case, managerial mistakes are smoothed over, rewarding poor planning. For example, during the OGPL draft, our team already had Waylaid, and accidentally bought Kry off a failed upbid. Normally, this mistake would mean sending one of these high value players out of their "preferred" tier of SM, but since we had the option of flex slots, we just picked SM most weeks.

In the second case, often times, the series ends up being a mediocre BW player into a non-BW player, or a well-supported clicker into an poorly supported clicker. Very few players in the community an expert at more than 2-3 tiers, and it is unreasonable for each team to buy a unicorn player to cover whatever their opponent flexes for. Our OGPL team did not really have any such players, and as a result, threw Mcthelegit into whatever bs the opponent picked. This ended up working well for us, but I don't think that a tournament should consist solely of 3ks trying out random tiers, since I don't think this promotes the most competitive games. People already complain about SV4 for its tendency to spawn gifs, just imagine SV4 players clicking trick on mail.

Bo7 flex is terrible. Any more than 4x flex is terrible. Either of these force your team to suddenly need to prep ~10 new teams in any random given tier every week, and often in your weakest tier(s)