Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Who are your favorite candidates?

  • Kamala Harris

    Votes: 43 8.0%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 99 18.4%
  • Julián Castro

    Votes: 16 3.0%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 51 9.5%
  • Kirsten Gillibrand

    Votes: 7 1.3%
  • John Delaney

    Votes: 9 1.7%
  • Tulsi Gabbard

    Votes: 63 11.7%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 338 62.9%
  • Amy Klobuchar

    Votes: 12 2.2%
  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 45 8.4%
  • Andrew Yang

    Votes: 112 20.9%
  • Cory Booker

    Votes: 7 1.3%
  • Marianne Williamson

    Votes: 19 3.5%
  • Mike Bloomberg

    Votes: 12 2.2%

  • Total voters
    537

Chou Toshio

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Mike Gravel 2020

This campaign is FLAMES xDD. 88 years old, former Senator Gravel says he has no intention to seek the Presidency, but wants to make it to the debate stage before dipping out to support Bernie or Tulsi-- but this campaign seems to have 2 pillars: (1) Shitting on all the centrists (2) Putting forth the wish-list policy platform that pushes the progressives to the left.

-Bring back all US soldiers and close all US bases abroad
-Rename the Department of Defense the Department of War and establish a Department of Peace, cutting War's budget in half.
-Pay reparations to damaged communities that hosted US military
-No war criminals may serve in Government
-Rebuild Latin America as we rebuilt Japan and Germany post WWII
-Enforce Antitrust laws and break up our big businesses
-Give workers 50 percent of all Board of Director seats to vote for representatives at all corporations with over 300 employees.
-Tax Wallstreet to make an Alaskan-style fund that pays annual dividends to citizens
-National Health Service (British-style, nationalize healthcare)
-30 Billion a year for reparations to African Americans
-GREEN NEW DEAL
etc. etc. etc.

OMG this is freakin' amazing.
#Gravelanche 2020


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Chou Toshio

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I also asked in email for Corbyn-style “Right of First Refusal” in the platform.

As long as we’re hail-Mary wish-listing for ideas to be carried to the debates... xDDD
 
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Pyritie

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-30 Billion a year for reparations to African Americans
I've seen this point a few times now. As a non-american, what exactly does this mean?
Does it mean using this money to break down the stuff I hear about that keeps them stuck in poverty or incarceration?
Or is this literally just giving money to people whose distant ancestors had bad shit happen to them?

A lot of the US still feels like race is still a huge factor in your culture and interpersonal relationships. In europe, for comparison, it's mostly nationalism/classism.
 

Chou Toshio

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I've seen this point a few times now. As a non-american, what exactly does this mean?
Does it mean using this money to break down the stuff I hear about that keeps them stuck in poverty or incarceration?
Or is this literally just giving money to people whose distant ancestors had bad shit happen to them?

A lot of the US still feels like race is still a huge factor in your culture and interpersonal relationships. In europe, for comparison, it's mostly nationalism/classism.
I think the general consensus is that the need for reparations is a multi-faceted issue that thus requires an extensive study and comprehensive recommendation. The flagship bill right now is HR-40:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/40/cosponsors
Most of the Democratic field have said they support the bill. Tulsi Gabbard is a cosponsor

As for the specific case of Mike Gravel, here is his policy (though keep in mind, while I assume the candidate has reviewed the published policies, it seems many of the innovative ones were Google crowd sourced xD
  • Create a National Commission on Reparations, to assess claims from descendants of those affected by discriminatory government policies, including slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, Native American treaty violations, and segregation in federal employment.
  • Establish a National Reparations Trust Fund (NRTF), funded by an infusion of $30 billion per year from government coffers. The NRTF would be managed in a way akin to a sovereign wealth fund or the Social Security Trust Fund. Each year, 20 percent of the fund would be paid out; 25 percent of this money would go toward programs to benefit historically black colleges and universities, Native American communities, and historical monuments honoring historically disadvantaged groups, and education in low-income communities hurt by policies like redlining or trends like white flight. The other 75 percent would be paid out directly to those on the list of disadvantaged groups. Thus if the NRTF had $280 billion one year, $56 billion would be paid out. $14 billion would go toward programs, and $42 billion would go toward direct payments. Assuming that 50 million were recipients, this would mean a payment of $840 per person. Compounded per year, this would mean tens of thousands of dollars over a person’s lifetime.
 
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I've seen this point a few times now. As a non-american, what exactly does this mean?
Does it mean using this money to break down the stuff I hear about that keeps them stuck in poverty or incarceration?
Or is this literally just giving money to people whose distant ancestors had bad shit happen to them?
It's just a buzzword.
 

Myzozoa

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reparations is not anymore a buzzword than any other policy, as chou already said, the entire field is willing to get behind a commission to study it, who will take it further is unclear and why it's so easy to get a group of dems, mostly whove hardly done anything progressive in their careers, to pay lip service to studying reparations (no doubt seen by some, even among the candidates, as a way of 'wrangling in those difficult minority voters') is an unanswered question.

the idea that it is 'literally giving money to people whose distant ancestors has bad shit happen to them' is silly , when that 'distant ancestor' is their currently living grandmother.

further, other left policies relating to free/subsidized housing, preschool, child care, college education, elder care would all substantially disproportionately benefit American poc, however these would all need to be legislated and then administered through the framework of the American gov, so having a separate policy of reparations consisting of direct cash payments from the federal gov is also beneficial, if only just as likely to fail in legislation as any other policy. Really, it doesn't go far enough, as even if the payments were $800/month instead of per year, that wouldn't bring the median household incomes of white vs black families much closer to parity if you look at the numbers...

btw, one of the first ppl to propose reparations was Abraham Lincoln:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty_acres_and_a_mule
 
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Chou Toshio

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Tulsi Gabbard made the Debates!

Gravelanche is starting late, but already at 13k donors in a week of campaigning. Let's do this! #gravelanche
 
Ok it's been awhile, but can we admire how fucking stupid and hilarious Bernie's defense of being wealthy was? It was pointless to address this bullshit criticism in the first place, but this is a blessed response.

“I wrote a bestselling book. If you write a bestselling book, you can be a millionaire too.”

I love this election.
Is there really nothing better to talk about than completely unfounded claims regarding things that don't matter at all? Jfc. At least, "Hillary probably won the popular vote because 2 million illegal immigrants voted for her," was about votes. This is literally nothing.
Bro what are you talking about about lol. It say's it right in the piece, Bernie isn't apologizing or defending anything, he's explaining how he got there. I get you don't like Bernie, and that's fine but quoting a hit piece and calling him out for literally nothing is ridiculous, especially when you yourself have gone out of your way to call others out for things that "don't matter" like the donor situation.

With that being said I don't agree that it was pointless addressing this 'bullshit criticism" because without a doubt those vehemently against him would have drawn their own conclusions about him being a millionaire and come up with their own conspiracy theories to spread. In the article you posted, the comments are already a cesspool of misinformation and attacks. Don't get me wrong this won't stop those truly against Bernie, but at least the information is out there for all those that actually do their research and that's all that matters. Aside from not saying anything and avoid explaining, I don't know how you could have wanted him to handle this differently? Bernie nipped this in the bud, with just a clean and simple comment, so now we and move on to more pressing matters.
 

MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
I'm not sure why you quoted my other comment. It's not unfounded, considering he said it. And it definitely matters when a candidate running almost entirely on inequality gets rich off a book deal then says, "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps and write a book!" I'm sorry if you disagree, but I have trouble believing you actually think this is less relevant than Chou Toshio's completely baseless theories about whether Beto manipulated his donor count.

Bernie nipped this in the bud, with just a clean and simple comment.
Nipped what in the bud? The comment is the issue, so I don't know what problem you think it solved. I feel like the 2 sentences I wrote went straight over your head, because I'm not even sure what you're trying to respond to right now.

quoting a hit piece and calling him out for literally nothing is ridiculous
The only thing I quoted was Bernie's own statement. Literally. So again, I'm not sure which comment you read.
 
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Chou Toshio

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Socialist Michael Brooks explains the patented Sanders path to joining Socialist Oligarchy.
Step 1: run to be the socialist mayor of a small town where you can make parks, promote folk music, and hold some gay parades even though everyone around you hates the gays. Don’t worry— it might take 30-40 years and a revolution but your millions are coming.

 
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my ancestors got thrown in gas chambers wheres our 30 billion.... my grandparents struggled to find jobs because of their religion..

seems like a huge waste of money. I hope a bill like this doesnt actually go through unless its for all communities that have faced ‘significant’ in apostrophes because its subjective, systemic oppression.

On a separate note, LETS GO MAYOR PETE.

oh my god he hits the feelings and hes so smart. maybe not the most qualified politically but you can tell like bernie (but not a socialist grandpa) he means what he says.

We need a young president who understands our generation.
 

Myzozoa

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amazing , i hadn't thought of asking the US gov for reparations for something they had little to do w

not even gonna fall into responding to your misinformed oppression olympics baits, but this is a first year philosophy major's way of dismissing something that exists in the realm of mainstream politics: 'it's subjective'

well done, a dozen cookies for this one
 

THE_IRON_...KENYAN?

Banned deucer.
Reparations are probably the only way the Democrats lose in 2020 besides nominating anyone besides Bernie or Mayor Pete

Like you could not think of something dumber to support right now when beating Trump is a crucial task for the Dems

Also the whole reparations thing is pretty arbitrary. Why start with blacks? Why not all the people who are a victim of US foreign policy first? Theres so many people weve just continually fucked over all across the globe that if we were ever gonna do some sort of payment based on past victimhood surely we would give it to the people who are stuck in poor or obliterated or both countries. Wouldnt you much rather see money go to those people first than the relatively well off blacks?

And you might respond: Well who says we cant do both? And I would say to that, no, you absolutely do not have the political capital or money to pull off both. You are probably gonna have to choose. Most definitely you will, at most, and maybe even juuuuuust barely, get one and only one large, guilt based payment out of the American people to another group of American people or people in general. With that said, if you are gonna do a payment, give it to the people who need it most. And it aint the blacks, sorry
 
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Myzozoa

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anti-black racism and the history of slavery is the foundation of racism in America, with America's imperialist period taking off after slavery/internal colonialism could no longer be relied upon as the basis for a competitive economy. This legacy of anti-black racism is complicated and continues to this day, and discussions of reparations may be slightly reductive if taken only as payments to black family units or individuals descended from American slaves. As I have previously said, addressing systemic factors (such as the disparity in property ownership, education, and wages) through universal programs would be much more substantial. I doubt I can convince you of any part of this, least of all if you persist in the assumption that we don't have the money to pull off multiple social programs. Cuts to military spending would lessen the continued 'fucking of ppl across the globe' as you put it, while paying for these programs, as well as various "guilt-induced" payments to devastated communities 'across the globe', and with plenty of money to spare afterwards.

So it may seem like talking about reparations for slavery ignores a bunch of other situations, but that is essentially what about-ism, as the central assumption of your post (that we can't pay for all this stuff because where will get the money from, when the money is there to be taken away from war spending) reveals.
 
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Chou Toshio

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Reparations are probably the only way the Democrats lose in 2020 besides nominating anyone besides Bernie or Mayor Pete

Like you could not think of something dumber to support right now when beating Trump is a crucial task for the Dems

Also the whole reparations thing is pretty arbitrary. Why start with blacks? Why not all the people who are a victim of US foreign policy first? Theres so many people weve just continually fucked over all across the globe that if we were ever gonna do some sort of payment based on past victimhood surely we would give it to the people who are stuck in poor or obliterated or both countries. Wouldnt you much rather see money go to those people first than the relatively well off blacks?

And you might respond: Well who says we cant do both? And I would say to that, no, you absolutely do not have the political capital or money to pull off both. You are probably gonna have to choose. Most definitely you will, at most, and maybe even juuuuuust barely, get one and only one large, guilt based payment out of the American people to another group of American people or people in general. With that said, if you are gonna do a payment, give it to the people who need it most. And it aint the blacks, sorry
I wouldn't say that Democrats are stupid to address reparations; I would say that they have an extremely difficult political task ahead of them. In order to put together a winning strategy, the progressives must use the promise of ending austerity in order to overcome tribalism and unite the working class as a voting block. There is no victory without elevating a class narrative that can unite the people-- and that does start with the voters. They have an opportunity because everyone has been so screwed by the elite, that grievances are lining up; but they are not perfectly aligned, and so there will be a lot of hard work for progressives ahead in speaking to the people.

The problem is that the people ARE under austerity and so there IS elevated tribalism on all sides. Not only is there elevated tribalism, but there are also legitimate grievances that need to be spoken to.

The democrats lost to Trump because the democrats turned their backs on their New Deal history, and in doing so betrayed the unions and working white folks of the country-- selling their towns and their bodies to big pharma and their other donor industries. The democrats need to promise to return to the FDR/Truman tradition if they are to redeem the moral debts of those betrayals.

On the other hand, it would be insane to expect African Americans to not rise up and point out that the gains from the original New Deal very much disproportionately favored white Americans, and that past policy did in many ways rob them of the needed tools to partake in the more meritocratic and more labor-friendly era that illustrated the American Dream. It would be completely unreasonable to expect them to hold their tongues, and it is impossible to build the coalition without speaking to their grievances. There's a reason that the second "A" in MAGA is so divisive... but that's no reason not to aim for Making America Great. [Full stop]

On a side note, as a Japanese American progressive it is extremely mind-warping to imagine FDR as the president of internment camps and Reagan as the president of Japanese reparations. But we can, and will do better than FDR. FDR was a man of the elites who did good works because he was pressured to by socialists-- Bernie is himself the real deal.

At the end of the day, the only way to overcome these tribal divides is to give both the universal call to brotherhood, but also lean into listening to each set of brothers and sisters. I don't think the progressives can win unless they are willing to talk about middle aged white men having the highest rate of suicide, or what's happening with the opioid crisis and de-industrialized towns of Trump country-- be willing to acknowledge that liberal elite America has wrongfully looked down with condescension for working whites. I also don't think they can win unless they speak to the history of black America and the call for reparations-- to speak to how our policies helped in making it harder for black families to buy homes, get educations, or even form families; the very basic building blocks to upward mobility.

They have to listen to the voices of their constituents, but also have to help their constituents listen better to each other as well. No easy task, but I think while in some ways the realities of the moment does make that harder, in other ways it makes it more possible than ever before.
 
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Chou Toshio

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One thing Bernie has got to do is STOP calling his folksong album the worst in all history, and start playing tracks from it at every damn rally. EVERY DAMN RALLY. It is flames, and I don't think any red-blooded American can listen to it without crying; it's that good.

Oh Freedom
We Shall Overcome

<-He needs to let Black America hear his raw emotion for the civil rights movement recorded from back then

The Banks of Marble
Where Have All the Flowers Gone

If he plays these song in Trump country, all that was blue will be blue again.

This Land Is Your Land
This country, is our country-- and no one can stop us from walking that Freedom Highway.
 
amazing , i hadn't thought of asking the US gov for reparations for something they had little to do w

not even gonna fall into responding to your misinformed oppression olympics baits, but this is a first year philosophy major's way of dismissing something that exists in the realm of mainstream politics: 'it's subjective'

well done, a dozen cookies for this one
the us gov couldve prevented the apparent discrimination against Jews in this country.

just because it was worse in Germany didn’t mean antisemitism wasnt and still is a worldwide issue.

my grandfather went to grade school in massachusetts, where the irish kids used to pick on the jewish kids. as he grew up and through college he couldn’t find work because he was jewish, so much so he went from working for his father to starting his own company.

“Little to do with” thats very ignorant. Antisemitism is a worldwide epidemic.
 

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