Metagame 1v1

I cannot dispute that a metagame without species clause enabled would make it easier for players to make which sets their mons are using more ambiguous, akin to Charizard, but I can suggest that this concept is one that already exists in the current metagame due to players who proactively change their sets to have more favorable matchups against opponents.

I can also suggest that because of this, the removal of species clause would make it more convenient for people to achieve this factor of ambiguity, but it's just that, a convenience. Of course, there are people who aren't as proactive when it comes to teambuilding, but I don't believe these people are representative of the 1v1 community as a whole, or even a majority in terms of the vocal community. Ultimately, it's not my choice who we make these kinds of changes for, but I believe that if suspect tests have any kind of comparison to clause tests, it's that the credible, knowledgeable, and overall qualified people within the community should be the ones making these choices.
I hate to have YET ANOTHER one-liner, but this is the sort of argument that really cheeses me off.
1v1 should not and cannot make decisions based on the wishes of the top 5% of all players if it wants to continue to grow. Yes, it would make it easier to get these high ELOs that you crave, but what about the new player that gets the proverbial rug pulled out of his feet with this huge change? What happens to them? In my opinion, the bans and unbans should be made more with the lower ladder in mind. One fine example of this was Deoxys-Defense. It may not have been all that great high up on ladder, but it made low ladder play hell. Believe me, sometimes I just didn’t want to play without a dedicated counter, and neither did anyone else. This takes diversity and flushes it down the tubes. While unbanning Species Clause may make your life easier, it won’t for the new players trying to get into the meta. And that is not OK.
 
make team preview rely on predictions and not just a guessing again, to diversify the metagame.
hi there quick question
what's the distinction between predicting, say, a scarf vs specs pz and guessing a kyub set alongside a zard? or simply trying to mindgame?
what exactly makes the first thing a guessing game, a game of complete chance and the others a skill based game of predictions?
 
hi there quick question
what's the distinction between predicting, say, a scarf vs specs pz and guessing a kyub set alongside a zard? or simply trying to mindgame?
what exactly makes the first thing a guessing game, a game of complete chance and the others a skill based game of predictions?
During the first game, there really is no distinction; the distinction occurs after you've found out what sets your opponent has. Once you know the sets of the Charizard and Kyurem-B, because they have different sprites, you can tell what they are as soon as they click it. When your opponent has two Porygon-Zs, you know that one is Specs and one is Scarf, but not which one. This leads to the person facing off against the dual Pory-Zs to potentially make suboptimal plays. Species clause therefor, on the ladder, has potential to be uncompetitive, but in tournament style play where you only face the same team once, there's no problems with it.
 

Osra

formerly The Official Glyx
I hate to have YET ANOTHER one-liner, but this is the sort of argument that really cheeses me off.
1v1 should not and cannot make decisions based on the wishes of the top 5% of all players if it wants to continue to grow. Yes, it would make it easier to get these high ELOs that you crave, but what about the new player that gets the proverbial rug pulled out of his feet with this huge change? What happens to them? In my opinion, the bans and unbans should be made more with the lower ladder in mind. One fine example of this was Deoxys-Defense. It may not have been all that great high up on ladder, but it made low ladder play hell. Believe me, sometimes I just didn’t want to play without a dedicated counter, and neither did anyone else. This takes diversity and flushes it down the tubes. While unbanning Species Clause may make your life easier, it won’t for the new players trying to get into the meta. And that is not OK.
That's a slippery slope you're walking on there, friend. Going down that path can lead to something like "Dugtrio is OP pls ban because I only use Pikachu and choose not to use anything better", you should be plenty familiar with these kind of people if you've spent as much time in the lower ladder as you lead us to believe. There's always going to be a range of people who can provide thoughtful and coherent contributions to discussion, and then... those who use Pikachu because they like Pikachu.
Heck, if you ask the lower ladder of Anything Goes, they'd probably tell you that they want all legendary pokemon banned.
 
After reading all of the previous posts and doing more thinking, this is the conclusion I have arrived at...

I still see the inclusion of a species clause as an obstacle to figuring out what mons have an unhealthy presence within the metagame. It means that said overpowered mons can hide more effectively behind their own team mates and not be as blatant in their brokenness.

However, I cannot deny some of the counter arguments that support the species clause as well. I have already talked in detail about the aspect of luck present in both non-species clause and pro-species clause teams, but I do agree that facing multiples of the same pokemon could be extremely frustrating for a new player and could hurt this mode's growth as a result.

Another aspect is, as stated above, a decrease in diversity. Yeah it's good to make it clearer which mons are broken, but once those overpowered mons are taken out of the picture we're still left with multiples of the same pokemon, which could still make diversity a challenge and limit the potential of mons who fill very specific niches in 1v1.

While I do see short term benefits to the undoing of the species clause, I cannot deny that there are some long term consequences as well.

With that being said, I am reluctantly dropping my case on the species clause.
 
That's a slippery slope you're walking on there, friend. Going down that path can lead to something like "Dugtrio is OP pls ban because I only use Pikachu and choose not to use anything better", you should be plenty familiar with these kind of people if you've spent as much time in the lower ladder as you lead us to believe. There's always going to be a range of people who can provide thoughtful and coherent contributions to discussion, and then... those who use Pikachu because they like Pikachu.
Heck, if you ask the lower ladder of Anything Goes, they'd probably tell you that they want all legendary pokemon banned.
Obviously I don’t want to ban Tapu Koko just because my favorite Pokémon are Hawlucha and Weavile. You have to think of this within reason, obviously we aren’t directly getting 1v1’s ban list from the requests of 1200 players. But huge paradigm shifts in 1v1, you might want to look at everybody it would affect, not just the well-respected and known 1v1ers.
 
Behold, ladies and gentlemen, for the new wave is here. While you were all busy taking a look at those mostly garbage new mons (seriously stop using Blacephalon, I like it normally but it's awful in 1v1) and somehow managing to make Laser Focus useful, I was making the REAL innovations.

794_Sprite.gif

Buzzwole @ Salac Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 40 SpD / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Bulk Up
- Reversal
- Rock Slide

On top of taking on the stuff it normally does, Endure Salac Buzzwole can also beat...
- Kyurem-Black
- Blacephalon
- Mega Charizard Y
- Mega Pinsir (Prediction required V.S. Sub/SD)
- Porygon-Z
- Hoopa-Unbound
- Archeops (You do need to be careful against Fly variants)
- Volcarona
- Marowak-Alola
- Heatran

The Speed EVs let you outspeed base 110s after Salac Berry, and the Attack EVs w/ nature are to maximize firepower. The remaining EVs are there to beat Marowak.
 
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Behold, ladies and gentlemen, for the new wave is here. While you were all busy taking a look at those mostly garbage new mons (seriously stop using Blacephalon, I like it normally but it's awful in 1v1) and somehow managing to make Laser Focus useful, I was making the REAL innovations.

View attachment 92188
Buzzwole @ Salac Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 40 SpD / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Rock Slide

On top of taking on the stuff it normally does, Endure Salac Buzzwole can also beat...
- Kyurem-Black
- Blacephalon
- Mega Charizard Y
- Mega Pinsir (Prediction required V.S. Sub/SD)
- Porygon-Z
- Hoopa-Unbound
- Archeops (You do need to be careful against Fly variants)
- Volcarona
- Marowak-Alola
- Heatran
The Speed EVs let you outspeed base 110s after Salac Berry, and the Attack EVs w/ nature are to maximize firepower. The remaining EVs are there to beat Marowak.
If you're running Endure, why not Reversal? Also, Scarf variants of most of those mons mess up Buzzwole.
 
After a few battles here on 1v1, I've come up with a list of my favorite Pokemon to use. I'll list them by serious sets then gimmick sets and a few teams of each. You can add them to the sample folder so that new people to 1v1 can dunk Gyarados and Dragonites with Pikachu in my absence.

Serious Sets:

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

A very bulky Gyarados who's been reliable at taking down what I designed it to take down.

Pairs nicely with pokemon that have trouble with:
Kyurem-B, Charizard-Y*, Charizard-X, Pranksters, Fear, Magnezone*, Dragonite, Heatran, Blaziken-M*, Whimsicott*, Excadrill, Latios, Haxorus, Marowak-A, Garchomp, Donphan and more.


Basic strategies:
Take a Solarbeam from Charizard-Y as a regular Gyarados while you set up a Dragon Dance. Finish off with a waterfall as a mega if the Chary will use Blast Burn. If the Chary is bulky, and can tank a Waterfall, set up a second Dragon Dance as a regular Gyarados or simply go for the 30% flinch. Mathematically odds are in your favor. If the Charizard-Y uses Will-o-wisp, continue the Dragon Dances for flavor and kill with a chance to crit, flinch, or rely on their bad defensive stats. People will C-team with ancient power or hidden power electric - you'll still live and have successfully weakened their Charizard set. Pick teammates that appreciate a bad Charizard-Y set to fully take advantage of the desperate person

Mega Immediately and Dragon Dance. Outrage. If they live, it's a bad Charizard-X set.
+1 160+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 310-366 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
The bulkiest of Charx's can't win every match against a +1 gyarados.
Dragonite will use the same strategy and as a bonus, test one match to see if a single outrage will kill.

Mega Immediately and Earthquake. If they go first, they're running at least 188+ speed. Watch to see if they use a z-move because they might be scarved. 252 SpA Magnezone Zap Cannon vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 314-372 (79.8 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Dont worry about the scarf set.

Blaziken's dual stabs are resisted by regular Gyarados. Stay as a regular Gyarados the whole match. Blazikens love to sub or protect turn one so go ahead and treat yourself to a Dragon Dance. You'll get c-teamed with Thunder Punch Mega Blaziken so try to play mind games. If you stay regular turn 1, you will for sure bait out the turn 2 Thunder Punch - mega if you expect this. +1 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 294-346 (74.8 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- After they swords dance t1.

Learn the set after a few losses. Mega vs Regular Gyarados depends on if the Donphan is Z-Rock or Z-Ground. Waterfall vs Dragon dance depends on if they z-move turn-1 or use counter (bad set). Never touch a Donphan unless you're Mega Gyarados.

Mega Immediately and Dragon Dance. Follow up with an Outrage.

-1 252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 166-196 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
You'll live against 2 full Fusion bolts.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 272-322 (69.2 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 328-386 (83.4 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 182-216 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO
Scarier territory here but you'll live outside of a critical hit. (1/16 games)

-1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 135-160 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I think they're trying to show off.

+1 160+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-Black: 334-394 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
without their +attack nature, you'll tank their fusion bolts.

+1 160+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Haban Berry Kyurem-Black: 167-197 (36.7 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Even if Haban Berry, You'll still deal 110.2% minimum with two Outrages. (36.7% from haban hit + 73.5% full hit).

+1 252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 372-438 (94.6 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Even Impossible 252 HP/252+ Attack/ 252+ Defense Kyurem-B @ Weakness Policy can not OHKO Gyarados every time.


Important things to remember: Pranksters can not status you when you're a dark type. Baiting a Tapu-Lele works 0% of the time. If you've been Trick-Or-Treated or hit by Truant Entrainment, going mega will return your stats and ability to the classic dark-water with mold breaker. The faster Gyarados intimdates first.


Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 SpD
Careful Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt/ Coverage Punch

Why this set is fun:
252 SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 116 HP / 140+ SpD Metagross-Mega in Electric Terrain: 271-319 (82.1 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 116 HP / 140+ SpD Metagross-Mega in Electric Terrain: 295-348 (89.3 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Pairs nicely with Pokemon who have trouble with:
Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu, Kyurem-B, Magnezone, Diancie, Venusaur-M, Porygon-Z, Mimikyu*, Lopunny-M, Magearna, Crustle, Golem*, Mawile-M, and more depending on your fourth move coverage.
Check to see the Z-Move Mimikyu and Golem carry before going Metagross.

Important things to remember: Metagross is weaker than Metagross-Mega so if you know your opponent will bait a Metal Burst or Counter, the best option is to do a light hit from Metagross-Mega such as bullet punch or stay as regular Metagross and use a stronger hit like Meteor Mash.
Clear Body is important to block charm spammers and -speed moves like rock tomb or bulldoze.

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 240 HP / 148 Atk / 120 Def
Impish Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt/ Coverage Punch

An older set used if Crunch Gyarados and other larger physical threats challenge your team. I use the Special Defensive one more.


Magnezone @ Electrium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Electroweb
- Zap Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]/ Hidden Power [Fire]/ Mirror Coat/ Hyper Beam/ Protect

Great little guy who takes down a multidude of threats and easy to understand evs. Last move is really up to you.

Pairs nicely with Pokemon who have trouble with:
Charizard-Y, Diancie, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, Magearna, Slowbro, Mimikyu, Nonbulky-Metagross, Jirachi, Heatran*, Porygon-Z, Gardevoir, Altaria, Celesteela, and more depending on your last move.

How to use a Magnezone: Electroweb--> Z-Zap Cannon. The Ev's put you just faster than a base 100 speed pokemon such as Charizard, Victini, etc. Z-Zap Cannon for maximum power. Statistically Zap Cannon is second only two Thunder wave when it comes to landing paralysis and the opponent being immobilized on the same turn. Thunder Wave: 22.50%. Zap Cannon: 12.50%. Thunder: 5.25%, Thunderbolt, 2.50%. (Tri Attack: 1.6675% or 3.9175% if you include Freezing for a turn.)
Be careful against Rock Tomb bulky Heatrans. Try not to get too trigger happy with the z-move either.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
oh heckaroon (Diancie-Mega) @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpA / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power
- Moonblast

chrispy's boi (Heracross-Mega) @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 152 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Close Combat
- Bullet Seed
- Pin Missile
- Counter

what sample (Greninja) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Cannon
- Grass Knot
- Hyper Beam

PPstall that venus (Venusaur-Mega) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Charm
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis

whatchagotthere (Banette-Mega) @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Disable
- Protect
- Phantom Force
- Will-O-Wisp

OG Slow (Aggron-Mega) @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 SpA / 0 Spe
- Protect
- Seismic Toss
- Metal Burst
- Rock Slide

Ponyboy (Altaria-Mega) @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpA / 44 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Rodman (Conkeldurr) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Mach Punch
- Thunder Punch

Heatnar (Heatran) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Overheat
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

fresh sets
Tapu Meme (Tapu Fini) @ Tapunium Z
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature's Madness
- Nature Power
- Brine
- Protect

If you land a 130BP brine on an opponent you win in spirit no matter who wins the battle.


anime is real (Pikachu) @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Fake Out
- Reversal
- Volt Tackle
Fake out -> Volt Tackle to hell
Fake out -> Endure -> Big ol wallop of a Reversal.
Fake out -> Endure to take a contact move and 30% to paralyze opponent -> Reversal Dunk
Fake out -> Tapu Koko really thinks you have lighting rod -> spam Volt Tackle


Fresh Gimmicks (Skarmory) @ Quick Claw
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Toxic
- Fly / Sky Drop
- Roost
- Protect

Protect-> Toxic -> Protect -> Pray that 20% actually works.
The goal is to Quick Claw fly, force your opponent to miss, then turn 2 the opponent misses and you fly down after, giving your two turns of immunity and toxic damage. When lined up with protect that is Four straight turns of damage. Without leftovers, toxic will kill in 5 Turns. A perfect match requires at least this: Toxic lands, Protect, QClaw Fly up, land the Fly, Protect. Sky drop is even funnier than fly and you'll get ELO in my heart.
Odds of this working are 90% to land the toxic, 20% to fly up, 80% not to land early: 14.4%. However if you so much as deal ~10% damage from fly, they'll faint a turn early. It's a quality laugh.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jirachi @ Steelium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Doom Desire
- Fire Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Moonblast

Jumpluff @ Apicot Berry
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Substitute
- Protect
- Leech Seed

Mawile Killer (Clefable) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 228 Def / 180 SpA / 100 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Flamethrower
- Moonblast
- Protect

Cresselia @ Psychium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Toxic
- Moonlight
- Protect

Nature Koko (Tapu Koko) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 32 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature Power
- Hyper Beam
- Charge
- Substitute

Suicune @ Waterium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 96 SpA / 148 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Whirlpool
- Mirror Coat

Pretty darn good (Drilbur) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SpD / 192 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Rock Slide
- Drill Run

Hell yeah (Doduo) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Endure
- Flail
- Rest

Man (Mantyke) @ Eviolite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic
- Scald
- Confuse Ray
- Dive
 
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Osra

formerly The Official Glyx

Welcome to the introduction of our first 1v1 room project: 1v1 Championship. This project will start every month and like its name indicates it's going to be a leaderboard points based championship. Points will be given out depending on how many peoples are in the tour and how many games you win in the tour, those are calculated by *Scrappie. There's going to be a series of single elimination tournaments, since the bot cannot count double eliminations or round robin. We will include a pool of metagames that will be played.

Metagames: SM 1v1, ORAS 1v1, UU 1v1, Monotype 1v1, AG 1v1, AAA 1v1, Sketchmons 1v1. More will be added as they will be out of developmental mode.

Rules:
-Single Elimination.
-We will start with hosting 2 tours per day separated by 12 hours and increase to 4 per day separated by 6 hours if needed. The time will be 4 AM and 4 PM EDT, so like 8 and 8 PM UTC.
-Winner gets included in the hall of fame for now, maybe there will be more prizes.


Samples teams are HIGHLY appreciated from now on, also rules about the 1v1 OMs will be out soon, stay tuned!

Starting June the 1st.
June: charizard8888
July: DEG
August: Blazikin
Requesting that we put this along with the current month's tournament schedule either on the front page of the thread or in a roomfaq/rfaq so that we can avoid the daily confusion of our late night tournaments. In addition, we should have the commands for creating the tournaments in the staffintro or something just so that way when we're in the middle of the night pulling some random global auth to make the official because nobody else is online, they'll at least know what they're doing without having to bend over backwards trying to figure out how to add the same type clause to 1v1 or something like that-
Also,
Who in their right mind thought 4 AM EST would ever work well-
 

Freddy Kyogre

formerly Tai_Lopez9001
I know that this might not seem like the right place to put this but I might aswell as it only affects the 1v1 community, and I personally feel that it's pretty important that others see it.

my entire life has been flipped upside down in the past few days
everything I was once good at, no longer
and being suicidal constantly on top of all the other shit I have to deal with from school and my parents is "ok" and that it's all going to be ok but I sincerely doubt that
I come to PS to escape all that and when i get constant hax and pestering
it makes me very upset
I'm trying to cope with it all and PS is one of my only outlets
and now I can barely even play it anymore without tilting off the face of the earth from hax and other stupid stuff
and now that I can no longer win tours or do anywhere remotely good on ladder I don't see much of a reason for playing the game
I know no one really cares about that or what is happening to me
but if someone takes the time to read through it thank you for listening, it means a lot.
I'm sorry and apologize sincerely for any pain I have caused in the past few days with my words but life is tough currently and it doesn't look like its getting any better
I'm trying my best to win the monthly tour so maybe I can get room voice like I've always wanted
and I know just about everyone here is just going to say that RV means basically nothing and it shouldn't matter
but I have different values than everyone else and it's just what I want
so when I lose all these tours I get a bit heated and angry because everything in my life just looks horrible and no good
so again im sorry to anyone I have hurt in my fits of anger

I have wanted to just not deal with it all for so long now and stop doing everything, and RV tour has given me a small amount of hope that maybe it'll show i can rise to the challenge and become something
but now that's all going downhill
but I can try
its the best I can do at this point since I can't do much of anything else with my mom constantly abusing me mentally and emotionally
saying I'm not good enough to be much of anything
and constantly berating me
it takes a toll on the heart when it's been going on for this long and I don't really want to deal with it much anymore
but I might aswell own up to my mistakes incase I decide to act upon my feelings
which is exactly why I decided to apologize here for everything said
and say that

I'm sorry.

If I ever disappear without saying why, I'm pretty sure the reason will be obvious.

I hope to become better with myself, and if I actually do win the RV monthly tour, I am sure that I will become much better, and a much nicer user. Something good would have happened in my life and I would be forever grateful.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. It means a lot more than you think it might, even if it doesn't apply to you.
Have a good day everyone.
 
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It may have fallen off a fair bit since last gen, but Mega Sableye still has what it takes to be a very useful member in 1v1.

This is a core that I recently made that I have had some pretty nice success with.

Family Jewels Core

Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Snarl
- Taunt
- Recover

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 232 HP / 180 Def / 80 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charm
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Def / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Taunt/Crunch

Sableye is a powerful answer to many anti-meta pokemon such as Heatran, Magnezone, sturdy users, Mega Slowbro, Meloetta, etc. Venusaur pairs wonderfully with Sableye and covers a huge amount of physical attackers which can beat it. Mega gyarados is simply there to fill in as many little gaps that remain as possible (the set can be easily changed to suit your needs obviously). I prefer Venusaur defensive and Sableye specially defensive, but they can always reverse roles if you want.

For lack of a better term, this core has shown itself to be great at disrupting other disruptors and seems to have an above average performance against more niche 1v1 cores that are used against more common cores.

Favourable Matchups:
Choice Scarf
Mega Slowbro
Aggron
Aegislash
Jumpluff
Zygarde-Complete
Basically all sturdy users
Snorlax
Naganadel

However, this team does have a few poor matchups.

Countered by:
Physically defensive Tapu Lele
Mega Gardevoir

Unfavourable matchups:
Charizard Y
Mega Pinsir
Mega Heracross

With these strengths/weaknesses, this core prefers to face more niche threats and beat them at their own game. I usually find this core to be better as a counterteam than an outright laddering team but I still find this core to be very solid. Now have yourself a good day.
 
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Another team built from 1v1 Team-Building Workshop:

There was a germ of an idea in the 1v1 room to get an actual team built around either Mega Tyranitar or Naganadel. So, we held a team-building workshop, and this is what panned out of the team-building process:


First, a poll was made to choose the Pokemon around which the team was to be built. In the poll that happened, Mega Tyranitar was chosen by the majority, so we started off with it. A set was made for Mega Tyranitar, taking into account the stats and the moveset available, and this set was accepted by consensus:


Pokemon 1
Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 84 Def / 100 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Fire Punch
- Low Kick
- Earthquake


The EVs here help in tanking a Choice Specs Bug Buzz from Download boosted Timid Genesect and a couple of Outrage from Kyurem-B.

  • Rock Tomb helps in KOing Mega Charizards, Kyurem-B, Dragonite, and also for speed control against Pokemon like Heatran, Magnezone.
  • Fire Punch helps in KOing some Steel-type Pokemon like Aegislash, Genesect and Celesteela.
  • Low Kick can KO Pokemon like Mega Gyarados, Stakataka, and Mega Tyranitar.
  • Earthquake can KO some Pokemon like Tapu Koko, Magnezone, and Heatran.
Note: While sending it against Greninja, start with Fire Punch; if Protean Greninja uses Hydro Cannon, Mega Tyranitar can follow Fire Punch up with Thunder Punch to net the KO, but if Protean Greninja uses Grass Knot, Fire Punch KOs usually and even if it doesn't, the following Sandstorm damage KOs Greninja.

After arriving at the Mega Tyranitar, a list of common threats were drawn up and the list consisted of:

  • Tapu Lele
  • Mega Venusaur
  • Tapu Fini
  • Donphan
  • Golem
  • Crustle
  • Magearna
  • Curse Mimikyu
  • Mega Gyarados
  • Mega Slowbro, amongst others........

This led us to believe that Mew would pair up well with Mega Tyranitar and so, keeping in mind the threats it had to overcome, the Mew set was agreed to be the following one:

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 200 HP / 128 Def / 120 SpA / 60 SpD
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Overheat


The EVs here let Mew tank a Z-Fleur Cannon from Magearna, and a Rock Tomb+Z-StoneEdge/Z-EarthQuake from Golem with a chance in your favour. This is needed because Sturdy Pokemon can have Protect to not get wrecked by Fake Out.

  • Fake Out is essentially to take of Sturdy Pokemon like Donphan, Golem, Crustle, Magnezone, etc. It could also be used for chip damage for one turn.
  • Nasty Plot helps in setting up against match-ups which aren't KO'd by Genesis Supernova or Overheat, like Magearna or Primarina.
  • Psychic is turned into a 185 Base Power Genesis Supernova by Mewnium Z, which after a Nasty Plot setup, can KO mons like Mega Venusaur, Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele. In addition to this, Genesis Supernova also summons Psychic Terrain, which shields it from Priority moves like Ice Shard from Donphan, Sucker Punch from Golem.
  • Overheat in this set helps in KOing Magearna after a Nasty Plot setup, Magnezone after a Fake Out, and some other Steel-type Pokemon as well.

After these two Pokemon were decided, the weakness list was drawn up again, and found to be as follows:

  • Mega Gyarados
  • Curse Mimikyu
  • Mega Metagross
  • Mega Slowbro
Taking all these into consideration, there was a debate as to whether Mega Scizor, Mega Charizard Y, or bulky Tapu Koko should be used. Since Mega Charizard Y and Mega Scizor can be countered by Mega Slowbro, so bulky Tapu Koko was decided as the third teammate. So, after some calculations, the Tapu Koko was decided to be:
Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 12 SpD / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Charge
- Reflect
- Wild Charge / Thunder
- Taunt


The EVs help Koko in tanking Mega Metagross Meteor Mash and a +1 max Attack Flare Blitz from Mega Charizard X after Reflect is used.

  • Charge increases Special Defense of the user, helping it in tanking Choice Specs Psychic Tapu Lele and some other Pokemon too. It also increases the power of the Electric-type move used in the next turn.
  • Reflect helps in tanking Mega Metagross Meteor Mash and Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz. It also helps in tanking Let's Snuggle Forever from Mimikyu.
  • Either Wild Charge or Thunder can be used in this set as the main Electric-type STAB move, though Wild Charge is the preferable one. Electrium Z powers it into a 175 Base Power(Z-Wild Charge) or 185 Base Power(Z-Thunder) Electric Z Move which can KO the required target. Here,Wild Charge is preferable because it can help in KOing Snorlax, which is a very recent, annoying threat in the 1v1 metagame.
  • Taunt helps in shutting stall Pokemon like Jumpluff and Whimsicott down. It can also be used to prevent setting up of Pokemon like Mega Charizard X, Crustle against Koko.

So, after much discussion, some varied opinions, and much changing of usual sets to fit the required niche, the final team looks like this:

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 200 HP / 128 Def / 120 SpA / 60 SpD
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Overheat

Too Many Hands (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 84 Def / 100 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 12 SpD / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Charge
- Reflect
- Wild Charge
- Taunt


That's it for now, until next post, Imma listen to Eminem Revival yayypeace fellas, and have fun using this team on the ladder...
 
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Freddy Kyogre

formerly Tai_Lopez9001
Hey guys, back here once again with a hard c-team set. This time, I decided to pick magearna. I was thinking about what it could beat with occa berry, and stumbled upon this, which beats charizard-mega-x.


Magearna @ Occa Berry
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave

In reality, thunder wave and substitute are filler moves, as they aren't really needed to beat char-x.

252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Occa Berry Magearna: 226-267 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's extremely unpredictable, and can pull some clutch wins as a c-team.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-676967523
Example of how the set works.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-676974314
How thunderwave and sub might be used, but they can be substituted for something else (pun intended).

That's all for now,
Freddy Kyogre
 
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There has been many workshops in the part few weeks, i'm just going to post all of them.
Whimsicott workshop No.1
Whimsicott @ Occa Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Moonblast

Mimikyu @ Mimikium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Curse
- Substitute
- Protect

Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mind Blown
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
- Hyper Beam


Medicham-Mega Workshop No.2
Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 108 Def / 148 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch
- High Jump Kick

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 80 HP / 108 Def / 196 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Earth Power
- Overheat
- Flash Cannon

Porygon-Z @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 70 Def / 252 SpA / 186 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic

Altaria-Mega Workshop No.3
Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 64 HP / 64 Def / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cotton Guard
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Roost

Victini @ Psychium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- V-create
- Taunt
- Flame Charge

Meloetta @ Choice Specs
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Def / 200 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Uproar
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock

Volcarona Workshop No.4
Volcarona @ Buginium Z
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 100 HP / 200 Def / 68 SpA / 120 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flame Charge
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Overheat

Primarina @ Waterium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpA / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hydro Cannon
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball
- Aqua Jet

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 68 SpA / 188 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Cotton Guard
- Roost
- Substitute

Primarina Workshop No.5
Primarina @ Waterium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Hydro Cannon
- Aqua Jet
- Encore
- Moonblast

Blaziken-Mega @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe
Naive Nature
- Protect
- High Jump Kick
- Blast Burn
- Rock Slide

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Charm
- Uproar


Tyranitar-Mega Workshop No.6
Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 84 Def / 100 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Fire Punch
- Low Kick
- Earthquake

Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 200 HP / 128 Def / 120 SpA / 60 SpD
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Overheat

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 12 SpD / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Charge
- Reflect
- Wild Charge
- Taunt


Abomasnow-Mega Workshop No.7
bird poop (Abomasnow-Mega) @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 100 Def / 64 SpA / 92 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Blizzard
- Energy Ball
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

aqua bob the bui (Primarina) @ Primarium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 168 HP / 248 Def / 68 SpA / 24 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sparkling Aria
- Encore
- Aqua Jet
- Light Screen

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 160 HP / 100 Def / 76 SpD / 172 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Hammer Arm


Kommo-o Workshop No.8
Kommunist (Kommo-o) @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 180 HP / 52 SpA / 164 SpD / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clanging Scales
- Focus Blast
- Flamethrower
- Taunt

the meta is gross (Metagross-Mega) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 204 SpD / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Head / Meteor Mash
- Thunder Punch
- Bulldoze
- Bullet Punch

funny cube (Crustle) (M) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Substitute
- Rock Wrecker
- Rock Blast

Landorus-Therian Workshop No.9
pqs irl (Landorus-Therian) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 156 Def / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Rock Tomb

deg ril (Pyukumuku) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Counter
- Protect
- Recover
- Toxic

someone irl (Gyarados-Mega) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head

Hoopa Workshop No.10
Hoopa @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 HP / 24 SpA / 232 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Psychic

Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Cannon
- Fake Out
- Icy Wind
- Dragon Pulse

Ferrothorn @ Steelium Z
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 76 Def
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA / 0 Spe
- Iron Defense
- Gyro Ball
- Rest
- Power Whip


Porygon-Z Workshop No.11
mace's (Porygon-Z) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 216 HP / 100 Def / 116 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Uproar
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Blizzard


Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Mind Blown
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic


Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Fake Out
- Hydro Cannon
- Icy Wind

enjoy ^_^! Also special thanks to NotFrancy for making gchats and Wrath of Alakazam for helping out with most of the teambuiling!

NOTE: I'll add on to this post with other workshop teams that I have encountered/help building.
 
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Look, there clearly has been no shortage of workshops and workshop teams over the past few weeks. So here's yet another one. This team was made by me, Glyx, and pqs with other passerby participating, built around Special Kommo-o.


Kommunist (Kommo-o) @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 180 HP / 216 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
- Clanging Scales
- Stomping Tantrum
- Flamethrower
- Taunt


the meta is gross (Metagross-Mega) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 204 SpD / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Thunder Punch
- Bulldoze
- Bullet Punch


funny cube (Crustle) (M) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Substitute
- Rock Wrecker
- Rock Blast
 
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Gross Sweep

Aiming for the Horn
is an official Team Rater

1v1 Species Clause

A short while ago a heated debate occurred in this thread between several of the Tier Leaders and a few of the more opinionated forum regulars (was extremely entertaining to read). At the end of this discussion Tier Leader Uselesscrab mentioned he’s taking a break from posting on the issue, yet he’d like to hear people’s opinions on everything – so that’s what I’m here to do. Also around this time DEG, another esteemed Tier Leader, mentioned three main points on why he’s in favor of keeping Species Clause from a TL perspective, so I’ll be touching on those points to be thorough. Then at the very end I have an issue with the whole situation of Species clause getting banned the way it did, and how that factors into this discussion.

I’d like to take the time to address DEG’s 3 points on why Species Clause was introduced into the 1v1 Metagame, and offer up my opinion on each of them.


Point #1

Our objective as a 1v1 leadership team and community is to make the metagame both enjoyable and competitive. We aren't leading a sort of only fun metagame nor something like Anything Goes. 1v1 should be treated as a competitive metagame, that should follow the same definitions as competitive. This would solidify us as a metagame trying to become better, and move forward and not be taken as a fun metagame that has no place in a competitive scene.

I need more of a definition on what makes a metagame competitive. I honestly can’t see where allowing someone to use multiples of the same Pokemon makes it less competitive. It makes you adapt to that one mon being spammed, find a way to beat one mon soundly, and leads to creative thinking in order to beat it on a regular basis if it checks a larger portion of common threats – That doesn't sound like an uncompetitive meta to me. Honestly someone trying to sit there and argue about having to deal with two Charizards at team preview being uncompetitive makes me laugh. Yes I understand that maybe looking at team preview with three different mons will help give you clues to what their last is, but I learned a lesson early on in my mons career that I feel applies to this situation: people are bad, and think differently than you. This may seem rude or strange, but I assure you they are words to live by. You can sit there at team preview predicting all you want, but a decent percent of the time you’re either going to incorrectly predict their team as they took a different approach then you would have or they are going to have holes in their team you would never dream of having leading to you misjudging the team. Obviously the first issue pertains more to high ladder/tours while the second issue is still seen in tours and most of the ladder. Not saying incompetence is a reason this isn’t unhealthy, but I’m also saying that the argument of “it’s easier to predict sets if my opponent has 3 different mons” just isn’t ideal for why we’re enforcing a clause.​

Also on this point I’d ask you to define why staying away from becoming a tier similar to AG was decided upon by the Tier Leaders. Is there a specific issue with this tier that causes the Tier Leaders to want to stay away from it, or really any solid reason – since I have trouble thinking of one? Or more how does not having a species clause cause 1v1 to spiral towards AG (which is apparently a bad thing). The tier bans moves (Perish Song) and Pokémon (Deoxys-D), yet somehow, we get linked to furthering ourselves from AG since it seems apparent we are too closely connected. Maybe I'm wrong on this and the tier just wants to stay away from AG as much as possible since it's a meta without rules, but that leads me to ask why one similarity is such a bad thing?​

Finally on this issue I’d like to address bettering ourselves as a Meta. I completely agree that we should be doing our best to better our reputation (as every tier should), however I don’t think this is a concrete way to do so. When it comes to being an Other Metagame the ultimate goal is to follow Monotype into flagship status, but aside from that impossibility for most OMs a large goal is to gain entrance into the Other Meta Grand Slam. One of the biggest OM tours, which has long been a distancing marker between 1v1 and other marquee Metagames. While I do believe getting the nod should be our goal I don’t see how this helps. Two of the OMs involved, 1/3 of the total (including AG), don’t enforce a species clause. Meaning that the OM community doesn’t see this as a general issue that reduces a tier’s validity. I know this third paragraph wasn’t a major reason for the addition of Species Clause, I’d just like to address it. (I know coin flip was the bigger concern, but still a sentence or two of clarification would be nice since I'm still wrapping my head around why we add this at all).​


Point #2

As explained above and before, having the same two Pokemon would amplify the guessing games. A lot of sets can be guessed via Team Preview by adding different same Pokemon to that Team Preview that would take out the prediction part in team preview which is an essential aspect of plays in 1v1. And that becomes worse when you have 3 of the same Pokemon which would just turn it to something as stupid as a coinflip. If you come with an argument about how the team would be bad with that, do not even bother saying it, since if the team becomes bad why are we even bothering discussing this, why don't you just drop it**.


Firstly I don’t think Species Clause is a huge boost since there are only a small number of mons that can even use multiple sets effectively, but I was told that won’t be considered valid so I’ll address other aspects of this point. Firstly there is still a prediction portion to a team with let’s say 3 Porygon Z (This was the best user of no Species Clause, so why not stick with the best throughout this post). The user facing three Porygon Z must first be able to identify what possible sets could one Mon use to achieve success in the metagame (you may laugh at this, but it’s not easy – With Tapu Koko running around one of the tier’s most versatile Pokemon in M-Gyarados would fail to achieve high amounts of success if ran as a triplet). So if someone manages to reason Scarf, Specs, and the now illegal Custap set (honestly making Species Clause less impactful since the best abuser got nerfed) they then move onto thinking about match up. They get to make a guess of which set they’re facing. They may guess right, they may guess wrong. Yes that can be seen as a coin flip, but it can also be seen as a guess you’d have to make the first time you play any Porygon-Z on the ladder. While you may say if there is one Porygon-Z I can better predict the set, I say Bolshevik since people are bad. Once again I refer to the fact your opponent might not be competent enough to distinguish what PZ set works best, or they simply build the team in a way you wouldn’t have initially suspected causing you to wrongfully predict and lose the game. Basically what I’m trying to say is that in your first game there is a “stupid coin flip”, as DEG so eloquently put it, which really can’t be avoided (and if you say you can I just don’t believe you). It could also be seen as simplifying that match up a little since there are no lures on a team, so if you have a hard counter to the Species Clause abuser no need to predict anything.​

My next argument branches off this Point, but doesn’t directly follow.

People need to stop emphasizing the ladder so much. The tier should not be tailoring its bans/unbans around the mind games that occur in the same teams 10th match up in an hour. Firstly if you’re seriously laddering adjust to the ladder…I don’t know what else to say. If the team you’re trying to RMT can’t break a common multiple occurrence Mon on a regular basis it may not be worth RMTing. Basically if you can’t beat what someone is spamming 3 whatevers of just run something that checks all three sets, I don’t see how that’s not simple. The second portion of this is that an area that should be looked at largely is tours. 1v1 has a flourishing tour scene that must be accounted for. In a tour be it a daily, an open, or a team tour you don’t get to play 15 games vs your opponent to get a handle on their team then have stuff start counting, it’s all or nothing right off the bat. This means that 1v1 should more be looking at the broken aspects of the tier with a fresh matchup between two players who have never faced before in mind, not some toxic 10th matchup between two players that refuse to adapt to the ladder.​


Point #3

Diversity has always been a problem ever since Generation 5, but in Generation 7 we are seeing more Pokemon, more sets and more cores in general. By removing Species Clause we allow people to run good Pokemon more than once which will hit diversity. This will also give the community more Pokemon to talk about being broken, "omg running 2 of this Pokemon is unpredictable, can we please get this Pokemon banned". Diversity is something we aim to get, it's something we aim to work to reach to make the metagame more enjoyable and competitive.


Firstly the decision to ban Species Clause happened in the shift between Gen 6 and 7, so this talk of seeing more cores in Gen 7 is just a lie as no time to observe the meta as it began to settle occurred this gun was drawn right off the bat. Also as an example from Gen 6 (the only thing observed) abusing the lack of species clause didn’t occur. I could make the argument seeing a team of 3 Porygon-Z, or double Charizards was an added wrinkle that increased the diversity of the tier due to it being uncommon, and leading to a few odd pokemon finding a niche as they checked the more frequently used abusers soundly. I’m sure that last point can be countered, so looking forward to that debate. Also I don’t see the fact of disallowing the using of multiples of one mon as a good thing as one of the suspect philosophy points in the thread disagrees.​


4) We are not looking to make low ranked Pokemon viable in the metagame by banning high ranked Pokemon. It's not our fault if they weren't gifted with a good stats, and movesets to be viable in 1v1.


If a Pokemon can’t keep up why are we trying to help them? Point 3 claims that adding Species Clause helps more Pokemon and sets get a chance to shine, but I can argue that we shouldn’t even care since if they need Species Clause to be removed to truly prosper/become a top choice its tough luck – they don’t get that kind of aid.

Akward Transition to next portion of the post...

Now that we’ve addressed those points there are a few other issues I’d like to discuss, which starts to really reveal how this was a bad rule change that had no place in occurring. I’d like to talk about two more points from the 1v1 suspect philosophy that just continue to make this a head scratcher.​

Being an unpredictable Pokemon shouldn't be a strong trait to base your arguments on but still is a way of view and can be looked on. This is 1v1, it's sure that a lot of Pokemon will have different sets to check their checks and derailing from the norm is always something we should encourage as it helps in giving more life to the metagame. So, let's set up a clear definition of what an unpredictable Pokemon is: It's a Pokemon that can make use of different sets with little to no opportunity cost and still be able to beat half of the metagame with whatever set it runs. Per example an unpredictable Pokemon would be Mega Gyarados as it has a big movepool to pick from, and can adjust itself to beat some Pokemon, but that doesn't make it broken since it comes with some opportunity cost.

Right off the bat this rule tells us unpredictability isn’t a strong trait when discussing an issue with something being broken. This starts to make the “stupid coin flip” issue fade since not being able to predict the exact set shouldn’t be a major factor in a ban of sorts. Next we look at opportunity cost. This one is pretty simple, there absolutely is one. Hard counters that a mon can’t beat (with non crazy niche sets) equals an easy win. Since I’ve been mentioning ORAS a lot with PZ we’ll look at the infamous triple Porygon-Z team, and a few sets I made in about 5 minutes. The standard triple PZ team ran a Scarf set, a Specs set, and an Endure Custap set.​

Sets


Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest​

Ability: Guts​

EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 80 SpD​

Adamant Nature​

- Drain Punch​

- Mach Punch


Terrakion @ Choice Scarf​

Ability: Justified​

- Sacred Sword​

(they don’t need other moves to consistently beat PZ, who was once again the most common abuser)​

Terrakion can KO even Max HP Porygon-Z, and can’t be OHKO’d by an Endure set (that’s why no CC, not opening up to a Hyper Beam at -1 Spdef). Conk Eats Modest Specs Hyper Beam (barring crit) and either KO’s with Drain Punch or Drain Punch into Mach Punch vs Endure sets. Once again this is just some quick sets I made to show the opportunity cost of spamming 1 mon with multiple sets – some matchups will just be an auto loss.


The next philosophy I'd like to address...

9) If good arguments are made against a Pokemon the Tier Leader has the right to suspect it, we aren't looking for quick banning Pokemon since the community's opinion is valuable and they make the metagame. If a Pokemon didn't get banned due to a suspect don't re-talk about it even if you still think it's broken, we work on majority.


This is what really starts to upset me when it comes to Species Clause. You say that you really value the opinion of all people, and try to avoid quick bans since WE make the Meta run. Yet, you decide to sneak in this change between Gen 6 and 7 – when it wasn’t even a topic of discussion Gen 6. I feel like at the very least this should have been discussed, before the trigger was pulled. Even in the short time this has been discussed recently a majority of posters in the thread seem to be in favor of at the very least testing out a meta without Species Clause. I guess the question becomes why not tolerate the discussion more?​

Conclusion:

I feel like the addition of Species Clause was done prematurely, and should be considered for reversal. Give the community a chance to shape the meta WE play. I’m sure there will be opposition to this, and I look forward to it. Hopefully out of this post comes some civil discussion (Avoid shit posting from either side pls), and we end up furthering and bettering the meta and its discussion. My final plea in this original post is that the TLs remain open to the idea of a suspect test based upon what’s said in the thread. Here’s to rehashing this.​
 

DEG

A n x i e t y
is a Smogon Media Contributor
Suspect Test 4.0: Jirachi.


The 1v1 Leadership team has voted upon Jirachi to be suspected. The test will run for 2 weeks until Tuesday 9th of January at 23:59 GMT and the requirements are 2600 COIL on the 1v1 ladder. You are not required to make a fresh alt because there will be a new ladder with Jirachi being ALLOWED. Once you've achieved your requirements create a Smogon conversation with me with a screenshot of your /rank and your vote, that way we can keep the thread clean and the vote private. Polite discussion is highly encouraged, please do not talk about the Pokemon unless you have tested to not plague the thread with fake-statements. Jirachi will need a 60% majority to get banned.

Justifications: "Everyone know what Jirachi does ever since Generation 6. With us taking an approach to more competitivity we have received many complaints about Jirachi and decided to follow them. Jirachi is a Pokemon that is predictable but still deadly. It's only job is to flinch the other Pokemon by using either Iron Head or Heart Stamp. It can easily cheese some wins against Mega Charizard Y, Donphan, Crustle and others, while it can win a matchup it is supposed to lose such as against Mega Gyarados. It can also hit Ground-types Pokemon such as Garchomp with Ice Punch and other Steel-type Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Scizor with Fire Punch. Jirachi is never used without the objective being flinching the opposing Pokemon which puts a big question mark on the competitive aspect of Jirachi. Even though sometimes the flinching math isn't in favor of Jirachi, with enough luck the user can achieve that percentage and get the win which makes Jirachi purely luck reliant with little to no plays involved.

We have decided to suspect Jirachi and not Togekiss or Serene Grace because, Jirachi is the prime abuser of flinch moves, it has better defensive typing overall, more speed and the combination of Iron Head and Heart Stamp hits a good portion of the metagame for neutral damage. Meanwhile a Serene Grace suspect or ban would make hurt other Pokemon that do not abuse it such as Meloetta. For these reasons we have decided to suspect test only Jirachi. "

FLINCH FLINCH FLINCH!

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heart Stamp
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Trick

Something else:

No, go flinch.


The B value for this test is 20. To figure out how many battles you'll need to have in order to achieve reqs, first determine your GXE (shown on the ladder and when you type /rank) and plug that into the following formula:

N=20/log2(40*GXE/2600)

(Google calculator is awesome for this kind of thing)

Happy suspect and discussion!
Join the 1v1 room for live discussion!
 
Last edited:
Suspect Test 4.0: Jirachi.


The 1v1 Leadership team has voted upon Jirachi to be suspected. The test will run for 2 weeks until Tuesday 9th of January at 23:59 GMT and the requirements are 2600 COIL on the 1v1 ladder. You are not required to make a fresh alt because there will be a new ladder with Jirachi being BANNED. Once you've achieved your requirements create a Smogon conversation with me with a screenshot of your /rank and your vote, that way we can keep the thread clean and the vote private. Polite discussion is highly encouraged, please do not talk about the Pokemon unless you have tested to not plague the thread with fake-statements. Jirachi will need a 60% majority to get banned.

Justifications: "Everyone know what Jirachi does ever since Generation 6. With us taking an approach to more competitivity we have received many complaints about Jirachi and decided to follow them. Jirachi is a Pokemon that is predictable but still deadly. It's only job is to flinch the other Pokemon by using either Iron Head or Heart Stamp. It can easily cheese some wins against Mega Charizard Y, Donphan, Crustle and others, while it can win a matchup it is supposed to lose such as against Mega Gyarados. It can also hit Ground-types Pokemon such as Garchomp with Ice Punch and other Steel-type Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Scizor with Fire Punch. Jirachi is never used without the objective being flinching the opposing Pokemon which puts a big question mark on the competitive aspect of Jirachi. Even though sometimes the flinching math isn't in favor of Jirachi, with enough luck the user can achieve that percentage and get the win which makes Jirachi purely luck reliant with little to no plays involved.

We have decided to suspect Jirachi and not Togekiss or Serene Grace because, Jirachi is the prime abuser of flinch moves, it has better defensive typing overall, more speed and the combination of Iron Head and Heart Stamp hits a good portion of the metagame for neutral damage. Meanwhile a Serene Grace suspect or ban would make hurt other Pokemon that do not abuse it such as Meloetta. For these reasons we have decided to suspect test only Jirachi. "

FLINCH FLINCH FLINCH!

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heart Stamp
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Trick

Something else:

No, go flinch.


The B value for this test is 20. To figure out how many battles you'll need to have in order to achieve reqs, first determine your GXE (shown on the ladder and when you type /rank) and plug that into the following formula:

N=20/log2(40*GXE/2600)

(Google calculator is awesome for this kind of thing)

Happy suspect and discussion!
Join the 1v1 room for live discussion!
I don't know if my opinion really matters in this regard but this seems like a joke of a suspect on multiple levels, firstly jirachi being suspected in general is stupid but what's even more stupid is togekiss not being suspected, it has arguably better coverage, and it can run multiple sets making it more unpredictable than jirachi. The reasoning behind the whole suspect is confusing as well as if uncompetitive-ness is the reason then why isn't sleep being suspected lol. That's just as bad if not worse than jirachi or flinching in general.
 
I don't know if my opinion really matters in this regard but this seems like a joke of a suspect on multiple levels, firstly jirachi being suspected in general is stupid but what's even more stupid is togekiss not being suspected, it has arguably better coverage, and it can run multiple sets making it more unpredictable than jirachi. The reasoning behind the whole suspect is confusing as well as if uncompetitive-ness is the reason then why isn't sleep being suspected lol. That's just as bad if not worse than jirachi or flinching in general.
"jirachi being suspected in general is stupid"
Unbased claim

"[Togekiss] has arguably better coverage"
Togekiss coverage: Air Slash, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Aura Sphere, Dazzling Gleam, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam (7 total)
Jirachi coverage: Drain Punch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Iron Head, Heart Stamp/Zen Headbutt, Play Rough, Thunder Punch, U-Turn (8 total)

"[Togekiss] can run multiple sets making it more unpredictable than jirachi"
This is honestly better used as an argument in the other direction. Jirachi's only good set, Choice Scarf, relies solely on flinch hax. Meanwhile, Togekiss can do similarly with a Choice Scarf set, but has redeeming positive qualities with its Z-Charm set which does not rely on flinch hax.

"The reasoning behind the whole suspect is confusing as well if uncompetitive-ness is the reason then why isn't sleep being suspected lol. That's just as bad if not worse than jirachi or flinching in general"
Because sleep has a peak level of hax; it can only last three turns. In theory, Jirachi could flinch you eternally without PP coming into play. Additionally, sleep is considered to be strategic under the understanding that it has a 2/3 chance to work if you need 2 turns of sleep (unlike Jirachi which generally needs to get at least two 60% flinches).

My ultimate argument:
Jirachi is outclassed by Mega Metagross and Genesect, except in the aspect of it having mad flinch hax. If the only reason to be using Jirachi is to fish for hax, then I think that it's pretty clearly uncompetitive.
 
"jirachi being suspected in general is stupid"
Unbased claim

"[Togekiss] has arguably better coverage"
Togekiss coverage: Air Slash, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Aura Sphere, Dazzling Gleam, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam (7 total)
Jirachi coverage: Drain Punch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Iron Head, Heart Stamp/Zen Headbutt, Play Rough, Thunder Punch, U-Turn (8 total)

"[Togekiss] can run multiple sets making it more unpredictable than jirachi"
This is honestly better used as an argument in the other direction. Jirachi's only good set, Choice Scarf, relies solely on flinch hax. Meanwhile, Togekiss can do similarly with a Choice Scarf set, but has redeeming positive qualities with its Z-Charm set which does not rely on flinch hax.

"The reasoning behind the whole suspect is confusing as well if uncompetitive-ness is the reason then why isn't sleep being suspected lol. That's just as bad if not worse than jirachi or flinching in general"
Because sleep has a peak level of hax; it can only last three turns. In theory, Jirachi could flinch you eternally without PP coming into play. Additionally, sleep is considered to be strategic under the understanding that it has a 2/3 chance to work if you need 2 turns of sleep (unlike Jirachi which generally needs to get at least two 60% flinches).

My ultimate argument:
Jirachi is outclassed by Mega Metagross and Genesect, except in the aspect of it having mad flinch hax. If the only reason to be using Jirachi is to fish for hax, then I think that it's pretty clearly uncompetitive.
All jirachis coverage moves are very weak lol ice punch won't kill chomp or landot ever or a genesect with Hp Evs, it's weakness of its coverage therefore making that coverage irrelevant against threats which immediately OHKO it back. Also togekiss having more sets to abuse arguably makes it more broken but that is one way of looking at it. Also while sleep may have a cap while flinch doesn't, 7 turns (the sleep cap) is more than enough to win any game of 1v1 where your opponent is not moving at all
 
All jirachis coverage moves are very weak lol ice punch won't kill chomp or landot ever or a genesect with Hp Evs, it's weakness of its coverage therefore making that coverage irrelevant against threats which immediately OHKO it back. Also togekiss having more sets to abuse arguably makes it more broken but that is one way of looking at it. Also while sleep may have a cap while flinch doesn't, 7 turns (the sleep cap) is more than enough to win any game of 1v1 where your opponent is not moving at all
Okay, if we're talking about good coverage, then Togekiss is limited to Air Slash, Flamethrower/Fire Blast and Dazzling Gleam. And uhh, the sleep cap is three turns, not seven...
 
Okay, if we're talking about good coverage, then Togekiss is limited to Air Slash, Flamethrower/Fire Blast and Dazzling Gleam. And uhh, the sleep cap is three turns, not seven...
My point was that those coverage moves can actually pick up the kills on mons they are intended for instead of doing 60~70 and being OHKOed back, and my bad on the sleep cap thing I was misinformed.
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
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I don't know if my opinion really matters in this regard but this seems like a joke of a suspect on multiple levels, firstly jirachi being suspected in general is stupid but what's even more stupid is togekiss not being suspected, it has arguably better coverage, and it can run multiple sets making it more unpredictable than jirachi. The reasoning behind the whole suspect is confusing as well as if uncompetitive-ness is the reason then why isn't sleep being suspected lol. That's just as bad if not worse than jirachi or flinching in general.
The 1v1 council deem sleep to be fine and there has not been any arguments to convince us otherwise. As for Jirachi, it is obviously not being suspected for coverage or unpredictability because you know exactly what you get when you see it: hax. As for Togekiss, the consensus amongst the community as seen in this thread is that Togekiss is fine; the council agrees with that.
 

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