NOC 2d3 Mafia - Game Over, Town Win! (and postgame is up)

Ok honestly nuxl is looking more scummy than caffeine for me just on today alone. Nuxl seems to be trying to point out a problem with every single post caffeine makes which is kinda too far for me. Everything someone says can't be inheritly scummy. (I know nuxl didn't outright say all caffeines post are outright scummy but he quoted them all and pointed flaws in everything).
Are both Nuxl and Caffeine scum reads for you or is nuxl a scum read while caffeine is a neutral read?
 

CaffeineBoost

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Wait a minute... scum killed Heal? After the VT claim? Huh...
This would probably imply that scum had a reason to think Heal was actually a power role. I'm gonna go ahead and say that Texas is town for now. Nuxl falls under a similar category but he's also showing signs of scum which make me less inclined to file them under town.

Gonna have a little read through everything and see if I can get anything.
 
Wait a minute... scum killed Heal? After the VT claim? Huh...
This would probably imply that scum had a reason to think Heal was actually a power role. I'm gonna go ahead and say that Texas is town for now. Nuxl falls under a similar category but he's also showing signs of scum which make me less inclined to file them under town.

Gonna have a little read through everything and see if I can get anything.
hey looks like you're going to have some more time to devote to this game

:)

(i'm conftown now so probably this will be my only post of the day before i vote scum before deadline, have fun)
 

Nuxl

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Ok honestly nuxl is looking more scummy than caffeine for me just on today alone. Nuxl seems to be trying to point out a problem with every single post caffeine makes which is kinda too far for me. Everything someone says can't be inheritly scummy. (I know nuxl didn't outright say all caffeines post are outright scummy but he quoted them all and pointed flaws in everything).
you're calling me out for this when texas did a PbP on SA, came to the conclusion that SA is a strong scumread, and then you sheeped him, hammering at the end of the day?

let's talk about this a little bit then

what posts from caffeine d1 do you think are inherently towny/NAI on their own? do you disagree with my post on certain areas? and/or do you disagree with the idea of it?

i will admit that on a second look back some of them could be NAI and i could be wrong, it's why i brought it up, to talk to them and see what the rest of town thinks. i will also admit that PbP and meta probably are factors that can be heavily skewed by perception bias(aka i might be trying to see what i want to see because of my scumread on caff). i'm still trying to grasp a lot of factors here and learn the ropes to be a useful component to town.

but christ; low activity, lack of scumhunting/townhunting, lurking, posting in other games while being an almost absent factor in this one, ingenuine tone, playing devoid from previous meta, awkward read progression, etc all of these factors alone may not necessarily be alignment indicative but if a majority of these occur (especially in d1) then i become incredibly concerned.

on d1 i was also a sheep for the most part but i think i really want to create some pressure today to get a better understanding.

gonna ask again, what is your readlist right now? i'm gonna echo IFML's question as well because i think it's a good one.
 

Nuxl

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i think this because otherwise they try to kill conftown/threatening players, which i think the former is which only I and texas were i think universally read at EoD
 

Duskfall98

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you're calling me out for this when texas did a PbP on SA, came to the conclusion that SA is a strong scumread, and then you sheeped him, hammering at the end of the day?

let's talk about this a little bit then

what posts from caffeine d1 do you think are inherently towny/NAI on their own? do you disagree with my post on certain areas? and/or do you disagree with the idea of it?

i will admit that on a second look back some of them could be NAI and i could be wrong, it's why i brought it up, to talk to them and see what the rest of town thinks. i will also admit that PbP and meta probably are factors that can be heavily skewed by perception bias(aka i might be trying to see what i want to see because of my scumread on caff). i'm still trying to grasp a lot of factors here and learn the ropes to be a useful component to town.

but christ; low activity, lack of scumhunting/townhunting, lurking, posting in other games while being an almost absent factor in this one, ingenuine tone, playing devoid from previous meta, awkward read progression, etc all of these factors alone may not necessarily be alignment indicative but if a majority of these occur (especially in d1) then i become incredibly concerned.

on d1 i was also a sheep for the most part but i think i really want to create some pressure today to get a better understanding.

gonna ask again, what is your readlist right now? i'm gonna echo IFML's question as well because i think it's a good one.
1) I was one of the first, if not the first TL mentiom SA coukd be potential scum.

2) I've already spoken on caffeineboost as D1 scum. It's not that I outright disagree completer lynch either everything Judith quoting multiple posts answer saying filler is clutching at straws trying to scum read a guy who always jokes in games.

3) Although low activity is helpful to scum it doesn't mean the inactive person is scum always. Note smogon account. I can attest caffeine has been involved in the Wayne Brady game. It's not like he's completely absent either, he's just not on as much as you. Also Wayne brady is a discord game mostly so it's a lot easier to pop in and out.

Currently my readlist is;
Town lean: Texas/hal
Neutral: caffeine/ifml
Scum lean: nuxl/viper
 

Nuxl

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ok i read this and i think this reads as a post that doesn't feel stiff and has a certain tone behind it so i feel a tiny bit better about this slot, but someone can tell me if this anger/defeatist vibe is alignment indicative, for now i'm not assuming it is.

Multiple people have concluded thoughts about heal on what is essentially fuck all. At that point whether they were right on the "claim feeling genuine" or whatever is down to luck more than the ability to read. Anyone can go into a game and immediately claim VT and it would be a 50/50 shout as to whether they were telling the truth or not.
i think tone matters a lot when it comes to creating reads. it helps determine whether or not something is genuine or not

Same use of language. I admitted I made a joke... you read too much into it. The only reason I can really think of as to why is that you wanted to have a reason to pick me off. I am leaning scum on you now as a result.
no i just think being trolly is anti town and doesnt contribute positively to the game; if you had more contributions/pressure attempts prior to this point it wouldn't irk me as much

My play has been inconsistent in the two previous games I've played in. It should be fairly obvious since you've read those that I am also kinda bad at this. My attitude towards this game in particular has been lacking since I have been focusing on the Wayne Brady game which has been happening at the same time as this amongst other things.
i think i can tie them both to each other more than this game so far tbh. fair point on wayne brady, i'll consider that NAI individually

Didn't Smogon Account make a post after this? I think it was that post which made me change my mind. I thought he was coasting.
yeah, he posted again on the second to last page of d1, of which it felt opportunistic for you to place your vote on him on l-2
could be bad timing?

I can't say I really care how I get read in this particular case.
noted

No defence for being lazy. I shouldn't be lazy.
:blobthumbsup:

Again, been focused on other things to really get into this game. I signed up mainly because Hal asked me to. I can devote some more time to this though so maybe I'll get to the hunting. Probably won't make it though.
:blobthumbsup:

Why are you pointing out who my vote's on? Not entirely sure what point you're making by pointing out I was voting Heal.
mainly because it was a really old vote that didnt change with your reads, implying that you feel at the time heal is the most scummy; i'll admit this might be a stretch

It was pretty shady action. I don't get why he'd do that. I was mainly playing it for laughs though which may be why you're not a fan of it.
i mainly bring this up because it's useful to use a vote to create pressure(which i still dont feel like you've tried to do d1), but this could be playstyle differences
saying something like the latter undermines the purpose of my argument fwiw

Or perhaps I was looking to place a change in vote but didn't want to risk hammering? Who knows.
could be, although you don't change your vote here anyway after the VC is posted, chalk this up to bad timing?

"Please note that anything this particular user says which may seem useful is in fact an attempt to gain towncred. Ignore him at all costs. Thank you."
yeah valid point, my b on this one

A post from Smog acc made me change my vote iirc. He listed reads with no reasons whatsoever and then voted in a way which seemed shady. I thought it was scummy and as a result I voted for him.
He hadn't posted for virtually the entire game. That is why I called him out and not others.
noted; i could see an opportunistic vote coming in to play here though. i could kinda say the same thing what you said about your play d1 though

My play (or lack thereof) hasn't been reliant on anything. I've been focusing on other things. It's fairly obvious right now that I've played (or indeed not played) myself into a corner and I quite fucking frankly should be lynched this cycle. Idk how I'm supposed to convince you I'm town because I have been playing like shit and "I'm town" is hardly enough to convince anybody. Hell even the defeatist attitude I have right now makes me look scummy.
idk how to feel about this paragraph, nobody's turboing you right now so i don't think it's right to give up so easily rn and nobody's sheeping me either

again i still do heavily feel like your d1 performance felt very stiff and coasty in comparison to d1 caff in previous games; and you did pop up occasionally but didnt make anything of your time.

you had multiple opportunities to create pressure/scumhunt/townhunt which is why i comment about filler portions, because you posted on certain interactions but never followed up with literally anything that gives you a bigger mindset which i'd argue isn't a productive use of ur time (outside of EoD IFML read question(and ig the question directed to me about experience but i don't see your reasoning in that one))

i also don't think this stuff is exclusive to you, i think you need more pressure on your positioning in this game though because your d1 performance was iffy

glad to see you'll be more active this phase though, looking forward to your posts

If you'd like to quiz me, I'll answer. Somebody kickstart me please.
i'd ask for your readlist and your townbloc, but i assume you're posting this already tomorrow

are you suspecting me mainly because of my push on you btw?
1) I was one of the first, if not the first TL mentiom SA coukd be potential scum.
granted you also suggested that you wanted to vote viper/caffeine; i don't think this particularly indicates much given you followed and hammered the wagon while misreading SA's post. maybe your hammer was also opportunistic?

2) I've already spoken on caffeineboost as D1 scum. It's not that I outright disagree completer lynch either everything Judith quoting multiple posts answer saying filler is clutching at straws trying to scum read a guy who always jokes in games.
Caffeine: Ok, I am aware his joking about scum is a joke. But the fact he's done it multiple times is slightly suspicious to me. I dunno, just seems like slightly guilty behaviour that he keeps emphasising it. It is not enough to actually bus him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was scum.
i am SRing him based on his presence and how he uses his time when he makes posts on the first day just as I was comfortable with the SA wagon because of his d1 presence not because i'm "grasping at straws" (admittedly yes some of the above can be NAI so i apologize for that)

i don't understand your first part before the typo, can you elaborate?

the filler concern is answered above

3) Although low activity is helpful to scum it doesn't mean the inactive person is scum always. Note smogon account. I can attest caffeine has been involved in the Wayne Brady game. It's not like he's completely absent either, he's just not on as much as you. Also Wayne brady is a discord game mostly so it's a lot easier to pop in and out.
don't twist what i'm saying
a lot of things are not AI by themselves, i agree
yes low activity is not really AI. yes prioritizing another game is not necessarily AI. yes coasting is not necessarily AI. etc

i'm just saying in combination this slows the game at which point if you think if this is intentional to inhibit discussion

again, noted about the wayne brady thing, and i understand the time concern, but i really think it's how you spend your time with the posts you make

i don't think this chainsaw defense is cool either though

Currently my readlist is;
Town lean: Texas/hal
Neutral: caffeine/ifml
Scum lean: nuxl/viper
what made caffeine less scummy for you?
 

Nuxl

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going to sleep soon btw, feel free to ask any questions/point anything out and lemme know if i'm wrong on some of this
 

Duskfall98

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I was never super hard scum for caffeine. The fact his posts have gotten a lot better as he was eliminated from Wayne Brady goes a lot in his favour now. I'll see how he goes because it's early yet. Also from your interactions with him you appear more scummy which makes him less scummy in my perspective.
 

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