Serious 2020 Democratic Candidates Discussion

Who are your favorite candidates?

  • Kamala Harris

    Votes: 42 15.4%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 71 26.0%
  • Julián Castro

    Votes: 10 3.7%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 40 14.7%
  • Kirsten Gillibrand

    Votes: 6 2.2%
  • John Delaney

    Votes: 4 1.5%
  • Tulsi Gabbard

    Votes: 27 9.9%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 160 58.6%
  • Amy Klobuchar

    Votes: 7 2.6%
  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 16 5.9%
  • Andrew Yang

    Votes: 38 13.9%
  • Cory Booker

    Votes: 4 1.5%
  • Marianne Williamson

    Votes: 6 2.2%

  • Total voters
    273

Chou Toshio

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See that’s the disconnect. You talk about holding the Democrats to a progressive agenda, and it’s easy to do that from across the ocean. You don’t have to deal with the increase in bigotry and racism that exists in everyday America. Saying living in Japan is like living in America with universal healthcare and no mass shootings is ignorant and reductionist.
You’d be saying the same thing if I lived in Hawaii. You’d say the same if I lived in some liberal bastion in a blue state. You could say the same to me if I was a poor, opium addicted white from Appalachia. The point of intersectionality is not to line up privileges and oppressions to decide who has the most legitimate voice—

The point is to build solidarity, to create a common good will to hear each other’s voices, to fight for each other’s causes, and to overcome differences with open discourse. The left never has power except in solidarity.

I’m willing to listen to any pains that you have. And I will hear and see you brothers and sisters— but I also have a perspective to share, having lived in a satellite state, and now a satellite country of the US empire. I have a valuable perspective as an American who’s experienced how vital single Payer and childcare leave has meant to my family, or lived in Communist China. My guess though is that at the end of such dialogue I would tell you that the answer is not to settle for less— MLK would never have settled for less— the answer is to make sure that we raise up your needs and voices.

The philosophies of the left are not meant to divide, but meant to unite for solidarity— allowing the issues of the oppressed to be raised, but also allowing the more privileged to be welcomed to be included in the movement and also be heard.

I really love this line from a black feminist on an episode of the (amazing) “Hear the Bern” podcast speaking about oppression and intersecionality: “The American people are united yes in their mutual suffering, but also in the hope of future change.”
 
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Celticpride

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You’d say the same if I lived in some liberal bastion in a blue state.
This just proves your point. I live in a liberal bastion in a blue state and I still see all of the racist and bigoted shit. Maybe not as strongly as in swing states but it sure as hell exists here too. Maybe if you lived here you’d better understand why it’s important to get Trump out rather than institute a progressive reform.

The point is to build solidarity, to create a common good will to hear each other’s voices, to fight for each other’s causes, and to overcome differences with open discourse. The left never has power except in solidarity.
It’s funny you want to create solidarity but yet throw divisive language at thought of anyone left of Bernie holding a major office.

e:
No the idea is that we rally super hard to get it to be Bernie. Especially since Bernie is going to get a lot of delegates— we play major hard ball. Bernie is the only VP candidate we accept. Period. That is the attitude progressives need to take.

And Our Revolution remains independent, and Bernie doesn’t give his e-mail list. Otherwise, we go mad Bernie-or-bust-protest-vote.

Better— if they put a centrist on the ticket, Bernie should threaten to start a third party— and the squad, Tulsi, and others should back the threat. The Democratic Party can no longer afford to lose the Bernie movement if it wants to remain viable. If he and his followers leave, they got no shot of survival as a party.
Nice solidarity and common voice you’re creating there.
 
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Chou Toshio

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Nice solidarity and common voice you’re creating there.
Thank you.

The left never has power in division. The left doesn’t have money, it has people— a wide diversity of people that must be brought together to enact any change.

The purpose of speaking about privilege, or oppression, is not to end discussion, silence voices, or create divides— there is nothing to be gained there.

The purpose is to engage in building empathy for the oppressions, inclusion for the privileges, and ultimately solidarity in coalition to fight for justice.
 

atomicllamas

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Oh no, I’d vote for Warren even if her VP was Tim Kaine. (Note: I would write in Bernie if it was Joe Biden) I’m just saying Progressives should fight hard for Bernie or the most progressive VP possible until the end of the conversation... and after I would absolutely back progressives making a more viable 3rd party.

I think we just have a different theory of politics here— and the theory is that the only real driving force for change on politicians is the threat of the people deciding to remove them from office. And on that note the more powerful the grass roots movement, the more engaged it is, the more likely anything gets done.

You already read my reasoning. As you said, VP is ceremonial in terms of work load— but it comes with prestige, and with that lighter work load it would come with lots and lots of time for Bernie to be rallying the people in states with resisting representatives.
Gotcha, that makes a lot more sense than what I interpreted your post to mean, lol.
 

Chou Toshio

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This just proves your point. I live in a liberal bastion in a blue state and I still see all of the racist and bigoted shit. Maybe not as strongly as in swing states but it sure as hell exists here too. Maybe if you lived here you’d better understand why it’s important to get Trump out rather than institute a progressive reform.
This is a point we can have honest disagreement on, but the bigger point is that I’m making an argument for both. Both in how to get Trump out of the White House, but also how to make reforms that will keep him or anyone even worse than him out of the White House.

It’s funny you want to create solidarity but yet throw divisive language at thought of anyone left of Bernie holding a major office.
I do use divisive language in being critical of the Democratic Party. In good faith discussion, I think you would at least agree that it’s harder to argue that there is nothing to be critical of in the Democratic Party.

But insofar as I have slandered the candidates, and especially if and where I’ve slandered their voters— that is definitely something to apologize for, and I whole-heartedly apologize— while noting that this is a primary and we need to engage in the real differences of policy and politics between them.

Bernie is not only the best candidate to lead us forward, he is also the best candidate to beat Trump.

If Liz Warren wins, Bernie is not only her best VP pic in order to reform the Democratic Party and push forward a progressive agenda, Bernie is also the candidate who will give her the best chances to win.

Liz has the richest, whitest, most educated base of supporters in the field.

Bernie has the poorest, most racially diverse, least educated base of supporters in the field. He has more black support than Harris or Booker. He has more Latino support than Castro. (and while demographically small in the US, worth noting that this Jewish man from New York has more Muslim support than the whole field)

Together, the two most progressive candidates unite the broadest base of Democratic and Independent support.

Together the two progressives deliver what the Democrats need most of all to beat Trump— the excitement in order to raise the highest possible voter turn-out.

I absolutely think Liz should be Bernie’s VP pick if he gets the nom. People have talked about Tulsi and Nina, but neither have the profile or base to raise the chance of victory like Warren.

Between the two campaigns, but especially in Bernie’s campaign you have the donors, the volunteers, the infrastructure that’s needed to enact progressive change yes—

But also that is needed to maximize the odds of beating Trump.
 
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My dream ticket is Warren / Yang.

I will vote blue no matter who to get the clown out of the White House.

As of this posting date, I rate Trump as a slight underdog (40% chance) to win re-election due to his horrid approval ratings and energized Democratic opposition. The Democratic base will not sit out 2020 like they did in 2016. American politics has devolved to predictable negative polarization (people vote based on which party they hate more). The generic ballot since Trump was elected has shown Democrats leading by at least 6% overall, unchanged even since the 2018 midterms. That suggests a Trump defeat in 2020 and nail biting 50-50 tie in the Senate. Until those polls show some kind of shit towards Republicans, I’d say this election predictable and the Democratic candidate doesn't matter.

Frankly, Trumps only chance in 2020 is to cheat (which will happen). However, It probably won’t be enough to overcome these fundamentals.
 
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fanyfan

i once put 42 mcdonalds chicken nuggets in my anus
This just proves your point. I live in a liberal bastion in a blue state and I still see all of the racist and bigoted shit. Maybe not as strongly as in swing states but it sure as hell exists here too. Maybe if you lived here you’d better understand why it’s important to get Trump out rather than institute a progressive reform.
I’m sorry to jump into the middle of a back-and-forth, but I have a fundamental disagreement with this point. Why do you think Trump won in the first place? Why do you think all this racist and bigoted shit is on the rise? It’s because the current system isn’t working for people. If we send out another candidate that just represents the pre-Trump status quo, we’re going to get another Trump, perhaps a worse one. I agree, getting rid of Trump is important, but what’s even more important if we want to avoid future Trumps is to address the fundamental systemic issues that caused this in the first place. Until the system is fixed, I’d argue that things are only going to get worse for marginalized communities as people take their anger at the system out at them, which is what’s been happening.
(Note: I would write in Bernie if it was Joe Biden)
I usually agree with your posts, but I also think this is the wrong approach. Even with what I’ve stated above, there’s a lot more current benefit to Biden winning then Trump having four more years. Specifically, if Trump gets four more years, I don’t care how well she’s doing, Trump is going to be able to replace RBG. If Trump gets one more Supreme Court pick, then it won’t matter who we elect afterwards. Even though there is a risk to electing Biden (ie worse Trump) is argue there’s more risk not electing him if he happens to be the nominee.

TLDR: Fight like hell for Bernie/Warren in the primary but if Biden wins plug your nose and vote for him
 

Chou Toshio

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I usually agree with your posts, but I also think this is the wrong approach. Even with what I’ve stated above, there’s a lot more current benefit to Biden winning then Trump having four more years. Specifically, if Trump gets four more years, I don’t care how well she’s doing, Trump is going to be able to replace RBG. If Trump gets one more Supreme Court pick, then it won’t matter who we elect afterwards. Even though there is a risk to electing Biden (ie worse Trump) is argue there’s more risk not electing him if he happens to be the nominee.

TLDR: Fight like hell for Bernie/Warren in the primary but if Biden wins plug your nose and vote for him
Republicans do more damage, but it is essentially the center left that is the strongest mechanism in the system for preserving oligarchy. The Democratic Party is less democratic than the GOP. DCCC and Tanden are absolutely ridiculous in bending the rules against primary challenges. The Washington Post, MSNBC, NYT, etc. are bending over backwards to become even worse actors than Fox News at this point.

Not to mention that neoliberalism has been disaster for the world. Let's look at the Yellow Vest movement in France. Lula's PT lost favorability because they lost the political fight to be a real worker's party and became a center left austerity party for Brazil. Blaire in the UK. Clinton probably has a bigger role than Bush in the collapse of the working class. Neoliberalism means austerity and it doesn't work-- it gives us people like Trump. Donald Trump is part of Obama and Clinton's legacy, and the Dem party has to own that. I would rather have the tinfoil Don's absurdity making it possible for the actual left to reform the Dems than let the Dems go on with the delusion that this house on fire is fine, and eventually bring it down so much to Ashes that an actual Fascist takes over.

Electing Warren is still an admission by the party that things have to change. Electing Biden would be a proof that the people don't matter and the oligarchy's order prevails.
 
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fanyfan

i once put 42 mcdonalds chicken nuggets in my anus
Republicans do more damage, but it is essentially the center left that is the strongest mechanism in the system for preserving oligarchy. The Democratic Party is less democratic than the GOP. DCCC and Tanden are absolutely ridiculous in bending the rules against primary challenges. The Washington Post, MSNBC, NYT, etc. are bending over backwards to become even worse actors than Fox News at this point.

Not to mention that neoliberalism has been disaster for the world. Let's look at the Yellow Vest movement in France. Lula's PT lost favorability because they lost the political fight to be a real worker's party and became a center left austerity party for Brazil. Blaire in the UK. Clinton probably has a bigger role than Bush in the collapse of the working class. Neoliberalism means austerity and it doesn't work-- it gives us people like Trump. Donald Trump is part of Obama and Clinton's legacy, and the Dem party has to own that. I would rather have the tinfoil Don's absurdity making it possible for the actual left to reform the Dems than let the Dems go on with the delusion that this house on fire is fine, and eventually bring it down so much to Ashes that an actual Fascist takes over.

Electing Warren is still an admission by the party that things have to change. Electing Biden would be a proof that the people don't matter and the oligarchy's order prevails.
In principle I agree, but two of the most pressing issues, the Supreme Court and Climate Change will both be hurt more by Trump then Biden. If the court gets a conservative supermajority, it won’t matter if Bernie’s in for 20 years, nothing will get done. Biden is taking money from fossil fuel executives, but at least he won’t accelerate climate change like Trump has. Either way we’re probably fucked if Trump or Biden wins, but we can at least pressure Biden from the left. The only pressure Trump gets is from the right. At the very least, if we get good legislation like Medicare for All or the GND, Biden is much less likely to veto it then Trump is. I agree in principle, but since we aren’t in a perfect world, Biden getting elected is a preferable outcome to Trump remaining in office, for the planet and for the future of the left.
 

Chou Toshio

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In principle I agree, but two of the most pressing issues, the Supreme Court and Climate Change will both be hurt more by Trump then Biden. If the court gets a conservative supermajority, it won’t matter if Bernie’s in for 20 years, nothing will get done. Biden is taking money from fossil fuel executives, but at least he won’t accelerate climate change like Trump has. Either way we’re probably fucked if Trump or Biden wins, but we can at least pressure Biden from the left. The only pressure Trump gets is from the right. At the very least, if we get good legislation like Medicare for All or the GND, Biden is much less likely to veto it then Trump is. I agree in principle, but since we aren’t in a perfect world, Biden getting elected is a preferable outcome to Trump remaining in office, for the planet and for the future of the left.
It all really depends— on how strong the left becomes. If you got an absolutely militant left that’s got lots of seats or is willing to split off a third party that has to be prevented... if the Democratic Party believes it needs the left more than its donors than maybe you have a point— but at the moment this is not the case.

While the left is resurging, flexing its muscles, shaping the discourse, we’re still pretty much talking about the weakest, most disorganized, most untrained “left” in the developed world.

It’s a society that doesn’t even know that socialism still has been thought about and evolved in the last 50 years in the world. A society that hasn’t thought critically about capitalism in half a century.

Poll after poll show that the working people agree on policy with the left, but they don’t know the left’s politics, it’s strategy— they don’t know that they’re not alone, and that they should be organized.

I’m still extremely skeptical— especially since Joe has told the left to fuck off at every turn. It’s much easier to imagine the momentum of the left getting quashed than considered if Biden wins. If he is the candidate, the party needs to be taught that this politics can not win.


But actually, regardless of what I say here, it doesn’t really matter— because despite what the polls say, Biden is weak. He’s despised. The turn out will fail, and Trump will walk all over him. Biden will lose regardless of what I say here.
 

Sam

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I’m sorry to jump into the middle of a back-and-forth, but I have a fundamental disagreement with this point. Why do you think Trump won in the first place? Why do you think all this racist and bigoted shit is on the rise? It’s because the current system isn’t working for people. If we send out another candidate that just represents the pre-Trump status quo, we’re going to get another Trump, perhaps a worse one. I agree, getting rid of Trump is important, but what’s even more important if we want to avoid future Trumps is to address the fundamental systemic issues that caused this in the first place. Until the system is fixed, I’d argue that things are only going to get worse for marginalized communities as people take their anger at the system out at them, which is what’s been happening.
I don't really think this is true at all. In 2016 people who thought the economy was the biggest issue voted for Clinton based on exit polling, while Trump overwhelmingly won people who thought immigration or terrorism was the biggest issue. The same exit poll shows that more people thought the government 'does too much' (as opposed to 'doesn't do enough').

I don't disagree that the system doesn't work for some people...but let's not act like most of these "economically anxious" people are saints who simply can't help but hate minorities because they're afraid of losing their jobs. Clinton won people who make under 50k. These people do not get a free pass for being the shitheads they are. There is a societal problem, and bigotry in America and Trump voters isn't just going to go away by fixing 'the system'. The people who you would consider to be the most effected by the system's failures voted for Clinton. Trump was caused by middle class white people.
 
Out of curiosity, who do you think would be a good vp for Warren if she gets the nom. Personally, I’d really want it to be Bernie, but I can see and understand the argument against it. A cool idea could be Yang, try to stick to at least somewhat progressive. I’d be really sad if it was Kamala Pete or Beto or someone like that, but I suppose they are possibilities too.
Yang would be cool but I unfortunately highly doubt that would happen. I think Abrams is up for grabs as a vp and has made that pretty clear so she might get on a ticket especially since she isn't running again last I checked. Harris I doubt since she would probably go elsewhere where she would be able to do more. Also Harris and Warren's coalition is very similar. It's no coincidence that the rise of Warren happened at the same time of the fall of Harris. I think it'd be smarter for Warren to go for someone else to widen the excitement of the base. Buttigieg... idk, he'd make sense hypothetically but if Warren's the plan gal and he demonstrated such a lack of policy expertise I would be puzzled on her picking him. And their bases kinda overlap.
I actually don't want Bernie as VP because Warren and Bernie are pretty much the two most progressive senators so losing 2 senators from the senate wouldn't be a good idea. I think he should stay in the senate especially since VP is kinda more of a name role and not a "doing things" role. But I would hope they'd work closely and she'd listen to him and implement some stuff from him. She better work hard for Medicare For All.
Beto... I would hope not. But I won't discount the possibility.
I dont think Gabbard would want to be VP but she'd be a fantastic choice for Secretary of State since Warren could use some help on foreign policy stuff.
Maybe Julian Castro would be a pick too. I could see that happening actually.
Worst case scenario she goes with a centrist like Delaney or Ryan. But I think she will probably go for a young candidate who isn't white probably. Especially since she has the whitest coalition of the big candidates she's probably going to try and get her VP to court more votes outside of her coalition. So yeah maybe Julian Castro, Stacy Abrams, or maybe Cory Booker.
 
I've seen a couple biden talks recently (CNN townhall, and on Colbert), and I'm a little astonished he's still doing so well in the polls. He seems to actually be losing it. He's only mildly more coherent than Trump at times.

Yang is impressing lately, and Buttigieg is a really good communicator. I am at times a little worried about Buttigieg's decision making; I don't think I'd want to see him in charge, but I think he'd make a good VP. (I think he might be more easily pressured by industry, or too idealistic to implement necessary policies.)
 
At the very least, if we get good legislation like Medicare for All or the GND, Biden is much less likely to veto it then Trump is. I agree in principle, but since we aren’t in a perfect world, Biden getting elected is a preferable outcome to Trump remaining in office, for the planet and for the future of the left.
Actually this a huge misconception from liberal purists. “Centrist” Democrats such as Joe Biden do not buck their own party on key legislation. There is no precedent for that. An example is the most hated Democratic Governor Andrew Cuomo who openly campaigns publicly against most liberal ideas, but has candidly said he reluctantly would sign Medicare for All, as he has every piece of progressive legislation sent to him by the legislature.

The left really hurts itself by pushing this narrative that only an unabashed liberal can pass progressive policy. Governor Hickenlooper has an incredibly progressive governing record yet is ideologically moderate.
 
Is anyone here passionate about Harris? Is she just polling high because California represents 50 million + people?

I just watched Tulsi rip into her about legal reform.

Yang has been growing on me after listening to him speak to Shapiro and on MSNBC and Fox, who sadly give him way more visibility than CNN. An extra $1000 a month literally benefits everyone as opposed to raising minumum wage which only benefits those who work for minimum wage, even if its a devalued $1000. This would do wonders for my grandparents living in separate corners of the country, and my cousin whos a minor league athlete making literally pennies. Neither of which would benefit from an increased minimum wage.
 

Chou Toshio

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Is anyone here passionate about Harris? Is she just polling high because California represents 50 million + people?
Well, she's the smartest, most connected of the establishment's younger candidates, and she's a Senator-- if it weren't for Tulsi, things like her awful record might not have held her back... largely because the media just gave her massive amounts of positive coverage, and of course she also had her own deep war chest, including donor money.

I mean, I've yet to hear anyone give me a sincere argument about what's good about her except that she's smart and she's a woman of color. But there's got to be real passion-- she has the biggest social media presence of any candidate in this race except for Bernie and arguably Elizabeth Warren.
Yang has been growing on me after listening to him speak to Shapiro and on MSNBC and Fox, who sadly give him way more visibility than CNN. An extra $1000 a month literally benefits everyone as opposed to raising minumum wage which only benefits those who work for minimum wage, even if its a devalued $1000. This would do wonders for my grandparents living in separate corners of the country, and my cousin whos a minor league athlete making literally pennies. Neither of which would benefit from an increased minimum wage.
So the argument for Bernie and against Yang would go something like this-- Yang is extremely smart, is pointing at really critical issues, and is building grass roots passion and a good faith campaign. But from the left's perspective, Yang (maybe because he's so deeply from the private sector?) doesn't seem able to escape the paradigm-- is only selling the people defeatism, surrender to the capitalists.

We can't actually break up the most abusive corporations.
We can't actually demand an aggressive progressive tax, we can only tax ourselves with a VAT
The people can't use their government for anything but handing out cash rations
We can't use democracy to push for an aggressive, pro-active agenda.

Really, every single one of Yang's "bold" proposals ends up leaving everything to the market, and none of them truly challenge power or challenge how the system works.
I agree that a minimum wage is not exactly the most efficient policy on paper, but it does something similar to eliminating "right to pay less" laws-- meaning it cuts away at the devaluation of human labor from a fundamental, societal philisophical stand point. Literally, human labor cannot be valued less than X.
A jobs guarantee doesn't make every worker work for the government, but it fundamentally changes the game because if the government is guaranteeing people good jobs with good vacation, pensions, benefits, the private sector is innately forced to compete if it wants workers and if it wants real talent. So an aggressive and sweeping jobs plan is a powerful tool a progressive leader (backed by democracy) can use to force the hand of the private sector on wages and benefits.
It also puts people to work-- and Yang doesn't pay nearly enough attention to the fact that markets only lead us to great prosperity if you got healthy, educated people connected by good infrastructure, and you have deep wells of unprofitable, unpatented basic research for society to draw upon-- all of which is built up by the public sector.

Yang is still a technocrat, weak on challenging power and simply looking for a wonky solution to an issue.
Bernie's policies and politics are about fundamentally changing and educating society on human values, re-structuring the way the system works, and re-structuring who has power in the society. If we want a guaranteed income or dividend system on top of it, that supports ALL people (not some, based on whether they have other government support or not)-- the left is fine with that. But we need to change the contours of how the system works at all; who has power, who is deciding where/what/when things are produced, do we believe in planning? The left loves Bernie because Bernie clearly moves to change the answers to those questions, and educates the people to step up and change the answers to those questions.

Yang: "My first job, is to tell you that however bad you think it is, it's actually much much worse."
Bernie: "In many ways, this world is an extremely depressing place. But if we become depressed, overwhelmed by the obstacles ahead of us-- then we become part of the problem. Another challenge that others who are prepared to be socially and politically active, will have to overcome. Now, more than ever, we cannot give in to despair."
 
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So I've been slowly watching the climate town halls and making notes and uh. Wow. Holy hell is Biden incomprehensible. Like, there's standard politician speak of dodging questions but he literally jumps from one thought to another without completing his thoughts nor answering the questions as if he has a 5 second memory. And he is just... such a backpeddler and so boring. Gosh, lord help us all if he's the person the democrats decide to pit against Trump.


Is anyone here passionate about Harris? Is she just polling high because California represents 50 million + people?

I just watched Tulsi rip into her about legal reform.
I've seen a few people passionate about Harris but most of the support I've seen is "It's time for a black woman in the white house" and not based on any policy nor analysis of her record. But who knows, there are supporters for every candidate so idk. I'd love to hear from the average Kamala supporter if there's any other reasons why they support her, because I sure as hell can't find any lmao.
After Tulsi ripped into Kamala her support dropped considerably and most of her coalition moved to Warren (notice Warren's rise happening at the same time as Harris dropping, this was a big factor). I think it's safe to say Harris is no longer a top tier candidate and is now more like a high B tier.
 

fanyfan

i once put 42 mcdonalds chicken nuggets in my anus
Yang has been growing on me after listening to him speak to Shapiro and on MSNBC and Fox, who sadly give him way more visibility than CNN. An extra $1000 a month literally benefits everyone as opposed to raising minumum wage which only benefits those who work for minimum wage, even if its a devalued $1000. This would do wonders for my grandparents living in separate corners of the country, and my cousin whos a minor league athlete making literally pennies. Neither of which would benefit from an increased minimum wage.
Just as a note about Yang’s UBI, if you’re already on welfare, you have to choose between UBI and the welfare you’re already on. Meaning, if you already get more than 1000 bucks a month from the government in other programs, this doesn’t help you. If you get less than that, it does help you, but not as much as it sounds. Basically, it wouldn’t be an extra 1000 bucks a month if you’re already poor, which is the group you’d want to help the most. At least Yang changed it from how it was originally so you can get UBI and Social Security, so that’s something. But I’d argue the way Yang’s UBI works, if all or most people go off welfare to get UBI it makes it a lot easier for republicans to hurt the social safety net, since they just have to repeal one thing instead of dozens of programs. Not to mention the regressive tax he uses to pay for UBI.

I’m not against UBI in concept, but I’m not a fan of how Yang’s is implemented. Now, don’t get me wrong, Yang actually has a lot of really good policies, democracy dollars for instance, but his flagship proposal isn’t implemented well and he’s a flip-flopper on Medicare for All. That’s way too important for me personally, but I just wanted to arm you with some knowledge to weigh the good and bad of Yang
 

GatoDelFuego

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Not to mention the regressive tax he uses to pay for UBI.
This is the biggest sham yang uses every time to sell himself as the Genius $1000 Meme Candidae. He talks about how great VAT is, how every other country has VAT, why don't we? Well it's because we already have state/local sales tax; you want to implement a VAT similar to europe and sales tax is basically going to double. How can anybody think this is a good idea?
 

Chou Toshio

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From The Hill:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/hilltv/rising/460900-krystal-ball-why-wall-street-more-worried-about-elizabeth-warren-than-bernie?amp

“If Bernie Sanders wins Texas:
  1. Third Way has to sponsor the next D.S.A. convention.
  2. Joe Manchin must cosponsor the green new deal.
  3. AOC becomes speaker of the house.
  4. Justice Democrats take over the DCC.
  5. Everyone who was involved in the "don't campaign in Michigan strategy" is barred from being on your tv forever.
  6. Cornell west takes over Meet the Press from Chuck Todd.
  7. New hosts of morning joe are Killer Mike and Susan Sarandon."

Yes yes yes a thousand times yes.

I would add:
  1. 5-3-8 replaces Nate Silvers with Kyle Kulinski as editor in chief for some actually accurate political analysis.
  2. Neera Tanden is replaced by Nina Turner when JD takes over DCC
  3. Paul Krugman’s NYT column is given to Richard Wolff
  4. Rachel Maddow’s Show given to Jimmy Dore
  5. Vox becomes a subsidiary of Jacobin (or at least replace Ezra Klein with Michael Brooks)
 
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Celticpride

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But Joe Biden beats Trump by 4 in Texas in that poll. And everybody beats Trump. Freaking Harris beats Trump in that Texas poll. That’s hardly a sweeping endorsement of Bernie v the field.
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
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How shocking that trump is forecasted to lose in a poll ran by univision
Yup, no real expectations for Texas to actually flip blue-- but I like The Hill's host was just enjoying musing at the idea that Socialist, Green New Deal Bernie could be considered seriously as a force in Texas. And the post was laughing at the long shot that if it happened-- these are the demands that we should make of the centrists. xD
 

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